X-Men Casting Rumors and ‘Spider-Man: Brand New Day.’ Plus, ‘House of the Dragon’ Season 3 Finale.

(phone ringing) - I need support staff to clear the room. - Stand up and walk now. - Hello, and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at TheRinger.com and joining me in the studio is alive! - It's Andy Greenwald! - Which, what, who are you talking to? Which ones, who is the live? - In the show. - About House of the Dragon. - Were you gonna spoil something? (laughing) - For what? - It's the dragon at the top. - How are we spoiling it? - Well, if you said who you were talking about. - Well, I assume people listening to the watch on a Monday of Watch House of the Dragon on a Sunday. - That's hope so. - Yeah. - Look, I'm just excited to see you. - I'm excited to see you too. - You're on vacation, man. I hope it was restful. - Not really. - Yeah, we had a lot of force fires, a lot of God parenting, but it was good, you know? - Yeah. - It's good to see you though. Some housekeeping. Obviously, watch at spotify.com for emails, the watch pod underscore to Instagram. For reels, for viral content, walk men versus strokes takes. Thank you, Kai. - How does it feel going over the middle catching those hospital balls? - You know what? It gave me a new appreciation for some of your work. - Thank you. (laughing) - That was like some real, like no wonder Julian Edelman is a little bit fucked up. (laughing) You know, it's got it tough out there, you know? - Yeah, I mean, you made the catch, but at what cost? - But I also, I stand by what I said. - Uh-huh. - It is what it is, you know? And if you don't like it, maybe this isn't the podcast for you, you know? - I would just say that you chose an interesting target, though, because Julian Casablanca's write songs about his critics now. - I heard that. - So you maybe, I'm realized. - Like I said, I don't think I'm gonna rise to that level for him, but that's. - You are listened to in the halls of power in this nation. - We'll see. We'll see. - For now. - Like in Mitch McConnell's coffin. (laughing) He's like, I got old on. Do you hear what Greenwell said about the hot team for now? - Well, he's heard a lot of spider-man takes last week, but not ours. - I didn't hear a great, great fucking image of, it was a do-he-wear, it was like Mitch McConnell is working from home. - I saw that as well. - And it was just a view. It was like, rate my work from home. (laughing) (laughing) - Stark, are we doing that? Okay. - Yeah, we're doing it. You're back for vacation, unfettered. - So that's housekeeping for us. - How you can get in touch with us. You can watch us on YouTube at the Ranger TV. - Ranger-TV, YouTube channel. - Yeah, yeah. - We share with the prestige TV podcast, and you can also watch us on Spotify or opulence into us, or you can listen to us on a variety of podcasts, networks, or platforms. And furthermore, I think we should just say out front today, it's hot D and B and D. We're doing a house-to-drag and finale, a little bit of delayed spider-man reaction, and also like some state of Marvel stuff, which I know we've hit a lot recently. - But it's out there. - Chill out. But it's D23 on Friday, and Andy and I like the X-Men, and we're just gonna talk about it, okay? - How are you celebrating D23 on Friday? - I think I might go see the end of Oak Street, which is not a Disney property. The last thing is that people will be curious to know our thoughts on the episodes of Furious that have aired since we last discussed it, and my thoughts at least on the first couple episodes of Lioness season three, although I know that you are dabbler. You're sort of a lion dabbler, not a lion tamer, but you like to stick a foot in the cage. - I am really touched by something that we should talk about, that you carried with you in your heart, this idea that I had been keeping up with Lioness out of my devotion to you in your worldview. - I thought it might be just out of your devotion to stay up on the news. - I thought that was so sweet when you faltered, when you heard that I hadn't been, so now I feel that worked on me. So now I feel like I should re-engage. Also, I did see a comment from a listener that this whole time they thought we were saying, "Linus," and then it was some sort of like, dark tinge, peanuts reboot, which I'm therefore. - Somewhere, someone has taken that meeting. - For sure. Like, what if Pigpen was the grime that clung to him was actually the grime of society? - Right, or Pigpen, yeah, Pigpen is taxi driver, kind of. So Furious and Linus on Thursday, today. - Furious is so good, by the way. I can't wait to keep talking about it. I just want to, I'm caught up. - You are bursting at the seams to talk about Furious. - I am so impressed by that show in ways that I think might be, I don't know, I'm eager to try and articulate, but I think it's really, really special. - Good, Linus is on Paramount Plus. This is a necessary segue. - Sure. - And so is the agency, which we talked about extensively a season two, the American adaptation of Libero. Its future has been largely kind of undecided. You know, usually something like that a show that expense to make and of the cast of that quality. You'd expect kind of like an immediate decision after the season. Perhaps Paramount was waiting to see what kind of numbers were coming in in terms of people catching up with the season. But after a couple of weeks of us being like, no news is bad news. - Yeah. - There are some rumblings, both ones that we've heard and also ones that showed up in Leslie Goldberg's Ancler Newsletter and since been aggregated. And when I went back to Leslie Goldberg's Newsletter, I was like, I wonder how people are making this deduction. She basically did a huge survey of everything that Cindy Holland who runs Paramount TV now has in development in which she's got kind of coming back. And in the returning shows category, she did include the agency season. - Yes. - And that was aggregated as confirmation of renewal. - Right. - That is not the case. - But we will monitor the situation. - Yeah. - I would say based on rumblings that I think that there is, that we are not alone in hoping that the show is renewed for a third season. But I do think that they're the kind of negotiations that we usually aren't privy to and the kind of negotiations that we actually would be kind of opaque to us regarding money and et cetera are happening right now. - I would just have to imagine that fastbender has like a window. - That's the other thing. That's a really, to the butterworths, 'cause they're making many other television shows. - Yeah, making layered, they're making mob land season two's about to air. They're still supposed to make season three with Hardy coming back. - And it's not just the fastbender as a window in a schedule, it's that all actors on returning shows have holds. And usually, and sometimes they even have like pay or play things in terms of like they get paid if their decision isn't made by a certain point anyway. So I would say that compared to when we talked about it, and really enjoying the season like a couple weeks ago, I would say I'm slightly more optimistic that we'll see more of it, but I don't feel comfortable saying that it's, I mean, obviously there's no news, but I don't feel like it's a sure thing, and we don't even know who, I would say there's a good a chance that it would be on another service that it would be on Paramount. - X-Men casting. That was the other thing I wanted to talk to you about, 'cause we're gonna talk about Spider-Man. I know that you and I give the MCU a lot of grief, and we have talked a lot over the course of like a run of our show about comic book film fandom, which I honestly count myself as a part of. - Do you? - Yeah, I'm sort of a blue dog in that coalition, but it's a big tent. - Yeah, I have to admit that the X-Men stuff coming out of Spider-Man is actually like awakening something inside of me a little bit where I am. - I'm talking about it. - I'm legitimately excited. - Tell me what I talk about. - Well, because of the way that I think I enjoyed Sadie Sink in Spider-Man a lot spoiler alert, but furthermore, like I just like the people who are working on it, as