Your WNBA playoff gossip guide: You can be an honest Fever fan, the Valkyries’ workplace is healthy, the Liberty destroyed the Lynx’s good vibes + more with Jessica Smetana!

All right, testing, testing, testing, testing. You were somewhere else, I'm sorry, I was totally reading something that was very funny. Well, you know, I also didn't tell you we were recording, so let's see, let's see how this sounds. I thought this was a test. Well, you know, it is. Okay. What is it when you think about it? That's true. Okay. Hi, Jess, hi, Shah, welcome everybody to a special episode of the Sports Gossip Show. Don't worry, Madeline will be back. We love her. We miss her. She'll be back next week. And in the meantime, we have someone very near and dear to my heart, Jessica Smetana. Thank you for being here with me. You're welcome. What is the SNL skit that you and Madeline are? Like, what is the name of that skit? Delicious dish. That's okay. I couldn't think of it the other day and I was trying to describe your show to someone. And I was like, it's like, have you ever seen Barb and Star or go to Vista Del Mar? I was like, it's like that. Wait, that is the highest compliment you could pay me. You're welcome. No, I am like, I'm shook. I'm, I'm blushing. I just got really hot. Really? The second time then in 24 hours that I've shaken you to your core with an observation/ recollection. I mean, there have been more than that, I would say. Well, that's true. I was referring to one that we can say on air, which is last night. I was going to say, wait, I was going to say, there are a lot of things we can't say. That's true. No, I meant like a normal one. Oh, one. Well, should we say what we did last night? Yes. Okay. Yes. Charlotte came over. WM8 playoffs and we ordered a metric ton of pad Thai. And it was, it was an amount of pad Thai where just so kindly texted me when we were making plans. I was like, do you want to eat, you know, we have food here? Would you like to eat that or would you like to get a takeout? And I didn't know how to text you this. So I just called her and I said, look, I am down to eat anything you already have in your house. I'm really hungry. So are you sure there's enough? And there's no way you can text that sentence to, so even one of your closest friends without sounding fully insane. Right. Right. I had a lot of leftover chili from the nori store that my fiance made, but I understand where your concern was because there's nothing worse than going over to someone's house, really hungry. And they're like, yeah, I have food. And then they just don't have enough. So I totally understood where you were coming from. And we're close enough that I could say that to you. Right. Oh, yeah. And I would agree because there's probably not many times where you're hungier than me or vice versa. Like we're very on each other's level. We're good eaters. Right. We're good eaters. But it did remind me of like whatever we were talking about reminded me of something you told me when I was just like a childish 22 year old in sports media, which was we were talking about, I told you this last night we were talking about like all of the pressure to change our appearances for media careers and you were like, this is just my face. It really stuck with me for my whole 10 years of my career now. You know, Jess, I was so happy when you told me that because I think that there's this, I mean, you know, not to turn this into a podcast about unrealistic beauty standards and plastic surgery. But we will because it's my show and that's what we're going to do right now. No, but I think that there's this element where it's almost like I understand the pressure to look a certain way as a woman doing this. I really do. And I think that strangely, I have gone in the opposite direction where it almost feels subversive to me. Like I didn't really, I didn't, I brushed my eyebrows before doing this, but I didn't, I didn't really do anything else because part of me is like, you know, do show up all the time to talk about sports on camera. Like, you know, Bill Simmons is on Netflix and he doesn't, he doesn't like have to take an hour to do his makeup. And so partly, I feel like then we know of and maybe he does. And if he does, that's also great. And also, if you, if you do, right, I love, I also, exactly, exactly anyone who's doing their hair makeup. That's not what I mean at all. I think it's, this is a very personal thing where I'm like, I almost want to like punish everyone with my actual face. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, I'm like, sorry, I just can't take the time to like do something else to it. And so I, I also just think that there's a lot asked of us as women and I'm like, you can relieve some of that pressure off of yourself if you're just like, well, here's my face. Here it is, is what I look like. This is what I look like. Anyways, I enjoyed the Pad Thai and the company. I had just the best time with you and I, and we're going to keep that party going today. We watched, as you said, we watched the, the playoff games first was fever, aces. And then we watched liberty links. And I would say I was surprised, I think, by the outcome of both, to be honest. But before we get to that, and we're going to talk about the whole playoff series, everything going on, this is coming out Thursday and we're recording this Wednesday afternoon. So there are games tonight that things will have happened where everybody listening, you guys know what happened before we do, which is exciting if you think about it. We're going to talk about those in ways that this is still relevant, I promise. But Jess, you, you put something in our lovely little doc that I would like to start with, which is that the WMBA, this year, it was their best regular season viewership since 2000. Yeah. So there's a new media year, sorry, a new media deal that started this year and according to sports business, journal, games averaged, seven hundred and 71,000 viewers in the first year of the, of the new media rights pack, up 17% from last season. There were 51 games that drew over a million viewers. That's a lot of games. And it's also a bullet point that said, even with excluding Caitlyn Clark, those non fever games averaged, 984,000 viewers, the season up 24%. I'm not sure which games specifically, what networks they're referencing, but basically viewership in a very positive direction and turns out if you put more games on accessible platforms, people are still interested in watching them. That was, you know, the best deal in town is still WMBA lead pass because you get all the games and it's like $40 for the whole year. But it was nice this year having more on ESPN and Prime and NBC and like all the different play Ion still has tons of games on Fridays, like all the different places where you can find it without having to like look too hard. Yeah. I mean, it really is something, I feel like you've actually taught me more about women's basketball and about sort of the viewership trends and all of the ways that what the media puts up and what the networks choose to show impact the way we consume them, which sounds like such an obvious thing to say, but when you think about the 90s, when the W started, like those games were getting so much viewership, like people were going, so many people were watching and then, you know, ESPN kind of just buried a bunch of games for a while. And it feels like this is kind of the most obvious these stats that you just read. It's the most obvious version of like, if you build it, they will cut, like you have to, you have to have something for people