You Can’t Hack Your Way Out of Debt

[MUSIC] Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. [MUSIC] Normalist, broken, common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union you know this is the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality. Number one best selling author. And my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at AAA 825-5225. Robert is in Philadelphia. Hey Robert, how are you? Hey, come on in Dave. What's up? So I'm calling to get a little advice and your opinion on a financial. I would categorize as a disaster that I'm going through currently. Okay. So I am 34 years old. And I am married to my wife. We got married back in 2018. And it kind of goes back to the relationship with her family. So I met her, my in-laws, her parents back in 2010. They lived a very lavish lifestyle. And again, I wasn't, I never passed judgment, but you know, I was like, "Well, you know, my father-in-law does very well for himself." He was in the real estate business and had a, what I would say, a large portfolio of commercial real estate. Fast forward to two years ago, I discovered that my father-in-law back in 2015 or 2016 basically got himself in a giant mess with the IRS. He owes currently several hundred thousand dollars in taxes. And what he did was he put my wife, his daughter, and her two sisters, basically transferred all of the assets into their name. And my wife, you know, she did sign documents. It wasn't that her signature was forged or anything. But she kind of preemptively just said, "Hey, you know, it's my father." You know, and he asked me to sign some documents. So he was all floating assets into his kid's name to keep the IRS from taking the assets fraudulently? Yeah, okay. This is fraud, okay? So, so basically. How old was your wife at the time? She was, so this was 2021, so she was probably. No, no, no, no. You said 16 and 15 is when it happened. So that's when she signed the documents after you were married? Yeah. So, and I'll get to what I've discussed with attorneys, but fast forward, he had taken out a ten million dollar loan out under these girls' names, which they personally guaranteed. And the buildings that were in the LLC that he started, they have been taken, they are up for share of sale. Now, I have talked multiple attorneys. We filed tax to separate. Our house is in my name. I am financially, and I know we're married, but I'm financially fine. I have a lot of investments, I have a lot of retirement savings. I do have another piece of real estate that is all in my name only, no mortgage. And multiple attorneys have told me you have nothing to be worried about. I agree. We feel that your wife should just file chapter seven. And I guess this isn't more so a financial question, even though it is, but I kind of just wanted your input. How do I navigate this? I mean, me and my wife were okay. So, here's the thing. Because she felt deceived by her father, basically. Yeah, absolutely. She went in naively. To sign whatever he'd to sign. And he is arrogant enough. He thought this was all going to work out. He probably did not set out to harm his children, but he's just an idiot. All right, now, gosh. Okay, so the properties have all been foreclosed on. There's $10 million in loans. Then properties have not yet sold after foreclosure, correct? Correct. Okay. All right. So, the way the process will go down is the properties will be sold. Do you have any idea what this portfolio of properties might be worth? Approximately seven million. Okay. All right. So, let's pretend that they brought that. And then that would leave $3 million unpaid. Correct. Okay. And I'm guessing that the other siblings don't have any money and are chapter seven bankruptcy as well. That is correct. Okay. All right. And so, let just switch shoes a minute and put on the bankers' shoes. Okay, if I'm the banker sitting there, once I get into this, I can tell what happened. Okay. That the dad is a shyster and he dumped his kids on the railroad track and here comes the train. Okay. Okay. If I'm the banker, I'm looking at that. And I know that that actually happens. But do you care? And I don't care if your wife had $3 million, I might not care, but your wife has nothing. And so, I probably 98% chance if I'm the banker, I'm looking at this. I'm going, whatever I'm going to get out of this deal, I'm going to get out of these properties because these three kids are all filing BK. Okay. And what that means is, if that guy really believes that or that guy, the banker, then you might for X number of dollars buy out her position, release her. Okay. And so, what I would do is this, I would wait right now. Let's let the whole thing go down and don't bother. I wouldn't file. Filing today is premature. They may never come after her just because they know she's not a rich target. And if they did, you might all from something absurd, $20,000 and they might go away. Just something symbolic, you know, that's all it is because if they don't take that $20,000, they're going to get zero because your wife has no assets, all the assets are in your name. You're protected. Does she have any assets in her name? No. The bankruptcy attorney we sat down asked for assets and liability. And my wife is worth $29,000. Okay. There it is. Okay. So, and, you know, and in Philadelphia, I don't know what in Pennsylvania, I don't know what your personal exemption is, but she probably gets to keep most of that, if not all of that, in the personal exemptions and the bankruptcy. So, I'm not going to wait 10 years for this to unfold. But right now, I'm not going to let how pissed off I am about this and the emotions of this cause me to act prematurely. I'm just going to let it roll out, let the properties be sold. When they call, go, "Hey guys, we got this short conversation. We have already teed up the bankruptcy attorney. This kid's got nothing. She got screwed over by her dad. And you're getting nothing. Or I'll give you $20,000 to keep her from having a file bankruptcy. Which one you want to do? Man, I want to know what the dad's saying right now. Tough. Woo! So sorry, Robert. That's, that's, that's. Thanksgiving is going to be weird. If there is a Thanksgiving. Well, nothing to be thankful for. Wow. [Music] If you're shopping online and these days, everybody does. Data brokers are out there right now buying and selling your personal information. Your phone number, your home address, your email, without your knowledge or consent. And that puts you at risk for spam calls, scam texts, and fraud. Combined with AI, those scams are getting more sophisticated every day. And trying to get it under control yourself is basically impossible unless you have delete me. Delete me goes to hundreds of these creepy data broker sites, find your info and removes it, and you never have to lift a finger. Plus, they keep monitoring for it and removing it, if and when it pops up again. You don't have to remove your own info every time it pops up, like some unwinnable game of whack-a-mole. I personally use and love delete me, and my scammy texts and spammy calls have gone way down. Trust delete me to smack down data brokers and protect your personal info, so the game of whack-a-mole can finally stop. Go to joindeleteme.com/ramz, and you'll get 20% off an annual plan. That's Join J-O-I-N. "Delete me.com/ramzie" or click the link in the description. If you're working the baby steps, you're doing that because it's the fastest way to get out of debt and into wealth, and the fastest way to do all of this is using every dollar. It's more than a budging app, it's the whole Ramsey plan built right in. You track your progress, you get personalized Ramsey baby steps recommendations as you go, coaching for your situation as you go, and it'll help you free up more money and work the plan faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next ride step. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Mitchell, that ad copy reminds me, I was doing an interview with a major international network this morning, and the guy said, "So, do you think that some of your listeners think you're mean?" And I said, "Absolutely." "Oh, you had to read the comments," and you know that, and he goes, "You can be grumpy sometimes." Well, that's different than me, but yeah, but I said, "Well, he said, "Well, why would people keep listening and keep calling you if they think you're mean?" And I said, "Well, to start with, there are shows that are much meaner than we are, much more over the top, and they basically use their callers to create drama, and they get great ratings." So, those kinds of, that process works, which is not our process, our process is to help people, and it's telling you the truth. He said, "Well, when I listen to your show, I feel like I've got a to-do list of things that aren't done, and I don't get any credit for the things that are done." And I said, "Yeah," I mean, when I go home, Sharon Ramsey's got one of those. I got a to-do list of things to do, and I don't get any credit for the ones that are already done. Celebrate our listeners more, and that's what it is. But, you know, he was like, "You know, we are taking you from where you are to where you want to go." Yeah. And we love you, and we're going to tell you the truth, to get you from where you are, to where you want to go. There's every dollar ad just said, right? Yes. And so, you know, where you've been is just part of the story. Yes. But if you've completed Baby Step One, incredible, you guys, if you've done- Well, I'm not. Yeah, that's, you know, we tell people off and wait to go, and you did a great job, and- I know. And- Time to go on to the next thing. Yeah. There's always a next step. Yeah. Yeah. Where it feels like it's like a never-ending process is what you're saying. I just finished the laundry, and there'll be another load tomorrow. I got a, I got a key, yes. You know, a load tomorrow. I'm sorry. Welcome to grown-up life. Yeah. Jonathan is with us. Jonathan is in Sarasota, Florida. Hi, Jonathan. How are you? Doing okay, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, my question is, should I use my gambling winnings to help pay off my house, or do I let it ride because I'm doing pretty well with it? You're about to get grumpy, Dave. Jonathan. Are you? Are you, Jonathan? Is this like a joke? How many did you call up? I want to hear, John. Hold on. I want to hear. But what is this? What, what did you gamble? What do you have? Give us, I'm just curious. Give me the details. Not that's going to change my answer. I am a long-time listener, and I'm being a little bit silly here. Oh, good. I hope so. Good. I feel better already about you. I do want to hear the numbers. My, my crypto and my single stocks. I call that my beer and gambling money. That's your game. Okay. Yeah. I don't. Bear. I don't gamble. You are a long-time listener. I know. I like it. Okay. I know that. So how much beer and gambling money do you have, Jonathan? So about 25K, built from essentially paintings. I think I am overfunded in my emergency fund, or I may be, so my question is, do I convert this crypto and single stocks to my emergency fund and then essentially drain the 100K that I have in my high yield savings because I owe 100K on my house. Would that leave you with no emergency fund? No, it would leave me with about 25K from the crypto and single stock, if I got a rid of them. Oh, I see. Okay. So that would mean, okay, well, if your house was paid off, would you borrow on it to put money in your high yield savings and into crypto? Of course, yeah, of course not. Same thing, isn't it? Right. Yeah. If I pay the house off, you know, we could live on about 2K a month. So I think the 25K would be sufficient. Yeah. Did you agree with it? Did you get my analysis there? Did you understand what I was saying? That's why I laughed instead of, of course not. Yeah. One million percent. Yeah. You kind of already knew I was going to say that because you're listening. So there is a couple of what I think are big asterisk here. One is bigger than the other. One is, I mean, a 1970s home for my countertops and 70s things everywhere. They're cosmetic, so I can deal with it. However, the other wrinkle in this and this is why I'm hesitant to pay the house off is we have we have some upcoming medical stuff that we know is there's a 95% chance it's going to happen. You know, my wife, unfortunately, without getting too personal, has a disease that requires surgery every one to three years we've been together for 20 years. So we've been through 10 of them together and then you have health insurance. We do have health insurance. So you're out of pocket, you're out of pocket for the surgery is going to be how much because the insurance is going to cover most of it. So that's the tough part we've gone through local doctors before and let's just say last time the surgery did not go well. And there's a specialty center that's kind of far from us that does not take insurance, but they are that we've done our research, they're the best of the best. It's where she should be and how much