You’re More Creative Than You Think: Awakening the Artist in the Church with Katlyn Bishop

Why is creativity so important? And this really is why God, like, one of the first times God lit a fire in me to push forward creativity in the church. I truly believe that my calling is to push forward creativity in the Catholic C Church, in the Christian space. And we should be the most creative beings in the entire universe in this whole world, beyond just letting secular culture define what creativity is. And we have access to the most creative being in the universe. Hey, everybody. It's Mike Cimele. And I just want to talk to you about the digital conference. It's calling all young adult ministry leaders. I want to give you a heads up and here's the deal. We have a free digital conference coming up Wednesday, January 21st, from 11 a.m. to about 1 p.m. on Zoom, Central Standard Time. We've been learning from a lot of trusted voices throughout the young and all ministry world, and you can too. So space is limited. Make sure you get signed up and registered today. And Jesus is our passion. Young adults are our burden. And we are thrilled to have you join us today. We have a very special creative individual. And if you want to partner with us this next generation to help unlock their creativity, multiply your impact, equip and mobilize young and all ministry leaders to reach more young adults as well as young adults themselves. Today we're leading into an amazing conversation with Caitlin Bishop. You're going to love this conversation. And we cannot wait to lead into the conversation with her and our audience today. Just hopefully get some creative juices going, some new thoughts for 2026 rolling out. Maybe you're part of a new ministry and you're learning how to brand. You're learning some marketing strategies. You're learning your colors, your templates, your fonts. Whatever that may be, we hope that you can help uncover and discover some of those tactics that we can set our ministries up for that are going to reach the generation that is currently looking for Christ at the end of the day. So Caitlin, welcome to the Youngouts Today podcast. Thank you so much. I'm stoked to be here and to chat with both of you guys. Definitely. Caitlin, what I want to know is to start with what are some of the favorite projects that you've worked on? We know of a few of them, but they could be totally-- there's so many things that your eyes and hands and mind has worked on that we might not even know about. But what have then maybe one or two or a few of your favorite projects? Yeah, I'll just spit ball a few out here because there's just been so many amazing projects that God has blessed me to be able to work on. But a few that stand out, one when I was living and working in Miami, Florida, I got to be a part of Art Basel. And Art Basel is a huge city wide, just creative-- it's almost nationwide. Honestly, people come from all over the country to see these different brands creatively express themselves. And what was super cool is that is normally a very cultural, fashion-driven, music-driven thing. The church I was actually a part of there, Vue Church, was able to be a part of it and they called it Vue Basel. And it blended faith, fashion, and culture. And they actually asked a Virgil Lo Blow to be a part of it. And it was just probably the coolest thing I ever got to be a part of to be in the room making those decisions. Our install was right next to the Louis Vuitton install. It was just like pinching myself. God, what are you doing here? And what was so cool is the building we were a part of was in the design district. And right next door was a chess board. And I walked out and I laughed because I was like, God plays chess while we're all playing checkers. And just how the stars aligned of why am I even in this room right now? I mean, it was just so cool because I've always had a love for fashion, always had a huge respect for Virgil Lo Blow. He was the creative director of Louis Vuitton at the time. So that was just by far a highlight because it really blended a lot of my passions. Oh my gosh, we love Pastor Rich and Don Cherey and Vue Church. We've been there many times. I remember I think it was like our first or second wedding anniversary we happened to be in Miami. And we went and it was like a Sunday night. First of all, it's a church of young adults. And I were waiting in the line to get into church and then Rich preached the same wedding or the same text, same message as what was right at our wedding. And so-- Oh, that's so cool. There's those God-wink moments. There's those moments where-- chess moments. Absolutely. And I know you've also-- can you talk for a second about your role in even-- we've had Zach Wendall on the show and the Bible study the brand Sunday. Yes, yes. So Zach is a good friend from Minnesota. And we were working-- co-working together one time. And he was sitting there at his computer stressed because he was trying to design the Bible study himself. And I was like, friend, let me help you. Let me do this for you. So he was like, OK, and he frantically gave it to me. And he's like, we need to send it to print in two weeks. So it was a crazy timeline. But it was honestly so much fun. Because it was probably one of the first projects that I actually worked on that was bringing the Bible to life and helping the Bible be communicated in a way where young adults and youth were actually going to be able to be excited about it. There was so much more color with it. It wasn't just a plain Bible study. It was a very interactive Bible study. So that was super, super fun. And then we proceeded to move forward. And I helped him create his entire brand of products for the brand Sunday. And so there was a lot of creative direction happening there. And so yeah, we worked together for probably two or three years, building out his brands. And he's awesome. I love everything he does. I love it. He took it one step deeper. Why do you think that that project resonated so much with you, specifically during that time? Yeah, I think, again, it was just a creative expression in a way that, well, I had been in the advertising agency space right when I got out of college. My radar was not to work at a church, was not to work in the Christian space, necessarily. I definitely felt called secular. And I felt like God threw me in there to kind of go learn from the best of the best. So that one day, I'd be able to bring that back into the church. And so I was very head down focused on working for these agencies and things like that. And that was the tipping point. That was the year in 2019 when I first went full-time freelance. And I'm telling you guys, the minute I went full-time freelance, God, cut off all of my agency connections. And completely, all of my clients became Christian-based clients. And so that was, again, one of the first time where I wasn't working on, you know, target or a cable company