to watch on a place where they can find it to watch it. And they will. And it seems very obvious. But I think one thing that was really fun about the double header playoff games last night, they were on different networks, but there was like shoulder programming. So you could watch the pregame and the postgame and get like press conference highlights and clips and stuff, which sounds like the most obvious thing in the world. But like a lot of times in the before days, and this is still the case for a lot of games and a lot of different women sports, you're just like, turn on the game. And as soon as the game ended, as soon as like you heard the final whistle, it would cut to like the next sporting event, and there'd be no like postgame breakdown. And I don't know, I think like I probably, and a lot of people might overestimate how important that is until you don't have it. Like I think we take it for granted and like football coverage and NFL coverage. Like those like 10 minutes after the game to like debrief and talk about the game. And like hear from your voices from players and coaches and stuff. It like helps you learn about the characters because Charlie, you know, I'm not a basketball. I'm not like an exes and a knows basketball expert. I'm not an expert on pretty much anything except maybe the Great British Bake Off, which the new season just started. I don't know if you saw, but I saw I'm probably going to watch it. Well, there are games tonight. You need to watch it. It's definitely. Well, it's Nigella, right? It's Nigella. Great British Bake Off is sports. Yeah. Not to do a little tangent right now, but do you know why I haven't watched the Great British Bake Off yet? No. I am deep in Next Gen Chef on Netflix. Oh, okay. I've never seen that. No, I had neither. And now I am and so yeah, the new Bake Off episode dropped. as I am in the middle of Nexon chef and I can't watch it until I finish Nexon chef but it's fine, it doesn't matter. Anyways my point being I you know we we watch the sports for yes like I do know enough about the actual sport to understand it but like the characters the storylines like yes the you know the stakes like those are all things that people tune in for and care about so giving people like extra of that and giving people like a taste for more than just what's happening but it took in between the whistles is important. Let's shocking it turns out people enjoy that and watch that and they want that for women sports as well what a concept. I really I enjoyed that too I think to like let's start with fever aces obviously and we don't really need to talk about this just much because it's sort of blown over by now but Asia Wilson a fan pointed at her during the game she got upset understandably so and I just find it really interesting to in that shoulder programming in that post game you hear what she said at her press conference you hear you know the talking heads kind of weigh in on it and I always find that really helpful to hear like an immediate reaction from the people on TV because it actually helps me solidify what I thought about it in the first place do you know what I mean yeah where you're like do I agree with you do I not agree with you but that fever aces game the fever beat the aces it was 99 to 89 and Caitlin Clark she showed up this was after the fever the aces took game one at home they looked pretty dominant I kind of thought what did you think going into this because I was like well it seems like the aces are gonna sweet yeah I mean so three game series so like you only have to win two games and it's like the the opening series now in the wba is 111 so like home court advantage then you go on the road then you go back home and it felt like to me the fever's best chance at winning the series would have been to take game one but they came out pretty flat against Vegas on Vegas's home court on Sunday and it was really not a close game like the aces just their front court especially like Asia Wilson shot 79% from the field like she dominated the first game it was like one of the best games of her career she had almost 40 points in it so this game it was like yeah it's a closeout game like the the fever have to win this game to extend the series and it was sort of like the opposite they came out just way more intense and physical and in front of their home crowd which is obviously a a big loud environment um they played better defense and Caitlin Clark like really I'd say went all out in the sense that like she did she I mean she did literally follow out of the game like she did she went she literally went all out she scored 27 points she had 15 assists which is crazy um shot nine for 18 five of 11 from three like she had a really good bounce back game and they were just like they had a much better um comfortability I think like handing handling is that a word I don't know handling Asia in the second game then in the first game I thought um and also like great help from their bench like Raven Johnson being a key player in the series so far has been pretty interesting because she was their first round draft pick this year yep that being said like I don't know how I feel about a game three because it does feel like there has been a little bit of a momentum swing on the court but then when I think about Asia in that moment with the fan and what she said afterwards it's kind of like oh she's pissed yes because so so so afterwards she basically said if I see a man pointing at me coming towards me because it sort of became about like did he say something did he not the fever the fever said this was their statement following a report of a comment directed towards a player arena security spoke with the fan involved and witnesses security determined determined there was no violation of the fan could of conduct the fan was not removed from the arena we consider the matter closed and it's like oh you talked to the fan and he was like I'm good yeah and and I think that this has been an issue with the fever through the season and for a while now in terms of players had reporting like having bad experiences are Asia sudden Becky Hammond the head coach of the aces was like it's not the first time something like this has happened to Asia here you can see people on edge and I just want to say like if you're a fever fan and you feel like defensive of your team take it for or of your fan base I just want to say take it from me you know where I'm going at this take it from me I do know where you're going I am a fan of the New England Patriots which is pretty much an indefensible franchise I'm also a fan of Boston teams in general where players have reported having horrible things said to them while they're playing and you can be you can I'm still a fan of those teams you know it's like I was I'm this is how this is a part of me sorry but I do also take full accountability for those people and I say I don't want anything to do with you I wish you didn't represent my team you don't have to like defend your team or the people who are fans of it who do bad things to still be a fan of that team and I think that's something that gets lost a little bit if you know yeah I think yeah to your point it's there's very bad behavior in every fan base of yeah every major sport like it would be I could give you a thousand examples of things you've never thought of that I've seen online in the last week just pertaining to like a couple college football games but um totally agree but yeah to your point it does seem like um players are on tilt when they play there a little bit and they're kind of like hyper aware of this environment