Zeke Smith

Open your hearts, loosen your bucks! It's time for. Kapoos! There'll be. A couple Sarabay! Hello everyone and welcome to Kapoos Therapy. My name is Andy. My name is Naomi. We're real life couple. A real life couple of comedians. On Kapoos Therapy, we answer a couple different questions from our couple different listeners. Naomi! Ha! Here we are. It's almost Thanksgiving. The only holiday, not like what Thanksgiving is about but what we do. This is for me what I think holidays should be. Eating too much food, sitting in the house. You may say how is that different from any other day? And for me, I think it's the fact that everyone else is doing the same thing. You finally feel like you bow all. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's like going to your comic book convention. Right. You finally surrounded by people. Yes. You are. You are finally surrounded by people who are so full. Yes. Now their stomach is distended. It's not just people who are so full. You get to have conversations about so what do you eat? That's all I ever want to know. What do you eat? How do you feel? What are you going to eat next? And you can only have that conversation for like five days and November. I'm going to say I feel. I don't want to say proud of us. But you know tough year, we did drop the ball. I'm like figuring out like who should come to Thanksgiving? It's just us this year because we. Yes, just us. We did not. You know, we even like didn't figure out what we were actually doing until like a week ago. Like in terms of like getting food and things like that. So. But we did get that together. We did. So you know, I'm sure we'll eat a lot of food. We've got some screeners. Yep, maybe. Maybe. If there's anything good. And we'll just have a nice time. We got some special food. You know, we got maybe I believe a little pie company pie coming through. Okay. And that is a black owned business. So we do get that pie shipped. And that's going to be real exciting. Listeners, what are you doing for Thanksgiving? Yeah, I was looking for the comments. What are you excited for? Anything? Do you just mean that in general? I did mean for the holiday, but it could also apply in general. You know, at the very least you get the day off work. That's nice. You're going to have a friends giving, a friends giving, some people. Well, I'm saying I'm like, if you get the day off work, is there a friends giving moment for some people? You know, sometimes people get together. You know, using it as a. You know, taking excuse to be in community. Okay? Yeah. Of course, you know, we advocate being safe in community. So. Well, sure. You can, you know, outside. And, quite frankly, you've been listening to this long enough, you should know what that is. Okay? And if you don't want to be safe in community, you ain't got to be safe in community. Just don't be part of my community right now. Don't come around me. Absolutely not. If your community happens to include Louis CK, maybe find a new community. I'm like, can't wait to read his new book. If your community was at the Rihanna Comedy Festival, find a new community. That is a suggestion. I still think it's so funny. A season. Look, I don't know what season it starts. I don't know his financial business. I do think it's very funny that he did this, he did the Rihanna Comedy Festival. Right before he had to go around promoting his new film. Yeah. And that's all anyone asked some questions about. Why would you do this? Why would you do the Rihanna Comedy Festival? Why would you go to the Rihanna Comedy Festival? Overshadowed his film, which I saw it opened and then basically that Monday was on. It was available to rent video. Okay. Okay. Look, I don't know if the film is good or not. I have no idea. I just think it's funny that you would do something. So. And you remember we're not on the Patreon? Okay. Just like, just making sure. You know what? Just checking, just checking. You know what? I think. I think it's okay. I think everyone is on the same page. Okay. Just checking. That maybe doing. I think. No, not my Rihanna. What now? Listeners, I. You know what? I'm okay criticizing publicly. People who went and whitewash the crimes of a murderous regime. Sure. For sure. For sure. Murdered a journalist and dismembered him. Right. Right, right. Other things. So, you know what? I'm okay. Hey, look. Am I a political hero, folks? Yes. Yes, I am. For criticizing people who were. Oh my God. We're taking the money of the regime. They murdered a journalist among other crimes. So, okay. You know what? Yeah. I'll take it. When a hero comes alone with the strength to criticize when you're on your own podcast and you know you can survive. Of course, is he's. If you want to come on "Couple's Therapy"? Injured. What? Let's pivot. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. We have "Z's." Do you want to be on this podcast? It's like. We would never. Anyway, Naomi, before we get into the episode today, we have a voice man. Is this someone who listened to the Halloween episodes late? Okay. So, they have some thoughts about. Again, listeners. Oh my God. Oh my God. God, candy basket gate. Candy basket gate. Candy basket out. We were like, you know what? We'll be good. Instead of just turning the lights off. Hiding under the covers, pretending we died. We'll try to participate in. In the neighborly activities. We put a candy basket out. And what we think, based on people we know, that some, you know, teenagers and really like 16, 17-year-olds, came and just snatched all the candy away. Yeah. That's what we think. The candy basket was emptied within 20 minutes. So people have called and said different things like maybe it's. Maybe it's raccoons. Yeah. You know, maybe it was children, whatever. Right? And here's a voice that gives us some thoughts on what we can do in the future. Okay. Hi, Andy and Naomi. I'm a few weeks behind. So I just listened to your post-Halloween episode in which you spoke of teenage hooligans coming and. Strewing your candy all about. I thought Andy's sentiment was very sweet of having a phone number for them to call. But as someone who works with 12-year-olds, I can tell you they're going to just do the same thing anyway and ignore the phone number because it's more fun to be devious. So my suggestion would be either for next year's Halloween to dole out the candy in increments. So maybe every 15 minutes, every 30 minutes, you're going out and you're just putting a little in the candy bowl. So there's not that much for them to take. Or you sit out and hand each child one candy. Or just do the traditional door opening thing or honestly you can skip it whenever I would trick or treat. If the house was dark, we would just skip. And no shame. No shame in that. Working with children, interfacing with the youth. It's not for everyone. Every day I come home and I stare at the wall. Anyway, hope this helps. Goodbye. Oh boy, interfacing with the youth is not for everyone. Every day I come home and stare at the wall. The heaviness in their voice. Yeah, you can hear the heaviness. Absolutely. Thank you for your service. You are a frontline worker. Yeah, for sure. For sure. For sure. So, yes. So here's the thing. I mean, the whole problem was we wanted to be neighborly. We wanted to be neighborly. Still. Okay. No, no. Look, I don't mean to go off on a rant. You loved a rant. By the way, I have a new idea for a podcast. Oh no. You know how, like, basically every internet show now and every, every new video podcast is just ripping off Bowen and Matt in terms of, like, they're just doing their own first of, I don't think so, honey. Sure. Right? Sure. Okay. Well, we do a podcast where we critique everyone else's hot takes from those other ones. Right? It's called rant roundup. So every week in podcasting all the rants, all the subway takes, all the whatever. And then listen to them and then we say what we think of their takes. Yes, exactly. Okay. Okay. Don't do that. This is a great idea. So anyway. But it's just like, I guess you can't, you can't copy right a hot take. Yeah. I get it. We all know, we all know you're just doing, I don't think so, honey. Okay. We all know it, folks. We all know that's what you're trying to do. Andy's calling you all. I'm calling you. I'm a half a mat of Bowen for some reason. They don't need me to do that. (laughing) - So anyway, Naomi, this is the thing. We want to be neighborly. - Yeah. - However, we did not want to interface. - We did not want to interface with the youth. - So the solution has to be one in between lights on neighborliness and not talking to a human being. - Right, which would then be the suggestion of - Every half an hour, I can do that. - Maybe, you know, I can do every half an hour. - You do it. - Put it out. - And I'll sit in the house. - It's not a big deal. - You sit in the alarm. - We're already, we're trying to sit down at dinner, watch Taskmaster. - Yeah. - All right, we're already getting up 10 different times, Naomi. You sit down, then you're like, oops, I forgot a drink. Then you come back, oops, I forgot napkin. (laughing) Then, maybe we'll need something. - Sure, oops, maybe we've got to go out. Oops, maybe we'll need to pill. - Yeah, oops, maybe we'll just spit up on the ground. - Oops. - Oops, I got to clean that up. And then, oops, Andy did not like the extent to which I cleaned it up. He had to get up to get a spray. (laughing) - Oops, I did it again. - Oops, I did it again. - Oops, oh my. - Right. - So, yes, a lot of oopsies. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you might as well just put some candy out. - So, I think you're right. - So, I like the interval. - Yeah, solution. - That's good. - That's good. - That's what we're gonna do next year. Hey, Naomi, very quickly. Very quickly. I just wanna, because I think it was such a fun episode on the Patreon. I always wanted to plug this. We just did a live advice episode. - Yes, people, we zoomed with some listeners and they asked the questions directly and guess what we could do. We could ask follow up. We could get details. I said, let's drill down. Okay, what do you think of that? They go, well, what about this? And then we said, okay, what about this? Okay, so we were building. We were in community. It was wonderful. And we very much suggest you join. - Yeah, yeah. - Okay, patreon.com/couplestherapypod. 'Cause that's fun. And you know what, I think we're gonna do it again. We're gonna do it again. - Oh, for sure. It'll be up tomorrow on the Patreon. So you're not even missing anything yet. - Hello. Okay, so just wanted to throw that out there. And of course, holidays coming up. We got mugs, we got teachers, we got all that. - All that good stuff. - Links in the show notes. All right, Naomi, who is our wonderful, underlying wonderful guest today? - Well, do you remember the tension? Up top. So, yes, he's, he's. - Tension, he's, he's wonderful. But I'm telling you, well, this also he is savage. You have already heard his dulcet tones. Can I say? - Yeah. - Zeke Smith, babe. - Well, this is what I love about having friends on the show is that we get to razz. Okay. - Well. - This is what I love about having a friend on, we get to razz. They get to razz us. We get to razz us. - Drag. - Drag. - Okay, there was some draggery. Okay, but you know Zeke from Survivor. You know him from the Netflix documentary Disclosure. He is on the board of directors of GLAD. And you know what? He is wonderful. And we had a chance to sit down. You know what I mean? The other half of Zeke Smith and Nico Santos. Okay. We said Zeke, come in here. Let's talk to you. Let's get into it. You know, we've had Nico and Zeke gone together. You gotta get him separate. You can really get like, it's okay, let me, let's just you and I. - Let's get into it. - Well, I've had couples on, but you gotta have, when you, once you're, once you've talked to the couple, you gotta talk to the individual. - You gotta get to the individual. We finally able to sit down with Zeke and we had a wonderful time. And so without further ado, happy Thanksgiving and roll it. (upbeat music) - See you, now Zeke Smith, this is so beautiful to have you here. - Well, about damn time. - Well, okay, well, let's talk about, okay. Now you open a door. You open a door, okay. Now Zeke, call this the opening crash for the Twilight Zone 'cause you just opened the door. Because let's let the record shut. First we had on your husband, Nicole. - First we had on the both of you. - Well, no, yes, you were first both on together, okay. - Yes, and then in the interim, I've invited you to how many fool parties. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - How many news? How many parties? How many classes there been a winter event in my home? Where because y'all don't come inside, I have opened up the doors. I have provided a special bathroom access. Okay, yeah, continue. And then after I, I know, I'm in that. - Wait, I thought you told me to continue. - I know, I'm in that place. - But you then proceed to speed. You told yourself to continue. You told yourself. You don't need to speed up to continue. - And then, it's up to continue. - You invite my husband, solo, all by himself. And then after more invites to more fool parties. Okay, no, we go unpack this shit. Okay, because so we then come to you and say, because as you know, Nico was on St. Dennis, a program for which I write. Okay, so we trying to promote those layers and levels naturally. - Sure. - Then, then email Zick saying, Zick, you ready to come on the plot? - Let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me flesh this out just slightly more. At the time, we're like, oh, we'll have Nico on now when he's on Naomi's episode of St. Dennis, while they're filming it. And then we'll ask Zick back later in the year. That was always the plan. - No, no, no, we said that this was never communicating with me. - You know why? - I don't know. - You want to know why? - No, you want to know why? - You want to know why it was never communicated to you? - Because you would always cut off a bitch when she was trying to tell you something in the pool. We was in the pool and I said, Zick, and you said, well, you ain't having me, I said, you ain't letting me finish my damn sentence, Zick. And you see, can I finish? Okay, is giving Zick to himself? - Can I finish. - Okay, can I finish? Then when we do send you an email, Zick, why don't I hear from your ass for about 10 business days to an electronic mail for something that, as you can tell already, listener, he was up in fucking arms. Okay, he was ready to cut us off the guest list. We were dead to him for ages and then we finally, and then I send a damn email, and we don't hear from him, we don't hear from 10 business days. So did you want to be on the pad or did you just want to do wanted? - Well, if I may, if I may, you hold on, you may. - I serve on the board of directors for an organization called Glad. And at the time you emailed me, it was about three or four days before we have one of our tri-annual board meetings. I was sick as a dog in New York. My husband, not there to take care of me on my own. And then, so I was sick and trying to recover before this big board meeting. The board meeting takes three days where I'm fully engaged. And then it's, come up with it. Come up with it. - So you know how the trans community is sort of like the political whipping boy of the world right now. Sometimes as the member of one of the largest LGBT organizations in the world, and as the only trans man on the board, sometimes I feel a little overwhelmed after these meetings, feeling like the community is on my shoulders. So sometimes I get bad at emails afterwards. Check and mate. - Isn't he so convenient how he went from both the road at a tech, revoking our invites to the parties? - Which, to me. - You have never been revoked. You have been on every invite. - Yes, but you have insinuated that perhaps due to not being on the podcast. We were on thin ice. - Oh god. - This is heckin' mate, then. - Sorry. I am a servant of my community. That responsibility very seriously. That doesn't mean I'm still not like a comedian who likes to give my comedy friend shit. - Oh, we know. - Oh, we know. - Which is why we love these. - Well, I will say this, have you always been a shit stutter, like even growing up? - Oh yeah, very much so. - Okay. Tell us how. - Yeah, what's going on? What can we dynamic? - What's your stir in the pot? - Yeah, what shit were you stirring then? - Well, it wasn't at home because at home I was always a disappointment, always all the time because I come from, I love my parents. - You know what I'm so on, you know what is about to be said when you start a sentence. - Oh, you know I love black. - I love black. - Here's the butt. - My parents now realize I'm like, by far and away, like the better child. And that they were the ones with the stick up their ass. But I had an older brother who was super smart, very handsome, very popular state champion in both football and baseball and high school. And just sort of, I went to a very small school in central Oklahoma and he just followed all of the rules. I mean like he would get in trouble like going drinking but that was sort of expected. - Right, right. - But he was excellent in all of the ways that you're supposed to be. And then like I am four years behind, they're trying to make me like be like a fucking cheerleader and tap dancer and like I'm having none of it. I spend my summers going to like theater camp where I like meet Jews and queer people. And then I have to like come back to Oklahoma where I just hated where like even though I am smart and doing well in like the Hamington school. It's never good enough, right? Like I am too shabby. My mom is making me have weekly weigh-ins. Oh, no. You know, she was like that. Okay. You know, I just, I don't at school, I can't say anything, right? I can't do anything, right? I don't know. Until I, in order to like dress correctly, I just start wearing what everybody else wears and then I get in trouble for being a copier. So there's just like a no-win situation. Yeah. And then when I get to high school, that's when it's just like, all right, I am going to. I have now learned to be mean in a way that's not just like, I would do you hear someone talking? I can't hear someone talking. I have learned to be mean in a way where I dig deep into people's psyche and pick out the thing that like really gets to them. Wow. Oh, I get that. I get that. It's, I mean, besides the fact that I'm not standing up, it's the reason why I can't do a roast battle because I would just be so, I would just be mean with no joke. Yes. Me with no joke. Like, oh, you were born on love. [LAUGHS] And it's just like, oh, should there be at least some nominal punchline in there? And it's just going for the throat. I get it. Yeah. But how does it help you? For instance, you learn to be mean. But is this in exchange for like, are you trying to become popular? Is it so people would just like not even talk to you? What is the plan? What? So it was just to establish dominance. It was just like, I am not the type who like sits on my heels and gets attacked. Like, I'm going to come back at you. But then, because I was so mean and so cutting, then people did just leave me alone. Oh. What was that? Did you enjoy that at least? Maybe. I mean, like-- Yeah. I think I enjoyed no longer being the victim. Right. I enjoyed being in a position where if anyone did give me shit, I could give them a shit back in a way that made them have the effect that they were trying to have on me. Right. I was bullied. I just bullied back harder. Yeah. It's so funny, because you just have the sweetest smile in the sweetest face. So when you smile, as you say these things, I'm like, why is Santa so mean? [LAUGHTER] Did you have any friends in this time in high school? Well, you know, I did. So I was on the debate team. And I was very good, very close to winning a national championship. So I hung with the other debate boys. And then I had a friend named Huey, who-- and a friend named Mattis, and a friend named Austin, who were not like debate people. And yeah, I would say we were actually friends. I was sleeping with Austin. He was a red-headed offensive lineman, which would continue to be my type. [LAUGHTER] Yeah. And then it was so interesting. When I transitioned in college, I was-- I transitioned before it was like a cool thing that people knew about. And for me, it was very much like, we were going to cut off everyone who doesn't know me immediately right now. Slowly, I've started to sort of like friendbacks and people from high school. But it's been 20 plus years. So yeah. But Huey was my best bud. So I was like, I'm queer, I'm a dog, I'm in high school. And Huey was just always my bud. And then the day after we graduated from high school, Huey was like, oh, yeah, I'm gay too. I've just been hearing all the things people have been saying behind your back. And was like, I'm never going to put myself in that position. Oh, wow. And then he went to Wisconsin. And I went, you know, it's college in Boston. And yeah, it just sort of petered out from there. Though he now lives in Austin, which is where my mom lives. So every time I go, I'm like, should we chat to Huey? I was gonna say, you know what? I wonder. Huey, if you're listening, you should reach out to Zeke. Well, I don't know exactly. It's like only if you're trying to be cool. Like I'm like, I'm not, you know what I'm saying? That's a weird, I mean, I guess I understand the feeling, but also like to tell someone, like, by the way, I'm gay, but also I didn't want to say anything. Because I like-- I heard what people were saying about it. I had like an ally, a friend that was like a little deeper in it with you. And I don't know. Look, it bothers me. So I'm not mad about that, right? Like it's such a local home of a weird situation. That doesn't have-- I don't have any feelings about that anymore, but it's also just been like, you know, it's been 20 years. These lives have lived my life. There were times where I was kind of an asshole to him in high school as well. And I don't know. Yeah. I mean, like I would definitely be down to like have, you know, lunch, have dinner with him. But I also don't know what any of us would get out of it. Because I don't think the idea is to sort of like reestablish this friendship. It would be more just to be like, if he's curious to talk to me and I was curious to talk to him, which I think I am. But otherwise, like, I don't know. Yeah. And now, have you had a lot of people reach out to you between, you know, being on the board of glad, OK? And carrying the community, which is real. But then also survivor and these things. Have you had a lot of people from, you know, the high school college days reach out to you, trying to be like, look, love to get a coffee? No. OK. Interesting. I maybe had a couple of like friend requests from people in high school. But that's about it. OK. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. I'm surprised in the, in the fame aspect. Because I feel like people always want their proximity to fame in some capacity. And so I'm surprised. Like, they're not Oklahoma people who are like, you know, Zika's a big example. Well, I think it's complicated, right? Like, it's, it's first of all, you know, when I was on survivor, it still had been a while since I'd been there. And I transitioned. And that's sort of a complicated thing to negotiate, I think. But what is so interesting is, as conservative as the little enclave I grew up in is that like, they found out that I was trans sort of when the world did, like when I was on survivor. So it was always linked to fame in this way. I think my mom's friends would have maybe had a different reaction had she been updating them, you know, throughout the process, like since I like came out and was going through all the stuff. But because they only found out in the context of fame, they were all very much just like very excited to know someone who was in proximity to fame. And then they became more excited when I got together with Nico, because they all watched Superstore. And then it became so now. So now it's become not so much to be in proximity to me as to trying to be proximity to Nico. Do you think that's true? Or is that something you like feel? Do you know what I mean? Like, dude, well, it's what my mom tells me. So I don't interact with these with these women. That are my moms, you know, longtime friends. I there is that there was like, definitely, when we got engaged, there was one of them who I've gotten this is part of our culture there when one of the friends groups kids gets engaged. There are our parties thrown and they are thrown by the other friends. And so my mom had been participating in throwing parties for her friends kids when they got engaged. And so my mom's friends made a big to do about, well, you know, if they ever want, if you know, see, can you go ever want to come here? We'll definitely throw the party and it's like a, you know, it's an open invitation and we'll take care of everything and it'll be fabulous. And then one of the friends like really expected to be invited to the wedding. And was really think