far as like the choices that they're making. - Like Sunny. - And Jake. - Shryer. - Jake Shryer is Joanna Kalo. - I don't like, you know, I like them personally, but like I don't know them personally that well. I just, all I'm saying is that like, it's a cool choice. - Yeah. - And so far, they've cast Kit Connor as Cyclops, Kit Connor who I saw in an Alex Garland movie Warfare, but I'm not super familiar with that. - Tart Stopper, right? He was to start one of the stars of Heart Stopper. - What was that? - It's a Netflix long-running Netflix romantic show based on the best-selling graphic novel series. - I feel like when we talk about long-running YA Netflix shows, like Chris Hansen's gonna walk in. - You know how this looks, right? Can we talk about that trailer? That is so sick. I'm really wondering if you were like, there's no way I'm gonna watch that. - I have rarely been as turned on by a trailer as Tony Revelori was. - You know how this looks, yeah. - I saw that trailer and I felt alive. It looks so good. - Yeah. - It looks amazing. - And he looks, you're just blacking out right now and I thought that was thrilling. And also instant memes, so. - It's, it's, he's, he, he may need to take himself out of things soon. - Yeah. - Because between beggars and that, it's like that's all you see, is his face. And now people are going back and grabbing like, this funny interview he did in 2013. And he's just, he's, he's patented and run shit right now. - Also like, there also, he's, he is now, did you see the clip of him? Like he's critiquing his own performance in Twilight? - Yes. - Being like how he sat down at a table and one scene and like did it with his fingers 'cause he thought that was an elegant vampire way to sit. And he's just like, he's having a great time. - Kick out our Cyclops. - Okay. - And he's think his gene gray Samara weaving is Emma Frost. - Now these are, nothing is official official. - Right. - But these have been reported as opposed to aggregated as rumors. - Then there are rumors. - Yes. - That three actors testing for Professor X. Wait, there's one, there's two others that are strongly rumored to have been. I bet I'm going to get to them. Do you want me to keep reading? No, when you skip Professor X and come back to it and do the other ones. Adam Driver is Sebastian Shaw. When you skip that one, Indy Navarrettia is misty. No, skip that one. Did you tell me? Charles Melton is beast and Kayleigh Spaney as rogue. Okay. Only because those have been repeated for a very long time. Charles Melton was on a beast list for a while and then, you know, this looks right. To catch a beast and then both of them obviously started. Patrick Chris Hansen looking in the guys just solving math problems. You're making it sound better. No, I mean, what if like Charles Xavier and adult is like, I must recruit special children for my school and Hansen comes in. There's a lot of opportunity for overlap here. Sunny who show rent beef and Melton and Spaney work, the co-stars of the season, there's a lot of, there's a lot of wind horse finger tea leaves there that make a lot of sense. Then there is the more, so that those are, I would feel confident about all of that. And now we're into the realm of like, oh, you're serious about that. Yes, Kevin Feige has been publicly saying that he's been trying to get Adam Driver to join the MCU for years and he keeps rejecting them. The rumor is that he would play Sebastian Shaw, who is the black team. He would know him from, this is also going to be my favorite year plus of content. Where he'll be like, oh, the 12, a storyline in which even Iceman is considered one of the most powerful mutants ever to live. I guess. Can you explain it to me? Dork? No. I was setting you up to El Parles. There's a stand. It's fine. The direction this is going. Some of you may remember Sebastian Shaw from Kevin Bacon's iconic performance in the role in what was that first class? Yes. Now from Driver, it is a cool character to be considering for a reboot because it does sound like they are avoiding, at least in the near term, redoing Wolverine and redoing Magneto, neither of which are obviously important parts of the methods, but not essential. And they are doing Emma Frost, the white queen who started as a villain, partnered with Sebastian Shaw, the black king. They are the evil mutant overlords of like kind of a freaky Soho House. Yes. What's that? Hellfire club. Hellfire club. I mean, again, I'm not a member, but like Soho House, I imagine, as similar vibes. And then in Grant Morrison's run 25 years ago, Emma Frost became sort of an anti-hero and then full, like, really important part of the team. But the idea of, like, it's more classic Feige to me if like, this is a really strong character that's been on the bench and on the back burner and we can use better for the story we want to tell if it's going to be Sebastian Shaw. Really better than Casting Adam Driver as like Mr. Sinister or something. Yes. I think it was like that. The Wolverine part was into, I did not know that they were holding off on Casting that or holding off on the character or arriving just yet. That's interesting, especially because I would imagine Jackman is going to make several appearances in the upcoming Avengers films. Yes. Now, I have my own thoughts on that. Save them for your sub-step, but I don't think that the Fox X-Men are going to be in that movie very long. I think this is one of your strongest and most accurate takes. I think the first 15 minutes have been put in the trailer, honestly. Yeah. That's a good way of looking at it. If you get Jackman Jacked, he'll be more than him. He'll be more than him. He got to have go snick, snick, a couple of times, right? Yeah, but also, don't you think it's going to be like, oh, no, please can you do that again just for social? I think there's going to be like, oh, the incursion of the multiverse has claimed James Marsden, and also Kelsey Grammer, somehow a huge president wildcat again, somehow Hugh Jackman has returned. Yes. I don't think that's going to be an issue. Okay. But as you know, as a super fan, canonically, Wolverine was not an original member of the X-Men. Yes. Actually, you know, made his first appearance in a Hulk comic. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. I didn't know that. I don't really need to see his whole, like, super soldier Canadian, like skeletal, replacements. The weapon X storyline. I think I got that. Yeah. Yeah. You're good on that. But like, it'll be cool when they finally do cast Robert Pattinson as Wolverine, that'll be awesome. You'll be very happy. There's other rumors, I think, based on some like, like the deep dork web where they're like, well, definitely keen. We'll be a part of this cast as X-23 and I'm like, okay, you've lost me. Even me. Okay. Do you think it's cool not to have Magneto? I think, I mean, I, we got to play a long game, right? Let's do the Professor X casting thing because then I think my answer to it's cool not to have blank is actually my answer to why I think the Sadie Sink reveal and gave me a lot of confidence in this movie. Okay. So let's put a pin in that. So the Professor X rumors circle now around Bill Scarsgard, people will remember his Pennywise from the Ed Films, and as he's kind of always a freak, right? I can't remember what was his name and John Wick for. Oh, did he have a cool name? Yeah, he did. He was Marquis Vincent Bissett to something and that's a cool name. He DeGromont. DeGromont. Bill Scarsgard, Christopher Abbott, who folks may remember from girls, but is now kind of like an established and highly like critically, like a door Indie film and stage actor and is it intervening years. And Tom Pellfree, beloved Tom Pellfree from Ozark and Task are all being tested for have been tested for have read for the most recent and I don't know if any, I mean, who knows about any of this, but the most recent reporting from Jeff Snyder was health freeze out. Okay. But I don't know if we can hold stock in any of this, but there you go. Got to shave the head. Yeah, although McAvoy didn't shave the head in the first movie, but then he did and then it looked very silly. Yes. And Pat Stewart just will not