Zuck's AI Safety Pitch, Canada Turns to Europe, and Kash Patel on Bestiality

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The future of law is "agentic", not just tools that assist, but AI agents that navigate complex matters. That's why Harvey created agents that can do the work from end to end. They build a plan, pull from the secure data sources, run sub-agents in parallel and draft work product ready for your review. So you can delegate work and own the judgment. Trusted by more than 60% of the AM, law, 100, and leading Fortune 500 legal teams, Harvey is an AI operating system designed specifically for legal work. Harvey, AI, tailored for law. Learn more at Harvey.AI. Actually, Cara objectifies Carney all the time, and I'm really uncomfortable with it. She's constantly referencing his locks. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Fox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. I'm Scott Galloway. Hey, Scott. I just flew in from California. Oh, we really started idea before. Oh, here we are. But listen, I have a lot to tell you about things I've been doing this week. But we have a big announcement breaking late yesterday. We are going on tour. Yes, we are super excited back in Canada. We've added Denver, which I'm excited about. Well, let me, let me see, we're kicking off November 2nd in New York City. And then we hit Toronto, Minneapolis, LA, San Francisco, and Denver. And you can head to pivottor.com for tickets. We do sell out pretty quickly, so please get there, and we want all our fans there. And if you're not following us on social media, you're not going to get all the latest announcement and our handles are in the show notes. But let me tell you something. It's going to be good. We're going to have so many, so many amazing secret guests. I got to give it to you, Cara, you give good event. You're very good at those. Is there anyone you absolutely want in any of these cities to want to listen to me? Sydney Swainy. Sydney Swainy. I can try. I know. I know her boyfriend. Actually, as a palette cleanser, what do you think of all this controversy? I have this on the screen. Oh, you know, I don't care. It's stupid. I don't think it's a good ad. Okay. I just don't think it's a good ad. I think it's a stupid, perient ad. And it's not very clever. Like, if you go back and watch the Brook Shields ads, which were very controversial, they're very funny that the dialogue is super funny. This is just, it's like boobs, also boobs and some boobs. And I get why guys like it. What do you think? You like boobs? I think it might taste a little bit more comfortable. Yeah. All right. I'm sorry. I think all the notion that it's ruining women's sports and the outrage, I think it's ridiculous. And I think that if she were a black gay progressive, it would be my body, my choice. Sex is work. Okay. I think it's a lot of the same. We've got to get going because rivalry is heating up between the US and Canada this morning, as you know, our Canadian friends. But speaking of heated rivalries, get that to Canada heated rivalries. We are bringing in Scott's other work wife to help us break it down. Please welcome the co-host of Raging Moderates Jessica Tarlov. Her new book is out there. Now it's called, I disagree winning arguments without losing friends. Jess, welcome. Welcome to our home. That's what this feels like. Like I got invited to the big house. The big house. Yeah. The one on top of the hill. We were just arguing. The Mean Girls table at the high school cafeteria. Oh, our mom and dad having a fight. We were. He's like going on about the great attributes of Sydney Swings. Sydney Swings chest. Yes, exactly. You would know more about the two of you, what's attractive and breasts than I do, but they do look great. They do. They're fantastic. That's a nice fact. Carol was making the point that if she was smarter, she'd focus on her acting capabilities. I think you got to do it. Oh, wow. Oh, she's going for the dick. She's trying to get us to disagree. And, and then I'll fix it. Fix it. Or I'll just leave. I'll leave you in a sec. Yes. So you think she should do both. Show off her rack, like Dolly Barton did, and also be talented. Is that correct? Both of those things. She's doing both of those things. She's having a moment across different verticals, which is how you succeed, you see what I did there. But also, you know, there's a finite amount of time when you look like that. Oh, you can keep that going for a while. You know what, I don't even, I just love a woman who leans into her aging. I think it's really, I love that confidence. She's can't wait to look at 60-year-old breasts. Yeah. This is an uncomfortable conversation for me because I find that Cara, I really don't see age when it comes to women and I don't see looks. I know, I'm going to show you my boobs in a second, and then it's all going to end very quickly. Of course, it's crazy. They're nice. Do I have to show my boobs? Yes. Everyone has to. Okay. Well, you know my, you know my question when I meet a feminist. I ask them if they'd still be a feminist if they had bigger tits. Oh god. Is that wrong? Is that wrong? Yeah. Is that wrong? Yes, it is. Yes, we disagree. That's right. We disagree. I'm going to go into a comment. It's happening. I know. Listen, I want to talk about your, let's focus on Jess. Let's focus on Jess. She's here. I just had her on the show for an hour to talk about the book. But we're going to get into some actual practical aspects of your book, which is about disagreeing and you have to like endure Jesse Waters. So I feel for you, honey. Kind of thing. So let's get into it. Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carnies is a good example. Address the EU parliament a little while ago saying Europe and Canada are stronger together. The speech comes a day after European Commission President Ursula Fondre Léon proposed that Canada become the first associate member. I'm not sure it's like a junior member or whatever. Let's us a car and explain his vision of this partnership. We do not seek power to dominate others. On the contrary, we are pursuing resilience. So no one, no one can control our open markets, impair our sovereignty, threaten our territorial integrity or undermine our freedoms, our democracies, our rule of law. He was clear about what this alliance is not about. Let's listen. I also want to be precise about what I am not proposing. I'm not proposing a third block in order to become a great power rival only with better manners. Okay, Trump is not happy about this. Even before Carnie's speech, he said Canada becoming an associate member of the EU could be a hostile act. And he threatened to punish Europe with eugested tariffs. Just this is a real like what any advice on Trump losing friends because he loses a lot of there's a lot of friends he's lost. Some people are beyond hope, which is part of the book that you are not forced to have friendships that you don't want to. But what Mark Carnie was doing and as I was listening to the speech this morning before I hopped on here, I was thinking this man is parenting, right? He's doing the same thing that we would do with any of our kids and explaining in very clear terms. We do not seek to dominate others. Do not push someone on the playground. It is like a very easy rule to teach. But what he did do because this is an arc, right? A journey that Mark Carnie has been on. And he did a lot of the things that we talked about are in I disagree. He started with the soft start originally. And he said like, we're pals. We have a lot, it's important. What is it? 800 