Zack Snyder, Vol. IV

I forget the woman who wrote the review but it was basically like I'm sure Zack Snyder every time he tells cut he like right no and I'm just like that's awesome like that is an awesome like first of all my kids are reading this stuff prepare your ears humans happy sad confused begins hey guys it's Josh welcome to another edition of happy sad confused coming at you once again from the Toronto International Film Festival this time with the one and only Zack Snyder hey guys thanks as always for checking out the podcast remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube on Spotify on whatever podcast platform you are using this is our second episode coming at you out of Toronto if you haven't caught up with our Gary Oldman conversation that I recorded in front of a live audience please do so an absolute legend and a great great chat this is kind of like I mean a really interesting companion piece who would have expected of all filmmakers to like Zack Snyder to come to a film festival with an independent film but that is where he is at this is a passion project he is talking about it is his new film The Last Photograph um and look all props to Zack who is of course a regular on happy second views this is his fourth time on the show um and he is always a great conversation honest to a fault perhaps for his uh you know his reputation which can um it can get him into trouble I guess just in terms of like just how honest he is about criticism and intention and all of that he is as we all know um a lightning rod always has been always will be that is the nature and to contextualize this a little bit if you haven't seen the headlines his film is um is called The Last Photograph it is kind of a down and dirty Zack Snyder film he defeated himself he was the camera operator independently financed this is a passion project that's been in the works for over two decades tells the story of two men one kind of lost soul photographer one who is out for some kind of Redemption Revenge after a horrible tragedy befalls some of his family members uh and they kind of go on this like Heart of Darkness apocalypse now-esque Adventure Journey um it is violent it is sexual it is divisive as all Zack Snyder films are um as we recorded our conversation it was just hours after the big premiere the night before at Toronto first time it's ever been seen in front of an audience I was there and look the reviews are all over the place and we talk about it in this conversation look it up for yourself um it is loved by the Snyder heads it is hated by critics it somewhere in between it falls I respect Zack for who he is and the way he carries himself and look some of his films are more for me than others but I do respect always him being true to himself and that certainly is what the last photograph is we don't know where this is going to end up yet as we record this it is up for you know sale for distribution I'm sure it will land somewhere it will find an appropriate home um but this is an interesting conversation because it kind of captures a moment in time as Zack was literally like still like reading the reviews and the reception and kind of laughing about you know the divisiveness of it all but also knowing this kind of goes with the territory for him um quick note on the production of this this was a shot here in my my sad little hotel room if you're watching this in Toronto we unfortunately had some major audio problems that we didn't discover until afterwards luckily we had some backup audio recording I don't even actually know the quality of it as I record this intro I hope it's not too crappy but I know it will be usable I know it will be good enough to listen to um but my apologies because it's uh it's certainly not up to our usual standards here at happy to say I confused and uh don't worry the aesthetic will improve once I get back home to New York and we're back in the home studio I promise you but look when you can get Gary Oldman and Zack Snyder at a film festival you do it um remember as always check out our patreon patreon.com happy to say I confused for early access discount codes access to our live events all sorts of fun stuff I should also mention in this conversation while we talk a lot about last photograph of course we talk about other things we talk about 300 and its 20th anniversary we talk about the 300 prequel series that he's working on about Escape from New York which he's going to be directing I think next um we talk about some superhero stuff needless to say of course we do um this will as always generate headlines I'm sure I always appreciate Zach's uh willingness to be as I said Frank and open um and good humored and good natured he is um he's always welcome on this podcast so I know you guys are going to dig this check it out and uh I'm not sure when you'll be able to see the last photograph but now you'll know a little bit more about what all of us is about after this conversation enjoy Zach should we do this let's go here we go we're in Toronto volume four of happy second fuse with Zack Snyder that's good to see you man it's good to see you thanks for having me this uh what day is it Monday morning it's a lot look you're coming off of hours after your world premiere of the last photograph I was there congratulations thank you uh look it's uh it's a lot to process any kind of debut putting yourself out there is always a big thing yeah and this is a new experience uh for a number of reasons we'll get to just first of all how you feeling man I mean like I feel good I feel good actually um I feel good I think that the it's it's um I guess you know at this point like the predictable discourse around my my what I do I guess is very it's like a very palatable thing like the lines are clearly drawn you know which I think is really interesting and I I think in a lot of ways maybe because of Netflix and because you know the films on Netflix are a little bit kind of like they exist in a bubble like you can't really like they're kind of impenetrable right you could talk about them all day and like no it doesn't make a difference you know what I mean it's like a it's an ecosystem that kind of it it feeds on itself people don't really when you go on Netflix you like oh let's say it's a space movie Rubble Moon child watch that you know like there's no like you know there's no easy ball yeah it's just like yeah it is what it is yeah sure that's fine um and so uh but it's just interesting to sort of be like in the trenches with a movie um especially a movie like this it's