is that? They're charging us 1200 bucks to have a conversation. So I don't yet know because there's one of it's a half a million dollars that's a great question. Yeah, I'm not having any conversations to you give me a price range, no paid conversations. Sarah, fair enough. So I pay the 1200 bucks and let's call the procedure $20,000 and you want to do it outside of insurance because of quality issues. Okay, that's fine. What's your household income? Just just over 200. When will the surgery happen? Not take home. Yeah. That's okay. That's great. That's great. When will the surgery take place, Rachel said? It's not scheduled yet because the initial consult is this week assuming within the next six months. Let's say. Here's what I would do, I would because your house is not paid off and because having cash in the season is probably going to be really a priority for you guys because of the health stuff. I would get out of crypto single stock. I would condense down. I would have my high yield savings, anything over and you'll know after the consult, the range of what this is going to cost you guys. But let's say it's 70,000, I don't know. You know what I mean, I may just take a beat and get through the health stuff. John, that's, I mean, to me, that's, I would want all of that taken care of and have that piece knowing like, hey, we have the money to make the moves we need to make with our health. And to me, like that, that's priceless. Agreed. But with the caveat that once all of this is settled up and if she doesn't need the surgery for another three years after this one, we're paying the house off and then, yeah, and then we're going to save again. So when this, when it comes back up in three years, we're good. Like I, the cushion for me is knowing health wise. We're fine. Yeah. And but we still have a target date. We're still not going to take our eye off the ball because we want to, we're going to stay motivated knowing what we're going to do after this. Yeah. But that's what I would do. Completely agree. So recap, cash out the count crypto and the stock today, put it in your high yield savings. Go do the consult, set aside the emergency front plus the budget for the surgery, though the rest of it at the mortgage. And by Christmas, the surgery is in your rearview mirror and you know how much you've got left to throw at the mortgage even more. And you can do this very, very quickly. Both things will occur. The emotions of the surgery and taking care of your wife are raising this up and making it like it's a blocker to this. It's really not. It's just a step. It's just one more step in the process is all from the math part. [Music] (upbeat music) - Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. If you're working the baby steps, every major expense deserves a second look. 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(upbeat music) (upbeat music) Ramsey show a question of the day is brought to you by why REFI, if your private student loan payments are out of control, you may feel like you're out of options. Why REFI was built for borrowers in different situations in difficult situations. And it helps to explore refinancing options to fit your budget. Visit whyrefi.com/ramsey might not be in all states. - Today's question comes from Paul and London. Hope you're doing better than you deserve. I'm a long time list center from across the pond. I'm on baby step two and have $25,000 in card debt at a 7.5% interest rate. Now that my credit cards are paid off, I have the option to withdraw cash from the LMET 0% for 18 months with a 3.5% cash fee. Would you recommend doing this to save on the interest if I'm confident I can pay it off within the time frame? Now he's not talking about using the credit card that to pay off the car. He's just talking about using cash from the credit card with 0% interest, right? - Yeah, so zero versus seven and a half on 25,000. - Yes, but to pay off the car, with it? - Yeah. - Yeah. - I mean, no, Paul, I mean the reason you're in debt and the reason and how you're going to get out, it's you, it's not moving from debt to debt, still continuing to kind of play the game even at zero percent interest. The math isn't the issue at this point in 25,000. I mean, hopefully you can pay that off depending on what you're making in 12 months, right? 2,000 bucks a month and that gets you out of debt and the 7.5% interest rate at that point really, really doesn't matter. - Sure. - Less than, I mean, so you know. - It's about 300 bucks. - You might save 1,000-- - 1,300, yeah. - Maybe 1,500, something like that. Because you're not going to have the 25,000 borrowed for an entire year, you'll have about 10,000 borrowed average over the course of the 12 months if you're paying it off in 12 months. You said you can do it for 18 if you want to, but I didn't think you were going to do that. Let's call it a year. So the discussion is, do I save 1,000 dollars by doing this hack and borrowing money on my credit card? And I'm with Rachel, no, you don't. Because you don't have a 1,000 dollar problem. You have a 25,000 dollar problem. And you don't solve a 25,000 dollar problem with 1,000 dollars. So the thing is, you feel like when you do this, that you did something and the Bible says out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. In other words, what's really inside you end up saying it without meaning to and you'll say something like, I paid off my car. No, you didn't. You moved your car dead onto credit cards. You did not pay it off, but you'll say that. Yeah. And you didn't. And it feels like it in a sense because you're not making this the car payment, yeah. That'll slow you down. So you need to just be pissed off at $25,000 worth and how fast can I knock that out? It's called $2,100 a month for 12 months and you are done, my friend. And that's what we're aiming at here. So let's just do that. And it's going to cost you $1,000 more than your idea. But you can't hack your way out of debt. You pay your way out of debt. Yep. And that's the same. I mean, people, we see this all the time with either debt consolidation companies, people taking out he-locks to pay this. I mean, just the moving the debt around. Makes you feel like you did something. And you didn't. That's right. So that goes for all those options. And so the painful answer is, you just pay it off with money you earn. And the debt goes away. And by the way, but surely. Copy stupid credit cards today. Don't keep them around. And that gets all this stuff out of your head then. They're no longer an option. We don't have credit cards in our house. That's what you need to say. And he said, now that my credit cards are paid off, meaning at some point, you would have credit card debt. And now we're going to get, no, no, no, no, no. Get rid of them. By the way, the way you got credit card debt was you believe the lie that you could go use it as zero percent interest for 90 days. And pay it off, yeah. And then you didn't or 30 days. And then you didn't. And so let's just stay away from these snakes. They bite. They're real snakes. They have venom and stuff. All right, Mark's in West Virginia. Hey, Mark, what's up? Well, everything's going good. This made a lot of bite choices. You look like. I know a guy just like that. He does a radio show now. Yeah. Well, I had emailed you and I had no clue that I would get a call. I just figured I'd get an email. So I got a question maybe too late. Almost 64 years old. I have zero retirement. And I'm looking at social security in a few years. That'll be about $1500 a month. What do you make? What's your income? With my income and my wife's without-- before taxes, unfortunately, about $54,000. You're both working 40 hours. No, she's on social security. She don't work. And I'm a pastor. And I'm-- I reckon it'll be a considered by vocational. I still come to work on my machinist betrayed, but I've been pastoring 41 years. Yeah. OK. So I've never had a retirement everywhere at work. There was never no retirement offered. So I've just lived from hand to mouth, actually. Yeah, you have. OK. So-- And do you have debt-- Well, my question-- You have debt? Yeah, I have $118,000 left on the mortgage because I had to refinance. Because of medical issues, I didn't have new insurance at the time. So that was the only way I could pay that debt was to refinance and just have it in a different place. Well, my magic wand is low on batteries. And so I don't have an easy way to fix this. The only way I know how to fix it is that you guys have to do things you've never done before in your life. And that's work. A lot more than you've been working, not that you're not a hard worker. You are a hard worker. But I want you to take all the overtime. I want her to get a job. I want everybody working. And let's just stack as much cash as we can stack, because we need some money. Now, well, she's physically not able. And I'm working best in still pastoring, but I've had a stroke and a couple of heart attacks. And I got cancer, so it limits me and what I can do. That's fair. That's fair. I'm already getting about 30 hours out of the day. Yeah, I bet you are. Yeah. And pushing to do that with all the stuff you've faced, I'm sorry. But I do not know how to fix your situation except add money to the equation. Is there anything available? I mean, I know it's too late. I understand too late for anything major. But is there anything I can out there? I've never entered my mind about investing until here just recently, but I've done some checking, of course. Is there anything I can do that makes money? Is there a money? Well, my money thing that I've talked to me and that's worked on these 401(k)s, and they're all the time pushing money here and there. And we'll watch. Well, if you put some money into a good mutual fund, it will grow. And that's what I would suggest. And you can learn about that by getting one of our SmartVistra pros on the line. And I just go to ramsysolutions.com and click on SmartVistraPro. And they've got the heart of a teacher. And they'll talk to you and tell you how to do it. But the only way this machine spits out money is you have to put money into it. And so you're going to be living on less than you make, Which means you're going to cut expenses further than you've ever cut them and anything you or she can do to get any income coming in to throw into this machine. It's called a mutual fund and in your Roth IRA and let's just see how much we can get in there because I mean if you start putting $500 a month away, that's a lot, but that's going to be a whole lot more than you got today. And this is not going to end well, $1,500 a month is not going to work. No, because they're probably living off around four, it's probably what they're bringing home after taxes and everything. And so I'm just wondering mark where you guys can look at that and say, hey, what if we radically, yeah, put 800 away, even for a short term, you know, that's $10,000 a year. Emergency fund though, even just starting out, right? And so small steps, I think for you guys, Mark is going to feel like a lot, a little bit more money coming in than what you're used to tightening up the budget and putting some away in savings. And then yes, eventually an investing would be a great spot. But it's going to, it's going to be a lot considering everything that you guys have going on. 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So it's okay to notice when you're paying more than you should, but you shouldn't keep doing that. Stop overpaying for your phone service, go to boostmobile.com/ramsie and make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com/ramsie. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on boost mobile unlimited plan. Thank you for joining us America, we're glad you're here. Sheridan is in Winston's Salem, North Carolina, Sheridan. How are you? Hey, Dave and Rachel, thank you so much for taking your call. I'm doing well. How are you guys doing? How can I help? Hey, I was just wondering, should I be saving up for a new family vehicle while I still have my house mortgage? Yeah, you can upgrade a vehicle. What's the current one that you have? Well, I have three vehicles, actually, I have a pickup and I have a little bit of car that I drive to work and I've also got my wife's malibu that we drive for good. And we're going to upgrade that. And I want to upgrade the malibu, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How much would it go for? Well, it doesn't have to be right now, you know, it's probably worth about 4,500, I would say. Okay. How much do you guys make a year? Uh, take home after taxes around 100. Okay. You're fine. Yeah. Yeah. What we teach Sheridan is the first three baby steps, the thousand dollars saved and paying off all your debt except your house and then having an emergency fund you do with intensity and you don't do anything during those. You don't go on vacation. You don't buy anything, you got all that in your rear view mirror. And when you move to baby steps 4, 5 and 6, then you move from intensity to intentional and intentional includes. Yeah. Well, I have a buddy that thinks I'm stupid for saving up for a vehicle, why I still have my house load. And I was like, well, I'm going to call you guys and see I have, I have about 15,000 and the high yield savings and I've got another almost 6,000 and other savings account. Is that your emergency fund? I don't have any other. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, I would leave that alone. And then if you want to, yeah, save a couple of thousand and upgrade to a $10,000 car. Well, I have, you know, I have some in my account already. I have about 10,000 in my vehicle fund now. Oh, that's in addition to the 15,000 addition to, yeah, go buy a car. Can you go get a car? Go buy a car. Yeah. Well, I've got. Yeah. Take cash. Absolutely. Well, you got a good friend who's like, semi great about saying you should be working for a car. Usually most friends are the opposite of that. And then you get you a car payment. That's what most people. I know. Yeah. This guy's got, you can't ever buy a car again till you get your money. No. That's not what we teach here. And we teach when you get to this stage, maybe steps four, five and six, that you can do some things like upgrade the car, go on vacation, go out to eat again. And any extra money you get beyond your that stuff and the 15,000, 15% going into retirement goes on your mortgage. And that's baby steps four, five and six, run simultaneously. So you're doing it right. You're doing it perfect. West is in Atlanta. High west. How are you? Yeah, you don't. What's up? So about two years ago, I was able to leave my company that I worked for and start running my own business. Cool. I've got a long landscape business. I've got big enough where I can do it myself. Cool. I've got about 10 employees and I finally got mad about the debt and started paying it off. I paid off about $80,000 in the last last year. Good for you. That's great. So the big question I have is I'd like to always plan an event. I've got a 401K account that I had with the previous company. I've got about $80,000 in there. So my question is should I've just kind of been letting it fit. But I want to start out and now that I started getting everything paid off, I want to start adding money to it. Should I leave it where it's at or should I move over to like an IRA or some other account to that would be better off for me? Yeah. Roll it over to a traditional IRA. And so you can get with the Smart Vista Pro and do that if you need to. You can go to RamseySolutions.com and check one of them out in your area. But yeah, you never want to leave an account with an old employer. So go ahead and just roll it over. And then yeah, I mean, you're to the point with after paying off the debt to start investing. Yeah. You're not actually going to add to that account. That's a specific one. But you can sit down with the Smart Vista Pro and set up your retirement planning through your new company or just direct as an individual, whichever one you decide to do. And but you are Rachel's right. You always roll it over and we always tell you to spread your mutual funds across four types when you do the roll over growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international all with good long track records, very calm, very, very sedate, kind of boring. And but then you've got control of it. That's not sitting back with some HR firm or some HR department and you hadn't looked at it in five years. You don't want to do that. You want to get it with a Smart Vista. But as an employer with ten employees, I mean, he can set up a set up. He can set up a set up a simple or a set up, probably a simple would be better, a simple IRA, which is a very expensive for our inexpensive 401k for a small time employer. The only has almost no administrative fees to run it. A big time 401k when you got a bunch of team members is expensive to run from the employer's perspective. But this is very inexpensive. It's called a simple IRA. So ask them about that for your new account and roll over the old 401k, just into as Rachel said, a traditional IRA. Lindsay's in Boise, Idaho, high, Lindsay, how are you? Hello. I'm good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I found myself in a pretty precarious situation this last year with some significant home of chairs and medical bills that have piled up. Unfortunately, my husband and I are separated, so maintaining two households found out yesterday the well has failed in the home that I'm living in and requires a new well to be drilled. So I'm looking at approximately a $23,000 yet coming on to me. And I am just wondering if, if you want, is the best option for -- I'm sorry. We put a wells in Tennessee and nobody ever said $23,000. Serious. That's nuts. The last one I drilled was $3,500. Okay. And it was like a year and a half ago. I got a quote from a second company, just brief information over the phone, and he had said $16,000. Now, it was $23,000, also includes the $4,000 of a repair that they attempted yesterday that did not happen. But that was not. What's the repair? No. No. So our aquifer has filled the sand, and so they tried to flush it out. and it was unsuccessful and so very charged. just 4,000 for that. - Well, I'll be honest, I've never drilled a well in Idaho. So I don't know what I'm talking about. I've only done it in Tennessee. But that just sounds way out of whack. I'm gonna keep learning about this. What's, do you own the house, I take it? - Yes. - No city water available. - No, not available. - So I guess we were looking at, you know, more likely for all of the component, 18 or 19,000. That 23 includes the 4,000, where they attend the repair. - And the repair? - Sure, yeah, the repair that was attempted at that time. - How much do you make Lindsay? - I'm currently unemployed, but working on employment. My husband does make 250. - And why does he not have 23,000 put into his house? - Oh, he is working with me on it, he is, yeah. - Why doesn't he write a check and pay for it? - 'Cause there's no cash available for that right now. - Well, it's $250,000 coming in, so where's it going? - Between two half-holds and four children. - No, that's not, that's still $23,000 left over. Nope. - What for a monthly, like for that? - No, I mean, his monthly income is $20,000 a month. - Oh, no, no, no, I'm sorry, that's pre-tax. - I know, I know, I know, but his monthly income is actually $24,000 a month, pre-tax. And so, and he has absolutely no money saved. - Not after the emergency found that we put towards the home repair last year. - Okay, so you're telling me your husband makes $250,000 a year, you're gonna have a dime. (upbeat music) - You're telling me your husband makes $250,000 a year and he doesn't have a dime, and you're separated and you're unemployed. There's a lot going on here, kiddo. I'm digging, I'm gonna dig into this further since we're digging away. - I get multiple, multiple quotes. - I'm gonna get multiple quotes and I'm gonna lean in with him a little bit more and go. You're the only one with an income and your four kids need water. Running a business is hard enough. The tools you use to run it should make your job easier. Too many business owners spend more time fighting their software than selling their products. You didn't sign up to become a web developer. You signed up to build a business you're proud of and Shopify gets that. With Shopify, you can design and launch a professional storefront fast without the headaches. Everything you need to start selling is built-in. And when your customers are ready to buy, Shopify's purple shop pay button is one of the best converting checkouts in the world, which means fewer abandoned carts and more sales. And when questions come up because they always do, sidekick, Shopify's built-in AI assistant is there to help you keep moving. All you need is the idea. Shopify handles the rest. Start your free trial at Shopify.com/ramzie. That's Shopify.com/ramzie. Shopify.com/ramzie. (upbeat music) Welcome back to the Ramzie show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramzie, Rachel Cruz. Ramzie personality, my daughter is my co-host today. Brad is with us in Seattle. Hi, Brad, how are you? - Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call. - Sure, what's up? - So I have a pretty unique situation that I haven't been able to get great advice on. Over the last year, I've been in a really unique situation where my wife and I have been busing our butts. We've been working five jobs and I'll have about a million dollars in income just for this year. That includes revenue from a for-profit flower farm agricultural business. My problem is that I hate giving the government my money. My question is, I've met with about 8501 C3 lawyers and they're telling you that I can start a non-for-profit that I kind of do on the side anyway. I just use for-profit revenue. I can use my, bring value to you. - You can use what, say again. - The lawyers are saying that I can start a non-for-profit and use my donor-advised funds that I will contribute this year to bring value in some way, shape, or form to my community. And self-dealing is a concern. So I wanna make sure that I'm approaching this decision from a position of integrity. And I thought I'd ask your advice. - So the non-profit, okay, so you put money on a donor-advised fund and you add it to your 501 C3, which by the way, you could just put it in the 501 C3. You don't have to go through donor-advised. But if you did that, the only way that works is a 501 C3 money is gone. Whatever you put in there has to be used for that charity, that purpose. What is the purpose? What are you doing? - So we have a flower farm and it's a for-profit business. We have basically an agro-tourism business, but we've already been volunteering in the local community, teaching kids how to do what we do. I'm just using my time in our revenue. - Teaching kids to do what you do. - You cannot pay yourself out of your own non-profit to teach kids to do what you do. That will not pass on audit. - Yeah, I will put in a independent board of directors. - Doesn't matter. And don't do that anyway, I wouldn't. - It's okay. - I have a family foundation and me and Sharon are the board of directors, no. But everything we give to is independent from us. We're not buying financial peace university and giving the kids to somebody and giving ourselves the money out of that. We don't do that. That's not an integrity problem. That won't pass a tax law. - So all that's my question. Let me challenge. - You buy flowers with your 501(c)(3) to give to the poor from yourself, you're gonna get hammered in an audit. - So the challenge is that's what lawyers are telling me that I can do. The use case where I can have my for profit by a tractor and I can have my non for profit, at least the use of the tractor, if it is at fair market value. - You're gonna get hammered in an audit. I don't care, I don't care what your lawyers are saying. I've been, the IRS audits me like it's a hobby. Okay, like they have their own office here. They're here all the time. And our family foundation is included. And so, and we had another non-profit at one point that we shut down just because of this exact crap because it became, it does not do what you want it to do. You're trying to, you've made money for the first time in your life, you've become successful and you've figured out that in America that people want you to be successful until you are and then that you are evil and you must be punished and taxed into oblivion. And because socialism is good and all that bull crap. And so you're discovering that you're being punished for winning and you're trying to keep from giving the government all your stupid money. And I don't blame you. I get mad every April. Okay, but I don't blame you on that. But I'm also not gonna do something and invite the IRS to do an anal exam on me every April either. And they do. They just, they come around here and live with us and it's just they're, and they're horrible. They're horrible. And you just don't, you don't want to do anything. - I mean, it looks so bad at once. - You can't hide the pee from yourself. - Oh my gosh. - By doing all this shell game stuff. You can't, you can't move the shell game around. You can't move the pee round enough to do it. It doesn't work. So don't do it, don't try to hide. Don't lease the tractor back from yourself. Just go make money and give some money away and give it to a nonprofit that is independent from you. - Yes. What do you think about Daphs, the donor advice funds for? - I like donor advice funds. It's an inexpensive way to not, our foundation has a lot more expenses to run it than it does to run a donor advice fund. You just don't put in there. The big thing you gain with the donor advice fund is you don't have to obey the calendar. - Okay. - I can dump in half million dollars in December and spend the next three years giving it away. But I get to write off in December. - Yep, yep. - It has to go to a nonprofit on the other side. - Yeah, yeah, for sure. But individuals who are maybe on baby steps