or, you know, a restaurant, it was, wow, I'm working on the Bible. And this is so cool. And I think what's really cool about creating in the Christian space is that you get to be as absolutely creative as you want to be. And there is no limits. Usually when you're working with a very specific brand, you know, target, for example, there's only so many things you can do because it has to say so locked into their brand and their mission and their vision. So working with Zach, I mean, he just was like, create the coolest dopest thing that you can make and we'll go from there. So it was honestly such a huge expression for me, especially as a young creative. You know, that project is now available in target, which is kind of a fun thing. And I remember that. Zach and I, we wrote our first books at the exact same time. I still remember in Eden Prairie, I think it was Smith or a coffee shop. We met up and just encouraged each other as authors. And, you know, one of the things that I've watched, I've seen, forget if it was starting five or one of the NBA documentaries, but I think it was Jason Tatum's home and his family. They have it on their fireplace, on their mantle. And so that's just had an amazing wide reach. You share why it resonated with you so much. If you had to guess why did the creativity, the branding, and just the artistic design, why does that matter to the next generation so much? And why did it specifically, in your perspective, I mean, of course there's the Lord and the role of the Holy Spirit, connecting the dots, like you said, playing chess, while we play checkers. But any other thoughts on why design might matter to the next generation of young adults? Yeah, and I think the first initial answer is, it can sound kind of shallow at first, because we are the Instagram generation. I mean, everyone is looking to be an influencer. Everyone is looking to catch a vibe and have an Instagramable moment. But even more than that, I do think our generation deeply cares about aesthetics and their environment. And I think people are starting to realize that they're deeply affected by their environment. And so I think that right there, even just states that people want things that are going to help them feel more alive and be more creative. So I do believe that flipping through a book that's more interactive versus something that just looks like a textbook is, again, just going to make something so much more digestible and feel easier. And our generation is now used to very clickbait stuff. And so having something in a way that's phrased in smaller sentences and not such. huge dense text paragraphs, you know? I think it's a little intimidating for some people. So whatever you can do to peel back the curtain to make it easier to digest, I think is gonna be a huge win, especially for young adults. - I love it. We obviously have some of those projects in our house that even that you've had your hands in. And for me, it makes it more fun to have something that has color. - Oh, yeah. - That makes it easier to read, kind of like bullet points, headlines, versus like you said, like this deep dive into this theological behind. Like, is that important? Absolutely. But like when you have the sky's the limit, when it comes to God created the heavens in the earth, He created us, He created everything. So I believe that we are designed to create. - For sure. - We have a five year old, and when she was literally 16 months, every night before bedtime, she would want a color for like two hours. So for a 16 month year old, or 16 months to be sitting there on the rug, coloring for two full hours, just the intense brain power that it took for her. And she's still, she's a creative. Like I don't realize just how I was like, baby, we're gonna wake up one morning and she's gonna have a new door attached to the bathroom. She's gonna have this other one blocked off, and she's gonna make this her ensuite. Like I just feel like she's that kind type of girl. So when it comes to your story, when did you first discover your gifts of art or fashion or creativity? Like when did you start seeing that that was a part of who you were or how God created you and who was along in the journey to help feed that and fuel those passions along the way? - For sure. I think that's such a great question. And I think every creative goes through that journey of when they discover their gifts. And any person really goes through that discovery. And the answer to me is really so simple and so complex at the same time, but I gave my life to the Lord when I was 16. And I at that time kind of lived in the art room in school. I was doing ceramics, I was painting, I was doing all sorts of creative stuff. But again, I struggled with imposter syndrome and didn't believe, I didn't believe that I was creative. I believed that I wanted to be creative. I didn't believe that I actually was. I think every creative goes through that season. - Wow. And I went through art school because I was like, great, I want to do something practical, I want to go for graphic design. And I got a job at a great place, but again, I'm still sitting there in this big agency, Stariide. I'm a junior designer looking at these creative directors and I'm like, I do not deserve it in the room. Like I have no idea why I'm here. And so until I was honestly 27 years old, I did not believe that I was creative. And again, when I went full-time freelance, I started, part of the reason I did is I started asking myself, I started asking the Lord like what the gifts are that he gave me and I started asking myself what I'm truly passionate about. And I actually did this really cool thing called the Passion Test. I think I found it, I don't even remember where I found it, but the Passion Test and you ask yourself, what were you the most passionate about when you were seven years old? - Because when you were seven, I mean, you're even talking about with your daughter that there was such this innocence to your play and you're not tainted by the world or what the world thinks. And when I was probably 16 or 17, I was reading a Vogue magazine or why don't you remember what Passion Magazine it was and my sister leans over my shoulder and she goes, that's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. And I'm sitting there like, I think it's the coolest thing. - It's awesome. (laughing) - But okay, that's not cool and that's not okay to like that. And so when I was seven years old, my first computer game was Barbie Fashion Designer. - Oh my gosh. - I love it. - I love it. - So I realized that 27 years old, like I love fashion and I've been ignoring it this whole time, it's been blaring me in the face. And the other part of the Passion Test is, look at the last 10 pins, either on Pinterest or on Instagram, so you can do those little saves. What are the last 10 things that you saved on Instagram or Pinterest? And when I realized that it had nothing to do with my career and like UX