Yasen Dimtrov | From Slow-Starter to $100 million Fortune 500 Exit

Welcome to the 23-year-old podcast. I'm Kairi and joining me today is Yassin Dimitro. Here's the co-founder and chief data analytics officer at Intelligence Note and e-commerce intelligence platform. Over the past 11.5 years, he and his co-founders have led start-up on an interesting journey of ups and downs culminating in a recent acquisition by FPG. A fortune 500 company. So we'll hear more about this. Before founding Intelligence Note and the ensuing chaos typical of startups, Yassin was on the part of partnership in a relatively far more predictable field of consulting at boosting consulting group. So we'll hear what led to that time transition from the consulting world to startups. He is a long distance runner, a passion with share. So come to the 23-mile podcast. Hi, everyone. And Kairi, thanks for having me. Thank you. So first of congratulations on the acquisition. How does it feel to be in the company of weird tech startup founders who have achieved a successful acquisition? To be quite honest, it's been a very long journey for us. So we started the company with my business partner in 2012. And we started the company with an idea as everyone founder does to start something, get something up and running in the next three years, get the unicorn status and exit, which is not what actually happened. We started the company as a set of 2012. And it's been a long journey. So more than I would go two ways. In my mind, I'm conflicted. You know what I can say? It's been a long journey and it's been very difficult. But that's all true. But I think at the end, you know, we look forward as entrepreneurs and we make sure we focus on the positive. You know, we had a great outcome. IPG is a fantastic comfort for us. And I think we'll delve into why we chose IPG in a little bit as well. I believe in making sure that we succeed in that position, making sure that our journey, our journey, doesn't finish with that position. So, you know, on and on, I would say it's been a fantastic journey. And we hope for the best going forward. Hopefully everything goes well and from here. And like you said, and I question does not mean the end of the journey. It's just a transition to a different phase. Let's start at the beginning. Tell us about how did your early childhood experiences influence your career, choices, and then start up? So, first of all, I grew up in Bulgaria. In a very normal middle-class family, both my mother and my father worked the entire life. My father was a late entrepreneur. So, he has his own glass fixing company. I think he started his entrepreneur journey when he was 55, 60. A very late start. But that was an inspiration. But to be quite honest, you know, I had a very normal childhood. I would, I can start drawing some parallels of, you know, how the childhood kind of impacted me and why, and you know, why I took on entrepreneurship, et cetera, et cetera. But there is nothing really there. What I'm grateful to my parents is that they gave me a great childhood. And they set me up to make my own choices in the future. So, I wouldn't kind of lean those two if that makes sense. Makes sense. And when you finished from college, you went into consulting. Was this a natural part for you? Did they just fall in a lap? Or this was something you really wanted when you finished school? No, it was completely random to be quite honest. So, I finished my master's in finance in London. And then, kind of a plighting bunch of companies. Clant knowledge was a company that kind of took me off. It took me on as a junior analyst. And then, the passion for data developed there. You know, I would mention one day, Justin Trener. He was the CEO and founder of this company. And he was an early mentor for me. He wasn't the easiest character to work with. He has his kind of peculiarities. But I did learn a lot in this small startup that was very focused on, you know, for an exchange consulting. I think that, I think what was great is it was a very focused field. That got me into into into an area of actually focusing on and making sure that when you go into a certain topic, you actually exhausted and make sure you're especially in that topic. So for that, for that, I'm very grateful for for this particular for. Actually, I want to kind of open bracket here, which is very important for folks that are listening. Coming back to what I said about Justin, you know, he wasn't the easiest character. But you as a young professional have two choices, right? One choice is to say, yeah, I'm not going to work for this, you know, XXX, right? But you have another choice and say, okay, I'm actually learning here. So it doesn't matter that you disagree with certain aspects of how the company is on et cetera, et cetera. But I'm actually learning here. And that's what I keep saying to all our employees during town host. If you don't feel that you are learning in clan in intelligence, no, then just go do something else. Otherwise, what's the point? We are a startup. We are not the highest payers out there. And so the only thing left for you is to learn. So if you don't learn, just go do something else. And that was kind of a great experience, only on in my career, then I moved to, then I moved to expand research. That was acquired by Boston, Boston, Cassalton group. I think we need a couple of years of me joining, not a lot. I wasn't the key key reason why they were required. So, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to pretend that they are. But again, great experience there. And then I had exposure to the bigger company where. You have a little bit more politics. You have, obviously, you have a very set path in development. But why I left a Boston, Cassalton coming back to your original question and expand research, was exactly the reason I mentioned