Speaker 1Recovery Elevator, episode five. Welcome to the Recovery Elevator podcast. My name is Paul. According to my Recovery Elevator sobriety tracker available on Android and iPhone, I have been sober for 194 days. You know the rule where if you write a strongly worded email or a letter that it might be prudent to wait 24 hours before hitting that send key. Well, that's what I did. I recorded this podcast episode yesterday, and instead of going to the editing board like I do directly after I record a podcast, I decided to wait 24 hours and see if I still felt the same way. Well, Recovery Elevator, I do, and here it is. I don't want this to sound like a diatribe or anything like that, but it just might be that. You guys are in for a special treat with the interviewee on the show today. His name is Elliot. And yesterday, after interviewing him, I was inspired. I was so happy to have him on the show. This guy is amazing. But then I played a huge game of the what-ifs, right? Looking through life in a rearview mirror is a bad way to live, and you can't play the what-if game. You know, what if I'd have done this? What if I'd done that? But I played it yesterday for a couple hours, and it was not healthy. What I mean by this is, my best friend, he says it in his own words in the interview, is a recovering alcoholic and has been struggling with alcohol for the last decade, probably just as long as I have. And we should have been working together. And here was the what-if game. I was like, wow, what if Elliot and I had been putting our efforts together, and I could have avoided so much wreckage and bullshit? But you can't play that game. That has already happened. I can only focus on today. I felt so alone for so long. And that's another reason why I'm making this podcast, is to tell you, you are not alone. I felt like Tom Hanks in the movie Castaway for a decade. But the only difference is Tom Hanks, he had a volleyball named Wilson. I didn't even have that. Now, I've made it very clear, this podcast has zero affiliation with Alcoholics Anonymous. In fact, it's been a godsend for me. It's a fantastic program. And I want to make it clear that I'm not promoting AA, or I'm above AA. But sometimes, it's just a little too anonymous. But here are a couple opinions. And that's all they are. They are just opinions. And I want to make it clear, I do not claim to be some sort of authority in this field or a medical professional. I have two very expensive pieces of paper hanging on my wall. But I'm not a professional. These are just opinions. Alcoholics Anonymous. Fantastic program. But there's one word in that title that hinders the program, right? It's the word anonymous. Sure, I understand the reasons why it's anonymous, and I respect it. There are professional reasons. If a future employer were to know you're an alcoholic, it might impede your chances of getting that job. And another reason they keep it anonymous is, what if it doesn't work? What if somebody joins AA and they go out and drink? There's going to be a lot of public criticism saying, oh, AA doesn't work. Look at that guy. He got drunk again. But you could say the same thing for religion or church. Somebody could be going to church their entire life and then cheat on their wife. And then they're going to go to church. And then they're going to go to church. Or commit a crime. And you don't hear people saying, oh, he went to church his whole life. That old church thing doesn't work. No, you don't hear that. And there are several other valid reasons of why it's anonymous. I've done a lot of research on this. But the word anonymous is what forced me to look at the pavement while walking into those rooms, to strategically pick a parking spot so after the meeting, I could get out as quickly as possible. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't want anybody to know that I was going to get out of the room. I didn't AA meeting. My head was down. I was trying to scan the room, but not make eye contact with anybody. And I saw this kid. He looked about my age, dressed about the same. And I wanted to find somebody that I could relate with. So I sat down next to this guy with hopes of striking up a conversation with him after the meeting. And there's a basket that goes around that you put a dollar in. And this guy, instead of a dollar, he put his court booklet in. That guy was not there because he wanted to get sober. He was there because the courts made him be there. And sure, there have been laws passed where you can't just go to Alcoholics Anonymous to fill up your court card and fulfill the requirements of your DUI sentence. I get it. You can go to several other places to do that. In fact, there was legislation passed, yada, yada, yada. I'm not looking into that, but there are a lot of people in there that don't want to be there, including myself, but they don't want to be there at all because the law told them they have to be there. So I'm not going to be there. I'm not going to be there. I'm not going to be there. And even if they sit there just silent, they don't say a word. And believe me, they don't because they don't want to be there. There's an energy around them. Seriously, there's an energy around them that they emit that says, you guys are all losers for being in here. I don't need to be in here. I am only here because the judge made me come here. Like I said, never listen to the Recovery Elevator podcast out of shame, out of fear, out of a punishment to yourself. Another thing I want to make clear, this podcast is not an anti-alcohol podcast. If you can control your alcohol and drink like a normal person, then congratulations. I wish I could too. But let me tell you something about the 80-20 rule. And in this case, after some brief math calculations, probably the 90-10 rule. That is 80% of businesses make the majority of their money off 20% of their clients or off 20% of the work they do. Do you think companies like Budweiser and Anheuser-Busch and Coors Light make money off