You’re Wrong About Jools LeBron (and Influencers)

"Today we're at the dentist. I'm paying for my own teeth cleaning. It's very demeer, very mindful. I'm not like the other girls. I don't expect my entire audience a blue-colored nine to five workers to pay for my $45,000 smile. I'm very cutesy, I'm very respectful. I'm gonna get violent." "I wish you had given us a trigger warning for that." "Yeah, I'm sorry." "It's okay." I mean, one thing a racist is not gonna do is tell me what to think about a damn thing, and you knock on clock me, but it comes to morality or showing empathy. "Given your propensity for the hard-ar, Jeffrey Star, I know all of that rejected Tim Burton character's lore." Hello, hello. I'm Mapper and Seen and welcome back to a bit fruity. Earlier this month, a rich and famous billionaire tiktokker made headlines when she took thousands of dollars from every single one of her followers, promised them a life-changing meet-and-greet in return whenever they needed it most, and when they did come to her saying that they needed the meet-and-greet that they had paid for, she said, "No, go fuck yourself. I don't care if you live or die." "Wait, is that not what Jules LeBron did?" "Oh, I'm sorry. Fuck. I'm confusing things again." That is what American health insurance CEOs do every day. Let me start over. Earlier this month, a tiktokker named Jules LeBron, who most people might know as the creator of the very demure, very mindful trend, posted online that she is having a medically necessary dental procedure that she can't afford on her own, so she shared a go fund me link. "My teeth are falling out of my head and I need your help." People did not like that. "Jules LeBron, I have nothing against them, but asking your followers for new teeth and to fund your go fund me because you went viral two years ago and it didn't work out for you is crazy." "Asking your 2.4 million followers to help you get new teeth as wild to me." "I think I'm really starting to hate influences because what do you mean? You have over 2 million followers and you're begging for donations to get your teeth fixed. Get to work. Get to work. All that screws to me is laziness." "You want us to pay $40,000 for you to keep your fucking reality alive?" "Why doesn't she sell the dolls? Can anyone tell me that?" "I know the doll collection is worth so money. Where the fuck aren't we selling the dolls to fix our teeth?" "Love to know who you think you are, that your audience is going to pull up and pay almost 50 grand for your bullshit ass smile. I know you fucking lie." Today, we are going to talk about it in an episode that I feel if I don't make my soul will rot from the inside out. Because watching a generation of young people turn into right-wing boomers at a time when we deeply need solidarity has been disperiding and I'm not one to turn my back on hope. This is the story of an influencer named Jules LeBron, but also of things bigger than her, things like the cycle of poverty, the misunderstood economics of being a content creator of who creates culture and who profits off of it, of class solidarity versus capitalist bootstraps grind set baby, a lot of things that I think are crucial to cover right now and I'm glad you're here for that. And I'm also glad to be joined today by one recurring friend of the show who just launched own YouTube channel. Welcome back, Kat Tenbarge and of new friend of the show, Francesca Ramsey, is a writer, actress and content creator. Dare I say expert in the industry of content creators. I'm so glad you're here. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having us back. Now, we're about to get into a lot, but I know both of you have been following this situation for the last several weeks and I want your high-level thoughts before we get into everything. I mean, I think the most cliff notes read that I have is that a lot of the backlash against Jules has been fueled by transphobia and by jealousy. And I think there are a lot of people weighing in not because they actually have anything worth saying, but because they're all trying to get views off of the situation and spend their own careers as content creators. But I ultimately think there's a lot that creators and aspiring creators can learn from this situation. And I think that that is the most important thing for me to stress in addition to showing empathy to Jules and her situation. 100% agree. I recently saw a different TikTok that was like, you guys are becoming so conservative and you don't even realize it. You are spreading conservative rhetoric and you don't even know. And I feel like this whole situation fits so strongly into this on multiple fronts. The bullying of someone for not being able to afford health care and for reaching out for help. As well as the overall context of this administration's brutal crackdown and rate of terror against trans people, those people would just have a little bit more discernment about what type of rhetoric they're feeding into when they do this. I also think this is a story about like virality. Yes. And how the vast vast vast majority of people have never experienced it. And I that might sound clearly according to TikTok commentators that sounds like an annoying thing to say that most people don't want to hear like, well, you don't know what it's like to become famous on the internet. But the truth is you don't. And it is a very weird and somewhat singular experience that I think we as a culture are like grappling with our own very limited understanding of it. But I think for that very reason, when you say that, the reason people react so negatively to it is most people on the internet want to go viral. And they believe that going viral is going to change their lives. And sometimes it does. Sometimes it does. But there are more people who go viral and it ruins their life rather than adds to it. It's it's almost impossible to explain that to people. There's no way to say it in a way that doesn't sound like, oh, you're an elitist and you're talking down to me. And it's it's like trying to describe the experience of love. Like I can't explain it to you. Once you feel it, you know it. And while going viral is is not always a pleasurable experience. More often times than not, it completely disorients people. And if it's not something that you have had experience with and you don't have a strong support system, a financial support system, a professional support system, it can really end up hurting you in the long run. And I think that that's what we've seen with jewels back in 2020. A lot of media outlets were referring to the explosion of TikTok content as the TikTok gold rush, which I think is a very apt term because historically the actual gold rush, similarly, it featured tons of people moving west, trying to strike it rich, hearing these tales of like unimaginable wealth that you could capture if you just went to the right place at the right time. And in reality, what happens to most of those people is that they did not strike it rich. They uprooted their lives. They encountered all of these other issues on the way there. And it was just a fantasy. And that is like what viability is. It's this fantasy that your entire life will be made and that you will be set as long as you can have that one successful video. But especially on TikTok, that is not the case. TikTok, like, manufacturers, this fantasy, that is not real. For those of you who have no idea what we are talking about with this Jewel's LeBron situation, look, I'm aware that some of, I'm jealous. I'm aware that some of you have lives. I'm aware that some of you are deeply employed. Good for you. Let me fill you in. Today, our story starts in Chicago. Jewel's LeBron is a 33 year old Latina trans woman living in Chicago. She's a Puerto Rican descent. Since the early 2010s, Jewel's has been making videos online about makeup and dolls. She's a doll collecting enthusiast, as well as sharing snippets of her journey transitioning and living as a trans woman. She says she was motivated to make makeup content for girls who weren't quote, '90 pounds and blonde. Okay, my name is Jewel's, I'm a trans woman that works at a truck stop overnight here on a station. Leave me your questions on the list and drop my shift. I'm about to go into work for the next 10 hours. So I'll see you then. Alright guys, I got another overnight shift. So let's go to work. After work, my grandma needed a ride to the doctor so I gave her a ride and then we went to Target in August, but don't mind my makeup. It's been 12 hours. Theory 3 was on sale for $7. I got three of them. I've been on the hunt for a doll that looks like me, but they don't exist. I feel gorgeous. I feel fabulous. And when I feel fabulous, I know I'm going to make good money. And it's because of this history, too, that she rejects the label of being an overnight success once she hit it big in 2024. Jewel's is perhaps most memorable, not for the things that she does, but the ways that she does them. She has an infectious personality and is effortlessly funny in her mannerisms. As TikTok became the rage in the post-quarantine early 2020s, as Kat mentioned. So astutely compared to the gold rush. I do love imagining it as that. And everyone digging through the sort of like, was it called when you like, pan the gold? They're sifting. Everyone's in their sandbox trying to get their viral nugget of gold. It's true. And Jules LeBron rode that wave to some success. Her following on TikTok ballooned to a million. But the money she was able to earn from beauty campaigns, sponsored posts, etc. was unreliable. And this is the first thing I'd like to pause and discuss, which is the myth that followers equals money. It absolutely does not. I mean, just think about the fact as we are all consuming content and you are following people, it doesn't mean that you are purchasing the things that they are selling, that you're showing up to their events, even with traditional celebrities, right? Like you consume their content. It doesn't mean that you watch their movies or listen to their albums or go to their concerts. The same is true for content creation. While there are a number of creators that are making money from the actual platforms themselves and from brands, it's very inconsistent. You do not have consistent source of income, you don't always know when you're being paid. Every deal is negotiated differently. Sometimes you have a net 30, meaning 30 days to payment the next 60 and at 90. Sometimes brands fail on you. And when it comes to the platforms themselves, your account gets strict. You get hacked. You get locked out of your account, right? And then as more people swarm in that gold rush that cat so aptly described, it changes the metrics of how everyone is getting paid. So you don't actually know how much you're making month to month. I think that's why it's attracted so many people who are looking to get rich because it feels like anybody can do it. Yeah. But the reality is it's very difficult and lightning only strikes every once. We can't all be Brittany Brosky. We can't all be Liza Koshi. Yeah. We've got a few of them and then the rest of us are working content creators. 