let that chair go. No, he cried out of his fingers cold, but I think that's cool to go for a very young, like this is a young cast that's a young professor X, they can grow old together. You know how this looks, right? I mean, it's right there. It's good to be back. I would say. Because I was like kind of like, it's good to be back. Yeah, come on. You missed it. I, we can just like, there's probably a couple other things to touch on, but like why not say it here before we get into it? Can we just drop the audio? It's fair use, right? Before we talk about Spider-Man, my main takeaway for that film is the thinking man's pause. And finally, they took that joke from us, you know? My main takeaway, and this is, you know, your mileage may vary on whether this is a good takeaway from a massive Spider-Man movie was it gave me faith in what Marvel was going to do with X-Men because of the way that they introduced Jean Grey, the president of the caliber of the actor and the performance, instantly I was like, she's awesome. And she's a star. And she, she has the charisma to hold this movie. There was Stranger Things seasons. The first one. The first one. Yeah. But I had not seen, I was not as familiar with her work, and you had seen her iconic running up the hill moment then. No, nor did I see her in, was it John Proctor plays the villain on stage that you said? My wife adored that performance. She just, it's like, like, the greatest thing she's ever seen. Like, was say, he's seen, cut and done. I think that's awesome. So they, so already they were like working from a place of confidence, but I think the idea of introducing them as kind of, you know, potentially not just feared and misunderstood, but maybe actively hated as terrorists for their behavior and their actions was, it's not radical. There have been chapters of X-Men history that have done that, but I thought that was an interesting and confident commitment for the beginning of that story inside an existing universe that also already has superheroes. Yeah. And people have said this for a while that one of the blessings, one of the many blessings that have been bestowed upon Kevin Feige was actually not having the rights to everyone because it allowed some focus because the idea of some superpowered people are heroes and some are gross and weird. It's like that meme of the person calling HR at her desk, depending on the two people showing up. Like that is hard to square. So this movie actually did a lot of labor. I would say that's true generally about the movie, but it did a lot of labor to differentiate heroic heroes from anti-heroes. I thought it introduced what is the central thesis of X-Men comic books that makes them so powerful for so many generations of readers and viewers is like that idea of like difference and that idea of like being rejected by society for your difference. And being hunted and feared. Yeah. And like I think that they articulated that really well in a Spider-Man movie, which we'll talk about now. It's obviously spoilers for what will probably be the most popular movie in the world this year. Yes. With Dune 3 and Avengers Dune's day receipts still waiting to come in in December. But outpacing the Odyssey and out earning endgame, astonishing. You know, I was just having this conversation with a couple of friends on a text read the other day about like trying to explain obsessions or even to count for the movie obsessions popular. Who's on the text? Sheel. Um, Jalen Brown. John Cruck. Choose carefully. That's fine. Mitch McConnell. I've been very busy. Yeah. All right. No, we were just talking about like, you know, obsession, really good movie. It's astonishing. made half a billion dollars, you know, and how do you account for that? I kind of feel similarly about the Spider-Man movie, which I really liked, but I'm also like, this is the biggest movie of the year, interesting. Like there's not, to me, a, like, it's not like a run out and tell your friends how important it is that they see this superhero movie. - Right. - But I do think it's a testament to the goodwill that the franchise over many iterations, and specifically the Tom Holland franchise has built up that like, there is a repeatable experience people are having in the theater when they go see this movie. And you kind of come out with a little bit of a pep in your step, whether or not you think it's like dark night good or not, like, you're still kind of like, damn, that was like kind of fun to watch and also a little bit surprising here and a little bit thoughtful there. - Well, the level of quality of that franchise is really remarkable over the three iterations and particularly of this one. I would say that it, this might not even be like, this usually doesn't fall into our bailiwick of coverage, but like, it, it, people are seeing a Tom Holland and Zendaya movie as much as they are seeing a Spider-Man movie. I say that from my own household experience where my kids loved it and wanted to see it opening weekend, but I think the emotional engagement, especially for my 13-year-old is like almost entirely like these absolutely beloved and adorable, generally celebrities and the continuation of their story and it was actually, it did my jaded heart good to see that I do think the reaction, I'm sure there are, there's the percentage of the audience which is globally enormous who are like, oh, I really like the, you know, Daniel Desencredin's like renewed commitment to physics when Spider-Man swings into Scorpion really kept me glued to my seat, but really the fact that the moments of tension in the story are, is she gonna remember that they love each other or not? - Sure. - And that the movie essentially punted on that for future movies was incredibly impactful. And so you get to see in real time like a collision of some of the biggest movies of the last few years, like weirdly, and again, I think I'm with you in the sense that I'm like, not like Jason Bateman and Arrested Development, but like her about this movie, only because as a movie, if we're gonna talk about it by its parts, I thought it was fine to good. I don't think it was like earth changing, but it does seem to unite the same fandom that went to see Infinity War and Endgame with the fandom that 30 years ago went to see Titanic in terms of like I wanna see the love story of our time playout. - Yeah. - That is an incredible Venn diagram if you wanna be a successful, if you wanna be successful at the box office. - Did you detect any of the Tom Holland has hit pause on Spider-Man because he was so deeply changed by working on the Odyssey that he wanted to bring some of the lessons of filmmaking that he learned from Christopher Nolan and apply it to Spider-Man? - The moment that made me think of that quote was when early in the film, when Peter goes into a bodega, and he sees Ned for the first time. And he's like, oh my God, my past has come and intersected with my presence. It's a feeling probably Odysseus felt as well as he too stood in front of his non-alcoholic beer brand placed just behind my face in every shot of this scene. Do you know what I mean? Like there was an intention to the artistic purpose in that moment. - You're just a simple man. - Yeah, no, and he's just like, with the part early on where he's like, even my Samsung phone can't find out what's going on. - Yes, yeah. - I mean, I live in the world, I get it. But to answer your question, 100% no. - Yep. - But that doesn't mean it wasn't successful in what it was, but it wasn't that type of movie. I just think that even before he worked on the Odyssey, one of the hallmarks of this franchise has been its willingness to have the types of human moments in both performance and in script that are often the first things edited out. And like, just as a small moment, like, Gene searching for VMAX, and it's just the last thing our sister saw. It's been a fascinating case study because I think that was a lovely little script moment. Like, that was a nice thing. That had some nice emotional resonance and payoff. And then I do think there's a portion of the audience that's just like, what did that mean? 