hard broken when she wasn't. And but my mom, so my parents are divorced. And I offered my mom to let one of her friends, not the crazy friend, but her other friends. Common sort of be her plus one. And she turned it down because she was like, well, if I have this friend and not the other friend, like, it's going to be catastrophic. Oh, my. Yeah. But the other interesting thing is, especially as like trans kids are the center of the debate right now. And you think that would be a very like sticky issue for this enclave. However, the like high school quarterback who then became sort of a minor rock star. And when he was the quarterback, led us to a state championship. He has now come back to Oklahoma and has a child who has trans. Okay. And everyone is like on board with it because it's the star quarterback's kid. Wow. Wow. Wow. Even the reason I'm saying, wow, it's because I'm like, not even current star quarterback. Like star of the 1998 champion high school championship. I will not see Friday night lights. I know that's Texas, but like that. I know, but to think that that power still lives on decades after you've graduated. And you know, you have that social capital. Yes, they still married with the children. Ed O'Neill's character, all he talks about is his high school glory day is playing football. Andy, now that's also from 25 years ago. And I don't know if you can be referencing. All right. So I did married a children, which is late 80s. I did Friday night lights, which was late 90s early. No, that was early on early on. Early on. Early on. So what's the latest iteration of guy who who peaked in high school and all he does is talk about that, but that's, but that carries some kind of cash a in their hometown. Whatever that is now pretty little liar. I don't know. I've never seen his. I have anything to do with. Yeah, because I have football. Anyway, the point, that's not the point. I don't know what the point is. Well, my point is I'm very, I'm surprised that that holds that kind of social capital even after all these years. But I guess it's good if he's helping the enclave join the 21st century. So you tell me this, when you said the debate, to me seeing this in the world, it's not really a debate. It is something manufactured by right wing psychos that then gets injected into the public conscious. But most people, I think, are not bothered by someone being gay or trans in general. Well, someone who gets to look at the polling three times. Yeah, I was gonna say, yes, what is the number of this? That's why this is what I'm, yes, this is a prompt. Yeah, so the way that was, so be people being gay, most people don't care. They were actually starting to see the numbers reverse for the first time since 2015. Oh, brother. People starting to like turn against gay marriage, people starting to be like wary about gay, is teaching in schools or being in the military. Those numbers are still very high in support. They are starting to reverse them. Because the current generation, Jen, what is, there's millennials and then there's whatever. And then there's a gen alpha. Jen alpha, I think, because they were raised during the pandemic, they have all this anxiety, which is being delayed by participating in conservative evangelical churches, which had been losing you like since the 90s. And now those numbers are starting to pick back up. Like young people, especially like young adults, are starting to re-subscribe to these like very black and white beliefs because they were grow up in the age of such like anxiety and upheaval. Anyway, so with trans, like on the hold, does America think that like trans adults should exist? Yes. Does on the hold do is America think that trans people should not be subjected to violence? Yes. The good numbers are Americans tend to not like to see people like being beat up and marginalized. However, when you start talking about kids, those numbers change radically. So when you start talking about like should trans kids be able to like use the bathroom set align with their gender or you know sports is really like the big loser, those numbers are very bad. Even amongst people who otherwise are like left leaning your Democrat, Democrat, I identify. And you know, it's, I think here's the problem, is that we as a community were caught flat-footed by the right like deciding to dunk on trans issues. And so we were just behind. We were behind on laying the groundwork like we did for same sex marriage where we had worked for, you know, for like two and a half decades of having, of equipped not only having willing grace out there to sort of like speak to a mainstream audience to mystify like what a gay relationship looked like, but also two and a half decades of having, you know, your gay hairdresser talk to the conservative women in his, you know, in his chair and his salon chair. And then being like, you know, I gave people weren't that scary. So we had this like natural on the ground organic movement of queer people coming out and identifying themselves and doing the work in their own families and communities to try to be like to to move the needle on gay people that's scary and they should probably be able to get married. But trans people are such a smaller part of the population and like really the weaponizing of trans issues came before there was even much of a movement for an increase in trans rights. Like it's sort of the same with gay marriage. They really, they, the defensive marriage act, they banned gay marriage before anyone was trying to get gay married. (laughing) But there's just so many more complicated issues which arise when you're talking about kids, we're talking about access to healthcare and even though trans youth healthcare has been, the protocols have been approved for I think three decades at this point and like rubber stamped by, not rubber stamped, but you know, approved by the Americans like a logical association to meet him. Pediacs association, married medical association, all of like the professional like, you know, A blank A's are on board with it. We're also living in a time where we don't trust medical establishments anymore. You know, there I think is a very, I, in a couple of these like conversations I've tried to have with people who are, I think fair minded and like, you know, look at like their rates of regret are less than like any other sort of cosmetic, you know, procedure you could have. - So low. - We also see like rates of like self-harmony suicide dropped drastically when kids have access to care. Like, but a guy once told me he was like, look, you can tell me all the facts in the world. I'm a father, this hits me in a visceral emotional way. The idea of my kid wanting to get surgery. Even though like, we don't do surgery on mine. It's right. Like the idea that, you know, I have a little girl and there might be some boy who's can't get on the boys team and then wants to play on the girls team. Even though we're not seeing that happening in all the states where trans youth can play aligned with their gender, you know, it's not happening in a bathrooms. We're not seeing, we're not seeing, you know, like these are our problems which are totally fictitious, but they seem to hit in some part of the subconscious that really concerns people. And we have that, we have all the facts and the evidence on our side. It doesn't really matter because we're at this sort of anti-truth moment, anti-medical moment. In a moment where people are not encouraged to be better versions of themselves, they're encouraged to be their most base version of themselves. So yeah, it's a complicated, scary, tricky time and now I'm not gonna be able to answer emails for 10 days 'cause I'm all freaked out about it. Oh no, I don't bet, I don't bet you. Okay, so don't invite people to any podcast recordings for the next 10 days, 10 business days, okay? - From this recording. - From this recording 'cause you have done this. - Yeah, this will be out in a couple weeks. - And hopefully Zika's got that. - Oh, I'll be fine by then, yeah. - But here's the complicated thing. So glad we do culture change. So we're not a political organization that we do like test on messaging. And the whole, like the best thing that could happen as we approach the midterm and then, you know, the next major election cycle is that nobody talks about trans people and the best way for no one to talk about trans people is for politicians to say, yeah, I don't think trans kids should be in sports. Like the best way to neutralize the issue is not sure how to educate or like fix the issue. The best way strategically is for politicians to sort of do like what Obama did with marriage equality when he first ran, which is like, no, I don't believe in marriage equality, even though it was like wink, wink, nunch, nunch. So the best way to neutralize the issue and not have trans issues be a wedge issue is to just be like, no, yeah, I agree. - Are you pulling out inside of a mega church? - Yeah, yeah, where's that's what went come from? - That feels wild. I know what you're saying in a way, 'cause you said not to be used as a wedge issue. - Right, the whole idea is not, is to, you can't run on a politician, but you know, I don't know about y'all, but I wish a lot of college football. So I got a talk. - Yeah, who are you familiar with? - I know who you are. - That's very nice. I don't know about y'all, but it's like, you do know about us. - You know about us. - That was very nice for you. - You know about us. - That was nice. - Well, you know, British panel shows. (laughing) - And so I got, you know, the full-throated run of that Trump ad where you have Kamala sitting at the, Translegal Defense Fund, answering questions about like, you know, trans women prisoners being in women's prisons and you know, Trump saying, you know, Kamala cares about they, them, Trump cares about you. And it was a very effective ad, and they ran the shit out of it. And I think in the Virginia governor's race, this is gonna contradict what I just said, I think 51 to 54% of all of the ads opposing the Democratic candidate were on trans issues. And though the Virginia candidate won. - That's people lost. Yeah, the GOP lost there. I mean, the winner was a former CIA person. So I'm not like super thrilled about that, but like better than a psycho Nazi, I guess. - Sure. - Hopefully, if you could, - Hopefully, if you could, - Hopefully. But like, Zoran ran on an unapologetically pro-trans platform. And fucking true. - Sure, in New York City. - Well, in New York. - But I mean, that's a positive, I guess this is, I mean, look, I can't. I know they asked me to be in one of their ads, but I was not available. - Oh my God, you didn't get the email. (laughing) - Well, they actually sent it to my DMs, but it was, 'cause I didn't follow whoever, like the campaign manager was. It was in my deep DMs, so it wasn't while before I saw it. - Okay, yeah. - Okay, well, you know, I mean, that's in Zoran, you know, I'll take it. - Well, my email just, (laughing) at least she didn't go company. - Exactly. - Exactly. - Look, I can't say anything. I have, and as a scientific person, take this with 100,000 grains of salt. - Sure. - But like, when I see someone stand up for the rights of all people, that energizes me much more than someone who is triangulating, like doing some kind of Clinton ask triangulating. Because then when they get into office, they, you can't really hold them accountable, because, well, they haven't stood for any. [BLANK_AUDIO] - You can't say you didn't do the thing you said you were gonna do 'cause you never really said shit. - Yeah. - But okay, I wanna pivot though, 'cause I think that what you're saying is, just a deeper dive combo than what I wanna talk to you about, though, is kind of this duality you have in terms of, and again, you joked, but at the same time, I think it's true whether you kind of wanted it to be or not, right? You do end up soldiering a community on your, you know, at time, and I don't necessarily know if that was always your intention, because I know-- - No, it is very famously not my intention. - Right, it's like, you were basically a silly comedy boy. You know, you're not an improv boy, and so it's sort of like, kind of how do you kind of balance both of those in terms of, 'cause the first is right, like comedy and writing, and those things are like what we do oftentimes for ourselves, right, and they feel good. But then you also get this opportunity to be of service in really practical boots on the groundways, and so it's really, so then you're like, well, should I, how much sketch should I be writing? When I guess I could