100%. I also think people don't realize that the different platforms pay dramatically different amounts of money. Yes. Like there's been this perception for years that people who have big followings on Twitter are somehow rich or making a lot of money. Twitter wasn't paying until very recently. Yes. You don't make money from Twitter. Yeah. It's not much. And I make zero on Instagram. Most people make nothing on Instagram. I make zero on Instagram. Yeah. And I also just want to add here, I think this is important to say, I don't feel like I'm entitled to money. There's a lot of times this happens where people say, oh, I don't make any money. It's like, well, you don't deserve. I have a job. I'm very thankful when I get a check. I'm very good at what I do. I don't feel that I am owed anything. But the persistent belief that everyone on social media is making tons of money is just not true. And so when you hold creators to the standard of how dare you crowd fun for dental, dental care, you have two million followers. Reality is even with those significant brand deals that does not mean that the people that you are watching, whether it be jewels or someone else, are making a sustainable source of income, let alone are wealthy off of their online presence. Yes. This came to mind for me last month with the Page The Rens. No influencers sign controversy. Because when you look at someone like Page The Rens on Instagram, she has over a million followers. Her lifestyle is exorbitant. It is like so glamorous. She got married in July and the wedding looks like it was like a multi-million dollar wedding potentially. But something important about those influencers, they have money. There's a lot of them. They were wealthy before they were influencers. They already had money. They grew up going to like an Alpine ski school for high school. A lot of these influencers who have these massive luxury weddings, like the dance mom girls too, I'm like, these people grew up exorbitantly wealthy. They are not, I'm sure they make money from influencing, but that's not how they got that money. That's not where the majority of the income is coming from. And a lot of them were able to go viral in the first place because they were aspirational to begin with. Yes. Charlie Demilio became the face of TikTok very early on, and this is no shade to Charlie Demilio. But she came from a wealthy family in Connecticut with an aspiring Republican politician father. She was yes beautiful and a talented dancer, but she was all of those things in the context of a gorgeous white house that everyone wanted to live in. And I would argue she was also a talented dancer because her family could afford to put her in dance classes and nurture her talent. Charlie Demilio was also an interesting one because she has been very public about her contentious relationship with her family because of how they took advantage of her online career and they mismanaged her money. And so when we talk about having the familial wealth, it's also the business acumen to say, our kid is a star. We are going to pick up a move to LA. We're going to take meetings with agents. We are going to invest her money here where in a duties kinds of brand deals, whether she wanted to do them or not or whether she feels happy or secure in the relationship and what choices that they made. But the reality is especially if you are a black or a brown person or a queer person, if you go viral, chances are nobody in your family knows somebody SCAA or UTA or Gersh or can look over a contract for you when a brand deal comes in and makes sure this is in perpetuity. What does that mean? If nobody in your circle knows, you are set you are set up for failure from the jump because you went viral and you don't actually know how to capitalize on it because you don't have stage parents, right? And I think a lot of people forget about that. 100%. Also, I did just check on Instagram and my profile has received 54 and a half million views in the last 30 days. Thank you everyone. I appreciate it. But I just want to say in my own experience because a lot of why I feel compelled to make this episode is my own experience of being a more or less full time content creator for the past nine years, the last two of which I've had stable income for. And that is largely thanks to this podcast and things like the advertisers on this podcast and Patreon and ways that you have to like get creative to create consistent income because brand deals provide that for almost nobody. And I say this also because those 54 million views on my Instagram profile, they've converted to from the Instagram content itself zero dollars because Instagram doesn't pay creators. And it's not that I feel entitled to money as a creator. But when you consider how much ad revenue you as a creator and all creators are driving to these apps, which would be nothing without creators, it's like, yes, yeah, well, you should pay creators actually. That's something actually YouTube set a standard for and does a relatively good job of and it's something TikTok did a good job of at the very beginning of its platform when it had something called the TikTok creator fund, which it still has. However, nowadays creators on TikTok get paid pennies to the dollar of what they used to make because once TikTok had enough creators to sustain itself as a platform that could entertain people, they stopped paying creators nearly what they were paying before. Well, and I'll also remind folks that that oracle takeover was a big part of why the creator fund on TikTok is not what it is. And I think that that speaks volumes about the powers that be in this country and how they value our labor. The reality is they don't value our labor whether you are doing door dash or you are working in a grocery store or you're doing content creation or you are a teacher who is on the front lines educating students and possibly in harm's way if there is an active shooter, they don't care. They don't care about you. They do not want you to have a living wage. And so it is really frustrating to see people pair it these conservative talking points that pit all of us against each other because the conversation we should be having about jewels regardless of what you think about her content or think about her as a person because a lot of people are turning this into well, I don't like her. She's mean. Yes. What people I don't like also deserve health care. People that I don't want to spend time with deserve to be paid a fair and equitable wage. And as soon as it turns into what I think about this person as a person and if you work at McDonald's you shouldn't be able to make a living wage. I should not have to earn a living just to be here. If my labor is profitable to someone and I know that it is, I should be able to reap the benefits of that. And I don't think that that's unreasonable and ultimately there is enough to go around. All of these motherfuckers have multiple houses and boats and they don't do anything. But the rest of us are sitting here squabbling over pennies and it's not right. Yeah. Yeah. So it was out of this incongruity between jewels's early online fame and her ongoing financial insecurity that led her to develop a quote unquote serious cocaine habit. This led her to lose what little brand deal she did have, get dropped by her management, et cetera. And so in 2024, jewels called it a day and got a job as a cashier at Mariano's, a grocery store chain in Chicago from the guardian quote. After years of her mother telling her to get a normal job, she stopped trying to strike deals with big beauty brands. Her new life was very mundane, stocking shelves, organizing products, helping customers find things, sometimes working the cash register. I'm working a regular job to remember thinking, this is so good. I turned my life around the same week. Demure happened. Demure happened. You see how you do my makeup for work? Very demure, very mindful. I don't come to work with a green cut crease. Don't look like a clown when I go to work. I don't do too much, I'm very mindful while I'm at work. See how I look very presentable? The way I came to the interview is the way I go to the job. A lot of you girls go to the interview looking like Marge Simpson and go to the job looking like Patty and Selma, not demure. I'm very modest, I'm very mindful. You see my shirt? Only a little cheaty out, not my chocho. Be mindful of why they hired you. Here's your reality check, Diva. What's the name you'd like me to make it out to? In early interviews about the very demure, very mindful virality, Jules told the press that she filmed the viral video simply because she felt cute that day. Years later, she'd explain a more complicated story. One day, as Jules tells it, she was ringing up groceries at her cashier job when a customer recognized her from TikTok. She goes, aren't you on TikTok? And I said, yeah, she goes, so what are you doing here? And I broke down. I had to ask my manager if I could go take a break. I felt humiliated. I was like, 'cause what am I doing here? She asked her boss if she could take a break and went to her car where, through difficult emotions, she filmed the video that would change her life. Over the course of a week, the video's views began to skyrocket. A million views, 10 million views, 30 million views today. It sits at 58.3 million views. Jules, or at least her catchphrase, very demure, very mindful, were, as I'm sure you all remember, everywhere. It was quickly adopted into the content of celebrities like Chloe Kardashian. Do you see how I'm sitting here? Very lady-like, very mindful, very demure. Penn Badgeley. You see how I show up to work? Jamie Lee Curtis. Wearing a seatbelt, very mindful. RuPaul. See how I'm reading this book, very demure. Kamala Harris? Not to mention, of course, the brands. Brands started coming to Jules in hopes that she'd repeat her signature catchphrase while holding their products. Verizon, Zillow, Synergy Kombucha, and Netflix all collaborated with her to name a few. And as Jules tells it, brands that had previously been offering her $2,000 for a video back in the day, which, again, I know that sounds like a lot, but if you get one of those every couple of months, as we all know in the United States of America, that is simply not enough to live. And you have to pay taxes on that. And I think a lot of people go, well, of course, you have to pay taxes. Yes, we know we have to pay taxes, but when you get a raw amount of money, you get $2,000. Most people are not doing the math to say, how much of this should I put into savings, and make sure that I pay it back later. If you do not already have that level of financial literacy, $2,000, or $50,000, you do have to pay taxes on that. And a lot of creators, if you don't already have wealthy parents or a good accountant, are not prepared for that. Well, you segueed me perfectly into our next portion because these brands that had previously been offering her $2,000 were now coming back and offering her dun, dun, dun, upwards of $50,000 for a single video. When did the money start coming out? That started coming out less than two weeks after. Now it wasn't, oh, we'll give you $2,000 for a video. It was $45,000 for a video. Everything taken care of everything paid, which, as she says, was more money than either she or her family had