four, five, six, maybe seven that are building wealth. - Donor advice funds, great. - It's great. - Yeah. The last level of sophistication and expense is a family foundation, which we did about 10, 12 years ago now. - Yeah, 'cause I know people-- - But donor advice funds are great. - Though, yes, that there's ways that you can do it and a little bit more of a sophisticated manner. - Brad, I think your lawyers are living in the land of theory. And in theory, there probably is a test case that survived and went all the way to the Supreme Court. But I'm talking about impractical fact. When you start trying to move the tractor around and lease the tractor back from yourself from the nonprofit and buy the gasoline for the diesel for the tractor. And then you can't figure out whether the guy picking the flowers, who he worked for that day. And when you get down into all of this, you're gonna wish you just paid taxes. And by the time they come in there and you have to try to explain it to somebody who's not that smart because they work for the IRS. So that's a pre-qualifier. And so you have to sit down with them and try to explain how this works. And oh, there's a test case and lawyers and they go, "I don't even know what you mean." And all I know is is you can't do this. And this is what you're dealing with, man. And so the practicality of what you're suggesting doesn't work, that's what I'm saying. And the hassle you'll probably have to deal with. It's gonna be a pain in the butt. - 'Cause there was a non-pro, I forgot about that here. Right, that we gave. - We had a non-profit that we gave people donated to it. And we gave financial piece university away from their donation. - To low income. - Yes, to homeless shelter, right? - They came in and audited and they said, "You have to have a board of directors." And I'm like, "Oh, you don't, the law says you don't." Well, you have to. And I'm like, "Okay, just shut it down." Well, I can't really tell you you have to. And I'm like, "Well, you just did." And you're wrong. I know, but we think you should. And I don't care what you think. Get out of my office. I mean, this is the kind of conversations we've actually had with these human beings. And so, I know what embarrasses you, but it's the truth. - No, it's embarrassing. It's probably why they always audit you. - Yeah, well, cause I think they're idiots. But yeah, that'll do it. I think they're, and they represent an idiot government. So there we go, just keeps on going from there. Anyway, don't, I wouldn't do it, Brad. I think you might survive the theoretical thing, but you might spend more in legal fees and CPAs fighting your audit and tax lawyers fighting your audit than you ever saved in taxes, all with good intent. So, I'm sorry, the bad news is when you make money, you get to pay a lot of taxes. The rich don't pay any taxes, said no one who's ever been rich, rich pay more taxes than all the people that said that put together. That's just bull. (upbeat music) - One of the biggest mistakes Homebuyers make is talking to a realtor and shopping for houses before understanding their real budget. And that's how you end up falling in love with a house you can't afford and trapping yourself in a bigger payment than you can handle. That's why you should talk to Churchill Mortgage first. Churchill shows you what you can actually afford, not just what a bank will approve. And with their certified home buyer program, your financing is completely secured before you shop. So you won't miss out on your dream home while you're waiting for pre-approval. I've recommended Churchill for 30 years because they help you buy a home the Ramsey way. So here's your plan, contact Churchill, know your numbers, and then when you find the perfect house, you're ready. Go to Churchill Mortgage.com/ramseyoffer for a special offer only for Ramsey fans. That's Churchill Mortgage.com/ramseyoffer or click the link in the description. (upbeat music) David is with us in Chicago. Hi David, how are you? Good, how are you, sir? I really appreciate you taking my phone call. My pleasure, what's up? To keep this as brief as possible, although there are a lot of moving parts. My wife went to the call and her father took out, and she has two other siblings and older sister, younger brother. Her father took out a parent plus loan for all three of them. And after everything happened with COVID and stuff and they reinstituted loan payments, the father had it set up where these payments were auto debited from his account. And then he expected his three children to individually, somehow there's a system with points to figure out the amount. Zell him, the other Zell app, that payment to replenish his bank account. My wife and I were complying to that and doing that because there's Christians, we want to do the right thing. But then there was an incident on Mother's Day over a year and a half ago where there was a disagreement. They do not like that my wife converted to Christianity and was baptized. And they also do not like me. I'm a disabled police officer and they do not support my career in what I'm doing. And because of some mishaps, which have been apologized, multiple attempts of forgiveness. And the father and mother and sister and brother have completely disowned me and my wife. That has been zero communication to us for over that entire year and a half. And with that said, the father is still wants the money. I am conflated with morality on what, there is no written agreement. There was no contract where I'm fixed in come and we simply want to understand, you don't want a relationship with your daughter, but you want her money. And with that said, would that nullify, I mean, I understand legally, the parent plus loan is in his name. And it's auto-debuted from his account. It's also collective with the three students. It's not separate or individualized. Like my friend, for example, can log in on his own and pay from his own account, even though it was under his mother's name. It's not set up like that. It's all collective. And so I'm generally asking, should we continue to zeal him this payment? - So before your wife went to DePaul. He said, I'm gonna take out a parent plus loan and your wife looked at him and said, I will pay that. Or she went to DePaul and then he said, oh, by the way, you owe a bunch of money. - There really was no concrete conversation. My wife and I have discussed this. It was more just it was assumed it would be paid by the kids. They did mention verbally. - Who assumed it? Did the kid assume it? - Oh, the father. - I know. But I mean, did your wife promise him that she would repay for her college at the point before the loans were taken out? - I believe there was a verbal agreement there possibly, but with that said, he's completely disowned. - I understand that part. I'm asking about her promise. I'm not asking about his behavior. - Yeah. - I do not have, and according to my wife, there was a very brief conversation when he said, basically something I don't know how much he owes. - Yeah, how much is owed David on her part? - 70, I believe it's upwards of $75,000. We've attempted to ask even to lower the loan payment. And he refuses to even sit down with accountability, partner or somebody in a public area to even discuss lower in the loan payment and anything like that. I believe the loan payment was attempted to be lowered with him and my wife once, at which time the sister flipped out and made phone calls to have it readjusted so she could pay off her sooner, 'cause it's all combined. At which point now, none of them are talking to us and refuse to even talk to us about this payment. - How much is the payment a month? - It's $516 and about 35 cents roughly. How much do you guys make here? - I'm disabled police officer and a fixed income of about, I would say $80,000 a year. And my wife makes roughly about $72,000 to $78,000 a year also. - Okay. - We would pay check the paycheck right now and we're technically trying to save. - Other than it's unbelievably sad and ridiculous that he's disowned his daughter and still wants money, the issue if I'm in your shoes and that's what you're asking is this a moral obligation that your wife made? Regardless of the behavior of her father, you can't control his behavior, you can only control your behavior. And if she on a handshake said, I'm going to DePaul, dad, borrow the money and I will pay you back. If that is the deal, that is the deal. - Okay. - And if it's not the deal, it's not the deal. And I can't tell from our conversation because it's still wishy-washy if that's the deal. You said it was kind of implied, parent thought it and maybe there was a conversation with a 17 year old but she has no very clear memory of it. I mean, if I sat and looked her in the eyes, I don't think based on what you've said, she's going to slap her hand on the table and say, absolutely, I promised him I would pay it. I don't think she believes that. - She was under the impression at the time of the loan that the loan was taken out separately in her name and it was not combined where she's paying the loan. - That doesn't matter, that's not the issue. - The issue is did she promise him she would pay his loan that he went and borrowed. That's the only thing that's bothering me. If you get one side of the other of that, it's your answer. And so I wish that you would tell me that she didn't make that promise and the old man just told her, everybody that that's the way it is because I'm in charge and you're going to pay this back. In which case, I'm telling him to stick it. That's actually, no, that's what happened. He said, they asked if they could, they said where they wanted to go to school and he replied and he said, okay, I'm going to take out these loans for you guys with a favor. And then they said, okay, and he goes, you're going to have to pay this stuff back. That was his demand. And I think at the time that happened several years ago, if she agreed to that demand, before she went to school and took his money, then she promised to repay it. As uncomfortable and ridiculous as this is, she made a promise to pay him. And she shouldn't have to. It's wrong. I wish she hadn't. I don't want her to. I don't like this guy. Your call made me not like him. And a lot of suspicions about all the stuff going on. It's really nasty, but yeah. So, you know, you could do this. You could say, all right, when you give us a full accounting of exactly what my share is and a payment schedule that shows us when that is going to be paid off, we will resume payments until you do you'll get nothing. I mean, I would do that with a bank. Yes. Well, and because there's a weirdness, if you're two years in, and you guys are throwing, you're like, I think we've hit the 75. We don't know. We don't know. And for the sister, he said the sister got mad because she wanted to pay her off sooner, which I get because the interest is accruing. And if he makes them spread out, she didn't know more, but we don't know how I know this. I'm saying your sister, the sister shouldn't have a say in your part. Not in her, but not in their part. But she probably says on my part, I don't, I don't want that payment schedule. I want to pay more so I can get it paid off because I don't want to pay the interest on it. But he's lumped it all into one and you can't tell. So here's the deal. When you give me an exact amount and an interest rate, and I will pay on that schedule, we'll resume payments until you do. We're not going to pay anymore. He has nothing in writing. Because I need to see some. Yes. There is nothing he can do. He's going to have to just sit on that egg until it hatches. And so I would, I would stop all of this craziness. This guy's a power player. And he throws himself around all the time. And the way to handle that is just very calmly. Just say, you know, we've talked about it. And we're not going to be sending you any more payments until we have an actual accounting of what is owed that is her part only. And, and, you know, and then we will pay payments on her part only. That's, and that's like not a crazy request. No, that's if a bank, if a bank was jerking me around, I'd want to account audited before I gave many more money. I just put them on the sidelines. I do the exact same thing. And I, David, I'm sorry. I'm sure he feels in the middle of it too. It's horrible. Well, and, and it's just, it's horrible. And, uh, word of warning to the 30 million of you listening, that's what a parent plus loan is. Can you say sucks? Don't do student loans really. Don't do parent plus loans. And really don't obligate your 17-year-old for $70,000 to go to Nepal to get a degree that makes $70,000. Bad parent. Bad parent. If you're behind on your bills, doing more of the same isn't going to fix it. You need a different plan. And that's why I tell people about guardian litigation group. If you've missed payments, if collectors are calling non-stop, or if you're getting letters about legal action, that's your signal. And it's where a lot of people wait too long because the longer you wait, the fewer options