design, like I was even dabbling in some nerdy web design, I realized it was all like editorial fashion. Like I was stalking every fashion week, but it was like blaring me in the face and I think everyone else could see it except for me. Because again, I just didn't feel like I deserved it or it was all a posture syndrome. So I believe at 27 years old, I really was beginning to see my identity in Christ. And that's the simplicity of it, is when you learn your identity in Christ, when you come to the Lord and he gives you the desires of your heart and you learn and are aware of what those desires are and you learn what you're called to do, that changes the entire trajectory of your life. And though it made absolutely no sense that I left a really well-paying web design job and I was 27 years old to leave that and jump off a cliff literally into an unknown freelance world where I had one client and I had maybe one month covered. It was a complete trust fall. And but I knew God was telling me and asking me to do it. So I trusted him and I'm so glad that I did because being able to do that and again, express and explore the things that I believe God wanted me to create was again such a game changer. And now being seven years into that, just seeing where he's taken me and seeing where he's allowed me to fly has been like, I couldn't have done that on my own. So, so good. Caitlin, I have a follow-up question. What do you think having a trusting adult speaking into that process could or would have done to not have you have maybe prolonged or pushed back or maybe I don't wanna say suppressed 'cause that might be a little intense, but maybe ignored the signs that were coming and that disbelief that you had about yourself. Like what advice would you have for that person? Or maybe the parent who knows, like I know I have a creative and when she's not creative in the morning before she gets dropped off at child care, there's something in her that she gets angsty. And I was like, okay, this girl has not had her outlet of creativity yet. Like what would you say to a parent with a five year old or that something that you maybe had or wish you would have had earlier on in your journey of discovery? - For sure. I think there's nothing powerful than exhortation. I think people, you can see things on other people all day. And I think we even see, like there's this guy at church recently where I just saw this insane talent to play piano. And I just like have this urge inside of me to go tell him. And by us not telling them because we think it's obvious we think they already know. We're robbing them of knowing the weight of the calling that they carry in the weight of like you are so gifted in that. And I think a lot of times people think, well, I'm passionate about that, but like that's not for me. And I would say literally because you are passionate about it, God gives us, God literally implants inside of us the desires of our heart. He gives them to us through his Holy Spirit. So when you have a desire stirring inside of you and you can't sleep at night because you keep thinking about the children being sex traffic in Greece, like that's a calling on your life because I'm not going to bed thinking about that. So I think for the parent that has a young child and they're starting to see those things already, I think just speaking that and declaring that over them and pointing it out to them and helping them see it for themselves and affirming that is huge. I recently had a mentor literally a couple of weeks ago and she's like, you know that you're insanely prophetic and I was like, I'm like, she's like, you've never had anybody like affirm this gift of yours and I'm like, not really. I mean, like I guess maybe like I can kind of see and she just started a friend, she's been for the last few weeks continuing to affirm and I'm starting to believe it. Because again, someone tells you something and you're like, well, I'm not prophetic or I'm not that. I'm not creative. I mean, maybe you think so, but I don't know. So I think that affirming it and continuing to affirm it is so crucial and so important, especially for a young child. - The little center life. - No kidding. And I think the listener, it might be like you said, Caitlin, the young adult, that whether it's a musical, ability or a giftine, I'm awestruck right now, looking at the amount of fatherlessness that's pervasive in our culture that so many people, I kind of view as a young adult, pastor part of my role is to be a spiritual parent or older brother or a voice of encouragement. - Yes. - Because that, especially male affirmation, is largely non-existent. I watched a one hour documentary put out by Bono and he talks for an hour about forgiving his dad. I'm nine hours into an audiobook by Scott Galloway, notes on being a man and he's an atheist, but the whole book he's talking about how he grew up without his dad. And I'm just amazed at the power of our words, like you said, and when we look at our heavenly father, how he spoke things into existence, that's really what prophecy is, his partner with the Holy Spirit to call out greatness, to call out giftines, to call out confidence. And you said a second ago, the idea of kind of impostor syndrome, my dad is wildly talented in the state of Minnesota. Many have called him like the most talented stone-setter or diamond-setter. He's a jeweler by trade and largely retired at the time, but I think of like Mike as wedding ring. He designed it, very creative. So I remember taking your child to work day and watching my dad carefully take these maybe Vikings players, stones and set them and work out. And so for me, I looked at that's what it means to be creative. And that's not necessarily my passion or giftine. But it's taken me, I'm 34 at the moment and looking at while writing is creative podcasting, speaking. So there's a whole different creativity. It's almost like the facets of a diamond. Actually, there's different vantage points, viewpoints, just different ways that light hits it. And we're all unique. Just like a diamond or a fingerprint or a snowflake. God has wired us so that nobody has the same thumbprint or fingerprint in that's his spiritual DNA. And you know, why do you think that young adult, one of the things Caitlin, we ask every guest on this podcast, why do you think young adult ministry is so vital and important in today's day and age? Well, I think when you're a young adult, you're really vulnerable to what you believe and what you're listening to. I think all young adults and youth are searching for something. It's so true. And I really think about the movie Jesus Revolution and how, you know, at the beginning, the dad, the pastor was so turned off to, you know, these hippies. And then I think I think it was the daughter that said, well, dad, don't you see that they're just searching for something and they're finding it through being a hippie, through drugs, through music festivals, through