kind of tiny and um you know we kind of it's a lot of yes it's a tone poem and so yeah that that description right there is going to evoke like right like oh here's pretentious Zach he's going exactly yeah yeah exactly well it's also the context like to set the scene we're at the Toronto International Film Festival sure you are not like historically the film festival guy you are right I've never been to a film festival before well I was at a film festival we were into the uh we took 300 you're familiar with that I've heard of it yeah yeah we took the movie we took 300 to it's out it's about three it's a it's not a math hobby it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a beautiful mind yeah pretty cool yeah yeah um but uh we took that to the Berlin Film Festival and there was a huge it kind of actually turned me off the film festivals because there was a massive like there was like this whole thing about like the movies like fascist and right and and there's like everybody walked out and booed the movie and it was like this huge thing we were like ah what the happened I got a screen again everyone's doing it and then all of a sudden literally we took it and it was like just a complete disaster we thought like the movie was doa and um we had a press conference and all the like German press was asking me why what's it like to be a fascist filmmaker and I was just like what what has happened I remember one of the great comments was are you pro-gay or pro uh NRA that was the choice yeah those are my two and I go look I gotta be honest I'm a little bit of both do you feel like exposed when you're like at a premiere and like something especially like this that is a passion project that is something that you did on your own terms like you know the truth is it's constant it's not um you know it's a con the discourse around the movies and the choices and the you know whether it be Justice League or yeah anything I'm doing the the discourse is like for me is day on the daily so it's um so you're a little immune to it maybe I'm a slightly immune to it but it's interesting I I'm fascinated by it in some ways too like I saw this one review of the movie was like you Zack Snyder I want to kill you and yet you still came to my interview and I thought that was I was like you know what that's awesome haven't seen the movie yet preemptive preemptive you know what that's awesome haven't seen the movie yet preemptive a preemptive fuck you and I thought that was I was like you know what that's awesome haven't seen the movie yet fuck you to Zaxman. I was like, okay, wow. That's like, at least that's like you feel something, you know? You could say a lot about my movies, but, you know, I can't, I don't think like, you know, you get a lot of like, kind of, eh. Yeah, it was all right. It was whatever. I don't really remember it, to be honest. You know, I think that that, and that's, I mean, I can't, that's my, that's what I'm trying to do, I guess. Yeah. Do you, I mean, so this one, to set up a little bit of like where we are and how we got here, you've been working on this on and off for 20 plus years with Echo Writer. Yeah. What kept you coming back to it? It does strike me that like you're in the era of like your passion projects, whether it's like the famed Snyder Cut, whether it's Rebel Moon, which was kind of like on and off for years. Sure. And now here, this one. Was this kind of more of like just circumstance, like you had a full schedule? Literally, I mean, literally we've had it just sort of set up and ready to go for a long, long time. time and how to do it was always the question you know we i think i think the budget um when we had a budget of warner brothers was like 50 million dollars right right and so i was like no i mean not that i was like no we can't do it for that much but it was like an in-between movie right right it's not like a blockbuster but it's not like a low budget movie it's kind of that weird middle movie and i was like i i just don't i don't feel like it's ready um but and then we had other director who was going to do the movie we had other stars yeah you know along the way it was christian and sean penn right and so it was like and then you know just recently you know i was going to do the ufc movie and then we kind of put that on hold and then as soon as that got put on hold i was like oh like i have a little window like let's i'm not going to do nothing yeah and so we were like let's just go make last photograph so we cobbled together a tiny amount of money and went and shot it and um so it was like it's kind of like a last second of the year kind of like a last second of the year kind of like a last second of the year yeah and so we were like let's just go make last photograph so we cobbled together a tiny amount like a decision and kind of did a little bit on a lark and um yeah so it was just fun to do and it was fun to go shoot with all my friends and just kind of you know be really like it'd be really raw and just you know take the camera and see what you can do it does feel like like just thematically it is like all the the potpourri that is you like it is your love of photography it has like look you have a good damaged man you got two in this one yeah one's kind of like for revenge one's kind of a lost soul that just kind of like is looking for a purpose in life and yeah sort of like one's kind of been devoured by the by images one's been kind of you had images fuck them up you know which i feel like is kind of like that's kind of i like that as a character you know and look we've talked about your influences over the years um you got a few apocalypse now watching this like that they're down the river they're oh yeah no it's very conradian and it's yeah that's a descriptive yeah i think so so did this evolve a lot or is it essentially kind of like i know the setting changed over the years but is it it's essentially i think it's thematically the same story yeah i mean it's essentially always been these two guys like going we always talked about it like you almost they're traveling like back in time right in some ways as they travel into the movie yeah and approach approach wise i mean like it's so funny to hear you talk about like you know we want to do this like small movie like by the standards of like an indie filmmaker this would be their biggest movie by an exponential rep like you know it's it's got scale it feels big it's got helicopters and giant like action um did it feel i mean is this i guess this is in for you probably smallest since dawn of