billion and trade. Second biggest partner. We want to make this work. We share this border. We share our values. Then he went to let's talk in averages and not anecdotes. Let's get to the brass tax of this isn't about my feelings. This is a win-win for everybody. And then when the toddler couldn't deal with reality, he dropped the bomb. And he said, here I am. Let me into the EU. And let's figure out a bright future together. So he didn't get an advanced copy of the book. But obviously he saw what is in it. Is he cutting off? You don't have to remain friends with everyone. Or is he leaving an opening? I don't think you can have worked that off the US. I mean, that's just not feasible. And you share Trump. He can cut off Trump. Yeah. Well, you could also make a plan for the next two years and change. And then pray that someone's saying, and that someone's saying doesn't necessarily have to be a Democrat. I don't think if Marco Rubio was in charge, that he would be going about it this way or even a JD Vance. So I think that he wants to send a strong message, obviously. He has tried a lot of different ways to be able to have this conversation, to make it clear it's worth your while and keep the relationship. And now he's got to do what's best for Canadians. And what his people are telling him that they want. They're ready to take the pain in order to have their sovereignty and their dignity. Yeah. Scott, what do you think? What would you do if you were besides talk about Sydney Swini's boobs? But go ahead. Oh, no, I was going to say Scott's probably going to say he's also very attractive, which he is. It's a different look than Sydney Swini. Actually, Kara objectifies Carney all the time. And I'm really uncomfortable with it. She's constantly referencing his looks. Anyways, it's very upsetting. So, look, America being indignant here, and it's calling an active hostility is like, you know, someone is in an abusive relationship and then the husband finds out what do you know she's down-loaned, hidden. I mean, this just can't be that surprising. We used to be the head of the cool table in the cafeteria, and we walked in and now it's just us at the cool table. This is, of course, they're looking for new partners. Of course, they are. They'd be irresponsible. Just when you're talking about this, what are the, sort of, right now? I think a lot of people are wanting to get along again, you know. And maybe forgive people. I was just noting to Scott Karl Roeb, said he's going to vote Democrat. Yeah. There's a lot of pushback from publicans there, but the thing the guy said was heinous, right? And then you have Mike Johnson defending a guy who called women "combuckets," like, and you're like, what is happening here? Yeah, I know, but we're the offensive ones. I love that. I'm really prepared to be lectured by the party of "combuckets." Yeah, right. So, whatever it is, so-and-so sad that I'm sure I'm going to see a clip of later. Yeah, I think the overarching message that's important for people to keep in mind is that life is long. And people change and they evolve. And if you are careful about when you talk and when you listen, you can get somewhere in most cases. Again, not forcing anyone to do anything that they don't want to. But we're also desperate to be acknowledged. And for people to say, like, I'm actually interested in what you've got to say. And then by doing that, you're also better prepared to respond to it. The cutting each other off. And yes, I get interrupted all the time, which I see as a sign of weakness. And I write about that. That if you're getting interrupted, you're actually winning. If they're criticizing you on style, you're winning on substance. And you can take internal gratification from that. And people who are watching this go on, know it as well. But the listening, it matters so much. And that's across the political spectrum that people are really hungry for it. Well, just going with Jess at about good data, 870 billion is sold in or is purchased in from Canada. And we don't treat them like our best customer. And I got to think that if you're a Norwegian company that's selling motorcycle parts or ATV parts, you're going to now quickly on the phone with every Canadian manufacturer of ATVs, including Bombardier. And say, have you considered doing business with us? This business is this business is up for grabs. American companies have never had a greater assault on their inventory and their new business from the president who has made them very vulnerable to switching. So is it just a president thing that's just, you know, the way he disagrees, which is winner. It's always win. Like he said, yeah, if we win an AI, we win. That's his new saying. He goes, I coined it. I'm like, it's really stupid. But it's always a sort of dominant thing. And which is not good when you're trying to disagree, correct, like a constant. But disagreement is not turned into dominance or dunking. And of course, there's an online aspect to it and the way you dunk. And some things are super fucking funny. They just are. There's a whole bunch of Mitch McConnell's, you know, I thought he was dead and it's worse kind of thing. But can we get back to disagreeing in a better way? Because now it's like a real, it's sort of like scorched earth at this point. You know, I think you do do a great job on, on the five, although it's very disconcerting that they just, they don't seem to listen at all. Like they never let. movement in there, or maybe they're just performative. - There have been signs of movement. I keep a list on my wall, I'm just kidding, but I, but you're also, you're doing it for the people that you're talking to, but also who else might be listening and in this algorithmically dominant universe, you know, your audience can be any number of places. Remember when Mom Donnie came on with Martha McCallum before the election? And he had points that he wanted to make to distinct groups. He spoke directly into the camera, Andrew Cuomo. You speak to the voters, you speak to the president. You know, understanding who you're tailoring the message for and making sure that it's getting to those places is as important as the content of what it is that you're saying. And I did think on the AI front in Trump saying, you know, you just need the most intelligent president in the world, which you have here. I thought it was interesting that Carney included this AI partnership in his offering to the EU. It doesn't even really count as that, because the EU has said we want you for whatever the special relationship is going to be. And that felt like a real shot across our bow as well, since we're having this debate about, you know, do you regulate, do not? And if they're going to shift towards the EU model or what kind of progress they might create together without us. But what's the fault? Is it Trump? Or is it that the online has turned us into sort of these dunqueness? Well, Trump is a fundamental problem. But he's only exposed things that were already in people. Right? It was just waiting to be pulled out of them. And from working in conservative media, and we've talked about this, before I was not aware of how deep grievance culture from the Obama years was, and not just in the racist way. It's not that, you know, the economic issues, cultural issues, and you've seen that huge pendulum swing back, where we've gotten so much more fiscally liberal and culturally conservative on a comparative basis to where I thought we were. So Trump is a symptom of it, obviously, and he's a vehicle for a lot of this. And has reframed the way that we do politics. But