normal drinkers? Hell no. They make money on me. Let me correct that. They made money on me. I'm taking this one day at a time, but Anheuser-Busch, you will not be making another cent from me. And I can just imagine a board meeting at Anheuser-Busch. Tom, what's the outlook like? Well, we're still selling a lot of beer and yeah, things are looking good. Tom, are there any programs out there that are saying maybe don't drink beer? No, Mike. There's still a program called Alcoholics Anonymous, but it's still just that. It's anonymous. I can be shooting from the hip here, but I'm almost certain these companies are ecstatic that this program is anonymous and they want to keep it that way. Elliot's right. He says it in his interview. There is laughter. There is hope. There is joy, but you got to find it. You don't just walk in there, sit down and start having fun, happy, joy. You got to find it. You got to find it. You got to free conversations. I guess I'm a little frustrated today. It's just everywhere. And just try to get away from it for one day. Watch a movie. Watch your favorite sitcom. Let's talk about social media. Right when I was in the thick of it, I tried to disconnect from everything to give myself the best chance of staying sober. Let's talk about this thing called Facebook, which I love, but try scrolling down your newsfeed. Do it for a minute. I guarantee you will see an alcohol reference. It could be a good friend of yours. Oh, it's five 30 margarita time or an ad from Budweiser, all this stuff. It's right in your face. Even if you're locked inside your house away, when there's no room for your diction to be there, it's still right in front of you. Let me talk to you about this new mobile app called Snapchat, right? So I've had it for about six months. It's where people send you photos that you can only look at for about six months. It's where people send you photos that you can only look at for five seconds, 10 seconds. They choose the duration. It's a pretty cool app. Actually, it's kind of fun. Why you can't just send a photo. I don't know. And the notification of my phone would go off and I would say, Oh, cool. Snapchat. I look at it and you have to hold your thumb on it and boom, it shows up. There is a closeup image of a Miller high life and another guy chugging beer in the background. And that person didn't mean to just send it to me. This has happened several occasions. And after a couple of times, I just sent them a text like, Hey, FYI, just no more Snapchats of people drinking booze while I'm trying to quit. And one of them was like, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. And another person who doesn't get it, which I understand they were like, Oh, I just sent it to a bunch of people at once. Sorry, which is fine. I totally get it, but you can't get away from it. I don't live downtown. I live about three miles away from downtown where the majority of the drinking takes place. There's no coincidence where I live. I don't want to live next to all that. And one day this summer, as I'm about an eighth of a mile away from my house, we're talking a five minute walk from my house. I make a turn and I see dump trucks. I see construction vehicles. And I say, Oh, cool. I wonder what's coming in. Maybe it's a Quiznos. We need a Mac store. No, it's a micro brewery. If I had a good throwing arm, I could probably throw a snowball and hit the brewery. When I was in the thick of it this summer in 2014, instead of going right while walking my beloved dog, Ben, I took a left. I didn't want to see that. I couldn't see that. And now the brewery is open and that parking lot. is busting at the seams and I have to drive past that every fucking day. Now I usually go directly to my editing software and edit the entire podcast all in one go. I'm going to wait 24 hours before I edit this and I want to keep this podcast clean but if the f-bomb is still in there then I felt the same way 24 hours later. I probably had to drive past it five more times after I dropped the f-bomb so if it's still in there that's still how I feel. Look, sobriety is incredible. It's amazing. My life is a hundred times better than it was just six months ago. It's incredible but I'm human. Today is not a good day. I'm pissed. I'll probably be playing the what-if game. Alcoholism is a disease of the mind. I hate to say it. I have a mental disorder in my mind called alcoholism. It's not fun to say but it is what it is and it doesn't define me. It's what I do from here on out. Like I said earlier, you guys are in for a treat. This guy Elliot absolutely rocks the mic. And Recovery Elevator, at this time I would like to welcome Elliot to the podcast. Elliot, how are you? I'm great. I'm great. Thanks, Mark. Let's edit that one out. No, you know what? Actually, that's a great segue. We are not going to edit that out because that was an accident but this is why I'm not going to edit it out and this is reason number 765 of why I'm doing this podcast. Recovery Elevator. Some of the interviewees on this show I've never met and we've just, you know, met via Skype and done this interview but Elliot is different. Now, I have known Elliot for 10 plus years. Elliot was my brother's roommate in college. Elliot and my brother are really good friends and when my brother sent out this podcast in an email to a bunch of his friends, Elliot was included on that email and Elliot reached out to me. Thank goodness. We had an amazing conversation about 45 minutes and I said, Elliot, what you just said was incredible but the issue is I'm the only one who heard it. And thank you so much, Elliot, for agreeing to do this podcast but this is how it should have happened. Five or six years ago when I finally fessed up to my brother and said, hey, Mark, I've got an alcohol problem. Mark should have been like, oh my God, my really good friend Elliot has an alcohol problem. Let's get you two together. Elliot, talk about that on your end. Why has it taken us this long for you and I to connect?