in the situation yep and so I think that probably played into her reaction and she got fed up because this guy did something that like really like I don't mean this in the negative pejorative way but it triggered her like yeah yeah what I feel like is like you can barely use anymore um yeah but yes I I mean look I Charlotte I'm a Steelers fan Aaron Rogers is still the Steelers quarterback it's not good all right it's very very bleak um did I celebrate when they beat the bangles yes but I guess this is that's a separate situation because I don't know if that necessarily is fan behavior more so just rooting for Aaron Rogers who believes in like HIV denialism or whatever he's all about should we do this now? I guess do we want to talk about this is another tangent you know I don't know maybe we can come back to this if we feel like it but but but because to your point it it actually is the same thing even if it isn't fan behavior because it to be a sports fan requires such such monumental levels of compartmentalization and mental gymnastics to be able to like any team because they are all owned by billionaires which is just never gonna there you dig you dig a little bit and you're gonna find something of course there are better franchises than others but um I think when it comes to the ACE is going forward it feels like knowing Asia as we do and what kind of player she is and how passionate and dialed in and I mean she's a generational talent like she's a goat right like what are we it's hard to really have the correct language to talk about what a great player she is um she's also someone where things like this I don't see them losing a game after she she was this you know set off by whatever it was that happened um and I also want this we were talking about this yesterday I don't I'm gonna be honest don't love a three game series yeah I mean it's short three game series I would love a five game series of fever aces because and I know that you know the series get longer as you go on but and the and the W season isn't as long as the NBA season for example and so they can have all the first round series be it and and also NBA playoffs are too long so they take too long so I understand it's like a math problem but I don't love it I read something that came out today about how if they extended the first round series they'd have to pay the players more which yeah um you do when they don't work more apparently that was something that was in the CBA so maybe we'll see that happen I mean like there's already been changes a lot of changes to the post game or postseason um format over the last few years so yeah I could I could envision that but yeah with three games you're right like there could be a huge variance in what happens and like typically in a seven games series like yeah your better team will win because they'll have more opportunities to like prove that they're the better team and in a sport like this with just three games yeah I mean I could see an argument that like it you can leave more to chance because it's only it's such a small sample size obviously but um yeah I don't I really don't know what to expect because I think from like the standpoint of which teams like better on paper like they both have great players that have the ability to play extremely well like Jackie Young even in a loss against the fever she was phenomenal she really kept the aces in that game in the fourth quarter she's just uh one of the best players in the world obviously Caitlin Clark also one of the best players Kelsey Mitchell like one of the best shooting seasons any players ever had in the W.A. and um you have Aja Wilson who's the MVP who's one of the greatest players of all time so I don't really know who I pick it's that's why if you take it to three like anything can happen um which is really fun and exciting but also very scary >> I also don't want one of these teams to be out yet. These are such two speaking, you know, it's going to find one. I know, I know it could have been a final series. And it's one of those things where you're like, well, I don't want to not be talking about Asia Wilson or Caitlin Clark, even though talking about Caitlin Clark sometimes the very difficult thing to do. But something we have to talk about that is tangentially related to Caitlin Clark is that there was a Senate hearing where Eric Schmidt, who's a Missouri Republican, a senator from Missouri, he was grilling the former special counsel, Jack Smith. And Jack Smith was a guy who was looking into Donald Trump under Biden. And then they were like, no, you're not when Trump was reelected. And he was like, okay. And now the Republicans are trying to basically do a gotcha or have him purge or himself, which was why at this hearing, which was why Schmidt was saying to Jack Smith, he was like, you attended an Atlanta Hawks basketball game on February 3, 2024 between the Hawks and the Warriors. And Jack Smith was like, no, I didn't. He was like, I've actually never been to a Hawks game. And Schmidt was trying to do this because he was saying that Jack Smith was in Georgia that day as like some sort of fake conspiracy to coordinate criminal cases against Trump with the Fulton County prosecutors because Smith was a federal prosecutor. And so basically Jack Smith is like, no, I've never been to a Hawks game. And Schmidt's like, aha, you purge yourself because I have evidence that you were there. And he showed a picture of Jack Smith at a basketball game, which is people online have since looked at the picture and been like, well, that's obviously not the Hawks arena. And Jess, would you believe it wasn't it wasn't what was it? Well, you know what it was? It was the Jack Smith went to an Iowa Hawke eyes basketball game in 2024 to see Caitlin Clark who was then a senior in college play against the Maryland Terps. Oh, man. So they got Hawke eyes and Hawks confused because the Republican Party is the party of the great American sports watchers and ball knowers. Yes. And the Democrats are the soy boy who don't like sports or America or football. Right. And somehow like the conservatives have like co-opted sports. And I remember during the presidential election, there was some like stupid faux pas that like Tim Waltz like staffers made on his account. Do you remember this? It was like some stupid, they like used incorrect football terminology in a post or something like that. Okay. And it was like just like all these conservatives just like dunking on it. It's like, oh my God. They don't even like football. They don't know what a pick six is. It was like some stupid. Yeah. I remember that. And it was like Minnesota football or something. I don't I don't have a clue. I'm a clue. I just tried to repress it. Honestly, that whole time was terrifying. Yeah. But anyways, it definitely is part of like the culture wars to sort of like win sports because everyone loves sports. And I guess like the lips are trying to like they don't like it or are trying to end it or something. I don't. Yeah. Right. Right. That was very famously the lips are trying to end sports. They're trying to end sports. What was funny though was Amy Klobuchar stepping in and being like, um, so hang on a second. Are you sure you're talking about the Atlanta Hawks and not the Iowa Hawkeyes and Caitlin Clark. And then when she was like in Minnesota, we have the Gofers very hard to confuse that with the professional team. I thought that was very funny. It's really funny. It was also just a really beautiful moment because I think part of it is that Eric Schmidt couldn't imagine a world in which a man went to watch a woman sports