ever seen. And I'd like to talk about financial literacy. Because in this story, much of the discourse playing out online has been about, well, you made $50,000 on a video, and now you're asking the public for money to cover your dental procedure? We'll get into all of that. But America has a very wild combination of an incredibly weak social safety net and no standardized financial literacy education. My financial literacy comes from my dad, who taught me how to do my taxes as a self-employed person, which if you've never done it. Doing your taxes as an employed person is a nightmare. As an employed person, with an employer that takes out taxes from your bi-weekly check or whatever it may be, doing it by yourself. When I tell you if I did not have my dad, I would be in jail. Like, I'm not kidding. - Yeah. - Yeah. - He taught me how to budget. He taught me how to compile expenses. He taught me how to submit my tax estimates four times a year because my dad-- - Quarterly taxes? - Yes. - I love it. You have to tell them how much money you think you're gonna make and then pay taxes on that. And then if you don't make that much money or you make more than that much money, then you have to relitigate how much money you thought you were gonna make. - You're gonna owe. - And then that's also talked about the fact, especially as creators, we are getting paid from businesses in different states. - Yes. - So there are different, there are different tax rules for, and for example, I sell merch. So I have income tax, I have state tax, I have tax from all these different places, if someone purchases something overseas, and then sometimes speak at a college. So you speak at a college in this state and then you do a deal with a brand in this place. All of those require different taxation amounts. And if you've never done it before, it is very overwhelming. And as someone that I did my own taxes for many years, using like an online tax thing, I always got it wrong. Every year, I would get anything I get to get in the mail, but it's like actually three years ago, you screwed up and now you owe us $4,000. And I'm like. - I'm like, then do it for me. - Yeah, I also last year was my first year as like a full-time freelancer, and I paid someone, I paid an accounting service to do my taxes for me, which was a lot of money, and they did them wrong again. - Yeah. - And you have to just trust them. - Yes, yes, unfortunately, I caught their mistake, but it's like, it is so inscrutable. The system is so difficult to work around, especially when you are self-employed, freelancing, and getting money from all these different sources. - Yeah, and again, I'm gonna be repeating myself here, but it is so frustrating to see people saying, well, you didn't know how to do your taxes, that type of problem. Like, you know, you should be more concerned with the fact that this is a systemic issue. Jewels LeBron is not the first person who has struggled with their taxes, and dare I say, a lot of the people flappin' their gums, I bet a number of them owe some taxes, and/or have fudged some numbers here and there, because it's confusing and it's deliberately confusing. - Yes, and simultaneously, the federal government is making it harder to do our taxes, because they took away the free filing system this past year, like making it more systemically difficult for everyone. - Yes, and do you know who doesn't struggle with taxes? Billionaires, because they don't comply with this system, they don't operate within this system, because billionaires have to bring my temperature down. (laughs) It's so weird how it's like the times that I get the most worked up on this podcast is when I talk about taxes. (laughs) - It's real, because it's unfair. - Because billionaires do a little thing called buy, borrow, die, and this prevents them from ever having to pay taxes, and I will try to explain this to you with no notes in front of me as succinctly as I can. Buy, borrow, die is a strategy wherein the richest people in America accrue assets like luxury homes, like yachts, like paintings, like enormous stock portfolios. Then, through with their millions and millions and millions of dollars of inventory, they take out loans from the bank for more millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars to fund their lifestyle, to buy whatever they want to buy. And what they say to the bank is I will use my existing assets as collateral, meaning if I can't pay back this loan, then you can take my $10 million painting that's hanging inside of a home that I never go to. The reason they do this to fund their lifestyle instead of liquidating any of the money that they have in stocks is because when you sell things from your stock portfolio, you have to pay what's called capital gains on the value that's been added to that asset since you purchased it. When you take a loan from the bank, you do not have to pay taxes on that money, you only pay interest on the loan. The interest is less money than the capital gains tax would be. Also, the interest goes to the bank and does not fund the federal government for services for the rest of us, but not only is the interest on that loan lower than the capital gains tax, it's also lower than the rate at which your existing assets are appreciating in value. This sounds a little confusing, maybe if you've never heard of it. - I mean, it's purposefully confusing 'cause only rich people can figure this shit out. - Rich people and me, but the reason that all of this, the reason that I'm telling you all of this is because this is how they get out of funding the government like the rest of us. do. This is how they avoid paying taxes and they are paying so little money in on that loan interest compared to how fast their assets are appreciating in value that they literally never pay anything. They don't pay anything. Wait, I'm losing my mind. We just finished recording the whole episode, but I realized I never explained the die portion. I only explained the buy and the borrow portion. The idea is I'm going crazy. I lose my mind when I talk about economics. The idea is you just keep accruing these assets and taking out loans using the assets as collateral instead of ever liquidating the assets. You basically live off of the money you're getting from those loans that you don't have to pay taxes on and you do that until you die and then you have something called in a state, your family then figures out what to do with the outstanding money that you have to settle with the bank. So you could just do this until you die and never pay taxes. Okay, back to the episode. Goodbye. And do you know how many people are aware of the fact that this is the rules that rich people live by versus how many people know that jewels Lebron mishandled brand deal money? Yes. I have the Joe exotic Instagram comment. It's all corrupt girl like playing in my head on a loop. It's also like simultaneously Trump is trying to get the government to declare his entire family like immune forever from tax fraud so they don't even have to like look at their tax documents. It's also like the Trump administration keeps pardoning white collar criminals who commit tax fraud to the tune of tens of millions of dollars and those stories get so little attention and so little airtime and those are like the people who TikTok should be furious about on a regular basis. Yeah, but it's easier to again have this moral high ground when the person at the center of the story is a plus size trans woman of color because that's a much easier target and I just see so many bad faith actors hopping on this story not because they actually care. Jewels is not taking money at anybody's pocket. I'm so thankful that a number of dentists chimed in to help offer her assistance, but there are people who are talking about this as if jewels came into their home. Yeah, as stole from them while the billionaires are stealing from you. Yes. Yes. Yep. I would like to give a shout out to the sponsor of today's episode in Cogni. 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That is 60% off at incogni.com/frudy. And now let's get back to it. I want to talk a little bit more about who creates culture and who gets paid for it. Because a lot of people are of the mindset that Jules LeBron created this meme that we all loved and that she was the person who reaped all of the profits from it. But my dear, she was not. While some brands worked with Jules directly to capitalize on her catchphrase, earning her what I would estimate reasonably to be several hundred thousand dollars in a year, many, many more brands used the trend in their advertising but did not work with Jules, did not credit Jules and notable to this conversation did not pay Jules. I've compiled a list of those here and I thought we could do a round robin from United Airlines, a tick-tock of United Airlines plane landing with the caption. Do you see how this at United plane landed? Very demure, very mindful, very cutesy. United Airlines that doesn't even fucking make sense. No, it really does it. I know and the examples are just going to get worse from the White House, a photo of Joe Biden. Canceling the student debt of nearly a million Americans through various actions, very mindful, very demure. Now I will say my student loans were one of the ones that were canceled. So I will give him a little bit of a pass on this one. But still like it's just we didn't, we didn't need this. It's also just like this is when did he post this August 2024. You see how I commit genocide, very demure, very mindful. Like fucking fuck you. Now he didn't post that one. There you go. Next up we have Jennifer Lopez advertising her alcohol beverage brand Delola cocktails, very demure, very mindful. Kim Kardashian on a Kim Kardashian. I don't know why. Kim Kardashian on a post advertising her shape where brand Skims wrote, see the way I take my BTS pictures, very cutesy, very mindful, very demure, not like the other girls. Duncan Donuts just keeping it real simple with a plain glazed donut just captioned very demure, but oh so irresistible, let our delicious glazed donuts bring a mindful moment of joy to your day. Here's the thing that always kills me about this. I know this went through like 30 revisions. A sauna was fired up. There was a zoom call. There was like so many talks about this. And it's just mid. It's just it's just like there was a context to the joke that Jules was making in that original video. I mean this isn't like the this is kind of the point of the episode though because it gets co-opted in a way that's like completely loses its meaning. You can't just post a video of a plain landing and be like the plain landed demurely. That's not the joke idiot. Well an emptier earlier question about who gets to profit off of culture. Once again we see people of color, we see queer people pushing culture forward and not being able to capitalize off of it. I think about you know the black girl behind on fleek and I hate to say that I don't remember her name but I think that that kind of proves my point because she did not get to profit off of on fleek. Should I go to Hello Kitty? Hello Kitty posts have a very demure week besties with a graphic that is giving like 2013 Pinterest that says demure mindful cutesy. In fairness I do think Hello Kitty is those things. I'll give them credit. The luxury fashion retailer Essence did an Instagram carousel with outfits for sale. See how I dress for work. Very cutesy, very demure, very mindful. Also I had no idea it was pronounced essence. I always just read it as sense. I also thought that. I also thought that. All right next up we have anthropology. It says the vibe we bring to the office. NARS with a group of lipsticks. Why be demure when you can be explicit? 