Speaker 2Oh, man. Well, you know, Facebook is an amazing thing and that's how we were able to reconnect that and this technology and the recovery elevator and, you know, I think that being an alcoholic, you know, for Alcoholics Anonymous, I know this podcast has no affiliation with Alcoholics Anonymous but there is that air of anonymity. There are people who have this disease are afraid to talk about it and because of that, people aren't talking about it. Things are swept under the rug and people can be standing in the same room and have no idea that other people are struggling and feel like they're the only one and because of that, I think a lot of people don't want to admit that they have a problem because they feel there's shame because nobody's talking about it and they go on struggling for years and years and years. And Paul, when I heard that you were having these same struggles, there was an immediate bonding connection because there's nothing that brings people together like when you hear that somebody is struggling with something and the other person says, me too. That is an immediate connection and I consider your brother one of my best friends in the world and I still have not, quote unquote, come out in the open publicly with my struggles because it's so much easier just to talk to the people. My immediate inner circle and we live halfway across the country now. So anyway, I'm really excited to be on the podcast and excited to be talking to you today. Yeah, and we'll get into
Speaker 1the basic questions in just a second. But five or six or seven years ago, Elliot, I remember sitting in Las Vegas with my brother and my dad eating dinner and you had a business in Las Vegas and we'll get into that later. But in that chair, I was thinking, I know I had a beer in front of me and I'm thinking, I'm only going to have this one beer. I'm done after this beer. And of course, I went on to actually spend over $1,200 blacked out at a nightclub that night. But how do we have known? You were right across the table, probably dealing with the exact same issues. But we'll get into that in a sec. Elliot, let's just get into the nuts and bolts of this. How long have you been
Speaker 2sober? That's a great question because I quit drinking formally about seven years ago, right around that same time when you were in Las Vegas. And I think probably the best way to talk about that is to tell the story. But I did not reach out for help from other people. And I did not take the time to learn about alcoholism. And I looked at it as a moral failing. I looked at it as something to be shameful of. I looked at it as a lack of willpower. And I think that so many other people do. I thought that the true alcoholic was somebody who had to have alcohol like somebody drinking coffee in the morning has to have coffee. And I didn't realize that. I didn't realize that. I didn't realize that the disease is actually much more simple than that. And it took me years to figure that out. Years of struggling by myself. And I had my last drink 16 months ago. And I got to tell you, the last 16 months have been so easy to struggle of the five years before that. I guess, yeah, I can certainly talk more about that. But that's the quick answer. Yeah. Congratulations on 16
Speaker 1months. Nothing short of remarkable. And Elliot, talk to me a little bit about when you were drinking. Before we chatted, how you were on these business trips. And talk to me about finishing off bottles of wines that cost hundreds of dollars. And you would justify, say, well, it was probably $15 a wine in that bottle. It's just a sip. But talk to me about your drinking habits and how you tried
Speaker 2to control it. Absolutely. Just to talk about that, I would want to probably talk about the years before that and leading up to when I started to realize that I had a problem. I grew up on the small island in Washington State, the oldest of four children in a comfortable middle-class family. And we lived on a small farm, seven acres. And we had horses and pigs and sheep and even llamas and alpacas and chickens. And it was just a magical childhood. And I grew up in a community of people who are so supportive. And I flourished in that environment. And by the time I was in middle school and high school, I was playing sports. I was the captain of the football team, of course, quarterback of the football team, the editor of the school newspaper and esteemed body president and very active in our church youth group. But the summer before my junior year in high school, I went camping with a couple of buddies and they pulled out a six-pack of Corona to split between the three of us. And I had two Coronas. And I still remember the feeling of that alcohol in my system. And that should have been my first clue. I immediately started obsessing about when we could party again and drink again. And it was like game on after two beers. And the next two years in school, I kind of led a double life. And I didn't even realize it at the time. I had a public persona, if you will. But then I was looking for those parties where people wouldn't be found out, where I could drink in anonymity, if you will. And I just looked forward to going to college where drinking was considered maybe normal and maybe even celebrated. So I went to college and that's just it. Got right into partying, joined a fraternity, met your brother and had a wonderful time in college. I gave up sports because it was too hard to manage