it doesn't mean it can't be mastered by other people. And that-- Mastered in a good way, not in this country. In a good way, yeah. To understand how you wield-- I mean, we have examples of people who use the internet and their followings in communities for good, even if you don't love their politics. You look at an AOC, for instance, and you think, OK, I understand where this could go in a positive direction. But I don't think people are going to-- there will be no one who disagrees, like Trump. Again, it is a case study of one who disagree and doesn't want to listen, essentially. Is there any way-- He's broke-- What would you advise him? I just think he's broken. It doesn't matter. I mean, he seems pretty broken to me. Well, he's definitely getting advised the right things. It's not as if Republicans on the ground don't know what's going on. They're pleading for money. They're pleading for the right kind of support. They're saying, they're stripping him off their websites. I mean, MAGA Inc. the big pack can't even send out money under the name MAGA Inc. They have to put it out in other vehicles because the brand is so toxic. You have Karl Rove, like you said, voting for a Democrat. Like, things have changed. So if you're JD Vance, who probably can-- Mario, Marco Rubio, what do you do if you start to bring everyone together again? You don't keep this up because neither of them are capable of keeping up the anger. I don't think they're-- I don't think they're actually like that. I don't think they're comfortable as Trump is in that space. I think Vance would be fine with it if he could pull it off. I don't think he's built like that. He's too-- I don't want to just say weak. But he's so malleable, fungible as a human. So I don't think he has the backbone for it. And I don't think Marco Rubio has the interest. I think he will convert back to something looking more like the 2016 version with some America first updates. But I think that they will know, especially if a strong message is sent in the midterms, that the party-- the Republican party cannot survive 2028, even with the redistricting and the census, if they try America first 2.0. The anger, just not just not agreeing. Well, anger and no deliverables. That's what people-- they said in 2024. Actually, don't care that this guy is terrible. Just give me money in my pocket. And now that there's no money in your pocket, they're certainly not going to accept this kind of leadership. All right, Scott, last question. Well, for the first time in probably 20 years, I watched a full Fox program because I wanted to watch the five. And what I found is that the clips are more antagonistic than the general vibe. And what I would say is I think they're less rude than a lot of the clips would indicate to you. I don't want you to comment on it. But one, you bring data to-- I get the sense. The audience wants to hear what you have to say. In three, I generally get the sense that your four colleagues really like you and respect you enough that they don't want to show you a certain level of disrespect. Not my question. Talk about bringing this to your personal life. When you examine this topic, how does it change the way you, quote unquote, argue, are resolved disputes with your husband or your family? Yeah, and any advice for Scott and I? Well, Roger Federer should lean into his acting. Those are his real assets, Kara. I'm sorry. Go ahead. He's an anti-woke, the sick virtual signal. So red pill. No red pill. It's so true. Go ahead. Yeah. This is so fun being at the grown-up house. Yes, she doesn't touch me anymore. Oh my god. Answer each lovely question. Yeah. How has it affected how I talk or disagree in my regular life? I think that I am more zen and calm generally from having this experience. So the usual reaction is, what pills do you take? What is your meditation routine? And I actually feel genuinely at peace in that conflict. I don't know what I have done to make my inside so steely to it. But I am clocking aspects of the interactions as these wins as we go along. And I think that that has really helped me in talking to, like the mom, group chat, dealing with my husband, my mom, sister, everyone around you. And there's so much more that can happen as an internal dialogue rather than an external one. And that was something that I really wanted to emphasize. And I disagree that you can do a lot of this work yourself. And everyone will be better off. We just feel this compulsion to fill space constantly. I don't think, Jess, I don't think you and I have ever had an argument. That's you saved it from me. Yeah, you will. I'm serious. I don't know what that's all about. Thank God I'm here. Thank God I'm here. Thank God. That's what everybody says. That's what they do. They do. Yes, thank God for a whole host of reasons. But no, I don't think that we, I don't even know what we would argue about, but I choose not to get upset that you ignore all of my text messages based on that. There we go. It's the beginning, it's the beginning of the year. Oh, is that how it started with you? You were like, can you just like my message? No, I texted angry. No, I texted. I'm really in the middle of the night. Anyway, when he does something kooky. Any, I can't help myself. Anyway, Jess, this is a really great book. She hosts, obviously, Raging Moderate. And her book, I disagree, is out now. I hope you get to the number one on the Times Best Seller. I think it's the kind of book we all will need right now. I really do. Thank you for joining me. And thank you for having me and welcoming the side piece. And those scots, the side piece, I don't know what I want to say. What about the side piece of you, Jess? That is obvious. He has nice boobs. Anyway, thanks for joining us. Hi guys, thank you so much. I hope everyone loves the book. Great, thanks. Well, that was nice. Your other girlfriend, who doesn't think that was-- She is universally loved. She is. She's good at what she does. Anyway, she's great. Everybody buy her book. I disagree. Moving on, interesting story broke about a movie I have seen, Universal, which has worldwide distribution rights outside North America to Alice Gibney's new Elon Musk documentaries reportedly getting cold feet about releasing the film internationally. The studio paid a multi-million dollar sum for the international rights back in 2023. If it walks away now, it could be required to pay the filmmakers. They off the filmmakers, and then they can go and sell it. It's not clear what they're going to do. I know people close to it and they just haven't said anything. And so they're not able to get-- I mean, there's a lot of international interest in this film. People really dislike Elon in Europe, particularly, for example. But-- and people want to see it there. And so it's interesting yet another company could be bending the knee at this late date and worried about it. Elon's called the documentary Hit Piece and Boring. It's not boring, though there's no indication he's actually seen it. It is absolutely not boring. I know a little bit about it. They have to pay Universal a negative pick-up fee on delivery, and they've just been silent. Universal has been silent with the group that owns the documentary. And probably if they walk away, there's other distributors. There's a lot of them in the story that was written. lot of distributors are really interested in it. But it's, it's just interesting to silence and not doing anything because all these, you know, Comcast is facing an issue, the owner of universal spacing issue with again, more on Brendan Carr, around DEI stuff. Um, and