you usually have. And once it turns into a lawsuit, things can get more expensive and more complicated, fast. Guardian litigation is a law firm, not a call center. From day one, you are assigned an attorney who represents you. So if a creditor moves forward, you're not caught off guard and you're not hit with surprised legal fees. Guardian litigation only gets paid when the debt is negotiated and the client accepts the settlement offer. This is about stepping in early while you still have leverage. Don't ignore the problem. Take control of it. Go to guardianlit.com/ramsy right now. That's guardianlit.com/ramsy. Attorney advertising results may vary in no specific outcomes guaranteed. We teach you to live like no one else. Sacrifice, hustle, grind, sell stuff to get out of debt. So that later you can live and give like no one else. Set yourself free. Get rid of the debt, get your emergency fund done. That's baby steps one through three. Baby step four and beyond you move from intense to intentional. And that's where you get the second half of that. Live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. So you need to live again once you've gotten to baby step four. We want you to live again with the live like no one else crews. Go with us on a cruise, baby. That's it. That was my best, that was my best home right there. That was pretty lame. All right. That's pretty bad though. That's pretty. Hey, the live like no one else crews. The second time we've done it is this coming March and March will be here in 20 minutes. It's right here. Let's go. Let's go baby March 14 through 21 seven nights. Holland America nice ship. This is not Walmart on the season. This is the good stuff. And this is incredible. We had an absolute blast. This time we're going to Jamaica, the Grand Cayman, Grand Cayman, Cosmell, even the Bahamas. We're going to all this stuff. And we're going to come the whole ship is people that have gotten to baby step four and beyond and are sell of braiding. The fact that they got out of debt and they're winning with money and they're living like no one else. I'll be on there with my wife Sharon, Rachel, John Deloney, George Campbell, Jade Washer, Natalie Grant is coming as our musical guest. She's incredible. And many others is going to be a whole thing. We're going to pop up Q and A's. We're going to do events. George and I decided this week. We're probably going to do some of that investing essential stuff where we go into the wealth planning, estate planning stuff, the nerdy stuff because it was real popular. We think some of y'all might want to have that on the cruise. Anyway, you can have a cocktail with George and I for smart money happy hour live. You know, yeah. Oh my gosh. There's there it is. There's the picture when y'all did it. We're going to record a smart money happy hour live event there. We have fun. We have a blast. The people had a blast. Everyone on the ship was positive. Let me tell you how you know it's cool. The staff on the ship. All the workers on the ship said we have never had a ship full of people that were this kind and this generous to us and easy to work with. That's who comes on. They said they're the nicest people. It's like the nicest people and they were dread they were dreading having a regular people on the following week. Oh no. Yeah. It's so great. It is so fun. You guys. So maybe step form beyond go to ramsysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes. Get your cabin. You can reserve it for 600 bucks. There's a few left. We would love to have you come with us. It's going to be 2000 people just like you and people celebrate. We have people that had just gotten married. We have people that have been married 50 years. But it's live like no one else crews. March. Get your world's largest debt free screen. There it is right there. Man. It's going to be a blast. You don't want to miss this. And we actually enjoyed it. I kind of was worried about if I got trapped on a ship with 2000 of you people. But it actually I actually had a great time. It was a lot of fun. I had took a lot of pictures with friend new friends. And we did a lot of fun stuff. And we really, really enjoyed it. Cindy is in Reno, Nevada. Hi, Cindy. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey, thanks so much for taking my call. I'm excited to talk to you. You too. What's up? Thanks. So I'm calling about my brother. This is kind of a moral financial situation. But over a year ago, he was making $100,000. He lost that job and couldn't make one single rent payment after losing the job. So I paid his rent. And our parents supported him during the first year of unemployment. And I should say he's 63 years old. And he has now at the point where he is unable to afford housing. So how do you help someone who has been so irresponsible, financially, their entire life? I would say he has a shopping addiction. Do I get involved? I'd like to sit him down and talk baby steps with him. But is that my business to do that? And is it too late to turn things around when you're in your 60s? It's never too late. People change all the time. And sometimes they have the best chapter of their life, late in life, because they finally wake up. So we can certainly be prayerful for him and think good things for him. When I first started making a tiny bit of money and I saw someone in need in a situation like that, I would just give him money. And a guy told me one time, he said, "You're lazy, Dave. You didn't care enough about them to really help them. So you threw money at them for your conscience and you walked away. That's exactly what our parents have done for a year. That kind of convicted me that just throwing money at something might even be harmful. That's what I think rather than helpful. And so I want, I don't want to be an enabler. I want to be a helper. And so that would require me where I in your situation to sit down with him and say, look, we've allocated some of our money to try to help you make the turn. But with that money comes requirements of your behavior. No behavior, change, no money. And it's not because we're punishing anyone or controlling anyone. It's because we love you and the behaviors that you're using are hurting you. And we want to see you not be hurt. If he had like a drug problem or a gambling problem, I feel like there are avenues that I would be aware of to go for help. But what do you do when someone just shops? This is a guy who has no money, but he has had an apartment. He doesn't anymore full of stuff plus where is he living? Right now he's in a warehouse that a brother of our brother of our zones. It's in a poor part of town. The roof leaks, but it does have a little kitchen and a bathroom. One and he's living there free of charge. He's truly hit by it. It's not, yeah, and it's not zoned residential. So I'm assuming that that could be like a county code filing. Oh, I'm sure it is. But that's okay. I'm not worried about that. But the point is he made it to a point of his own. I'm 63 years old and I live in a warehouse that my brother owns. That's the bottom. It's that. But then it's also the sad realization though of and I don't want to speak this over him, but there are just some people and they just don't. They just, they, they are fine with where they are. That even the bottom doesn't, like I, I want the bottom to change him, right? For your sake, you want them to, to hit some level of reality. And I pray he does, but then you also have to come to grips with, there is a possible fact that he may never, right? And so what do you do? I'm not giving him anything because I'm not going to participate. When you give someone money that is engaged in misbehavior, you're financing the behavior that's bringing harm to them. You are harming them. Well, and I feel like that's exactly what our parents are. Yeah, that's what you've done to, what you've done to, probably. And he always, it's always the big joke that he's going to end up retired and living with me because I'm a big Ramsey fan. Let me help you. It's not a big joke. It's not happening. So it's not funny. That's not funny at all. So what I would do in this situation, you ask for kind of, I'm going to create a structure of some kind that has some accountability to behaviors that get him out up and out of this mess. So thing one is you get no money, except I'm going to match what you make at your new job and you need a job. And I don't care if it's cleaning dishes. I don't care what it is. You need a job and the more money you make, the more I'll match for a certain period of time and then you're going to be on a written budget and you and I are going to go over the budget and you're going to stick to the budget or you don't get money. This is also part of your job because I'm not going to give you money for your shopping addiction. I'm not going to give you money for your alcohol problem. I'm not going to give you money for your cocaine problem. And I'm not going to give you money for your problem. Whatever it is fill in the blank. So we're going to be on a budget. We're going to stick to the budget and we're going to work. And we're going to go to, and he needs to go to counseling. I mean, there's obviously, I mean, there's, I mean, there's so cute. It's real bad. I mean, there's something in him that's very, very, very broken and then deny it. Whatever it is. And he, and he never really, and I really, I pay for that. Yeah. And he never says that he has collected. I don't even think it has very much worse. But he is so, so, so attached to it. I don't know if I can get almost like a, it's almost like a hoarder type. Yeah, again, which is whatever the behavior you want to change, tie it to the money supply, no behavior change, no money supply. Yeah. And he, again, he also needs to work on who he is. Because if it's a symptom, all of this is a symptom of something going on in him. And until he gets that anchor fix, all of this is just going to continue to spend, spend an orbit. Got to get upstream. She's right. 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That's zander.com. If you enjoy this show, we could use some help. If you'll click the like button, subscribe, the share button where you share the episode. You tell somebody where you're listening on talk radio, spread the word digitally and in person, let people know we're here. You're the best marketing we have. You might be the only marketing we have. So check it out. We'd love to hear from you and we'd love for you to tell people we're here. Thank you very much. Charles is with us in Chicago. Hey, Charles, what's up? Hi, Dave and Rachel, before I asked my question, I just wanted to thank you for helping completely change my life. I've been listening to the show for a few years. When I finished medical training 24 months ago, my wife and I had about $535,000 in and about about $50,000 in auto loans as well. And over the past 24 months, I paid off every single dollar of all of this. And I've also built up about $300,000 in investible assets. That's crazy. That's amazing. You are making some serious money way to go, Charles. What are you talking about? Yeah, and what what do you do? I'm 32 years old. I'm an anesthesiologist. I'm earning about 680,000 a year. My wife and occupational therapist, she makes 100,000 a year. We have no student loans, no car debt, no consumer debt of any kind. My only debt is 240,000 remaining on my mortgage for my house. What a 3.2% love. That's amazing. I've been built on Charles. Yeah, I've just been living like a resident for the you have, man, you don't. They're all at the debt. You avoided dockitis, man. I'm proud of you. That's amazing. Well done. Very well done. Now I'm going to do something that just doesn't feel comfortable because I've been listening to the show and delaying gratification. But in the spring and March, I want to buy a new car. I want to buy a Corvette. And I want to pay for it and cash, but it's about $105,000. I already have about 50,000 earmarked for this on top of a $40,000 emergency fund as well. And my only thing every month is 1,600 mortgage. I plan to pay that off or sooner. What is the what's your home worth? My home is worth about $470,000. I was paying a little extra on it. I bought it in 2020 right when I started training. And I've been paying a little extra towards it as well. But now I'm like at a point where I'm starting to feel more secure, more confident. And I do want to reward myself. I think I could do it without derailing my long-term plans. But I'm having a hard time with the opportunity cost of what if I put that $105,000 in the market? What if I put that in a mutual fund? You'll do that the rest of your life. You got plenty of time. You're okay. You can do both. Every time we buy anything that we enjoy, it has an opportunity cost to it. So when Sharon and I go on a trip, that's two weeks long. And we stay at really nice places and spend too much money. There's an opportunity cost on that. I could have given that to a charity. I could have invested it, but you also need to live it. And you have done a wonderful job. You're killing it. You guys, your income is ridiculously wonderful. It's otherworldly. So everything is in place. You're obviously going to have the other 50,000 to pay cash by spring, right? I'll have that in like two months. Yeah, I'm still going to wait till spring. Do you have investments of any kind at this stage? Yeah, I have about $290,000 worth of investments, mostly Roth, and I max out my my Roth 401, I max out my Mega Backdoor, Roth IRA, I max out two separate Roth IRAs, and then my wife puts 20,000 a year into a 403D. It sounds like your net worth is bumping up around a million dollars with a house equity in that, isn't it? It's about 600. Yeah, and by spring, it'll probably be close to a million. Probably within a year, I injected based on my one of our rules of thumb, and we just made it up, by the way, is don't buy a new car because they don't go down and value until you have a net worth of at least a million dollars. That usually doesn't come up when someone is making 800,000 though. Yeah, you know, that's I mean, so you're in a different situation here and you're going to be very, very close to the million. So if I were you, I would buy that car in the spring forecast. And we're talking about a 27 Corvette, right? Oh, yeah, it's a new engine. They came out with 535 horsepower. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. I know. There's one on my garage. I just, I just took, I just got delivery on it. Okay, and the 27. Hey, let Charles have his moment. That's okay. We're having our moment together. We both love this car. Oh, yeah. This is, this is, I really want you to have this car. It's a great car. And yeah, it's a perfect. It's very neat. Yeah, I want you to get it. And you've, you've done everything right. You've done everything right. Me and my minivan will just wave in your battery car. Yeah, you just wave at us from your battery car, but we'll have a real engine. Charles, that's awesome though. Well done. Have fun. Yeah. Enjoy it. Enjoy it. It's a great vehicle. And it's, and even if it wasn't, even if it was a $100,000 Tesla, the day pays regardless. Yeah, that's right. I still tell you to do it. Still tell me to do it. But I get more joy in telling you to do this one. But yeah, but it's, it's still a great, you know, it's still you are the, the math and the process of where you are is freaking incredible. You guys just did a, I mean, you went all in and did it, man, and just can write such a magnified because the numbers are so big of the death though, but it just shows if you're intense for two years, regardless of it's 500,000 or 50,000, right? Of dead. You pay it off and then your life is opened up and your income's there, right? And again, not you know, it could be 80,000 versus 800,000, but the numbers are magnified in this specific situation. But it goes to show, regardless of the numbers, it's still the same thing, like sacrifice for two years of your life. And then all of a sudden, it's like, okay, pay off 500,000 dollars of student loans in two years. And there is a, it's kind of like we're talking about the cruise earlier. It's a, it's an emotional thing to, I think it's harder psychologically and emotionally to turn off the hustling grind and turn on the enjoy than it is to actually do the hustle and grind. It's weird. I mean, because we all, and a different kind of way, it's hard to flip that switch to enjoy. It all takes work, yeah, because when you're, because those of you in the grind are feeling it and you're exhausted, you're ready, you're ready for a break. But then it's weird. It's like, grass is always greener. And then when you get to the break, it's like, okay, now I'm almost fearful to spend it because I don't want to go back to. Well, no, it's your body and your system is running at one speed on one thing and you're taking a hard right turn. And it's just, it's like, it's crazy. And to be able to look at that car and go, is that okay? Now, you're talking, is it okay for a guy that's making the household income is 800,000 dollars to buy a 100,000 dollar car. Yes, let's pretend you made $80,000 and bought a $10,000 car, exact same ratios. But most people just can't relate to an 800,000 dollar income. Yeah, I mean, really, wow. And so, but an $80,000 couple making 80 grand by a $10,000 car for cash. In the exact same situation, we told them to do it. Yep, absolutely. For sure. For the ratios still work and you still get to flip the switch from intensity to intentional, from live like no one else to. So that, so that, so that, I can live and put a 27 Corvette in your garage, Charles. Way to go, man. Yeah. And that's permission for all of you because there's a lot of new listeners and some of you are building your baby step one, your $1,000. Some of you are in the hustle and the grind of getting out of debt. But once you get that emergency funded and then beyond, that, that is, it's where you actually get to make choices with your money because you have margin again. And if you're investing still and being intentional with some of it, there is the freedom to be able to say, yes, we're going to, we're going to make some decisions and to spend and that's okay. That permission to spend is okay. Here's something that keeps a lot of parents up at night. Kids are growing up with more access to information than ever before in history. But most of the content is calculated to keep them distracted, make them mad and keep them scrolling, not help them think for themselves. Worldwatch exists to be the antidote to the algorithms. Worldwatch is a video new service built specifically for pre-teens and teens. They're daily 10 minute videos that explain what's happening in the world through a factual Christian worldview. No outrage, no noise, just clear reporting you can watch together and that your kids can actually understand so they can come to the dinner table engaged and curious instead of worked up or zoned out. And I love that Worldwatch doesn't talk at kids. It gives family something to talk about because when my kids are older, I want them to be able to think for themselves and separate news from noise. And right now you can try Worldwatch free for 30 days. Click the link in the description or go to worldwatch.news/ramsie and use promo code ramsie to get started. The ramsie offer includes your first full month free on top of the standard 7-day trial. That's worldwatch.news slash ramsie. Welcome back to the ramsie show in the fair wins credit union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Steven is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Steven. How are you? Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure. What's up? Well, uh, me and my wife were we just turned 20 or 47 this year and just now started retiring. And my job offered a 401k or a Roth 401k. So I enrolled in it and they're taking 940 out of my check. I'm going to max it out every year. And then I got an account set up with fidelity, a Roth IRA there. So we'll max it out. But everything I've been seeing is saying I'm just too late and I don't know if I should just put it in the bank. I'm sorry. You're too late. Too old. Is that what you're telling you, Steven? Yeah, too. Yeah. Who told you you're too old? Well, I think I feel on the internet and looking up that it won't accumulate in time. Everything on the internet is true. Abraham Lincoln said that. That's just, you know, anytime you got that, that's just hogwash, man. So, okay, so you're 47. Let's just play with it a second. And you said you're putting in 900 or a thousand dollars a month to work, right? No, no. I get paid by weekly. Oh, okay. I'll put in 2000 dollars a month. Yes, I'm maxing out. Okay. Are they matching? Are they matching also? They don't do a match. If they do a property year, they'll throw some in. Okay. But right now we're 2000 dollars a month. And then you're putting how much in your Roth IRA individually? Max and now. Seven seventy five hundred a year. Yes. Okay. Yes. Each, though, your spouse has one, two, 14. So that's an extra thousand bucks. Yeah. 12, 1200, 1200. Okay. So that's going to be $3,200, right? Yeah. 30 goodness gracious. You're doing well, man. That's awesome. And so let's see, at 67, you'd have 2.7 million. Yeah, I think you're too late. I don't think you're going to make it. Oh, I don't think I will be now. Okay. So you can go to ramsysolutions.com and use our investment calculator. That's what I just used. I've got I've got it on my little phone thing here. And it came up 2.7 million dollars. Okay. And if so, if I'm half wrong, you're still okay. Right? That's great. Give me my wife struggled for so long. I just don't want to continue. I just Let's go. Great promotion of my job, and that is where it lies. The thing I want you to learn to do is to calculate these things out for yourself and let the math tell you what the facts are, not the internet. That's right, you're right. And so now let's make sure that you're invested in good growth stock mutual funds. You're not in bonds, you're not in money markets, you're not in cash, you're in good growth stock mutual funds. And the four types we talk about look for them in your 401(k) and talk to your smart investor pro or whoever's helping you with your Roth IRAs, make sure that they're in that. They're not just in the bank, but don't let the hope stealers that are out there. And there's people that they're full time job is to steal people's hope. And they run out these bogus theories of things, the way things are going to be, and you don't do this, you don't do that, and you're not going to have enough with after inflation adjusted and all that. And the bottom line is, dude, you're going to be a multi-millionaire. If you never get a raise in 20 years and just only keep putting in this amount, and dude, if you don't get a raise for 20 years, you're a loser. Really, you get a raise, you're going to get raises. So this is going to be even more than that. I'm going to say you're going to have about four million dollars if you stay with this and you stay in good growth stock mutual funds. And you just, yeah. It's the consistency, Steven. Now, if you're 27, obviously, would that be better mathematically? Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. But no, but it's never, never too late. Never let someone tell you that it's too late and make you cause you to do nothing. Because if you do nothing, you're guaranteeing it's too late. That's the irony of that stupid advice that's out there. Well, it's just too late. So are you going to put it in the bank? I'm just going to eat dog food. I mean, what in the world? Robin noodles. Serious, you know? So, yeah. And just make sure you're in good growth stock mutual funds as you go along. That's the trick. Dan is with us in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Dan. How are you? I'm very well. Thank you, Dave. And thanks for having me on your crawl. I had a question. So my wife and I are working this together. I just retired this year. It turns 70 as well. My question is, we have 1.5 between it to those 1.5 million in our IRA. And we pull in 12,000 a month after taxes in our retirement. The question I have is, should I start pulling out from my IRA roll again to our Roth IRA, the tax free one, and keep those distributions. So I say in the 22% bracket, or should I month up to the 24% bracket and pull out a little over 200,000 each year? Okay. Yeah. You're going to run into RMDs. You know that. Required minimum distributions of 73. Whatever's remaining in 73 in that traditional, you're going to have to begin drawing down on it even though you don't need to because you have enough monthly income to live on, right? Yes, sir. Is that why you're wanting to roll it over to the Roth? Manly, Dan? Yeah. I want to pull it out and put it into the Roth. You know, I don't know if it's a wiser to pull it out up front earlier and start making more money on the tax free side. Yeah. Or just leave it in the IRA and just roll and start pulling out the middle. Well, the thing is the tax bracket thing becomes tricky and you actually can sit down with somebody and try to map it out. But I would get it done sooner rather than later because the problem is the 1.5 continues to grow. In other words, while you pull out 200, it probably grew another 200. And we've balanced it between the four categories that you talk about. Yeah. But I mean, if it's growing at 12% or so, it's going to grow another 200 pretty quick here. So you're never going to get ahead of it in licks of 200. You're going to have to do more than that. And that is going to push you up a bracket. So the thing is this, if you just kind of do some math this way, it helps me remember how to do it. It'll double. If it's at 10% growth rate, it'll double about every seven years. And so 1.5 in seven years is going to be three and seven more years is going to be six. And every one of those dollars you haven't moved to Roth are going to be taxable. So now you got $6 million worth of taxes because you're trying to avoid bracket creep. Taxes on $6 million because you're trying to avoid bracket creep instead of taxes on 1.5. So I'm going to move the bulk of it. I'm going to move it pretty quickly. I'm tempted to do it all at once. I'm not sure that the math works on that. Just sitting here doing it in my head. But I'm probably going to do it in no longer than three years. I'm going to do a half million. Get the taxes on that. You're going to pay the taxes, but you're going to pay taxes on $6 million if you don't. No, you're not. Yeah. Some day you're going to pay the taxes and you're going to pay taxes on more and more and more every year that you don't move it. That's the downside. Yeah. You can't get ahead of this creeping it. And so you've got to chunk it to get there. And yeah, if you've got the money to pay the taxes somewhere, then I'm going to do it. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show, whether you're making a decision or just want something explained ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com. Everyone needs insurance. You need defense and offense. It can be hard trying to find pros or just looking to make a buck and agents who really know their stuff. Ramsey trusted insurance pros are vetted by us and coached by us to make sure they're market experts and to make sure they have the heart of a teacher in your best interest at heart. Go to RamseySolutions.com/coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. Tucker is in Brecken Ridge. Hi, Tucker. How are you? Dave and Rachel, hey, I'll do straight to my question. As I said, I live near Brecken Ridge, Colorado where housing prices are very high. Yeah. Local governments have created workforce housing programs, absolutely. Most of the ski resort staff, yeah. Yeah, so you must live and work locally. You cannot own any other real estate and appreciation is capped at two to three percent per year. We currently on a market rate, two-bedroom condo worth about 750,000. We could move laterally or even down and value into, say, a four-bedroom workforce home, what's your opinion? We would not do that. The reason for owning real estate is the appreciation. The purpose of the workforce housing is to try to keep workforce that can work the ski resort and it can afford to live there because we're dealing with 10 million dollar houses everywhere, right? And condos that are three million dollars and everything else. It's hard to be a bartender and live there unless you have workforce housing. And so most of the ski resorts have done that, but that doesn't mean that you purchasing something that's appreciation capped is good for you. It's just a way to get people to work the mountain. That's the reason they're doing it. And so I don't know, that you're past that. You are now a condo owner that's going up in value. And so my guess is your family's growing and the two-bedroom condos getting tight. Yeah. Building a tree bar would like a yard. That's the family growing. Okay. Well, the gold is a great dog. So I'm with your brother as well. Yeah. All right. Yeah. I would like for the golden to have a dog too, but I don't want to lose 700 grand for that. And that's what you're going to increase in value. So how long have you owned the condo? Three years on this one. Okay. On this one. You lived in the area though for a while. Yeah. This is the second property I've owned. Okay. All right. Are you there full times at your primary residence? Correct. Yeah. So my reason for my question is still it's easy for you to answer. Think about all those years ago when you bought the first one versus what prices are now. And that's why I'm telling you not to do an appreciation cap work for housing you. understood. I'm a real estate agent up here. So that has always been my inclination is that, you know, kind of kind of project housing. But, um, well, it, it, it, it, it, it isn't it isn't, but it's, it's a, it's a, it's a government subsidized thing to create a labor supply that is needed. And that, that's, it's not invalid, um, because it's, you know, but it's not where I'd put my primary residence. But I don't want to, I don't want to bet my future on that. Yeah. Um, you know, if you're a bartender and you're single and you need to instead of driving in from Denver every day, which is impossible, uh, you know, then that, you, that, that's, that's why they did this, is so to cover that and not for you. So no, I, I would never take, I would never step out of the free market that is working into a subsidized market that is capped. That's bottom line. And it's just an expensive place, as you know, Tucker to live. So, man, it's, it's beautiful too. Absolutely gorgeous. All right, Jason's in Pensacola. Hi, Jason. How are you? Hi guys. How you doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? So, uh, my fiance and I are trying to work through, uh, base step two. And we've got about $60,000 in personal loans and credit card debt. And we've got 90,000 still left on the mortgage. Um, now, net take home pay is about 130 grand a year. And we were really committed to getting rid of this debt. But we really want to get married at about this time next year. So I was wondering if you had any general advice advice about how to save for the wedding and also and pay off as much as we can. Yeah, well, first Jason, I would keep the debt and the income separate. So I'm just curious, the 60,000. Is it pretty much 30, 30 or who, what, what makes up the 60,000? Uh, the majority of it is mine. Uh, about 5,000 is hers. Okay. And then how much is she making a year? She is, she's netting, well, her growth pay is about 50,000 a year without overtime. Okay. And yours is 80. That's correct. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, first and foremost, Jason, I really would, I would not be paying on hers. I wouldn't have her paying on yours. I think you guys functioning still as two single people during the debt payoff process. You can both sign on this house. No, no, no, no, who didn't? Who, who's the name is it under? It's under my name. I actually, uh, I actually purchased the home before we met. Okay. Okay. So yeah, so I would just, I would, she makes 50 grand has no debt and you're deeply in debt. Excuse me. Yes. Right. Yeah. Well, there is a small caveat to the debt. 30,000 of that debt is currently being paid off by a student loan payment for the National Guard. Okay. When will that be completed? That'll be, that'll be completed in about four years. Okay. While you're, you're in the National Guard, so it'll take the four years of service. Yes, man. They make a, they make one lump some payment at one anniversary day every year. My list, okay. Um, I'd probably still make it a goal. Just, I mean, I don't know. I think I'd want to be done with it so that you have the ability to make decisions if something changes in your life. So the question you asked, though, was how do we say for a wedding while on baby step two? So I would figure out, okay, what is probably, because, I mean, you know, you guys have debt. All of this other stuff is happening. So I would say, what's the least wedding we can have that we would be okay with? Right. And so you kind of look out to say, we're probably not going to go and have a $50,000 wedding, right. So what, what, what does the feel look like? Do we want venue church? Like, I would really look and kind of map out here would be my reasonable quote unquote dream wedding. And this is me if I'm, if I'm her. And then we back out the pricing and say, okay, here's probably what this is going to cost. And you're going to see the price and probably be like, okay, it's probably not what we can afford, because that means we're going to have to save X amount every single month until the wedding. But we still have other goals. We're still wanting to put some towards the debt. And so I would start to really paint this picture of what do we want this wedding to look like. And then once you have that realistic number of what you're shooting for to say, okay, then how much do we have to put a side each month to save for that wedding in junction with, though, having, you know, a goal to get this debt paid off, right? To be putting money towards the debt. So it's kind of like a two for one, but it's going to be a check of expectations on what type of wedding you all will have. And at the rate at which you can save. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. I appreciate that. So Jason, the way the language you used tells me that you've combined everything you're living together, everything but a marriage. Jason, it's how you get married this weekend. Yep. Not really. I mean, we get married, get married this weekend and then live your life for a year and have a celebration in a year. Because you're fooling no one, not even yourselves. No one's fooled. You know, I mean, what is the deal here? You're already acting like it. So just be it. Now, I would get a pastor and get married this weekend if I were you. And then I would have a celebration a year from now and pay off as much debt as I can while budgeting for the celebration that looks a lot like a wedding. You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the Smart Vestor program. Smart Vestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options, so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramsysolutions.com/smartvester to get connected. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramsysolutions.com/smartvester Amy is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Amy. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? What's up? Hey there. I am calling to see what I need to disclose to my boyfriend. We've been together a little over a year. We have very different backgrounds and situations when it comes to employment, income, savings, all the things, and we're looking and discussing emerging homes, getting married, things of that nature. Just kind of trying to figure out what to disclose and when without giving all my cards away, too early in the game, if you will, and just kind of where to go from here. So, are you more successful financially than him than he is? Yes. Yes. Yes. By how much do you think? Substantial. To put it out there, a recent divorce made over, you know, walked away with over a million dollars cash and home paid for, car paid for, he's working two jobs, has two small kids, early any savings. The house is fully paid for, in cash, by me with my name on it fully. Just trying to figure out that she lives in the boyfriend? No, not yet. But we're getting there. Oh, but the house you're currently living in is what you're saying. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. How, when did you get divorced? About over a year ago now. Over a year. How long have you guys been dating? Okay. That's funny. You ask. Probably just shy of a year. Okay. Um, so in general, the rule would be, a relationship rule would be if you're going to share your life with someone before you agreed to do that, they should know who you are. 100%. And if you're uncomfortable them knowing who you are, you're not ready to spend your life with them. That's fair. I think I'm just more hesitant how to do this in a smart way. I guess I don't want to overwhelm them. I am. I will tell you a very privileged situation where I'm a single mom, two kids. I'm not working. I have an income, a very substantial income as a equalization payment for divorce. What's the, how much do you get coming in? I get $10,000 a month. And how much do you think he has coming in? Probably $4,000 with two jobs. Okay. Yes. Right. Okay. I don't think that's that far out of a culture, but what's out of culture is is that you haven't, you got two things going to number one, you're a human and you got your heart trampled on and it ended a year ago. And so to jump back into the trust game is hard when you're wounded. And that would be normal, right? I mean, you should be a little bit standoffish after going through with a divorce. It's just fresh, right? That would be normal. You'd be weird if you're like, oh yeah, it's all okay now. I mean, that's a, that's a denial, right? I mean, your heart has had some healing to do the scars of the process you all went through there as some healing to do to be able to fully engage and trust someone else. And so some good pre-marriage counseling is in order for sure. And I personally think it would be a huge mistake to live with someone, especially in this situation before you're married because it involves your paid for house and your income that's three to two and a half times of his. And you don't, you don't work. Right. And so I think that's going to get weird fast as a shacked up boyfriend thing. So I would just stand off and say, we're going to continue our life separate until we are actually married and we're going to enter disclosing this through a marriage, pre-marriage counseling process gradually and gently. And then a prenup is in order in this situation. Okay. Because it's substantially, we don't recommend prenups most of the time, but where there's a substantial difference between the two and with kids involved second marriages. I mean, it's just yeah. Yeah. And your, your, your alimony