drinking, doing well in school and sports. And I substituted a wonderful social life. And it was a great time. But drinking became more and more of a problem. And by my senior year, I made a public announcement that because I needed to do well in a new job I had and do well in school, I was not drinking my senior year. And I think I got a 4.0 and had a great job. And I celebrated after finals by drinking. It was game on again. And again, looking back, I kicked myself because I knew what alcoholism really was and how simple it is to find out if you struggle with this and if it's a genetic thing, a chemical reaction that's happening in your body, I would have known. But I went on to be very, very good at it. And I think that's what I did. I was a very functioning member of society after graduation. I got married. And like you said, I moved to Las Vegas, where my wife and I started a coffee and tea distribution business, selling coffee and tea to fine dining restaurant. About a year and a half or so after we started that business, it was doing quite well. And a family member got into the wine business. And I thought, perfect. I have all these great restaurants and hotels I'm selling to. Got a license to import and wholesale alcohol in Las Vegas, which, by the way, is a whole other story. It's a different market. But did well distributing that wine. And after a year or two, we had built a portfolio of 25 wineries, two or three distilleries, a number of craft brews. And life was good and business was good. And I was proud thinking I kind of beat the system and I was managing. And I had an excuse to be out drinking all day because I was selling this product. And obviously, it wasn't a problem because look at how successful I was. But it was a problem. Looking back, some things I realize now that I didn't realize then is that I'm not a drinker. I'm a drinker. I'm a drinker. I'm a drinker. And it's one I was associating with people who were living wilder lifestyles than I was. And So comparatively, which was my barometer, I was not as bad as them, so I had nothing to worry about. But again, coming back to it, if I had looked at what alcoholism really is, that wouldn't have been my yardstick to measure again. The other thing that I didn't realize at the time then that I do now is I could have been doing so much better if I wasn't moving so slow in the morning and didn't have a foggy head in the afternoon because I was thinking all day. I was limiting myself because of alcohol, and I didn't even realize it. And the third thing, I thought I was managing everything. I thought I'm on the top of the world, and people were giving me a lot of positive feedback. But I still wasn't working out, and over those five years, I probably gained 40 pounds. My relationship with my new young bride was suffering. I thought it was because of the work, but really it's because I wasn't emotionally there in the afternoons and in the evenings. And... So one morning after a long night, she seemed distant, and I did everything I could to make her happy, and I had no idea why she was mad. And she mentioned, Elliot, I've been worried about your drinking, and I'm not happy. This is going to affect our relationship. And it was a very tough conversation for her to have, so I thought I'd fix it, and I promised to try harder, and I did. I, you know, limited my drinking. It was very tough. It was very tough to not finish amazing bottles of wine that I'd been out drinking all day with people. So I stumbled and drank too much, and promised, and tried harder, and it was that cycle for a couple months. And one morning, almost out of desperation, because I was so perplexed on why I couldn't stop myself from drinking once I'd started, I admitted that I was an alcoholic, even though at some point I still didn't know what it was. And so I went without drinking for months. It wasn't hard for me to stop. I didn't have detox. I didn't have detox from the pain that I'd caused in our relationship. And as scared as I was by watching my drinking patterns, it was enough pain for me to stop at that point. But what I didn't realize was that once I start drinking, I can't stop drinking. It's so hard. And so I knew deep down that having an alcohol business in Las Vegas was not as smart. Not a smart thing for somebody who struggles with alcohol. That is the way I said it. I struggle with alcohol and not smart to have an alcohol business. So I made the toughest decision in my life and sold the business. I feel like God, or the universe, or whatever you call it, I call it God, was showing me that it was the right decision. Because we got our asking price, the deal went very smooth, and we sold it to people that knew us and knew the business and could continue fulfilling promises we've made to people about quality and the business structure. And so things were working out, and we moved to Texas, where I got into sales. And I thought, getting out of the industry and stopping drinking would be enough. But like I said, I was in sales. I traveled a lot, and there were lonely, cold nights in hotel rooms where I thought, you know, just one drink at the bar downstairs. That's happy hours free. I'm not really an alcoholic. I haven't been drinking for months. And sure enough, once I had that drink, I would need to keep drinking until I fell asleep or passed out. And I would wake up, and I'd have this shame and just be so concerned. And so I tried harder. You know, I don't want, you know, there was so