'Cause there's not used to things aren't being handled. - It was quite full commentary on Easter at Culture. - Exactly. - And I thought it was like-- - Well said. - Not mean, not like a rug pole, but it was like sometimes in life, this kind of thing happens where you think something is important and it turns out to just be something somebody saw on a billboard or whatever. You know, I take note that you like to those human moments between Zendaya and Tom Holland just because-- - Just Chris Hansen here. - As a amateur transporter of like who rewrote what and credit, credited or uncredited screenwriters. Justin Kritsky's who wrote queer and challengers and is a very much like a screenwriter/dujure and like very popular. - On the rise. - It was brought in to do some re-write work on this screenplay and apparently part that he worked on the most were the Aunt May talking to Tom and the bedroom and then Jean later and then some of the stuff between Zendaya and Tom Holland, but like specifically the stuff on Punisher's boat house. - We're gonna get to him. - And I thought you could tell that it had a lived in sensitivity that maybe some of the other stuff did not. - I would say that that was also separate apart from whatever working re-arrangement everyone had. Like that strikes me as incredibly healthy franchise management. Chris McKenna and Eric Summers, who are the credited writers on all three of the John Watts spider mentality. - It's a community too, right? - Also from the world of community from comedy writing. Have the script credit for this movie as well, but they have not even been shy about like, like when Daniel Cretten has been interviewed about the movie, he's like, well Justin and I were working on this on set and Justin was on set. So Justin came on and was the screenwriter on set, which is a much more contemporary thing to happen in these franchise movies to constantly rewriting. Again, I don't have no idea about what was cut or what was added or what the working relationship was like, but that strikes me as very healthy in that you have the people who carry the DNA of the franchising of these characters to this point, but it is intentionally a pivot and it's a largely successful, certainly financially, completely successful pivot into what the next few of these movies might be like. So having a different tone, tonally different screenwriter on set works. - Are you excited to visit New York City sometime in the next six to 12 months go to a show, go to a play, look at Playbill and see, was briefly possessed by Jean Grey and Spider-Man brand new day as a credit for 85 theater actors. - I thought you were going to say to go to New York and look around for my favorite chippy because I'm actually in Glasgow by accident. Like that, I thought would be. - There was a kind of, I thought there was a nice kind of almost musicality to what it was essentially the major kind of villainy of the movie, which was gene processing. It was awesome. - That was awesome. It was cool. It was also, I feel like, you know, I'm all about me a cult that was on this podcast. Like, we were so close in that every time we talked about this movie and then post trailers, I was like, well, I just, I don't know what the movie is. I don't know who the villain is. Anyway, Sadie Sinks clearly playing Jean Grey, but I did not have the creative imagination to make that jump that she would be the villain. And maybe that's a kudos to the filmmakers because that was a very bold choice. - Yeah. - To make the villain of this highly anticipated movie, not just a new character, not just a new character played by a young actor, but a new character played by a young actor that is also going to be the linchpin of an entirely new franchise. That's a lot on some slim shoulders, but it worked because it was surprising. And as you said, the way that they visualized her power was unique and visually interesting. And then also to your other point, what happens at the end hints at why this level of power in someone unpredictable and unreliable is terrifying, as opposed to, I mean, this kid got bitten by a spider, but he can't within one thought take out all of Manhattan. - Yeah, and I think that the reason why I've always responded to the X-Men as well is because I do think that to a person all of their powers or curses, you know? And that's not always been the case with the Avengers kind of era of superheroes that we've had in the movies. And especially the later period stuff where it became a lot of like, I am so, I just shoot beams of light out. Like I'm just like, and you're like, I don't even know what you're doing. - Like even Scarlett, which her power is, what are, like, man on the street challenge? What can she do? - And what can she do? - What can she do? - You know, what can she do? That's beautiful. - All of the X-Men are like kind of crippled by their own, their own, their own specialness. And it's like, it was cool to see them dramatize gene early on as being somebody who is sometimes only have, has like the most loosest control over what she's capable of. - And again, and people around her who are trying to provoke her to be even bigger or smaller than the, which she actually is. And I think that when Fiege's MCU has been its most successful. successful has been a sense of cherry picking, the canonical biographical aspects of characters that work best for the most successful screen version of the character, which is a long way of saying, I think I kind of remembered vaguely that Gene had a sister, but that is not historically like a foundational part for this person is. - That was really neat of me. - And that was really smart. It was just a smart, they found it, they identified it and they made it better for the story that they're choosing to tell. - That's felt like we got in and out. The sister, a rest and power, but it was not a belabored thing. Now I don't remember, I don't think I knew anything about Sarah Gray. - No, I don't think you did either. I say that as your friend, and I'll say to a court of law and I'll say it to these date line cameras. You never knew her. You never visited her and that wasn't your burner. - Yeah, yeah. - But it was, I'm curious your thoughts on this because you are more actively, not just a movie watcher, but you talk about movies more and contemporary movies. And I think generally like the bill of fare of what movies need to do these days is just enormous and groaning to accomplish everything. Character level, franchise management, setting up the next one, all that. So there is no more like elegant shape to a 3X structure really. That said, I was a little bit thrown in the watching of it that the third act of a Spider-Man movie, which are, I know the sentence saying to say, but are relatively precious and that it's been five years since the last one, was this detour into the backstory of a different franchise's lead who is also the villain of this one. It was a momentum surprise. - I wonder whether or not that's a very comfortable place for everybody who's involved in this to be because I think there is some disappointment that we've had three Spider-Man and, you know, I didn't go back through and rewatch all those movies. So I don't know where they go. They've obviously introduced some iconic villains. - I mean the previous trilogies. - Yeah, the previous trilogies. But he's obviously the best person suited to be the new Tony Stark as it in terms of, I can drop by for a couple of scenes or I can give this person a great platform to emerge. - Right. - But I don't know beyond the, like Peter MJ stuff. - Yeah. - What, and with great power comes great responsibility. Like I don't really know what they want to do with that character. And it might just be that he is the ultimate locker room presence and the ultimate vibes guy. - Yes. - And what they can do is basically shadow pilot, backdoor pilot, the X-Men. - Now what's amazing about that, and you picked up on is that is kind of the role that the character has played in the comics for many years. I mean, there was, it's not just a cartoon that was called like Spider-Man and his amazing friends. There was a long-running comic in the 80s called Marvel Teamup that was Spider-Man and Blank. And it was just a chance to like give other characters