before, right? I stopped learning. And I left at the time where we didn't have kids with my wife. I was, I was not married. So, it was pretty much the best time to start. I started my journey with, with a friend of mine that actually met in my first company, Cloud Knowledge. So, it's, it's been a, you know, fairly standard journey for an entrepreneur. I started, you know, in a small company that moved to a bigger one, experienced both worlds. I said that, you know, maybe a bigger company is not that I to a forward. And then we started something ourselves. Two things you said that really resonates are with my own career as well. One is just that good luck of having a tough bus. A lot of younger ones today want life easy. But I was really lucky as well to have people push me across my career. And I won't be where I am today if I didn't have that. And the second one is, yes, it's the lead is so the tough bus is external. But the learning one is really internal to you. It's something you decide. This is going to be my most important thing. It has shaped my own journey as well. It has three knowledge rather than money. So, yeah, thanks for that. Especially, especially in your career, you have to make that choice. And you have to trust that you make the money in the late 40s, early 40s. So, that's, I think that's a smart thing to do. So, we're grateful for that. So, let's hope that at this industrialist name, some of that comes in handy for them. We're going to intelligence load, which you founded with your former colleague. What was the origin story for that? What sparked the idea? So, he's. We met in Clant, not only in my first company. And I left a few months after he joined. I went to BCG, then he left to India to start a couple of other startups. But in between, we kept talking. And in between, he was the best man in my wedding. So, we kind of. We kind of. We became friends. We became after that kind of business partners, obviously. But it was a. It was a mutual journey where we both were both not sure what to do and how to do it. And then it was quite likely for both of us that we were. Intelligence no happened at that right time in our lives. During the early days of the company, you know, we were. It was two, three people and then, you know, we were living in a small, unbedroom apartment in Mumbai. Right? So, you kind of have to like the person that you start with to kind of persevere this. Obviously, after that, he stayed in India and then I was running operations from here in Dubai. But that early experience kind of gave us the baseline for us to operate together and make sure that I'm responsible for wanting. He's responsible for another thing and make sure things are getting done. I mean, the co-founding team that stayed together for 11 years, that is remarkable. I mean, I was looking at the data earlier on. And I think it's maybe the average lifespan of the co-founding relationship is less than four years. So you guys have boxed it train then. important, right? Because the baseline that we created was very strong, right? First of all, we were friends, we started as friends without any agenda. Then obviously it became part of our personal life, right? He became a best man. And then I think what was really important was to, at least in the early stages of the company, to be together, right? To make sure that we iron out all the difference that we might have. And then I think what really helped as well after this early stage, actually went different ways, right? And then different cities. So I think you have to have a right mix to make sure that that longevity is there. That's right. Points to not there for all those who are looking for co-finders. So tell us more about intelligence nodes. In terms of the idea that it is today, you provide AI power, real-time price data to e-commerce. That much I know. So tell us more, where you're customers, what's your team like today, and what's your value proposition? So ultimately, let me just take a step back and tell you kind of why we started the company. So both of us were professionals in the financial services industry. And what we discovered by talking to people and then after that, so we're going to work to another retail company was that actually what was missing was the outside in view in retail. And more importantly, what was missing was the real-time outside in view. So our initial mission was to create a Bloomberg terminal for retail. That's what we pitched to our initial investor, our first investor, Bloomberg terminal for retail. And just just keep in mind that that's happening in 2012. And when we started pitching to different folks, they were looking at us first of all in retail. They were asking us what is Bloomberg, right? And what is real-time, right? The real-time for us is one month. That's real-time. The real-time price changes is so so so we were we were very, very early in the journey. Now, real-time access, real-time price changes and those kind of activities. I wouldn't say they're common, but at least for retailers that want to be relevant, they understand and they know they have to go there. In the beginning, it was struggle. That was that's shown in our revenue growth, right? We were slow starters to put it mildly. All right, we started pitching to India. We realized that India is not ready for this. Then we moved to Middle East. We realized that Middle East is not ready for this. Then we moved to Europe. We kind of discovered that Europe is kind of ready for this, but not really. And then after two, three years, we actually focused on the right market, which is US. But ultimately, what intelligence no does is it provides competitive intelligence. Two retailers. I picked on two train, two train of thoughts there. One is the value proposition, which started as a Bloomberg for retail, but then any of you know somewhere else. But