other things. But like they could be finding it at church if you were open. Yes. That's what I'm talking about. The favorite parts of the entire movie. I'll say. Yes. The turning. It's so good. Absolutely. And being open to that. And so, yeah, I think again, it's such a vulnerable state. And I mean, when I gave my life to the Lord when I was 16, I was so ripe for the harvest. Like I needed a youth ministry to come and find me and save me because I didn't know what was up from down. I grew up in a home that I love my parents very much, but they got divorced when I was two years old and you're talking about fatherlessness. And so there was just an absence there of my identity being spoken over me. And there were a lot of negative words in my own home. And so I didn't grow up knowing who I was at all and myself worth was the size of a P. And so I didn't feel like I was worthy of love. I didn't feel like I was worthy of anything. And so, you know, when I first, you know, listened to my youth pastor Andy Cass in Rochester, Minnesota. And he did straight up set, you know, he's preaching a sermon and he said, sure, I'm going to share the gospel right now. But he literally had a, he had an Eric Samuel Tim painting on the stage. So he used art and creativity to literally display an over one person. I think it had a circle over their heart. Over one person had a triangle and over one person had a square. And he said, there's this God shaped hole inside of all of us. And we're trying to fill it with all these things. But it's not working because that hole was only meant for Jesus. The only thing that can fill it is Jesus. And I think as a young adult, that's all we're just trying to do is we're like, what fits in here? And we can't blame people for finding certain remedies and it working for a little bit. I mean, that's what sin does. That's deception. Is it, it fools us into thinking that it's going to fill the hole. And maybe it might for a second. But then you kind of realize that there's this emptiness inside of you. So I think if we can literally just share that message with our generation and not be afraid to get in the ring and share it in a way that is going to actually resonate with our generation rather than saying, hey, you need to come to church. You need to come to us. It's like, well, no, we're actually going to bring the church to you and we're going to find you and we're going to go into those spaces. Just like in the Jesus' Revolution movie, they went out into those spaces. And so, yeah, I just believe that it's so important for evangelism specifically in young adult and youth ministry because we're just so vulnerable. We don't know up from down yet. Our brains aren't even developed. So people are just searching. No kidding. Caitlin, one of the things that you just said a second ago is sharing the gospel in a language that a generation can understand. This literally, in an essence where I was hoping we could go with this conversation. I'm learning right now on the eve of 2026 as we record this. The future is here. And there's a way to utilize social media, communication, podcasts. When we started this show, it was 2019. It was only audio. The pandemic happened and YouTube really became a thing and overnight, adding video double the audience. Now, 2025, 2026, it's not just about the audio, it's about the video, and then it's about your carousel posts or content on Instagram. And then it's about shorter form clips. We had on this show, we'll link to it. A few episodes back was Ron Starling, who was Mike Todd's online pastor back in the day. And he was teaching us and the listeners about the importance of hooks that if you don't capture people's hooks in your sermon that's long form or a short form hook, he was really teaching and even linked in that episode a thousand hooks to think about for free. He gave some examples. But if you were to share how you think from your vantage point, your perspective, a pastor, a thought leader, a podcaster like us, a young adult ministry leader, how could they package the gospel through Instagram, through video clips, through in person stuff? Like you mentioned, Eric Samueltin, one of our friends, Andy Cass, the creative lens in bringing the gospel to life. What are some of your thoughts that come to mind with that? Well, first I want to share a story of just kind of like that displays the importance of this because I do think that, you know, making that pivot right now in our generation it gets a bad rap and people complain about it and they say, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to drink the cool aid. I'm not trying to, even this amazing pastor, I won't share where it was, but amazing, amazing, well known pastor. He's like, this isn't about me. And I'm like, because we were branding him. We were branding his identity and his ministry and I had to shift the language even in the call with him. Like, this is your ministry and this is going to allow you and enable you to reach so many more young adults, which is what you are passionate about. And I saw, even just in the shift of that language, his demeanor completely change because it went from being guarded. This is stupid. Why are we branding me to, oh wow, I really see an opportunity here and like we can seize the day and see, seize the moment. And by realizing that it's not about you, you get outside yourself and say, okay, I guess I can blast my stuff on social media if it means that it can disrupt someone's scroll. I mean, I've literally been scrolling before and someone linked a worship song and I clicked on it and jumped to Spotify and started worshiping at midnight because they literally broke the scroll for me. And so there's things like that that our content can do to literally break someone's toxic cycle of a scroll and you can come in and then share and be the light of Jesus. But the story I wanted to share is, and I'll keep all this nameless because I do deeply respect these people. But so I moved to Miami in 2020 and there's this huge event that I go to every year here in Minnesota and I had such fomo that I could not attend the event. And I was like, all my friends are there. There's amazing speakers this year. I am like dying that I can't be in the room and I'm seeing tiny glimpses on like my friends as stories but like very small snippets. And I go to the events profile page and there is absolutely nothing to be found. I can't buy a ticket to live stream. I can't. I could see through glimpses on my friends profiles that they had this insane stage design that I was like, that's dope. They spent a lot of money on that. They had amazing creative team. They had this classic opener. All these things. This is huge event. And I couldn't see any of it. And so you can spend all this money and all these resources on reaching the 4,000 people in the room. But you can also unleash the canon and reach 100,000 people out there because you're not afraid to hire the right people