You’re not crazy

Welcome to "Oomly Being", where we flip the script on everything you think you know about periods, productivity and power. I'm Erin Glimmer, founder of Rosie Futures, a brand consultancy for feminist founders and small businesses. And I'm Rosanna Jones, menstrual psychologist, Hater and Coach. This podcast is for anyone who's ever felt broken, burnt out or blamed for not fitting into systems that were never built for us. We're here to pass the button to share what we've learned and invite you to remember what your body already knows. You're a cyclical being living in the cyclical world. Let's begin. Welcome to episode one of "Oomly Being", where I'm joined by my lovely co-host, Marin, I'm Rosanna. And together we've created this podcast series. And the first episode is called "You're Not Crazy". So today we'll be giving you some of the validation around some of the things that you've struggled with when it comes to your periods and your menstrual cycle and naming those. And then we'll also be doing some myth busting. So what are some of the common beliefs and misconceptions and strongly held sort of feelings and identities that we have around periods in the menstrual cycle. But before we get into that, I wanted to talk a bit about how Marin and I met. So we met through a co-working community. And that was the start of a beautiful friendship that is constantly blossoming. And we've come together really to collaborate on something that we're both so passionate about. Marin joined my programme called "Protect My Deepest Desires", which was a programme I designed to rewrite the narrative around pre-menstrual dysphoric disorder and PMS, pre-menstrual syndrome. And it was all about really shaping and shifting the ways in which people think about the pre-menstrual time in their cycle, because so often that's the part of the cycle that just is really dismissed, is really shunned and stigmatised. And it can also be the part of the cycle where so many women and people who menstruate face such extreme pain and suffering. So I really wanted to challenge that, having overcome my own issues and challenges with my menstrual cycle and having personally experienced PMDD for years. Yeah, Marin joined my course back in November 2024. Yeah, do you want to speak a bit about that Marin and Tanya? Basically, you've changed my life completely. I had PMDD my entire life and I didn't even know it was a thing in the world, basically until I met you. And you've taught me how to get back to myself, but in the deepest profound way, that essentially released me from feeling ashamed and guilty and severely depressed as well, about not being able to function like a normal human being. And being in the workforce, but also in general. So yeah, it was transformative. And I think I called you a portal at some point. Yeah, I stand by it. Equally, I feel like you're a portal. It's about how we're created and even bigger portal together through this project. And I'm so grateful that you were a part of it. And it was such a magical time to be doing that work and the group of people that we were doing it alongside because it is really I created that program out of feeling like there was nothing really out there that I could see or there was very few things that were challenging the mainstream narrative around premanstral conditions, which I think is part of the whole pathologizing. I mean, I feel pathologizing of, yeah, I've menstrual cycles anyway, but I really felt like there was no one promise in any alternative in terms of you can actually heal this you can you can overcome it. It's it's not long limiting condition that you have to face, but equally recognizing that so many people have been through so much when it comes to their periods and particularly things like PMS and PMD day. It's hard to believe that there is an alternative so it was like recognizing where people are essentially what we're doing now that validate and then that myth busting and that what what actually is on the other side of everything we've been taught is a bit of a lie to be other. Yeah, but also now that I'm thinking about it and who you the fragmentation of not seeing the bigger picture and how everything connect. Yes, yeah, and almost see seeing the separation isn't it and that we've we've been separated from such a natural part of ourselves our rooms our cycles and that separation means that we can't be whole whole people whole beings. In the world because we're experiencing this huge disconnective this is something that I experience every month but it feels like it's happening. It's happening to me rather than it's happening as as part of me like it's yes, I have any influence or effect over it. Exactly that I can build my awareness around it. Yes, being a womanly being. Yes, perfect. So just for context, I guess for everyone listening, one of the things, Marin and I decided to do before the start of this podcast was we wanted to really speak to people who've ever felt like their period is a struggle a burden or a mystery and tell them tell you that you're not alone. This is really a space for you to name those challenges that you've been through and hopefully you hear some of that reflected in this episode, but we also want to give you practical tools and strategies and cyclical wisdom that can help you to shift and move forward with things. So before this episode we sent out an anecdotal survey asking people to share their experiences of difficult periods and the responses were so so powerful will share these throughout the episode as they become important talking points for our conversation. At the same time we're here to really