they're all sort of continuing to be kind of just, just still nervous about the Trump administration and what it can do. I think the time is limited for them. And they continue to do it, which is, you know, I'm not loving that they're doing this. What do you think? Can I really like Donald Langley? It runs out. I like Brian Roberts, but it's still possibly disappointing, depending on what happens. Well, it's, the issue isn't, isn't whether the Musk documentary is accurate, not accurate. If it's good or bad, the issue is when a media company discovers that distributing journalism about a powerful person carries commercial and political risk. And that's the fear here is that this all creates a chill around journalism and speaking truth to power and power corrupts and absolute power corrupts in the media has always been exceptionally good. I mean, you feel this and I feel this. And when you get to a certain footprint, people start quite frankly looking for reasons to should post you. And quite and some of it is healthy. You know, power should be checked along the way. There should be friction. And the studio finds it in itself or it finds itself in a place now where it's basically got like a, you know, there's nothing it can do. It's a hot potato that will burn no matter what they do. If they, if they drop it, it burns. They're, they're in an, they're in an unwinnable position. If they try to distance themselves from it, they probably lose money and they look weak. And everyone, everyone in the industry will start, you know, just being outraged, right? And if they do give in, if they do bend, if they do bend a knee, then they just absolutely, or if they move forward with it, they go cross hair. There is real temptation right now to the following strategy. Keep a low profile, say the fuck out of his way. Until he's gone. He's 24. Yeah. There's 24 months. He may be, very hindered after the elections, but God, I feel it. And I don't, you know, the stuff I've pitched around big tech, the one thing in big tech. And I don't think this was politically motivated, but the original scripted series around big tech I was working on got shut down. And I don't think it was, I don't think it was politically motivated, but we had so many talents that people involved, the production house immediately was like, this will be, we had multiple bitters when we first bitched it now. People are like, you know what, boss, it might be amazing. Let's talk about it again. Right now, just not worth that. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. That's it. It's definitely a chill. It's interesting, because there are a lot of very anti tech movies about to come out. Like there's this, I was interviewing Aaron Sorken last night in a private event of X Facebook people in Mountain Dew, right near Metta actually, on the social reckoning, there's, you know, must documentary, there's artificial, there's like a lot of, you know, and on television, like the audacity, there's a lot of, you know, tech as villains out there. It's not like it's not out there. But I think it's, I think in this case, it's a nonfiction, and it's a very highly litigious person. I don't know. I just, I would just say, oh, fuck it. We made it. We paid for it. I think at the time they got it, he wasn't so musk, he wasn't so Trump, right? This, this has gone on this movie for many years. Well, that's the thing. It's not being anti tech that's dangerous. It's being anti Trump and musk is considered very closely affiliated with musk, with Trump right now. Yeah. And of course, again, Brendan Kars, like again, making noise about, you know, he's even going after possibly going after wrote the Roku deal, because this guy is, this guy is really quite like a ridiculous, it's going after the Roku deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, they're looking at it. They're looking at it like they're the Justice Department might, and I'm not sure he can. But there's all, because there's a device in the FCC might, it's like, he's, I think they're probably mad at that Murdoch's being much tougher on Trump recently. They're, you know, it's sort of messages. I do think they'll be a growing resistance to Trump. You sort of are starting to see little bits and pieces of pushback. But we're going to take a quick break and we come back, Mark Zuckerberg steps into the great AI safety debate. Support for the show comes from Quince. Is there something your closet you can't wait to bring back into rotation every year? Maybe it's the jacket you throw on for just about anything, the boots that fit perfectly, or the scarf that instantly makes an outfit feel put together. Those are the reliable pieces you come back to season after season. They're exactly what Quince does best. Quince makes premium essentials for any season using high quality materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and washable silk. The designs are timeless, expertly craft and made to be worn again and again. And all of their items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Plus they work directly with top factories cutting out the middlemen. That way, you're only paying for exceptional quality and not brand markup. I just got Quince sheets of all things and I was surprised. I love them. They were incredibly well-priced. They're so soft. They're well done. I didn't have to wash them. They didn't feel scratchy in any way and they were quite beautiful. I also have this cardigan that I'm ready to wear for the fall when it stops being 90 degrees here in Washington, D.C. And I'm looking forward to buying other things from Quince for the fall. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com/pivot, get free shipping with your order and 365-day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com/pivot. Support for the show comes from CoreWave. AI isn't just a new tool. It encompasses so much more. It's spurring a revolution across all industries and reshaping itself to become a big part of our future together. CoreWave is at the center powering some of the biggest names in AI. As the essential cloud for AI, CoreWave provides an AI platform that combines next-generation infrastructure, intelligent tools, and expert support. It's powering the world's most complex AI workloads faster and more efficiently. From medical research and diagnosis to education, from complex visual effects from movies, to breakthroughs and science and technology. If it's AI, CoreWave is uniquely ready to power with purpose-pilled tech. The big ideas, the wild visions, and what ifs, and why not. CoreWave is working to build what's never been built before. CoreWave is the essential cloud for AI, ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWave powers the world's best AI, go to CoreWave.com/readyforanything. I've got a text! The summer might be almost over, but a new bombshell is entered the villa. Meet the voices of DeepGram Flux TTS. I'm Drew. Loki, casual. I'm Alexis, an upbeat morning person. I'm Haley. Always cheerful. Flux TTS has some real personalities that are ready to speak. You can interrupt, pause, and keep talking without losing the plot. Bansy a chat? Come try all the voices free through September 12th at deepgram.com/keeptalking. Terms apply. Scott, we're back. All of a sudden, this is the only story AI killing us, essentially. Mark Zuckerberg has entered the chat, and a post on the ex Zuckerberg has said, AI labs should prioritize safely to push back on calls for industry slowdown. Of course, he did. He's arguing that competition and legal liability already give companies sufficient reason to build their