18 shades of explicit lipstick luxury are available now at Sephora. Like okay. We have Warner Brothers, UK, so demure, so mindful, so so mindful. I'm losing my mind. Very cutesy. And then lastly from Paramount Plus, Dora explains demure. Can you say demure? Oh God. Are you mindful? Mindful. That's actually a pretty good Dora. It's a little, it's like a little squeaky, but it's good. Thank you. Thank you. I'm represented by UTA. Please re-charge my agents for voice-over work. People tend to focus on how much they think Juuls was paid in her capacity as an influencer for this trend, but I mean, comparatively, how much money was generated by corporations who did not collaborate with Juuls. Yes. And also, it's like, even if we generously assume that Juuls brought in several hundred thousand dollars during this time period, that is a good amount of money within a short amount of time, but that does not mean that she's going to consistently make that much money. And in fact, she's not. Yes. Take that big lump of money and spread it out over multiple years. Now, all of a sudden, it's much more comparable to what someone performing who's not a viral star could be making. Now you're seeing that it actually could still be financially difficult, much more like an average person to survive. And I think that people just look at these big lump sums and they're like, you're set for life. And it's like, actually, you're not set for life. Like actually, you are going to have to consistently work and that money will run out eventually. And Juuls has been very upfront about the fact that she also takes care of her family. We see this for, you know, when people win the lotto, for example, a lot of times people make bad financial decisions, it doesn't mean that they are absolved of the consequences of their actions. But if you've never had money before, it is not unreasonable to understand that you don't know how to stretch that money, that you don't know where to invest it, that you might make some superficial purchases like a car or an apartment building or designer goods and not think about the fact that this money train likely will run out. And I think to the point that you've been making, it's like, it doesn't absolve anyone of like the consequences of poor financial management, which again comes back to the problem of we don't have standardized financial literacy in a country where we also don't have a strong social safety net. But I think too, it's like, okay, in place of all of these things, can we not have more grace? And I think the lack of that grace comes from our misunderstanding of how the internet works and the fact that going viral and making a few hundred thousand dollars over the course of a couple of months, or even dare I say winning the lottery, we think that that puts the people that we're talking about that have earned these things into the oligarchy class. When in reality, they are still very much having more in common with the rest of us than the people than any of us have in common with the oligarchy class. And I think grace has to stem from that understanding. Yeah. And again, the real irony is a lot of the people that are adding to the dog pile, they often tell them themselves because they say, well, if I was given that kind of money, it's like, well, yeah, that's what's motivating you. You are seeing that someone is more successful or it perceived successful than you. And you wish that you could have a bite of that. So now you're trying to ride that person's coattails and go viral in hopes that you can have a piece of that pie and the reality is the pie is not that big. It's also like financial literacy can only take you so far. Like there is a whole genre of content on YouTube, exemplified by that evil man Caleb, where it's like he brings in people who are financially struggling and just like, braids them, verbally abuses them for like an hour and a half and is like, let's look at all your purchases. Oh my god, you went to the movies once. You're like, you have no literacy. Like, oh my gosh, you go to the gas station and buy snacks. Like what's wrong with you? Eat canned beans for the rest of your life. What went out? How much went out household income, that's probably what I said, household income, how much went out? I'm telling you, probably like 65, 7,000. That doesn't make sense. You just told me the household expenses are expenditures are 7,000 hours. You said you went on a trip. We did and it was great. Okay, that would probably mean your, the money went out is more than just your household expenses. So how much do you think went out? How much the fuck do you think went out? Never got to grieve my divorce. Who chose the divorce? I did. You don't know how expensive your kids are. I do. It is math. It is numbers. It's not math. It's not math. You can't just label like, oh, it cost 10 grand a year for each kid. I don't do that. But you're based on the household. Have you ever watched this or are you just a moron? In what fucking world did you guys think you were ready to bring in a child into this world? It's just like the same people who try to police who, what they spend food stamps on. This person has food stamps and they bought lobster. Right. Oh my God. Someone that's poor shouldn't be able to eat food that they are excited about or that do this good. How dare they? At the end of the day, like, life is very expensive and people have different needs. And I know we're going to get into this more. It's like, people have different medical needs. People have different needs for transportation. People have different dependents. People have unexpected things happen. People go through struggles. Like, life is very expensive and not having enough money cannot be solved ultimately by anything other than getting more money. Like the Caleb, whatever is of the world, want to make it all out to be like a product of poor financial decision making and sometimes that is the case. But more often than not, it is the fact that people are not paid enough to live. And that is like the root cause of financial issues in this country and beyond. Throughout this whole thing, I thought a lot about Paris's burning and ballroom. Mm-hmm. Paris's burning, if you don't know, first of all, you can go watch it on YouTube for free right now. And if you don't, I'm going to be side eyeing you a little bit. But it is a seminal, I believe, 1990 documentary of the Harlem ballroom scene, which is mostly populated by black and brown queer and trans people. And out of this culture came words like shade and sleigh and gag, which are now, of course, ubiquitous in mainstream culture. But they originated in ballroom among black and brown trans people. His words, fascinatingly, are also now generally understood as Gen Z slang. And the thing is like when I think of Paris's burning, which solidified a number of queer historical icons, and they are historical icons who, for the most part, are not here anymore. Because one, for example, Venus extravaganza, who is still quoted regularly for when she said, "Touch the skin darling, touch all of this skin." "Touch the skin honey, touch all of this skin, okay, you just can't take it." She, while being an icon and in the ballroom scene, was also doing sex work for survival as a trans woman in New York City in the 80s. And between the time that the documentary was filmed and when it was released, she was murdered in a hotel room by a client who didn't know she was trans. A number of the other people, if featured heavily in the film like her house mother, Angie extravaganza, died from AIDS in the years following the film. And this, I know this is like dismal to talk about in whatever, but it's like these are the people who created the culture that has become so ubiquitous on TikTok, that now most people just call it Gen Z slang. It's not. It's black and brown queer slang. And then use it to demonize trans people. "Love to know who you think you are, that your audience is going to pull up and pay almost 50 grand for your bullshit ass smile. Who is that? Exactly. No shade. No shade. No shade." And then use the language that trans people created. "To then shit on trans people. It's bonkers." A hundred percent. And it's just, it's hard for me when I see Dunkin' Donuts in United Airlines and Paramount Plus and the White House profiting handsomely off of social content that uses Jewels' trend to then sell their own products, meanwhile, two years later, the entire internet. And I do mean the entire internet. This was one of the top trending things on TikTok over the last month is yelling at her for not being able to afford her necessary dental procedure. It's hard for me to not fit that into this playbook of who creates culture and who profits off of it. And it's just not the same people. Continuing with our story, dictionary.com made Demure, the word of the year in 2024, after weekly searches for the word on the Dictionary website skyrocketed to over 13 million in late August. Now, what happens after you go viral? Well, in the short term, not much. If you're lucky enough to get sponsorship offers, which Jewels did, you do not make that money right away. And this is where I have the privilege and honor, my dear listeners, of explaining to you something that Francesca actually already brought up, which is net 30, 60, and 90, and anyone who has ever been an independent contractor or a content creator or a small business owner, the hairs are standing up on the backs of their necks because this is the bane of our existence. Do you want to explain net 30, 60, and 90? Yeah. I mean, the most cliff notes explanation is that it determines when you actually get paid, and you get paid when you invoice the client. So it is your job to actually send them an invoice and then it gets processed. And then when it's finished processed. Which can take any amount of time is then starts the clock to determine when you get paid either 30 days, 60 days or 90 days. And in the meantime, rent is due. The bills are due. I encounter this a lot as a freelancer. Like when I write an article for a publication, I'm not going to see the money for that article for like three months probably. And a lot of times they don't pay you and you have to chase them down. And be like, hey, where's my money that you promised me like a year ago that's still not in my bank account. And don't let them go out of business. Because that's happened to me before. I'm waiting on a check and then they announce, you know, we're done. We're closing our doors. Where is my money? It's like almost impossible. Especially if you are someone who does not come from money. If you are someone who is like working your way out of credit card debt. If you are someone who has financially struggled. Then this is almost