bust some big and harmful myths about menstrual cycles, society's shame and silence around periods has shaped how we feel inside and we're not separate from that. So if everything you've told been told about your period is a lie, then we're here to uncover the truth and that's a big part of our mission. Why don't we start by getting deeper into the survey and some of the anecdotal responses and just to say this is very much a way of hearing more of the personal stories that people have experienced rather than perhaps collecting huge amounts of data. Yeah, so I was quite moved to be honest by the quick response and I wanted to ask you how did you feel when you read the responses I felt a real mixture of things similar to what you said I felt really moved. It must see things like this that always reminds me how important this work is and I felt a mixture of grief and sadness. Because some of the responses felt really close to home, those things I could relate to so deeply and somewhere different to our experience, but I could see what the huge impact that these experiences have had on people's lives. And I also felt a huge sense of solidarity and optimism. I really felt that hopeful optimism and like I said, a great sense of purpose because I know that it doesn't have to be this way. So I think that's sort of stuck with me, but yeah, definitely initially it was I had to take my time reading the responses. I don't know if you were the same. Same, same, absolutely. It was it was, yeah, it was hard and not not just for not just because it's a reminder of how I lived with my period for 33 years, but also in the such a waste, isn't it? To like go through a lifetime feeling less than who you really are. And it's heartbreaking. Yeah. Yeah, I couldn't have some better. I feel like that's such a powerful way to describe it because if I think I think you so commonly hear, particularly from women, that and people who menstruate, but that thing of I'm not good enough. I feel I'm worthy. I feel hopeless and I think those feelings can be so intense, particularly around certain phases of the cycle, but that's what really came through in those responses was how, how much of an inconvenience or a weakness or a burden it sometimes feels like it is and that it makes you less capable. The man, I guess. Yes, I really resonated with people who talked about how the period is gross and how much they feel dirty. I used to feel like that. I remember every time I went to the toilet and I saw blood, the word hate came up so quickly, so intensely. It stayed with me even after my mindset has had changed because of How long I've spent feeling that way Now I catch myself and I said no, I don't hate it anymore a lot of this is the deconditioning Really unlearning that's it of What we've been taught from such a young age and those beliefs are so deeply entrenched and ingrained within us That what I often see through working with people through my menstrual cycle coaching is that they don't recognize That they have this internalized shame and hate towards their periods in their cycle because it's so normalized so it's like oh no I don't hate this part of myself, but it's painful and it's annoying but but everything there Everything they're doing the way they're living because that's the way we've been taught to live in this kind of busy hustle culture is perpetuating that you know, it's making it's making that shame and even more sort of intensified And yeah, I felt Similarly about reading some of the responses because I think I I also used to think it was really gross and disgusted and I used to be so Paranoid about leaking in public or leaking at school and anyone anyone being able to detect that I was on my period Even if like ex partners and like boyfriends said things to me about oh you You know, oh, it's is it that time of the month or are you like this like it would just I would hate it. I would it would almost make it even worse, you know to feel like that and I just tried to hide it so long and I showed you I think I sent you the other day there social media like messages old Facebook messages Where I I message people complaining about my periods for years and when I eventually got into this work a lot of people like Oh, that's that's so interesting because you had such awful periods for so long But I didn't realize how much that perception how strong that perception was from people outside of me That that's experiencing but it was obviously you know, I we tried to hide it We tried to suppress it, but eventually it's gonna come out in some way and it's As people said in the responses, I think we'll come to it probably a bit later, but someone said I've quit various jobs and it's damaged relationships That really speaks to I think the the huge impact it has I had a chat with my friend and we talked about how he always is to tell me You're always either on your period or just before it. You're just always in it. You're always suffering and When I told him about the work I've done with you and this podcast that we're now collaborating on he was absolutely moved and for someone who doesn't Understand What it really feels like but he's he was only a witness feel this way to me that speaks, you know volumes Yeah, definitely that's that's someone so close to you in your life that can that can really see Transformation of you, you know, you've gone from feeling one way to feeling a completely different way about About your periods and yeah, it's it's I was to think it's ironic that I got into this work because but then when it now Reflecting on it actually it makes a lot of sense with hindsight, but it's it was the thing that