much in my mind, so much negative association with the term alcoholic. I didn't even want to admit it to myself. And so I'd go months without drinking. And then, oh, you know, it's been a long day, and I'd make some excuse and have a drink, and then I was off to the races again. And, you know, maybe I'd go nine months, do it again, and then drink for a couple trips. And I would work so hard during the day to make up for that lost productivity. And when I'd come home from trips, I just felt that same duality of life I was living in high school, where I was putting on a show for people that knew me, but inside I was struggling. And so I got some podcasts that I downloaded. And that's why, that's one of the reasons I am so excited to be on the podcast today, because people... And podcasts help me. And the thing I heard is that alcoholism is a two-part disease. It's been medically proven that people that have trouble with alcohol have a different chemical makeup on their body, and that when they drink alcohol, it affects them completely differently than people who don't have an alcohol problem. And so, like I said, it's a two-part disease. One is your mind, and it's the obsession with alcohol, and the obsession about taking that first drink. It's that struggle. It's that struggle when you're sitting in a hotel room, and you're not going to drink that night, or you promise in the morning you're not going to drink. And then you think about it, and you think about it, and you get all worked up, and you're almost shaking and sweating because of that obsession about having a drink. It's almost impossible to control. But then the second part is how that alcohol, once it enters your bloodstream, affects you differently than other people. Normal drinkers can have two, three drinks, six drinks, and stop. Where people that are alcoholics, they want to keep going, and it's like torture. It's stopped. They think it's crazy when they watch a movie, and somebody has two drinks, and then they put the drink down and walk away. And that was me. And I heard that, and I thought, wow. That explains everything, all the way from that first drink after my sophomore year in high school. That explains the wild nights in college. That explains why I make a promise not to drink one day, and I'd end up drinking. And also, the second thing is there's no shame in that. Whether you're at the bottom of the elevator. Whether you're at the bottom of the elevator. And you get off after DUIs, and liver failure, and divorce, and total financial destruction. Or you get off at the top of the elevator. That definition is the same for everybody. And you can choose when to get off that elevator. So, I realized that, and it was like a huge sigh of relief. But I knew that there were things, that just knowing that, knowledge doesn't cure you. It's action and honesty that cure you. If you can even call it cured. And so. I went back to an AA meeting, but I went with that knowledge, and that made all the difference. That was 16 months ago. And I'll tell you, by walking into that room, I saw people that were happy. They had hope. They were, you know, clear-eyed. They understood exactly where I was coming from. There was no judgment. And I told my story, and I was honest. And I started to feel that hope. And I'll tell you, Paul. I was in a session to drink, which was kind of the key to it all, was removed. It was like, it was lifted off my chest. And I very rarely feel an urge to drink. And if I do now, it's like a fleeting thought when I see a billboard, or I see, you know, other people drinking. And I think, oh, gosh, I remember, you know, boy, that would be, wait. And it's almost like, you know, if I had my hand on a hot dish after I took it out of the oven, I could pull that hand back from that hot dish. Yeah. Yeah. I have that same reaction now. And if I don't, I know that I need to take more action. And it might be as simple as calling up another friend like you, who I know understands, and just asking you how I'm doing that, how you're doing that day, and just connecting. And it's like, those simple actions are where the magic happens. And I'll tell you, I'm so excited about this life. But, you know, before, I thought, you know, even when I walked into AA 16 months ago, I felt like it was, I was giving up. I was giving myself a life sentence, because I knew people had to go to meetings for their whole life. And I hated meetings before, probably because I wasn't completely honest. But now I realize it's not a life sentence. It's a new way of life that is not just about living without drinking, but it's about following a path that is super fulfilling and leads to, you know, a super, you know, feeling of abundance in your life. And it's so joyful. And I realize I don't have to all do it by myself. It's a huge relief, you know, a huge weight off my shoulders. And the last 16 months have been the best month of my life. I've been acting, or I should say I've been making decisions, not out of fear, but I've been making decisions based out of love and service for others. And I feel like things are good. But I know that recovery is not always easy, and I don't want to paint that picture, because it's hard to... be honest. In fact, you know, me calling you Mark at the beginning of the podcast just goes to show I was nervous about getting on this podcast and talking to you. But getting out of my comfort zone is part of my recovery, and that's one of the reasons I'm doing this.