impossible to budget within. Because you do not know when the money is going to arrive. Nor do you even know like what are my financial needs going to look like in three months. Like it is, it is so difficult. I think the freelance lifestyle, it can be very lucrative. And it can offer you a lot of freedom and there are pros and cons in other ways. But financially it's just such a nightmare. And this is true for influencers. It's true for journalists. It's true for artists. It's true for all kinds of people who work these types of jobs. And given the life cycle of memes. It is very possible if you become a meme for the peak of your fame to already be behind you. And still not have earned any money from it. And to be clear, Jules was, at least in the eyes of brands, a meme. She explained this in an interview with Tamron Hall. She said that she thought Demure was going to usher in a new realm of success where her personality could shine. So she got to work making high quality content for these brands that were contracting her. And over and over, they asked her to scrap what she had made. And just essentially hold up their product and repeat so Demure so mindful. Jules, of course, started to feel reduced to a meme and used. So then I'm putting, I'm getting cameras, I'm making content. I'm trying to give them the best brand, you know, advertising, I can give them. And they're like, what could you scrap all that and could you just say very to me or for us? You start to feel used, very used. Which is awful. I mean, it's just awful. Yeah. Realizing that you are a moment and not a person, especially after you've been working at this for over a decade. And so at the same time as Kim Kardashian is using Jules's viral catchphrase to sell shapewear, Jules is still living in a moldy decaying apartment in an area of Chicago where she felt her safety as a trans woman was constantly at risk. She felt that the only way out of this depression she was experiencing was to party. And so back came her cocaine habit. She was hanging out and using with men so she wouldn't feel so alone in her apartment. And shortly after her video went viral, she'd been hanging out with this man for a few days, a guy she thought was her friend. And at one point, she was like, you got to go home. He expressed to her that he was expecting a hookup from her, which she didn't want to do. Brief content warning, we're going to talk about assault right now. So fast forward a few minutes if you don't want to hear about that. The man shoved Jules's face into a door frame. Her nose was bloodied and bruised and she then locked herself into a bathroom without her phone for hours because he wouldn't leave her apartment. I'm screaming for help. And because the area I live in, no one knows it's not a joke and no one came to help me. And my best friend lives under the apartment under mine and she just couldn't hear me. He just shoved my face into a door frame. I don't know if I'm going to go out there and lose my life. And as a trans woman, that's something I do have to think about. She said quote. It just felt like this isn't real. Like how could I be having all these good moments that I live here? And there's mold on the ceiling and this guy trying to break me and attack me? It's like why does everyone care about everything going on but me? She said, if I opened up about any of this, I'd become hard to work with. Quote, why am I not happy? All of my dreams are coming true. I mean, it's unfortunate but we've heard this story from a number of celebrities who have experienced tremendous success. And success in that way can be very isolating and can open you up to being taken advantage of. There are a lot of people, again, this is what you see this with people who win the lottery. There was a woman who won very recently and she showed up to collect her earnings wearing a mask. And I said, good on you, girls. She said, I don't want anybody to know that I have this money because as soon as you have some level of success, suddenly everybody starts coming out of the woodwork and it is very easy for you to get taken advantage of. And so it's unsurprising and it's heartbreaking to hear that Jules was in this situation. But I think the context is important because it happens to a lot of people who experience success in a short amount of time. I can only fathom how dehumanizing it would be to be a person with trauma, a person with so much struggle and so much personality and so much depth to give and to be reduced to a catchphrase that you came up with on a terrible day over and over and over and over again. And it's like virality doesn't solve trauma, it compounds it. This is something I think a lot of people don't understand. Extreme visibility and being exposed to the world doesn't fix things for people. It often times makes it worse to your point that you made earlier, Francesca. And I also notice that people have a lot more sympathy for predominantly white child stars who this happens to. And of course, these tragedies unfold all the time and they are tragedies. My only wish is that people would have the same sympathy for a child star who they grew up watching as they have for someone in a position like Jules who is so marginalized, who has gone through so much and does not have those support systems and does not have that sympathy being a trans woman of color. And just like the only thing I would add to it is there's no support system for domestic violence, there's no support system for abuse, there's no support system for people who survive any form of sexual violence. Like no one is coming to help you, no one is coming to provide housing, to provide medical care, counseling or resources. It's a terrible systemic issue and in fact to Jules's own point, speaking up about it, disadvantages you more. It alienates you from whatever resources you may have and I just wish people would have just a little bit of empathy for people going through these types of things. Now eventually the money did start coming in. So what happened to the money Jules LeBron earned at the height of the very demure, very mindful virality? Well, a few things, first and most virally, she was able to pay for her top surgery, which typically runs trans women anywhere from 5 to $15,000. Next, she had to get out of that apartment. So Jules bought a three unit apartment building, this aspect of her story also continues to attract viral criticism with online sleuths framing her purchase of a three unit apartment building as a lavish or irresponsible purchase. Some even frame Jules as a landlord of sorts and I had to do digging because I was like wait a minute, am I about to make a whole podcast like defending a landlord and I'm not because she's not a landlord. She bought a three unit apartment building in Chicago so that other members of her family and their members of their family could also have secure housing. I feel like people like are confused as to like how I own my own apartment building. I bought a building that's like multi unit and each one of my family members like moved into one of the units. Like my mom's in the unit, my brothers in another unit with his family. My little brother lives in like your half of one of the apartments downstairs and then I live up here, which I think is so lovely and also this just presents another example of what we were talking about at the beginning of this episode. So Bran might not have had to do the things that we're about to talk about her doing insofar as asking for money for healthcare on the internet. If she had a family that she was not then responsible for housing. Yeah, Charlie D'Amelio when Charlie D'Amelio got famous didn't have to buy secure housing for her parents because they were rich. Also, these like white cis influencers buy homes for their family and friends all the time and it is framed as such an amazing act. Like even people who did have money already will like buy houses and stuff for their family and friends. Or they turn them into content houses. There is no one's living in them. They turn them into Airbnb's. They turn them into rental properties. They turn them into places that you can shoot content or film movies and TV shows in again. They have a level of financial literacy to say how can I turn this purchase into more money and a steady form of income versus you know who knows what the property taxes are on this building that jewels bought. We know a lot of people that buy homes then become house poor. Yeah, it's expensive to own property and if you're not anticipating a roof leak or something going on with the septic tank. or a natural disaster, or the winter, or whatever it is, up in the whole dramatically because you chose to buy property. More privileged influencers have made entire genres of content based around buying my best friend to house, buying my best friend a Louis Vuitton bag, buying my best friend's sister's cousin a new car. Like, I don't even have to name names because, you know, like people know, like, you can think of there are so many of them, there are so many of them. And it's just like, it is so striking how that is framed as charitable, good, aspirational, kindhearted, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then with Jules LeBron, trans one of color, you're a landlord. No. No. Jules has said that the best part of having these apartments is that her whole family can hang out and chat without driving hours to see each other, which to me is so human and so reasonable. And also not the explanation of someone who is a part of the oligarchy class, like this is someone who bought apartment, I think I've made my point. The lack of grace is crazy to me. And the lack of like being able to identify with this person is crazy to me. She also explained in January of this year to your point, Francesca, while she was saving up for facial feminization surgery, which if you don't know, refers generally to a combination of facial cosmetic surgeries, some trans women opt for, which can cost between 30 and $70,000 out of pocket. While she's saving up for this, she explains that buying the building for her family had made her cash poor. And made a TikTok this January about how hard it is to explain what that means to the internet. And she's kind of a profit for doing that because just a few months later, the internet would get very angry with her for not having as much money as they thought she did. The last sort of lingering thought I have about this is that at this time period around demure when Jules is reaching this peak of virality and visibility, another thing that comes into play here with transphobia and all of the other bigotries that Jules is targeted through. I also think people probably are just seeing all of this red attention and being like, "Oh, you're so lucky, everybody loves you." What they're not seeing is the types of harassment that you receive as a very high-profile creator that is very targeted around your appearance, your race, your ethnicity, your sexuality, your gender, your weight, all of these different things. That's what people don't see. And it's like that's the darker side to this level of visibility as well that compounds these offline traumas as well. Those are the things that I think stick in someone's head and can make it very, very difficult and send them out searching for coping mechanisms because it's like, "I'm receiving all of this horrible treatment and nobody cares about the real me, but I do suddenly have this influx of cash, so I'm going to make myself feel better." That is a very, very deeply human response and it is something that people of all walks of life do. But again, who do we have sympathy for? Who do we have empathy for? I would like to take a quick break from the show to give a shout-out to our friends at NordVPN for sponsoring this episode. I recently did something very exciting. I was in a documentary about Elon Musk for the BBC. It is called The Elon Musk Show. I believe the episode that I'm in is called The Next Chapter. Now, I was very excited to watch this and it did just come out on the BBC. But here's the thing with the BBC. 