2921: Your FAT LOSS Stalled ! How Do You Fix it?

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The Apple Podcast winners are Nick and Linz and it's JohnnyVM. And for Facebook, we have Nick Choto and Doug Yoder. All four of you are winners. Send the name I just read to iTunes at MindPumpMedia.com. Include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at MindPump Store? I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to MindPumpStore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. You've been on a fat loss journey. It was working until it stopped. Today, we're going to talk about how to break through fat loss plateaus. We're going to give you some tips on how to get the fat loss started. Again, don't stay where you're at. That sucks. Let's get it moving. Yeah, let's go. Reminds me of one of the last seminars I did as a fitness manager. Stuck in a rut. Really? Yeah, that was the. Those are the posters you put around the door? Yeah, you remember that? Remember the little kits that you used to get when you posted around? Yes. I like this topic because this is inevitable, okay? So it's not a matter of if this will happen. This is going to happen. It's when and how hard. Right. And the typical. So this is what it feels like, right? You do your diet. You're doing your workout. You're consistent enough to see some fat loss. And the fat loss seems relatively consistent. So you're noticing the scale or you're noticing the calipers change and go down pretty much week over week. And then it doesn't move. And it doesn't move for a week. And it doesn't move for two weeks and three weeks. And you realize, wow, I'm in a total plateau. What do I do? Now, the typical answer is we'll cut calories and increase activity even more. Which, you know, that can definitely work, but that eventually also leads to a plateau. And when those two things stop. In other words, when cutting your calories more isn't realistic, and when exercising more isn't realistic, what do you do? How do I break this plateau? I'm already eating 1,500 calories, or I'm already exercising a lot. And if I drop my food even more, there's no way I'll be able to sustain this, or I'm going to feel terrible, or I'm going to lose muscle. Or if I exercise more, I don't think I can do that consistently. And I'm not going to like this. I'm going to hate this. And then I'm just going to rebound. Is there anything I can do, or am I done? Is the fat loss journey done? And the truth is, there are a few things you could do to get the needle moving again that don't include cutting calories and or dramatically increasing activity. Yeah, it's quite the opposite, actually. That's right. I think you should talk a little bit about what happens, I feel like, in. Why the plateau is there? Well, not just that, but this was so common as a young trainer, and your go-to method is. And I think it's so common. It's still in commercial gyms when you see people training clients that when this comes about, the levers that they always pull is the cut calories, run more. And I think that it's still prevalent. I mean, I was just in the gym the other day, and I see a group of people that are getting trained by a trainer that are trying to lose weight, obviously. And the entire hour is dedicated to just burn. And I'm like, man, they would be far more valuable for those people to be focused on strength right now than to be just trying to burn off the calories all the time. And so I think it's important to communicate how common this still is. That's right. So here's what happens. And this is a very oversimplified, super oversimplified explanation of the weight loss or fat loss process. So you are burning more. You're burning more energy than you're taking in. Or to say it a different way, you're taking in less energy than you're burning. This causes an imbalance in energy. Okay? So if I'm taking in 2,000 calories, and this is how we measure energy from food. So I'm taking in 2,000 calories, but I'm burning 3,000 calories. Well, the only possible way I could burn 3,000 calories of energy if I'm taking in 2,000 calories of food is if I'm grabbing that 1,000 calories from somewhere. Where is it coming from? Body fat, ideally. So that deficit or that imbalance has to be there for consistent weight loss or fat loss to occur. The reason why you plateaued is that balance disappeared. Or that imbalance, I should say, disappeared. There is no more deficit. Even though you're still eating the same amount and moving the same amount, your body has figured out a way to have them equal. So if you're taking in 1,500 calories consistently a day, and you're working out five days a week, doing lots of exercise. And that was working for a while, and now it's stopped. Here's what that literally means. It literally means your body has figured out how to burn what you're taking in. It has figured out how to survive and perform and burn 1,500 calories a day because that's what you're taking in. And that's what the plateau means. And so there's two ways we can get that imbalance to occur again. There's a few ways. One of them is, "Oh, I'll just eat less." "Cool. Got another imbalance." But guess what's going to happen now? We're going to get back to where we were before. My body figures out how to adapt in that direction. It's called metabolic adaptation, by the way. Second option is I could just move a ton more. Let me just keep moving even more. But believe it or not, your body figures out a way eventually to cause that energy to balance out again. There's a lot of different ways it does this. It could lose muscle. Muscle burns more calories. It could reduce activity when you're not working out in ways that you don't even realize. It could actually pull away from, in extreme cases, other functions of the body. You start to feel tired. You start to notice your hair looks as good, your skin, your nails. If this happens too aggressively, you can get sick, really burn out, type of thing. You could lose bone mass, okay? Now, and that's typically what you're looking at. So what we got to do is figure out how can we create this energy imbalance to occur again without necessarily having to eat less and exercise more. And I'll give you the first thing you can do, and this is the most effective. Build some muscle. Now, of all of the ones we're going to talk about, this one right here is the one that works the best and the most predictably. It's also the one that's the most challenging and the most scary, unfortunately. And that's to switch gears and stop being in a deficit and go on what we would call a mini bulk or a reverse diet for a short period of time. So this is where you take your calories, whatever you're eating, and eat more. Bump them up. In some cases, 500 calories. In other cases, as much as 1,000. And now you're going to try and build for the next week or two or three or four weeks. And then when your body's balanced out there and you've built a little bit, then you can go back on the cut. And this is really the philosophy behind a reverse diet and how it works. Yeah. I look at this a lot like even with lifting weights, there's safeguards, there's ways that the body protects itself from being injured and overextending itself in terms of dieting and dwindling down. Yeah. It's not just sitting down to an unhealthy place. Your body has safeguards there, and it's trying to preserve energy. And at that point, it's trying to keep what it can. So you're going to hit this stall because it's a safeguard. This is your body protecting itself. So to be able to move past this, we have to introduce a new standard for it. Yeah. I find one of the greatest challenges with communicating this, at least today, is our own fitness community. pushing back on how beneficial adding two to three pounds of muscle is yeah yeah um you know there's there's this ongoing conversation and debate around you know just how uh metabolically advantageous adding three to five pounds of muscle is to your body and you know you and part of the science community uh fitness science community is oh it's you know it only gives you an extra you know 10 to 20 calories at most uh a day the dumbest argument i've heard and it's crazy because um and what through what mechanism um this happens i'm not sure but it's not a handful it's hundreds of cases where i've seen clients who have just only added five five or six pounds of muscle but are able to eat a thousand more calories a day and not put on body fat yep so it doesn't math uh basically it's just a matter of how many calories you're eating a day and not put on now we can sit here and uh theorize the different things that are happening oh that person now is six pounds more muscle and so they're you know fitter um so they they they're more active throughout the day and so maybe that accounts for some more of the calories they now can they're stronger so they can lift more weight so there's been natural progressive overload that happens so maybe more calories are getting expended through there i'm not sure exactly where it comes from but i know for sure putting five to ten pounds of muscle on somebody's body is radically different metabolically for them yeah and it doesn't it and i hate when we hear people in our our space uh make the argument that we will have the science to support uh what every good coach has observed for for decades so we will have the science eventually to support it the problem is the metabolism is so complex and the inadequate to kind of capture what's going on but we do know this like here's a fact like your body can burn more or less calories with your current lean body mass you don't have to add muscle it could it could become more or less efficient well a lot of different to me to me so that's just another like another you know uh hole in that argument for them of like trying to make this argument that three to five pounds is exactly this or approximately this many calories when we know that hormones and stress can fluctuate how you you know how you burn calories in a single day you leverage you leverage insulin sensitivity you leverage mitochondrial uncoupling you your body we can become more or less efficient i've had clients add two pounds of muscle and boost their metabolic rate 600 calories uh from working with me we reverse diet people all the time uh this does work you guys and look here's the i'll explain it in a way that makes sense uh although i don't the science is going to be far more complex than what i'm about to say but here's the deal you're in a calorie deficit for too long your body doesn't feel safe uh burning tons of calories it's going to learn how to burn less calories a couple weeks of going on a small bulk tells your body hey go ahead become let become more become less efficient with calories burn more calories because we're getting food by the way bodybuilders have observed this for years they would do this is like an old bodybuilding trick where they plateau on a diet they'd have like a quote-unquote cheat day or weekend come back and they'd notice that they were leaner this is my favorite way to break a fat loss plateau because most fat loss plateaus don't happen when somebody's calories are still high this is rare it's not like i took someone from 3 000 calories at 2 500 calories they plateau this is typically an issue when someone's going down below 2 000 calories yeah that i have to start to do this kind of you know this under 2 000 for a female i'd say under 2 500 for a male yeah yeah you drop most males below 25 yeah you get down to 2 000 for a guy and it's oh yeah oh yeah for sure here's the next thing this is going to sound weird uh but your fat loss is stalled you can either add or take away cardio now this sounds like it's contradicting uh what are you talking about what do you mean add or take away cardio well it depends on the person you're doing no cardio you can add a little bit of cardio you're doing a lot of cardio take away some cardio yeah and believe it or not both will work for fat loss but let's explain a little bit okay the person is doing no cardio whatsoever adding a little bit of additional cardio a couple days a week or three days a week does increase uh predictably calorie expenditure it's very predictable obviously you're