WTF is going on at Netflix? BEST OF TANGOTI

This is an I Heart podcast guaranteed human. When is the win? Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford show. This is a place for raw unfills or conversations with athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more behind the scenes, follow @cliford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side, a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T.W.O. percent on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On the look back at a podcast, the next thing to me that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J and I'm Alex Egrich. Each episode we pick you here, unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians and favorite artists like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild, I mean, wild. Wild, yeah. If I don't think there's a more important year for Black people. Listen to look back at it on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it was good. You're listening to learn the hard way with your favorite therapists and host care games. 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This episode was filmed while I was on medical bed rest so it might sound a little bit different in terms of sound quality than the rest of our episodes. There are no girls on the internet as a production of I Heart Radio and Unboss Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this is There are no girls on the internet. There's a lot going on at Netflix. For the first time in over a decade, the streaming service lost subscribers. Netflix lost about 200,000 subscribers. We were originally expected to gain 2.5 million. And they also said that they expect to lose 2 million more subscribers in the second quarter. So who is Netflix blaming for this poor showing? Us, the viewers for sharing passwords. But Gizmodo spoke to media analyst Michael Patcher who is pretty dubious of the idea that sharing passwords is to blame, saying it's just the dumbest idea whatsoever. Intidence of password sharing did not grow materially during the quarter. They've always known about it, he said. And Netflix pretty much agreed. The company acknowledged that a letter to investors that account sharing as a percentage of our paying membership hasn't changed much over the years. So as Oprah might say, what is the truth? Netflix laid off 150 staffers, about 2% of the United States workforce, many of whom are Black, Brown, Queer, and Trans staffers who were specifically corded from other jobs to lead initiatives that champion inclusion at Netflix. They also gutted popular programs like Strong Black Lead, a vertical for Black content, which is often held up as a shining example of how to market and build community around inclusive content. Other verticals that focus on content specifically for marginalized communities were also gutted by layoffs like the Latinx focused contoto, Asian American focused golden, and the LGBTQ focus vertical most. Now it's unclear what will happen to these initiatives or to inclusive content at Netflix going forward. But the company may have given us a little bit of a hint in a recent update to their culture memo, which basically says if staffers don't want to associate with offensive content they may put out, they should just quit. It says, if you find it hard to support our content threats, Netflix may not be the best place for you. Now this is probably a reference to content like Dave Chappelle's Netflix comedy special that led the staff walkouts and turmoil last fall. B. Pagels minor, a black trans then pregnant Netflix employee who was fired when the company accused them of leaking the fact that Netflix paid Dave Chappelle 24.1 million dollars for its comedy special that included transphobic content. B gave us lots of good insight into the culture at Netflix. So let's revisit our conversation from this past fall. After the release of Dave Chappelle's new comedy special, the closer on Netflix Netflix staffers and their ally spoke up about the specials transphobic material and organized a walkout. Chappelle doubled down in a newly released clip where he said Netflix staff that they wanted a safer work environment, but that he's the only one who's not able to get into the building at Netflix anymore. But you want to know someone who most definitely cannot get back into the Netflix building? B. Pagels minor, a very pregnant black transformer program manager who Netflix fired for alleging they were the source of a Bloomberg article about just how much money Netflix spent on the special. Now be it disputes this as do their co-workers and even after be was fired Bloomberg continues to publish new internal metrics from Netflix making it even more unlikely. B. along with Tara Field, a trans Netflix senior software engineer who was suspended for tweeting critically about the special have filed suits with the National Labor Relations Board saying that Netflix engaged in activity to quell employees from speaking up about working conditions, including seeking to create a safe and affirming work environment, speaking up about Netflix products and the impact its product choices have on the LGBTQ community and providing support for employees whom Netflix has treated in an unlawful and disparate manner. And as much as Dave Chappelle keeps talking about how he's being canceled, you know, naturally as one does from a massive stage and one of a massive adoring audience while earning millions for it. The demands of the Netflix staffers who walked out do not include asking Netflix to take down the comedy special instead Netflix staffers are asking for things like comparable investment in trans and non binary led projects at Netflix and more trans and non binary people in leadership positions. Be as clear that this is about so much more than one comedy special. So my name is B Pagels minor my pronoun they then there's in my current title is growing a baby. And that's about it. So I read your Washington Post piece and I read the piece on your blog both of which really talked about this journey for you really kind of fully ingraced in who you are. And I guess one of my questions for you was like what was it