then also the geographic keywords. How have you managed, how did you manage this pivot? They're not easy pivot to make. How did you experiment and figure out, okay, we need to do something else and how they this pivot and are working in real life. There's no shortcut to that. You need to go talk to clients fail miserably and then move, keep believing that what you're doing is that I think to do. And then keep searching for the best fit for your product. I mean, we've spoken to so many people, to be honest, is the same thing as investors. We've spoken to so many different customers in different regions. And we've been to so many conferences where people were just kind of saying, no, no, come to cut. Let's talk next year. Let's talk next year, etc. It's been, there's no shortcut for that. It's a trial and error at least in our, at least because we were a small team. If you have a large team, then you can do everything at the same time. But it was it was me and GIF, my business partner and a couple of more folks actually going out and attending conferences, making the cold calls. And at the end, you know, it got funnily enough out of our break was one of the biggest retailers in the world in US. So from struggling to kind of, you know, get a small lingerie player in India to getting a retailer with 5,000 stores in US and a global presence, you know, it was a, it was a fun, it was a monumental change for us. How did you pivot from this start-up based in Mumbai to successfully navigate the US market? This is something I think every start-up everywhere, even for me, when I run a tech startup, always wanted to do what it is in a credible heart. But you guys managed to do it. How did you do make that move and then acquire a large and customer from there? I think in US in particular, first of all, I think one word, air miles, right? You have to be there. You have to have to go to conferences. You have to make sure that people see you. You have to make sure that you have kind of the right value proposition. I think what's great about US is that people will give you a chance, right? I think it's very difficult in Europe or for that matter in India or in Middle East, right? People like logos in these regions, right? If you say it's a BCG, your BCG, then you can charge whatever you want, it doesn't matter, right? But if you say that you intelligence note, it's going to be very difficult to get somebody to sign a check, even a tent of what you're going to pay for BCG, right? And in US, what's great about, it's a culture, right? And that's why everybody wants to get there. People give chances. And obviously, you have to deliver, right? You can't just have a subpar product and hope that a key customer or a very decast customer will be paying for your services. You need to deliver, but you'll be given a chance. If you're persistent, if you go to the right conferences, if you pick up the phone, even you know, we've reached out only 10 to folks and people and folks have replied. That's, that wasn't unusual. You know, a couple of our biggest contracts are LinkedIn outstretched. And it's not one kind of advice here. It's not a genetic LinkedIn campaign that you're running. When you're starting the company, this thing needs to come from me or from my co-founder, you know, direct message saying, let's have a conversation, right? And in some cases, people will kind of, people will think, or but if somebody sees, if I see a message that comes from the, you know, from the, from the C level executive, they will immediately say it's a small company, you know, so it's kind of a, you know, I don't want to talk to them. That's absolutely not true. People do take chances. And even now, right, even in my kind of day to day activities, I do try to kind of, if I see a LinkedIn message, I do try to return the favor, if that makes sense, right? But don't be afraid. Don't be afraid that you want to look small if you as a CEO kind of reaches out. People will respond. Not everybody, obviously, but people will respond. Thanks a lot for that. Let's talk about one of the other points you made earlier, our fundraising. If I get the money to raise about 10 million, then I cross for for the four funding runs, including a series B. That is also, I will say, phenomenal achievement, because the traditional way it's as that today for startups, even between C that series A is as low as 20%. What did you do right to go as far as a series B? So we raised a bit, a little bit more. There were a couple of, a couple of, a couple of funding rounds that were not announced, but it was the total numbers was about 20 million. But that's that's that's I guess not important in this context. But I think we were very lucky with the investors that we got at the end. Because our investors had a very clear KPI, actually all of them, or our initial kind of a seat investor or as venture, was very clear on show me the clients and show me not only show me the clients, but show me clients that are paying. If you get, I don't remember what was the number, but it was like a four four paying customers. If you get me four paying customers, then I'll see you. That was the pay, that was as easy as I suppose. And his due diligence, right, was show me the show me the show me the product of the customers to come to me, open up your bank bank account, show me the money that you're getting. That was the due diligence, right. I need to make sure it's, it's, they're paying you. So that you must be, I mean, nobody gives you money because you're pretty, right. If you get, if you get customers that pay, then you know, I like your space. I think that obviously, you know, he did some due diligence on the side that the market sizing and all these kind of activities that every investor does, but at the end, the ultimate test was, do you have customers and other pay-in-your? That's