the day no the smallest ever bites by by so much i can't tell you what the budget was right now okay that will be revealed at some point like are you using your own equipment like how are you finding the quarters like to i'm just doing all the jobs that's how we did dp camera off like a lot of time that was the camera operator for every shot you're literally holding the camera every single shot yeah literally for the if you look on my instagram there's a really good there's a lot of good pictures there's that one picture that really i think tells the story of the movie i could we can you know i don't know how the podcast we can put it like this is it right here and i yeah but anyway it's like me holding the camera and i and stewart's like crying when he's holding the sort of the chief of the of the indigenous guy in the in the rainforest and like you look at that shot and it's like me and an apple box and i'm just like sitting on the dabble box pointing up and it's like that's pretty much the whole way the movie was made in a lot of ways so um and what what does that do for you like you you've you've dp'd the last few films but being like i mean being the camera off like you're in it i mean obviously you're always in it as the director it's it i i enjoy it i gotta be honest i like it much more it's like much less tedious weirdly it's much more intimate and i i really kind of i'm more interested in the movie you know like because i'm kind of like responsible for every single shot you're there yeah yeah so i found it interesting at the q a last night you were they were someone asked you about kind of like you know it's a dark film it's a heavy heavy shit in this movie and like they were asking kind of like the toll it takes on you and your actors and like by the time you're on set though it sounds like you're just like you know you've dealt with all that shit and then you're just about getting the shots like and we're also just like you know we're kind of having a good time like as soon as like we're not rolling we're like laughing it's like ridiculous and like those guys are so lovely to be around yeah you know so like when i'm not like when they're not like crying and like fighting and i say cut they're like oh my god that's hilarious okay you know we should do is blah blah blah tell story this that okay ready but let's shoot again you know so it's a very it's just a real like um it's just like a lovely experience you know does it feel so when you talked about how like this is kind of like more about the circumstance of having to hold the schedule it's not like is it because i think a lot of people are going to be quick to say it's a reaction to kind of where you were at like you know rebel moon i i don't think it was a reaction i i mean i'd love i'd like that narrative but it's just not really true i mean i think it was like a thing that was the only way to make it was to make it this way and i think the real experiment was like can we do it like it was that was the experiment like have we gotten too spun into like the giant world of cinema where like you just physically don't know how to right you make a tiny little lot a little bit yeah yeah like you can't like unless i have like a cappuccino like or whatever i don't know how i i don't know what that would be but like unless i have like all the bells and whistles i can't physically do it and i was like you know i just was thinking like okay if i have a camera and an actor i can make a movie you know like that's it that's all i need you're probably doing my phone but like you know that'll be next exactly you don't even i'm gonna go well i've done an iphone movie so that's i mean a little tiny one but did you i did i did like if you go on my varro you'll see i did that snow steam iron i did it like in 2017 okay but i did this little like i was going to teach a class up at art center yeah and because i was really i really wanted to like we had like basics right of film and like what the cool thing about is we had super eight so when you shoot a super eight movie you know it's not the movie that's going to be the movie that like is start your career right because you know it's just like it's practice yeah it feels like you're getting the hours it's like a sketch yeah yeah it's like you have a sketchbook yeah well i just feel like you know a lot of times in film school because now in the like most in the basic classes people have um use real cameras yeah you know so they don't know the starter kit they kind of think like oh maybe this is the movie right and so i was like oh no let's do an iphone class where we talk about the real kind of nuts and bolts of movie yeah that's the bolts of shooting scene creation all that stuff and we can really walk through it in a kind of very kind of methodical way you know the things that a lot of times i think in film school like they assume you know right and you you just don't really have like real scene construction like language yeah and they and and so i just thought oh it'd be so fun and and really to make like a film every two weeks and really crank you know like a five minute movie every two weeks go yeah and we had that when i would when i had my basics of film at art center we literally had a film due every two weeks and they had to be good and they had to be interesting and whatever and so i had this whole idea like i was like oh we're going to do it shoot with an iphone edited blah blah blah and they're like i remember debbie said to me like you know you've never really shot a movie on an iphone so you have this huge idea about like making iphone movies but do you is that possible right so i was like oh you're right so i was like okay so i just on like i took a weekend and i just shot a little movie basically with my phone and uh it's on the internet so you can check it out it's called snow steam iron there it is shot on iphone there it is more happy say confused coming up you've got your favorite blanket a freshly poured drink and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue you're not just watching true crime you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch welcome to murder she watched the podcast where we recap dissect and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers did the spouse do it why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in july why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary we ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your tv so every week we break down the twists red herrings and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night