or to figure out, okay, how do we live stream this on YouTube app? It definitely takes a shift in mindset to know how to do it and we got to hire the right people. And so there's definitely an investment there. But you just spend 100,000, I'm guessing. I don't know. You just spend $100,000 on this event. That's going to live and die in three days. You could have made it last. and live, and I could have watched it afterwards. I could have rewatched it. I could still be watching it now. But so that's the limitation of the small thinking of the past, and that is like the canon that can be unleashed when you think future facing and where our generation is going. And now even more so with AI, that could be another thing that people are rolling their eyes at, oh, AI, I don't use chat GPT. I had someone give me shade one time. I use chat GPT every single day. And there's people out there that say, if you're not using AI, you are going to fall behind. But what it unlocks and unleashes is insane. And there's excitement around that. And I think even that perspective of excitement and inspiration, and wow, this, like what this could do is so much better than looking at it with a daunting, oh my gosh, that means I got to do more. That makes it stressful. I think that's the enemy right there, just like putting a cap on what you can do in your ministry is like he's going to bog you down with those like stress-filled thoughts. But I think if you actually bring it to God, he's going to help you see it the way it could be seen and help you unleash it. I love it. I remember 17 years ago. I was probably 17, 16, 17 years old. I remember running at the gym and working out. And I had an iPhone early edition at the time and I listened to podcasts and there was very few at the time. But one of my favorite Bible teachers to this day, I discovered at probably age 16, 17 and I had never heard the Bible taught in this type of way. It was so practical. Kielin, it helped me come alive spiritually. I was growing like a weed, like a healthy kind. There was roots beneath the surface. Every week I was like trying to apply what this podcast, what this pastor, it was a local church that was they put their audio messages on a podcast. And I'd probably listened to that. I mean, I still do to this day. One of the things that I notice, one of the best Bible teachers I've ever heard. And they have the best cameras that money can buy. And they, I mean, you can even in certain cities see this message on TV, on the weekends. But one of the things I noticed is their sermon clips aren't quite hitting. Like I think the reach was way bigger. Like 10 years ago, 15 years ago, we were talking about this kind of drive yesterday. And I was just realizing like there's a way, Kielin, that I think the gospel was taught or there was a way to communicate to a previous generation, even my generation 15 years ago. And then there's a way to connect and package and communicate and reshare the message that resonates with Gen Z and Gen Alpha. Do you agree? Is that what you're saying? I mean, 100%. If you aren't, I mean, this is, I would even say this if I were working in a secular career. If you're not molding and adapting and shifting and having that open mindset, like your ministry is going to die with the people that are going to die with it. And I heard someone say once, how did they phrase it? If you don't have Gen Zs in your church or Alpha Gen in your church right now, your church is literally, your ministry is literally going to die. Because eventually you guys are going to get older and the new generation is going to come in. And if they're not in your church right now, they will be eventually. So you're going to need to learn how to speak to them or they're just not going to come. And so I do definitely think that there is a deep importance for us to, I mean, yeah, I'm a millennial. And there's certain things where I'm like, oh, that's so Gen Z, like I don't want to deal with that or I don't want to have to do it. But it's like, if we want to speak to them and we want to earn their trust and we want to help develop them, that's huge. I mean, you said it earlier, Mike, I was understanding your child. I mean, you can't nurture something that you don't understand and that you're not seeking to understand and that you're not affirming. And so I think you're going to miss understanding them. By missing understanding them, you're not going to be able to communicate to them. Yeah, I would love for you to lean into this. And maybe this is my own observation. But what I've realized here in the Midwest that it's not even like churches, but organizations are really good at letting you know the events that you missed or they're currently happening. But the promotional and the marketing upfront is not there 'cause I'm like, if I would have known about that, I would have been there. If I could have gotten my ticket or gotten my livestream, I would be here. And I would say for the person who's in, specifically the church setting, how do we become creative in our approach to market, to brand, to get people in and through the doors? And it's not a bait and switch by any means. But how do we set a form of creative culture that helps hit the five senses? So I always think about what I'm having a Bible study in my home. Okay, what are the young women? What are they hearing the moment they walk in the door? Is there worship music? Are they hearing laughter? Are they hearing negativity? Are they, is there no sound? 'Cause everybody's in an awkward silence. Like what are they hearing the moment they walk in? To what are they seeing? Are they seeing community active? Is my house a mess? Or is it picked up and I've, and I've ushered in the Holy Spirit? What are they smelling? What am I serving? Is my candle lit? Do I have the cookies out of the oven? What are they tasting? 'Cause they're tasting those cookies yet. And what are they feeling? Like did they get a handshake, a hug, a side hug, a high five, whatever it is, the moment they walk in the door or by the time they walk out? Like how do we as pastors, creatives, set a form of culture where we are hitting a five senses while then experiencing something from the Lord in the process? Like do you have any insight on that? - Now that's super good and something I always talk to my clients about 'cause I do a lot of branding for churches. Is I tell them that your branding is your language and your voice that is an extension of you as a pastor and you as a church. So it's one thing and I think pastors really maybe lean into speaking things on stage but you're missing the people if they're distracted, if they were in the bathroom, if they hadn't shown up yet, if they're helping their kid, like there's just so many things. And to me, from a marketing perspective, a good runway for something, again, it depends on how big the event is but let's say it's just like child dedications or something like that. And I'm using