shine because they would inevitably hang out with him or cross paths with him. I thought the greatest success of the movie separate and apart from the charisma of the leads was it's real knowledge of and celebration of the idea that this character particularly played by this actor is the heart and soul of this massive corporate project. - Yes. - That like, and that he plays that role both in terms of our connection to it in the real world but also within the world, everybody loves him for a reason. Like the city loves him. Buck and Punisher loves him. And that when anyone ever, anyone plays in his sandbox, they're in his story and servicing the type of story that he tells, which is basically a selfless and generous and kind story, which is not always the case for X-Men and Punisher or whatever. And I agree with other critics. I know the Midnight Boys are saying this as well that of all of the Spider-Man media, which there's been quite a lot. This movie got closest to the comic book tone of this guy every day being like Wednesday, man. And on a Wednesday, he may fight Tombstone and put Scorpion back in jail and then also be late on his rent. And then like, that is the nature of the character that there is just this rogue's gallery in this constant, like, time to make the donuts of being this under-appreciated hero. Now, historically in the comics, he isn't also part of the deep police state with surveillance cameras on every corner. But, you know. - Didn't you hear AOC said, "Woke one is over." You can't, you can't get mad at Spider-Man. - Well, also Tony Stark's gone. So he had to partner with Palantir for whomever, you know, for his latest tag. - He's a much better, like, basically, like, keystone of a world because he's so like you said. Like, he's just so engaging and he is so likable. It's almost like Iron Man is actually like a testament to Downey's charisma. - Yes. - 'Cause Iron Man himself is an alcoholic arm's dealer. You know? - Yeah. - I'm sorry, is that bad? - I'm just saying, that's what realistic. But it is, let's say two other things I wanted to talk to you about. - Yeah, I can guess one. - One is the whole, like, I'm turning into a spider plot one of this, which I thought, if they'd done that before? - In the comics many times. - Okay. - But only in the last, like, 20, 30 years, and some of that storyline, you may remember from Madam Webb. - I do. - That's it. - Like, that's the villain in that iconic piece of cinema, I think, was part of a time they told the story, just like, I am the original spider man, in which I am more spider than man, and there would be many of us. There was an actor who, I don't feel like we should name him because I hope he has a beautiful career, you know? I feel like he was, there was a lot of ADR in his performance. - That was probably the least successful part of it for me. I think, although pretty cool when he fought the ninjas. - This is why you work on both sides of the aisle. - Yeah. But I wanted to talk about Burnthaw. - Yeah, I would just agree with you about, like, the mutation plot worked as a thematic metaphor for the story and a way to get Hulk involved and stuff, but like, that is, spider man becoming a, like, that is the least interesting, the least interesting versions of the character for me, they've now done both. One is in which he's like, I shall become a spider, and the other one is I shall become Iron Man in a space suit that also shoots webs. - Yeah. - It's just a dude, man. - Yeah. - That's what makes him good. What makes the punters so good? Okay. - No, I'm asking you. - Let's talk about it. I was, I gotta say, I was pretty shocked that how much this would became like a two-hander between Telemachus and Menelais, because the way the movie-- - The Menelais. - Menelais, I don't think it's like a house. - I think in the movie they're like Menelais. - On the movie they're also like, that's coming home soon. So-- - Fair point. - Fair point. - I was thinking, sorry, he's Emily Wilson walks in, she's like, you know how this looks, right? (laughing) See where we combine the threads? - Not on web. - Dad's actually not coming home soon. (laughing) - That's exactly right. - When he shows up at the beginning, and like he webs his mouth when he's about to say the f-word and they're doing the tank chase or whatever, I was like, oh, they're doing this frantic friendly neighborhood Spider-Man thing and that might be the extent of his role in this film. That was not the case. So I was pretty surprised. I would say that it was a good choice of bench management to be like, we have a great actor, we have a great character, that you might not expect to be the team up, but in this brand new day, if you will, these are the sort of people that he's dealing with. So I thought that aspect of it was fun. I need you to talk me through the burnthal of it, because maybe it's just over exposure, but I need him. I love him, not as much as you, but I love him. I need a different color from his paint box. - Well, I think you're probably, did you watch the Punisher like film that he made? - Well, the short film that he made with Renaldo Marcus Greene, I did watch it. And it is shocking that that character is also this character, but that's what's cool. - I agree, it's definitely amusing to imagine people being like, what else can I watch from the Punisher? (laughing) - Truly, yeah, because I never thought, you know, maybe this is the future that they wanted for us, but I never expected my 13 year old to say the words, I really like the Punisher. - Yeah, tell me more about Frank Kessel. - Like Phoebe Bridger's album, please. - Sure, yeah, like is he in danger of self-parity? I suppose any actor who goes big like that is, am I partially to blame for that possibly? You know, like- - I appreciate your willingness to- - Is the constant, you know, in vocation of a year's old Baltimore police, you know, detective that he played, helping matters, probably not, you know? - Especially because I would say the percentage of people for whom this is their first encounter with, you know, big time burnthal. - Uh-huh. - I would say, it's much more people saw this than saw we on the city, despite our efforts on this. - I thought he was delightful in this movie. I do think it's pretty fucking crazy that the entire film hinges on Punisher nearly assassinating Jean Grey with a sniper rifle. - Yes, and instead of blowing out Peter Parker's fucking liver. - Yeah. - And then Jean Grey is just like, breathe with me. She's like doing the same doctrine you did after you saw House for a season. - Yeah. - Where she's like, you'll be fine, I'll just breathe. - She does, she does do the Neo like, just start pumping your heart again, stuff. - That's cool. That was pretty vivid. Um, and he also gets off Scott free. Yeah, he's got hesitation privileges at the hospital. They're like, who could possibly have shot this guy? I know. And also who possibly could have shot upwards of 65 people in a series of abandoned warehouses in the Bronx recently? So that's not Staten Island that they keep referring to. Staten Island is where he lost his family. No, Staten Island is, I think people are people you were saying, like kudos to people for knowing VMAX is just what it is. It was just a runner. Oh, okay, it was just a gag about a shared history that these characters had that determined their dynamic. Do you think they'll make more standalone Spider-Man? Yes, with Tom Holland. Yes, with Zendaya. Uh, yeah, because they're married. So it's probably since like now. Also, how many days did Zendaya do on this movie versus the Odyssey? This is a funny thing about all these actors who have got five movies this year is she's kind of only barely in two of them. Yes, she's incredible in the drama. Did you see the drama? No, it just hit Streamy. I'm going to watch it. Uh, she's, she's wonderful in the drama and she's wonderful for you. She's good in everything. I have no notes. But yes, I think that Spider-Man brand new day and the Odyssey. While she's good in both it seems like she was there for like a couple of. She was very good in her limited scenes and the show and the show. The movie pops when they are together. And it was the