game. Right. So he so he was like, well, surely Jack Smith was at a men's basketball game because why would he go watch the ladies play? And then it was just that combined with with a woman Amy Klobuchar being the one who was like, um, I think you're referring to the sports franchises sports teams of the University of Iowa. Just really great. And I love it. I think that because we've been doing this for long enough when sports pop up in like a senate hearing, the media. It's I'm like, they're talking like Clark in the Senate. Oh, there. Um, but to wrap up the the fever conversation, one thing I want to ask you. Yes, Stephanie White, head coach of the fever. Um, one of my favorite fun facts about, uh, Steph White is that she is married to ESPN, um, sideline reporter Lisa Salters who does Monday night football, who does the finals. Um, they've been together since 2016. They live in Nashville. Um, that's just one of my favorite sports gossip. Uh, storylines of love it can't really get enough of it. They're very private. So I don't really know much more than that. Stephanie White, can you give people who might not know is what's her season been like? Is her job safe if the fever? Is she going to get fired if the fever loose? It's possible. I don't I can't really say for sure. It's not like I've heard anything about it, but um, I think it's been a tumultuous season like she's been blamed a lot for, um, the inconsistency and some of the games that they've lost. And there's been like this background hum of people accusing her of not liking Caitlin Clark and not like purposely not allowing Caitlin Clark to run the offense in a way that would like be best for her skill set and people have like, you know, there was like this very viral moment earlier this season where like Caitlin was on the bench and they were like sort of like furiously talking to one another and then she like took her out or whatever. I don't even. Yeah. And people really like went to town on that. And there was another thing that happened a few days ago after the aces game where there was a press conference and, you know, someone made a smash cut of all their comments and it made it seem like they were making very passive aggressive comments about each other where Caitlin was like, we weren't running the right sets and couldn't get open shots and stuff. And you why it was like, you turn the ball over too many times and like one criticism of Caitlin Clark that is you could make is that she does turn the ball over a lot. She does also handles the ball a lot and passes a lot, but like she has a lot of turnovers. Um, and so people have like read into this relationship that they secretly hate each other and Caitlin wants to get her fired or whatever. I really don't know if that's the case, but I from just like a bird's eye view like I think yeah, it would be pretty disappointing for them to not make it through the first round given that Caitlin Clark is on this roster and Kelsey Mitchell and Alia Boston. But there are definitely issues with the roster. It's not like it's top to bottom like they've had issues all year with the front court and with all these different things. So I don't know, I couldn't tell you if she's going to get fired or not. But I think she's had, she's admitted she's had a really tough year. And I think, you know, obviously Sophie Cunningham's comments in the middle of the season have contributed to just an increased scrutiny on the organization and her and the job that she's doing, which is really, you know, obviously it comes with the territory, but I'm sure it still is really hard. One other thing I'll say about her Charlotte is like one of my favorite things in the WNBA is that every head coach has a look. And Steph Whites is, she loves a leather jacket. She's always got a leather jacket on Becky Hammond has the hoodie with the blazer over it. Cheryl Reeve has the graphic T. Yep. With the blazer over it. Like everyone's got their look and steps is the leather jacket. She's always rocking some sort of leather jacket. You know, and it's usually a color. Yeah, like it was red. I think it was like a blade. Was that a blazer or a Jack? I can't remember. I think it might have been a blazer, but like she does. Yeah, she does have like a red leather jacket. She has a red leather jacket. And I, you know, who's my favorite head coach's look is Sandy Brondello, who was the head coach of the Liberty Matching Sets. She did. And she's now the head coach of the tempo. And, you know, obviously she's still dressing, but I do think when you're dressing in New York, it's different from when you're dressing in Toronto. Like I'm going to pay a little more attention to your outfit. Sorry. Sorry. Look, New York controversial. We're controversial here in the sports gossip show. But yeah, so, okay, that's very interesting. And, you know, on the Sophie Cunningham stuff, who said, you know, all those really stupid things about trans athletes. I think part of the something that, obviously, the more important thing to talk about is the harmful things she said about trans people. But I think an element of it that I do feel like maybe is affecting the vibes as we talk right here on the show of the fever is the noise that she brought to that team. And just from a, from a standpoint of, if I were her teammate, I would just be so pissed because it was so unnecessary. That kind of attention that I would argue she brought on herself as like, to be, I don't know where it was like an ESPN profile. Yeah, to be like a right-wing grifter kind of because like you can get a lot of money if you're. on that track and be the face of that in the WNBA. Like, she made herself that and that's fair. I mean, yeah, it's the age old thing of like, being a distraction, right? - Yeah. - She's also not played very well the last month and a half. Like, she was shooting really well the first part of the season. - It's karma, I mean, yeah, maybe. I don't know, I mean, maybe it's just like, she put a ton of pressure on herself and made a lot of haters out of people who maybe hadn't really thought about her too much. She also made herself a symbol for a lot of people that like really love her and agree with her and she picked us out and like, there's a lot of pressure that comes with people knowing who you are when you're like the sixth person on a team that already has a ton of attention and scrutiny on it. So that's certainly a part of all of it and yeah. - Anyway, well, let's move on to that team from New York, the Liberty Jess swept the links. This was crazy because the Liberty were in A/C. They had kind of a rocky season. Obviously, they still have unbelievable players. They have John Colt Jones. They have Brianna Stewart, Sabrina Unescu. I mean, those are their big three, but they really, it was a tough season in a lot of ways. And they beat the Minnesota links. - Can you tell people why this was kind of nuts, but also not super shocking, I guess? - Yeah, it's crazy in that, yes, they were in A/C. If you were just like looking at it on paper, you're like, wow, this is a big upset. That's never happened before. And obviously, like I mentioned, the format of the post-season's changed a lot. So it's not like there's been that many opportunities for it to happen, but the season there was, there were not a lot of games separating good teams and if we went back like a week ago, like the links were on the brink of clenching the one seed, and then they lost to the fever in a pretty embarrassing way. And like, I made a joke about like, are they purposely tankings or they can finish in second and play the seven seed, which