moving more you're gonna remember more calories uh pretty straightforward but what about the person we're taking cardio away from how does that help with fat loss well i'll tell you when i got someone who's doing six days a week of cardio and working out a lot and their calories are low oftentimes i take cardio away uh and i get i take away some of that stress from the cardio they build a little bit of muscle and i see some fat loss and i've seen that one time and time again nobody wants to do it when i when i suggest that everybody fights me on it yeah uh but i give two or three weeks and it's like i take it completely away but you know you're doing six days a week we're gonna go three days a week that's all we're gonna change let's see what happens and sure enough we'll see a half percent yeah sometimes that's what the body needs to recover fully and really adapt to build muscle that's right i used to always explain uh using cardio like nitric oxide for like the engine it's such it's it's such a great way to get that extra bit of boost and speed right if you're if you understand how nitric oxide works with an engine you get it's like you like a blast of cold air that goes in and out of your body and you're like oh my god it's like a blast of cold air that goes in there and you get horsepower but you'll blow the engine if you just keep you just run yeah you just keep running on it all the time and so somebody who's running on it all the time taking that away and then building the metabolism is going to be something like through through building muscle like your point someone who never uses it right and they save it and then all of a sudden they hit it you're gonna see you're gonna see a boost from it but it's short-lived just like nitric oxide is it's not something that you want to keep hitting over over over like that because eventually you will hit that same plateau so why when i used to compete my goal always for myself and my clients was how long can i get this person to lean out heading into a show without using any cardio so i knew at the last couple weeks if i needed to ramp it up a little bit or sharpen up a little bit i could hit that nitric on that last that last bit if we had been doing it and then you see this all the time with competitors especially like bikini competitors they're on like a 16 week prep and day one day one they're doing an hour stair master already it's like dude you're doing that so early we get in the final week and then we're like oh my god and we don't like how lean you are you we can't ramp it up because you've already used that up so i like giving that analogy to clients it's like that it is a powerful tool but it's short-lived what you get from the person who's not doing cardio right now is agreeing like oh yeah i'll add a little bit but i guarantee you the person listening right now is doing five six days a week of cardio yeah who stalled the fat oh no way they're listening to me tell them to cut their cardio in half and that'll help them fat loss and they're just not believing it yeah and here's what i got to say to you they want to fight you got nothing to lose uh you're already plateauing give it a shot uh worst case scenario does nothing and you can go back to what you were doing before um next up this uh i don't necessarily have a ton of science to support this but it's been done for so long by stage competitors and there's so many anecdotes surrounding this and i have personally experienced this that i do believe this to be a a kind of decent it's not as effective as the mini bulk but it's it's a somewhat decent way to break through a fat loss and that's to do carb cycling so carb cycling looks like this you do two days of very very low carbohydrates uh and then you do a day where your carbohydrates are high and you just go back and forth that's one way to do it and in my experience i've gotten myself that that final percent percent half of body fat when i've plateaued it you know something like five or five and a half percent body fat yeah i'm not sure if this is attributed more i mean i know that um most people say it's just you the calories that you're manipulating while while doing through that i don't know if that i had a lot of success doing this i liked it it also gave me something to look forward to on the on the psychological piece yeah yeah and and we talk a lot about that you know being such a big piece to this whole puzzle is like being able to the psychological game that you're constantly playing so it's it's different like i think sometimes when you're in this consistent deficit and you're consistently trying to lose body fat and you're eating the same calories every single day is just monotonous interruption yeah so it gives you a nice little interruption um i always too try to schedule uh if you know this is somebody who's doing this for body composition change uh i like to schedule the high uh carb days around like the muscle groups that i was really trying to work on or your big ones like legs big intense when you yeah when you needed energy like that i could really power through a you know upper body type of workout when um i'm low on carbohydrates it's not difficult for me lower body i need a lot more fuel and gas and so so i liked that part of it um versus just having this kind of consistent moderate or low calories and so i always had success with i like the psychological piece i liked uh feeling uh because when you when you go zero carb or low carb for two days things flatten out your muscles don't feel as pumped but you do kind of feel you lose water so you kind of feel like you look leaner then i do the one day that's high muscles get a bigger pump i don't necessarily hold water right out the gates so for like a short period of time i kind of look a little leaner in the mirror and psychologically that was always very motivating to me but i've i've done this and i've maintained the calories so i've done this where my carbs are low but my fats are higher so it's not like my calories drop yeah but i still find that it's and i've done this enough times where it's like i can get another half to percent uh body fat off myself just by doing this and i would i did this the times i've done this is when i'm like really low and it's when things are just really hard to continue moving well i like it too because uh anytime you remove something like that that could be a potential tool for you to really boost your energy and like a useful energy at that you know removing it sometimes you get somewhat uh i don't know if it's like adapted or you're just like you you're just kind of been doing it for so long you don't notice you know that that energy boost it's good to kind of like react to it totally and then last uh this is a this one this one's great for a few different reasons one um it requires you that you feed yourself a little bit differently which is good which is kind of similar to number one right go on the mini bulk two it takes your eyes off of the aesthetic, which I will never downplay the psychological when it comes to body composition change, because the psychological of all the things we need to consider, the psychological is the number one thing. It's the most important thing. I know this as a coach, like you get that solved. Everything else is easy. You can do everything else. Don't get that part solved and forget about it. So, and that is to focus on performance. You've been focused on fat loss for so long and now you're plateaued. Give yourself five or six weeks of a performance goal. I'm just going to get stronger or I'm going to improve my stamina or I'm going to improve my mobility and then feed yourself accordingly. How do I eat to improve this new performance goal that I have? And I'm going to do it for five weeks. I'm going to go back to fat loss after five weeks, but for the next five weeks, I'm going to give myself a break, mental break. I'm not going to weigh myself. I'm not going to look in the mirror. All I care about is this performance goal that I'm going to do for the next four to six weeks and eat accordingly. And this is a wonderful plateau buster. It's one of my favorite plateau busters because it's also a psychological plateau buster. You get out of your head, you get in love with performance, which is going to take you a couple of weeks, but then you'll see the gains of performance and you'll start loving it. And then you get back on your fat loss journey and it's fresh. It feels fresh again. More specifically, I love to pick an exercise you've either never done or rarely do and focus on that, right? Which is the same thing as what you're saying, right? You're saying, because someone might be listening right now and they're like, well, I'm kind of always trying to get a stronger bench and I'm always trying to get a stronger deadlift. So I'm never not trying to do that. And that's performance focused. And I'm still at a plateau. I'm not seeing anything. One of the best ways to break through a plateau and also focus on performance and see positive change in that performance is to choose something you don't normally do. If you don't ever do Bulgarian split squats and you suck at them, like great time to switch over, focus on them and see how good you get at them. And you'll see this. I love this. Even when I'm, I have somebody who is cutting or trying to lean out because even sometimes in a calorie deficit, we'll actually see state strength gains, which is hard to do. It's very hard to see performance and strength gains when you're trying to lean out many times. And so, but when you're doing a new movement, a lot of times you will see that performance gain, even in sometimes a deficit. And so I love to add in to someone's routine, just exchange a staple movement that you do with, something that you don't do and keep focused on that and getting better in that and watch how that helps all of these steps. Cause the last one we just mentioned kind of goes along with increasing your calories because you're trying to boost performance of all of these steps. The one that I was most consistent with, with my clients was this one that we're talking about. When I would have a client, we're doing fat loss. We're doing a good job. It's plateauing. It's frustrating, very frustrating. I would literally have this conversation with my client. They'd come in. This is week four or five. Nothing seems to be moving. We're definitely in a hard plateau. And it's, Hey, here's what we're going to do for the next four weeks, for the next 30 days, we're going to just focus on this performance metric. And I would pick, typically it would pick strength. Cause that's an easy one. So I said, we're just going to get you strong. And I want to get you stronger at this one particular lift, uh, specifically, and we're just for the next 30 days. That's all we're going to focus on after we're done. Then we're going to get back on the fat loss journey and they'd be like, well, I want to keep going. So we already plateaued. If we keep pushing, nothing's going to happen. So let's just have some, some fun for the next 30 days. And don't worry when we get back to fat loss, it's going to start happening again. And my clients would agree. We do it. We'd have fun. They'd get into the performance. Then we go back to fat loss and like magic, like magic, everything started happening again. You know, back to what you were talking about, about building muscle and how it contributes to fat loss. It's so funny, Adam, a study just came out, uh, and I'm, I'll pull it up right now on, uh, the effects of muscle building to fat loss. They actually, this is an actual study. Um, and this was, this is June of 2025. Um, and it's a peer reviewed study. The title of it is effects of skeletal muscle hypertrophy on fat mass and glucose homeostasis in human and animals is a narrative review. Uh, and this, there's some systematic literature search. So here's what they found. The analysis reveals that at 1.9 to 3.3% increase in global muscle mass in humans is associated with a four to almost 6%, uh, lower fat mass. In other words, as muscle mass goes up, fat mass tends to trickles down. That's right. This increase of muscle mass was associated with 23 to 22% less fat mass. So in other words, muscle does