churches as a lot of examples. - Let's go. - But I'd say a month runway is a really good like rule of thumb to announce something a month, a month in advance and then to repeat it, repeat it, repeat it and repeat it again. And the same goes with branding, the same goes with your mission statement, the same goes with your growth track or the information, it's like it might feel repetitive to you because you're in the staff meetings and you've heard it 500 times and but it is so not communicated as much to the congregation and it needs to be more. And I see that gap and that miss so many times. And I think, and I don't know if pastors are afraid to repeat things and repeat content, but you need to repeat things five times before someone is gonna like actually register it. And that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that. If you really want people to know about this and then it's also different modalities, right? So you spoke it on stage. Well, did you have a graphic behind you where they could take a picture of? Did you put an Instagram post up? Was it on your website? Did you put a story up about it and say, hey, here's the link to sign up? Are you putting it in their faces? Did you put a sign at the Connect Corner that says sign up for baptisms here? So there's different modalities and the amount that you're communicating. So again, I think between events and like brand language, it's like you have to repeat it so many times. I mean, we're a church plant of seven months old right now and do people know our mission statement? I would really hope so if they don't, you know? So I think even things like that, like again, you've been maybe attending your church since the beginning, but the person that just walked through the door for the very first time has no idea. So they need to know what you stand for. They need to know what you're about. So again, I don't think we should be afraid to repeat ourselves because that's what it takes for information to really digest. - Okay, this is unlocking something in me. I think that it will for the listener as well. You're speaking the language of the future. You're speaking the language of the next generation. You're talking in possibilities. And that's back to the point about prophetic and prophecy, you are calling things that could be or arguably should be. And I'd love for you to take a few minutes but talk about you took this step, was it seven years ago to do freelance stuff? Talk about what you're working on now and how people could connect with you, how people could collaborate with you, what maybe some of the services that you offer or what you're excited about that you are working on. - Yeah, I love it. So my husband and I last year got married and we merged our business. and he is a videographer, a photographer, an amazing storyteller, and then I also do graphic design, branding, creative direction, any sort of design work. So together we formed Monarch Collective and so we really helped push forward brands to be just incredible, just to help people communicate their missions and their visions a lot better through their branding. So that is our services and that's everything that we provide. Since we got married even a year ago, what God has really shown me is to multiply ourselves and that's actually why we call ourselves Monarch Collective. It's really a butterfly in your window and I won't go in the whole story but it was a very prophetic God showed me in 2019. He showed me a butterfly every single day for an entire year and I was like, what's up Lord? (laughing) And it was really God just showing how he was gonna multiply things in the creative space for us and that's really what we want is to multiply creativity not only in our creatives and our contractors and our employees but also in our clients and the brands and the businesses that we touch. So we really work with a lot of Christian entrepreneurs as well as churches and nonprofits and things like that. So we love doing any sort of brand work for them and so really the vision that we've had for this year is to expand and scale our team and so we have about nine contractors right now. So it's really again just expanded our ability to work on bigger projects, work on service more clients. Yeah, it's just been a really exciting creative journey and we love it. So I think you had asked how you find us. We have an Instagram called monarchco.studio and that's also our website www.monarchco.studio. It's amazing. Do you know about how monarch butterflies migrate to the South? Do you know about this? I just read about this. Okay, tell me more. I don't know if I know this one. So let's just say it's a word in Minnesota and let's say that monarch butterflies migrate to Mexico. Each generation of a monarch butterfly lasts like six weeks. So Gen One will go maybe Minnesota to Missouri and then they'll have a different larvae, Cuba, Chrysolas, Monarch, or even butterfly and then it'll go to the next leg of the journey six to eight weeks. So their generation might get almost all the way there. Every fourth generation is called a super generation and they last six to eight months. Okay, I received that. Anyway, this is also in a book called Gradually then Suddenly by Mark Batterson that I'm reading. Anyway, when you said the name of the word that you're doing, it fires me up, really love what you're working on and it's done so much for me today having this conversation with you. Are you cool if we put five minutes on the clock? We always do the rapid fire, five and five. It's five last questions in five minutes. Are you up for it? Let's go. Ooh, okay. If you could tell every pastor or young and not ministry leader, one thing about branding, heart, marketing, something that's on your heart within the marketing realm to reach next generation, what piece of advice would you have for them today? Don't be afraid to invest in your marketing budget. It will multiply as we were talking about all of the things that you were doing. It will, I mean, it will just have a crazy cause and effect. Like the ROI on working on your branding and your marketing and helping end your website. Oh my gosh, please work on your website. (laughing) Those links work. 1985. (laughing) Seriously, okay, that's amazing. If you could go back and talk to your 22 year old self and share one piece of wisdom, encouragement or advice, what do you wish you would have known? - It's funny, I actually say this to a lot of people and this has become sort of like a tagline, but I always say you're more creative than you think you are. And to just speak to my 22 year old self who was in that agency and just felt like a small, person in comparison to what I was around. Like you are so much more creative than you think you are. And I actually loved what you shared earlier about just the uniqueness of every individual person you explained it through the diamond. And I had someone look at me once and they were like, do you