caused me the most I would say trauma for like the majority of my life It was the thing I really really hated and so the fact that I would then go and do it as What you know as my work as my profession as my job as Sorry, it feels surreal, but actually I think often the things that are most painful in life They often do become your purpose because Once you you know you go through something you go through a transformative sort of experience or you a thing shift in change You then want to share that with other people so it naturally becomes Yeah, which is quite kind of what this whole podcast is as well as yes exactly. I feel exactly the same as you so Here we are I want to talk about The language we use because that's something that's really important for me and the language that I used around my period was basically I called it the demon and that I'd to How I did not feel myself in the weeks leading up to my bleed and Also calling it period and not a bleed not mentioning blood at all But I felt like I was saying things and doing things beyond my control That kind of ties to well why we're calling this episode you're not crazy because There were times when I felt crazy Why did I say that thing that's so hurtful or why did I behave that way? I didn't actually mean it and the way we speak really affects our beliefs and In turn that creates the reality that we're living so if for You know two weeks of every month you talk about you being a demon or part of you being a demon then that's what you end up believing and Feeling that way these emotions were not mine that's absolutely related to the disconnect you mentioned before and Yeah, I'm just thinking of how we asked in the in the survey if People have like this in a way that they call the like a nickname or something that they call the period and there were quite a few of those town of the month is something that came up quite a lot and Anti-flow or on flow my favorite one. I think was the red guy. Yeah. Why about you? Yeah, I saw there was crimp crimson wave as well Yeah, I think time of the month is really good. That was yeah, that was the most common one and I I hear that a lot or I see I feel like I've always seen that in kind of pop culture so you know think things on social media people say time of the month and It's it's such a neutral almost like two polite afraid It doesn't to me. It's it's really interesting. So it just doesn't reflect it's the same with how we feel uncomfortable talking about like female anatomy and genitalia I think like that we don't want to name exactly what it is so it's like wrapping it up in like a nice ribbon and a bow and Put in a stick on it and saying oh it's time of the month and And I know miss I think that's even more confusing to people especially like you know young children and young girls who Who was when they get their first period that men are K and They're not being given the correct language to refer to it or told that it has to be called something different to what it actually is that like Psychologically, I think that's really damaging and that's doing something Absolutely very negative to all of us. I used to call my my my devil times I guess if it's similar to you like you said the demon now I love saying my bleed because I'm like it is a bleed That's physically what I'm doing. It's my bleed We've sort of picked some quotes from the survey Responses that we that we received and there was so many it was so hard to choose and I think we've we've picked out ones That felt like they reflected sentiments that were that was shared amongst many people or where they really felt quite Star can quite different in a contrast to to what people were saying and so one of them was my My period was so regular and painful as a teenager that I couldn't stand walk or sit and I have my period and I just think that a Species so many people's experience that you know, especially when you're in those early years of menstruate and and experience in you bleed for the first time and often it can be a regular but you're you're in school every You know, you're potentially in school every day You're having to sit exams if you're in a mixed school. You're around people who don't menstruate It's a really it can be one of the most painful and challenging times or lonely for anyone, but I think particularly Yeah, the young women and people in menstruate it's it's really challenging. Yeah, absolutely Just one here that I Recognize from one of my best friends experiences and it says my ovulation is my worst part I feel exhausted and it's more painful than my period and Awareness of this is very small Yeah, I think that one really stood out to me as well because I've worked with a few clients where ovulation has been the more Difficult challenging part of the cycle and it's actually in so many ways the biggest event But I I was talking about this actually recently on my Instagram that I feel like ovulation is often overlooked because We're not interested in having children or we don't want children It's like why pay attention to that part of the cycle It's and it's for so many people it's invisible. It's not like a bleed where we physically see See blood, but for some people you know, it's they they are actually feeling something I think it's got the name middle schmat, which is like the pain of that that time and You need to know what's going on at ovulation to understand the whole cycle or everything's into connected in into length So I wanted to emphasize that quote in particular so I'm glad you brought it up because this isn't just a podcast about periods It's about the whole Cycle so yes, it's really important to mention that