contribute to fat loss. Um, and in there they're showing how it affects, uh, glucose homeostasis muscles are. So glucose is, uh, obviously the sugar in your blood muscles are a storage vessel for sugar and carbohydrates, just like the liver. And as muscles, build a little bit, they become more insulin sensitive. They store more of that. And so you start to, you start to leverage the body more towards burning body fat, less towards storing body fat, more towards, uh, performance. Um, and so, and what we're finding, you combine this with other studies where they use strength training as the primary form of exercise for fat loss, even though strength training burns the least amount of calories, it's actually not a great calorie burner, but it's a great fat loss tool. How is that possible? Uh, muscle, muscle is very valuable when it comes fat loss. Yeah. I don't think anybody in the science community is would argue, obviously they wouldn't, it's coming directly from a study are going to argue that point or most of the points that are made around the benefits of building muscle and speeding your metabolism up. I just think that they, it's a classic example of when, you know, we want to be more right. And so when somebody communicates, Oh, I had a client who we built five pounds of muscle and they're eating a thousand more calories. They want to come in and be like, that's a bunch of bullshit. That's not true. Every pound of muscle is only this many calories. And what I, and I hate, uh, I hate when this is done because it, the average person that's listening, it's, it's been so difficult to get people off the, this hamster wheel of body composition change by just running and eating less calories and encouraging people to build into the body they want. It's, we've spent most of our career trying to make this case. And when you have someone like that from the science community that comes in, and uses studies to support a bunch of the dirt in the water, you do, you, you, you, you discourage what to, yeah, to be more right, bro. Yeah. To be more right. Doesn't help me, you know, to be, uh, you know what the challenge is with that? I know. So here's, here's the downfall. It's so funny. This is totally linked to that conversation. I was texting you guys, uh, the other night. Um, this is because people who are really deep in the science data and literature only use science, data and literature, uh, as their, their litmus test for truth. Everything else is, is, is just an opinion. There is no truth unless it's proven by a study. Okay. I get that. I get why somebody or how somebody could come to that conclusion, but here's the deal. You take a doctor, right? Uh, well-educated doctor, the most, the best doctors in the world, the ones that really do a phenomenal job are the doctors that know the science very, very well, who also have lots of, of experience. Nobody would argue that. I think everybody would agree to that, right? Yeah. They're the most educated, but also the most experienced. You combine the two and they just have a knowledge, uh, that is applicable, um, understands, uh, nuance. They're just that much better. Same for trainers. You can have a trainer who has got all the courses, certifications, know all the data studies, anatomy, uh, but they're not going to be a great trainer until they also get the experience. Now you combine both and it's amazing. The challenge was that anecdote and opinions, uh, you know, you would kind of, it was based off of your opinion of the people that you heard, or maybe your own opinion. And if I get an anecdote for one person or two people or three people, I mean, it could be anything, right? Is it true? I don't know. Maybe, maybe you just experienced it and you attributed your success to that thing. And maybe it was something else, but if you could compile thousands of anecdotes or millions of anecdotes, now we got something that points us in a particular direction. Right. So experience, uh, is that experiences. Well, I've been a doctor for 20 years. I've seen enough patients to know that the study says this, but here's what happens in real life. And it's kind of different, right? Well, we actually have an opportunity now, uh, to compile anecdotes to start to point in the right direction. You can use AI that way. And that's what I was tripping out over. I used AI the other night and I asked it can go on all of the fitness forums, for example, and tell me what, what does the consensus look like around what works for fat loss or what supplements are best for performance. Now take that, that data set and compare it to what the studies show and try to find the commonalities. And it's a remarkable, it's amazing. So if you just did that, listen, you could do that. Go, you could, uh, you could ask AI go on all the fitness forums, uh, for fat loss. Um, and what are people's experiences with reverse dieting? Do their metabolisms actually get faster? I bet what you'll get is a majority of people will be like, who did it right. They'll be like, Oh yeah, it totally worked. It totally worked. And yet the data and the science is yet to prove it yet to prove how it works or why it works. So, but I mean, Courtney, Justin's wife, was talking when we were sitting by the fire about her experience as a nurse, just like being very educated in the field. Oh, yeah. Yet they would take all these nurses with less education but that have had two years of experience because they did the intern or whatever like that for two years. And she's like, I mean, I think everybody would rather have that. I mean, I would always prefer a coach or a trainer who's been doing this for a really long time than all the national certs. Like, I don't give a shit about all that. If you have all the national certs and you've trained for six months or give me the guy or girl who's been training for 10 years, it's less like, oh, I'll take the one who's been helping people for 10 years. And what's crazy is that how few studies are repeated. So they'll have a study with a conclusion. Then someone else will repeat the study and it'll come to a different conclusion. Like, well, I guess. Right. Right. I guess that didn't work. Yeah. You know? So I know it's pretty crazy. Speaking of science and studies and stuff, we'll get questions on like skin stuff. We have a large female audience and they'll ask us like, what actually moves the needle the most for improving the health of your skin or the way it looks or whatever? And there's a few things you can do. But none of them compare. Besides being healthy, I got to say that, right? Being healthy is the best thing you can do for your skin. But the red light therapy is by far. Like nothing comes close. So by far. So another way to say that is the most by far intervention. Yes. So like nothing beats diet. Yes. Good sleep. Diet, stress management, exercise. That's right. Like that's obviously. Nothing touches that. Right. But the. But the thing you could do on top of that. Yeah. The greatest intervention. You get a juve red light panel within a week. Within a week, you notice a difference. Oh, I feel like within a couple of session or two of doing it, you can see it. Makes a huge difference. It moves the needle the most. So for people who want to change the appearance of their skin and make it look younger, like you get a red light panel, use that three days a week, bro, that's going to crush everything. I remember I think it was Mercola because way back when I was looking at like, because it just sounded like wizardry. It does. Yeah. And he was like really kind of challenging it and going through it. And the studies are so airtight. Yep. And it was just amazing. And they go back decades. Yeah. Way back. Oh, it's. Past the 70s. It's so exciting. Excepted, though. I mean, Doug, did you guys hear Doug talking about Brianna? He just dropped Brianna off at her new place. Oh, yeah. And they're like college campus condos or whatever like that. And inside their gym is red light therapy. Oh, yeah? Wow. They have a room dedicated to red light. Oh, wow. Yeah. No, it's full. I mean, it's full. Yeah, recovery rooms and stuff are getting big in gyms now. Everywhere. It's really. It's so not uncommon to see. In fact, most all your big name gyms all have it now. Yeah. Yeah. It's just so crazy to think that, right? Because the studies go back pretty far. You talk about McColl and stuff like that. I mean, he's been talking about it for a long time. Red light studies go back to the 70s. And then I remember when we first met with Juve, like, I remember you going through the studies. You're like, man, these are old. These are studies way back when. So this has been happening for a long. But man, it didn't take until not that long ago. It didn't take because just 20 years ago, if you wanted like a legit red light panel like the ones in studies. Oh, yeah. You spend 20 grand. Yeah. So the only way to get red light therapy, you know, 20 years ago. 30 years ago, you'd go to an expensive salon that had them. And then you'd pay, you know, 50 or 100 bucks per session. Isn't it kind of typical, though? It's like, you know, the gym industry in itself was so focused on, you know, the workouts and like, that's the priority. And then all of a sudden we realized, oh, shit, like recovery is really where you get everything from. And so now they're just highlighting all the interventions instead of like the actual way to recover. You know, it's funny because the recovery means don't come here. I'm the gym. Yeah. Hey, go rest more. We want them to come. We want you here, resting. How do they recover more here? I know, exactly, dude. Did you guys see that? Here's a hammock and here's a red light, you know. Did you guys see the clip that Doug sent over of the experiences and like the hospitality? No, I didn't see that. Oh, it was a good clip. You guys should have watched it. It was a really good breakdown, just a prediction on the surge in hospitality. Yeah. So you're going to see one of the largest booms we've ever seen in hospitality. Oh, wow. And as AI becomes more and more popular, you're going to see a lot of more and more prevalent in our regular day. More and more people are wanting to experience in-person type experiences. And so hence the gyms exploding, wellness exploding right now and going that direction. But you say even like clubs and lounges and pool party places and what you see happening even like AVAC and stuff like that. You got to go to places there. It's just blowing up right now. And what it is, it's like we're using more and more. We're using more and more of this technology, which is great, you know, and everybody's starting to adopt it in business. Well, you have to go out of your way to build community and be social. That's just it. It just doesn't happen as a default of your life anymore. Yes. It used to be that way. It used to be your daily life included social components because you're just around people. Well, yeah. You go weeks without seeing anybody. No, no. A classic example of, I mean, as stuff that so many people have just now adopted is like getting Instacart or DoorDash, your groceries. I mean, there was. There was a time when, like, you wanted groceries. You had to go to the grocery store and you had to see other people and say hi and talk to a cashier. And, I mean, you could literally not do that ever again. And more and more people, I think, have adopted things like that. And I think you just take it for granted. You start to stack those things before you know it. I mean, go into the movies. I mean, see it even in my own son who will pass on going to a new movie release because he knows it'll come out at home and he'd rather watch the convenience of. And stream it from home. You know, it's just like you just more and more of these things that. Well, the norm. I hope that comes back. The norm used to be when you were a kid, there was nothing to do unless you went outside and played with the other kids. That wasn't that long ago. It was a few, you know, a couple of decades ago. But you just this is I want to hang out with. So I got to go outside. If you needed something, you would go to your neighbor and ask them, you know, the old, hey, do you have a can I borrow a cup of sugar? Yeah. You know, type of deal. And