is the wings because only two teams beat the links multiple times the season, the dream who finished with the four seed and the Liberty, who also famously beat them in the finals two years ago. And a series that Cheryl Reeve, like, you know, all the players were very, very impacted by an upset with because of the officiating in the last game. And so on paper, yeah, it's like, wow, this is a huge upset, but really the Liberty all season, we're a team that was underperforming and just inconsistent and also dealt with a ton of injuries, like Satu Savali missed most of the season. She was one of those big off-season signings. She had a head injury and really like never was healthy. Sabrina was working back from an injury. She was pretty hitter this all season with her shooting, but had a really great game to close out against the links on Wednesday night. Stewie has been playing great all year, like she is just so good and like so consistent. And I said a week ago, like people online, I made a video about it and people were like, the Liberty suck, like, they're not gonna upset the links. And I was like, well, Stewie is probably the second best player in the world behind Asia Wilson. And John Quill Jones is also a former finals MVP, like she's a great player. And maybe they hadn't found their chemistry until kind of later in the season, but that's when it's important to find your chemistry, right, when you're into the playoffs. And that's also when they got healthy. And one of their better defenders and shooters, Leo Fibish came back. So things kind of clicked at the right time for them, I guess you could say I wouldn't be surprised. I think they're probably, if you were looking at betting odds, they're probably the second, have the second best odds to win the championship. Because we've seen most of that core of players do it before. And like I said, like part of it is that Minnesota, although they were the number one seed all season, started to decline a little bit towards the end of the year. And one thing that if you watched the game, the broadcast mentioned a lot, which is very true, the Liberty are huge, like they are so tall. And they have such a length advantage on Minnesota specifically, which is why they were able to beat them twice the season, I believe. So it was a bad matchup for the Lynx, which is unfortunate because they were a really fun team to watch all season and had the rookie of the year, Olivia Miles on their team, who has had all these like, amazing passes and was doing all this crazy stuff and guess what, seen it all before? Because she played for Notre Dame. So I was like, this is nothing new. But also like when she was at Notre Dame, once they're out to the post season. I was gonna say, well, you know what else you've seen before is Olivia Miles in the post season. She was not good and either of these games, which is unfortunate because obviously like internet haters and like stand culture, like people are like, well, she should not be rookie of the year then. Like she sucks, she's bad, blah, blah. It's like, no, okay, everyone, she, all of the stuff that happened during the regular season happened still, like she is the best rookie this year. You cannot take that away from her. Does she have things she needs to improve? Absolutely, like no one can argue that. But that's part of, that's part of why I do this. Also, I'm like a five game series would be awesome here if they had like one more chance for Olivia to. I heard it find her legs, yeah. Yeah, and I understand that's not how it works. And she did what she did. I also think it is interesting just in terms of a team chemistry thing. Nafisa Collier underwent double ankle surgery, which is just brutal in the earlier in the year. And she was only there for 14, sorry, 16 of the links his last games. And I do feel like Olivia was having such a moment. She would, and the team was really working. And Nafisa is one of the best players in the league. But I do think that it just kind of speaks to when there is a change in chemistry or a change in the way you've been doing something as a sports team, it can be hard to make that new reality work in some ways. Right, right. It was a big adjustment in Natasha Howard was an all star because of her chemistry with Olivia Miles. And then you add Nafisa Collier, who's still sort of like getting back to full form. Like I don't know, I doubt she's 100%. Like he said, she's coming up major surgery and hasn't played them in games for feet. On both angles that like, yeah, terrible. Yeah, I think that the chemistry aspect is probably part of it. And this is also something that happened in Notre Dame in 2025 because Notre Dame's senior forward, Maddie Westfeld came back from an injury late in the season. And like, it was the same thing. It was like the chemistry never really clicked and they were never really able to like, she was still working her way back and was not like fully healthy. And it's just like when you need to play your best basketball, you do like momentum is people say it's like not a real thing, but like whatever you want to call it, like it's real that their best basketball was earlier this year and they were whatever happened at the end of the season, like the grind of the season, you know, the exhaustion, like all those things, the change in chemistry. Like it happened at a time where they absolutely could not lose these games and they lost these games. And Sabrina, you know, ask who said after the game, she said, look, the postseason is a new season. And I think that that's how the Liberty seemed to be approaching this. Interesting things about the links because we'll have a lot of other chances to talk about the Liberty probably. I don't, I feel like they're kind of rolling right now. But Nefisa signed a one year deal after the new CBA. So she's now a free agent. A lot of the people who were free agents that was, they did that on purpose to time up with the new CBA. Signed three year deals, I think, is sort of the more common thing to do. I found it interesting at the time and I find it very interesting now that Nefisa signed a one year deal because that does give you the sense of like, yeah. Well, like one thing that happened that was kind of, you know, the CBA happened. So like it came together very quickly, like late in the spring. And so there was speculation that there would be a ton of player movement because of the timing of all the contracts and like player becoming free agents. But like a lot of players kind of ended up signing where they were the year before because it just, the timing was so condensed, I guess. Right, it would have been too rushed to try to, yeah, yeah. Like it was just like, it was not, there was not enough time, I guess. And I don't know, I think, yeah. Like she signed a one year deal and she could be gone next year and that really wouldn't surprise me. And Sheryl, we've also said after they lost to the Liberty, like it's on me as a coach and an executive to do like put together the best team basically and like get to the finals and win a finals series. And that to me implied like she doesn't, she kind of like knew this roster wasn't really gonna take her there. And, you know, I think it was, and that's not to say she's blaming the players. I think she really is mostly blaming herself because it really is on her. But there's, you know, there's a lot that goes into that. I don't know what's gonna happen with me. I, there were people speculating she was gonna get traded this year because she was on an expiring contract. So like why not get something that obviously didn't happen. But there