it's high drama cozy vibes and absolute couch detective energy grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe search murder she watched wherever you listen to podcasts and let's solve this thing together from the parents behind law and order comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy patrick picklebottom everyday mysteries step into the whimsical world of patrick picklebottom a precocious 11 year old with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to read and to write and to solve mysteries inspired by the beloved children's book of the same name this podcast vividly brings patrick's tales of deduction and everyday adventures to life as he unravels baffling enigmas and solves clever cases patrick picklebottom everyday mysteries is perfect for kids and is just as entertaining for grown-ups who love a good mystery the whole family can listen now wherever you get your podcasts so okay so going forward with this okay so it's out in the world people have seen it a small not not a lot of people have seen no not a lot um like what is the goal like is there an ideal kind of like home for this that you hope that this lands out? Are you looking for more on the big screen? I would love it on the big screen. I just think that it's, you know, I'm super excited for more visceral reactions to the movie. So it's this love-hate. It's like you like, oh, I wish people would just be kind, but you also get off on it a little bit. I mean, it's just the reality. Like if I didn't, I would just like not do this. You know, like I don't know how I've entered into this narrative where like the movies are so divisive and so, you know, it's just a movie. It's not really, it's not that. If after you see this, you're like, boy, I got to see that Zack Snyder movie. Apparently it's crazy. You might be slightly, I'm not going to say you're going to be disappointed. It's not. It's not like, it's not like another, like, you know, you're not going to be like, oh my God, it's so violent. It's so violent and sexually deprived and all those things, depraved and deprived. It's actually more sexually deprived than it is. Within the first 30 seconds, you'll feel that. No, but yeah. And the first, like, yeah. The first like five minutes of the movie, it's pretty, it's pretty, it's pretty, it's pretty hilarious. But like, also it's just, I don't know. Like I think, you know, people think people would take it. And I understand that like a super earnest, right? Yeah. But I'm also, I'm also like a very self-aware. Like people think I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, but like I'm incredibly self-aware. Like I understand kitsch. Like kitsch is my favorite genre. It is what I, I can't help myself. Like you've watched 300, you watch Watchmen, you watch any of my movies, Rebel Moon, anyone. If you don't think I, you get a joke. You don't think kitsch, kitsch is like, and I mean kitsch in the high art way, in like, you know, whatever, like a snarky, snarky. Yeah. Like, you know, camp, there's a big difference between camp and kitsch, right? Kitsch is like the kitsch school of like art is very sophisticated. Yeah. Like self-aware deconstructivist way of making movies. And that's in my DNA. And I think that like people think that I, I love that when people try and get in my head and think the way I think. And I think that I always am super excited about, because I, I find it really amusing because it's, it's the way they, the way they, they position me as some sort of like, I remember this one review in, do you remember those? Do they still exist? Fuck. Well, they, I think they're out of Chicago. It was a film. Wait, AV club? AV club. Yes. It was an AV club review. Yeah. And I forget the woman who wrote the review, but it was basically like, I'm sure Zach, Snyder, every time he tells cut, he like jerks off. Right. No. And I'm just like, that's awesome. Like, that is an awesome, like, first of all, my kids are reading this stuff. Um, but like, I just think that it was like, I just was like, that's such a like cool, like if they only knew though, one millimeter deep, like, you know, I wish I was that shallow. That'd be amazing. Well, you're also much easier. People also like, it's so funny. You're kind of co-opted by both sides of it. The political spectrum, right? Like often it feels like, Oh, I mean, I've seen some comments here. It's like, Oh, this, this could go to the daily wire. This is like, so extreme, right? Fascist, et cetera. Like, yeah, that's cool. I don't, I don't understand. I don't understand the, yeah, I sure. I think I have. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it's look, it's, it's, it's, I thought like, you know, I think, I think last photograph is a lot like Barbie, you know, in some ways, you know, in that it's like, you know, sort of, you know, I've made it from my perspective, you know, and it's, it's, yeah. Is it, is it two men on a journey? It is. That's, I'm not going to apologize for being, for having two male characters in the movie. And that there's not a, but also like, you know, are, they haunt is the one character haunted by this, this woman that he's loved his whole life and couldn't make it like, it's not about whether or not she's in the movie, right? Right. Like if the criticism is like, you know, there's no female characters in the movie. Well, there is a female character in the movie. She doesn't have, she happens to have her presence is the actual catalyst for every single thing that happens in a movie. Even like, the idea that like, if you watch this movie, and your point of view is that, well, why, why didn't we like really flesh out that female character and have a whole, like really have her be like, be it because that's not the movie, right? It's not like a, it's not a, it's not a choice of like me excluding or like characterizing, like making a cliche of the female, character because we rarely see it. It also says something about how it goes through your existence. We all carry those problems. Well, it says something about the men to the guy that's haunted. It's like, is he's viewing her as a full person at that point. But like all of, we all have relationships where we've like, you put a lot on, you put all these things onto it that just aren't there probably, you know? And like you, you, you, you know, we like are that are the people, these past relationships you've had in your life when you remember the person, do you remember? Do you remember them as a full fleshed out character or do you remember