Your Boyfriend Gets 100 Chances, But Your Friend Gets One????

- Hey guys, it's Destor. - And it's Tolu. - And this is under the bed. - That was good. - That was good. - That was good. - That was good. - Welcome back guys. - Welcome. - We're here. - What's that all we got? - Episode five, we're halfway through. - We're halfway through. - Woo! - That's insane. - They're probably not going to be having about that. - Not at all. - But we've got five episodes left and then we are going on a break. - Yeah! (laughs) - I thought it's so funny that we break. 'Cause a lot of podcasts don't break. - I know, but I love having a break. - Really? - Yeah. - It's like school holidays. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I do feel like we've got wake-up so early. - Exactly. - It's like when not filming. It's like, yay. - I'm so excited, guys. You're not even going to believe who you've been there. - It's studio today, bro. You're not even going to believe it. - Yeah, this is a dream. - This is a dream. And you know, a lot of people have been like, get the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, obviously, I'm not revealing it yet. 'Cause I'm actually going to say today, you can enjoy it actually. - Can I just start by saying I'm actually fangirling it with you? - Yeah, I feel like when you've like watched people for a while, and then you're actually sat across them. It doesn't feel real. - It doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't. - But we're going to go into the intro. - Okay, go ahead. - Guys, today. - Mm-hmm. (screams) (laughs) - We have the gals from two by sisters. - Oh, hello. - Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, girl. - Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, girl. - Welcome. - Thank you for having us. - I'm like smiling so hard that my, my, my. - Is your bathroom in? (laughing) - Oh, no, no, it's the bathroom. - When they were both walked in, I was like, "Oh my God!" (laughing) But you know what, even though, I don't know, maybe it's like, I know people talk a lot about like, power social stuff. And I don't actually know what it means, but I'm gonna use it anyway. But I feel like, it's like, oh my God, I know that, but I don't know that, do you know me? - I kind of wait too much about you guys. - Yeah. - I like the nature of podcasting. - That's true. - Yeah. - But what about girls? - Yeah, what about girls? - What about girls? That's it. - What about girls? (laughing) - No, amazing to have you both here. I'm so glad we was able to make it work. 'Cause like I said, like so many people were like, "Guys, get to my sisters, get to my sister." And we're like, listen, we would love to have them, but it's schedules, like four adults in general, trying to link up is crazy. It's like a while is trying to schedule a podcast, do you know what I mean? So, glad we were able to make it work. Glad you guys are here. - So we're gonna start with a game. - Okay. - I don't know how this is gonna get might be competitive, because it is Courtney and Renee versus me in Destiny. - Oh, we're, you made the best team win. - No cheating as well. - How come you cheating? - That's very, see what you guys put on each other's right now. - Oh yeah, make sure no one sees it. So we have whiteboards. For anyone listening, like on Spotify or Apple Music, we're gonna say it, but we are right and on whiteboard. So go to YouTube. - Yeah. - You shouldn't wear that. - I want you then. - In fact, yeah. - We have a lot of viewers, yeah. But not all of you are subscribed, yeah. So if you wanna just pause the video and just subscribe, we'd really appreciate that. - All right. - Yeah, all right. - Amazing. Are you gonna say each question, yeah? - Yeah. - Okay, so the way this is gonna work is Tollou is gonna say a statement, like who's most likely to, and then each of us have to write, either our name or our pair's name in the board, and then we'll hold it up to our camera so that we can see it. But we'll probably put something on the screen to, like, say, the score and like, who ever more might afford stuff like that. - Okay. First question. Who is more passive-aggressive? - Oh, you. (both laughing) - You found your life, you gotta be honest. - Okay, everyone ready? - Yeah. - Three, two, one. - Okay. - Okay. (both laughing) - So Destiny put, okay. So I put, I put destiny. - Yeah. - Destiny put destiny. - Yeah. - Cool. - We put reddit. - We put reddit. - Okay, so one point each. - Okay, one point each. - Wait, let me do it. - Why did you put me? I just put me because I knew you'd put me, but I don't actually think I'm more passive-aggressive. - You're more passive-aggressive as heck. - Oh, oh, what am I? - Am I a little bit? - Maybe I am. - Perhaps. - Okay. - I put you because my aggressive is not passive. My aggressive-- - Okay, thanks. - Thank you, thank you. - It would be more like that. - Just direct. - It's very direct. - Okay. - I'm more likely to, actually. - Okay, I like that. - Okay, this is a bit of a hard one. I'm not too sure what I'm gonna put up. - Okay. - Who's most likely God forbid to get arrested for something stupid? - Ooh. - Ready for the reveal? - Three, two, one. - I thank God you put you-- (laughing) - Okay, okay. - Let me get it. - Why? (laughing) - I put me, Dessie put me, Courtney put Renee, and Renee put Renee. - Okay, where to? - We really do know each other. - You know what that is? - I have a podcast with someone. You spend so much time with them, you know them. - You know. - You know. - Okay, who knows their Bible more? That's a hard one, I think. 'Cause you know, how do we really know who knows the Bible more? - Okay. - Three, two, one. - Okay. - Hey. - What's you put? - I put me. - Let me see. - Definitely. (laughing) - Okay, I put me, Dessie put me, and they both put Courtney. - Okay, wow. This is-- - It's almost like-- - I think you know your Bible, though. - I do. - You do. - I don't know about you. - Yeah. (laughing) - Okay. - Oh, oh, this might be hard. Who's most likely to say sorry first after an argument? I don't have nobody what you're gonna put. Look, I don't know. - I don't know what I'm gonna put. - Who would actually be like him, sorry? - Oh, sorry. - Because this is where we might trip up. - This is actually tough. - Oh. - I think it's me, never really argued. - Yeah. - Oh, okay, well. Can we, I'm gonna put it on a sub-buck. - Okay, listen, this is what might distinguish who's gonna win. - Oh, fair. - Wait, did you put both? - Okay, you guys-- - We lose back after that. - You guys lose, yeah. I told you, you was going down. (laughing) - How come you put me? Because you thought I was gonna put me? - No, I'm not sure. - Oh, well, Dessie, you're in the spirit. - I'm gonna put both into the spirit. - I think there's more things for you to say sorry about. - Oh. - Oh, time. - Oh no. (laughing) - Well, should we unpack that as about to say? - Should we give it a round up? - Wait, what cost? - How? - Damn you. - What cost? - Damn you. - I was like, what cost do I need? - I'm worth it. - Okay. - Oh, cheeky bugger. - Oh, okay, this is more. - Okay. - So when the lead now? - Yeah, we are, just by one point. - It's okay if I let you mind. - Yeah, really. - And that walk cost. - Oh, when is the win? - At walk cost. - Who's most likely to say I'm not bothered, but they're actually very bothered. - Oh. - Okay. - Okay. - Oh. - I think we'll have to write it big. - Oh, she's already revealing. - Let's reveal. - 100%. - Me and Dessie both put Tolly. - Yeah. - And they both put Renee. - Okay, perfect. - It's hilarious. (laughing) - Is there something we need to unpack on this side? - No, we talk about this all the time. - All the time. - Yeah. - It's just a temperament difference. - Fair. - Okay. Who's most likely to send a voice note longer than five minutes? - Ooh. - Ready? - Okay. Okay, yeah. - Okay. - We both put Tolly, and they both put Tolly. - They both put Tolly. - Oh, we might win on this particular color here. - Yeah, I think for it still. - I'm here for it. - Okay. - Okay, we need you guys to get this wrong. (laughing) - Who's most likely to send five minutes away while still in the shower? (laughing) - reveal. Did you put you? - Yeah. - Okay. - Me and Dessie both put Dessie, and they both put Renee. - Damn, it's not something you'd do either. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't think it's something that I would do. - Yeah, exactly. - But I'm more like. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Exactly. - I think we're not a chance. - Dessie just goes silent. You don't know what's going on. - Oh, wow. - Yeah, but it's not getting ready. - It's not saying. - Okay, you'll be ready. - And once I'm about to leave, then I'll be like, "Leave it now, running late." - Okay. - But that's the part. One of my friends actually said I should stop doing this. - Yeah, 'cause when I'm getting ready, and I know I'm going somewhere, I literally leave my phone in front of my face. So like just in case anything pops up, but I'll be like calling her, messaging her, nothing. And then she'll be like, "Leaving now." And I'm like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." - Who's most likely to disappear when they get in a new relationship? - Ooh. (laughs) I'm only putting what I know Tollie will put. - Oh, please. Three, two, one. - Ooh. You both are courtly. We both put, that's three. - Yeah. (laughs) - First of all, why did you say whatever? - Oh, God. (laughs) - Well, you, I don't know how. - Jay, it's not because I said that. - That's why you said it might. - That's why. (laughs) - It's not because I think that you'd disappear, but I think you'd actually just take some time. - Yeah, I'm about multitasking. - Yeah. - That is really bad. - It's not because I think you'll actually disappear, but an idea. the most in general. Exactly okay fair. Why did you put me? Who's most likely to send a screenshot to the person they screen-shotted? Ah, like on accident. Yeah by accident. I think this is kind of easy. This is so easy for me. I've been doing this based on the situation just other traits. Are you hinting? I've read mine already so. Okay, let's do two, one. We both put it and they put Rennie. You know what? So you guys win on it. We win on a technical level and win in the win. That's interesting. That is really true. How long have you, how many years have you guys been friends for? 18 years. 18 years. Where did you meet? Primary school or something? Secondary school. Secondary school. Wow. We went to the same school. Yep. Okay, that's why you guys are like able to do it well then. Yeah. Like the questions and stuff. To be for how long will we know each other? Not that long. I really know like that. Yeah. Okay, our lives are intertwined. We met in 2021. Yeah. Yeah. How did you become so close so quick? How did we? I'm not too sure. I think the thing is so funny. I've said mentioned this before. We didn't actually, like, Destiny didn't actually like me first. I don't really know how we became like. I'm not too sure. I think you were looking for more Christian friends. I think I was looking for more Christian friends. I think we just honestly, I think it was divine because our first meeting, I was like, this girl is so stush, so rude, like no energy. Oh. But Baron and Mina was like depressed that day. Yeah, she was like, I was like, I was like, I was going to meet her on a good day in the morning. Yeah. But then even like, but then afterwards, I was like, oh wait, like, this girl's kind of cool. Like, okay, this girl's like Christian and on fire, but still relatable. Still very, like, I can chat to her like, like, naturally, like, it was just like, okay, this girl's a bit of me. And then from there, it just went from one thing to another. Obviously, it went to the same church. Obviously, integrated basically into your family, met you all, all your siblings, your mom and dad and stuff like that. And like, here we are today. That's happily married. Kidding. Kidding. Kidding for real. So obviously, every time a guest comes onto the podcast, we always ask them our staple under the bed question, which is what do you think is the most under the bed thing in the church? Well, well, very tea. I can start. I think for me, definitely, and this is not just because we love women and friendship and all the kind of things, but it would be authentic friendship within the church context. So not just cleaks, not just we're friends by association, but genuine deep relationships between believers. That is good. Okay, we can talk about that. What would you say yours is currently? I have two. Oh, hit us. Hit us up. My first word, we could unpack another day. I don't think Christians are taught enough to care for the poor. Oh, that's good. That's very good. Okay. But for the purposes of what you said, I think one of the most under the bed things in the church is not knowing how to do genuine friendship. Okay. Not knowing how to. Yeah. Yeah. What do you mean? I think a lot of people don't know how to do genuine deep committed friendship. I think we're taught a lot about marriage, which is great. Love it. But I don't think we are taught enough on friendship and real authentic community, especially the fact that friendships are not always convenient. And at some point they will get hard, but even within that, you still have to display the characteristics of Christ. I think we talk enough about Christ's likeness in friendship. That is very good. That is very good. I think that what you said even in terms of like there's a lot of talk on marriage and stuff like that. And that obviously is a covenant in itself. But I think your friends and the people, you know how they say birds of a feather flock together, like people that you're around, like it's so important. And it's like, oh, if you, if I want to, oh, there's a, there's another saying. But anyways, all in all, I just want to say that I agree with that. Yeah. Thanks, girl. What do you think? Lush. I think the same. No, no, I agree. But the thing is, I feel like just going back to what Renee said, I think within the church setting, how do I explain it? Like we have friends that like we see on Sunday, we see a church, and then it just like, it stops there. And I always say like, not even in a rude way, but obviously this is under the bed. Like you're not my friend if I just see you on a Sunday. Like you're not, you went, we're not friends. Like we don't speak about anything else. We don't, you go to our text, there's nothing there. We see the church have a five minute conversation. Like we're not friends. And if we're like sometimes in the church space, it never goes deeper than that. It always stays within the four walls. Like you don't do life together. I don't know your mom. I don't know your dad, not that, not, I'm not trying to be creepy, not that I have to know. But like it stays very surface level. Very, I don't want to say very Christian because we all are Christian. But I feel like when we only speak about church and God, don't know if I can say that, don't know if that's good thing to say, but when that's the only thing we speak about, we don't speak about anything else. I can't be vulnerable. I can't be real. I can't call you and be like, this is happening in my family or this is, I feel like this, like everything is just like scripture and church. I just feel like that's very surface level. I think for me as well, like I think to be honest, I think I'm such an extroverted person and I can make really good connections and stuff. But to actually call some on my friend, like it's got to be, yes, like you said, way deeper and it's got to be, there's layers to this. But also, I think that just because we go to the same church doesn't mean we have to be friends. And I also think that for me, like, I don't know, like I think I'm quite selective. But also, I was actually having a conversation with my friends the other day and I was saying that like, wow, have I become like, you know that, I think it's a Drake song, like no new friends, no, no, no, like have I become like that. But then, but then I'm like, okay, cool, like I don't want to be like that. Like, oh, like no one, I don't want any new friends because I think it's a beautiful thing to experience new friendships and you know, create new relationships and whatever. But I think, I think I, I like familiar. Help me guys. Yeah, wait, I messed up. Yeah, I helped me and you did. The blind, the blind. But then, but like, what's your, what's your guys thoughts on that? This is just a genuine question. Like, how do you guys feel? Do you guys feel like you've made new friends? Yeah. Like with the same level of depth. But obviously depth can take time sometimes. Yeah, not necessarily all the time, but I think a couple of things. So firstly, it's okay to use the full expressions of how we relate to people. People can be acquaintances. People can be neighbors. Yeah. People can be associates. Not everybody has to be a friend. And I think we've seen with the explosion of social media, thinking about things like Facebook, Instagram, followers, fans, friends have all amalgamated into almost the same thing. So we think that because I'm around this person or, you know, there's some kind of association, they have to be a friend, they do not. And that's okay. So I think firstly, we need to be okay with the fact that not everybody will be your friend. That's life. Secondly, I think to your point around being