Speaker 1Absolutely. And Elliot, I always encourage, I say this every episode to listeners, is listen to the similarities and not the differences. It's really easy to hear what Elliot just said and say, well, I don't live in Texas. I had never been to Las Vegas. I don't have a wife. I never, you know, owned a coffee. I don't have a tea liquor business. But Elliot, you just described my drinking story and career to a tee. When I had that first drink when I was age 13, I got drunk, and I knew it. The instant I put the first drops of alcohol in my mouth, I had this sensation. And after that, I was chasing that sensation. My jokes were funny. I had confidence. I could talk to girls. I knew I had found the answer, right? And you said functioning alcoholic. That might be the understatement of the year. That might be the understatement of the year, Elliot, because I remember this dinner like it was yesterday. It was a summer in Vegas. where I was in between the bar and I was sitting there listening to you. You were sitting next to your wife and you were talking about this amazing tea and coffee business and how you're about to branch off into distributing wine. And I told myself, damn it, Paul, why can't we be more like this guy? Why can't I? I'm not even joking, Elliot. I'm not joking. And I still have so much respect for you. But at that moment, I had no idea. We should have been working together day one. You said a couple things in there. And this is episode two. Get outside your comfort zone. Elliot, talk about the changes that you really had to make. And listeners, talk about someone who really got outside their comfort zone because sobriety is not located inside that circle where you're located. Elliot sold his business that was very profitable and lucrative and moved to a different state. Tell me more about that.
Speaker 2You know, and that's what I mentioned. It was the hardest decision I ever made. It was the hardest decision because anybody looking from the outside, it would look like an irrational decision if I didn't admit that, as I put it at that time, that I struggled with alcohol. And I found other reasons, you know, for the general public. And one very honest reason is we had a daughter about a year before. She was maybe a year old. And we were like, do we want to be distributing? Alcohol in Las Vegas and have her grow up thinking that this town and this lifestyle is normal. And me coming from a small island in Washington state with about 6,000 residents, it was about as far from what I considered normal as possible. And so that was my official reason. And it's a very valid reason. But right alongside that was this idea that I can't be around alcohol. And so I called that family member and I still remember shaking, you know, my hand shaking. And I was telling him the numbers to tell that family member. And I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be able to distribute your wine anymore. And that was the first time I told anybody else besides my wife that I had this challenge. And I had to tell a number of other people. And people obviously noticed that I stopped drinking at that point. And it was so hard and so uncomfortable because I felt this shame. And that's why I hid it for so long. And freedom from that obsession to drink, for me, did not come until 16 months ago. Because I tried to do it on my own with my own willpower. I could fix anything else in my life, but I couldn't fix this problem. And I didn't want to admit defeat. But the irony is, as soon as I surrendered to it and realized that there's no shame in having a medical condition, there might be shame in going down the elevator farther and farther and seeing more destruction and damage in your life. But there's not shame in being an alcoholic. Half of it can be genetic. I think probably even more than half of it can be genetic. And there is actually a lot of honor, and I respect people, that make positive decisions in your life. And if you're up near the top of the elevator, you don't need to write it down. What you need to do is ask yourself a couple honest questions. You know, Paul, I know you did that podcast where, you know, there was the 20 questions. And I think those are very telling. But if you can see, if you have that obsession about taking medicine, that first drink, and experiment with not taking it and see how it affects you. And two, once you have that drink, can you put it down after two drinks, three drinks, six drinks? Or do you need to drink more and more? If you do, you might as well take a good hard look at getting off the elevator. Because you're going down, and life can be so much better without going down farther.