the bits of the person that affected you in certain ways and made you sad or happy or whatever you that's how you remember people? Yeah. The idealized version. Of course. Yeah, of course. So, okay. So go, yes. He literally has like a nude photograph of the woman, right? That she did on purpose, by the way, right? Like it's not a, that, that's how I remember you. Like I'm going to fuck you up. Yeah. Like I'm leaving you. Like the relationship's over. I'm going to let you take one photograph of me before I leave. And in it, I'm going to like take my clothes off and that I'm going to leave you with. So suck on that. Like that's never happened to you, right? Come on. We all have that picture. Where is it? Sorry to me. Show me the picture. You've all got it. It's on your phone now because we don't have Polaroids anymore. This is true. Is this don't tweet it or don't. Yeah. It's your PSA from everybody tweeted into my feed. I want to see everybody. It's the last photograph. Personal. Last photograph. Hashtag personal. Last photograph. Yeah. What is last photograph to you? Oh my God. There it is. There it is. Just created your marketing campaign. It really is. Is this, is this the final cut or would you like, are you like, are you delivering this to like a studio or streamer as is? I think so. Okay. This is the Snyder. I don't know what to do to it. Right. So more violence. I don't know. I think you got it. Okay. So can I ask you some, some, some other things going off of where you're at? I'm I know escape from New York is on the dock. Oh yeah. Are there any lessons from this experience that you're going to apply? It's the same lessons I always get. Yeah. It's not, I don't know that there's any, I mean, so what's the approach? What's cause I mean, look, we all revere, come on escape from New York is a totemic film for all of us. Oh no. The approach is for me to like, well, I mean, you know, the movie is going to be set in, in 97 you know, it's sort of a, it's a, you know, from the perspective of 1981 I set the movie the, the sort of the war between you know, the United States police force and the elements criminal elements takes place in, I think, July 9th, 1981, which is the release date of the original movie, right? So, and then, you know, there's a bit of a, and then the rest is pretty much escape from New York. You know, just, I think it's, I mean, and also talk about a movie that is like, you know, it's like, it's, it's the perfect combination of kitsch and camp. And yes, it's all the things. That's why it's, I love it. You know, it's like, but also it's a way that satire and can, can get to us, you know, like we can, we can make comments about, you know, government and all the, you know, overreach or whatever you want. Sure. Call it, you know, the, the People's Liberation Front of America. Right. You know, all that stuff is very like, that's, that's in the headlines. So, it's, it's a really, it's quite a, it's quite, I think it's quite a, it's a, it's a, it's a current in some ways. Do you, do you have your Snake Fliskin? I may. Someone you worked with before? I'm not going to say. It's a good, is Snake going to look like, is like the eye patch? He better. Yeah, you got to keep it. He better. He better look like Snake, or he's like, I, I'll, I'll walk out. I did talk to Jeffrey Dean Morgan recently, and he was saying that he's been hitting you up, whether it's Snake or another role. He literally has been hitting me up for, yeah, he's just been like, I don't know. Did he send you an audition tape, a growl, like a little eye patch video? He doesn't need to send me a growl. I got plenty of that. No, he's the best. I love him. He's great. He's great. He was telling me when I, when I talked to him, how you used to kind of like, tease him, Flashpoint, like just sort of like TV. that was coming was that was that's that's cool was about who knew was it part of the plan for sure it could have been yeah did you have kind of jeffrey's great you know he's he's so strong yeah you know a lot of a lot of people like you know do a cameo and you're like oh that's that's a ballsy cameo because you know that person obviously couldn't sustain like like an actual storyline you know right but he obviously can oh he's amazing yeah more happy say confused coming up hi i'm whitney and i'm katie and we're the hosts of true crime campfire we set out to make a true crime podcast we'd want to listen to we get right to the story we don't do a lot of extra talking and when we do it's usually to roast the short hairs off of some loser murderer or scammer you'll laugh but only at the people who deserve it like which serial killer would you most like to shove into a locker you btk and his awful poetry dude got caught because he didn't understand what a floppy disk was we look for the stranger than fiction stories like the case of patty james a killer catfish before the internet was even a thing or howard walmsley a sentient wad of damp laundry who convinced his town he'd won the lottery fleeced local businesses out of thousands and then became a romance scammer we've covered tons of cases you've never heard of cults scammers killers so come find your next great binge listen to true crime campfire on apple podcast spotify or wherever you get your podcasts new episodes every friday most writers have written really terrible stories the only thing different about me is that i kept them all and on my brand new show character development i'm going to force my very talented actor friends to read them with me there are teen slashers where every character sounds edgy as hell there's sci-fi giants that read just a little bit too much like giant penises and there's a murderer who enjoys musical theater for some reason listen to character development a comedy podcast on apple podcast spotify or wherever you get your podcasts um okay so if you'll indulge me a few random things 20th anniversary 300 you're saying let's go let's go okay when you look back at that one well you're all your films so many iconic moments and shots can you take me back to the this is sparta like moment like there's a lot of things that i've done that i've done that i've there's no way to go too big on that right like you know like you're going you know i've heard jerry tell this story a few times about the this is sparta yeah what's true what's your recollection i mean i i hear his version i hear it that sounds a little i hear it it's sure sure what's your i just think that there from my point of view there was in the comic book this is sparta is written