could be tons of movement yeah in this off season. - Sheryl Reeve, this I love, Sheryl Reeve. I'm just gonna, this is the Sports Gossip Show. So Sheryl Reeve is married to Cardi. who is the president of business operations for the links. And I really love a power couple working for the same organization because you're just like, oh my God, they're what they talk about at dinner is or like, you know, they're doing the dishes and they're like, do we need to reassign Nafisa? You know what I mean? Like it's such monumental conversations that you can just like have in your house which I would, you know, you got to be careful in terms of the business of it that everybody else in your business feels included and not like you're doing things kind of outside of the realm of where you should be doing business. But this, they met in 2006 when Cheryl was an assistant coach with the Detroit shock which I would argue I do, I have always believed this is one of the best team names in history of sports. Well, so Detroit's getting a team back but apparently some random guy owns the trademark. Did you know that? Well, that's the problem with a lot of these teams, right? Like, which is why Cleveland had to be the sirens? They couldn't be the rockers? Yeah, I think the same guy. Actually, no, I think it's a different. I remember like looking this up when they announced this. Which I think is a great name. I think Cleveland sirens is like, we're, we're myth mythology maxing. Like, there's nothing. Yeah, sure. There's a summer of the Odyssey. Yeah. But yeah, Detroit shock is very cool. Oh, it's so good. Detroit shock. It's like, it's like an energy trick. Which now that I say it, it's not. Maybe it's like one of the best worst names actually. And if we're really going to follow this through to its logical conclusion. But Cheryl was an assistant coach in Detroit in 2006. And Carly was the director of sales and marketing. And they both went to the lengths in 2009. They got married in 2011. And they have a son named Oliver. And Cheryl feels like the closest thing to job security that that that coach can have in the W. Because she's, she's been being there. Yeah, right. She's like, I'm, it doesn't matter what happens. I'm a, I'm a Hall of Famer. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Which is true. I guess it's hard to argue. They've won. They used to, they used to win all the time. Which is part of the problem. Because now they're not. But. Yes, talk to me. Please. About the Dallas wings and the Golden State Valkyries. Yeah. So we're recording this obviously before. Yeah. Which I. From the future future. Future me. I guess past me. Thanks. The Valkyries are going to win. So future me is saying now the Valkyries have moved on to the next round. But actually, I would, I would be shocked if people are listening to this Thursday. And the wings pulled off. A win. Because the Valkyries have been so good all season. I know we just said that about the lengths. But. But the Valkyries. But the Valkyries. Here's one thing though. The links. Yes, they had good vibes. Those vibes were starting to get a little bit sketchier towards the, towards the end of the regular season. Valkyries. Have had. Just pretty much immaculate vibes the whole time. I would argue. Since they were founded, I would say. Like the vibes. They, they did a really good job. Like they really. Yeah. And the team and the marketing and like players really like playing there. It seems like. And that they're, they've been able to attract free agents because of how they do business. They did have like the last game of the regular season. The vibes were pretty bad. Like they almost lost. Okay. Final month to receive. I know it doesn't matter. It happened like midnight on like last Thursday. So we don't have to talk about that. But. Okay. Basically, all you need to know. Charlotte is like their defense is incredible. They play a different way than like most. Every other team does like they have a lot of players that substitute in. Because they're like their whole thing is like their defensive efficiency. They are they're like a suffocating defensive team. But also unlike pretty much every other team in the league. They don't have. They don't have like an Asia Wilson. Like they don't have someone who's doing that every single night. They have a lot of players that all and they also shoot a ton of threes. One of their best players isn't even a starter. And Janelle Salange comes from off the bench. But like they just have a very unique style. And Natalie Nicosi there had coach. Was an assistant with the aces before she got the job. And she's been coach of the year. Like material for the entire time. Like they've just. Really done a lot with. You know, being an expansion team and having to start from scratch with a brand new team. Like it's they know what their identity is. And they really like. Just kind of like work and practice that over and over and over again. But like the issue of them not having like a quote unquote superstar is sort of. I don't know if it's really up for debate like Gabby Williams is their star player. She's an all star. She's great. But I don't know like. She she can go through stretches where she's not shooting great. And she can also give that like in the sparks game. I was just talking about she can also come in and hit two game winning threes at the end of the game. So like they do have star power. It's more so like there's no like Kelsey Plum on this team, I guess. Which was someone that the people thought they might try to tell you for the track line. But yeah. It is interesting. This is one of those. Again, such clear cut situations where a good work environment can lead to good results. You know, like that's what it definitely seems like. We talk about this on the show a lot where it's like, you know, if athletes are employees, these teams are employers. Everybody I think as an employee of a place you want to feel that there's strong leadership. Yeah, bought in strong leadership. You want to feel like to your point, the front office is fair. It's much easier to the only way I guess here's how I would put it. The only way to have a team that doesn't have an Asia Wilson or Brianna Stewart or one of those names where yes. Gabby Williams is amazing, but doesn't have one of those players. The only way you can have success is if you are organizationally buttoned the heck up. You know, like you've got to you've got to have a solid foundation in order to be able to do what they're doing. Reading the wings in the first game, obviously, you'll know what happened. So 104 to 80 with a 37 point second quarter. That's crazy. And then on the other hand, you have also because like scoring a ton of points is not really their thing. Right. As you were saying, the defensive suffocation. And then you got in that first game, just Shepherd scored zero points. That's tough. That's really tough. Arika, a Gumball, I had 10 and it was a kind of thing where. Remember when Giselle said about Tom Brady, she said my husband can't throw and catch the ball at the same time. That's kind of how it feels about pagebackers right now. You'll see what happens, but it's almost not even worth talking more because like either either by the time you're listening to this. It's over. I would say someone someone talk about Detroit shock. They Detroit shocked us. I would say in the wings defense. First year head coach Jose Fernandez, he's also been he's in a very stiff white-esque position where like he's under a ton of scrutiny. Um, coaching, you know, two of the most popular players on the league page and AZFUD. And