Speaker 1Exactly. And let's switch gears for a second here. And Recovery Elevator, again, I want to encourage, please listen to this podcast. Out of hope, hope for a better life. I want for myself what I want for you guys. And Elliot, when we were talking the other day, we were discussing how this really is an issue of life and death. And it might not seem that perilous on the surface, but tell me more about that, Elliot. It is life or death. And what I mean by that, it's not like, well, let's shoot for the stars. And if you don't make it to the stars, you might land on the moon, which is pretty sweet. But with drinking, if you're trying to stay sober, and you don't do enough work, and you drink, it's black and white. And tell me more about that, Elliot. One thing is, it was easy for me to justify drinking.
Speaker 2And, you know, by being around people that were worse than I was, for me, I didn't feel like it was life or death. While I was drinking, I look back now, and I think, man, I had some close calls. Well, you know, maybe I shouldn't have driven that time. Or maybe, you know, it's amazing I got back to, you know, in college, back some nights from the party. It's very easy to justify that you're not as bad as other people. Or to come. I think people that drink too much, or alcoholics, are very good at compartmentalizing. And denial is an extremely strong human emotion. And it's something that I struggled with for years about being honest. But it just takes one time, one time driving, you know, one time making a bad decision. Looked at the news this morning, and I kind of watched the show, and can't even name the guy. But some, you know, very handsome young actor that was on something like, Real World or something, you know, Big Brother. Probably only 19, 21 years old, died of alcohol mixed with the wrong drugs and overdosed. He had, you know, I could only imagine he had so much promise in his life. And it's stories like that. But it's also, for me, is the lack of life. I was becoming, because I was so ashamed that I couldn't beat this on my own, I was trying to fake it till I make it. And I wasn't allowing myself to feel emotions. And I wasn't being honest with myself and other people. And my life got very, almost autopilot, where I was trying to survive, and I wasn't thriving. And I see that with so many people around me and so many, you know, families where, you know, the parents may drink too much, and the kids aren't having the childhood they could have. And they suffer. And they grow up, and the pattern repeats itself. And it becomes a generational thing. When I quit drinking, I started to thrive. And I put that stake down where, you know, there's, looking back to my family history, there's other people in my family who've struggled with alcohol. Notice I didn't call them alcoholics, because I believe that only you can define yourself as an alcoholic. But I've seen that pattern through, you know, different families and even my own family. And I put a stake in the ground. And I am saying no more. My kids are going to have a different childhood than other kids have. And they're going to know about challenges people face, and how there's no shame in being honest, and the freedom that comes from that. And it's not only life or death. It's also about really living when you're alive.
Speaker 1Elliot, you've said all the words, honesty, you know, everything that tells me you are going to be very successful in recovery. But what is your plan? You've got 16 months. How do you plan to make 17 months, two years? What's your plan moving forward? I know we both know it's far from easy. I'm in the bank. But what's your plan moving forward?
Speaker 2Well, my plan today would be on this podcast, and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to drink today. And, you know, there's a couple of things I try to do every day. One, I try to talk to an alcoholic, whether it's a text message or a phone call or going to a meeting. And by the way, the more the more I'm out in the open and the more I meet, I realize other people are alcoholics and we have that bond. So that makes it pretty easy. I also try to. I try to read or listen to some material, whether it's the big book, alcohol, autonomous or podcast or something to remind me of of this disease. And just by taking a small action, I found a daily reprieve from drinking and I'm one to plan out five, 10 years. In fact, you know, part of it, we were working on our 10 year planning for our business in Las Vegas, and we realized we don't want to be there in 10 years. Just so happened we were doing that. But I don't have a. Five year, 10 year plan. I just had a daily plan and I'm just trying to do it over and over and it's not that much work. I'm actually kind of starting to enjoy it.
Speaker 1Elliot, I'm going to Las Vegas on March 24th and this is my plan. Airplane convention, hotel room, convention, airplane. Get the hell out of Las Vegas. That's my plan. Elliot, we have reached the lightning round. So with quick 20 to 30 second answers, you know, real quick, go through these answers with us. What was holding you back from quitting drinking?
Speaker 2My pride without. A doubt, uh, my pride and the knowledge of what alcoholism really was, I, uh, like I mentioned, I thought it was all these things. It's not. And, uh, once I realized it's much simpler than that and I was able to get out of my comfort zone and deal with my pride, it was game on.