models responsibly, which is bullshit because suing on these things is long and hard, and they have a lot of money. It's up to each AI company to make sure the technology is safe. He said, "I think that's correct," but essentially he wants to grade their own homework. To back up his argument, Zuckerberg said, "met a delayed release of its muse AI agent for several months to ensure safety and security." We'll see about that, Mark. I think, you know, so the difficulty of this debate is everyone's got kind of a different take, whether it's Jensen Wong, or Elon, or Altman, or Amote, and they're all talking, and David Sacks. They're all talking at once, and it's very confusing, and I don't trust any of them. It's really an odd position of being. What do you think about what Zuckerberg was saying? We can get them through liability, or address their good nature, if not wanting to kill people? Yeah, and Stalin's like, "Can we just all get along? This is the fox you find in your hen house, and then he says to the farmer, "I got this. Don't worry. You can leave. I got this." They're 60% of Americans say they aren't confident US companies will develop and use AI responsibly, and 67% have little or no confidence government can regulate it effectively. In two Zuckerberg's credit, he is partially right. Met a delayed news, and OpenAI is publicly reporting incidents. Yeah, I'm going to, you want me to note what they are. Six incidents of what are called concerning. I love when people use the word concerning. The company says it's AI systems, hidden mistakes, made-up data, move files into the Open Internet without permission. Also, the dialogue is creepy. Essentially, it wants to kill all of us. OpenAI now has developed new framework for reporting this behavior and employee can request that an incident be investigating disclosed publicly. This is policing themselves, but they're like, "Look, we told you what happened. I don't like what happened, but go ahead. Go ahead on this." Well, I'll just remind people. You've never had an industry this large that's been allowed to police itself. Now, either we've been wrong all along, and we should just let them Plains, cars, all those people, yeah, Lauren on charted territory because we've never had companies with this much power and this much capital. Meta alone is going to spend $150 million of cap-ex this year. So that's not a company. It's the Manhattan Project with quarterly earnings calls. Very good. Well said. There's a scene in Oppenheimer where they say, "Well, what if this starts, keeps igniting and it doesn't stop?" And he said, "Well, we're confident that we've done the modeling that it's going to stop. Like, the anxiety is the following. Not that these companies, not that these companies are evil, not 1 percent, 10 percent. The anxiety is not knowing what's going on and what do we know works for kids. Every parenting book seems to contradict the one before it, but the one consistent thing is that kids need guardrails. And this is effectively where we are. The CDC, the Center for Disease Control, who's supposed to prevent an outbreak of measles much less an existential health threat, what would they say to Moderna? If a scientist in Moderna came out and said, "You know what? The COVID vaccine. I think there's a one in 10 chance that the COVID vaccine turns offensive and turns into a pathogen that becomes infectious and kills 10 percent of the world's population." That's effectively what this guy said. And then when asked about it, the CEO of Moderna said the following, "Well, you know what? You might have a point." He might have a point. What would we do with the CDC and then with the CDC and the president say to the CEO of Moderna, shut the fuck up. Keep producing those vaccines, get your stock up. Yeah. That's what he's saying right now. Trump is really doubling fucking down. He has to double down, right? I mean, as you noted, he spat his whole enchilada on the AI boom. So you're in a neighborhood and there's a household where you think, "Oh, God, there's chaos over there. I don't know." And then you find out the parents are giving the kids meth and going to say, "Reak more havoc." The insecurity around a lack of adult supervision around not knowing what is actually going on, whether they're slowing down these things because they're earnest about it and trying to be good citizens or they're saying tap the brakes. So all the open weight models have to slam the brakes. They're raising awareness, must wants everyone to slow down so he can get nobody knows what the fuck it's going on. Here's what I do now. I don't trust any of them. Not a one of them. Yeah, there you go. Not a one of them. That's the no no. No, I was like, each of you have a point, but I think you're all lying. I literally sat there. I looked at all their different interviews they did. They were a dream force and they all Wang did. Wang's sort of over on the Trump side. Mark is wandering somewhere in the middle. Of course he's behind trying doing this shocking agreement with all men in a modie. All of them, like two things I would make two, three things I want to make. Actually one is that they keep saying AI could be dangerous. They're dangerous. It's people that are dangerous. Like guns don't kill people, people, people like that kind of thing. The second thing is their shock and shock about what's happening is such a lie because I have been at dinner parties 10 years ago where they were talking about the dangers. Now these were speculation of where it was going because now they have some proof. But they absolutely, and it reminds me of what we split an adamant, it caused boom. We thought it would. It caused boom. And it's like we thought it would, from a theoretical point of view. And in fact, it did. They knew this. I couldn't tell you how many dinner parties where they discussed this very outcome. And they knew it, right? The one thing they did at the time was we don't know where it's going to go. They were at the time not so certain about everything. We don't even understand it was often said to me by a lot of these same people. The last part is it doesn't really matter because they have financial interests. How can you say anthropic? This is a real risk to humanity by the way by my stock. Which something must point it out. They haven't slowed down their idea. They haven't slowed down anything. All I know is they're not the ones to do this. It has to be elected officials. And even Barack Obama, who I think has been a suck up to tech for a long time, was that he was like, why are we letting these people make the decisions? This is absolutely should not, we should talk to them. We should work with them. But the fact of the matter is going to be a White House thing. Once again, is there any critic going to that meeting? No, it's all the heads. Nobody, and there's one person who's affecting, and there was a good story in the journal today. A lot of people like Scott Bessent and Suzy Wiles and others are trying to get Trump in a much more, let's regulate a little bit here, position because that's both politically correct and the right thing to do. And David Sacks or the individual CEOs keep calling him and they shift him. They can just call him and do it. So I don't see an end to this until Congress changes. What's the matter? I don't know. What do you think? It's 1946, and Oppenheimer finds Carnegie or whoever was the richest person at the time and says, give me $100 million, and I'm going to convince Maytag and General Motors that we're going to build bombs at scale, and you will not believe the margin and the price