with exclamation points you know so i you leaned into the faithful annotation it it and he did an amazing job like that line is iconic right like it's beyond and i just think that yeah the moment i just remember um you know him doing that version and being like okay good all right we got we can now what else right what else we got like let's moving on there's other things to do right we have that because that's correct so yeah no i'm um yeah like i i i yeah that's it's fantastic and you know it's a it's a pretty um it's a very rich universe the 300 year i was gonna say so it sounds like we're finally getting close to you returning to that yes to that universe in a tv form yes uh yes i it's the prequel it's the we really can't like there's nobody here i'm like around is that cool can i say that i think we know that there's been in development okay great tv okay good all right great yes and it sounds like it does feel like this it does feel like it's very exciting and very good would you direct any portion of it or i think so oh that's exciting yeah was there was also a obviously there was the sequel film that you did direct but like there was another script you guys wrote right like a third film like or there was a third film but as i was writing it it literally got high it was an alice in the great story right that got hijacked by history when i did my research and it turned into this um it's a script that exists i had never made a movie but it um it's a love story it turned into a love story between alexander and a festian and it just completely diverged from the 300 universe completely and became its own thing and all that now is a complete it's it just i had to go back to everyone and say i didn't i didn't they were like go write a 300 sequel and i was like cool and then i came back and i said i didn't do it i wrote something i wrote a thing but it's not that and they were like what happened and i wrote it and sorry so that's not that didn't become the prequel series no you can say anything about what the topic or characters are in the prequel series and the prequels there's i mean i don't i don't think i'm allowed to say okay i would love to okay we'll move but i'm allowed but it's cool i believe it it's very cool um i feel like we've been talking ever since sucker punch came out about the director's cut revisiting it like what the oh i'm sucker punch yeah i would love that that's like it's just like it's one of those things like where every time i i call over to say like okay we should do the director's cut of sucker punch because obviously there's a lot of conversation um it's like there's all these like weird things of like you have to wait for some licenses to completely um i see finish because if i've say i've bought the original sucker punch or whatever or one of the versions yeah and i'm showing it on my streaming service or somewhere and then i release the director's cut apparently that diminishes the value of the thing that i bought and so i i don't know that's what i've been told okay it might be bullshit it's a good excuse but i go oh yeah oh okay but on the docket one day when the definitely on the docket definitely on the docket yeah okay i gotta get the girls back for a couple like uh via like a little adr here and there too so are any of the past i mean you've kind of revisited all the works in different ways i feel like is there anything left in the in the in the past work to kind of revisit for i don't think so no you've done it really done it i really mined it are you okay raked it over the coals are you okay with some of these random ones here can i because i i'm fine with the random ones it all feels like the random ones yeah it's all good it's all good okay so did you ever explore a jor-el kind of spin-off or anything because i always loved the opening sequence of man of steel and i know i know russell talked about like oh he would have loved to explore more there was that there ever a serious conversation of anything more there there was a small conversation we had about um some sort of prequel you know zod jor-el early days yeah kind of world but it was always just i think it was fun the i talked to you a lot about casting about all your different famous iconic roles over the years i never talked about lois and i was always curious on yeah kristen stewart zoe saldaña were any of these folks like almost your lois zoe was okay um but amy was just like amy you know like i just felt like you know as far as like america's sweetheart kind of like perfect right you know she had she had moxie yep leaning into kind of just like the the iconic when yeah like that's i just really i mean i mean i love zoe so it was really hard yeah um and i thought zoe's like very she's always power strong yeah yeah and she's always like just so so good um but like i i don't know amy was just like just felt she and i don't mean this i mean this in a good way like she felt like very very much on the nose yeah but she's such a good actress she was actually able to do it yeah and actually able to make it into something other than what it is yeah you know which i think is like that's the ultimate thing like you you think you did the obvious thing but then the way the person does it is still like yeah better but the last couple times i feel like we've talked we've kind of you know we talked about the journey through the comic book universe and kind of like it seemed like you said to me maybe not in these exact words that you kind of needed a break you needed like to kind of detox a little bit because you you just went through it obviously where are you at now like are you consuming film comics anything or are you still kind of on i need i need some distance from that world um no i mean a little bit but you know i still i mean look the truth is you know i've already ignited some and you know i i don't think it's not falsely but like you know without any real i mean like i said dark knight returns is like the real for me it's a slight holy grail yeah because i think to to have done watchmen and dark knight returns is really like that's the that's the binary that defines the whole that's it if you've done those two you can really you could yeah i it'd be hard to call bullshit on me yeah after that are you reading comics like i i people love like absolutely not man really i read a comic recently um called uh dead samurai which is a a zombie okay uh a zombie story set in sort of feudal japan which obviously is awesome um so checks the boxes for something to think something if you're interested