be helping the world. - Yeah, no, it is, it is challenging, it's a daily battle. So for the listener who doesn't know who I am, which is probably most of you, I transitioned in college, I moved to New York, I started doing comedy, I stopped telling people I was trans. I wanted to do, like the thing that my heart burned to do more than anything else was go on survivor, but not have being trans be like a part of my story. I go do one season, we, which for told, have a great time, I immediately am invited back, and by immediately, I am the tribe of Spoken voted out, and then they're like, hey, do you wanna come back to Fiji and Tui, so do this again. And I do, and halfway through this second, this all-star season, another player, like in a very mean way, out to me as trans, there's this whole tribal council you can watch it online. (laughing) But it was, this was in like 2016, 2017. It became this huge thing, it was the story of the day, it sort of transcended past survivor world, which survivor stories don't really do. And it made me at the time, one of, it's not the most visible transgender man in the world. And remember, I was a comedy boy who didn't want to tell anybody who was trans. So this was like a thing, the saga got involved with Glad, in particular Nick Adams, who is vice president of entertainment now. He sort of like shaped me into a person who could do well in with a way not only of this moment, but like further on. So I moved to LA, he immediately has me wrangled into like doing mentorship work with trans boys, like high school college, trans boys. And like my relationship with Glad continues. I mean, my husband at the Glad Awards, later I would propose at the Glad Awards, they wrote me into being on the board. So it is like, - Well, Rope, you don't propose that the Glad Awards, now you gotta be on the board. Okay, if you get your proposal in there, we're like, okay, you will be working for us today. - Yes, yes, you will be raising money for us and giving us lots of your own money too. (laughing) So, you know, I have always been a sort of activist oriented person, always wanted to be impolite inside ideas about being in the Supreme Court or being president or whatever. And so it is this thing of like, I did not want this, but now that I have this, I have to do a good job at it. Because I know how much shitty trans representation or lacks of trans representation, I saw and it had negative effects, it would have been so nice to see good trans representation. So that has been the idea. It's like, I want to be the person that a younger version of me can look at and take positive things from. But because it is such a, there are so few of us, so specifically trans guys, the burden does feel larger and it is completely endothetical to trying to do anything comedic. (laughing) Like, I, because I want to, because I see so much that as a writer messaging wise, I could do better. Strategically, as a strategic minded person, I could do better. And if I wanted to throw myself into it, I could, I don't know that anyone would listen to me because my, I think, guiding philosophy is like, we need to be able to communicate things to people in Oklahoma. And that may mean communicating things in a way that feels like it compromises sort of certain ideals, like you were talking about, Andy. It might mean like taking a compromise. It might mean being like, let's just not talk about trans stuff for 10 years so that we can rebuild our infrastructure and be in a better place, you know, public perception wise to, you know, kind of win back what we've lost. Which is not necessarily like a popular thing in a lot of activist circles, but I do think it's an effective strategy. So regardless, there is the part of me that like does feel like I can make a difference. There's a part of me that feels like I would be yelling at a brick wall. And then there's like very much a part of me that like just once or twice in my stupid scripts about like gay spies and province stuff, you know? (laughing) I want to see that. - What? - 100%. - Right. But it is like, I kind of have to live in the way my ADHD brain works. It's like, I can't write on a day where I'm going to be cleaning and doing laundry. You know? - Yes, yes. - So now we have this like tertiary problem of like, are we going to be trying to think about and like, you know, reconstruct the American political system in the way they talk about trans people? Or are we going to be trying to write a new spec script today? (laughing) - Uh-huh. - And split the focus. - Yeah, okay. - Split the focus. - Yes. So it does make the brain kind of go bowl and bowling. - Yeah, do one day on, one day off, one day laundry. All right, so here's your go. - Okay, Andy's got a schedule for you. - Yeah. - Here's your schedule. - And only my brain could be scheduled that way I would love it. (laughing) - Monday activism, Tuesday, again, I want to see this province town spy show. (laughing) I didn't catch what you had to say. - Maybe Andy, you can just come, you can just come and you can work on my porch outside my office. And just knock on the window and make sure I'm doing when I'm supposed to do. - Because you can't come and work with me in the house anymore. - Well, I would actually do that. If you would let the dog come sit with me outside. - Yeah, the dog will come wherever you go. - Great, so me and Anthony Bourdain, the dog people, will be outside. And we will make sure you are hard to do. - But I just imagine that I have like a cane and I'm tapping with the cane. Like an old wooden cane, not like the newer metal ones. - Well, we do have a rocking chair out there. So, we're not far. - It's all I said at the rocking chair with a cane. And basically I'm your human pomodoro timer. So, exactly. It's like, okay, now you can take a pea break. (laughing) Is that part of the pomodoro? - You've written for 30 minutes and now you can take 15 minutes off. (laughing) - Do you have a question, Andy? Do you have something? Because I have another one in the chamber. - Naomi? - Go nuts. - Now, 'cause I so remember this, I never forget. When you and Nico were on together and this was pre-wedding. But you talked about how when y'all met, you were in your hoe phase. - Yes. - Right. So, what I would love to kind of unpack, now that your husband's not here. (laughing) - That's what I mean. - Sort of where this, 'cause as you said too, you were living your life as a trans man, not telling the people around you. Like, you were beat and then it was forced, like, you know, on the public stage. - Yes, into the public. - How does that impact your dating life and social life? - Sure. So, back in New York, I had my comedy circle. And then I had my sex friend circle. - Okay. - And they didn't-- - Well, actually, that's growth, did you separate it them? 'Cause you're known comedy, a lot of people also had their sex friends circle. - Ben Diagram of that is almost a picture. - Well, but that would be intathetical to having the like, non-trans, you know. - Yes, yes, yes, yes. - So, like, you know, the, never the two shall meet. Also at the time, I was still like, UCB in a time where there were not a lot of gay people. Where was that? (laughing) Up until two years ago. (laughing) - At least in New York. - Yeah, no, that's where we came up. - Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. - But it was also kind of incestuous. Like, there were, like, I was on a gay improv team with like Matt and Boen and a whole bunch of other guys. There was a rival like gay and the improv team. And then there was like, you know, sort of like the, like the errands and the, the, the brand new squad junks, the Joshis and the Jeff Hillers and the sort of like the elite tier. The Michael Hartniss, you know. (laughing) - But there wasn't enough like where you could sleep with someone and it wouldn't. Like one of the guys on my improv team dated Julio Torres for a while. And then like Julio Torres couldn't do anyone shows anymore. (laughing) - The way that was, yes, yes, yes, yes. That's why I never, I know, that's why when I made out with Andy, I was like, if I kiss him, this is gonna be a problem. If it doesn't actually work, can you see, I had to marry as I asked. Just to see my stage. - Yeah, you guys want a team together? - No, we were, we met doing a, what was it called? It was after Harold Knight, they would just like randomly choose to do a Harold, yeah. - With some of the house members, right? So we had met there, but then we was seeing other ass shows. - Jeff Hillers is part of our meeting store. - Yeah, I was. - Jeff and Andy. - And the award winner, Jeff. - Hello, award winner. - Jeff and Andy only did the first beats together. Oh no, second beats, I did first beats. Anyway. (laughing) So does that mean when Andy dies you're gonna marry Jeff Miller? You know what and then in heaven when you all die you're gonna have like a group orgy Cruffle I was right. It's not a thrupple Niels part of it. Yeah, I think both of us were very Much like hey, I look I didn't just make out with people. Yeah, so we like there was there was something more before we even started smooching Right, but I know I was but I but you're saying those eaglet like this very conservative effort of like I you know this is this comedy something I care about this is something I'm like trying to develop I can't hook up with you and have you risk Me can't be zippin and zopping you know Can't be sipping it's op it. No sipping it's op it. No nobody's coming into this hot spot No, that's the rule. That's the rule. Okay, so okay, so you have the separate right and it's like never So it is actually this is kind of funny story so you know we have these applications gay men and I was like wait you feeling like a job application. Oh, yeah, that's how you get in You have to be approved. I forgot that grinders gay LinkedIn Grinders yeah grinders gruff growler so At the you again big fan of these competition reality shows Like the summer before ABC tried a knockoff big brother called glass house. Oh, I remember that I don't and I'm on this app and I see a guy near me and I recognize him because it's his photo like his glass house like kind of cast photo It's all like hey And we end up hooking up and then he invites me to a fake game of big brother that he is hosting During which I like end up hooking up with the bunch of people and those handful of guys and they're like kind of like larger circle Becomes my regular fuckbots for like four years Okay, so we're a community we're a community. Yeah, and this is like this is not uncommon, especially in bear world So yeah, that was sort of how but you know, it was always a very much a hook up thing very much a This is your first time hooking up with a trans guy. Let me just kind of show you the ropes You know, I'll take care of everything don't worry about it and Not if it was really laying the groundwork for sort of like a longer dating intimate relationship So I you know, I go do my spend my four months in Fiji that changed my life And then I come home and CBS is like you need to be in therapy every week. We're gonna pay for it. Find someone expensive because some things are good And so I find this great very expensive therapist who I so wish I could still be in his care But alas here if you just to break the rules and treat me while I'm in California Okay, so he was a New York therapist like so Yeah, I'm still in New York. You came back to New York. Okay. Yeah And in New York for a year before I come to LA and his like big thing is like You have all of these walls up that have like served you well, but now they're not gonna serve you well So we have to start like breaking down these walls and one thing you have to learn is how to be Open an intimate with someone and so I get that like so he's like my work Yes, it's to get you ready for like the big thing But also it's for when you move to LA that you can go and start dating He made sort of like dating as a big goal So we like we do all this work for a very long time. I and you know Also what starts happening is people start expressing interest in me even after like the outing happens So I'm going to gay bars and guys are being like oh like I've jerked off to you or you know like you know being flirty with me and Expressing an interest that I never even like imagined could exist like that, you know Outside of this like little curated safe bubble that I had had yeah So it it's sort of like I had always wanted to have my this is a reference I don't think you'll get but my Brian Kinney from Queeris folk like Finally like those doors were getting unlocked um and particularly as I like