smart play to guarantee that whatever the next movie is, it will be as big as this one to delay their reunion. That said, it is just sort of interesting. Maybe we're behind on this. We're just noticing it because it's the biggest movies and the biggest stars. But we are still carrying, I imagine. I know I am this sense that like when you go to do a movie, it's like we've all seen the apocalypse now documentary. It's just like, I guess I'm going to be in Thailand for six months with a lunatic changing his mind. Right. Like that is not the era of filmmaking we're in anymore. And instead it's like a series of days in Atlanta and a series of days in London, or Tunisia or wherever, and they and they wrap you out. And and certainly stars of that caliber are able to do that. And it certainly did help that she's, this is the these are the movies in which they fell in love and that her husband has complete creative control over. So I'm sure it wasn't like a hardship. They enjoy it. It's pushing big NA on people pushing. Yeah, once again, these celebrities. But I but it I don't know. I did leave the movie being like that was all she did. Yeah, yeah, but it's fine. It is a it's a sign of a successful franchise. I guess that they didn't act like this was going to be their only time making it even though it may have been because the scene when the three friends are reunited has the same spark that the first three movies did. And I am not so jaded that I wasn't like this is a wonderful fun to see these three young actors playing off each other again. Yes. And it and it was very stingy with that. So in the future, they're just going to like get to know him again. I don't know. I mean, I think the fun of the ending. And again, I think like we should give credit to Daniel Dustin credit and directed it and the screenwriters who wrote it because there there was heart and intention in it. Like despite the things that like the boxes had to tick and the fight scenes or whatever, like I did think they thought cleverly about how to bring in May back. And what it would mean in the moments that they did or and to leave on a moment of you know, in the redditor era where people are like, well, no, clearly Ned remembers now and the spell is broken because Mifisto is too busy, you know, harvesting iron heart soul to no. It's just like that was a nice moment because either the spell is broken or it's just like a moment of you're the guy from the other night and are we free or whatever it is. That should be enough. It is enough. But but how they're going to integrate it does make me think that those characters likely won't be in battle world in secret of end your secret works in battle world. I would say I would say with respect. Jacob Babylon is probably available for and would like to be in yeah, in battle world. My guess is no. Okay. Do you have any tea? Do you feel like you've been also silenced on the fact that there is a strong, there's a strong take on the internet that the Hulk has been dispatched. We will never see Mark Ruffalo again because he has been too outspoken about Palestine. I didn't see that take. I imagine he has been silenced. Well, he'd be in the movies coming up. Yeah, I am fairly sure that he didn't do the press not because of his outspoken political views, but because he is in Passy Young right now getting eaten alive on the skewers and that considering again, like how totally fine it is to fly to Glasgow for four days and be like, Oh, no, it's happening again. And then they draw him in the rest of the morning, like me when I'm mad. I think it's okay. And I think he'll be on, I think he'll be on battle world, baby. Let's get to another battle world, hot D. Yeah. S three finale. Great, great, literally great, great, great. I long said, yeah, there's no lock on this door. You're free to leave Shawshank whenever you want. No, the only prison I'm in, I'm the jailer. Trapping it up here. Where do I want to start with you with this? I want to start with you go. I mean, I want to know. I think that my appreciation for this show is greatly aided by podcasting with the wonderful Joanna and Mallory, you get context. And so I get context. I think I also got drawn into the lore more this year and while I did not read the source material, I've done a lot of, you know, no, you're like the guy in college, you're the kicking and screaming, you don't read the novels, you read the criticism. I, I ran a lot of like, you know, supplemental texts to aid my understanding of, of what was going on. I don't think that was smart because I think it would have been better to go into this as I guess you probably did being surprised by outcomes. If that such thing were possible. Well, yes and no. I mean, there's a level of surprise that is not veering into wonder that actually speaks to my, I think, deep disinterest in this show and the world that it's attempted to build in the sense that like this episode opens with Renera getting news of Agons. Just back proof of life. Yeah. And I was like, is she happy about that or sad? Like that was my level of like remembering who cares about when she instantly bursts into tears and starts screaming. Where did that convince you that she was sad? No, frankly, because it's just like another day in the office. Why don't you get on the grill and cook a little bit here about how you felt about the finale. But now that we've reached the end of this third season. I mean, look, I think it's, it's, it's the, it's the, it's the same conversation we had about the season premiere now in the B side of it in that the show at its, I'm sad to say, I would have said at its best. But I think the third episode showed that there's a different version somewhere inside of here that they could have explored ahead. They've been able to or had they got started on a different creative foot. But other than that, other than that, like, Zag, I think the show is at its best, a series of dots on a timeline. And with some spackle. And so this was another significant dot. I don't think it's the sign of a successful show. Certainly a mass market show that I can watch it with admittedly, like the mindset and attitude of a deep casual at this point and be like, half of what's happening this episode could have happened at the midpoint of the season. Yeah. And then the secondary follow up to that is, well, at least if they were stalling, because all shows manipulate time and audience interest. I mean, that is the nature of serialized storytelling in this medium. At least where the diversions worth it are memorable. And I have to say, I don't think they were ultimately. Like, if you think about how at the beginning of the season, we were pointing out things like, here's a promising strand. Here's a promising strand. And at least in this season, we seem to be able to focus on them. And one of the promising strands was Kristen Cole and Gwayne being like, fog of war friends. But halfway through the season, Kristen Cole is like, we'll be real with you. I'm on a suicide mission dog. And Gwayne's like, okay, peace. And then Kristen Cole gets got. Yeah. Or really one person is like, hmm, I've reacting to that news. Yeah. And then, and then it's like, Oh, Laris and Aegon, we're going to get a road trip for the ages between these two, and then as soon as there's an army coming, Laris is like, so you're committed to this then. All right. See ya, you know, like that feels like watching a watching other people play chess in the park as opposed to being on the board with them. And that's a bummer. And that's separate apart from my reaction to other specific things that happen in this episode. It's interesting you bring those two different things up. They were among my, if not my favorite. I mean, Laris and Aegon actually was one of my favorite threads of the season. And then primarily because of the actors though, I think that the reason why I reacted so strongly to episode three, which is the one that shot almost entirely from Reneer's POV or at least her experiential kind of understanding of what's happening around her was so refreshing was because it offered the show a like different feel in a different tempo and a different look. But B, it was an editorial