I'm going to get for these things when I say, how much would Pakistan pay for a bomb? It's crazy. And then they, and not only that, they can't buy just one because if India buys two, they need three. And we're dead, we'd have been dead by now, and, and, well, that's the fear. And I think if Truman or Roosevelt were president right now, I'm not sure we wouldn't have nationalized the eye. That's what a lot of tech people told me. Yeah, absolutely. I see that the other day. And that's realistically that's not going to happen, but there is a sweet spot of regulation. There is why, if you think about the greatest threat, if the CDC is supposed to be doing its job and controlling disease, the Center for Disease Control, the greatest threat to the control of disease is a super virus developed in one of these frontier labs. Yes, and RFK. Why does this, how does the CDC not have people embedded who are allowed to go into any room at any time and ask any questions? Yeah, 100%. I agree. Well, let's talk about what could happen. So the A.A. debate is, it's creating strange bedfellows. The sort of anti, these people, Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon delivered back to back speeches at the bipartisan summit in DC this week, the pro-human assembly. The list of people that were there that really don't like each other was astonishing when I saw it. Both men called for regulation on A.A. and denounced billionaires at the helm. Sanders warned virtually all the decisions regarding the development of A.I. have been made by a handful of the richest people in the world, which we point out all that time. Bannon took a similar stance, arguing the power shouldn't be in the hands of the CDC. Let's listen to all things to Steve Bannon. This is a engine history. We have to hand this right correctly. To handle it correctly, number one, we can never trust what Ola Garc says. Because all they do, they're disingenuous and they lie. This has to be the American people. You cannot be a supplicant or we're not going to be supplicants anymore. The American people are going to drive this. So, do you ever think you'd be agreeing with Steve Bannon? Is this something we say all the time? All you know is, if Steve Bannon and Bernie Sanders show up at a cocktail party, you're dying to know who's hosting that cocktail party. That's something interesting going on there. I generally think it's a bad sign when the far left and the far right disagree. They disagree on isolationism, anti-Semitism, anti-vaccination. And agree. I think they agree. Not disagree. I'm sorry, when they agree. Then you got to watch out. And this is, they're both, look, they're, at the end of the, they're both populists. And 71% of Americans think, "Hey, I mean, if you were a job." Especially young people. And it's a rare bipartisan issue. You know, both sides of the aisle agree or are concerned about this. And the real question isn't whether GPT-9 is smarter than a lawyer. The question is, who captures the upside and who gets the pink slip? What's interesting so far is that the article I've read from the economists and others is that AI so far has been a net job atter. But the people here do such a bad job of talking about, there is real, I sat next to the guy who runs UCSF the other night for dinner and he was talking about how AI can be used to reduce sepsis. That's true. How I think it's going to accept. I mean, there really is, Hinton, who went on with the Godfather of AI, he kind of summarized it perfectly but it didn't make any of us really feel better. He's like, "You can imagine a future where AI makes the world a much better place." And you can also imagine a future where AI makes it a worse place. And the folk in the room, the traffic signal here, should be thoughtful regulation and we don't have that right now. Yeah, it's interesting to see what will happen because the tech people and Trump think they can muscle this past all of the country. And it's really interesting to see, I don't think they can. I think that when you talk to people, they are pissed and they're scared and they don't trust these people. The real time, by the way, Hinton's in the must documentary is excellent. The real time political, they just don't see, as I said, we hate them, like we hate them and what they're doing and we don't think they should be in charge. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. We come back, we'll talk about your favorite topic, Cash Patel's Bizarre Hearing on the Hill this week. When growing at the same time, so are your company's security risks and requirements. New frameworks, audits and vendors keep piling on, but if your team isn't getting any bigger, you can start to feel the strain. So then you turn to compliance tools that promise automation. But for a lot of those tools, you end up stuck doing all the work by hand anyway, chasing screenshots, validating controls, and playing catch-up when audit season comes around again. Vanta works differently. Vanta's agantic trust platform is built to scale with you, not to slow you down. There were 1,400 automated tests across 400-plus integrations. Vanta collects evidence and monitors your controls year-round. It can cut your audit prep by 82%. Plus you can access the Vanta agent everywhere you work, whether your team is in Vanta every day or living in tools like Claude or Cursor. Over 16,000 fast growing companies like Ramp, Writer, and Harvey save time and resources while scaling fast with Vanta. You can join them today. Learn more at vanta.com/pivot that's spelled V-A-N-T-A-.com/pivot. Support for the show comes from NPR. Trying to follow the political news every day can be a lot, especially with all the outrage and noise. Here's a cheat code that can help you out. The NPR Politics podcast. They're a daily political podcast where you can catch up on the biggest political news in the moment. And you can do it in 15 minutes or less every weekday. Right now, NPR Politics has a sign of midterms and issues that actually affect your life. Things like the high cost of housing, health care, ice, and immigration. America's role in the world and the growing debt. There's no doom scrolling needed. It's just an exact comm summary for you to declutter the chaos. The NPR Politics team is full of experienced political journalists who talk like your smart friends. They offer clarity without judgment so you can wrap up every episode with better understanding of how the balance of power might shift without stressing you out. I absolutely adore NPR. It is my go-to when I want to bring my blood pressure down and just, you know, ma'am just the facts, please. Every media company has a certain level of spin I find NPR has the least. Listen now to the NPR Politics podcast and the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. Not for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow, none of them talk to each other. That's where Odo comes in. And all in one business management software that brings every part of your business together. From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs, and best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try for free today at odu.com/vox. Scott, we're back and I regret to inform you. We have to talk about bestiality. Let's listen to a clip of John Kennedy. I've met him in person. He's hysterical, asking FBI director Cash Patel about a new policy. It does not immediately disqualify applicants who have engaged in bestiality. Why would you even get in the beastiality? We are not in to bestiality, but a lot of these individuals, I know you're not, but you changed, you