Move to LA. I was finding this like you know Fun world of like sex and dating that I had never participated in before and but I got sort of annoyed with the dating because I was on tender And so I'd moved to a new city. So I was meeting a lot of new people just like in real life And being like I am Z-guiding that I've just moved from New York to number Like having these a very surface level like just meeting new conversations And then I was going on like four days a week where I was also doing that and I was like I'm going insane Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, so I sort of You know, I sort of like stop doing the dating part and then but then you know nine months living in LA I go to the God of Wars. I mean Niko. He's very flirty. I am very flirty back. I am fully like ready to do this And then you know we end up making out in his apartment till 4am and there's just like a connection Yeah, and it like you know very quickly spiraled from that I think eight months later we We got department together eight months was it really eight months? Yeah Wait, can I ask I have two questions one guy goes hey, I've jerked off to you. What is the response to that? Yeah, what's the response? Oh really? Okay, that's not like that's so flattering. Oh, yeah, that's a great response I Was in my head. I was just like oh cool And that's why you'll never hear it any oh well also I'm situational never be in is you'll never be three vodka Red Bulls deep and like you know Kind of a loud gay bar Well One could hope you know second question during the the kind of four-year Fuck buddy quasi-pollicule Did you want a relationship or are you happy like hey? This is great. I'm really enjoying what's going on or did you know? I no part of me wanted a relationship there were a couple of guys who got kicked out because they tried to have a relationship with me Um like I remember there was this one really nice guy who was like That was there actually two there actually two guys that I just do who were like hey, you know You're really cool around me a great time like are you interested in in dating and The first guy I just said No, too because I was just being honest. I was like and I'm not I was like it's not specific to you I'm not interested in dating anybody um and then the second guy we actually did kind of date a little bit It was at the tail end and he was like maybe this could be more and I was like Survivor was airing at the time and I was like here's the thing My life is much of radically changed in two months And I don't know what it looks like on the other side of that and I can't sort of commit to anything right now Um, and we've sort of stayed in touch. I think he's still a little salty about it, but Well, you at least have sounds like you were honest though. Yeah, yeah, you stay honest with people right I wasn't trying you know I was just being like here's where I am right now So yeah, but I was having here's thing We already talked about like really complicated childhood High school years College was also not great and then finally I get to New York. I am like Comfortable and who I I am a who I you know always like desired to be I'm having so much fun. I'm doing comedy. I have like The friends I'm the best friends I've ever had in my entire life I'm getting to have a little sex on the side life is great. Yeah, life is so much fun. Yeah, I think I was when I like was like I want to go on survivor. I sign up for this uh Life coaching class called the path that was me. Yeah, oh, yeah UCB It's its own thing, but they were had like a UCB specific one and it really got me thinking like you know My life goal can't be to get on herald night We got to start like you have these bigger dreams now. We got to start going after them And that's where survivor came into it But otherwise like I'm super happy Yeah, totally yeah, totally. I was just questioning because like I have a lot of trouble Or I had historically trouble like if it if in a gray area like if it wasn't a relationship I was like I I think I need this to be something more and then the other person like I don't Well, I think in gay world like we have these shades of gray. Yeah Places, you know, yes, we have to like oh we're friends and we have sex sometimes and it's sort of uh that is a defined place um Versus I think in straight world. It's it's not it's more ill-defined Yeah, I believe I believe that yeah, I don't know. I've never participated in straight world So I I just assume you're this like Less evolved caveman asks System where men are like doing everything they can just like beat a woman over her head and drag them back to this cave Oh, that's a acurus as bit okay, he's a less evolved desperately trying not to box someone on the head I think you're right. I think you're right But okay then but now though it wasn't like oh this whole time I want to play friend. I went to relationship I would never right so so that when this when you know you and Nico do meet and it's like oh there's a connection here Now do you think it was strictly not strictly a bad way but specifically strictly ballroom that um year of intensive therapy that made you ready because it's surprising to go from like, I don't really want a relationship size. I'm cool where I'm at to eight months in saying, let's move in together. Yeah, it was definitely, it was a hundred percent to and two, you know, I like a challenge. So like the challenge from the therapist was always like, I want you to go and have like find a boyfriend and like have, I mean, I think secretly the goal, I mean, I definitely know secretly his goal was for me to get married because even though he was no longer my therapist, every time there was an article about Nico and I in the paper, he would email me. And like, we actually got married, he was very, very happy about it. Anyway, um, so while we're equipped out all those things and it's taped to his wall, I do. Yeah. Uh, where he's like, it's like my great, it's a great accomplishment for him as a therapist is taking the like, bedraggled post, you know, double survivor, like a walled off little kid getting him married eight, nine years later. Um, but yeah, I do think it was the intense therapy. And I think it was also going on all of those bad dates because I went on so many dates where I was trying so hard for it to work. And then I would date guys for three or four, three or four dates and then be like, he's just so boring. I just, yeah, I just can't. Yeah. Um, there was even a guy who I had been flirting with on Twitter for a long time, um, who lived in a state college, Pennsylvania. And we had met a couple of times in New York. And then we, you know, we were talking on the phone. And then I, um, I fell in love with that Vegas. And for a couple of days. And by the end of it, and I feel like so terrible saying this, but like the end of it, I was just so like done with them that even though I was dropping them off the airport, I had really forced myself to get out of the car and hug him. Oh, wow. So just 48 hours couldn't even make it interesting. You were like, no, not interested. I can't, I can't be. I'm not engaged in this individual. Wow. Okay. And then he had to go back to happy Valley. Just stay college, right? Yeah. No, college isn't happy about Oh, okay. Happy Valley is a, is the name of the area? Yeah, Penn State. I don't know. I went to Penn, I've gone to Penn State a couple of times. It's not, it's like in the middle of like north part of Pennsylvania. So it's in the middle of nowhere. I was like, when you said stay college, I was like, what's the mascot for Penn State? Because I was going to go to the Nittany Lion, go Nittany Lion. That's what I was trying to knit Nate, knit me. I think it's a specific type of mountain lion that is in the region. Oh, okay. So we get very specific. Yeah, yeah, we get to the time. Yeah, by the time Penn State was founded, all the normal kind of just like like the Pittsburgh panthers, all the rest kind of. So then how they had to get to like the, the the 10 Quakers. Yeah. Yeah. It's all okay. Right. So they didn't really drill down. They didn't drill down. Okay. Well, I mean, that's all college mascots really. Is there all like, you know, weird niche things? I didn't even know that I thought they were literally like all like go lions. And then I also like, and then the one thing I was knitting lions. And the Ohio State Buckais, the Michigan Wolverines, the Oklahoma suitors, and the Michigan Wolverines are actually Wolverine from the X-Men, correct? Yeah. Yeah. That's why they have blue and gold as their color. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. So this actually makes more sense to me. Because like in going on a whole bunch of dates in a way, yeah, you're like, you meet a whole bunch of people and kind of like, Oh, you're getting a pretty good sense. Okay, this is what I like this what I don't like this is what I'm looking for this what are boring the fuck out of boring. So that when you meet Nico, it's not simply right. So when like there is this connection and I think about them all the time and I'm like, you know, getting my chores done early so that we can like hang out like, oh my God, that's cute. Yeah. So it very, if we have these, I think it was like three or four weeks in in LA where we were seeing each other. And then we both had to go to New York, I do go to New York to get my glad award. And then he was going to New York for the upfronts. And we crossed over for like this like magical 36 hours where it was just like clearly like we are crazy in love with each other. We like smoked a joint. It's a SpongeBob square pants, the musical. And like, I he'd never been up like the TKTS stairs, it can timesquare and so I like took them up. And we were just like, it was just clearly. Yeah. So it did it laid the groundwork for for this like, you know, wonderful man who I would ultimately marry was the guy who left his wife and newborn child for Ariana Grande in the SpongeBob musical at the time. He was, he's been slater. Okay. It wasn't good. Was he good? I don't know anything about it. He's fantastic. Wow. He's got the goods. He's got the goods. Okay. That's good. Not not to be a loving partner and father. But I was actually we were a dinner last night with handful of friends at Pacha on Laurel Canyon. Okay. And we were talking about we were talking about who is the person that if they were like, they did what Ariana did. It was like, I, you know, come, come and date me. Who was the person you would blow up your life for? Do you have an answer that you want to share on the I know. Did you? Or like how many other couples were there? Did they all have there were two other couples? Everyone named one. And I, I was sweet and I said, Nico Santos and the Nico was like, Oh, give a real answer. Oh my God. Did you feel ready to help somebody? Yes. I thought you were about to ask if I had a person that I would, I'm like, I'm not blowing up this for anything. That's how I felt. Exactly. There are people that like, if they wanted to like fuck and like hang out for a week, I would do that. But I wouldn't like that is also built into our relationship. It would more be like, Oh my God, Nico, look who I brought home, you know, for both of us. I wouldn't even watch the movie blow up. And we will be back after this. And we're back with Zeke Smith here to help you handle your skin, though, honey, I think we all want to know the name of the therapist that Zeke went to for a year who was so expensive it led to marriage. We all need somebody who's that good. Look, they said they were right. They're like, go find someone who's expensive because that means they're good. And look, he fixed me. I'll say to someone told me, so a bit, you know, they show couples therapy on showtime. Yeah, we started. We own the interstate copy right on the name, but we can't fight. Yeah, no, we can't fight showtime. But the woman, there's a therapist who everyone's obsessed with. Oh, no, her name is all now something like that's like a bone, right? I don't know. Oh, all of LNA is the bone, but she's O LNA, I think, I mean, Olga, look her up. The point is, so apparently she is like $750 an hour. Oh, damn. And she was like that, even I think before the show. But Laura knows obviously she's because she's like, the one everyone really likes, you know, on that. And so I didn't even know what therapist could put it like apparently, yes, or not doctor or not. See, I just hear these things with a great fine. But you know, I did remember seven 50. Wow, wow, wow, I was like, I didn't know therapists could do that. And apparently yes, like, because they