decision. It was like curation of experience. Someone is making something. And I made this point last night to to Mal and Joe. And I don't think I made it very well. But I, I feel like this episode could have really benefited from the same kind of like, honestly, like pretty cutthroat treatment of Allison in this episode where they're like, she shows up in the last 30 seconds to be like, I feel a disturbance in the force. And that's because that character, probably was not with any other characters that she would have a conversation worth hearing about. But I don't know necessarily that I feel like a lot of the conversations that happen at various points in this episode had to happen as many times as they did. I felt like there was a lot of repetition of statement of intent, statement of like allegiance, whatever it is. And I think that this gets still a little bit maybe of the source material stuff. You know, the Game of Thrones series is adapted from a series of novels that are written from the perspective of very specific characters. I think that that is one of the great acts of adaptation that I've ever seen, frankly. I mean, like what they did with those books and regardless of how you feel about the end of it, that's the last season of it, to make you feel, to make, I think equally, people who have never read the books and have no idea what's gonna happen next and people who've been waiting years to see the things that are about to happen take place to equally satisfy those two parties is a really amazing act. But I think part of the reason why a lot of stuff in House the Dragon winds up falling maybe a little flatter for you than it does for me, but not super 100% successful for me is because it's being adapted from this very odd source material. And a lot of the events that have transpired and will transpire are, and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened. But they're not necessarily evidently about family or about, or personal transformation or growth or learning or, for things you need, the things that TV shows are made of. And they went through great lengths to try and establish that by having a younger cast play, Renira and Allison in the beginning of season one, they went to great lengths to establish character stakes by putting various people at Harren Hall, dreaming their lives away with Allison, Kristen Kohl's kind of like, you know, road to nowhere. And like they've tried to do the work. And I do think when I talk about it with Mal and Joe, I'm definitely like, oh, like this is really, there will be moments where like Damon talks to Renira and Hyvalyrian, and that's when he's trying to encounter, to see herself as this God thing. And like there are good flourishes in this show, but I think there's something very static and a very kind of like, reportorial about it. - It's infuriating. For example, there's a version of Renira and Emma Darcy's performance is exceptionally strong during doing a lot of thankless things for the back half of the season. But there's a version of the character of Renira who's mission and whose goal is to honor the legacy of her father who was a good king and trying to be like him, but it's frustrated in that ambition. The version of the character we have on House of the Dragon is one who's reduced to shouting Reddit prophecies to everyone to justify all for behavior. Congratulations. Not to you, but I just mean like, but that is kind of infuriating. If you are pointing to a larger canon or a link to the other series in order to justify behavior that really only makes sense in a history book about like, man, everybody was crazy, you're in trouble. Well, you're speaking to about like, what it's lacking in relation to other shows is the feeling that we need from film entertainment of both emotional investment and the possibility of surprise. Not, there are very few Tony Gilroy's, you know, but if you look at what he did with Andor, which is also a story that had an ending that he was writing toward and how when he stepped into the series development process, he was like, no, we're just not gonna do that. We're not gonna do the obvious thing where we start the marble here and then we just roll it down. We are going to tell a story about a rebellion and we're going to use this track in ways that you would never expect to get there and suddenly you care about characters and within the creation there are characters that have their own mini arcs that give us some meaning and sustenance. My biggest frustration about the show is that it shares this deeply nihilistic worldview that Game of Thrones ultimately shared that I think thinks it's smart but is honestly fucking stupid. And particularly in the case of this show and I'm sorry it's a little bit gloves off 'cause I found this episode so infuriating and ultimately the season may be more infuriating because it gave us evidence of, look, we actually have a lot of life and spark here in some cast and in some creativity and in some production design that we can show you when we're allowed to. So it's almost like I'm feeling harsher because of episode three. But if the fundamental belief of the show is that, guess what, both sides are bad. That's not actually as galaxy brain as you think it is. That's actually kind of nihilistic and just deeply unsatisfying. So both sides are bad. We're not rooting for everyone and death and ruin comes to them all at the end. What are we watching for? And I'm not saying we need some glimpse of hope that like, what's his name? Not all for the other one. Hughes, well maybe he will have a happy ending. It's like, well, literally no one gets happy ending because that's still somehow the currency of the land is that everything sucks. So in the big finale, there was a moment when the big crazy guy from the north is banging a shield and they're all banging their shields. And I was like, well, this at least is trying to give us some sense of cultural otherness or place that these are the warriors who do this thing and the thing that they do has this effect on people and it's not just running towards people until Dragon Fire makes them run the other way. And I was like, that's kind of interesting. And then it culminated in him just having like a few good moments of, you know, I don't want to get Chris Hansen in here again, but using his sword on Orman before he laughs at the Dragon Fire and gulping them both. I'm like, man, I really hope James Norton enjoyed his time in Leavesden, you know? Like, the catering on studio I can attest to. It has a really, there are some really nice options. Because otherwise, what are we doing? You know, again, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Like, they got a good actor to like have a little bit of a prissy personality and do something else. A season long villain arc is not a season long villain arc in rooms until he gets stabbed up the butt. It's like, okay, I mean, they're that way. There are worse ways to make a living, you know? But there are better ways. But there are maybe better ways uses of our time or uses of our actors. I just found that so all of the carnage and all of the, all of the intensity and the violence being amped up to hide the fact that there's nothing else there. So that even that what the season appeared to be chasing was Damon, who is a one dimensional monster, wandering around the fog of war, being like, damn, maybe we went too far. I'm like, I don't believe you. He's also a girl dad though. Okay, now now can we lean in and talk about what's interesting to me? The choice to make it about the Targaryens, I think the, like the court of George R. Martin has proved me wrong. Like I have sounded this sort of note where I've said, that's not actually the most interesting thing about my experience, Westeros is not the Targaryens. They're arrival, they're conquest of the world, they're various insane kings, a couple of the good ones, they're fascination with flying nuclear weapons and their inability to control them. Like I think that that was so much more interesting to me as a product of myth and history and the series Game of Thrones than it is in practice in House the Dragon. And I actually think that's probably as good as dragons