open to new friendships, I think sometimes it can be difficult, especially as we get older. And it's something that we've seen with our community to make new friends. We're a lot more guided and guided. We're a lot more boundaries up. The walls have come up because we've experienced so much trauma and hurt and pain. And sometimes the church can actually be a site of where we experienced that pain. So now we're entering into a place that should be full of love and full of openness with suspicion. And we're looking at people like, are you actually here to love me or are you here to hurt me? Are you going to exploit me? Because a lot of us again, we experience exploitation at the hands of people that are supposed to be our caregivers. And I think it's recognizing that the church has that space in our lives, right? It's meant to be a place of care. And a lot of us don't experience that. And then that colors how we now interact with particularly women when we're trying to build those kind of friendships. However, it is important as the body of believers. The phrase is literally body of believers. We're meant to be a body. A body functions together. So we're actually mandated to be open to new people. And so the church can be a great place for us to meet new friends. But we have to be willing to confront all of the difficulties that come with that from our personal experience, from the experiences that we're seeing within the church at large. And also the reality that again, we live in a fallen world. People are not perfect. So it's reckoning with all of these different things, right? And still be an open enough to allow people in. Now that's not saying that you should allow anybody to take you for you. Yeah, you are saying because I know you're going to look at I've been hurt and I'm sure everybody sitting on their seats right now has some experience of being pained by somebody, especially within the church. But that shouldn't be the reason. And we shouldn't allow that to deter us from still seeing the church as a place that has the potential to be a site of care given and a site where we can make very, very meaningful, deep, connections and relationships. Some of my best friends I have made in church. When you do church, like Christian friendships, right? Those can be one of the most powerful ways for you to become more like Christ, as you were mentioning earlier. It's one of the most powerful ways that you can transform and become a better human being. Like we're mandated to love God and love his people. And friendship is one of the most beautiful ways that we can achieve that. So yeah, what do you think was? - That was good. - I think you've, yeah, you've touched it all, my friend. (laughing) But I think three things came to mind as you were speaking. I think we forget that friendship is a tool of discipleship. That God uses our friends to disciple us so to help us become more like him, to walk this walk that we've committed ourselves to as Christians. I also think that one thing that's crept into the church a little bit is a sense of self-preservation. - Yeah, yeah. - And not just the church, but church people, I think the body, right? We become, I think by virtue of us experiencing very real things that happen in life and within the church, which should be a site of care, but it's not a place filled with perfect people, it's people who are being perfected. And sometimes in error, in humanity, we can hurt people. And that can probe a reaction of self-preservation. So like you were saying no new friends. Oftentimes people have that decision in their heart, even if they don't say it with their mouth, because they are trying to protect themselves from being hurt again. And that's a natural human instinct, but sometimes we can learn that from culture. And it's coming from a place of suspicion or it's coming from a place of offense, a place of real fear, as well, which again, human experiences, but they can make us self-preserve to the extent where we don't live a sacrificial life. We don't live a life in fellowship or community, right? And the whole essence of self-preservation can be seen as kind of anti-Christian because we are a sacrificial religion, right? Like the bedrock of our faith and our salvation is the fact that Christ laid down his life. And so if we are operating from a mode of self-preservation, we never do the laying down, right? And God tells us, well, Jesus told us, if you wanna be my disciple, you have to pick up your cross, which means you have to lay your life down to, but we can not lay down our lives because we're self-preserving. So we don't lay down our lives for our friends. We don't lay down our pride for our friends. We don't lay down some of the walls that we've erected that we are calling boundaries, right? And that can lead us to self-preservation and that stops us really manifesting Christ's full heart and full character to people. And within friendship, that proximity is what often allows people to see the heart of Christ, right? Like you were saying, I think when you guys met, you were going through a lot, right? Your friends were probably could have been the fullest expansion of God's love to you tangibly, right? And so if we are operating from a place of all, well, you know, Tolu's gonna be quiet. She's all, you know, down in the dump, she's gone dark again. And then we back out because we're trying to preserve ourselves from feeling rejected. You don't get that full expression of Christ's love that comes close to you, even when you're trying to withdraw. And then the third thing was I think sometimes what's crept into church culture is people wanting to be associates and have association with people and proximity with people and rub shoulders with people as a root of celebrity culture, more than cultivating actual friendship, right? People wanna know you 'cause you've got the platform, you guys do the podcast, you're famous, you're being flown out to this country and that country, oh, your video just went viral. So now there's like a hey bro, hey sis, but if I was a nobody, yeah, nobody's brother and sister. If I was nobody's bro, sis, right? Would you still wanna be my bro, sis? Yeah, yeah. If I wasn't woman of God, man of God, you actually still wanna be my friend. And the flip side of that is even for the person who there, women of God, my bro, my sister, those people are not your friends. Yeah, yeah, they are, they want association with you, but they don't necessarily want relationship with you. They don't want communion and fellowship with you. And that's why I think the church may be creeping into a territory where we don't know how to do genuine relationship and journeying with people. We wanna do optic. Yeah, oh, I don't know, while she was talking, I was just thinking, do you think sometimes in the church or as Christians or just within friendships in general, sometimes we're looking at friendships as what can I gain from this? So as soon as something becomes a little bit inconvenient, you're like, you know what, I'm signing out of this, like this isn't serving me anymore. And I feel like even just within my life, like I have kind of noticed that I don't know, being someone that is like happy to like do things for people, people begin to see that as a benefit. But then as soon as you're like, you know what, sorry, like I'm not gonna be able to do this, or you set up boundaries, or you're like, actually, I'm not gonna drop you everywhere anymore, I can't do that anymore. You start to see this bit of a shift, and then it's like, okay, so I'm able to inconvenience myself for people, but as soon as I'm not a benefit to you, it's then like, oh no, sorry, I can't do this anymore. Yeah. I don't know if you know what I mean. That's that, no, I do know what you mean. But I think it kind of relates back to what Courtney just said in a sense that like, it's not genuine. I think if something has like a, what's the word? If something has an ulterior motive, then it's can't be genuine. And I think if your ulterior motive is like, okay, cool, I'm gonna be friends with Tollie because she's got a car. If she has a car, it means that if we're going to church together, she can probably pick me up, and then she can drop me. That's not, it's not, oh, you know what, Tollie is such a cool girl. Like, we get on so well, like, I can tell her anything. Like, and you know, she really supports me, and she really holds me accountable. It's not that, it's like, and I think sometimes, people probably don't even realize it, but it's probably like subconsciously. They don't even realize that they're just using you. And you know what, it's like, I feel like, and again, this is like my issue. And obviously, we haven't come to