kind of are like allegedly, what I heard was the thinking is they're only spit, they believe that someone is only spending that if they're really trying to get to work. And it's going to be focused like that. And so and I was like, what a just rich and what a talk? You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, yeah, that's really I think I don't really, I don't know, it is if you if you have a limited amount of funds, sure, 750 might show your dedication. But right, but that's going to show your dedication to like maybe 10 sessions. Right? If you have saved up and you are, yeah, that's I'm saying, if you have that money, it's like, who you know, who does outside of, you know, the, uh, well, the ruling elite at this point, but like, yeah, but if you're the ruling elite, you could just go in and and and Tony soprano went up and talk bullshit for six years and still be a monster, right? That's true. If anything, if anything, I'll say this, but those people should subsidize the people with less funds, who do really want to be sure they should do like $300 would be like, that is a big yes, but here's my plan. This is my plan. If you are a therapist that serves the ruling elite, your price per session is $12 million. $12 million, until those people no longer have any money. Okay. And in reducing the amount of money that the ruling elite have, you are now, they are going to be more mentally well, right? That money alienates them from real life. And therefore they become psychos. That's part of it. Here's the problem though, then the therapists have all the money. And while they reduce therapists are, they think they do good work with other people. They're all crazy themselves. And I don't know that I trust them with that much money. They have to redistribute it. So it can't be, it goes, you know, they, they get, you're right, those eat, I think you're right. They get compensated for their time, right? And then they get to pay their mortgage or whatever little things they need, right? But then the money goes to a redistribution program to the working class. I'm running on this mayor, I'm announcing it right now, mayor of LA, Karen Bass, watch out, watch out Karen this, this new program that redistributes the money. Well, here's my other question is, is this somehow court mandated therapy? Because how do we get them to continue to go to therapy? You're right. You have to be. It's a lot. Okay, so here's what we, here's the first thing. Why do we have to go through therapists? Why can't there just be a city tax on wealth above a certain amount of money? Sure, sure. Want them to reintegrate into society and be useful and be not really. Well, I think they're going to be here. I say she learned how to talk to people again and how to be nice to a waiter. They need to session. Okay, so we need a new prop prop 77 whatever right that will mandate therapy for the rule elite yep yep yep we're that will force a redistributive pro uh monetary program I'm in will you tell this to the Glad board see if you see if they can do some like research and get some feedback for people on the ground yeah this could really work this very complicated plan sure um how much are you donating the class get me to do that work for you okay we have to help someone we've at least one person please want purse we get questions from all over we get questions from instagram direct message of course that's at couples therapy pod on instagram we get questions from Gmail couples therapy pod at gmail.com and I'll say this what you can do in the Gmail if you don't want to write it you can send us a three-minute or less voice note that you've attached that's possible I like those what else do we have Naomi voice mail which is three two three five two four seven eight three nine come through handy we have a three-minute limit okay as Andy said with the voice note so I want you to give us your pronouns the log line okay give us that question just write in tight now seek you know you know how I am seek okay I know uh do you have a style guide for your own podcast there's not just for other people's advice podcast okay um it is we did hold on Naomi did create the style guide for ask rana right and then I was like why don't we have one and then we got pretty strict and people didn't want to send in post so then we gave up so yeah but you know we still have parameters and that's just for also for you as much as for us because if you get cut off then we can't answer your question help us help you help us help you okay this one this is a a family question okay you want to do that first you want to do this maybe I don't know I haven't heard them we don't listen to them in advance eat all right okay do you want to do that one okay I think because it has to do with families okay family so here we go okay hi and the and Naomi and lovely lovely guest I am calling with a sort of what would you do uh question that is financial my partner and I both have student loans and we're both working like in our first year of working our full-time jobs at a school and we both have student loans that are obtainable to pay off I'd say within the next year um but I was just on the phone with my mother who was on the phone with my partner's mother uh who informed me that my partner's father would be willing to write a check for the amount of my partner's student loans after they've been paid off so now my question is this was told to me in confidence by my mother who was told him confidence by my partner's mother so would it be wrong of me to tell my partner that like we should really walk in and pay these student loans um I tell my partner pretty much everything so it feels weird to know something that would you know positively impact our lives and not tell them but also I'm not supposed to have this information so what would you do also I use sheer pronouns my partner uses say them pronouns um we don't make that much money um but my partner has a side hustle and I get like a weekly bonus type situation so I think if we really like hunkered down we could both pay off our student loans within the next year so what do you think should I tell my partner that there's now like very tangible motivation for us to do this or should I keep this secret um and not tell them thank you so much can I just jump in with something and then Zee we're gonna go to you because we always go to the guest first I just want to immediately if the father of the partner is financially comfortable enough to be able to cut them a check just do it pay off the fucking student loan for them for your child yes well maybe it's like I want you to to accomplish this on your own and then you get the reward right I know I get that I think there's also a version to it just in terms of you know something about interest right now interest is a bitch where it's like that's how kids you if the interest I know if the parent would pay it off and then be like okay now you pay me uh you know I mean like you pay me it's like it's like it's like but not all parents no Andy not all parents are he just give it I mean granted we wish we wish but the information in the call was the father of the partner is going to cut a check after the their the low-wit fully pay yeah so they have the money I'm sorry but this is this is not our our cause for concern right uh I want to talk to the father now be like what do you do what do you do with your child the the future is just opening up into absolute hell just pay off their loan if you have the money just let them live some fun have let them have fun let your kid have fun this is not helping the collar in I know exactly ZZZ be help help us I'm what are the fathers listening what do you think what do you think well so it's challenging right because you have information that you're not supposed to have but I think here's here's well I'll say this off top you would very happy if in a year from now you do not have any more student debt um there are people who have that for decades I think you must have not a ton of student debt which is great I think encouraging you and your partner to have a financial goal of paying off that debt within a year or within you know 18 months I think that's a fantastic goal and I think you know you're clearly young whether or not this partnership is going to learn you know go you know how long term I think whether or not you both can commit to this goal and be honest with each other about how much you're paying off is a really great training ground to see if you are the type of people who is going to have a post collegiate successful long term relationship and that's good see you should be a therapist um they whether or not you tell them about this like check their father here's the thing may or may not write because you the dad has told their mom their mom has told your mom and your mom has told you so you don't have like exactly what the details are what are the other strings attached if this money is still going to exist in a year I think it would be one thing if the dad told you directly and so you had like you had direct confirmation but you don't exactly know what it is because it's been you know telephone down to you yeah so I would maybe I would maybe hold off on because you don't want to tell your partner for their own sake you don't want to be like well your dad's going to write you a check for X amount of dollars right when you get your loans all paid off if that's not exactly what the dad intends to do or if the dad would just sort of like shoot and shit or whatever it is um so I think is a good goal together as a couple but maybe hold off on revealing the information about the dad and the check huh yes I have a I have an alternate position on this sure I think you should tell them with the caveat that ZEG you laid out which is like it's kind of a game of telephone where I got this information and then parentheses this is I have a reason why I'm saying this and I'll say at the end of this and parentheses and then figure out a way to pay off the student loans as quickly as possible without it hurting your lives like don't you know go down to like hey we're having bread and butter for dinner right right yeah in order to pay the the student loans off right give yourself a reasonable time frame and give yourself a couple of months extra on the sale yeah you know yeah and then do that here's the thing I'm worried about there's an AI bubble currently that is just growing and growing and growing and at the moment I just saw a report this morning where is taking on some of the same characteristics as the 2008 crash the bubble that the real estate bubble that bird yeah specifically I mean literally the same kind of thing where they're using the kind of like weird financial instruments to finance the building of data centers which is the same thing that happened with the real estate market where things are leverage fund leverage fund leverage fund leverage and they break it up into like weird tranches they break the the mortgages and stuff up and then they sell them it but they're actually and they rate them high but really they're so fine yeah yeah it's just horseshit kind of stuff that's what led to the market crash in 2008 it's going to probably happen at some time and then things are gonna get very dicey financially I know it ruins a lot of people's retirement funds if they have their funds in the stock market whatever else so what I'm saying is if you can kind of get your financial shit and order in the next couple years or who you know who knows when this stuff is going and maybe there will be something that'll happen that will alleviate it I don't know I can't tell the future I just know that there's some kind of dangerous shit that's on the horizon and if you can get your financial shit in order and then maybe you know maybe daddy cuts a check right, maybe get an order early enough and he cuts a check where maybe everything crashes and he's like, I no longer have the cash to give you guys. Right, right, right. Along the lines of in favor of, I mean, I think this is a good goal regardless of tell, don't tell. But I think there's also a world where you mention it to your partner and your partner doesn't be like, Hey, dad, I heard mom told other mom told partner told me that you're going to write me a check. That was like, Hey, I need, I'm thinking about my financial future and, you know, like paying these loans off and like financial responsibility and starting, you know, whether or not I should start a Roth IRA, like whatever it is. Having a sort of like, Hey, dad, let's talk about the financial future and maybe dad brings it up on his own. That's