one. I've got a quote here that says I absolutely hate having a period. I would do anything to make them stop. I don't understand others who are happy or even enjoy the process. Thankfully, I have stopped mine and I do feel a lot of judgment, perhaps my own beliefs there, but I do feel judged by the women when I say I have managed to stop mine. There was a time I wanted to have a hysterectomy because I could not handle the pain and the heavy feelings that came with my bleeds and I wholeheartedly resonate with this quote and I think I on the one hand, I really suffered, I really hated it, but on the other hand, I didn't want to take any contraceptive pills or any foreign devices in my body. I don't think if you asked me at the time, I would be able to tell you why, but there was just resistance there and I understand people who stopped their bleeds. I have a friend who did it in truth. I suspect that it helps with symptoms, but it does not help with the root cause of how they are experiencing their periods. I hope it's not coming out in a judgmental way because I don't mean it this way, but I wholeheartedly believe that there's another option that's more awesome and sees the whole of you and not just some part of you. What do you think, Rosanna? Yes, I'm just in awe of how you said that, how you phrased it because I feel that so deeply too. I'm not in anyone else's experience but my own, so I don't want to pass judgment on that. I could also relate. I have family members and people I know who've had hysterectomies for that very reason and I know how much they were suffering. I don't judge, but at the same time it is tinged with sadness because I know that there is this other option and I feel like people aren't being given the right information and awareness that that's available to them and then maybe they could make. They might still choose to go that route, but maybe they could make, you know, it might change people's decisions and I think, yeah, that's the issue is that a lot of this work doesn't always exist within mainstream healthcare and this awareness certainly doesn't for the most part. It resonated deeply in that I was like, I remember feeling like that and I wanted to stop it and I can see where that judgment comes from, but yeah, at the same time it's like when you said when you've experienced the other side of it, yeah, it's a difficult one to digest, I guess. Yeah, I think you hit something really important though because making a choice out of very limited information makes me wonder is that really your choice. I think that goes back to the last quote that we put here about a woman who feels frustrated that her daughter Anis goes through the same agony and the option from GP is going on the pill and it's disappointing that nothing's changed and I think that sums up really well why we're doing this podcast and why you're doing the work that you're doing. It's so generational isn't it? It's like this has been the case for such a long time and I feel like that pattern just has to stop of people, if women and people are cycles going to their GP and being told, oh, you're experiencing painful periods, you're experiencing really a lot of emotional distress or self harm or suicidal ideation, you just need to go on the pill and I had front, I don't know if you had this but I had friends growing up that were put on the pill for the most random things, it wasn't always birth control, they put on it for like skin, like that, you know, happening and things like that and I think it's just, it's like everyone's body is different and everyone's cycle is unique to them and how can any, I know there's different types of pill but how can this kind of one size fits all be prescribed, I also have real issue with it being prescribed to really young people, yeah, be prescribed in the context of someone's life, like the other other options not be checked, I think what I feel like this quote is sort of speaking to and what I feel where I feel frustrated at the narrative is that for so long that's been the only option. And it's almost like a one line answer of this is all you're going to get, we're not going to engage in any more testing or analysis or discussion or questions about all different aspects of your life to really find out what's going on, it's kind of like you're just sent away with that and that's what I think has to stop. I agree, yeah, here's your pill, bye. Were you ever on the pill? No, I wasn't on the pill, I was trying some kind of pill when I asked for help a few years ago and the idea was that this pill was either going to stop my period altogether or soften the symptoms or not do anything at all and in reality what happened because you have to take it for six months to see if it affects you because of the changes in your body and hormonal life cycle, etc. I was basically bleeding for six months. So yeah, that did not help and I think that's the point where I realized I need to find an alternative. Yeah, it's funny as well because I'm just thinking in terms of age groups and generation, like from my age group at school, it was very much like I would say the majority of people knew were on the pill for all of their teenage years. I was like a rare exception because I wasn't on it for various reasons which I probably talked about in another episode but now a lot of my friends or people I grew up with are all in their early 30s and their experience in some of them are trying to get pregnant but they've never had a natural cycle so most of their life so it's like their body is now going off the pill, they're trying to like rebalance and almost you know, re-learn or learn for the first