actually believe that everyone is creative? Like you actually believe, like she was questioning and like you believe that and I was like, absolutely everyone is creative. Like you, the way that you think is so unique and different to me to the next person, to the next person. So that's what I would say to any 22 year old is you are so much more creative and brilliant than you think you are. - That's awesome, okay, question number three. If you could describe yourself in three words, what would those three words be? - It is not to be a sentence, it can make three, three different words. - Expressive, passionate, go getter. - I love it, it's so good. Amazing, you've got that creativity matched with productivity. That's an inspiration. What about you could become the host of the young adults today podcasts and ask Mike, can I name anything? Nothing's off limits, you could ask us one question of what would you want to find out? - What do you feel like is so important about creativity in this generation? - For me, I think the biggest thing is creating space for young people to discover who they are in and through Christ. And that could be serving, that could be discovering your spiritual gifts, that could be giving them an opportunity to serve and fail where it's a laboratory and say, hey, it's okay, we're gonna try something. 'Cause I think every young adult needs somebody to believe in them more than they believe in themselves. And to know that everybody is so uniquely created, they all have something to offer. And I would hate for them to be a part of the body and not be functioning in the body. Like, why do we have our wisdom teeth? Some people don't even know that. Why do we have our gall bladder? It can be removed if we can still function. The thyroid, like you could remove the thyroid, but the thyroid is a powerhouse for your appetite, for your body temperature, for all these different things, hormones. So I just look at, I don't want young adults to choose to fail or come up short when it comes to their creativity to know that they all have something to offer to help the body function to the fullest that God has initially designed. And to know that even if they don't know what that function is or where there's supposed to be yet, our house, our ministry that God's put before us, they can discover that and they can fail and it can become a laboratory or can become a launching pad for them to uncover and discover who they are in Christ and in the body at the same time. So that's what my mouth was. It was the years where my mind goes. All conversation, Caitlin, is I think we're better together that all of us is smarter than one of us. Pentecostal leadership is not Moses going up on the Mount side and I and coming back down saying, the say at the Lord, Pentecostal leadership is the belief that the Holy Spirit is in the room and can utilize any and every and so through the body. So less of a priesleity and more of a priesthood of the believers. And so for me, writing might be home based with creativity about three months ago, a friend from Arizona, he said, hey, can I cook up some stuff with your blogs? I'll just repurpose them. Caitlin, 1.7 million people have viewed when he started just in the last 30 days. He started taking my blogs, making them into carousel posts. Not that many people were reading them, but he started packaging them in a way for the next generation. So this is why we're better together that one person might scatter the seed, one person might water it and one person might write it, the other person might illustrate it. And I think that's the body of Christ. And also the wisdom, the creativity that you have exuded, the joy of the Lord, the kiftings that you have the prophecy. I hope young adults today gets to collab with Monarch Collective, you Tyler someday soon. - I love that. That would be amazing. I would love that. Why is it look at, I don't get an off-scripture, but I think creativity is not for us to hoard. It's for others to enjoy. And I think when we can start seeing that and calling out greatness in each other versus like being jealous of one another, I just think that unleashes something supernaturally where it's like, yes, we will go further. We will reach more people. We will draw more people in all in the name of Jesus. So I just, now, - Random thought that was in my head, I think I had to share. So, yeah. One more thing we have for question number five, Caitlin, if you could leave the listener with one piece of encouragement today, what would you want to leave them with? - Yeah, so actually one of the verses that I didn't get to share yet is, it's in chronicles. And I remember I was reading about Solomon was building the Temple of the Lord for the first time. And I feel like this just kind of summarizes like why is creativity so important? And then this really is why God, like one of the first times God lit a fire in me to push forward creativity in the church. I truly believe that my calling is to push forward creativity in the capital C church, in the Christian space. And there, and we should be the most creative beings in the entire universe in the entire world beyond just letting secular culture define what creativity is. and we have access to the most creative. of being in the universe. So the verse in Chronicles is I started reading it and there's chapters on chapters of it lavishly displaying all of the materials that God instructed Solomon to use as he built the temple. It was gold, it was linen, it was rubies, it was sasphires, it was brass, it was bronze, it was just beautiful textiles. I mean the most glorious and glamorous stuff that you could possibly use to house the ark of the covenant, the presence of the Lord, and for people to have their services and for people to come and see the awe and the beauty and the glory of the Lord. And I don't know when we lost that. When we decided, oh our church can be a box of gray walls and it's fun. You know, I just I don't think that that that intentionality is being taken to this is a temple of the Holy Spirit. This is the house of the Lord. And when you step foot in here, this is holy ground and I'm going to treat it as such. And so I it honestly blows my mind to see where we have come that we just do not we no longer care what our temple looks like. And that goes from us, but that also goes to the church that also goes to our buildings that that goes to so many things. So I hope to leave that encouragement with you today that the Lord does deeply care. And he has enough resources beyond the amount of resources. I think we almost come from this mindset and ministry of depravity. And oh, I got to, I got to, you know, be as tight and stingy as possible because I want everything to go whatever, whatever you're passionate about. I feel like distributing those finances and those resources. That's a really hard decision for a pastor to make. I totally do not envy that decision. But I do think we've just