talk about my issue, but listen, let me help you. - This is your way. - Help me, help me. And this is the thing that I think part of the reason why I struggled to like, I don't think it's, don't get it twisted. Like I said, extroverted can speak to anyone, but in terms of forming new friendships, like, I like the ones that I have already, 'cause they're tried and tested, do you know what it is with you, though? - Go on, sorry, this is not fair for you. - Oh, you're gonna, you're gonna hop me up, go on. I'm situation with you. - I'm situation with you. - Absolutely not. - But I do think, I think you might be similar to Courtney in terms of what Renee said regarding you. Like you just have space for like, I don't know if this is true, so I don't want to psychoanalyze you, but like, I feel like you have space for like one thing at a time. Like, like a few things at a time. I don't think you're good at like, targeting loads, like you would like drown if you had so many different friendships. And the thing is, I think you're the opposite to me. - Probably yeah. - Yeah. But the thing is, I think, do you know what it is? - There's balance in everything though. - Yeah, but I think it's not even a case of like, not balancing. I think it's a case of like, I think, let me explain, I swear I can't do nothing. - Oh, I think that is the case of like, what I value, I really value. And like, there's nothing left. But maybe that does that go back to the balancing thing? I don't know. - Explain. - Okay, so like, I like put my heart and soul into the friendships that I do have. And like I said, tried and tested. And it's like, why would I put my heart and soul into something else when it's not tried and tested? - Got you. - Do you know what I'm saying? So like, for instance, oh, I don't know to give a good example, but say for instance, one of my friends that I've known for a long time, like neither my help with something, oh, this is gonna sound brazy, but I'm gonna just talk anyway. (laughing) - For the man that we've cared for. - Oh my God, that's one soul. - Oh, let me watch what I see. - Yeah, after the bed and it like, I feel like, it's cool. Someone like Tollu or someone I've got another friend called Celia. I've got a few friends in it, like, but just being Celia. - No, I've got more than you and Celia. - But like, I've got my friend Debbie. You don't really know her, though. She's from uni. Anyway, it's cool. So if they asked me to do something, and it was really inconvenience in like, I would go out of my way to do that. You would do it 100%. - Yeah. But then like, I think that's based off of like, my love for them, which has been built over time. Where does someone else ask me to do, and maybe this is just a reflection of like, maybe I need to work on myself. (laughing) But if someone else asks me to do something, I'll maybe consider it more. Not to say that I wouldn't do it, but I'd consider it more because I'm like, well, like, or say, okay, no, let me do it like this. If two people needed my help on the same day, I'd help my friend. - Yeah. - That makes it sound better, isn't it? That does make a sound better. 'Cause that's quite standard. - I think that's wisdom. I think that's wisdom. And I think there's something at the bottom of this, which needs to kind of be addressed, which is just because we are all in the family of believers, doesn't mean we need to be friends. Friends is a different category to brother and sister in Christ, right? And friendship is a form of like proximity, closeness, intimacy. So like you're describing with Tollou and your other friends, that's been built over time, building trust and stuff like that. But we must remember that that also exists, especially in the Christian context, with then a wider body of a family of Christ, right? Which means that you, even like I just came and met, you guys produced it, right? That's my brother in Christ, because we're in Christ, right? Actually. my actual brother calls me and ask me to do something. I'm going to be like, "Hey Joel, sorry. Yeah. Sorry, girl. But I think that's understandable, but it means that in upon meeting this person in Christ, and to be fair, we should even have this kind of heart posture towards unbelievers as well, but that comes to generosity thing. My heart posture is, "I will help you within what I can." And within the limits that I have, the rest that have to chop it up to prayer for you, or maybe I can, you know, enlist someone to, I know who can maybe help you beyond the capacity that I have, but at least my heart is in a place that is willing to do that. And I think, oh, go on. Sorry, just a thing that you just said in terms of your heart being in a place to do that. I think that's another thing. Sorry, this episode is going to be all about me. Let's do it. Just one point I want to say is as well, as I feel like, I think maybe there's like a fear to like give my heart out and it will not be well looked after, which is why I take comfort in what I know is true and why I know to be tangible and know. So I think that's another element of it for me anyways. And also another thing I wanted to say as well is like, I don't know, like when something's tried and tested, there's so much peace in it, and I really love peace. So I guess maybe that's another element. I'm kind of psychoanalyzing myself in the midst of this conversation, which is why I just said that. But I think that's just also another reason. So I'm probably just I'm just saying it for anyone else that maybe feels like me. Yeah. I want it. Oh, wait, sorry. No, I just want to ask something. We're like, we all want to do everything something. I'm actually asking her to ask what based on that, which is, but what is someone like tolu hurt you? It's something that breached or broke. She has hurt me. No, I mean, like a betrayal or like a, you know, I think you'd cut me off. Why do you think that? Because I think that. I think you maybe not cut me off. Maybe not me actually, but I'm just trying to think like, feel like if someone in your life deeply betrayed you, I think you would take, you take offense in things. This sounds mad. It's not bad thing. But I think you know, I think if someone in your life deeply betrayed you, yeah, it's not bad thing. But I think you take like, because you hold your friendships so tight, if someone was to do something really bad, you would see that as like a grave offense, like a sacrible offense and be like, if you can do that to me and I've treasured you and kept you so close, you can, you can do anything. And I feel like you'd be like, sorry, I can't, I can't let that run. So do you think that I wouldn't forgive? I think you would forgive, but I don't think you'd forget. Period. Yeah. What is she repented? Say that again. Say what is she repented? Like, genuine, you can tell she's not, she's not that person. This action is not reflection of the person that she is. Are we talking about me here? You're thinking about it. I just want you to say you trust and there's that. Because when you guys are saying like, sacrible offense, I'm kind of putting it in relation to safe. You're married and your husband like cheats on you. That's what they said that. Yeah, adultery is a sacrible offense. So in my mind, like, if you do something on that level, obviously you can't because it's like a totally different relationship, then maybe, maybe you got to go. Yeah. But what if it's not on that level? If it's not on that level, then maybe you got to stay. I think what you said. I think what you said around, like, oh, there's peace here. There's peace here, maybe because that hasn't happened before. But if it were to happen, the peace isn't in Tollee's perfect track record with these. It's in the fact that God has called you to be in friendship with her. Yeah. Right. And so if God is in it, even though on paper, it feels like as from a very human under and when I say human, I don't mean like flesh, like an evil nature. I mean human is a very human perspective that's painful and that's right, her off territory. And that's let me close my heart to everyone territory. There is an understanding it might sound hyper spiritual, but I think every Christian has to get there that God has my heart in his hands. And the peace that I feel in every relationship or in every community comes from him and his track record, not necessarily people, because God calls us to walk with imperfect people, right? And I think sometimes we forget that. We make our ability to love people based on their perfection towards us, forgetting that they and us are imperfect people. So I, and I think that's why we can be so quick to let cut off culture, infiltrate the church when I think of Jesus' relationship with