an option too. I mean, cause here's, here's one thing is, cause okay, I've let you to discuss, okay? But my first and foremost question is this, what the hell these mommas talking? I said, what is my mom talking? It's like, have y'all been together since y'all were 12 and that's like family friends and everybody talking like this about like loans like because someone was like each other. Our parents are, they don't be keeky and like they don't be keeky, but they ask after each other a lot. They, yes, but they like each other. We on the phone talking about y'all and y'all loans and then how dad said, and then I said to them and they said to this and this and this and this and that. I would bet 100% I would bet 100% that we as would talk to Marty all the time. I bet they would be pals. Oh, Lord, I don't know. I don't know. But I was like, so my first thing is like, because the, but then my next thing too is like, I think, you know, and this can be hard to do, but I think it's worth doing because that's how you the thing I do take issue with. Don't tell me something about my partner and then tell it, just where to seek receipt. Yeah. Yeah. And that's something that I think your parent has to know me like, hey, hey, mom, I'm a grown adult now in this relationship and, you know, we are a team, me and my partner. So I don't withhold things from them. I don't, you know, keep secrets from them on behalf of somebody else. And that's something like, hey, I'm just going to let y'all know now. So you can have all the keys you want. You can come and sell me stuff, but I will always tell them. Oh, yeah. Where my friends, that's what it is. And part of it is just a long journey of this relationship and, you know, being mature. And together's like, that's something you got a nippin' in the boot or what? When my friends tell me something in confidence, they're like, well, obviously, you'll tell me. Yeah, that's it. That's what literally is what it is to tell one of us something. Not always, not always. Not always. Obviously, there's like something about the other person. Exactly. Right? Because like if I have long term friends and they want to talk to me about, and expect me to keep their confidence about whatever it is. Sure. There's something personal. Yeah. Sure. That's about them and is not about Nico. Exactly. Exactly. And it's like, don't tell Nico something that pertains to his financial future. It's like, what? You're gonna need to be like, no, I'm going to have a conversation. So I think that's also, so this question of that is like, yes, I agree. It's like, I would say, like, tell your partner. But as you said, but it's like, hey, so your mom told my mom, you know, who hurt, like, you know, but your mom is saying your dad said this. So with the caveat that that's the layer of telephone, maybe you might want to have a conversation with your dad or you like kind of bring it up and see what he says, you know, and it's like just to kind of open that up. But yeah, I say, no, we're not keeping secrets. We're not keeping secrets. We're not playing those games. You know, we keep secrets if the truth will be destructive in a way that cannot be rebuilt as my theory, right? But something like that is like, no, it's like, I also just don't want these moms talking like this. I think I need you to stop. I'm talking to me. Best way to have a pro. Why do I have a problem with the moms talking? These moms are out here planning their lives. And I definitely see this much more amongst like my buddy PJ, my straight buddy PJ and his wife. That's right PJ. That's where I wear it. He's wonderful. He's a best man away wedding. Anyway, in his wife, they have two kids and both of the parents live within 15 minutes, you know, of where they live and do a lot of childcare together. So to me, it makes sense that both of their moms communicate with one another because they're having joint family events. They're spending a lot of time together. They're looking out sometimes like, you know, the because he has, they were actually, they both have siblings who have kids who are similar age. So sometimes it's not just their kids. They're looking after it. It's like the other kids. So I'm like, this makes sense to me why these in laws have to have a relationship, you know, and do need to communicate with one another and do need to be able to like get along. Whereas like my mom and Nico's mom, they don't need to have any kind of relationship. You know, no need for them to talk. Well, yeah, it's like, and not that I'm saying that they shouldn't be, you want people to be cool, right? You know, totally. Yeah, I just think, you know, I think of anything you just want to nip in the bud, this idea that I think this is so funny. No, not the conversation, not the pair's talking, but like, oh, mom, you can't be out here like telling secrets about us. And then it's like, you tell one of us, but don't tell the other person, I told it, no, we're not doing these little cafeteria games. It's like, we are as much as it might be hard for you parents to see us as like autonomous adults in a relationship. That's what we are. And we have each other's backs and we communicate with each other openly. That's our dining. I really thought your stalking horse was, why are these moms stalking? No. But secret don't tell. It's like, no, we're not doing that. Sure, yes, I agree. We're not doing that. We're not doing it. Zeke, we're not doing that. We're not doing that, Zeke. No, ma'am, no, ma'am. Zeke, do you have time for another? You can say no. Yeah, I got all the time. Great. Beautiful. Here we go. I, my pronouns are she/her and my friends or she/her. This is about a friend break up. So it's been an embarrassing amount of time since I've had my job and it's just been, or lost my job and it's just been really challenging. And probably one of the most challenging phases of my life. You know, I've seen like a lot of friends not showing up in which ways which I was hoping they would. But I think what really hurt the most was my best friend from college. She's like the closest person in my life. But most of my relationship has been long distance because right after college, we've been different ways and just recently when I lost my job, she actually moved back to her home country. So she's now living abroad back home. And it's just in hard because you know, she hasn't really been checking in on me. But we haven't talked. We talk like every weekend during the pandemic. And the times that we have talked in the past like months, it's been really like a, I just been like, you know, I just very negative and I think it's, you know, a got to her point. I, I'm not sure recently, you know, that it really hurt that you haven't messaged me or reached out. This is in like the worst phase of my life. And she messaged me, say that the past few times, I've been in a really negative head state and that it seems that I need, you know, more than just a friend to help me right now and that she can't be there and that I should have friends who are there. And she doesn't necessarily break up with me like send break up, but I felt like it was, you know, and I don't want to lose this person and I know I'm like, I'm going to therapy. I'm doing everything I can, but it's just, you know, hard that she's not there for those tough times because she's done this before for another, you know, like challenging pace of my life, not anything close to this, but anyways, I just don't, I don't want to like completely cut her off or I don't know. I don't know how to like give her space or, you know, I'm telling other people to for those like, you know, just like kind of moments of joy and like just like, just like, just chatting and stuff and just like talking about things that don't have to do with like, you know, having a job. So anyways, just looking for advice on how to, I guess, you know, how the friend could be this person, but not scare them off. Anyway, thank you so much for your show and I'll go if I see you. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry about the loss of your job. You know, I know it's tough in these streets. So you know, I'm saying it, and especially depending on what your job was and what you want to be doing, it can also connect to a loss of identity and kind of feeling like, you know, yeah, but also the sorry was also about like the friend, but yeah, let's, yeah, Zee, what do you think? What do you think? Sure. No, I also want to iterate. I'm so sorry about your job. I know it's, this is like, I have a handful of friends who have been unemployed for a while and who have Emmy Awards and who have, you know, great credentials and edge, and it's just, it's such a hard time to find a job. And I think that like makes the loss of a job even worse is that it just seems like it's so hard to get your footing to just even get an interview. I, so my perspective might be a little different from y'all's name and Andy because I have been the friend who moved away in this equation. So from, I'll say a little bit about that. So I had a friend who was my best friend and we had a breakup and part of it was because she was having a really hard time. She was back in New York, I was in LA. It's the pandemic early days. She moved in with a girlfriend before the pandemic like three, like two months in the pandemic, like March, April. The girlfriend breaks up and is like, I want, I need you to get out. Oh wow. Friend didn't see it coming so challenging for so many reasons and so she's having a really hard time and we were talking for like two or three hours a day about, you know, how hard her life is right now. Simultaneous to this, my husband's stepfather was one of the first like a thousand Americans to die of COVID and we had just done a really hard thing with like, you know, his family his mother also had COVID, but she didn't have to be hospitalized and it was like no one can go to the hospital and respirators, no one gets to say goodbye and like all this stuff. And so I really wanted to be there for my best friend while also being there for my husband and also like the world's in the plea cast and I hadn't been taking care of myself and really let my, I was drinking too much, I was smoking like, there was a really like eye, I was gaining all this weight like I wasn't taking care of myself because I was trying to take care of everybody else and then when my friend had another problem, there was a death in her family, I just couldn't be there for the way and that she expected me to because I was in such a really dark and difficult place but also because she was going through so much I didn't want to put that on her. So, I don't know how hard what you were dealing with. Right. So, what I just want to put out the possibility that there, that like there may be things going on in your friend's life. I don't know why she moved back to her home country. I don't know if there's family obligations but like there might just be a lot of stuff going on in her life where even though she loves you, she can't take on the emotional burden of being there for you in this hard time. And so, it might just mean you do have to rely on other people and you do have to give her a little bit of space and maybe the next time you try to engage with her, try to make things about her, which I know feels really hard because your whole world feels like it's collapsing. So, I don't know that like your situation is the same as my situation. I just wanted to provide that perspective of like, I lost a friendship because I was trying to be there for everybody and it wasn't there for myself and by the time she needed me again, I was like, in such a bad place that I couldn't be there and that really hurt her understandably and that sort of ended the friendship. So, if the long term maintenance of this friendship is what you desire, it might mean sort of taking a step back and inquiring about her or just like the next time you have a call, it's like you talk about stupid stuff. The housewives are like, whatever it is that you have to gather. But maybe just giving her a little space. Damn, see? I was immediately about to attack the friend and be like, the friend is shitty. And it could be the friend is shitty. It could be. And here's my context clues from the call. Why I think my hypothesis might be closer with respect is that they said this happened before. Okay, and this is what I was going to pick it back on because I also agree with you, Zeeq, and I agree with what you're saying, Andy. So, boys, please stop fighting. (laughing) No, because I agree, because I love the same thing. Because I'm like, two things, a few things pinged