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Now Jules Lebron did get sober in early 2026 at which point she became forthcoming about much of what we've discussed in this episode so far. She's also said, though, that this period of addiction brought it her teeth, which is something that can happen when you get addicted to drugs. In about a week ago, she posted the following video. My teeth are falling out of my head and I need your help. Listen, I'm very uncomfortable making this video because this is a video I thought I'd never have to make. Well, maybe four or five months ago, I had a deal with a dentist and he was going to completely take all my teeth and give me brand new, a brand new set of teeth because through addiction, my teeth are severely destroyed. The deal ended up falling through. For the past maybe two months, you guys know I've been on my own dental health journey. I've gotten a few cavities filled, I had a root canal, and every time I go to the dentist, it's made clear to me. I'm fighting in a pill battle. It's made clear to me that no matter how much I do here, I'm going to eventually have to take on all my teeth and I've already spent $6,000 on this. I don't know what else to do. I don't want to ask my community for help, but I feel like I have no other choice at this point. I wanted to fix my teeth out of my own, but I can't go on like this. Every day it hurts. It hurts to drink water. It hurts to drink water, girl. I have a hole on each side of my upper side of my teeth. It hurts. I hate that I have to come to the internet and ask for help because everyone's struggling, but I don't know what else to do. I got sober. I did everything I had to do. I'm trying to be a full-time influencer still, and clearly I don't think it's working out in the best manner, but everyone always says, "Reach out when you need help. I need help. I really need help." Could you guys just explain for people who are out of the loop how people reacted to this video? Oh, it's a bloodbath. Go get a regular job there, bitch! No! What? What? You know, Jules has a lot of jewelry and even a full Pac-Man game in their house. You know, they can sell a lot of things if they really want to have this done on their teeth. I can't help but think about where all the money went. We bought an entire apartment-style building. And I also do think that her live is a form of emotional manipulation. What do you think? Should Jules have a GoFundMe? Will you donate? Leave a comment, tell me how you feel, and don't forget to follow me for more how it takes. I mean, I think it was the perfect storm of Jules having a massive audience. A lot of people know who she is. Demior was this huge meme. You know, the fall from grace was something that unfortunately a lot of people were delightful over. And suddenly every single person that's ever had drama with her or had any sort of encounter with her or, you know, I never liked her. We're suddenly weighing in and they were seeing, "Oh, talking about this is getting huge views." And it was just incentivizing more people to pile on and speculate about how she spent her money and clipped together her on Tamron Hall, talking about how much she was getting and then clipping it with her crying out of her teeth, I mean, it was pretty hostile and difficult to watch in real time. Yep. I've also been seeing a lot of influencers who just literally are like conservative or not, or not. But sometimes, yes. Sometimes people who support Trump who are getting on and being like, "I'm so responsible with my money and I would never ask my followers for money." And it's like, yeah, you don't have to like, you're a multi-millionaire. Yes. That else is there to say. And it's fascinating to me that that attitude gets more cheers online. Like, yeah, you're like a successful wealth hoarder versus like, "Oh, you're struggling. Let's all combine our forces to make it even worse for you." I mean, I spend very, very, very little time on TikTok because it stresses me the hell out for reasons that we're talking about today. But even in my limited capacity as someone who spends like maybe five minutes a day on that app, it was all of a sudden everywhere. Yeah. All of these videos being like, "Jewels LeBron should have done this and Jewels LeBron is an idiot." And this did like hundreds of thousands of likes, millions of views on these videos. You would have thought, like before I actually knew what had happened, you would have thought she had put a gun to the head of each of her followers and said, "Put the money in the bag right now." Because like my most sympathetic possible interpretation of people having a negative reaction to this video, barring all of the systemic realities that could very reasonably bring someone to the point of asking for help to afford something like this is like, "If you find it that distasteful, that someone who at one point made a lot of money is now asking for help, you can just ignore it." Well, I also thought it was ironic because just a few months ago, y'all were whacking James Charles. - Whacking. - Give people context. - So, you know, Spirit Airlines filed for bankruptcy and everyone that worked there was laid off and a laid off Spirit Airlines worker dared to send James Charles, a DM asking if he could donate to her GoFundMe and he fired off a video screaming about how dare she asked him for money and she wasn't even following him. I mean, just the disrespect. If you're gonna ask me for money, you should be putting money in my pocket first. - Got a DM on here from a girl that said, "Good morning, James. I know you'll probably never see this, but if you could just take one minute to read, it would really mean a lot to me. I'm really struggling right now because Spirit Airlines just held for bankruptcy and I haven't lost my job. Here's the GoFundMe link. Any donations help. (laughing) I'm sure they do sweetheart. I'm sure they do. You know what else would help you? Getting another job. - And rightfully so, a number of people, myself included, I put together a super cut contrasting how he was crying about TikTok possibly being banned versus how he was responding to someone saying, "Hey, I just lost my job," right? So when his job is in danger, he's on the verge of tears, but when someone loses their job out of the blue and is now worried about keeping a roof over their head, he is chastising them and the whole internet jumped in to say, "This is wrong." You know, you didn't have to donate, you didn't have to even respond. And now here we are a few months later and a lot of those very same people are gleefully saying, how dare jewels ask for support when the same applies. You could just scroll on, you don't have to donate. - I also think TikTok, for various reasons, is just so excellent at staging a misogynistic smear campaign. - The algorithm is incredible with that, yes. - This platform loves a mass harassment campaign of a woman for doing something that isn't even bad. Like we see it on TikTok all the time. - And the prevailing sentiment through all of the criticism was, "Go get a damn job." And to that, I wanna raise a couple points. One, jobs in the United States are not legally required to cover dental insurance. Two, do you wanna know something about dental insurance? - It sucks. - It covers nothing. Unlike medical insurance, which also sucks. Dental insurance has a cap on how much they will cover each year, which is usually between one and two thousand dollars. The national average price for full mouth dental reconstruction, which is what jewels needed, is 30 to 60 thousand dollars, but can go as high as 90 thousand dollars. So in the context of that, a 45 thousand dollar asking go fund me, which you never were required to donate to, makes a lot of sense. Now my question for those in the audience, who say, "Jules, just get a job." Which by the way, she started doing a job. Contrification is a job. Also, have you seen the job market lately? - Yes, also bad. - In any other context, we would all rightfully acknowledge that the job market is shipped, but because we wanna get angry right now, this person, we can say, "We'll go get a job." What kind of job would alleviate the weight of a procedure this expensive? - And what job, if she got a job tomorrow, what job is going to one, deposit your dental insurance immediately, and two, allow you to take off time to get this kind of extensive surgery? 'Cause you are not getting this done and going back to work the next day. To your point about the job market, I know so many people that have lengthy resumes and multiple degrees, and they cannot find a job. So add on to "Jules being a trans one of color" with a public profile that has not had a consistent job history on paper, right? Like a resume that's gonna say, "I worked at this place, and this place, and this place," that is then going to be able to walk into an office and say, "I need a job and get one tomorrow." It's just not feasible. - And for the type of, like, for most jobs, actually, the process from that first interview or filing your application to actually walking in and getting paid is like three to six months. - I know. - Oh, you have to work a full month. They're on in that 30. - Yeah, right. - And you always, you're always like, no, when do I get paid? They're like, "Oh, sorry. We pay every three weeks, and you got here on week three. So you'll get paid next month." - Yeah, and toothpaste paint is excruciating. Have some empathy people. - And to me, what's frustrating is at least regarding all of the job stuff, it's like most of the people participating in this pile-on theoretically-- - Don't have jobs. - Yeah. - Okay, well-- (laughing) - A lot of y'all don't have jobs. 