a Peter or the fact that and I think about this often and this isn't to glorify suffering or to encourage anyone to be unwise and I'd be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this. But Jesus knew that Judas would betray him and he still walked with him for years, washed his feet, washed his feet, ate with him, broke bread with him, allowed him access to everything that he had. But even with like Peter, like he literally said, like, you're going to betray me. And he was like, I would never, I would never. And he was like, no, but you are. And it's interesting that when Jesus resurrected, he still appeared to Peter. And he still told him, feed my lamp, feed my sheep like he still embraced him, which is so interesting because really and truly, if I've walked to you, you've walked with me for years, you've seen the miracles, you've seen what I've done, you know that I am God. You know that I'm the Son of God. And you denied me so quickly. Yeah, think about how Peter then became so integral to spreading the Christian message afterwards. So whilst we may think it is a sacable offense, we also need to think about, was there a sacable offense back in the day like for Jesus? And I think just going off of what you were saying as well, there is an idolatry that lies within friendship as well. In that we idolize our friends as this perfect image as Courtney was mentioning, we idolize their perfect traits or we idolize their capacity to show up in this particular way. And then it becomes very, very difficult to acknowledge the human parts of them that may disappoint us. Yeah. And I think it also makes it very difficult for us to be open to new experiences or new friends because in our minds, we're comparing this new person to this track record that we have with our friends. So as beautiful as it is to, you know, have these great friendships and to have these relationships, we also need to take care that we're not idolizing our friends too much to the point where they're not allowed to expose their humanity, but also we're not open to receive new people because they've become the unconscious standard for all of our new relationships. That's right. That is a good walk with people after their humanity has been revealed. Oh, yeah, that's well. But the thing is, let me hold this. No, no, you go. I'm not holding it. I think I was having a conversation with one of my friends the other day and I was saying, I feel like it's very interesting how we all love Jesus and we all preach Jesus and we preach forgiveness and we preach all of this stuff. But when it's time to act like Jesus after an offense, we don't do it. So as soon as someone's done something wrong to you, you're like, okay, I'm going to ignore them. I'm going to give them the silent treatment. I'm going to do these things. I'm going to give them the cold shoulder. I'm going to let you know that I'm upset. I'm no longer going to give you any access to me because you've breached what was our safety net. And I think like I literally said to my friend, like, why do we preach Jesus? But then when it's time to do the uncomfortable things, we don't do it. Yeah. And I think to add to that, the standards that we have for our friends because that's very easy for a lot of people to do a romantic relationships. But when it comes to our friends, the bar is impossibly. Why do you can we speak about that? Why do we think that is? I think personally culture is crept into the church. And it's something that Courtney often says. And I always mull on this, but it is important for us to renew our minds radically pertaining to everything. We think that the truths that we hold in our mind are biblical. But when you actually ask God, please reveal to me how much of this is actually rooted in your word and in what you said, you start to realize that even within Christian rhetoric, even within the church, even there is some creepings of the culture. So when we think about this whole message of endurance and marriage and covenants and whatnot, yes, there is an element of that that is biblical, but we cannot sometimes divorce some of these truths from what we're seeing in popular culture right now. This whole idea of the woman being the primary holder of the relationship, the one that has to endure, the one that has to be the head of the household, that's a cultural thing. That's something that's normative in patriarchy and culture. But then when it comes to our friendships, this weird competition, this impossibly high standard, is reflective of the culture that we live in as it pertains to women. That's the standard that women have been held to for hundreds of thousands of years. So we're seeing this weird dynamic because a lot of these elements are actually present in our culture and they've just crept into our church. Yeah, because I know I just think there is a crazy thing within just the world, Christianity, everything of people being a lot more forgiving towards romantic relationships than towards friendships. Even when I think about the narrative that's always online about your friend not showing up for your birthday. And if my friend didn't show up for my birthday, I'm going to cut them off. And then I think about people I know who's like, your boyfriend wasn't there for your birthday. He didn't do what he should do as a boyfriend, but you were able to excuse that. But when it's your friend, that's like a straight cut off, which I find I feel like we see friends as replaceable, but with romantic partners, it's not replaceable. So it's so easy to with your friends just dispose them for any. little thing but you will stay with the Romantic partner doing the same thing over and over again because you're like I have to hold on to this. Is that okay? I think it's sorry I think I was going to say I think it's a bit it is rooted in a bit of that scarcity like taking me a while to get a match. Yeah. He's not perfect by he's here. Yeah. I got him. What are my friends? We see girls every week. I understand that. And I think it reflects the like you said how highly we regard like both said how highly we regard friendship. I do want to go to that thing you said around like you know we can preach Christ but when it actually comes to being like him it can be so difficult and that's the essence of Christianity. Yeah. Like it's so hard to be like Jesus that's why we need his help, the spirit's help to do it right. But I think we as within our friendships I think our friendships can expose to us and hold up a mirror to us where there is pride because there's a point where it transitions from the human response of you've hurt me and I've hurt completely understandable pain. It's pain. Do you go what I mean? You've hurt me and I'm hurt. Now I'm going to look at my boundaries. I'm going to obviously adjust the way maybe I act cool but there does come to a point where you hold so much onto what someone has done to you that you're holding it against them and it's becoming a matter of pride for you because like how could you have done this to me? Well why not you? I get that no one wants to be hurt but you're not above you're not above the human experience right or you know all you did this thing to me and like you didn't apologize or you didn't apologize the way that I wanted you to okay think about how many times you offend God in life. Do you know what though I think what you just said is important in terms of like a lot of the times friendships can find friends can find it hard to reconcile because of pride. But I also think it can be pain and just not being able to fathom and like comprehend. Could be done. Yeah do you know what I mean? So I think it can be both ways and not to say that like any of those are good or whatever but it just means that a different level of comprehension needs to be like taken to overcome it. Yeah if that makes sense and I agree with you that's like I think pain is the part of the human experience that we can't avoid and it's going to hurt and friendship pain hurts more than any kind of pain. Literally it's it feels like you've been done so. It's so painful. It's so painful. I don't know about you guys but sometimes when someone does something and I wouldn't do that thing I find it really hard to understand why they've done that thing. Do you know what I mean? And that could be a friend that could be a boyfriend that could be even my sister sometimes will do stuff and I'm like why did you do this? I wouldn't do this to you so why have you done this to me? I agree with that but I agree with that but when you when you like even fall into that I wouldn't do this to you right there's that standard that raises you it's kind of it can become a self-righteousness which is I wouldn't do it but