it. It wasn't even, it wasn't about how much a repay-in-your, other pay-in-your. you. Because again, he made an assessment that now, if the opinion now for this service, for this scope, that scope will grow and that that that customer will expand. So that was that was that was our seat experience. And then our city's air experience where we got an NEA as a leading investor was to be honest, very similar. Right. They were focusing on on client growth. There was a focus. There was more focus on tech. So what tech, what tech you're developing, how can you scale this, etc., etc. But overall, it was very clear. Are you onboarding more customers and are they paying you? And if you think about it, it's a very simple approach and that that kind of made the due diligence very easy as well. I mean, that's very interesting because you basically boil down your entire fund rich journey into like the very simple terms, like you said, it's all about the customers. I repeat, it's just for growth. And no matter what happens today, it is still very relevant. And I think in a way, this takes us back to the conversation around if something is not working, you're trying new things, you pivot, go to where your customers are, which seems to be what you did right and then end up working well for the fund reason. Thanks for that. Can you tell us about some of the challenges and how those you face them along the way? And how does it impact you, how you overcame them? It's been, as we mentioned, it's been a long journey. We started with two people. We are 150 people company now. And we were not, we were not kind of the helper growth company that, that everybody hopes for when they start, when there's problem there with that is that if you are not growing, let's say 100% a year, but you were in 30%. Then you still need the funding to to arrive. But then at the same time, the funding is difficult to arrive because there is no growth. So basically what happened over the last 12 years, and I give credit to my business part of that, we were in a continuous fundraise. Literally for the last 12 years, we were constantly raising money. And that creates, as you can imagine, that's not easy. We went through some very difficult moments. We went through some crazy moments in 2020 and 2021. Let me tell you a whole lot, open a bracket here and tell you a funny story there. As you 2020, 2021, where everybody on this planet Earth was actually getting money from somewhere, it was an absolute craziness. We were not able to raise during this period. We were not able to raise because, again, because we had a very steady 30, 35% growth rate. And people did not buy that. It was better for us not to have revenue, then to have revenue running in 30% or 40% right. It was a really bizarre time. And then you really start questioning. So everybody's raising money. I mean, everybody's becoming the unicorn. It was a crazy time. And then we are struggling. We are pitching. I mean, it was such a struggle where everybody was enjoying pretty much free cash. We did not manage to raise a significant amount of money during that period. It was extremely painful together. It was more of a, again, what are we doing wrong here? It's been 10 years. At that point, it was 10 years. It's 10 years. What do I mean, you start questioning yourself? Well, you pull through. Thankfully, you pull through. After all the years of hard work, you ended up with what the Wall Street Journal says is an $100 million acquisition. How did that come about? At what point did you realize, you know, we've been on this journey, we should get acquired. Did you plan the journey or did it, did the offer just following a lot? So tell us more about how that came about. So we've obviously over the years, we've had different approaches from different companies. And the all fell through for different reasons. And I mean, we had at least four or five different offers over the years. And again, there was something that was missing. And it was, again, 10 years, coming back to that crazy period that was describing before, you really started questioning yourself. Am I doing the right thing? What do we do? Etc. And at that point in time, we decided to onboard a banker. So we all boarded a fairly popular forum to help us to help us with the sale. I cannot recommend this enough. During the previous approaches, we were trying to do, kind of, we were trying to close the deal by ourselves. I think if you have, like in our case, a fairly mature company with, you know, a hundred employees, it was a small company. But we have, we have a history of activities, you know, 10 years, 12 years. I would recommend hiring advisor, a top tier advisor, even though the fees that these guys are charging might not be very appealing in the beginning. I would highly recommend in using them because they take a lot of the, I would say, a motion out of the deal. After 10 years, there is a lot of emotions. I would definitely recommend, I would recommend an advisor. So, so we go on advisor. We were approached, sorry, we were presented with 10 different options, 10 different acquires. We got offers from five of them, which were very grateful. And there was a wide variety of offers, right? One was stock only, one was cash only, you know, a different turn out period, et cetera, et cetera. What was really appealing about IPG was that they were, as a big company, they're in a crossroad at the moment, right? The advertising industry is getting disrupted. And what they're trying, what they're really trying to do is to beef up their commerce offering, right? Where we played very well. So, that's how, that's how kind of the, the, the marriage happens. They had a, they had a need for a company like us. And we wanted a kind of an acquire that will help grow our company. And, but not only grow, grow kind of revenue, but grow the