time all this stuff, this cycle awareness and education about themselves and end up knowing more than probably what their GP knows because where is I think in the past it so I think there is a what I'm trying to say is I think there is a shift in people advocating more for themselves people with the internet with resources like people being more informed and aware but even with that there's still so so much confusion and such a lot of understanding. Yes and so for context I'm in my mid 40s and many of my friends have children and I remember them talking about how they needed to go off the pill and not recognizing their own body or their own like their own cycle like you say and it highlights for me how our bodies are being treated as basically a machine, a production line and our womb is only important when it comes to producing babies. It ties to what we talked about in the beginning of how our knowledge is fragmented and that's created in order to basically disassociate us from our own experiences and this goes to the last quote we have here in response to the question what do you wish more people understood about your experience of menstruation and someone replied that if you have a period you are a cyclical being which means you can't go full throttle all the time the shame you feel for needing rest is internalized capitalism and I would add patriarchy as well. Oh yeah even before capitalism yes do you want to go over some stats? First things first I love that quote so much and I think it really speaks to this podcast and what we're trying to do and the realizations maybe we've both experienced but yeah we asked some other questions just to get yet to get more stats on common symptoms and challenges that people have experienced during their cycle so 90% of well 90% of people who did the survey experienced exhaustive fatigue that was the highest thing and I actually picked that out because I thought that was really telling because it really speaks to just how many of us have been out from living out of sync with our bodies and specifically our menstrual cycles so it's interesting that that the highest statistic and then 85% of people had heavy bleeding 80% of people experienced depression or low mood 75% bloating or digestive issues and 75% mood swings or emotional intensity so I think I think really that captures like the range of symptoms that sort of fall under things like PMDD or potentially PMS as well but we often talk about when we've had conversations outside of the podcast that these terms these sort of diagnostic labels are failing new and and they are trying to capture a really broad range and spectrum of experiences that are all actually symptoms of the - Partry, okay. - Yeah. - Yeah, of that quote really of what we said before. - Yes. - Yeah, they're just presenting people differently. That's my theory anyway. - I agree with you. Do you want to talk about some key insights? - Yeah, so some of the things we noticed from the survey was that one of the most common things was that periods of widely experienced as a bird. So they're often seen as being painful, messy and disruptive to daily life. And people described having to miss school work holidays, other occasions, things like that. - Am I interject on that one? - Of course, yeah. - I still sometimes take a period of delaying pill if I'm going on holiday or travel. And I've been questioning this recently because I don't feel the same way I used to, but the fatigue is real. It's a full body thing and it is hard work for your body. So you need to rest. So there's reason why you're feeling fatigued. - I really really love that you said that. I know there's a really good video on YouTube that I'll link somewhere in the show notes. And it's called, I think it's called Lost Wisdom. It's this amazing woman in South America speaking about, she pretty much just explains menstrual cycle awareness, but she talks about that 80% 20% so how other phases of your cycle, you have this 80% energy and how it really drops down to 20% or less than that. I can't remember the exact way she splits it. And she's like, then you have to do everything at 20%. You kind of have no choice, but we're still trying to do everything at that 80, if not like 100%. So often because people are almost surprised by their period, even though it happens every month, no one is planning or facilitating or creating space for it. So we still have all these commitments that don't match our energy levels and support our cycle. So then it becomes like this real conflict that causes more pain. - Yes. - Another key insight was that the symptoms extend so far beyond cramps and bleed and which are so common. But people like we said, described a wide range of physical mental health things. So extreme fatigue, brain fog, depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, chronic migraines. Let's talk about how there's a clear cultural message that menstruation equals weakness. And I can attest to that because there was a time where I worked with a startup company that was classic tech bro kind of company. And in order to compensate for my what I thought was under par performance, I used to say, oh, I'm on my week week now. I'm not at my strongest. And using this language and believing this really affected my belief in myself and my abilities, capabilities skills, how I advocated for myself or didn't. So reading the survey that really resonated with me where people say that you feel less capable, you feel less attractive, less reliable. And there are some participants that are called partners of families treating their period like something gross, gross or dramatic or