they also had a lot of injuries this year. Yeah. A lot of Smith being out for the series is a big deal. She was not having the best season, but like they spent a ton of money on her very expensive contract and like it took her a while to really start playing well. And then she got hurt during the World Cup break and they definitely like could have used someone like her against the bell. Yes, yeah, the Valkyries were pretty decisively one, one of their games against the wicks during the regular season though. So, but then yeah, AZFUD obviously got hurt. Yeah, they shut her down. So she, yeah. Yeah, it's been, it's been a bummer. But like I would say the trajectory of the franchise is like up a straight line because it was so bad before. And that's something that I think people need to like. You know, I understand like page is this is like prime time where you got to win as many games as you can while you have her under this rookie contract and like it's going to get more expensive now, but. I'd also say like, yes, I think probably some mistakes were made in roster building and like. For all of those issues, they still were really fun team to watch the season. They won a lot of games. They obviously made the playoffs and they were kind of right in the mix with some other really good teams throughout the entire year and have a really tough first round matchup against. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They really did. There was an interaction. Did you see? So the Valkyries had Megan Rapino former soccer star. Right. Is it, okay, let me ask you a question. When you say you've got Megan Rapino. Is it, is it former soccer star or is it kind of like like once you're president, you're always a bit like president. Is it like soccer star, Megan Rapino or is it? I think soccer, I think soccer, current soccer, she's still a soccer star to me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so so anyway, they had her bang the drum before the Valkyries game, get the crowd fired up. Megan Rapino famously dated suburb for a long time. Yeah, suburb great player for Seattle icon running USA basketball. But, or that's not her title, but you know what I mean, I can't think of what is her title. She's like the player like, I don't know what her official title is. Sure. She's doing stuff for them. She's helping put the roster together. No, no. Super and Megan and Piano were together for a long time. They broke up this past year managing director. - That's what it is. - There you go. Thank you, managing director. They broke up. Super went to the University of Connecticut. Maybe you've heard of it. As did Paige Becker's. There was an interaction between Megan and Paige. So Megan was like out on the court to fire the crowd up before. Obviously she was there on behalf of the Valkyries, Paige is on the wings. So maybe that answers the whole thing of this, which is like you don't want it. But Megan tried to say hi to Paige and like sort of like tapped her. Paige turns around and just kind of looks at her. And I was like, oh my God. This is the look of someone who's not on your side of the breakup. - She gave her like this smirk. - It was kind of like the kind of like flat. - Yeah, it was like, awkward smile thing. I don't know if the Midwest can claim that, but I'm playing it. It's the face that I make when I'm walking past someone and I'm like, oh. We just went right back to there. - There was also a little twinge of like, okay. - Do you know what I mean? - It was like right before the game was about to start. So maybe she was just like what? - Exactly. - But yeah, it was awkward 'cause it was on the jumbo tron. Like they looked like they were like broadcasting this out to the crowd and it was a weird moment. - Sure. - And I guess to that, I'll say it, of course, this could have just been a nothing moment or like a small interaction where, but if it is that Paige like sues my friend, she's in my tribe and I don't like you right now, that's an incredible just public moment. That's really, because Megan was really going for it. And that's the reason I don't feel too bad. It's like she kind of, even if like don't do that before a game to anybody really. - Yeah, it felt like maybe she was doing a lot doing too much, but yeah, I still like Megan, so. - Same, same. I do too. Look, I don't have a horse in this race, but I do think it was fascinating to see that moment and it probably means nothing as most of these things do. - All right, let's round this out, Jess, by talking about your Washington Mystic. (laughing) Sonya Citron is one of their young stars, if you will. Notre Dame, great. Tell me why you love Sonya so much and what you think, obviously this is also a game, Mystic Stream, this will have happened by the time. - And I really hope it goes to three, but yeah, the Mystics are just like there are a lot of fun. Like they drafted Sonya and Kiki Yerefen last year and immediately like turned around the trajectory of the franchise because they played so well that like it, it like hastened their timeline to compete for championship, which is very cool. And yeah, Sonya went to Notre Dame. She's just like a really perfect basketball player. Like she does everything right. She's a great defender, a great shooter. She's just got a beautiful shot. Like she's just all around like a very enjoyable player to watch, can get to the line, like drive to the basket. So like she just does like all the little things right and is just very good at everything, really. So as you can tell, I'm a fan, but they are just fun because they are so young. Georgia Amor is like another player that a lot of people will be loved from college. - I love her in college. (laughing) - She tore ACL like right before the season last year. So this is really like her first, this is her rookie year, this is her first year playing. And she's definitely had some ups and downs this year. Shakira Austin, who's also really young, who's like one of the most senior players on the team, is been like playing out of her mind the last few months, which is why I really hope that they won last night. - Yeah, I would love to see another Mystics game because the three of them have been like Sonya Kiki and Shakira have just been like a great complimentary group where like Kiki and Shakira play like really hard in the paint and Shakira's footwork is amazing. Like her shooting has gotten really like really good. Kiki is a great rebounder, she's like a great passer and like Sonya can kind of do all the other little things and like they all kind of feed off of each other. So they're just a great little group. But yeah, like I said, like the timeline is still such as if they don't win a championship this year, which would be, I'm sure they have long odds to win it or have already gotten eliminated. - It's fine because guess what? The Chicago sky traded, they have a pick swap next year for the skies first round pick and the sky were pretty bad. So they're gonna get probably like the second or third player in the draft. - That's so crazy. - And add to their already super young stacked core players. - That's so crazy for the Mystics to get. I mean, it's also just wild for a Washington basketball team to be good. Neither, you know, the Mystics and the, oh my God, the Wizards. See, can't even remember their name. They've been really bad for a long time. So it's all always fun. - The Mystics have been bad for that long. Like they Elena Deldon, who like, oh, I forgot about Elena Deldon. - That whole era was not that long ago. - Was it not? When was that? - 2020, not 2019? - Yeah, 2019. - In my head, Jess? In my