'Cause I, and this is no shade at someone that has a job and will be clocking in when I go look at your pages. I'm like the amount of content you post every day tells me you don't have a job, and that's okay. But again, you have so much iron for what jewels should do when you can't do it yourself. - I was actually gonna, that is one theory. (laughing) I was gonna say, like, just 'cause I think the majority of like working adults in America, like, which I guess then we could debate whether these people are working. But it's like, they know these things. They know how hard it is to get a job. They know how hard it is to actually get paid. They know how hard it is to get your insurance to cooperate. They know how hard it is to do all of these things. And that is why it is so dispiriting to me. When people behave like this online towards someone else who has so much in common with them that they refuse to acknowledge, and it's like you are submitting to this right-wing American capitalist grind set that's like, I will always participate in this rat race better than you can. - Yep. - Mm-hmm. I mean, haven't you needed help before? Don't you probably also need help affording things right now? Why are we all competing in the rat race when we could be rightfully criticizing the nature of the rat race for all of us? - Yeah. - Not to sound like a total lefty podcaster about it. (laughing) - No, exactly. Like, why don't we have universal health care don't even get me started? - Yeah, unfortunately I think a lot of people have fooled themselves into believing that if you take somebody else down a peg that you win by default. And in reality, a lot of the attention and energy that has been expelled on bringing jewels down has not helped the people get further in their own lives. And again, I maintain a lot of people are piling on because they are aspiring creators themselves. And they are looking at how much jewels or they believe jewels has made. And they are saying, well, if I have a viral moment, maybe I can start making that kind of money. And I will be smarter than she was. And I'll be able to pull myself out of the current circumstances that I'm in. - It's the famous, every American thinks they're a temporarily embarrassed billionaire quote. - Yes. - And like we see this discourse all the time in so many different ways. Like, I hate when I see people make fun of minimum wage workers for tipping culture. I hate when I see people making fun of door dash drivers and people who work at Instacart like stop, like these people are not your enemy. You have more in common with these people who you purport to despise or end and judge than you will ever have in common with the people who are enforcing these conditions on all of us. - Jewels has also explained, and this was a great point of contention, how it's hard to get a quote unquote normal job when your social media presence is as prolific as hers. - And then also, have you ever been an internet celebrity who tried to get a job? - A claim which many people are critical of, and which some have, in my opinion, very bad faith interpretation to be, Jewels thinks she's too famous to get a nine to five. - That's not it at all. It's like, it is so hard to get a job in general to Francesca's point. Jewels now has this lack of on paper employment that will make it very difficult to get a white collar position because it's always like, explain this gap on your resume. And I was briefly viral, is not going to cut it. Also being a trans woman of color, she already faces so many barriers and biases to this type of employment. It's also like, Jewels has worked part-time and more closer to minimum wage jobs recently, and that being the inception of the Demir videos, someone being like, why are you here working at this grocery store? It's just so frustrating. It reminds me of how actors who worked on sitcoms like 20 years ago, people will take pictures of them like bagging groceries and splash them on the internet and drive harassment toward these people. There's a lot of parallels between like more mainstream entertainment work as like a side character as someone who was famous like 20 years ago and what is happening to Jewels now. - It's also like true to like an extent about influencers in general. I mean, I'm sure anyone can comment. Well, look at this influencer, they have a job and look at this former actor, they have a job. Sure, I mean, I know for myself, I would struggle to get, (laughs) and you could say I'm a unique case because I am like very outspoken politically and that's my whole thing and like that would be a hindrance to getting a quote unquote normal job, but my online presence would make it hard for me. And you all know this. I mean, when you're applying for jobs, one of them. the first things that people will give you as a piece of advice is like scrub your socials or make your socials private. And so when you have been making a job for yourself of acting, you know, vivacious and like, you know, embodying your full personality on social media, you're going to scrub the whole thing. I mean, it's like what there is really truth to what she's saying. Yeah. And again, this is all under the assumption that what she's already doing by making content and entertaining people online isn't a job, which it is. And like I said, that getting a nine to five would make a $45,000 medically necessary dental procedure affordable in the first place. Like I just when I have interviewed people for articles at various publications, it doesn't matter how like tame the topic is most people don't want to speak on the record with their first and last name because they are afraid of it harming their future employment prospects. And I have also know multiple people in the field in the media industry, which could be where jewels someone like jewels would be looking for a job who have been declined work because they had a hashtag in their bio that said me too or free Palestine. And then they are denied work opportunities because of that. And you can't scrub your social media when you've had 5,000 news articles written about you. You can't take down other people's Reddit posts and repost and all of that stuff like it's impossible. Because the fact of the matter is most employers don't want to deal with anything they have to provide public relations cover for. Fascinatingly on one clip of a video where she's explaining this and she says, you know, it's complicated to get a job as an internet celebrity. The top comment with 45,000 likes is someone who just wrote internet celebrity, like clearly mocking the fact that she called herself an internet celebrity and it's like, okay, well, so she's simultaneously too famous and rich to be in this position in the first place. But then when she refers to herself as an internet celebrity, you're saying, no, you're not a celebrity and you're not famous enough to call yourself famous. So what I'm detecting here is something I have a very hard time explaining away without the use of words like transphobia and misogyny and racism. Like I'm just going to say it. It becomes an impossible standard because which is it? Is she irrelevant and not a real internet celebrity or is she hyper privileged and unable to ask people for help and sympathy and empathy? The reality is these people just don't like her and they are grasping at straws to justify their dislike of her, which is probably and at least some of these cases rooted in bigotry. I also, I do not, this is not exclusive to TikTok, but something about TikTok culture makes people so mean. I see other platforms actually trying to replicate whatever is in this secret sauce at TikTok that makes people so mean because Instagram Reels have been doing this thing for a while now where they specifically take the meanest comment and put it at the top of the comment section, regardless of how many likes it has. And they're trying to replicate this culture which is already very successful in TikTok where people are just like heartless and this is why I also don't like TikTok. I cannot spend that much time on there. I'm like, there's something wrong with all of you. I'm sorry. Well, I mean, I, you know, I do kind of get it though because it is famously one of the biggest issues with our society is that everyone's too nice. I just like, yeah, I don't know. People are always trying to like clap back isn't even the right word. Like people are always trying to find something to pick at in these comment sections because it gives them a boost. Like it makes them get a lot of internet clout and they like that feeling, but it is very anti-social and it is very conservative. Amidst the online pile on people also unearthed old videos of Jules Lebron that she posted in 2022 while living in poverty when she made a go fund me to buy a car because she was getting as she says continually harassed on public transit for being a transgender woman. I'm a trans woman who takes public transportation every day. I have to work and I haven't been working for a month or so now and because because I'm trans because it's so hard to get a job when you're trans and I finally got a job and I have to take public transportation. Cool. Fine. I'm going to suck it up. I'm trying to stay for a car. So that way this does things like this don't happen anymore. I've posted on my TikTok before where I've been verbally assaulted. I've been discriminated against. I've been used. I've been sexually assaulted harassed. I've had physical threats towards me. I've been physically assaulted all for just being trans and existing. I just want to get to work and pay my bills like everyone else. The top comments on one of the reposts of this video were why are they acting like being also there was all throughout all of this. There was a lot of misgendering on all of the commentary coverage of it which lends itself to my conclusion that so much of this is her being trans but anyway why are they acting like being trans is a disability like hello oh she's done this before and perhaps my personal favorite she never once thought to sell that doll collection for money. These posts each have over 6,000 likes. The one of like why are they misgendering acting like being trans is a disability. Are you alive right now? Like what are you talking about? Trans people are currently the most legislated group in the United States. What are we talking about here? In some states trans people can't drive because if they're driving with a license that was legal like six months ago they'll go to jail where they'll be forcibly detransitioned in prison. Being trans is a massive systemic barrier to overcome much like a disability. Jules is not acting like being trans is a disability. Jules is a trans person dealing with modern genocidal life towards trans people. Yeah I think if you are on social media hanging out and find yourself in community with someone making fun of a trans woman for wanting a car so she can avoid public harassment on the subway. You might be part of a right wing smear campaign. Yeah it's time to flick out of that app and go outside amidst the online pile on of Jules Lebron for advertising ago. Fun me for a medically necessary dental procedure on TikTok that she had already taken down in waltzes none other than cockroach of the show Jeffrey star Jeffrey star first went on TikTok live where he begs for money and ranted for six minutes about how horrible of a person Jules Lebron was for sharing this go fund me should I go ask a stranger you guys to pay for my groceries right now. Hey Jules can you join in the boxes real quick I want to I want to ask you how you have the balls to ask a stranger for 45k. I'm going to go walk in a target right now and we'll see if a stranger will pay for my groceries for me. Oh there's Jules crying and then follow that up with a post that has currently over a hundred thousand likes on TikTok where he says today we're at the dentist I'm paying for my own teeth cleaning it's very demeanor very mindful I'm