there are other things you could do. Yes and other things that you are to me. Self-righteous can't agree. What was you doing? And there's other things that you may actually be doing. So I think is this is why when it comes to friendship we really need to see it as a covenant. It's a covenantal relationship. It's not just a social contract it's not just a associate's encode. It is a covenant. It is one of the highest forms of covenants biblically and we need to treat it as such and I think sometimes the pain does come from you know I've seen this relationship as a covenant but also it starts to make you question do you see this friendship the same way that I do? Which is also something to recognise and empathise with. I did hold this friendship to this particular standard and I did I love you so this is why this hurts me and I think I'll come back to your earlier point around genuine authentic deep friendships. We actually just need to hold our friendships in high regard. We need to care for our friends. We need to care that this is a relationship in my life that requires deep nurture, that requires a value system. Like I don't know how many people we often in our friendship we have a principles and values. This is how we're going to interact with each other. More of us need to do that and it doesn't have to be anything that's particularly difficult or hard or long or whatever. We look to the Bible what were the principles of being like Christ. Apply them to our friendships. But I think because we're so quick to, again as you were saying, we claim that we believe in Jesus and His principles and whatnot. We're so quick to do away with those principles when difficulty arises. It really shows us, even as it says in the Bible, like a brother who is formed in the time of adversity, not in the time of peace adversity. So it's usually when we're under the fire or we're actually experiencing difficulty that we see how hard and how much can I hold onto this as something that actually stands. Yeah, but I think what you said about friendship being a covenant, I don't know if in the body we truly recognize it as that. I don't because a covenant is obviously something that's very deep. We see marriages covenant, like when they have all the like witchcraft stuff and they have like demonic covenants and stuff. We see that as like, whoa, like a covenant seems very deep and I don't think we see friendships as that kind of high standard because like even when we look in the Bible and it says like the souls of David and Jonathan were knitted together. Like I've read that so many times and there's so many times I have to go back to God. Like what do you mean by their souls were knitted together? That means that it's something deeper than any kind of like human basic unspirational matter. Like this is something that goes so far beyond anything that we can even imagine that it means that there was something that God wanted to do with the two of them that he combined their souls and like even just like to go personal like I feel like even sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, I feel like even within like my relationship with Destiny I feel like there's obviously like we're so close so there's gonna be times that like she might irritate me or she might do something that I don't like or whatever but one thing I have done and I can literally hold my hands up and God is my witness that I constantly pray for us and like I pray for the relationship and it's so easy to like be annoyed at like certain things but like I will always go back to God and like one thing God always reminds me is that there's a reason why I've joined you guys together and when you're annoyed at someone and God says there's a reason I've joined you together all of a sudden like it's like you don't feel the irritation anymore because you always go back to the fact that this is God ordained. If something is God ordained it's not easily disposable, it's something it's not something you can just get rid of. It's a covenant, it's something that is sacrificial, it's something that's going to be uncomfortable but in walking with Jesus I feel like God gives us the grace to allow room for annoyances, allow room for offenses, allow room for even times that you might do something that's wrong and just praying that the other person sees it the same and they're able to forgive you and you guys can as you said in times of adversity become stronger. So it's interesting I just don't think we really view it as a covenant. I think if most people, even I don't think I don't even think I will go as far as say like I don't even know if we truly pray for our friends. I know we pray for marriage, I know we pray for our boyfriends and our husbands and we pray deeply about that but I like I assess myself one day like do I pray for my friendships? Do I pray for my friend? Like when I'm annoyed, do I call someone to start slating my friend or do I go to God and be like God I'm like there's times literally just to be an honest I've gone to God and I'm like I'm really annoyed of destiny like can you help me because like if you don't help me like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be able to like be normal and this you've told me not that I've made it up not that I've just gone to like make a friend off the street you have told me that there's a reason for this relationship. So if you've told me that then I need you to help me and I don't think we do enough of actually going to God in I need help with this. I don't want to dispose of this so you need to help me. Yeah I completely agree with you. You love me. Of course I love you. So put on it. No I completely agree with you and I think I mean there will be people who will even hear this and be like it's not that deep like friendship is not that deep of a thing but I think when we look at scripture and we look at like you know Psalms tells us don't sit in the council of the wicked right because there are consequences of that and council other people you're keeping around you and don't be unequally yoked with an unbeliever that's not just a marriage uh scripture that's who are you carrying life from purpose and things with right to where you closely attached to you I and sharpens I and like all of these things use the Naomi it's like your people will be my people your God will be my God which lets us know that your proximity to someone can actually bring you into further worship or it can pull you further away right and so I often like when we were before we started rolling I think you said something to us and we made the same reaction right the more I've spent time with her and the more she spent time with me the more we become like each other now imagine Renee was not a godly person yeah it's easy for me to think as a Christian I will influence her but it's easier to be dragged down than it is to pull somebody yeah mom says that all the time yeah so actually I'm gonna become more like her yeah like fundamentally yeah and so if she is not holding herself and therefore myself to a standard of Christ likeness it's gonna be hard for me to be formed into the image of Christ and that's the entire purpose of my discipleship walk of my walk with Jesus and so the people you Keep around you will affect to it is that you're becoming. - Quick question. - Go ahead. - When would you say- - Go ahead, you put your hand up. - Do you know why she does that? It's because I feel like you feel like you interrupt, so you're like, so she's like, let me do it to her. - Yeah. - But let me hold my thoughts. - That's what it is, go ahead, girl. - When do you guys feel like your relationship, like friendship was the most turbulent and how did you, whether that storm? - I think I know the answer. - I mean, yeah, I've got to say that on it. - If you guys were like both getting married and stuff like that. - Yeah. - We were in an exaggeration when we called it the evening. Found us? - Gotcha. - Gotcha, gotcha. - Gotcha, wasn't the lead off to our wedding, yeah. - Talk us through that for anyone that hasn't seen that episode. We'll link it down below, by the way, but yeah. - Have you shown you she? - Yeah, that was a two-part, two-part, two-part, two-part. - I mean, South Africa to be fair. So we had a conversation with Impumila Dwaaba who is the host of the wisdom and wellness podcast based in South Africa. And we did a live show in Cape Town in 2025. - Five? - Five, that's a lot of you. - Yeah, that's so cool. And yeah, we had this live conversation with her and we were talking about how the lead up to our wedding was very tough for us because up until that point, our lives had been on very similar trajectories and at very similar paces as well. And even if you go