me, right? Which is one when, when she says, well, during lockdown, we would talk every week. We cannot compare lockdown life to life now. To this. We all had a lot more time. The way I was Marco Polo in my bitches. Okay, I was Marco Polo in every-- I did you Marco Polo from the toilet because I found that I did that quite often. (laughing) I won't answer a text from the toilet. I don't want anyone to know where I am or what's going on or the possibility that-- Do you tell people the location when you're texting them? You're like, I am on the toilet right now. I am at the grocery store right now. Never, never. But he doesn't even want to think about-- I'm a man in the wind. But so, I think we can't hold those comparisons. But then I also thought, too, you know, somebody moving back home and that being abroad, even if it's back home, any place you haven't been for a long time, any place you have to sort of start over is going to be an adjustment. And adjustments are always hard, even if it's like, oh yeah, you know, I love everybody here and I like where I live. It still takes time to kind of get your feet under you. So I don't know how long she has been gone, how long it's taken, you know? Like, you know, if it's been a year or two, it's like, okay, well, I don't know if you can say it's about, you know, the time it takes to move. But if it's, you know, six months, and you know, this person is still just sort of like, okay, I'm back home and dealing with, like, living with family or just being close in the way responsibilities change. I agree with you, Zika's like, she could be going through something, you know? But then also, I heard what you heard too, Andy, which is like, she's been like this before, to which I say, this may not be a friend for the real shit. Yeah, 'cause that's very true. I have plenty of friends who are not for the real shit. And unfortunately, you only find out when you attempt to go there with them and they push back, right? Or change the subject. Or say, you've been very negative and I can't. Yeah, what it's like. I can't stand, no one's ever said that to me. But I hear that so much in Los Angeles. Yeah, people like Good Vibes only kind of is, you know, such a, and it's all about like being chill. I also think because it's particularly where we're all in an industry where I think people want to seem cool and successful. And so complaining goes against that. By the way, you act like stuff is a real thing. I feel like all the people in the industry, all they do is come to my house and complain about the industry. Well, that's different. That's a safe space. Yeah, that's a safe space that you've created. By the way, I'm very surprised. Very few people have said you're too negative. I'm very surprised they have not, I'm very surprised people have not said you're too negative to me. Oh, to you? Well, it means, I'm very surprised. It's not that you're, you're not like negative, but you're sort of like the like peanut's character that walks around with like a little cloud over them all the time. You're not like a negative person, but you kind of have like a doom and gloom energy. Like it's sort of the way that too, like a pool party when it's 95 degrees, you wear like woolen pants and a full jacket. What I'm wearing right now for this podcast recording. You got to cover up. That's just style. He said, I will not get this SPF rays on me. But you know, it's beautiful. You invite us anyway. I enjoy your company. Let the straight man be in his woolen pants. They're not woolen. They're not woolen. They're not woolen. They're sweat. But they're sweat. They're sweat from all maybe. But no, but I'm saying, like there are people where it's like, and it sounds like this friend of yours may not be the kind of person who can help you when you own struggle street. Or she can't help you for a long time. It's like, okay, you can maybe give, you know, have one phone call. And it's like she's going to be like, I'm kind of done with that. There are people like that. And it's like, and the question is, are you okay with that? And I used to very much be not, not. I'm the kind of person where it's like, you know what I mean? Like if you can't handle me when I'm struggling, you don't deserve me when I'm fun. And it's like, and now I've kind of realized that there is value in the people who you can't go there with. Or like, I have some friends right now where like, they're going through it. And I could, you know, like, it's not for them me to talk to them about what I'm going through. But I actually am fine with that. Because they're times where I go, oh, I'm in my head. Let me go talk to somebody and make it not about me for a little bit. And that actually, in some ways, can make me feel better. You know, it's like to be of service to think not about everything that's like so hard in my life. And it's like, and that person's like, I'm not asking for them to tell, you know, ask me about me or do all this. And I'm like, that's, you know, and it depends. So it's like right now, you're in it. You're in it. You know people who are going to lift you up. Because you're struggling right now. You lost your job. Life is bad, meaning even apart from losing your job. So you're struggling right now. So you need friends who can lift you up. Yeah. I also told you she can't. I want to offer a metaphor that they use on a different advice podcast that I listen to. I don't like that. I don't need you promoting anything else. Don't say the name of it. I won't. And honestly, it's more of a podcast that Nico listens to. So I listen to it when he plays in the car. Okay. Well, so the idea is that like, think of your, your friends. They give your life as a theater. And you are on stage and your bestest besties. They are in front row orchestra. And then you have friends who you really like, but maybe they're in the like obstructed view side orchestras. Right. And then there are people who you just need. They just need to be a little bit distant. So they're in the mezzanine. And then there are the people who are in the balcony. And then the people who are in the balcony. And then the people who bought the streaming tickets. So they're watching at home. Yeah. Exactly. Right. But you don't enter. They can watch you, but you don't interact with them. Yeah. But it's to start thinking about like, who are your friends and what are like your boundaries with them, their boundaries with you, and what role do they play in your life? And people in the theater can be reset. So if someone was a front row orchestra person, they can be sat to an obstructed view left side orchestra back of the theater. Yeah. So it's like, they're still in the orchestra, right? But they don't get the full picture. They don't get the full you. Anyway, I think this metaphor is very helpful for me. No, I like it. And thinking about friendship. And so I wanted to impart it to you as well. Well, I will say something I'm dealing, I deal with though, just, and this is more of me asking just questions and bias now. I'm turning the tables. I think what I've been dealing with lately is I am afraid to let people in. Yeah. So that for instance, like, you know, especially as I get over, I'm like, okay, well, I have the friends I have. Like, I reached out to a friend. a month ago and we're just, and I haven't seen him in over a year. And it wasn't about him, but it was like other stuff with me. And then finally I texted him, was like, this is everything going on in my life, you know, kind of like whatever. And then he was, you know, and he was like, you know, and he was like very nice and open about it. But it's like, I get, I was kind of trained is like, if you don't have anything nice, I say don't say anything at all. And this doesn't mean just kind words. That also means like if you're not in a good mood, if you're not in a pleasant fun person. Sorry, the person that you texted, you said they were nice and open about it, but did you feel like they heard you and they were going, Oh totally. Now it's back in my court to be like, let's get together. Oh, okay. So that's for this. And it was okay. Well, sometimes you have to do that. You have to be like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I couldn't answer your email for 10 days. This is what was going on. Yes. Right. But like sometimes when it's going on and you're in the thick of it, you're not in a place to respond well. But then I know, but then I also feel like sometimes I, I guess what I feel is because I'm like, you know, one thing I say all the time is, you know, if he we all got pain, right? So I'm like, everybody's struggling. Everybody's got something going on. Nobody wants to hear my shit. But then I wonder if that same thinking is what keeps me from being closer with more people. Well, I think it's just about like knowing the time in the place and the situation to share those things. So no, is it in the pool surrounded by 20 of your closest friends? Well, I mean, we do get a lot of shit shared in that pool. (laughing) By the way, 10 days, 10 days. You know, it only took three days for Jesus to come back. Wow. Well, and Jesus, I am not. (laughing) Growing up in Oklahoma, there was this church. I think it's called like Victory Harvest Church. And Mary Lou Retten, who was a famous Olympic general, Jimis in the 80s. She got a perfect 10 on her vault until she did commercial for this church. And I always say, I always quote it. She says, "I may have got a perfect 10, but I'm not a perfect person." Beautiful Mary Lou. So that's what I say. I say, "Well, I may have got a perfect 10, but I'm not a perfect person." Only Jesus is perfect. (laughing) Oh my God, Zeeck. Zeeck, Zeeck, Zeeck. Thank you so much for coming to the line. Thanks for having me. Of course. Do you, I mean, you really came through with the advice? You came through with the layers of love. Say each. Say. Say. Just not just something you can crisp up and put on your pasta. It's all about-- Exactly. You can also use it to roast a turkey. Well, yes. Mm, and I know that's what you're doing. I know you're roasted in turkeys. Yeah, well, when we've got, we've got like 30 of my in-laws coming for Thanksgiving. So we do a lot. That's horrible. You're 30 people in one meal. I'm like, Jesus, how you gonna make all that? I mean, you're probably still. Well, I make sort of like all the, like Thanksgiving traditional foods, and then they bring like all the Filipino food. Okay, so it'll bring some stuff. Okay, so it's okay. So I'm only responsible for feeding all 30 of them. But that's still it, but no, but you have to have food for 30. You have to make enough Thanksgiving food so everyone can have a little something. Sure, but not so that it is the primary thing that they can do. Not like 30 full plates of Thanksgiving food, you know. How many turkeys is that for 30? It's usually about one big 20 pounder. Oh, okay. Okay, good to know. Well, good to know you guys. I hope this helped you too. We should plan your Thanksgiving spreads. I'm also here for Thanksgiving advice. I'm a Thanksgiving expert. So any of you want to reach out to me, add Zika Chief on Instagram. Zika's also like also dad vibes if you need help. 'Cause Zika has offered to help us with our heating situation in the backyard. But the lot has to happen. We need to trim a tree first. A lot of things need to, we've discovered a lot has to happen. Back here. Yeah, well I just put up my two Christmas trees and decorated them. So any holiday advice. Yeah, we have like all send pictures. We have like a curated nice one and then we have like a goofy woman. It's all food. I'm gonna put this out there. Listers, if you have any holiday questions, Thanksgiving or the holidays. We also do new comments. Send in those Zika you come back and we'll answer holiday questions. Because you know, we do our special New Year's where we celebrate New Year's on Easter's time. So everyone is home and is bed by 10.30. Well, that's how I knew Nico and Zika were real for me. So these are friends of my alley. Okay, and afternoon hang to be 9 PM to be in bed. On New Year's Eve by 10. I never wanted to be out late. Even when I was young, I never wanted to be out late. It's great he missed all the drunk drivers. Yep, you know, exactly. All the craziness on the roads, and then you start off the New Year rest. Ready to go. And ready. And you know, was I'm ready to go eat some. Yep, I'm sorry, I kept you on the call. No, apologize, this is everything I needed. Never a problem. Perfection. You're perfect. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so are you listening. We'll see you next week. Bye. Bye. [MUSIC PLAYING]