not like the other girls I don't expect my entire audience a blue collar nine to five workers to pay for my $45,000 smile I'm very cutesy I'm very respectful I really do not like that person. Welcome to the bit fruity podcast. What do you think the odds are that Jeffrey star scheduled a dentist appointment just so he could film this TikTok being mean to Jules Lebron because he knew it would do numbers quite high given how infrequently the average person goes to the dentist I think there is a very high probability of that being the case he's a professional bully god I don't even know where to start with Jeffrey star it's been mind blowing to see his rebrand and it just confirms what I've said many times before that cancel culture is not real because this is someone who has a long history of saying absolutely despicable hateful racist things and he continues he's like a cockroach he just continues to proliferate regardless and the fact that he would fix his mouth to chime in on this just rings as so disingenuous clean and take care of your own house before you speak on anybody else truthfully and it's frustrating to me how many people look at somebody who has a long history of stealing from black women from being a transphobe while wearing a bus down lace front like let's see how you how you a transphobe and you borrowing from the girls like how I don't understand how that's possible like self hatred has truly pickled your brain at this point that he's able to talk about trans people in that way like you're not one of the good ones and ultimately not to quote myself but the lepers will eat your face and I will not feel bad for you when the conservative bigots that you continue to cozy up to turn on you yeah because you get you're not getting ahead by slamming jewels abroad and it's it's just frustrating to me to see people who should know better kikiying in his comments all hundred percent Jeff Every star has like a 20 year history of bullying and being accused of sexual violence against a litany of people, including trans and gender non-conforming individuals. Since the days of my space, Jeffrey Star has been bullying trans people to the point of self-harm and attempted suicide. This is just part of that history. This is what Jeffrey Star does. Jeffrey builds his career and his following off of harassing marginalized people, especially queer people. Jeffrey makes a ton of money from doing that. And who is in Jeffrey's audience? A lot of blue-collar people and a lot of people from very low income backgrounds. A few years ago, when I was covering Jeffrey more regularly, I used to wonder who is buying all of these hand mirrors. He sells so many of those makeup mirrors, so many of them in every shape. Yes, and I was like, who is buying their 50th Jeffrey Star hand mirror? And I would go in the replies and look at the fans who were posting pictures where they would have like 50 of these hand mirrors on their walls and looking into their accounts a little bit. And it was almost all people from very, very low income backgrounds. People who were on disability, people who were living in mobile homes. What was Jeffrey Star's, and maybe still is, Jeffrey Star's primary audience. So when he gets on here and is like, I don't ask people from low income backgrounds for money. Yes, you do. That's how you make your money. That is your whole life and has been for decades. Jeffrey Star, to me, keeps himself relevant by making the worst type of content. He investigates who is already being hated and then always makes content adding to the pile on. He's not even creative enough to start his own misogynistic hate campaign. He always waits until he can find out where popular opinion already is and who it's popular to rag on and creates viral content based off of that momentum. And the people that he's sending hate towards are, like you said, most often women of color, trans women of color. He's been doing this for decades and when Jeffrey Star goes on TikTok every day and begs for gifts, what is that if not begging people for money? But moreover, when Jeffrey Star is building a fortune, a multimillion dollar fortune, selling his followers makeup, makeup, which is famously one of the most marked up products in retail. Is that not begging your followers for money that you're selling them a lipstick that costs X dollars to make and you're selling it for 20 times more? Who's fleecing who and for how much? And what's every spending his money on, designer clothes, six figure hush money payouts to accusers of sexual violence? Like, Jeffrey Star is one of the most despicable influencers I have ever encountered. And the fact that he gets to take the moral high ground and people on TikTok, like, give him that ability to sickening and not in the fun way, yeah, exactly. And the last thing I cannot not say this, when people like Jeffrey Star and other influencers say that jewels is specifically asking an audience of minimum wage and low income and working class people in her audience, that's not the truth, Ellen. You know who else is in jewel's audience? The six figure white collar advertising marketing workers who watch her content to try to find new catch phrases to make millions of dollars off of. Some of the people watching these TikToks who have the opportunity to donate are the ones who capitalize on these people and don't give them a dime and enjoy life that is so much more privileged than the very people whose work they exploit. So those people are also in the audience of these TikToks. Yeah. To bring this home, it's like, if you are on the side of some sort of controversial internet issue and you find yourself next to Jeffrey Star, I don't like to make blanket statements, but you're on the wrong side, my friend. You are. It's literally a vulture. So what is the point of this all? Why are we here today? I think we fleshed out a lot of topics, but I think I just want to round it out by saying like, we all need help. And I don't literally mean every single person in America, but like most people in America, most people in this country can't afford what they need or would be bankrupted if something serious were to happen. We all need help. The average ambulance ride in the US costs between $1,200 and $1,400. A hospital bed for one night averages over $3,000, but can surpass $10,000 when you factor in doctors, tests, and medicines. In emergency room visit, averages between $1,500 and $3,000 can attest, had to take my boyfriend to the emergency room very recently, a traumatic experience, trauma compounded when you're literally still sitting in the stretcher and they tell you how much you owe. Yes. Yep, I have put my friend in an uber to go to the hospital instead of an ambulance. Like these are just experiences that we share as Americans that should never happen to anyone. Think that Jules LeBron shouldn't have ever needed that $45,000, mouth reconstruction in the first place because it was her fault for getting addicted to drugs. Okay, the national average price of a 30-day rehab program is $12,500. We all need a better safety net. We all need help. And you are submitting to an American exceptionalist, right-wing bootstraps, capitalist bullsh*t mentality when you insist that someone is your foe or beneath you for asking for help. Because you can simply ignore, instead of acknowledging the systems, the medical, the cultural systems that led the person to request help in the first place. And that's why every single time y'all start talking about we need, we need to do a worker strike. I'm like y'all will snitch on your neighbor because their music was too loud. Y'all are not trying to work with anybody, y'all will dog pile a trans woman that you don't even know because she had the nerve to say she was struggling. But then suddenly when something happens in the world, people are like, why aren't Americans, why aren't we banding together? It's because you don't know how to build community in the smallest ways. And then it magnifies it really starts with taking care of your own community and being able to pour into each other and offer grace, sometimes to someone that you don't know, or you might not like or vibe with personally. But just to recognize like, yeah, we're all in this together, high school musical six. Like, it's not helping us to start squabbling when the powers at B are the real ones that continue to profit and hold us down. We are at a real tipping point right now. And I know it's easy to think of like all of the past several decades of American history as a big tipping point, but. This is the most influential election of our lives. We're going. Exactly. Vote, vote, vote. Sorry, sorry. But it's like, there is an unprecedented level of momentum right now behind DSA candidates, behind progressive values, behind initiatives like universal health care and a universal basic income. These are ideas that are growing more and more popular by the day. How convenient that on billionaire-owned tech platforms, these movements to distract and deflect from these causes and instead focus all our rage and energy on the very marginalized folks themselves who are suffering is so popular wake up she full. Like we need to be united behind these ideals now and that is what billionaire oligarchs are terrified of. That's so true. And fuck Jeffree star and free day. Should we just start ending the podcast with that? Fucked every star, and we'll see you next time. Stay broody, I love you, I'll see you next time and fuck Jeffree star. Cat and Francesca, where can people find more of your work? Cat, I know you have a big announcement. I do. Just a few days ago, I launched my very own YouTube channel. It is @cattenbarge, the first episode features Matt and I talking about Britney Spears. And I know a lot of a bit for the listeners are already over there and thank you so much to this community. It means so much to me. And you can also find me at my newsletter, spitfirenews.com and @cattenbarge on most of these platforms. And Francesca, where can people find more of what you're up to? And they really should, you are such a fabulous presence online. I'm Francesca Lee, C-H-E-S-C-A-L-E-I-G-H, all across social media. I also have a podcast, let me fix it right here exclusively on YouTube. And yeah, that's it. Matt, this was so cool. You are a delightful host and someone that I've enjoyed for so long online. Please don't be a stranger. I would love to come back or find another way for us to collaborate. Oh, you're the best. Thank you. So much my dear listener for tuning in today. I really appreciate it. This was Growing in my body like a black hole of a bacteria parasitic infection that I needed to talk about because I was getting so frustrated with what I was seeing online Because I think that we could all do ourselves if not other people a huge favor by extending a little bit more grace Because at the end of the day we have I sound like Abdul al-Sayed. I sound like Haley Stevens I'm like we have we have so much more in common than what divides us. We really really do So please remember that take it to heart. I sound like a preacher. I'm annoying myself. I'm probably annoying you I love Jeffery star comes to me in my dream I love you so much. I will see you next time and until then. Fuck Jeffery star