then most of society attended some kind of a religious. Service once a week, which is a big community thing. We worked with each other. So remote work is very common now in comparison to how uncommon it used to be. It didn't really exist. It didn't even exist. And it's and so and then on top of it, we were so entertained when we're alone that it kind of takes away the sting of boredom. And so, yeah, it makes sense to me that now services that organize social interactions are going to explode. And it goes back to the thing I think I've said on this podcast many times when we're when we're debating trends or societal stuff. And it's like we always allow the pendulum to swing one extreme. And then I feel like the I think this is a positive thing, right? This is the thing that I always makes me feel good about humanity is that as bad as it can be and that we talk about what things that are going on, we only let it go so far. And then I feel like the trend. Comes back the other direction now tends to counter swing really hard the other way. And that's kind of just what but I feel like that's kind of always what happens. And this is an example of that. Like we, you know, all this AI stuff's going and then, of course, all the fear mongering around it and like, oh, my God, we're all going to all no one's going to have jobs and everybody's going to be just no one's going to talk to each other. And it's just like, OK, yeah, maybe for a little bit, maybe all of us will experience a little bit of what that is. And then we'll realize like, oh, this doesn't feel good. I don't like it. Well, I like the direction that that Jim's. They're going. I really think it's cool. I think Jim's are going in a direction of socialization. So I wonder if you've been saying this and now after seeing that clip that Doug sent, I have kind of a different take on like, does it fully explode or were Jim's just smart enough to be the first to pick up on this trend of this like hospitality direction? And they're benefiting from being on the front end of this wave. And does. Other businesses like, say, the Ritz and companies like that and other companies start to realize like, oh, we're missing we're missing an opportunity right here to be be in the mix of this. And then does some of that market share get taken from the gym? I don't know how they'll take it. I think so. Well, I don't know, because Jim's are in a perfect position to do this. Like one of the things that so to be social without actually having an activity to do, it's hard to get people out of the house. To do that, like, hey, go hang out with people like, no, hey, go play pickleball. Okay. Or, hey, go hang out and do this workout class or join this hiking group or then, you know, maybe, maybe a reading club. I don't know. Maybe libraries will come back because of that. But my point is there has to, I don't see people just going out to be around people unless there's something to do. And Jim's are, you know, it's like the old country club model, except smaller. It makes me think too, because I've been watching, uh, on HBO, they did documentary on burning man and like, um, it's interesting to see like with the potential people like getting this crazy experience from it. It's really just human connection. That's been lost for them in like this, like bare bones. Like I have to like figure out how to interact with people and, and like the weather is crazy and this is crazy. And then, you know, and, and we're appreciating people's gifts and art and stuff that they're bringing here. Obviously there's drugs, sex, and all that kind of stuff, you know, they didn't really get into that in the documentary, of course, which I was like, I was just, yeah, I was curious, curious to watch it from a far as I've never been. I know, you know, Doug's been there, Doug's been there. probably chime in but uh it looked cool like yeah he's got a lifetime membership i understand the appeal of it it being like you know people really like dedicating like this this idea of like a like a piece that people are going to benefit from and it's like outside themselves and they're just thinking of other people really in a sense and uh and then i was like man i wonder if because this documentary guarantee is going to blow up even more people are going to go yeah yeah you know uh because of the way they portrayed it uh but then also it's like you know in the 60s there's this big revolution and stuff where people are hanging out and like it's like free love and all it's like i wonder if there's gonna be like an underground kind of hippie thing i i think so i think i think that's a pretty good speculation i think what sal had been calling and noticing about in the gym space for a while now and what we're seeing and the reason why we saw them is because the people that probably were the most resistant to uh being anti-social to uh are the wellness and fitness people because they're aware of how unhealthy that can be everybody else is like cool new technology oh cool they're not like if you're not a fitness person you're not thinking of the unhealthy things of ai you're not thinking from that perspective fitness and health people are understanding that right so i think what they did was they caught the front end of a wave a wave that was going to happen with or without them and they are and they're benefiting from that right now i agree and i also think gyms are one of the few semi-social places that are just like that on accident yeah like there's very few gyms i don't know of any gyms that you could sign up or you're the only guy in there well it's like everybody's there to improve themselves you want to be around that kind of energy you know and it's like it's really hard to find that uh available until people come up with other places for you and it kind of happens on accident like if you go to a gym and you're consistent you're probably consistent on the same days in the same times right so you're probably consistent monday wednesday friday at five o'clock and you're consistent on the same days in the same times right so you're consistent at five o'clock or whatever you start to recognize the same people because the people are also consistent also go at the same time you do right every time you got their own and so what naturally happens i know this is i ran gyms what naturally happens is you might go in with zero intention of building community you're just like i gotta get in shape yeah but you go at the same time same days every week and you're very consistent because you're trying to get in shape and you see the same people and before you know it you give them a head unconsciously you're motivating somebody else that's right you talk to them next thing you know you're part of the 5 a.m crew or whatever you know every gym has this so i think that gyms just naturally were doing it on accident and they're like oh wait this this might actually yeah i think they i think they did they saw it leaned into it and they and they're riding the wave what i'm curious about because i'm trying to i don't know yeah what's going to compete with that well yeah well i mean there's a lot of things right now gyms are bars bars are going down but i bet those go back up that's what this the prediction of this guy is he says bars oh yeah oh yeah bars all those things because people are going to want they'll come back which i tell you what i mean as somebody who's an investor would be a smart player right now because they're probably discounted because of the down downturn of do you know how big of a piece of uh english culture i know this is my family my wife's family's british how big of a part of their i don't know if it's still this way it probably still is but how big a part of their culture that pubs are oh yeah where like after work every day every day you go to the pub and you socialize with your friends and you go home well wasn't it was it you or was it my my other buddy who was out uh out that way don't they do a thing where like uh they at one or a certain time they close the pubs but they keep it going on inside so it's like if you're partying in there you're going at night yeah so they it'll go all it'll go all night but then you can't leave a certain time yeah you can't drive you they lock you in yeah so it's like at one o'clock it's like you either stay or go you know i'm saying but if you want to keep going we're going but then the door's shut you gotta stay or some shit to prevent like drunk driving i don't know i don't know i thought i thought justin was the one that told me that i think so yeah i'm trying to remember i think it was might have been ireland but yeah yeah i think it's i don't know i thought i thought someone else oh that's interesting i mean talk about a pub culture or drinking culture where that's like it could be a norm interesting you're staying all night let's go all right and people actually actually do it but i don't know it so lock the doors yes the traditional pub lock-in is a real invite only custom isn't that interesting it says it is an after-hours gathering of trusted regulars not a legal practice because serving alcohol after official licensing licensing hours is generally illegal ah okay then bartenders lock the doors to stop new customers from entering while allowing the most loyal patrons yeah the patrons to just get smashed and sleep real alcoholics you guys are gonna stay amateurs can leave you know that's crazy uh yeah united kingdom and ireland so that's where it's at yeah did you guys see the video of the 16 year old lifeguard yeah saving yeah actually give me anxiety watching it bro first of all how old was the kid that he saved oh 13 13 i think something like that 12 13 obviously younger but he's 16 yeah dude he's out there diving just weathering it and the the waves were nasty well so the way the waves i i don't know i don't know if there was some kind of storm like elsewhere where we got this crazy swell where it wasn't just like regular like swell coming in with waves it was like from multiple directions so you'd have one crazy on your toe another crashing and then it would it would be all at different times yeah and the riptide was insane i didn't know this was a sea seabright yeah this was in santa cruz he's a local hero am i saying that wrong is there a difference between riptide and undertow is that the same i think it's the same oh okay undertow was when your nail is well it pulls you in regardless as it's pulling you into ocean i thought you were correcting me on so i didn't know i was like oh shit is that not what is it i don't know i'm just seeing it a different way and a riptide are different water movements and undertow is a riptide or rip current is a strong narrow channel of water moving fast away from shore so they are different okay interesting well there you go i watched the video i think it was a combination of both right i mean i really i heard that you heard undertow did you did you know that the kid that he was trying to save had passed out yeah you could tell i mean i could tell by he he looked unconscious the way he was holding on to him and yeah diving the way he was pulling on his arm the kid was not like getting up himself i don't know how many seconds but he only had a few seconds to even just get up get air hold him and then boom hits him again multiple times so he's apparently a water polo player oh and apparently apparently too like this that wasn't even the craziest safe he made that was a bunch that day oh no way yeah there was a bunch we uh courtney and showed me a few no way they interviewed him and he was like yeah nobody was filming the craziest one i i was like he basically like recovered and went out and did it again oh wow wow so i mean this kid's a champion oh talk about he risked his own life to save some 10 year it was a 10 year old 10 year old kid he doesn't even know 10 year old but yeah i read an article i guess he's a water polo player and i forgot what position he played may say there yeah there's a position of water polo where you're constantly getting battered oh and well first of all it's like one of the most like physical grueling sports have you ever trained a water polo player have you guys ever trained one no i have yeah okay water polo players it's