like to feel seen in that way, you know, to share this truth about yourself like where did you feel seen working at Netflix was this something that you know felt I felt like a good fit. Yeah, you know, it's really interesting because I would say yes and no right so like in terms of the internal environment and Netflix. I definitely felt like I had a lot of support to be a black person a trans person a lesbian you know loud you know someone who distanced very loudly things like that. But one of the complaints I've always had and something that obviously is coming up here is the lack of content. So it was so strange to be like this internal employee feel pretty validated feel pretty supported. But then when I looked at the things on screen I didn't see anything that looked like me and that cognitive dissonance was one of the things that bothered me most about working there right you know I really wanted to say like you know that's the first off the Mississippi they are black actually majority of Mississippi is black right majority of Mississippi is also rural you know why don't we have shows about that I watch P Valley last year and it was so funny to my friends are like P Valley doesn't seem like your type of show. I was like it's about this about black people Mississippi I was so excited. I was like I finally get to see people who are like my family who grew that I grew up around. I was always like that then a little bit of like yes I feel good because I have great benefits and a great salary I get to be loud I'm doing some of the best work of my life. But no because I really feel like we're missing the mark on showing representative lives of diverse types of people. Conversations around identity and representation at Netflix did not start with Dave Chappelle internally Netflix staffers have been pushing these conversations about whose story gets told and by who and how for years. Like many companies Netflix has employee resource groups or ERG's employee lead initiatives within a company that work to create inclusivity along certain demographics and identities. There's dream at Netflix to champion immigrant representation. Black at Netflix, the high M at Netflix for Jewish representation. Vectlix, preventive representation, indigenous at Netflix, and more. Transstar is the ERG that champions trans identity in representation at Netflix, that be helps lead. And after the release of the film Girl, a 2019 Belgian film about a trans ballet dancer that faced criticism for its depiction of things like body dysmorphia and self-harm in the trans community. It's so easy for people to think that these conversations happening internally around Netflix and the content they produce, sort of the way that the content represents or does not represent all folks, you know, trans identities, all of that. It's easy to think that those conversations began and ended with this Dave Chappelle special. But we know that's not true. Can you give me a little bit of a history lesson of where these conversations at Netflix actually did start? So the trans-specific conversation started around the release of Girl. So the Girl movie, it was definitely a, it was a misrepresentation of trans culture. And that's when, you know, it was almost three years ago. That's when people first started asking questions about, "Hey, like, why did we put that out there? This is harmful content. It's not true. It's a terrible representation of trans culture." Separately, I was also the ERG lead for Black Ed, right? And the Black Ed is the oldest ERG out of all the ERGs. And they've been talking about that for like six or seven years. Right? So six or seven years, they've been talking about Black content, Black representation, making sure content is fair. So the conversation around content and having it be representative is in the DNA of Netflix for diverse people who work there. The question is simply then, why the heck has it not moved forward? Like, why the heck have we not gotten to the point that the content really reflects all of this, this internal debate, internal conversation, there's been very, very robust. And in fact, when you actually think about it, you know, a lot of the comments that have been made is, "Oh, well, Netflix is one of the first places that ever had a trans person." And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, we know the burn was on orange as a new Black. You know, we know, you know, know me from, since eight. But at the same time, if you can only name two or three, that's probably not a good way to go about this. You know, and then we also know when the burn was on orange as a new Black, they were dubbing her words with man in other countries. Right? Yes, they really were. I did not know that. And it was so offensive. In, for instance, Transstar is another great example when Transstar was consulted by the dubbing team. And they were like, "So how should we deal with this in the future?" And we were like, "Well, you know, we understand that in different countries, in different languages, it might be difficult to find someone who perfectly matches someone's voice." And if that is the case, just ask the person what they think. You know, don't just make an arbitrary decision. Seek out, support, create relationships, and honor people by letting them be represented in the way that makes most sense to them. Right? You know, that actually brings up a good point, which is that I was very surprised to hear that the Trans Employer Resource Group was not really consulted at all in the rollout of this special. So, part of me was like, "Why even have this group at Netflix, if you're not going to actually empower them to be involved when things like this are rolled out?" And so, for the sake of argument, let's say that the Trans Employer Resource Group had been consulted during this rollout. Are there things that you could have seen y'all actually suggesting to make this less harmful? Yeah, and that's actually been the number one point here. Like, there's no desire to stop creative freedom. Right? Like, the simple fact is, there are contracts. You move forward with the content based on those contracts. But there's no desire to stop