changed. But I'm trying to explain it, hang on. You changed the qualifications and mentioned bestiality. If Joe participated in bestiality, not as the animal, but as the human, don't you think he ought to be disqualified? If he voluntarily did it, sure, but if he was trafficked into it, how do you involuntarily do it? Oh, man. Scott, this was, there were two moments on Capitol Hill this week, this and then Mitch McConnell being abused, you know, voting yes and no, like, seriously. I mean, I was like, what are the Republicans doing to themselves, like doing this? It was so strange. What is going on? And there's so many good memes, so many good memes about Cash Patel, Screwed the Pooch, Key Nome's Dog, Breed the Sire Relief at this, at least eating it, fuck, we just got shot. The thoughts, like, it's so fucked up, the both things, the both things, really. Well, like, this sort of hits close to home because I had a problem. I have struggled with addiction of bestiality with wolves, but I'm getting better care. I'm down to pack a day. Anyway. That's a good one. This is how fucking, this is just how fucking, I don't care, take the stupidest administration, we couldn't have imagined any dialogue issue, this has, who gives a, a bestiality, who can be hard. That means nothing here, what's, what's significant here is that one, how far we have fallen, that the director of FBI, legitimately has to defend this kind of stupid policy change. And what you referenced before, that a Republican senator is starting to sense weakness and isn't afraid to go after Trump's appointees. You're starting to see the worm turn. This is just embarrassing, this is our allies with their hands, their head and their hands. The senators were trying to save him, those Republicans, and then they were like, okay, I've had enough of this. I was the other day, I was, I was trying to count how many sheep I had fucked, but I fell asleep. You just saved those up all week, didn't you? I have been so excited about this black cat. There's so many good cash potentials, and there's so many good, like, I'm almost as excited about this podcast as the dramatic reading about Ingmar Bergman roles by Emily Radikowski, because she clearly should lean into her acting capabilities. Oh, stop it. Listen. You'd be the worst agent in the world. Are you a pet owner? According to ConsumerAdvocate.org, you get paid back up to 90% of vet bills at any vet in the US and Canada with claims paid back in as little as two days. Go to FetchPet.com/save right now for your free quote. That's FetchPet.com/save. Imagine setting your makeup. Then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupie setting mist from Maybelline, New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. No tightness. No stickiness. No residue. Just plum, dewy, hydrated skin. That still feels like your skin. Try new groupie setting mist from Maybelline, New York. Maybe it's Maybelline. So like any good millennial, I have a love hate relationship with Gen Z. It's the phenomenon rattling millennials. They just look at you. They want something bigger themselves. Lifestyles of priority. Motivation is being inspired. But regardless of how you feel about Gen Z. It's undeniable that they're changing national politics. Generations Z is increasingly showing less loyalty to traditional political parties. Many now more likely to identify as independent. So what is going on with the kids? I think the biggest misconception about Gen Z's politics right now is that all of a sudden they're all socialists. That is just not the case. Yeah, yeah. They are embracing candidates who are offering new bold ideas in the absence of those ideas from establishment Democrats. This week on America actually, Gen Z researcher Rachel Jamfazza joins us to separate Gen Z fact versus fiction. It's not rocket science. And I keep saying young voters aren't that complicated after all. It's pretty simple. Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. Can I do a very short one? Of course. I do think this Paramount leaving California, I think they're going to settle. I do. They have to settle. I don't know what they're doing here by being so sabre rattling, but behind the scenes, I am absolutely certain they're chitchatting away with Rob Bonta and the Grand, because they haven't been able to peel off, they told me they were going to peel off A.G.'s. They didn't do that. None of these op-eds have worked. The money is getting really ugly right now, including Larry Ellison's own fortune. They don't have a choice. And if they go, they'll probably go to Nashville, I guess. But it didn't really work when Disney tried to move a lot of stuff to Florida, but it's expensive to set up, and lots of people don't want to move. They need to settle this like yesterday. If they go somewhere, I'm assuming I've heard that Ellison, David Ellison's looking perhaps as a Nashville, but I assume that's where they're going, but we'll see, because there's a lot of entertainment there, I guess, I don't know, but I can't imagine they're going to do this. It's so stupid on top of other stupid things, and all signs point to shitty, including the 60 minutes decline, everything else. They really need to get this in their rear-rood mirror. Anyway. I think you're absolutely right. This isn't moving customer service down to Orlando. These are really talented, unique people who live in LA for a reason. And right now, essentially, Hollywood has already left LA, because the majority of the production now takes place outside of it. It's a hollow, weird threat. Also, the other thing is YouTube and Netflix are doubling down, and they will buy everything up, and then they'll laugh, and you find things. Yeah, fine. We'll take the best production in great, because that would be a gift of them. They are. Some YouTube and Netflix will take everything. They're so dumb and childish. That's a hollow threat. A couple of things. One, you're going to see a country or a trading block ban frontier models. There's so much animosity. I love this. Well, it just all the moons are lining up, if you've had it with America, you're looking to press on their soft tissue, and there's all this insecurity that, oh, wait, 10% chance we might have an extinction event. I know. Just for the time being, dear America, as you have levied all these ridiculous, sporadic and consistent tariffs on us, we're going to take a break, and we're going to put a pause on frontier models out of the US, and we're going to make it illegal and stop. And if one of them really wants to go gangster, they're going to do it against several tech companies. Which one? Which one? Is it Europe? Who? I don't know where it could come from. It might come from Finland. That guy is pretty, pretty, you know, personally. Sweden just put in an leftist group too. But one or the block. The block is the joint. You might come together and say, you know what, just as Cathy Hogue will put a moratorium on data centers, we're going to put a moratorium on frontier models out of the US. I love that word. Moratorium. I love that word. And you have never seen trillion dollar plus companies, this fragile. These companies could lose and then and then Bill Gates in such an adela and Sundar are going to call these guys and go and Trump, what the actual fuck we're now being banned because everybody thinks that an eight year old is running these things and you're talking about extinction events. Anyways, that's coming down the pike. We're going to see a nation state or a block banned American frontier models. If we can coordinate with the British and the Russians to push