like they have the most brutal practices of ever yeah they're out there for hours and hours their stamina is ridiculous sure they get the crap so i mean and what goes on underneath the water is crazy dude i guess yeah yeah yeah yeah pinching and you know oh man whatever else but he got he got invited to the white house you guys know that oh he did yeah him and his family i guess he's getting an award or something like that pretty cool that's cool that's wild though that he had other saves that weren't yeah dude how popular do you think this kid is in high school right now he's 16 he goes back to school yeah oh my god that that well that brings up to like i've been watching this other like documentary is like the hundred foot seeking the hundred foot wave uh garrett mack mcnamara i think is how you say his name um it's interesting to to hear the whole origin of like big wave surfing because this wasn't like a thing for a long time until they figured out how to basically like tow them in with a jet ski oh because it was just like it was so dangerous and like to get out is like insane you really have to have like safety measures and so a lot of this was just like over the past you know decade or so has just been developing is like you know this brand new sport and so he's one of like the pioneers of this whole thing started in hawaii let's say he then he came over looking for bigger waves came over this is where he started to see too around the world you start to see even like plays like in ireland and like they have huge waves but like you know it's like freezing water and nobody's out there like you know oh i love the waves i love the surf in this weather you know they're seeking like these crazy like stormy waves uh but he's the one that found like nazare so this guy like what's this is in um uh what's what country is that that's like right next to spain portugal portugal thank you i was thinking i was gonna say peru it's not peru portugal um and uh so there's this one like point where um like the lighthouses gets these crazy waves to hit and i guess like because of this huge uh valley that that is really deep and then like kind of comes up like perfectly uh meets at this pinnacle like it creates like these crazy waves that could reach about a hundred uh feet high that's crazy and like people surf that so they never did they just like fishermen would go out there and there's all these stories of them like dying and like crazy stuff i mean falling off of a hundred foot you're dead right i think isn't 100 feet enough if you hit water after 100 feet you're dead i mean it's it's like literally like um a high-rise building yes look at the picture yeah are you doing it dude if you watch this you get like all the anxiety it's crazy to watch but so he actually had to navigate like when they would get these types of waves to come and form and like you know they went into a lot of the science of like you know the oceanography of like how you know when this is going to happen like what the conditions are going to be all this and uh you know laid the blueprint went out there himself you know and almost drowned a few times and and then they figured out how to like get spotters uh outside and they would like have bullhorns and and tell because you know the person that's on jet ski can't find him right away he only gets a few seconds where his head's like popping out and so they like you know direct them god and like it was just amazing to see how this all developed to even be able to surf that for one and then they start breaking records there it's uh with like the biggest waves ever was it was it was this an older documentary is it is it's pretty new oh it's really good dude and I'm not sure if it's a good documentary but it's a good documentary I'm not sure if it's a good I'm not doing it in justice it's like they go through this because I've watched an older one of it I watched an older one but I don't this must be like a new record huh yeah so he's still called 100 foot wave he's a psycho he's still going for it and he's a he's an older guy that's that's my biggest like fear my like one of my most my biggest kind of normal natural fears is water and that right there in particular being out in the water with crazy with a crazy wave yes you ever watch videos of like uh ships massive ships in the ocean oh yeah storms yeah and the and you you'll see from the from where the captain is and how they'll go over a wave like this and just it's like they fall off a cliff or you see like this they're like it's completely sideways the wave coming over the top of it dude this is one clip of of and so he had got all confident because he had like mastered like nazare and all this he went back to mavericks and mavericks is like huge waves too but like you know it was like overconfident because he's this is no you know no big deal didn't get towed in ended up doing it without getting towed in so he was a little bit like late on the on the break of it yeah and just just the crest of it smashed down and he ended up like skipping like a skipping rock boom boom boom and like totally obliterated uh he broke all kinds of bones and everything and i was like oh my god it was it was what's what's wild is how uh is that people do that how great well yeah how crazy it looks from our perspective so have you ever been on like um when you are being under it it's so different it's so different oh yeah so like when you're like it's like when i don't know how many times i've like gone to go like ski something that's like a like a double black diamond or something and when you're like looking at it from afar it's like that's not that bad and then when you get over the top of it and you look and you go down whoa and you're looking down oh my god it's a so i can't imagine like hairs on the back of my neck oh yeah it has to probably it has to feel similar to being on like the top of like a crazy high-rise building skyscraper like you're like oh it's probably what would that what's that called pro surfing what's that called that does that yeah it's big wave surfing big wave surfing does that have a high death rate yeah i mean they've had deaths for sure um i don't know what the rate i think the highest is what the squirrel suit people it is where they jump and yeah yeah yeah remember that documentary we're like like over half had died yeah that was something something crazy like that the overall death rate for surfing including big wave surfing is statistically extremely low yeah 10 to 20 fatalities globally per you know why though yeah but they're counting everybody well it's because nobody does it nobody does i know yeah yeah there's not a lot of people doing it i don't know mavericks is at half moon bay you didn't know that no you've never been up there no you gotta go up there dude when they have a six wall it's really cool does it just look crazy crazy yeah oh yeah you get oh my god you get a real feel for at least even from if you're close and you're watching them come in like you're like i can't believe anybody's out there right now this is insane oh that's crazy yeah um adam i was i heard you off air before we started the show you were talking about the protein cereal from legion what are the macros on that they're really good you know yeah they're really good a bowl ends up being like close to like 40 i think i want to say like well with the really you get oh yeah i mean a good it's like a good size bowl for me can you find the macro i got it right here one serving 170 calories 17 grams of protein so 17 grams of protein 15 grams that's like that's like a half a cup of cereal or quarter or one one and a quarter cups yeah so that's not even a bowl of cereal a bowl cereal a bowl wow it's got seven to eight grams of fiber in that serving so you could do 35 grams of protein you know two of those and you would have 16 grams of fiber with the that it's got a it's got to produce some good satiety i would imagine it is good what legion did really good is a lot if you i don't know how many protein cereals you guys have tried i've tried a bunch of them um they get stuck in your teeth they're really like the tech they just because they're tough they nailed the texture it doesn't get all uh-huh uh-huh it's like the the cereal what's the protein it is a way it's got to be way most likely i believe so let me just check it's most likely that it's most likely that i've tried so i can't do dairy right but i've tried plant-based protein cereals gross i got they're terrible they are terrible i got my um my digestive enzymes that you had me get yeah you know it's uh so does it help you it did i had i mean i had so i had it vitamin d milk and so that would be an example and a big bowl that's a lot of dairy for you it's just a lot in one shot and it never i could do it but like i definitely felt way better taking those what i noticed so i didn't know and now i know why you take so many of them only one pills per five grams of protein yeah so you gotta take quite a few of them so i gotta get a much bigger bottle than what i got i just also really to be honest with you i just overdue supplements i don't really well no it's it says it says my one's good it says it says on the bottle that one pill should for five grams of protein so if i have a 50 gram protein meal that's 10 so you gotta take 10 pills yeah i only took six i'm like i don't want to overdo it the first time and who knows what the opposite was so i was like let me ease into it and so i took six with it and i was like oh wow that was really that felt really good so that's gonna be like my new thing is to try and be disciplined to the times that i do have you know what i did the other night because dairy for me is the war of all the things that can bother me i can get away with gluten a little bit you know now nowadays now that my gut's a lot better dairy i just gotta stay away from it just it's it's gonna hurt me no matter what but uh what i did the other night because i don't have dairy is i ordered my wife called it salami bread because i ordered a pizza with no cheese and i know that when i send that order can you do that you for sure the guy making it is looking at this going what i feel like the guy who makes the the pizza with no cheese is like the guy when my wife orders a well-done steak at a steakhouse like this the chef is like this this is yeah this is absolute sin you know what i'm saying that's he's like grilled and burning this smashing in there the pizza guy's going like what kind of more yeah the pizza guy's what kind of more on no cheese i've heard of an all cheese pizza but no cheese it's literally a piece of bread with sauce and then it's like salami sausage all those it's like it's like is it okay how's your salami bread i'm like it's not bad i kind of want to try i'm curious i mean it's still good it's not pizza yeah it's not bad so the gluten actually isn't as like because if you're going to compare the two in terms of dairy's worse dairy's worse okay yes gluten will do to me is it'll uh i'll get inflamed a little bit if i eat a lot of gluten to hold water you guys will see it i'll come in here and you guys like what happened to sal's face yeah like uh but it'll jordan peterson it'll con thanks for pointing that out i'm so glad we pinned that i'm just saying it's not like every time i see that i'm like what's going on there bro uh no it'll slow down my digestion at first so at first it seems like it's not bothering me but i'm slightly slowed down yeah let's just say that and then a day or two later then i have a bad stomach and it so it takes about a day or two dairy dairy is right out the gates pretty much like i'll eat it and then pretty much i'm not gonna have a good time for a little while so yeah oh wow interesting no i got something right now i'm uh dude so you guys know my my my squirrel issue that i had not that long ago so i have this where you're where you're going to battle with the squirrels yeah because i lost i'm not going to battle i lost it's already over war's over war's they are they got them all they won until next year so the we're uh we're the battle is lost but the war is still going there you go yeah yeah i definitely lost this battle there's lots of deer this year but i've got a new