things. And so, when I thought about it, when I first saw it, I was just like, "Why did y'all decide to release this in October during LGBTQ+ history month?" I think that's a terrible idea. You know, why did you not think about the term "Turk" and how that, because that became the like, "Clack Sun." Like, that became the thing that everyone was focused on. And in fact, it was the external groups who were just like, "You know, Dave should tell the term Netflix released this." It was all external people who were completely in sense that they saw something in fact. And so, like, you know, we could have said, you know, the TransStrike group could have said, "By the way, you may want to just cut that joke." Like, you may want to like tweak that, or like ask, and the thing is, and when I say that, I mean, talk to Dave about it. And say, "Dave, your bigger point is this like LGBTQ+ movement versus black movement, and your point is going to get lost because of this statement." Right? And so, it's about making the concept get to his point versus having all this führer around it. And so, that's the thing. That's what TransStrike does. That's what TransStrike is always all for the dude. One of the other things that I did is TransStrike lead was also to meet with content executives. And I called it the Friendship Offensive. And all we would do is go have conversations with these folks and say, "Hey, we're humans, we're great. We can help you make great content." And I'm going to tell you some of the pieces of, you know, productions that we worked on. I know for a fact that they're so much better because we just sat down with those people and told them different ways. And they would send us emails and say, "What do you think of this? What do you think of that?" And all we did was consult. You know, it was never, "Oh, like, you know, we are the bearer to this amazing thing being created. It was, "How can we make it better so that Netflix's reputation isn't harmed so that trans people aren't harmed and so that people get a good message out of it?" That's such a good point because the only thing I have heard about this comedy special is the Transphobia and the Turf Comments and the day-K-Rowling Comments. Whatever the other point Dave was trying to make, it did not reach me, it did not reach Twitter. And I have to wonder, like, was that actually? Like, I feel like if he had been open to be thought partners with you all, his special would have been that much better, that much more, you know, just that much more truthful and authentic. And it's like, what a missed opportunity to make something better and also less harmful. Like, what a win-win that was just missed. Yeah, I mean, one of the things I saw on some of the tweet, they were like, "I haven't seen anyone drop a video, a gift, a mean of the special." They had a joke in it. And they were like, "How can this special be successful if they haven't dropped the single one?" And I was like, "You have a point. They've only dropped the really incendiary thing." And so to your point, it is true. Like, you know, I do feel like the special could have been so much more powerful if there had been that partnership. Because I do think, I understand what he's trying to say. I disagree with it. And I would say this because, so, in certain sense, the special is trying to pit LGBTQ+ versus the civil rights movement. I am a black trans person. I'm at the intersection of these two groups. I get screwed over by both groups. And so, like, I do think that this oppression Olympics, like one movement hurting another movement, I don't think that's true. In fact, if you think about the same sex marriage law that went into effect many years ago, they actually, you know, use loving versions of Virginia as part of their logic behind it. Because they're saying that minority individuals deserve the same rights as anyone else in this country. And so, I actually think that both the civil rights movement and LGBTQ rights movement are in-trip, but they're intrinsically linked. And we would be empowered by noting them versus assuming that one happens over the other one. And it just, I mean, I completely agree where we're definitely, our movements are stronger together when we support each other. And it completely erases people at the intersections like yourself. Something about Dave's comedy seems to suggest that LGBT, the LGBT, it's like that book, all the women are white, all the men are black, right? Like, all the LGBTQ folks are just default white. All of the black folks are default cis. And it's like, it completely erases that people exist at those intersections. And the way that I feel like it's so like 1997, like get your attitudes and your ideas into 2021, you know? Exactly, exactly. And the simple fact is, you know, I think it was time like three or four years ago, they were talking about what the future of the world's going to look like. And all those people had melanin. Okay. Right. Like, that's, I mean, let's just be truthful. The way that the world is actually changing, the way that it's actually evolving, I mean, even Gen Z, such a large percentage of Gen Z around the world is completely open to not only LGBTQ plus people, but they're coming out increasingly earlier. Right. So, you know, you have like, you know, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, you know, you're all come out and saying, yeah, I'm a part of the LGBTQ plus community, which is not something that has ever happened before. And so, the fact that we continue to have these like very antiquity conversations is just very disturbing to me and is a sign of how some people aren't like this is why you have to be thoughtful and you have to listen. Right. Like I am now considered an elder like because you know, I'm over a certain age. I'm an elder now, right in my community. Because in the trans community, most like so there's been the statistic that says that many black trans people do not make it to the age of 35. I am now over 35. So I'm like a grandparent. Like that's how that's how they perceive me. And it's just so interesting to me because even for me, I have to take a step back and listen to the young people. And