or support payments are not based on you not remarrying, right? Correct. It's more of an equalization payment as he wanted the investment accounts and he owed me cash. Ah, okay. So it's to equal that out more or less. I did a significant amount in savings, cash up front from selling homes and whatnot. So I do have a large savings of the side, but how old are your children? Mine are elementary and middle school. So we're looking at him in 13. They're younger, five and three. Okay. So you've, you've got up from today forward, the day you're married, forward, be treating these children equally too. Correct. Because otherwise you're going to have the Cinderella syndrome going on. And we don't want that. Yeah. I think it would be worth the time and the money I made to do, which I think you will, you sound intelligent, smart. I think you would, thank you. But just sit down with, you know, in attorney and and map this out really cleanly and well. And again, it's nothing against him. No, no, no, no. Yeah. But I think he's great. I don't hear anything negative about him. No. But the and your very wise, Rachel's point to realize these differences mean something. And then you're also very wise to say what we said out loud is that this stuff's off still fresh. And to work through the emotions of all of that trust stuff and not hold him accountable for things he didn't do that the X did. And that's a process. That's a top of mind thing you have to do intentionally because your human nature is your body ceases up every time he makes some comment that sounds like the X. And your body just freaks out. Yeah. There's been a lot of therapy on my part. And it was emotionally abusive relationship that I had to be that role model for my kiddos. Wow. So we got out of there and I came out very I kind of joke like thanks for the money in the trauma. It's been a lot of hard work. And this man I'm with is very patient. And he's like, you look as long as, you know, we're doing it together. Well, then that that graphs exactly into what we're suggesting. Well, and and it's going to be a beautiful thing. I mean, if or when I'm going to say when you guys get married, I mean, that's what's it's sounding like eventually that probably will happen because you're talking about living together. And and there's a there's a beautiful future for you guys when you say, yeah, you keep it separate which makes it so clean, no weird and tangled emotions of who owes what I wouldn't. I would and because of them, I mean, genuinely keep keep everything separate. You guys get married. Come back from the honeymoon. It's the Brady Bunch situation. And at that point, he's going to know everything. And what a beautiful life you guys get to start to build together. Do you know what I mean? Like it, you can see this money as as a gift and a tool and having him on board as well. And there's no level of him feeling demasculated or you know, emasculated or anything. Demasculated. I mean, the one that's the same thing. Do you know what I'm saying? But like you guys through an engagement process really work and build this new units of when it's going to happen, right? But I I think it really is important to keep the steps in order. Yeah. If that makes sense because I think that's exactly right. So I'm excited because you've processed this so well to this point, all the stuff you've been through. And this is just the next step. And I predict that your radar is really good. And if he is, there's three possibilities. He's healthy enough that he can graft right into this. And that's our positive possibility. The negative possibilities are, this causes him to not feel a need to produce, in which case he's opting out of your relationship, or he's like freaked out in some other way. And that's another reason that he, you know, he doesn't make the cut. And so he gets to choose how he's going to react to this and how he's going to graft into this by meeting with good counselor along the way. And you guys talking it through. But when he has full knowledge of everything, his behavior is going to tell you whether he's a keeper at that point. Okay. And if he's not, then that's just God's signal for you to not do this one, that it was a, you know, that he couldn't handle it because this all comes with the package called Amy. And she's, and she's worth it. And she's worth it, you know, so he wants to, he gets the two kids and he gets the package. This is it. A former trauma, the healing. He gets all of it. And this is wonderful. I hope it's a great second chapter for you Amy. Hey, man. Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget and the easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the every dollar budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free. So no excuses. Download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play today. Our scripture of the day, first Timothy, one five, the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Louisiana Senator John Kennedy said, always follow your heart, but take your brain with you. He's got some great one liners. He really does. Karen is in Orlando. Hi, Karen. How are you? Hi, good. Thank you. What's up? Well, my house has a leaky roof and I did take financial peace, but I wound up in debt again. I just spent too much and made some bad decisions. I did wind up getting solar and getting a new roof with solar is almost twice as hard because they charge quite a bit just to take the panels off and put them back on. So the roofing job is quite more than a regular roofing job. And then I'm thinking there could be water damage. So I'm just trying to think would it be better off to sell my house because I don't have my kids are grown and out of the house and just get an apartment or something or would it be better to keep the house and try to fix it and maybe turn my debt to that Trinity management or something like that. What your turn your debt to what? You've never heard of them. They said you recommended the month to go debt Trinity management. No, that would be people that lie. Oh, dear. Okay. Dave recommended them is like a deck and thought like a deck and solidation company. Yeah, and they are Christian. No, they're not, they're liars. Oh, they're liars. Oh, no, Jesus may love them. I don't. Yeah. No, this is not true here at all. Um, oh my gosh, you're sure that that isn't like, I'm positive. Some I have never endorsed Trinity anything. Okay. Um, the, um, yeah. Uh, okay. Anyways, okay. How much I'm assuming you have no money? Um, no savings. That was one skill I didn't acquire because I always got my bills paid and I was usually out of debt. And then I kind of took some long turns. But the savings part I didn't know. Okay, and you have debt. Yes. How much? Um, 30,000 in what? Um, credit card debt, uh, just, I'll credit card debt. Yeah, you pay cash for the solar. No, um, I'm still paying on that too. Oh, why should you own the solar? Um, I, 40, it was 60, but I've got it down to 40. It's at 4% interest. So I didn't think it was about a deal. You, you really did flunk financial peace university. Okay. Um, the, um, wow. All right, Ms. Karen. Um, wow. So if you sell the house, what do you owe on the house? You owe 30 or something? Oh, just to sell you. Oh, okay. That's good. Yeah. What's the house worth? Um, I haven't officially got it a praise, but I've looked at similar homes. Um, 300 to 400. And, but it does have it need a new roof. So I don't know how. I mean, that's going to be a part of it. But the, uh, so if you make a year, about 48. Okay. What do you do for a living? Um, I work at it a, um, assistant living, um, okay. So you, um, you have the 30,000 in solar. What was the other day? One more credit card, credit card, 30,000, 30,000 in the credit card. Okay. So if you sold the house, you were be free of the solar mess. Mm-hmm. Which apparently was a mistake since you don't have the money to, you know, the money to pay for it. And the credit cards could be paid off and you'd be debt free and you could buy a 200, $200,000 property that more suited your needs more condo, ask probably not a single family. Yeah, what, what would you enjoy? What would you, if you could pick anything in the world that was for you today? Because the house sounds like it was purchased for a different phase of your life a few years ago. Yeah. Um, yeah, I had two children and um, the house is a four bedroom house. Um, I don't need something quite that big, but it seems like even the smaller homes are still pretty pricey nowadays. Yeah, everything is, but so yours. Mm-hmm. If they're pricey, yours is pricey. You know, you know, yours isn't like all of a sudden on the, on the wood on the rubbish pile and then there's is gleaming castles. That's not the way it works. Right. Okay. Um, yeah, I think I think what if I were in your shoes, I would want to gather some information and it would maybe lead me to the wisdom. If I know all the info, usually I make better decisions. So let's get two, two, two bids on the roof, actual bids. Let's call a smart vester or a Ramsey trusted, I'm sorry, Ramsey trusted real estate agent have them come out and do a comparative market analysis and tell you what they would list your home for and show you why. And then also take the get with that person and go look at some of the smaller, shinier, lower, slightly lower priced, where you could be a hundred percent debt free when you sell this and a hundred percent debt free when you buy the next one. Okay. And then let's go go look at what you could actually live in and go, okay, I really like that. And I really like this number that the person's given me on selling my house and I don't have to fix the roof and I can sell it as is and I can be out of debt and I'm going to cut up my credit cards and I'm going to live on a budget and we're going to put you back through financial piece as our guest. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Or you may find that you can patch the roof for. Yeah. You know. Half of what was quoted to you, right? Just in one little area. I don't know. But that it just gives you options, Karen. Yeah. And but at the end of the day, I probably would downsize because of the not even just from the financial perspective, part of that is motivating me for you, but also your season of life and where you are. You're like, oh, yeah, you said it twice. I don't need this. I don't need it. So it could be a great move for you in this next part of your life. Yeah. And don't finance solar. And cut up the credit cards, Karen. If you if you do this move, the scary thing is when whether it's, you know, a massive, you know, payment people get from equity from a home that had sells or an inheritance or a lawsuit, right? And you get paid out, like whatever it is. And when you go and clear that debt, you've not really changed, Karen. You've just made some decisions that have helped you financially, but you have to promise yourself that you're going to change your behavior in that process. Yes. Never go back here again. Because if you go and get a $200,000 house and you're debt free and everything, and you'll rack up credit card, take me right back where you started. So you've got you have to stay. Stay the course. Logan's in Minneapolis. Hey, Logan, what's up? Hey folks, thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So my wife and I are debt free. We've got our emergency fund and we've got our down payment saved, but we're currently paying pretty well under market rent. And I was wondering if it ever makes sense to wait another year, save more in rent for longer before jumping into a home at the end of our lease. Yeah, it can be. How far under market, aren't you? We're paying about $1,300 for a place that should be probably be sent around $22 to $2,500 if we were rented and it was equivalent. Okay. And so we're talking about $12,000 a year. Okay. And if in what price range home would you be buying? We're shooting for mid to $300,000. Okay. How fast does that go up $12,000? One year. Not sure there. One year. So what you're saving, what you're saving in rent, the house you're getting ready to buy is probably going to go up about the same amount. Sure. You see what I did. I do. So it's okay. And it might be less because it's, you know, appreciation rates depends on the depends on your area and so forth. The appreciation rates might not be 6%. I think it's like 3% and so it might not be quite that much, but the point is it's not really saving. Yeah, you're not really saving all of it. Because while you're saving rent, the other thing is going to close to the same amount. And so no matter the play catch up, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's okay to do that if you want to do it. And I'm all for taking your time. Rent as patients. So get something for the patients. You know, I want to get a great buy on the other end to offset this. I want to bargain somewhere, take that extra time and find something great to deal. Yeah, get a deal, man. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace. And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus. [Music]