can look like on screen. You know what I mean? Like in terms of executing something, the reason why this show takes two years to get on the air is probably because it takes a long time to get the dragons to look as good as they do. And for the battle scene like Templeton to be executed the way it is. And I hate doing this, I hate being like, the show should be about Christian Cole. But like a show that was about the bastards and broken things beneath those powerful people is a more interesting story than me then. The challenge of talking about the show season to season and I imagine it's frustrating to some of our listeners is that it does all come down to the original sin, you know. And we were, maybe we'll talk about it more detail next week, but I'm so fascinated by what FX did with the show adults because basically John Landcraft, the head of the network was like, I believe in the show, but we screwed up the beginning. We're gonna make a secret new prologue pilot as a Mulligan. That rarely happens and it certainly couldn't really happen with a show like this. But it is all stemming from that original decision because there are interesting things here. But you also have to consider, if you're considering the fake history that George R. Martin wrote, you also have to consider the history of Warner Bros. discovery and what it was before that. And the failed's been off, they tried to get off the ground and had they needed to have some dragon content on the air to continue to justify all the other shows that they were making and the decision to make something that felt safer because it started with where the other one ended, which is dragons, like you begin to have some understanding of that. Like it is a much harder sell and a much tougher to explain to your executives as well as your boardroom that like, so in this history there's a character named Sir Ulf who likes to drink and what his decision making swings history and we're going to tell that story. Now, I'm not saying that I could do it. I'm not saying that any screenwriter alive could have pitched that successfully, let alone pulled it off. But that is so interesting and it is the eighth best expressed thing in this finale. Like he's a drunk and he's pissed off at everyone but they gave him a nuclear weapon and look what happens because of it. Like that is compelling and when you're making the show I'm sure the people making it were like at least we got to do that too in addition to everything else. But that's not the focus and so it feels really disappointing, I think, because of that. - I'm glad that there's multiple like, if you're gonna do Game of Thrones the way they're doing it, I'm glad that David. have chosen to do this "And Night of the Seven Kingdoms" and that, I mean, I know that Aegon's conquest is being rumored to start shooting next year, I think. It sounds like they're very serious about that, as a movie, but I still, I remain fascinated by this television experiment to bring this stuff to life and the conflict between the source material and the actual stuff on screen. - What's, what's the name of Zenos character? Miss, what's your name? - Sorry, yeah. - Yeah. - What an arc. - What a legendary arc this season. Someone finally comes up to our tears in their eyes. Sarah, Sarah, you must go to Pentos. And she's like, no, my place is here for no apparent reason. But sometimes I sleep with the queen. Can we just say, in the 14 years that we've broadcasted, this wacky medium of television has taken us to some outlandish places? - Sure. - Recently, we went to Venus where it turns out we shouldn't have landed in Star City. - Yes. It definitively told us that. - I would say of everywhere we've ever been and everywhere I've had to spend time for television, I think there is no place worse than Heron Hall. Like, it is borderline insane to me. I mean, maybe they had the standing sets and they had to amortize them over another season or something. But like, emerging from such like a lethargic prison box where Matt Smith, a compelling charismatic actor, is just yelling at a tree for half of the season. Then you just take another character and put him back there and everyone who shows up there to dream. Kissing my mom. No, my brother's here. I'm like, - Well, he was actually there. - He really was there. Didn't know that at first. But he was there. Tom Glincarnes having the time of his life in that scene and I pepped up at that moment. I appreciated that scene a lot. But like, can you, man of the people, bastard and broken thing. Can you explain Ellis Rivers to me? Can you just-- - Yeah, she's like Melisandre. - So she's a magic lady. She's a lady who made like a deal. It's like a lowercase devil. Like she made-- - Mifista. - 'Cause she tried to, was a keeper kid alive. - Right. - And it didn't work. - No. - But the price she paid for using magic was like she could never leave her in all. And it's like basically keeping her alive, but she can't leave. And so she's trying to bring people to her in all, like to have more babies, to have babies who are gonna be powerful. - Right. - Correct the institutional wrongs done to her. - It's just a bummer. If you have a friend that won't get their house-- - I don't think you're sincerely listening. - No, I'm listening, but I'm like, if you have a friend that won't leave the house, then you gotta have other friends. You can't always go over to their place. - It's true. - You can't do it. So, where are you? Where are you? - I'm fine. I was sufficiently entertained by like the tumbled in battle and like the sort of the things that got checked off the board and what's to come. It's not coming back until 28, man. - I just, I think I was really worked up and like respect to the show and like a classic-- - This pissed me off way. - Way, 'cause I just thought that the pointless savagery of the end just struck me as very cynical. Because why? - The Elena Parter, the just the battle. - No, I didn't even care about that. Like the, oh, the butterflies are fleeing because a magic girl jumped out of a window. I have no, I do not care about this character. I, she was, she was knitting more prophecy. - It's cool. - That's cool. (laughing) - It's like a new, new supreme drop. Like Renier is gonna wear that, you know? Exclusive piece. Speaking of a supreme drop. - Yeah. - Helena. - You get that? - No, it's just in terms of like do, we don't use, I don't wanna use the word earn too much, but I'm just like, give me some presents or stakes here other than another piece on this board to get to where we'll get in 2028. - Yes. - And. - Well, you're, like I said. - I'll say it's just risky business to have a show that feels like so, so, so claustrophobic and then have a major plot point be how someone can't leave a place. (laughing) Just maybe that's why I'm reacting to this problem. - We can wrap it up there. I do wanna talk about adults. It's a second season is coming soon, but that's an interesting industry story and it's interesting TV story. So maybe we can file that with like our Thursday roundup of stuff, thanks to Kayakai and Sarah for producing us today. Thanks to you. - Are you, do you wanna go check out the shards or what you don't know yet? - Reviled, critically. - That makes me, that makes me interested. I'm listening. - Okay. - No, I mean, I, I-- - You've been actually, while the cat was away, the mouse-- - Mouse was watching television. - Smash Tivo, he watched, you watched a little bit of sterling point 'cause I mentioned it to you. Have you, you have not watched the shards? - No. - You watched the adults prequel. - You're up on the, on Furious. - Very up, all the way up. - Okay. - Fat Joe and Remy Ma all the way up. - Okay. - You love it when I, I know that you, it terms you when I-- - That's a very current reference, yeah, that's good. (laughing) - As opposed to-- - I sat on the fact that all season, Tumbleton makes me think of the push of T-Track, Brambleton. (laughing) I sat on that until the end of this episode. - It's for, it's for the real heads who get to the very, very, very last seconds. - And that's for Kayakai. - Thanks very much guys. We'll see you on Thursday. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)