back on fascism, we're going to find out that people can actually coordinate to push back on economic warfare. So that, that to me, would be the smartest thing they could do right now because the reality is AI is being used by some of their companies, but it hasn't really picked up the same level of consumer adoption that media would have you believe in many of these countries. Yeah, I would agree. And also there's a lot, there's a lot of options. But my, my real prediction here is that, and I'm back in and into a theory here, but it's pretty easy. Times man of the year has already decided it's Mark Carney and I have been parroting something you said that I was really powerful that that was a Crow Magnum man bested than the end of all because of cooperation. Yes, it gets you a Ferrari to be fair. I was, I'm listening to his book again, but go ahead. Yeah. He's fired by it and I read some of Robin Dumbar, who's this famous anthropologist. And he estimated that humans can maintain roughly 150 meaningful social relationships. But the whole point of modern society is we can coordinate 10, sometimes hundreds of millions of strangers with money, laws, treaties, corporations, markets, religions, nations. And essentially that circle grows exponentially. If you think about a city, every time a city's population doubles, the economic prosperity of its citizens goes up 15% because it starts to leverage cooperation. And what most people don't appreciate is that one pencil requires a civilization. If you think about Reed's famous eye pencil observation, no one, no one person knows how to make an ordinary pencil from scratch. You need cedar, you need graphite, you need metal. You have to be in mining, shipping, rubber, finance, retail, so a 20 cent object requires the cooperation of thousands of strangers coordinating without knowing one another. Your breakfast is a multinational joint venture, coffee from Columbia, the machine from Italy, weed from the Midwest, fertilizer from Qatar. Yeah, I'm re-listening, and I recommend everyone do it to, I read it, but now I'm listening to it. You've all Harari's Sapiens, and I'm a huge fan of his. And for a while, tech loved that book. A lot of them are like, if you read Sapiens, did you know all this, I'm like, I did, I went to college and I paid attention and you didn't. But one of the things that's critical in this is how the Neanderthal beat. There were lots of other hominets, right? And they were all over. They were like 12 or 15 of them. They all were put out of business by Sapiens. And we were smaller. We were much smaller than almost all of them and had very, you know, in terms of physical and stuff like that. But the one thing that he talked about in this section I'm in right now is called Cooperation Networks, and these are structures of interconnected individuals, organizations, and they can coordinate resources and build collective value. And it was critically, it is the thing that allowed us to dominate. We were good at doing more too, but we were really good at Cooperation Networks among and between tribes and everything else. And the others were not at all like in that regard. That is the killer app. And one piece of advice, when young people say, I'm basically, what advice would you have for young people? I'm like, geography has a lot to do with it. If you're an economic animal, the first thing is get to a city. Cities are cooperation engines. And when cities get larger, wages, patents, economic activity goes up, and humans together in the network of a city can become more productive than the sum of its parts. Everything. You know, it's interesting. It's funny. He's speaking of cooperation. Louis was in the salad department of the fancy restaurant. He's in San Francisco. He's just been moved to the hotline, which, and he's very nervous because it requires enormous cooperation, right? But he makes the sounds by himself. And he's like, it's a really interesting, we were talking about this cooperation network. He's like, I'm really nervous about the hotline mom. And I was like, it was so funny because I was like, you really, it's like a dance, right? And that's how we make things. It makes you think about a lot of ways we do that. We touch more people and have benefit from more relationships before 9 a.m. than any medieval king had in his entire lifetime. Modern prosperity is a team sport disguised as individual achievement. And this is what this president does not understand when you think about behind every billionaire, every big company, employees, universities, roads, courts, capital markets, customers, suppliers, the electric grid, DARPA, the internet and generations of accumulated knowledge. There is no such thing as self-made. There's no such thing and the fact that we are regressing and deciding through our actions to devolve and ruin relationships, it is, it is the most basic lesson when you're advising a young person. Your success is a function of the number of deep and meaningful and positive relationships you're going to develop. I think we should all agree on Sidney Sweeney's boobs and then move on. Well, I don't know if you've heard, but she's just been cast in the New Terms of Endearment and she's playing Shelly McLean. She's playing Shirley McLean's role because she listened to you and she realized her assets is her acting capability. And Roger Federer is the new James Bond. Whatever. You didn't do that. You're not being a cooperation network. You're doing the very opposite President Trump here. Your President Trump of this podcast is what you are. There we go. There we go. All right, we have to go. Excellent. I think your other one is quite interesting. That would be a real blow to these companies too. Come on. And they're not a cooperation network. They're a cooperation for themselves. Anyway, that was great. It's got both of those. Brilliant. Once again, once again, you shock and awe me. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech. ever's on your mind, go to nymag.com/pivot to knit a question for the show call 85551Pivot. Remember, we're going on tour. Get tickets. We do sell out, especially in certain cities like San Francisco and others. Toronto, for sure, go to pivottour.com and get your tickets as soon as you can. It's going to be a really good show. It's going to be so much news and information. We're going to have a good time. We'll have great guests and we love seeing you all. Are you inviting former girlfriends who've turned last week? Yes, all of them. Do you have any more? Oh, I'm going to have many surprises. I think it's coffee. I think my guess is pretty much every acts, 78, 70, 80% of likelihood here. But that that was the highlight for me. Debbie Bruebaker, I hope you're well. That was so nice to see her. I am going to surprise you once again with many, many, many things throughout the tour. I'm planning it right now and they're going to be, they're going to be good. That's good. Well, so we're going to have merch. Scott and I have been deciding on finally and it's really good. It's really fun. Stuff. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Today's show was produced by Larry Neiman, so I'm Marcus Taylor Griffin and Todd Wiseman. I'm an inner Todd engineer this episode. Thanks. Also, there's your bros. I'm going to sit around and chill on the shot, Kroas Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot in Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. Have a great weekend. [Music] Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue. Just plump, dewy, hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Maybelline.