completely just skimped out on the creative aspect of our church and allowing people to express things and and you're right. It helps people be innovative. It helps. I mean, child development to have creativity around them and play and fun. And you said it earlier, like the whole point is fun and to have life and have it abundantly and to enjoy our lives. So I don't believe the church should be cold and boring and stale and our books, you know, the Bible studies shouldn't be boring. I think they should be fun and lively and interactive and so you can take all that where you will. But that's kind of my last little piece of the question. I have one more question. I'm just curious. What motivates you more? A blank canvas or an end product before you? Not even like work like personal like your own style. Like I love this blank canvas because the sky's the limit or you can sit back and like, wow, look what God like allowed me to create. Like what is more satisfying? Both of those are so satisfying. I'm an achiever and so sitting back and be like, yeah, but I also will say so we bought this house last year and we bought it for the potential that it has. Like this house is a style right there. What could be not what it is, but my mind knows what it's going to go. I know and I'm telling you before we bought the house because there's the week between you're like you put your offer in and like it's not accepted yet and you're like making these decisions and I'm like, babe, I have to make a mood board for every room in this house because I have to know that like what it can become and I have to know that like it can become what I want it to become. And so I literally did that. I think I have like 15 mood boards for every corner of this house. I literally have a mood board for this wall is going to be wallpaper in one day. And so I think that like gives me so much life to just go on a rabbit trail of inspiration of like oh my gosh, it could be this, but like what if we did this? What if we did this? So I think the creative process really does bring me life and I think yeah, it was in 2020 sometime around there where I decided every time I sit down at my computer, I want to approach every project and I want to think I want this to be the most creative thing I've ever made. And I want to express the most amount of creativity right now in this moment. Like I want to every time I'm like where can we go? What can we do? And I think that and I really got to experience that when I worked at Voo Church because every time that I would work on a new series design, I literally sat down with that mindset of what is the craziest, most amazing sermon series design I could ever possibly make because we're going there because I already know Richard DC are so down. So I think it's also sidebar really important to be under leadership who believes in creativity and stewards and allows creatives to be in their lane and to express and create because they can really thrive under that and it proved itself there that again, they made a switch in me every single time. I just I want this to be the moment where I hit new levels and of thinking and innovation. So good. This episode, this one's for the dreamer, this is for the visionary, this one's for the outside the box thinker and I heard Keith Kraft, I was at me event and he said this, I'll never be able to unhear what he said. He said, when you're born, they put you in a little box at the hospital and then they take you in a car and they put you in this little carrying box and then they put you at home in this little box called a crib. It's in a part of a bigger box and then you go to a school where there's a box that you sit in and then they're training you to sit in a box called a cubicle and when you die they put you in a box called a coffin. Wow. And Caitlin, what this episode I'm not exaggerating at all. What this episode is done for me is reminded me of some dreams and it's taken some members of what God's done or the seeds that he's planted and it's watered them. It's add a little gas to the fire and so thanks for being a person who speaks the language of the future and prophecy and prophetic and we just acknowledge you for that and I want to close by just encouraging the leader to seek God to get in the prayer closet. Maybe put together a mood board. What could your young adult ministry look like? What could the future look like? The possibilities are endless and we believe in you and the work that you're doing is so vital. It's vibrant. It's important but thanks for being a collaborator to this episode. Very fun. Of course. And you know what it is Josiah is when you see the future. I mean you just said you can't unsee it. When you see it when you see what God wants to create and what God wants to do through you there is this magnetic pull that this gravitational pull that pulls you into the future and you and you almost start running after it because you're like oh my gosh we have to go do that. That's amazing and I do think in my 20s there was this shift of every single morning I would wake up and I would go to my journal and you said it you have to bring the Lord into it. It can't just be your own manifestation of dreams that gets a really bad rap in the new age space but but manifestation was actually a meditation is a biblical word and so in every single morning what I would do is I would wake up and I'd journal and I'd start writing down three dreams that I have and I would bring them before the Lord and at first it was really hard. I was like I don't know if I can write that like I don't there's almost this like limiting belief in us that we're like okay delete serve that is you know and then you start writing it and you start asking God we think and you start seeing this like grin on Jesus' face. I love it like yeah like keep going girl and then the next day and it just starts flowing and when you do that like even challenge yourself for a week or a month to just write down your dreams they will get bigger and bigger and bigger and it will motivate you and excite you towards the future and it will give you a hope that you didn't have before because you were living under this limiting belief. Hey I hope that you're the listener and you receive that and take that challenge Caitlin you are such a blessing and I think you're to serve a minor as workers though you're working for the Lord and I just think that that is so fun to see you and to meet you and if you're not following them and the things that they're doing be sure to check them out on Instagram in our show notes today and thank you so much for spending time with us of course. As 2025 comes to a close Mike and I just want to say thank you thanks to every viewer, every listener, every guest and every prayer partner and ministry partner. This podcast and ministry are made possible through your generosity. Would you consider a year and gift to propel and accelerate the ministry forward of young adults today?