Speaker 1And Elliot, it might've been 16 months ago. It might've been before that, but when did the light bulb go off that you were ready or needed to be done with drinking?
Speaker 2Oh, it was when I saw how it affected my wife and I knew that. The relationship I had with her at that time in my life. Um, and then I was, I was causing pain and that, that was enough pain to make me want to stop.
Speaker 1And Elliot, what is your favorite resource in recovery?
Speaker 2It's kind of a mixed bag. I don't know if I have a favorite, uh, resource. Um, it's shifted over time. Some resource that I really liked are some speaker tapes by, uh, uh, Joe and Charlie. They go through the big book and talk about, uh, alcoholism in a way that, uh, I really connect with Sandy beach is another. Speaker who really enjoyed listening to obviously, uh, going to meetings and reading the big book, you know, and this might not be a resource. for everybody. But somebody who I've never met, I've never even spoke with, has a podcast. His name is Rich Roll. And he happens to be in recovery, but he's also an ultra endurance athlete and also is a plant-based vegan, if you will, advocate. And I've really enjoyed listening to his podcast, probably at episode 135. But he's not afraid to talk about his alcoholism. And by having that as a resource, he's been an example for me by how freely people can talk about this disease and open. And it's super inspiring for me. So there's a short list, but I'd be happy to share others with other people too. So anyway. Elliot, I'm going to write those down in the show
Speaker 1notes for this episode. So you can go to recoveryelevator.com and type in Elliot in the search bar and the show notes will pop up and you can see all those resources. We're going to write them down. Now, Elliot, what's the... What's the best advice you've ever received?
Speaker 2You know, when I got back in the program 16 months ago, a guy that I really respect after one meeting said, Hey, Elliot, write that day of that last drink in the front of this book here. Anybody can write it anywhere. He said, this date is the best, easiest chance you will ever have again for quitting drinking. And I didn't quite know what he meant at that time, but I realized that... Every time I tried to stop drinking, a little bit of myself was taken away, a little bit of my willpower and pride. And I was starting to almost give up. And what I realized is every time I might slip in the future, it's only going to get harder and harder and harder to come back in. And that without doubt made a huge impact. So I'd probably say that's the best advice I've ever received.
Speaker 1What parting piece of guidance can you give to listeners who are thinking about quitting drinking or in early recovery?
Speaker 2Don't stop and don't give up. Tomorrow will likely be easier than today. And it's taken a long time to get to where you are. And so don't have the impression that it will be quick to get back to where you were. The obsession to drink that you feel before that first drink can go away in an instant. But your life is not going to get easier because you're going to have to deal with things without alcohol, without that friend. It's by your side. It's by your side. It's by your side. It's by your side. And even though you get off the elevator, the disease still progresses. So I want to be very clear to say the disease will always be where it is today, but your life will get better. But you can't take the elevator back up. You got to take the stairs. And it's one
Speaker 1stair at a time. Got to take the stairs. I'm writing that down and I will use that in future podcasts. Elliot, thank you so much for joining us today. And I know that I will not be drinking today because what you have shared with me has been quintessential in my own recovery.
Speaker 2Thank you so much, Elliot. Hey, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on the podcast, Paul.
Speaker 1Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. If you compare yourself to those who drink more than you and do other drugs in a way to minimize your problem and keep drinking. See, I'm fine. Shots anybody? It's called rationalization right there and justifying it. You say to yourself, I wasn't going to drink tonight, but then you also realize I have nothing to do tomorrow. And then you start drinking and no shame. And you piss the whole next day away and you do nothing next day. Now, all of these were emails that I received at info at recoveryelevator.com. Send me some funny things that you did when you were drunk, or they could be serious things to let you know that you might be an alcoholic, but my favorite, you might be an alcoholic. If you've ever wondered, you have a drinking problem. Again, you are not alone. Elliot is a standup guy. In fact, I challenge you to find an all around better guy. After the interview, we continue to chat for a while. And he said, Paul, if anybody emails reaching out for help, send them my email. So I'm going to do just that. If you like what Elliot had to say, and you really relate to him, let me know and I'll get you two in touch. And if you feel alone, which you're not, but it's hard not to feel alone while going through this, email us, info at recoveryelevator.com. Be sure to like the Recovery Elevator Facebook page. And just like Elliot said, you took the elevator down. You've got to take the steps back up. You can do this. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
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