inconvenient. And yeah, it's just reinforcing or internalized shame and silence. It's such a natural part of us that being able to just cover it up to mask it, to get rid of it, to, you know, to make it small or make it as dissapear as much as possible because then you can function more like a man in a man's world. I definitely used to notice it as well with colleagues at work who were going through parrymanipals or menopause. And how especially female directors, they weren't taking this seriously because it was like, oh, they're going, you know, it wasn't openly discussed, but if they're going through this, so they can't be trusted, almost like they can't be trusted, they can't be taken. Yeah, being dismissed. Yeah. So to bring this episode to a bit of a close, we just wanted to really emphasize one of the myths that come up around periods in the menstrual cycle and challenge them. So the first one is the myth that it's just a bit of blood and the truth is that it affects your whole body and mind and it's not just your period, it's a whole process with different phases, including ovulation that makes up the menstrual cycle. Another myth is that pain is normal and the truth is that common does not mean normal and pain deserves care. Do you want to expand on that a little bit, Rosanna? Yeah. So the idea that just because we expect to feel pain because we've seen we've seen our mums and our aunties and people who've experienced like menstrual cycles before us tell us that your periods are going to be painful from a really young age or like you can expect to feel cramps and this isn't something to look forward to. We're being almost unconsciously initiated into the menstruating years of our lives believing this that pain is normal. So our tolerance to pain probably becomes exceptionally high compared to people who don't have menstrual cycles in some ways and it's so normalized that we'd almost be shocked if it wasn't there, but actually I see so many people come to me who don't think their pain is severe enough to qualify for doing this work in the first place for really looking into their menstrual cycle in more depth and actually it's like when I think any pain, any pain is worthy of care and attention and pain is something you need to meet and get curious about why it exists in the first place. Another myth is that you're just being hormonal or over dramatic and the truth is that hormones impact everything, they're messengers so they're part of the communication system within your body and they're really essential and important and it does so just because your hormones are having an impact on your life and how you feel and that doesn't make what you're experiencing any less valid so I think often this can be thrown around as something that's really dismissive and sort of reduces the legitimacy or house areas it's taken when people talk about their hormones. Yes she's just being hysterical. Exactly. Yeah and a final myth to end on is that you're less capable on your period and the truth is that you're not less capable and you're not broken, you're cyclical, you're a cyclical being and your cycle means you have natural limits at different times so an example of a natural limit is what we talked about before having lower energy and need more rest or perhaps less socialising at a certain time in the month but limits don't equal limitations and this is a reference from the book Wild Power by Alexandra Pope and Shani Hugo Willitzer who written all about menstrual cycle awareness so I definitely recommend checking it out but they talk about this difference between limits and limitations so just because we have natural limits because of menstrual cycle and the different phases and what's going on in our bodies doesn't mean limitations on who we can be as people and what we can go and do and what we can achieve and yeah who we get to be in the world so I think that's really important to emphasise stuff. So to close this episode you're not crazy, these stories have really shown the reality of living in a body that's cyclical in a world that's very linear a lot of the time and I just want to say a massive thank you to everyone who sent responses to our survey and has provided insights that have really shaped this conversation because it's enabled us to go deeper and to really reflect on our own experiences too and we're looking forward to the next episode where we will take all these experiences and in this episode particular we've really created the space to hear and feel that collective pain that anger and frustration but rather than just raising awareness about how much we've all suffered how can we flip the script and rewrite the narrative for ourselves so that your cycle becomes a source of power so our next episode will take you through the first steps of learning to interpret what your body has been trying to tell you all along. Yes thank you everyone who shared their experiences in the survey and I think I think we're going to keep the survey open because we want to continue listening and learning from other people's experiences what else we can do to help. Yes absolutely so thank you for listening everyone and we'll see you next time for episode two. Thanks for listening to Womely Being. If this sparked something for you we'd love to hear it via our Instagram @womely.being. Share your thoughts, questions or stories with us. or pass this episode along to someone who needs it. You can find out more about Morin's work at rosyfutures.com and on Instagram at rosy.futures. And you can find out more about Rosanna's work at rosannajones.com and on Instagram at RosannaJones. Until next time, have a good bleed.