and listen to the first episode of the Two My Sisters podcast, we, the first episode is called "Frenemies." And we talk about how similarly in about 20, 18? - Ooh! (laughing) - In 20, 18! - In 2018 was one of the first times we experienced a diversion in our lives' parts, right? Because like we said, we met secondary school. Secondary school and the nature of school was that we're all in the same place at the same time at the same pace, right? We became real best friends in like, secondary in six warm sorry, again, same life, same pace. Apply for uni, go into the same types of uni, we're doing similar courses and similar spaces, both ACS President, like we're just, - Wow! - We're in our lives, right? And then we graduate from our undergrads, Renee goes to Harvard to do her masters and I start my first business. And that was the first time our hearts are like, whoa. So now we find ourselves and we go into this in that conversation, talking about how she's at uni, thinking court needs doing the best thing. And I'm at work, thinking Renee's doing the best thing. And that comparison crept into our relationships for the first time. But obviously she came back in 2019, we had a whole conversation about it. Let me talk about it in 2020 on the podcast. That was the only time we experienced like a massive split. Obviously we then both accepted our parts or calling whatever was she's done. (laughing) But we started the podcast and now we're doing something together. - Okay. - And yes, we have our own lives but now we're doing something together. It's an element where you're back to being like the same. - It's like a parallel line. And then we live together. - Wow. - We move in with each other. We live with each, we live with each other for about four years. We're doing this parallel line thing again. And then Renee, Renee going to a relationship with us but I was about to say time like, oh, there would be spiritual beers. (laughing) Renee said, "I'm gonna watch this." - Don't leave it there. - I'm gonna protect my friends. - So anyway, she gets into a relationship. I'm single, still. Haven't been in a relationship for years, yes. So then there's that little thing of like, oh God, like when? And there was this little clip that we did once in 2020 of my little sister and she was asking us random questions. And then it was like, who was most likely too? And she was like, who's most likely to get married first? And I was like, Renee, 'cause at the time she had started dating her, her now husband. And I was like, damn, like this. Wow, our lives are about to. So now when the conversation started coming up and she was like, oh, you know, they are gonna get married. And this is a couple years later. And I'm like, okay, now I need to go and look for my own least and figure out life. And oh my gosh, this is really, really tough. And then bam, I get into a relationship and then I get engaged first. - Oh. - Blip the script. - Blops. - It's like, you know, the story of the tension on there. (laughing) - Bam, I'm gonna fail. - Oh my gosh. - Bam. - And I think it differs from that a little bit because it wasn't, again, nothing in our control. Right? - Yeah. - And so it was like, okay, I get engaged. And now the role is kind of flip. And it's like, oh, this is not expected. And now it's like, she's now looking for leases by herself, if that makes sense. - Oh my gosh. - Like after I move out, she's gonna move into somewhere else before she now gets married. And I think that this is me explaining it 18 months after it's happened. - Yeah. - So we've processed so much, but you can imagine being in that moment nearly two years ago, where we're both processing emotions and don't know quite how to express it to your friend because you don't wanna come across like a witch. - Yes. - Yes. - Right. - And that's a huge thing. - Okay. - You don't wanna come across that. - Yeah. - And you don't wanna come across like a witch. You don't wanna come across like a witch. Like, hey, like, I don't wanna see you. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - So now you're processing all of this internally, but it's really tough because you live with the person that's constant reminders. And because our lives are stuck in such close proximity, people are like to me, "Oh my gosh, congratulations." Then they'll turn to her, not knowing she's in a relationship and be like, "You'll be you soon." - Oh my God. - Yeah. - Oh, yes. - Yes. - Sorry. (laughing) - And what you're planning is fuel to the fight. - Yeah. - And there's already like a comparison and that can become, and we both experience a gateway for the enemy. And in that moment, and I think we don't talk enough about how friendships experience warfare. - This is so good. - Right, yeah. - Friendships experience warfare. And in that moment, there was just the festering and a growing, right? And so long story short, I find out. And then it became a bigger issue of why didn't you tell me? And now we have to assess. - Wait, you find out what? - How she felt. - How she felt. - Oh, okay. - Right. And it became a bigger issue of like, okay, well, why didn't you tell me? There were some other things in it as well, I think, but we don't need to go into all of that, obviously. So yeah, we now have this thing. And it was one of the biggest tensions in our relationship, 'cause for the first time, we're contending with there's a comparison that's kind of evolved into an envy and a jealousy. And it's become a roadblock for the both of us because it's hindering our intimacy. We can't be as honest and as vulnerable with one another as we used to be. And that violates the trust we once had. - Ooh. - Right. - This is so deep. - And at this same time, I'm her maid of one, and she's my maid of one. - Oh! - Thank you so much. (laughing) - Guys, this must have been so dull. - Thank you so much. - And you've been friends with this person for over a decade. You have a podcast on friendship. You have a book on friendship. - On friendship. - You live with one another. And you have to support one another even though you know, at some point in the last 12 months, you both offended one another in one way or another. - Wow. - And people obviously see you. Their comments are adding more fuel to the fire. And we found out things about each other, things that both of us did or said that we were neither of us was proud of. And it just made it like, okay, I really could, and you know, in that time, and I don't know if you felt like that, but you can be a bridesiller and you can do the whole like, I don't want to be friends with her anymore. If you can't show up for me perfectly, then don't show up for me at all. But in that moment, I think it reminded us of each other's humanity. It reminded us of the purpose of friendship. And that a lot of times, and I think it goes back to what we were saying earlier, people hold each other to the standards of you didn't show up for my birthday. - Yeah. - But that's not really what Christ liked friendship meant to be and godly friendships come in to be, right? I think sometimes that's why we feel like our friendships are failing or it's hard to maintain friendships with so many different people because culture tells us friendship should look like this. And it's very hard with the limited time we have and the demands of living in a society like this, to be able to show up for various different people in that kind of way all the time. I cannot go to brunch with you all the time. I cannot respond to your messages all the time. But what I can do is pray for you. - I mean, you've got a special grace for that though. - Well done. - I do try. There's an image of what friendships should be culturally and it doesn't always line up with what's realistic. And we can hold up that standard like you were saying around like kind of idolizing our friends like Renee would never do that. Like I can't believe she did that. It's like Renee's a human being. Or you would never do that. I can't believe she did that. Or he's a human being, right? And so now you've seen each other's humanity. Let's test all the things you've spoken about in your hundreds of episodes. Do you actually believe in covenant friendships? Do you actually believe even if this friendship isn't a covenant, that Renee or Courtney still needs to be loved and deserves to be loved and cared about? Can you see things from their perspective? Can you give them the patience, the kindness, the gentleness, the all the fruits of the spirit that are still demanded from you? Just because someone offended you, it doesn't give you a free ticket to become satanic. You can't now jump into the flesh because well, you wronged me. It doesn't give you license to sin. It doesn't give you