you can go check it out we're we're there i got a chance to catch up with with gal actually recently and we were talking about kind of like you know the the the end for each of kind of like your characters in that universe was well it was unfortunate and james has talked about like it was it was just not ideal the way it kind of like all went down for various reasons like do you feel like there was like a definitive moment for you where you knew like your time in that universe was done like was there a phone call an email a moment or was it kind of like a slow kind of disintegration of you kind of exiting that world i mean oh geez i mean that whole saga around me leaving was um yeah i think that um when debbie came back to me after watching the cut of justice league the joss cut of justice league and she said you are to never see that movie i knew it was kind of that was that was that was it and i thought okay that's going to be the legacy it's just going to be and i believe and i haven't seen this but i believe that in the um in the title sequence of i've seen it memed so i'm not 100 sure how it works okay there on my on my where it says directed by zack snyder yeah there is a homeless person that has a i think they have a thing that says i tried for something like that okay and i find it really like it like i was like wow that's cool that's a good like if i hadn't done my justice league that would have been the end of it right so that's that that you can imagine that's a cool that's cool so you still haven't seen the joss cut you never not yeah there's is there enough alcohol in the universe to get you to watch that yeah i get it yeah i get it and you and to clarify because i know you talked to i think holly reporter the other day so while you support james and your friends you are 100 you you haven't seen that film for whatever reason yeah i just i i honestly it's just that you know like it's a personal thing you know for me like i want it i want success for them and i i i i think that you know i trust james is like aesthetic and like his take it's a very kind of you know he has a very particular way of making movies and like looking at things and so yeah it's um it's just yeah it's just that it's just the difficulty it's wrapped up another yes it's got a lot of baggage yeah and no supergirl no no lanterns you're not watching any of that yeah i get it i get it are you ever i mean it's memed all over my xp so you've seen a bits and pieces yes it's crazy are we ever going to see you like take on like the um excalibur kind of world the arthurian myth which i know you hold so dear you love that yeah i do love that film um if you noticed in uh the movie last night uh there's a lot of excalibur references sure but um yeah i don't know i i have something that i i like a property that i that i was working on that kind of goes into that a little bit okay so maybe are there i mean like i mentioned like rebel moon was there for a while this has been out there for a while like what's the one now like is there another one that's been decades in the making that is still kind of percolating on found ned found still still on the list he's found it is absolutely on the list yeah wow yeah i really feel like it's a good time for fountainhead by the way right i wish i had found that ready to release on the heels of this would it be a perfect you thought i was crazy yeah exactly i just feel like you know because i've written it as a 12th part like i've written i've written 10 of the 12 episodes that are all so it would be a series it's a series it's like a limited series i had the original script um i i've always been you know i'm i'm a i'm a look you're not i'm i'm an apologetic fan of fountainhead i don't care i like yeah i saw brad pitt the other day say like he is like not a fountainhead oh i didn't know yeah yeah and i was like bro you want to talk to him he likes architecture and like i always said like any director and i'm sure this is fine it's like whatever it is what it is but there's like uh you know i just think that it's it's it's one of those things like there's not a lot of books for architects out there you know right like probably um you know all the all the all the kids who love architecture the re fountainhead are like that's my this is my thing yeah and then they're told by like their teacher at in their liberal arts college that they're not allowed to like found it so that they have to put it aside but then they secretly read it in the how do you quiet so how but anyway i so i've written a 10 out of 12 yeah and um you know i have like a whole it's just one of these things that i'm i've i i started writing it in like 2018 okay so not it's not like a super no but it's not super long time but it's a lot it's a it's a lot of work you know to write it to adapt it although what i was going to say is i had um because i you know i'd always um been sort of trying to develop it maybe as a movie right you know and then um i i got a hold of ayn rand's original like script before they cut it down for the movie but it's like 300 and 10 page script you know it's like a really dense script so i used that script to help me edit the whatever she kind of edited yeah like the storylines that she felt like yeah weren't in the in the movie were because i it's not every single thing you know because the book's like 700 pages right so there are a few edits i made not crazy okay but um and i use that as sort of the way the way through the the process so are you is the idea to finish out the 12 scripts and then go out with it or are you like trying to like find a place i don't know i have some ideas on how to make it so not the iphone for this one not the iphone not the iphone i've talked to a lot of there's a lot of strangely there's a lot of like very powerful very wealthy people that like found that i'm sure so um you know there's a there's a there's some there's some interest okay weirdly like you know you i took it around you know and um it was the reaction and it was it was it was interesting i got let me just say i i sold it to two companies and then for whatever reason they came back to me like a week later and were like oh we can't do it so i think they just they just they pulled it up the flagpole and and everyone was like what you're insane we can't make fountainhead so i'm excited about that that's a reason to make it right there by the way i i get it um is brawler still on the docket brawlers yes i've brawler um i have uh uh let's see what else is uh what's the other thing we talked about blood