technology, right? So, IPG, another, another peeling about a peeling point about IPG was that they were looking to develop and further grow our technology. And yes, you know, there is a concern about as growing clients, but that wasn't the driver, right? They, they're, they're 10 billion dollar organization, public least organization, as you mentioned. And we are significantly smaller than that. Let's, let's leave it at that. Just a word of advice here. If some big acquireer gets stuck on kind of revenue, revenue growth for your particular startup, I mean, I would, I would think twice, right? They should not be acquiring you for the revenue. They should be acquiring you for the technology and for the know-how of the team. And then they will help, ideally, they will help you actually scale that technology to a much, to a much bigger level. That was the whole point. It's using the resources of the bigger company to make sure that our take is leveraged. So, if somebody, if somebody starts focusing too much on revenue growth and and and and and and have the company that gets acquired have very steep sales targets, I would be very cautious on how how how how how how how negotiate my sponsor needs to be a mutual bond rather than just an acquisition for sale. I mean, you, you can run side the next question I had, which was around this framework I have when talking about acquisitions. I have these three concentric circles, which talks about the only reasons one company buys under the one. The first is your traction. So, in a revenue profitability, any of those things. The second is technology products and know-how and then the third is the team. But you've asked that question, that for a much bigger company buying a small startup, it almost always works best when it's in that bucket of technology and technology products and people, you know, those two circles and not so much the revenue. I can imagine if we were two startups competing with each other around the same stage, I could if I were funded, I could want to buy another one and then combine the revenue and then it makes sense. But for a public company. Yeah, that's right. So, but it really makes sense now. Thanks for flagging that for a much bigger company buying a small one, it almost always has to be around the product and know-how. So, okay, it makes sense. And I mean, and that's something I would like to emphasize, to listeners, to people reading or wanting to sell their company. If you want to sell to a bigger company, which almost always comes with bigger pay-off, pay-days, focus on the tech and the products, I look for more ones what you have. Awesome. If I can add one more point here is and this is very important. So, in our case, we are not 100 million dollar revenue company, right? We significantly lower revenue. But if you as an entrepreneur running a small company, go and have a very steep revenue target as part of your milestone journey post acquisition. And that's pretty much all your upside is tied to that. I would actually think twice surrendering the control of your company because it's a big company. There is a lot of politics in the big company, right? They might tell you that they'll help you with the sales cycle and then they'll have the all sales people going and selling your company that is not going to happen. So be very careful when you're negotiating your milestones to be as tightly written as possible regarding sales growth and sales milestones because that's something that can burn the founder's significance. Again, if all your upside from that position is tied to that, you have to be extremely careful. Big companies, you get really lost in the bureaucracy quite easily and then there is a lot of frustration. Thanks for that. You mentioned the bank has been extremely helpful with the process. From mandating them to the offer committee and the deal completing, how long did that process take? So that's what's another thing folks need to realize. It takes time because people are, you know, you have a lot of decision makers on the other side. For us, it took 12 months from the first meeting to the first to the first to actually closing the deal. So it was about 12-13 months journey. So you as a founder need to make sure that you have enough money to sustain yourself during that period of time. At least that was it. 12 months and was this from the first meeting with IPG or yes, was this first meeting with IPG to closing or my meeting of bank has to close in. So the process was we met with the bankers. We created the value proposition. Obviously we had a lot of a lot of materials there. That took a month, let's say, and then the first meeting with IPG happened within two months of starting the process. Not too bad. I mean, I've had, you know, 10-6 months journey. So I will say that it could be worse. That's a key message. It takes a long time and it could be worse. You know, thanks for that. Thanks for sharing the in-ad details of how that worked. Maybe the last question on the process is, you know, through the whole process, you know, from beginning deciding to sell to getting the sale through. What part of this was the most frustrating? Which part would you say funders really need to focus on? The most important part of it is to make sure that you don't fool yourself and you always need to consider that this thing will fail and evolve. And if you don't, if you put your kind of all your X in one basket, then you're more likely than to kind of being a position to surrender certain things at the end. Because the milestones that are actually extremely important and where you get the most of your upside, the milestone negotiations that happen at the end of the journey. So if you're not in a position of strength at the end of that journey, then you'll give it all to concessions. Which means that all these 12 years have been absolutely