license to come out of Christ like character, even though it's understandable that that would be the most tempting part. - Okay. - I think it's a difficult conversation to swallow because it does tickle with, I think a lot of what's crept into people's lives in general because it's a huge part of the culture, as you were saying, which is this desire [BLANK_AUDIO] protect yourself yeah right and defend yourself and and I completely understand it because it's we're humans we do we do self-defense or we have our natural instincts and stuff like that. It makes us very hesitant to engage in real authentic deep relationships because they inherently require vulnerability and vulnerability is something a lot of people struggle with because fundamentally it leaves you open to heart yeah right like if I am if I expose myself to you I'm being extremely vulnerable but it also gives you the opportunity to stab me gives you the opportunity to punch me and all I'm standing on is good faith in the fact that you love me enough not to do that yeah that puts you in such a sensitive space with people but that's the essence of trust yeah and it's interesting that you brought up Drake because Drake's or the Drake lyric not Drake the person about the Drake in this race yeah which is you know yes there's no new friends but then there's also trust issues and that's why there's no that's so good that's good I think what has really helped myself on Courtney's relationship is we have continued to try to be those people that can hold shortcomings it's not just about you showing up it's not just about you come into the branches and all the things that we do but can you hold me when I'm falling short of quest likeness can you be there even when I am like think about your friends that are doing all sorts of things they're you know backslide in or whatever are you the person that they run to a when they're falling short of God standard but be when they're actually offended you this person has deeply offended can you still hold somebody that has deeply offended you that's so good and as mentioned we're not here to glorify suffering or endurance and all that kind of stuff and I think there is a novel conversation to be heard about how do you be a good friend because we often talk about the friends and how people relate to us and how friends are to us but we don't get time to talk about are we actually good friends individually like if we were to reflect upon how we engage with our friends or the people that we love are we good friends would we pass the litmus test have we proved ourselves to be friendly then from that place we can start to talk of a lot more humility around our friends shortcomings but ultimately I think yes you should be in a place in your relationship with your friends where you can say I'm falling short here yeah or I feel this kind of way or you may view me differently but I'm going to take this risk because I believe in our friendship and I believe our friendship can withstand even my own insecurities or your insecurities or whatever it is that we're dealing with that's when we say that friendship is deep it's that deep yeah you should be able you should have enough depth in your relationships that you can hold it when somebody offends you and again disclaimers not when somebody abuses because you know people would take us opportunity I say yeah you have to enjoy our friendships but there needs to be depth that people are wicked on here so y'all clip that the reason for depth is also to carry you need to have enough capacity to be able to carry the shortcomings that are in your relationships because we live in a fallen world people are gonna fall are you ready to catch them yeah and I think it points to two things as well within the Christian walk which we have to make sure we can carry which is one the ability to confess we don't talk about confession enough within the Christian faith like so we were raised Catholic right and confession is a huge part of the Catholic faith and I think sometimes you know being within Protestantism or in the Protestant faith we don't talk enough about confession and we also don't create a culture that can handle confession yes very well it's interesting when the Bible says that confess your brother so that they make healing yes exactly wow exactly it's a huge part of the Christian faith and even like in that's in the New Testament and most of the New Testament is teaching us how to exist within Christian community right now on the other side of your salvation there's a walk yes there's a personal walk and there's a way that you must work out your salvation but also there's a way you must now exist with you but that's the whole essence of Corinthians and the Ephesians do you go I mean there's a way we have to walk with each other and that's where that scripture confess your sins to one another the same way testimony sharpens our faith confession helps us to overcome the shame that the enemy can often try to catch us in and imprison us in right and so having it but then it probes another thing which is our ability to have compassion yes a lot of us are not compassionate at all so you can't hold that confession yeah this has been this has been fantastic like I need to I need to go back and we we might need a part of it honestly guys this conversation has been very very very deep I want to even go back and make some notes and yeah it's but I don't want to say one thing fully close out there is a way to hold your love your Christlike love for people and still have boundaries yeah I think sometimes he said let that be known yeah no because I think there is a I can't love you fully and in a big and generous way if you haven't got access to me in that way no I can I don't need this to be reciprocal do you get what I mean like I understand your short forelings and your shortcomings I understand that maybe you cannot be trusted with certain levels of information because you have a gossiping problem I understand that maybe you have a you steal you lie like I understand you know I do is crazy and understand that I understand your human condition right now you got a problem you've got a problem thank you so much and I can still love you very generously whilst knowing that I am not I I am giving I am pouring out and I don't want to receive from you I also don't want you to have access to me in that way but I will sacrificially love you and give to you without having to give you myself yeah do you go I mean without having to give you my heart I can actually still show up I can do the okay let me drop you to the station yeah yeah you know it's your birthday happy birthday is free yeah do you get what I mean like I can just because I like the Bible says as much as it depends on you keep peace with all people yeah right you can keep peace with people you can extend the love of Christ with two people while still being like you don't have access to me in the fullest way and I think it goes to show that we trust God like our faith in God to hold our hearts to keep us whole to protect us to defend us and even what you are saying about like envy sometimes it exposes where we don't have faith right I'm jealous of you it's brought an anxiety into me because I don't actually trust that God is going to do this thing for me so it's exposing more of our dependency on God as a friend we think our friends are failing us could you put our full expectation of friendship on them but our full expectation of friendship should be on Christ yeah yeah he is a faithful friend and if he is our friend your friend should be or could hurt you and you still be able to be like you hurt me but I can still get what it feels what the enemy is telling me you robbed from me I can get it from you that's so good you know that's yeah so good oh I feel overwhelmed yeah you know when like people were talking you're actually thinking like you're really deep in it this has been very good and I know and believe that this is going to bless so many people absolutely so many people we hope so anyway if you don't like it then so normally when we get to this part of the episode we always ask our guests what emoji they should drop if they reach the spa so you guys can let us know what the emoji is for this week the love letter was literally thinking the exact one that is cute the love letter oh amazing okay cool so if you've reached this bar in this week's episode then drop the red letter with the red heart Courtney and Renee thank you so much for coming on board we will have all the links Instagram links and everything everything is going to be a switch of box but yeah thank you so much you TV gang we will catch you in the next episode thank you so much thank you guys bye bye