head, that was like 2013. I have such, it really does feel like it was, I bet it was before COVID and like everybody. - No, but that was like. - Before COVID really is. - That was basketball, Nija. If you ask me when, wow, okay. Sorry, nevermind, we'll move on. The dream. The dream, the series is either tied by now or the dream one, fascinating that this is Angel Reese's playoff debut. - Yeah. - I know that that's, you know, she hasn't been in the league that long, but it speaks more to the sky, perhaps, which I would like to talk to you about unless, because the sky, it seemed like a mess. It seemed like a mess. First of all, they were in that like temporary. They, didn't they, before the season, they practiced in a rec center? - Yeah, right. They'd like be in the locker room with like people who are members at the rec center apparently, like changing next to that stuff. - Right, right. - Yeah. - So they're like building this new facility that's apparently gonna be like amazing and it was supposed to be open by the start of the season and they told, apparently like told Skylar Diggins, it was gonna be open and it wasn't. And so that was something like she has been vocal about. And look, I, - Are you primarily a Sky fan? - Yeah, 'cause I'm from Chicago and I like this guy. And they're also a team that like, they won a championship pretty recently, but like the leadership has been very confused about how to build a roster for several years now. So it's like they've been trying to operate in like win now mode, but without a roster that can win now. And unfortunately, they made some moves before this season and then had a number of those players get hurt, like Ricky Jackson got hurt like four games into the season. And so I know like, I saw Natasha Cloud. I think in her exit interview was like, if like she never got hurt, we would have been a playoff team. And people were clowning her and it's also like, yeah, she definitely wants her to keep her job. And so like it doesn't, it behooves her to make the GM feel good about himself. But also like with how bunched up a lot of the teams were, it's not impossible that like, 'cause they did lose a lot of close games really on. And then obviously from that point kind of kind of cascades. So I'm not trying to like give them any credit obviously because the way they've managed their picks in the draft has been like pretty atrocious. I don't even really want to get into it. But they don't have a first-run pick next year and they won't have one year after that. So seems bad. It's disappointing, but they do have a really, I think like a great fan base. And the thing about like Angel that I think is really disappointing is that they drafted her and she did bring a lot of like fans to the sky with her. And it obviously didn't work out because she was very demanding of what the organization should be providing to her, which other players have been too. But the way she did it really rubbed them the wrong way. Understandably, I get that. But now she's on a team in Atlanta where she fits in perfectly. And I do like, it is just a real big bummer. Yeah, I'd be like if the bear is traded like Caleb Williams after two years of not making the playoffs and then he's playing somewhere else and is like crushing it. You know, for the Falcons. 'Cause like she was obviously a great player for her. They traded her like she was the bright spot on that team in many respects. So, you know, it's OK, I like the dream too. I mean, they're fun. There was really not many WMBA teams that I just don't like. And that's probably bad. We should probably have any-- Do you have any? That I-- Is there any team you don't like? Yeah. I mean, not. I mean, no. And I wrote for all the Notre Dame players and that they're kind of spread far along with you. But-- They are. That helps, yeah. But it's probably not good. Like we probably need more hate and rivalry, but not in like a, it's, you know, especially way. Not in a toxic situation. I don't even like the word toxic anymore. I do think that something that we need to figure out about women's sports. More people need to learn how to be normal about them so that we can have fun being like, "Oh, I hate that team." Do you know what I mean? Because with the W, there are so many people acting in bad faith who are like, "I don't like this player. I don't like that." Based on some garbage culture war thing that, like, out kick has published on the internet you know what I mean? But also, there's, like, so much college fandom involved in it too, like, the Yukon people and, like, this hotline, and, like, yeah, obviously, I just said, "I love Sonya because she's from Notre Dame, so I'm like a mystics fan now. I'm not, like, above it." You got people online, though, most of the time. No, you don't. I at least try not to. And if you do, they really deserve it. Right. Oh, yeah. Well, that's, I will call people out if they say something insane to me, but, really, I don't know. That's my, that's my limit. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, Jess, it has been an absolute pleasure having you on. I would like to have you back to talk football as well. Yes. You know, we did, we did never circle back to the Aaron Rodgers. That's right. AIDS, truth, or, um, situation, and I don't know that we even need to give him that air time. I'll just give you this. Actually, there's a podcast called Maintenance Phase that, like, kind of, like, debunks health and science, um, related, like, topics. It's a great podcast. Yeah. There are most recent episodes about people who don't believe in AIDS for whatever, it goes into the history of this whole thing. As I was listening to it, I was like, this sounds like something Aaron Rodgers has said before on, like, the Pat McAfee show. And at the end, the host was like, yeah, this gets into, like, a whole Aaron Rodgers thing. You're kidding me. You're kidding me. So much more sense to me. So you should listen to that because it did, I did understand one of his insane conspiracy theories by the end of it. This man, he's got to go to, like, a virology class or something. This man has to understand, like, how he has to take my freshman year, microbes and man class. Yeah. He does. That sounds like a great class. I would love, I would love to go back to college and take, like, random, you know, and I know that one, I know you can do that, but without, like, yeah, I just want it. But I don't want to have to do anything else. Right. Exactly. I was going to say without, like, having, but I did have a job. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. I can't thank you enough. I'm so excited for a future selves to find out what happened in those last two matchups that were growing there. And thank you, as always, everybody, I'm going to try to do the spiel of metal and usually it does, which is, please rate, review and subscribe. It really makes a huge difference. You can follow us on Instagram @sportsgossip on TikTok @sportsgossipshow. You can subscribe to our sub-sac @sportsgossipsportsgossip.com. You can see I really go somewhere else, though. I go somewhere else when she does this, but basically just follow us and subscribe and just where can everybody find you? Yeah. You can find me at, on social media, Jessica Smetana or College Whipple Happy Hour, my College Whipple podcast or my Notre Dame podcast, the echoes we do have our women's hoops on that, specifically Notre Dame women's hoops, and I'm on the Levitard Show one day week. You are the best. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you real soon. And that's our show. Bye. Okay. Bye. (upbeat music)