and ashes yeah um that's the 300. yeah yeah no no but yeah that's the 300 300 to skew yeah 300. oh that's what became that's sort of beginning so could you still make that as the not 300 i couldn't make it i could i i own it outright okay courtney valenti was my executive like and she's like she was really like she she she was um very encouraging okay of this like homoerotic um very very awesome very beautiful love story really to be honest let's be honest so these guys conquered the world and it's incredible um and so where is brawler out now and brawler well i just i'm you know the ufc is um they've got like you know this new home at paramount and i think that there's kind of like a as that settles in i think they're kind of across you know that what that relationship's like i mean obviously it's doing really well but it's a paramount so that's great where are you at i mean one of the hotline initiatives i'm sure you've been asked about this what's your take on ai these days in terms of like as a tool as a something to run away from well you can obviously like the movie i just made as like no it barely has any visual effects right so um it was very organic um experience um and i haven't really um you know i look like you know do i have chad chippy t on my phone i do and you know like i i think um is it like right now how it's being going to be used in cinema in the future um i just hope we're not making you know full cg a or ai images that are being sold as like you know i think that like once the humans are ai i'm a little concerned how's that yeah that's my that's fine i know it feels simplified but i think it's the most i think the humans need to be human this is the line in the sand that seems that yeah it feels like just basic yeah are you i know that it's gonna it's it's gonna get muddy and gonna get um it's gonna get you know because visual effects is such a slippery slope because visual effects like you know traditional cg visual effects and now ai visual effects are very um um you know the the line between those two things is like very it's blurry and it's hard to put your finger on but you can always say the humans need to be human yeah and that's like i think that's that's for me yeah and i'm look there's a lot of other things and the shots need to be the shots also i don't need ai telling like making any shots like they should not ai should make no shots right humans should make shots and humans should be in movies that's kind of how it should be are you a good year in movies i mean the the rise of horror with the obsessions of the world i'm sure you've seen odyssey by now you love it chris's film yeah he's all inspiring for you as a as a filmmaker what do you inspire people i love that like i like people I do think that one thing is I think in response to AI that you might find is that the and I hope this is true. Yeah, this cinema becomes this sort of certified place to see actually handmade things, you know, like I think there's well, I do believe there'll be a resurgence of handmade, you know, whether it be ceramics or I don't I don't know what, but just handmade objects will take a value that they may be lost over over time. And I think movies in that is in the same way, you know, movies made by people for people in a handmade way. I don't know visual effects or what's happening over here, but as long as it's presented by a person to other people. Yeah. And I think the movie theater itself will be the place where you can be the ultimate. You had some sort of stamp that allows you to believe that that that's true in there. I think it is like an inspiring thing right now. It seems like I mean, I'm going to sound like an old person, but like like the fetishization. For like young, the younger generation right now around the movie theater experience of like the IMAX, the 70 mil, like the formats, like the practical, it's really kind of cool to see. It's very cool. I like it because it really it goes back to what I was saying about the handmade thing. Yeah, it's like all those things are artisan, artisan ingredients. Yeah. And I think that people can recognize that, you know, and they want to, you know, and I think it's cool. We're going to end with this. I've done this with some filmmakers and actors that have amazing filmography. I'm going to put your films up against each other. You're going to choose the best acts signed or film of all time. Bracket style. Oof. You ready? I guess. All right. Dawn of the Dead versus 300. What do you choose? Oh. I got to go 300. OK. Now Steelverse of DBS. Those two, you really want to do that? I know. It's strong. Director is cut, of course. Obviously. Yeah. I'm going to say DBS. OK. Justice League versus Watchmen. Fuck. That's rude. You've done this to yourself. That's rude. I know it is. Justice League. OK. Sucker Punch versus Rebel Moon. Oh. Director's got to, of course. Yeah, always. I'm going to say Rebel Moon. OK. So now it's Rebel Moon versus Justice League. Justice League. And then it's 300 versus BVS. BVS. And now for all the marbles. BVS versus Justice League. The greatest Zack Snyder film of all time. According to Zack Snyder. I'm going to have to say Justice League. All right. Yeah. You got to go with the dream. Yeah. The one that couldn't be stopped. Watchmen could have snuck in there, but it's. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know where. Yeah. It should have been Watchmen versus Justice League in the end. We'll do that next time. That's fine. Today, it's Justice League. It is. All right. Always a fun time chatting with you. Especially, like, this is like a moment in time. We will always remember. This is a moment in time. I'm excited. The discourse continues. The discourse always continues. I know you'll find a great home for this one. Congratulations on the last photograph. Thank you. And thanks to those for the time, man. Cheers, brother. Appreciate you. Have fun. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't. Should I do this by Josh? Bye, Josh. Hey, I'm Ashley, host of Crime Salad, and every week, my husband Ricky joins me as my partner in crime. We know the true crime space is crowded, so we skip the loud, bubbly small talk and get straight to the facts of the most gripping cases. If you want to see what we're all about, check out our recent two-parter deep dive, She Saved Him, Can You Save Her?, covering the baffling Rebecca Zahao case. If you want a true crime podcast that feels authentic and respects the details, come check us out. 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