because they're like you're more conservative than I am. And I was like, oh, I guess I am, right? Because I grew up in a completely different way. I came out much later because I was afraid and you don't have that fear mechanism that keeps you from being your whole self And I actually admire you. What do you mean me to help you with because you're so much further along than I was and all I'm trying to do is make sure that you have a safe place That's beautiful. First of all, I would have never thought you were over 35. That's so beautiful. You know, so this is let's black down for it. It's so true Let's take a quick break Run a business and not thinking about podcasting think again more Americans listen to podcasts than add supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora and as the number one Podcast or I heart twice as large as the next two combined so whatever your customers listen to they'll hear your message Plus only I heart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio think podcasting can help your business think I heart Streaming radio and podcasting call 844 844 I heart to get started. That's 844 844 I heart 2% that is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available I'm Michael Easter and on my podcast 2% I break down the signs of mental toughness fitness and building resilience in our strange modern world I'll be speaking with writers researchers and other health and fitness experts and more to look past the in practical and Way to complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry We really believe that seed oils were inherently Inflammatory we got it wrong many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world other result of Stress put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier more fulfilled Healthier person listen to 2% that's T.W.O. percent on the iHeart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts When is the win? Yep, that's me clipper Taylor the fourth you might have seen the skits the reactions my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media Well somewhere along the way this platform became bigger than I ever imagined and now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast the Clifford show This is a place for raw unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, Creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard but celebrated One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life Mental health purpose and even music the clipper show isn't just a podcast It's a space for honest conversations stories that don't always get told and for people who are chasing something bigger So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream This is right what you need to be listen to the clipper show on the iHeart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and for more behind the scenes Follow @clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok Do you remember when Diana Ross double tap little Kim's boobs at the VMA? When Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people I know what you're thinking what the hell does George Bush got to do a little camp where you can find out on the look back at the podcast I'm Sam Jay and I'm Alex English each episode we pick you here unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about cracking the eights to be clear 84 is big to me not just because of crack I'm down with talking about crack all day, but yeah, yeah literally put just so y'all know I mean at this point This is the second episode where we've discussed crack so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have eight on the table I don't think there's a more important year for black people really yeah for me It's one of the most important years for black people in American history Listen to look back at it on the iHeart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts There are no girls on the internet is doing a live show on May 28th at caveat in New York City and virtually from wherever you're at We'll have amazing guests a meet and greet and much much more go to tango.de.com/live and get your tickets and I cannot wait to see you there At our back In 1987 Eddie Murphy released his stand-up special Eddie Murphy raw and Murphy has this whole bit about how gay people didn't like his homophobic jokes And how whenever he goes out to parties are out on the town he feels like there's going to be a gay mob out looking for him Only he doesn't say gay people he uses us later Now something about this line the idea of a gay person strapped at the top of a car as a siren Really stuck with me and the takeaway for me when I was watching was that gay people are basically less than human and that pointing this out is funny I mean like listen to this crowd. They were loving it and I interpreted that making fun of gay people was a clear pathway to acceptance from others Now I was watching this when I was just a kid I'd already known that something was up with me, but I had not yet come the terms with being a clear person And I watched the way that these kinds of jokes about gay people got Eddie Murphy so much loud clear acceptance from other black people And it was confusing to me at a time when I was already really confused In 2019 Eddie Murphy actually revisited his past homopobic comedy routines in an interview with the New York Times He said that he looks back on all those old jokes in cringes. I Was a young guy processing a broken heart and kind of an asshole, he said He apologized for spreading homophobia and ignorant comments about HIV saying that he's much more educated now I now have a whole lifetime of experiences to draw upon there was a time when I was at the center of everything What I was doing and how funny I was and how popular I was I'm not the center anymore. He said now instead of Rayleigh against being canceled by the PC police he reflected he evolved There's this attitude. I've heard over and over again that what a comedian says on stage is just a joke It doesn't have any real world impact now. There are scores of studies that suggest otherwise and be put to another way If someone is starting out from a place where many of the messages around them are telling them that they aren't even a full person Adding to that chorus makes things that much harder Something that I'm kind of sort of almost sick of hearing is this idea that like oh, it's just jokes It's just jokes. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that study after study after study has shown you know a direct correlation between Transphobic rhetoric and anti-trans violence and so you know What do you say to people who are like oh? How many specials don't translate to real-world harm like like what do you probably? I know that I have heard that argument over and over again like what do we say the stuff like that? So first of all, we know that's not a hundred percent true because if that was not if that was true Then a five-year-old to watch a way to our movie Right like we know that the content on the screen impacts people now The thing is is that that doesn't mean that like today after they watch the specials They're gonna go out and beat up someone who's trans But that does mean that someone is forming an opinion about trans people based on the content that they're seeing and that they could be discriminatory towards trans people or they could be violent towards trans people later We also know that the content that exists on the screen also internally impacts the people who are the the target of that content Right, so like you know, we also think about so hard if you're seeing this type of content if you're seeing people talk about this in this type of dialogue and You are here in a place where you're not a whole person, right? You know, I was I when I first started out I used to tell people you know naturally I am I wake up every day with my glass half empty Right, I'm a diverse person. I'm a multi diverse person and so I hear constantly whether it's about me being black and potentially being less than whether it's about me being non-male and Somehow not being strong whether it's about me being trans and my difference is there whether it's about me, you know being Marital woman and how different that is You know about what it's you like about me being a marital white woman and how I've betrayed my race Like all these things are coming through constantly and so When you put out this content all it's doing is trying to finish a little bit that's in that glass Right a little bit of hope in the dreams there. I'm very fortunate because I have an amazing support system and I have an amazing amount of education and fiscal ability because I've been so successful in technology for so long that I have been able to fill that glass back up to almost full but many people cannot And so when you think about this content all it's doing is diminishing the potential of those people And then we lose out on that potential like as a society we are literally losing out On bright lights who could help change this world because of the content we're choosing to push you out there Without also making sure that we put out a firming content too How hard is it to make another pose? Really pose was pretty cheap It was really cheap You know we can make like five poses and people would be so happy That's such a good point and I think it takes me it takes me to this idea that is obviously bullshit But this idea that oh these Netflix staffers they want to cancel Dave Chappelle But when you actually look at the demands that staffers were putting forth that Netflix it's stuff like you know, can we invest in a comparable way for trans and gender not performing a non-binary creators? You know, can we elevate trans content like the disclosure documentary, which I love? You know, can we can we promote that on the platform? It is such common sense things. And yet it gets sort of, I don't know, telephoned into they want to cancel Dave Chappelle. And I guess my question is, how do we combat this idea when there are so many people who are just hell bent on believing the absolute worst about the intentions here? Because when you actually look at the demands, it's just like what you're saying, like invest in trans and gender not performing creators. And that will actually improve the platform. Netflix will be better for it. And yet that gets sort of mistranslated into something that's just that completely not true. I mean, Oprah said it best. Oprah was just like, there's just some people who are not going to convince. Right? You did not go into events. That's not the people who are trying to convince. We're trying to find that middle ground of people. The middle ground of people who are still trying to learn to be educated, who just want to know more. And so that's the, that's the main thing I'm focusing on. Right? The reason I've agreed to go on these podcasting is like that is to spread this message because of people who listen to you, the people who are looking at the office, those people are the ones who still have that ability to be swayed. And the thing about that is if we sway a few of those people, they're also related to the mother. Right? And so hopefully they'll go in and say, Hey, I want to hear that today. Right? And also this new thing, hopefully, if Netflix moves forward with meeting some of these demands, there'll be a new piece of content out there at some point that they watch as a trans character, because they love just because it's a good show. And then eventually that'll work out. Like this is a long term. This is a marathon. This is not a short term thing. We're not going to change everyone's mind short term. And the thing is we shouldn't, if it was that easy to change people's minds, wouldn't be such hard work. Right? When you think about, you know, the other day, what you over was talking about the civil rights movement. And she was talking about the fact that if we had waited for people to change their mind on the value of black people, black people still wouldn't have the right to vote today. And I feel as though this is the same as that conversation, the same as that conversation that, you know, there's still so much movement we have to do for trans people, for black people, for women, for Latinx people, for Asian people. This is a nonstop marathon to have diverse people. You see this