one on me right now that i have and i and i i'm not 100 sure i'm pretty sure it's my neighbor's cats they've got they've got three cats at that roam and and uh he he or i'm not sure uh pisses on my car on top of my car no they don't yes of all places the same car the same car only one car oh my god yeah only one car mine the one i'd be most upset the one i'd be most upset about so bad right now dude the first like the first three the worst if you ever piss on anything of adams the worst would be his car what is so weird on his clothes it's on the it's on the back of it on the top and uh and cat pee smells it is it is the most annoying and it is consistent as hell every every if i if i don't cover so i cover it most of the time but then i uncover that yes and it's in the same spot in the back and i i thought it was birds i thought it was birds that first started happening i told katrina i was like you watch on the camera so well so originally the way i backed the way i backed the car up i back it up so that my old car the overhang of the house. Of the overhang of the house. shades the car for for most of the day so i back it up so i thought it was a bird that was perching sure and pissing down and i'm just like oh my god what is it and it only started happening when i when i had that car didn't happen in any other car it's only this car doesn't like your car and so i thought what that is so weird and so it happened three four times in a row and i'm like i'm complaining katrina i'm like well this sucks the whole reason why i back it up so i get that shade now i'm having to pull it out so i don't get the shade so i don't get but then the piss is still coming so i'm like okay there's no way a bird is still hitting it perfect like that after i've now moved it because i thought it made sense if it was perched and that was about the but then i moved it forward five feet and i'm still getting the piss in the same spot of the car every so day and so it's like it's got to be these cats because i've seen the cat's paw prints before on like the hood of the cars when they're dusty or whatever so it's got to be cat i love when your car starts still warm mine always like tries to get on i'm like no oh maybe that's well the engine's in the back where's the engine yeah that's where the engine's at but because it's mid-engine but i'm not driving it like it's i don't drive it as much it just doesn't like your car dude it's only that one it is only none of the other ones on camera well no i've been i've tried to catch it but the cats are sneaky enough they don't set the sensors off so they're ninjas yeah so there's no sensor just pee yes if it's a demon cat d i'm so angry though it's so it's so i had some pet piss problems uh as of late that's a triple p yeah triple p dude that came out this problem his problems uh and i we're speculating too like it's so my dog arlo he he likes peaches he likes plums he likes us and i'm always like putting them on leash now because he'll take off and go down to like the junior high and like eat out of trash cans and stuff like that and i'm always like putting them on leash and he's like a real problem and so i'm always the one that's like consistently putting them on the leash and this and that and courtney sometimes just like ah you know just like lets him out i'm like what are you doing you know like you know where he's gonna go and uh sure enough he goes down he like he's just eating like all these peaches and and plums and all stuff comes back his breast smells like like fermented fruit you know anyways he's sleeping the other night and it gets like full moon and two in the morning gets up just peeing all over like you know next to my side of the bed in the house in the house in the house oh my god he never does that like you know hasn't in a while at least and just like there's just this pot i'm like oh no we're just getting up trying to get towels clean the whole thing you're not taking them outside bro that dog how do you hate that dog bro he's done so many things to you listen bro i yeah all right and it it like i don't know what to do like because i can't like just get i'm like looking for places that would like take them in you know like i'm that guy i'm like looking for people hey you want a dog he's like really sweet you know like he's great but he has a little like corks little problems here and there but you like to wrestle skunks he pisses in your house remember he looked at justin in the face and crapped in his shoe yes while he was looking him in the face yeah yeah right when i was walking that was i would have lost that dog camp in a long time i just i i feel like he's my rage training he's my rage training you know so i don't you know i actually like i'm more prone to like ah and i just hold back with him i feel like he gets that out of me so i'm not like that with my kids and i've held myself from like destroying him you know i'm like ah but i don't you know we're i work through it my my my wife thinks that it has something to do with the way i but where i am with nature you know she's a little more woo than i am right so she's like this this question back yeah the squirrel thing was because i killed the squirrel like we never got that much like we would get we'd lose some peaches but she's like once you killed the squirrel then they all went back and told the rest of them and now they ate all of our peaches and so she's in the cats so back uh so if i don't know if you have like the planet on avatar like all nature now yeah and so so in my backyard in my backyard i have all this uh i have uh white cushion furniture which you know is already tough to keep clean so that and if i if i don't put if you ever come to my house you ever notice that and if you guys have ever noticed this when you come in the daytime if we're not out there with a party my cushions are all up i tilt them all up like this and the reason why i do that is because those stupid cats will sleep on them then i get cat hair all over my all my furniture so i gotta do that every night if after we have come with i gotta put all the things all up so so a cat won't sleep on there also he'll sleep on it and so anytime that cat's in my backyard i yell at it throw a rock at it do whatever like that just shoot out of shoot out of our backyard so he knows he's not welcome there and so katrina thinks that's why he's pissing on my car now so that's what it that's so i bring on the squirrel eating all of our peaches i bring on the cat pissing on my car and so i know i don't know what to believe anymore did i ever tell you this might be a horrible story to share but i'm gonna share it anyway this is like just a disclaimer this is old school like i guess sicilian justice i guess you would say when we were kids so i was young we went to sicily to visit my dad's parents now remember these are my grandparents they're not alive anymore but they're like old school poor sicilians okay so that's just the just everybody picture this okay we went to visit them uh and we were there for i think it was like the whole summer it's like two months or something like that and there was this dog that the neighbor had and it was an aggressive dog so when we were outside playing we were there for i think it was like the whole summer it's like two months or something like that and there was this dog that the neighbor had and it was an aggressive dog so when we were outside playing the dog would you know bark bark bark and then like scare everybody well anyway apparent my grandfather hated that dog because that dog had uh tried to bite one of his other grandkids before and he said if that dog bites it tries to bite anybody else i'm gonna kill that dog he remember he told me that so anyway we were out there playing and we went inside my sister was still out there she started screaming the dog came out their garage and bit at her ankle and then the neighbor comes out my grandfather comes out and he was remarkably i remember as a kid i'm always gonna fight my grandfather come out and fight this guy he's calm he was scary calm he was like he looked at the guy and he shook his head and he kind of like wow he didn't even get no no didn't get and he had a bad temper he's like you didn't get mad or anything it was weird the dog died a few days later oh i'm pretty sure i'm pretty sure you're my grandfather did something oh i'm pretty sure i remember i remember you know because he was so calm he came inside dude he came inside you know i remember we're all hanging out we're having dinner this is like that dog's not gonna bite anybody yeah exactly and he says it all he drops it like that all covered oh that dog will never bother anybody again you notice how quiet is it outside it is outside like what are you talking about that dog has died he died like what do you mean he died i don't know oh my god sleeps with the fishes what's going on here dude oh man anyway i don't know if he did it or not but let's just say there was no 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fatty15.com slash mind pump that's fatty15.com slash mind pump and on that link you get yourself hooked up and use the code mind pump at checkout for a discount here comes the show our first caller is amber from texas hey how you doing hey guys i'm doing pretty good a little nervous oh that's all right so what's what's going on give us an update this is what 30 we talked to you what a month ago yes it was so this is the third update um and since then i listened to the advice i'd like to say not half-assed at this time adam's so surprised i'm pretty sure we hung up and like she's not listening to us i didn't say that i wasn't gonna listen to you no i said that i think i said what i said in spanish was uh i'm afraid that they're going to what is the word in english scold me again oh but um i did lower the dose and then i've been off my glp i have gained weight i have i don't know how much because again i'm not weighing myself but the clothes that were falling off of me they fit now so my clothes are fitting better um and i'm getting stronger with my workouts i haven't changed my workouts and it could be the testosterone too but i've done that and i do have more energy so much so that i don't know if this is a good or bad thing but i really love dancing like it's my life and i've been able to have more energy to dance again so i've been given uh i've been asked to be uh to give some more dance classes so all right yeah i got off of it and i've gained weight not happy about it but i have gained weight amber great job yeah there's more in your email is it okay if i read a little bit of it yeah please it says that you're you're now working with somebody uh virtually uh to talk with the body dysmorphia and all that? Yes. So not too long after our conversation, our follow-up, I started seeing a different therapist through my work. And actually I did even mention you guys, I mentioned the podcast and I, cause I was telling her, this is why I'm gaining weight before the surgery. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have gotten off the GLP. I would have just kind of been going in the same trajectory and I'm actually meeting with her later today. So, you know, just to talk about why I have these feelings. I mean, my, my life is a novela, so she has a, her work cut out for her, but that is one of the things that we're covering. That's awesome. So Amber, great job. Yep. Really, really good job. And I just, just first off, I want to encourage you and then I'm going to prepare you a little bit. Is that okay? Okay. I want to encourage you because you did a very hard thing. You did a very difficult thing. You got off the GLP, you're eating more, you're not weighing yourself. And you're talking with somebody about some of these challenges. Now, just to prepare you, it gets really hard, about 60 to 90 days in, or maybe a little bit after that. So in the beginning, these changes kind of feel good. You're like, I got, okay, I got energy. Getting started is difficult. You got over that hump. And then what happens is we tend to fool ourselves because we're like, I feel good. I got great energy. This is awesome. And you start to compromise some of the things that you have decided that you're not going to do or do now. And it starts small, but then the compromises become larger and larger. And so I want to just encourage you. It will get more difficult. You may take a couple steps back, but when you do just, okay, I'm going to get back on. I'm going to do this again. Give yourself grace. That's what this journey looks like. It doesn't look like a solve. I'm good. It's awesome. It looks like, okay, things are good. I'm awesome. Oh, this is hard. Oh, this sucks. Let me do a little bit here, a little bit there. But if you get down on yourself and you start to feel shame, spiral really starts to accelerate. So you just get, you give yourself grace and remind yourself. And what might help is you say, oh yeah, Sal told me this would happen. This is expected. It's expected. It's normal. Let's get back on. Yeah. Well, I mean, you guys have helped me a lot over the years. I want to say I've been listening for 10, 11 years. And first you helped me with like not weighing myself. That was a big one. Cause I used to weigh myself. Like when I was in the real thick of it, I want to say after every meal, 10 times a day. And then you guys helped me focus on getting stronger so much so that I even did a power lifting competition. And then I did a power lifting competition. And then I didn't do well, but I did it. And then, you know, with not tracking, that was a big one for me. Cause I've been tracking for over 24 years. So I trust you guys. It's not always easy, but I do appreciate the help that you've given me, even if it's, you know, not something I want to hear, but I appreciate it. You're doing good. It's awesome. And Amber, we were just talking, we saw your name come up and then we remembered when we first, we met you, how long ago was it? We met you in person. Like nine, 10 years ago. It was when you guys had that live event in Encinitas. It was there. Like eight, nine years ago. Yeah. And I want to say that at the time I was the first, you offered me a free program. So, cause I was talking about the nonprofit work that I wanted to do, which I did end up doing. I'm actually a member of guardians of the children nonprofit. We're a biker group and we go with kids when they have to testify in court and stuff like that. And I've been able to do like some group fitness classes for those kids. And I've been doing a lot of nonprofit work and yeah, a lot of the, the, like the, the stuff that they want to do fitness wise, I'm able to help them with that. And a lot of the stuff that you guys have taught me, I've carried into that. Oh, what a good heart you have Amber. So cool. Yeah. So glad you're one of our listeners. Yep. Thank you. Thank you guys. I want you to reach back out if you need anything else. Okay. I will. All right. Keep focused on getting strong. You're doing great. Yeah. Let's go. My biker name is Flex by the way. Oh yeah. I love it. I love it. Good talking to you Amber. She's great. She's great. Yeah. She's doing good, man. And she's, she's definitely come a long way. And I, you know, the reason why I asked her how long ago we met was it's been a while. So it's not like, it's like she's progressed that entire time. Like she said, she's, she's moving along in the right direction. And, uh, I hope she listens to this afterwards, but you know, when you get in those tough moments, like think back how far. That was the, that was the Viore launch. That's right. We helped launch that store. The first physical store. Yeah. Yeah. How many years ago was that? Yeah. It's about nine years. And I mean, what's weird is we did that and now look how big they are. So I don't know. Some kind of weird effect after our next caller is Chase from Arizona. What's up Chase? Hey gentlemen. How are you? Good, man. How can we help you? Good. Thanks for having me on today. I appreciate it. What you got for us? I'll jump right into it. So I am a 34 year old father. Um, I'm six foot six. Sitting anywhere between 300, 310 pounds right now. Um, I played a ton of college athletics. Um, and I am just tired of being an overweight dad. Um, the reason I say that is because it was maybe, maybe too, too deep here, but about a year and a half ago, my oldest daughter got in a dog accident. She got attacked by a dog. And I just remember, uh, racing to the hospital with our other daughters. And there was nothing. I was just sitting there. I was just sitting there and there was no parking had to park so far away from the hospital. Um, and I had to carry them all in there and it was just exhausting. I had to stop a couple of times and it was frustrating to me to, to try to, to get into the hospital, to see her and help her and had to make stops on the way there. And it was, it was frustrating. Sorry. I guess a little emotional for me. Um, so I decided to make a huge change after that point. Um, listen to your podcast for a long time. Um, try to really get back into lifting. So for a year and a half, the goal has been just to get put on muscle, um, then to set a solid foundation. Um, so I've been doing that ever since. Um, I, a couple of years ago, probably four or five years ago, I did have some success with, with the keto diet. Um, I lost about 70 pounds doing that, but I hated how I felt and how I looked. I just, I honestly felt like, um, I, I felt like I looked the exact same, but just weighed less on the scale. I lost a ton of muscle. Um, it just wasn't a good experience since then. I've learned tons about health and nutrition, try to become better. Um, and again, just try to, to keep going from there. So my question for you guys today is I get super confused with all of the information out there in the world with, with calories and how much calories you should be eating. You know, I put my information into a calorie tracker and it's anywhere from 2,200 calories a day to 3,500 calories a day. I'm a bigger dude. So it's difficult to kind of gauge what what's correct for me and what's there. So, um, also protein intake. I mean, you, I know on the podcast, you talked about having the correct amount of macros and protein for your goal weight. Um, so I've tried to been eating 260 to 270 calories a day. And I've been 70 grams of protein per day. Um, not as consistent in that as I would like to be, but that's my goal for now. Um, easily every day I'm getting about seven to 8,000 steps. Um, so that's where I'm at. So I would love to figure out your thoughts on where to start with calories and just the overall, I feel like I am at the muscle mass that is good. And now I just don't want to start cutting down a little bit from here. Chase, uh, first off, thanks for calling in, man. And, um, you know, that story you said about, you know, trying to carry your kids, uh, into the hospital, man, I feel that that must've been very difficult. Uh, and the reason why I'm bringing you back to that is to help, uh, kind of start with the best starting point that I think is going to bring you the most success. Also considering you were an athlete and call it, by the way, what sports did you play in college? Okay. Okay. So I think this will help you a lot. Okay. What I'm about to say, cause where the, the origin of the motivation, I guess, for lack of a better term makes a big difference, uh, on success. The, the motivation that you have, the real core motivation is to improve your fitness. It's not to lose weight. The motivation to be able to do what you need to do as a dad or do what you need to do in life really has nothing to do with your weight. Now your weight will start to react to your improved fitness, but I think, especially as an, as a, as an ex athlete, and especially with that moment that you had, which, uh, it's, it's a very strong memory. Uh, I think the goal needs to improve your, the goal is to improve your fitness and allow your body weight to go where it goes. Does that make sense? Now what'll probably happen is you'll probably get leaner, right? You'll probably get leaner. You will. But if you can move and you got crazy athleticism and fitness, at, you know, 290 pounds, 280 pounds, who cares? By the way, your body will reflect it. You'll look more like an athlete. Get like, like you experienced when you did keto, getting smaller doesn't necessarily mean better. You lost muscle. You didn't feel good. Your fitness declined, even though you were lighter. So the goal needs to be fitness. And the goal with, with fitness, uh, with diet is what's going to fuel my endurance, my stamina and my strength. So if we start from there, now, if we start from, I got to lose weight, you're going to run into the problems you had before. We start to compromise your fitness. You start to compromise how you feel in pursuit of of a scale weight um which which can definitely happen does that make sense yeah that makes perfect sense then i totally understand you're saying uh before i started lift getting back into lifting heavily i was i was around 3 18 so naturally i've just kind of come down a little bit from i'm just lifting and doing trying to eat better whole foods and things like that so completely understand that yeah so so we could definitely do the whole tracking thing and all that i think you know i think 250 grams of protein is plenty oh yeah for you i don't think 200 to 250 yeah i don't think you need to go higher than 250 uh and if you get over 220 you're doing good so i would keep it in that range for a guy your size um so that would be really the only thing i would say you would track and then what you do is you eat only whole foods and you eat when you're hungry and then you gauge your performance your workout is also very important here because when we're training for performance and movement and stamina and strength workout makes a big difference uh how many days a week is realistic for you uh to go to the gym and i mean real realistic like you could be consistent don't give me pie in the sky no i shoot i shoot for four days a week okay wait i have a home setup that i that i enjoy so it's not too hard to to get out of the garage and bust out a workout all right maps perform easy maps performance that's your program maps performance you'll love it aim for 240 or so grams of protein a day only eat whole foods if you're hungry eat and you're good and literally that's what it's like oh my god i'm hungry i'm gonna go have whole foods and and what's gonna happen is your performance your athleticism will continue to improve with mass performance and your body fat percentage and muscle your body composition will change over time and it won't feel like you're chasing something that you can't get a hold of the one thing i want to lean into since you have the competitive athlete side of you that i like to to do with my ex-athletes is being competitive with yourself on your consistency around your eating habits so what it looks like is this if you're if your main goal is the the performance the health the strength like sal saying and that's the that's the lens that we look at this through you're and it's inevitable you're gonna you're gonna have a day that's not good you're gonna have a day that you're busy you don't get to and like so what so what the next day you're back on track again and what i want you to pay attention to is that competitive athlete is how many days in a row did i get of eating whole foods hitting my protein intake and being consistent oh it was seven and then i had them then i messed up cool you're back to zero next day your goal is eight can you get to eight and just compete with now along the way you're gonna have these days that's it just happens what happens to people though is they have they have that one bad day where they ate you know bad or they drank or they they missed jump off a cliff and then it's like it spirals out of control oh f it or they get on the scale and it shows a number they don't like and so they totally go off the rails and then one day turns into a week of bad eating and not consistency i don't want you to look at it like that it's not a bad thing fact when you're chasing performance and strength sometimes kind of a high calorie day eating out of bounds will fuel tomorrow's workout when you go to the gym and you're gonna feel awesome so don't look at it a negative thing look at it as like oh man i got seven days was is my new record i'm shooting