nothing. Right? So it's extremely important to make sure that you kind of obviously around the process, but just keep an eye on your clients. Make sure the clients are there. Make sure they're happy. Make sure you're getting paid. You know, make sure that new clients are there. So to be sure to focus that, listen, you know, you are valuable and we really like you. But it's okay if we decide to shake hands and move on again. Before we rock up. So what's next? How do you see the next few years? You know, it's part of IPG or other ways. What's next for you? So there are a lot of exciting, exciting developments on our front. So IPG itself is getting acquired by another company. So there is a lot of change that is happening already. But we have a very clear kind of mission and idea of what we have to do. And we are fully hands down at the moment and and develop our product offering. I wouldn't say there is nothing, nothing significantly changed in our roadmap after that position. If nothing else, it probably got a little bit narrower and more focused, which we really like. So we are we are full on at the moment. Thanks, but thanks for that. Yes. But every single company you've worked for has got acquired. That is. Yeah, right. I mean, I'm all right. Like every single company you've worked for has got acquired. That is a remarkable fact. Maybe maybe in the next life, if I see you go work somewhere, I need to go work there as well. To be fair, I don't want to kind of overstate my my importance. I'm sure I had some role to play in those acquisitions, but in both companies before before before intelligence note, where they were great founders, you know, Justin, Trenner and David Paul. And after that, in expand this, I have a great great team of partners that were actually kind of doing a fantastic job. So I can't really claim a lot of a lot of glory for any of these acquisitions, but I'm extremely grateful for those individuals for kind of making it part of their journey. What will be one word that summarizes your experience as an entrepreneur? Patience. So you're telling me there's no garbage quick. I can't start a company, you know, just to get rich tomorrow. I mean, very just. I won't I really wanted this to be honest when I started this journey, but and I wish everybody to have to have that, to have the unicorn after three, four years. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case for us, but I think patience, patience is key. Patience is key to kind of to sustain the relationship with the same person with the same co-founder for 12 years. Patience is key to to make sure that you know, in a go-shater, a good deal during an acquisition. Patience is key. In terms of managing a startup for this long and then your journey at great-forward, what's your favorite KPI? Your financial KPI that you obsess over? For financial KPI's, to be honest, they change. They change depending on where we are, right? Immediately after the front-trace, the KPI's, you know, we have to grow the the recurring monthly revenue. When we are getting towards the end of the funds or a fund exhaustion, right? Then we start looking at profitability. I think that as a as a as a founder, you have to be flexible and you have to move, you know, with where you are at the moment. You can't get stuck on a particular metric and say, I'm going to do that and then whatever happens happens, because if you focus on revenue and you don't focus on profitability and you see that your fund your fund race is not going well, then you're just going to run on the money at the end. So you have to be very flexible with different metrics. And to be honest, maybe that's why we didn't manage to get together early exit, because we didn't go all in. We were quite flexible, we changed with the circumstances. And there, I mean, we honest, I can see a very valid reason of folks of, you know, raising, let's say, 10 million and burning through this. And if it happens, it happens, right? I can get it. I see a reason for that, right? You kind of cut your losses and we move on. We were not that kind of a startup and it turned out well for us. And then final question, you find an exit. So definitely there's some financial rewards there. But if on top of that, you either have another exit or you won a lottery. What will they mean for you? Will you stop building? Will you start a company? Will you just sell off into the sunset? What will that mean for you if you had money that you knew what to do with? I have these conversations with my business partners with my wife. I think I wouldn't, first of all, to answer your question. I wouldn't do anything different. And I know it might sound kind of, yeah, but, you know, he's just saying this kind of thing. But I experienced an equity event. It was a great equity event. And nothing changed for me. I'm not going to go and buy a new bolts, let's say, and kind of, you know, go on a world tour or any of these things. That doesn't kind of, doesn't attract me. I'm still kind of, maybe I'm still processing what has happened. But I haven't, I haven't found the answer to kind of what's next for me or what what would I do next with my time and effort. I think that I like what I'm doing now. And, you know, definitely I'm not going to emboat him. Maybe some fancy half marathon on marathon, at least three, yeah. Do you see that? Absolutely. I already done what? I went to, yes, I went to, I went to Napa Valley and did the Napa Valley marathon, which was my first and last marathon. But and then we did another kind of interesting marathon going to different wineries with my brother. That was very exciting. So living with something to dream about, something to hope for. Thank you very much, Yasen. This has been very, very insightful and I hope everyone is listening and have fun soon. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.