for eight can i get eight days of perfect eating and hitting my protein and train like and so don't let the one day here and there that you have start keeping track of how many days can you string together and compete with yourself on getting better and before you know it you'll wake up and you'll have strong 30 40 days of perfection and you're gonna feel the best you've ever felt do you chase do you meal prep i do so each i mean each sunday i'll throw some things together and put them in some glass tub of wear things and have them throughout the week so good i try to do that yeah good meal prepping is going to be key uh for this and then here's the other thing i'll say just look out for because the weight is always going to be in the back of your mind you might start to find yourself veer towards under eating which you'll notice in your performance so you may be like okay i know i'm supposed to eat whole natural foods but if i skip no big deal i need to lose weight anyway and then you'll see declines in performance so i'm going to give you a little bit of structure okay i want you to have no less than four meals a day no matter what now if you're hungrier after that then eat more of those whole natural meals but i don't want a guy your size following mass performance if you eat less than four meal prep meals a day you're going to be under eating you'll notice a decline in your performance as well notice chase that nobody on this call yet has said anything about we care where your calories are at like it's like the whole it'll go where it needs to exactly if you if you if you focus like what we're talking about the land where they're supposed to be and the land where they're supposed to be and the land where they're supposed to land you'll have some higher days and lower days but what you should see is consistency consistently getting stronger and feeling better and performance going and then to sal's point the body will follow yeah body accomplish the aesthetics and the leanness and that'll follow but if you keep focused on the hitting your protein intake eating fueling the body so for performance and stringing as many of those days in a row for your performance the other stuff will follow that's right but four meals a day no less than because you need a lot of fuel dude you're a big dude um and yeah and like i said that in the back of your mind may be like oh you know i'll lose weight it's okay if i skip a meal here there and that's going to send you off in the wrong direction um the other thing too chase if you want if you want someone to guide you through this have you thought about working with a coach because we have coaches and there's there's a few i have in mind that i think will work right with you yeah yeah i've heard you guys talking about it on the podcast i would i mean i'd love to sit down and chat with one and see what that looks like okay um for sure yeah it's funny exactly what you guys are saying is exactly what i go through on a daily basis where it's you know i'll skip a meal or two and it's difficult uh it's it's it's it's hard to get past the obsession of if i don't eat then i'm gonna lose weight or whatever but no no mentality of fueling my fueling my body and just focusing on being an athlete no no less than four meals a day have fun with your workouts you've got it in you you really get strong and bro you'll start to enjoy it you really have a lot of fun and your body i promise your body will look uh more athletic uh if you if you're going to be able to do it you're going to be able to do it more athletic um i think working with a coach i think six months for you would be great six to nine months you would be fire bro you would be fire give you such a better mentality towards this whole thing for sure and they'd guide you through i'll have somebody call you uh today chase and then you can ask them all the questions or whatever but in the meantime i'm going to send you mass performance if you don't have it um yeah and uh you'll do great dude if you if you kind of remember what we're saying stay there and don't try and do anything crazy you'll get there yeah i'll stick to it all i'll change up the the program a little bit and focus on what you guys have said thanks for calling in brother yep thank you guys i appreciate it very much you got it yeah i think um uh especially with an ex-athlete uh and getting back into that kind of like oh man it feels good to move plus like the main that what happened with his kids you know you may confuse that with i need to lose weight and yes losing weight may be a part of it but really what you want what you're what you were looking for is ability oh yeah exactly fitness oh trust me there's 350 pound guys that can move faster than me oh yeah yeah yeah so it's like it's not a weight thing yeah you know yes and they're shredded dudes on instagram that would have had to pause each time because they weren't that's right that's right and then you let that be your guiding light through this whole process so you know the hardest part with athletes is they tend to be all or nothing that's right and that's why that's why i said coach at the end yeah and that's also why i made the point too of like if you're going to use that competitive side of you use it towards consistency around the diet during those days yeah and and the fact is we all have bad days and and and so but what happens many times is the all or nothing person lets that bad day turn into it now it's nothing you know and then so hopefully he can get with a coach and they'll walk him through all this our next caller is ashley from texas hi ashley um yeah i'm like so nervous i'm excited to talk to you guys um help you yeah all right so i wrote in um i did just want to say thank you guys you've really inspired my fitness journey and i'm so excited to be here with you and i've done a lot since listening to you guys when i discovered you guys like five years ago so i really appreciate all the information that you guys give um but i wanted to ask a question so i was feel like i was in pretty good shape a year ago i was working out five days a week um and felt really strong and good and then i got pregnant and i got hyperemesis gravidarum which um is just like the most extreme morning sickness like i was basically on bed rest and didn't do any movement other than like getting up from my bed to the couch for like nine months um and since then now i'm four months postpartum and i just don't know what programming i should do to get back into the gym without like hurting myself i feel like an alien in my own body where everything just doesn't feel right i'm so weak and everything um just simple movements just i really struggle with again and i just feel like i've lost all progress almost everything and i'm starting from zero uh that's so glad you called in that's a tough position to be in ashley i've trained uh women like you in similar situations uh and it's very difficult it's really tough by the way um my wife was pretty close to that for about four months while she was pregnant with my daughter so tough like what were you able to eat when because i know because i know with my wife if i just said a food she'd throw up like was there anything you could eat I mean, it was pretty many, I was going and getting like IVs and, um, it would just be random. I don't know, like carrots or something that I could really like. It was just super random, the things that I could, but yeah, I would like the microwave would go on and I would be like throwing up and it was horrible. Brutal, brutal. Well, um, you're, this is the way you feel is totally normal. Uh, I have the perfect program for you. Uh, it's going to be map starter. And just to encourage you, Ashley is, uh, you have muscle memory and that's a real thing. So the results, uh, will come back faster than you anticipate. The challenge will be not to push too fast, too hard. That's the challenge. Map starter. Perfect. That's where you need to go. Just follow that program right there. And it may feel, uh, easy after a few weeks, stay with it. Don't do any other program that we have. Don't add anything to it aside from maybe walking, just follow map starter. And at the end of that, you should feel like you can do more traditional, maybe a couple of day a week programs. Okay, great. Thanks. I started anabolic initially and it was that I was like, felt like I was hurting myself too much. So you might even run starter twice based off how you feel. So I would have you go through starter. And then if you were feeling great, I'd say, Hey, let's, let's see if we can handle maps anabolic. And then I'd want feedback from you on how you feel. And if you're like, I'm feeling great, we'll keep going. If you're like, man, this feels still scary. I don't, I still don't feel like this is all of my body. Like, and I'd be like back to starter, let's run starter again. And so really got to go off of how you feel probably going to be at least a year before you're even thinking about hitting the gym five days a week. That's a lot of volume, um, for anybody, much less, somebody who's postpartum and went through what you went through. So map starter at least once, uh, if you still feel uncertain, run it again, you'll be great. And then, and then, uh, slowly dip your toe into anabolic and see how, see how you feel. And the way you would do maps anabolic, if it, if you did follow it afterwards would be to start in pre-phase and do that for about five weeks before even going into phase one. Yeah, no, definitely. That's it's okay. And it's going to take a while to be back to where I was. And it's hard to go from feeling so strong and good to feeling like I can't do anything. Actually, you said a few things that and you've said a few things that have been echoed by so many people that I've worked with so many women and the common thing that they say, you actually said it is, I feel like my body's not mine. Super common. So yeah, don't, don't worry. And what Adam said is, is accurate takes between one to two years. And I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. It's going to take a few years before moms fully feel like, okay, I'm back. That doesn't mean you won't progress that entire time. You're going to progress that entire time, but it's going to take a little while. Cause you got to still have, you're going to have a one-year-old, you're going to have all that stuff going on. Uh, and you're going to about a one, one to two years later, you're like, okay, I'm back. I feel good. In which case then you tend to have another baby, but we'll see. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. So we'll send you starter. Yep. That's awesome. Thank you guys. I appreciate it. Thanks Ashley. Yeah. Be patient and be in touch if you need help. Yep. Okay. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. You guys, you're awesome. Have you ever worked with a woman who had hyperemesis? No, dude, not to that level. I've had, I've had, I've had clients that have had like, uh, like through the first trimester had some really bad, like morning sickness, but not nine months. And, I mean, she's just on IVs and they're trying to give her nutrients. It's like, you can't eat anything. It's so extreme. So, so Jessica was, there was like, there were like, there was like a week within that period. The whole period was rough where she was like, hypersensitive to anything. There was like a week there, dude, where I'm like, we're going to have to like, we have to get something inside you. Yeah. Like you can't just not eat. Cause she would literally just, I couldn't do anything. It was just on the couch. It was crazy. Hey, look, if you like mind pump, you can find us on Instagram. It's mind pump media. Thank you for listening to mind pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB super bundle includes maps, anabolic maps, performance, and maps, aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB super bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB super bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee, and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes. And by introducing mind pump, to your friends and family. We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is mind pump.