equal and have the equity they deserve in this country. The conditions that you are creating, I think can create change to this lasting, this meaningful that is that reverberates. It is, it does not begin and end with Dave Chappelle's funky special. Like this is a movement that has long, longer term longevity. And I just like love to see that. And I feel like in every statement and, you know, thing that the staffers have put out that's been so salient to me. So I just like love to see that so much. You know, one of the things that I, it's kind of a personal pet peeve of mine. So many of the people that I talked to on this podcast, you know, they are marginalized people. They are historically underrepresented people. They work in tech companies, tech platforms. They are the ones who are putting in all this hard work of making these companies and these platforms look progressive or woke or with it. Now internally, they might be ostracized for this work. They might be punished for this work. They might be fired for this work. But the companies are super okay. It was taken credit for it and being like, yeah, we're a woke company. We're so progressive. Yeah. All of that, you know, do you feel like that sort of happening here that it is staffers who are already marginalized, who are making like giving Netflix the shine to be like, oh, we are with it. Whoa, progressive, new, fresh, all of that. But also behind the scenes punishing those same staffers. You know, the one thing I will say is that they have been an internal movement before I would let go. She started rewarding people who worked with ERGs financially, right? You know, to take that into account for their review. And it was the first time I'd ever been in a company that it actually has that that conversation. But I will say that this is thinkless work, typically, right? You know, you're doing all this work to create an environment that's great that makes the company look great. And a lot of people don't really see that as a part of your work. And so that's something that needs to change, right? Because ERG work not only does it, you know, help the company see what's going wrong, but it also helps retain talent. I can't tell you how many times I was asked to participate in something, whether it was, you know, trans star or black at that helped make sure that a person didn't leave Netflix, right? Because I was able to help negotiate and explain to people what was going on. You know, when it came to the company culture, making sure that they understood where the culture had issues, you know, that type of work is super, super important. And it also is something that, you know, it's it's it's invaluable, right? It's invaluable. There's no way to calculate how much that does for the company. And so I do think that this is something companies really need to think about is how do you figure out what that value is because it is a differentiator between you retaining someone and not reaching someone. People want to work at companies where they feel respected and safe. And I think that like that is a conversation that I feel like it's easy to be missed in this particular situation is that like I wouldn't it doesn't surprise me that people are not necessarily feeling respected, listened to, seen, heard, valued, safe. And I think these days people are unwilling to attach themselves to companies that do not respect them. And I think that's great. But people want to feel respected in their workplaces. And, you know, I saw that statement that the CEO of netlet's put out where he was like, oh, you know, this I handled this badly, all of that, but not seeing the way that that trickles down to the staff. But at the top decisions make people feel so disrespected and unseen and unheard and unvalued. And how there are people like yourself who were going in and plugging those leaks and doing the work of of doing some recon and saying like, you know, are you thinking about leaving? How are you feeling? Like, talk to me about where you're at, where your head is at, all of that, you know, that is valuable work. Yeah. And not only that, but also his apology, which I will say is not an apology, said like one of them was like, oh, it's because we've been working from home. They forgot how good they have it. And I was like, that's what an abusive relationship said. So that you should appreciate me. And I'm just like, but you hit me the other day. Like I don't, like it doesn't work like that. Yeah, no, I definitely feel like, you know, it missed the mark, right? Because it really is more about how do you show up? Right? You know, folks asked me like, what should those emails, those first memos or emails should have said? And I said, it's very simple. It should have said, hey, we dropped a ball on this one. We should have done a better job. Let's talk. And that's three sentences. His actual memo was like two pages. It was two pages to say nothing. Exactly. And so like, that's the thing. Apologies are just apologies. Like you don't have to like, you don't have to, it does have to be convoluted. You don't have to justify yourself. It is apologize. Have a conversation. Figure out correct evaction. Don't do more after a quick break. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than add supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. 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Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2% that's T-W-O percent on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When is the win? Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next. We'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. 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Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down with Taco Bell crack all day, but yeah, yeah. Literally, just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have eggs on the table right now. Are you finishing that sentence? Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC PLAYING] Let's get right back into it. I saw that Dave Chappelle said that he'd be willing to meet with Netflix staffers. That no longer includes you because Netflix fired you, unfortunately. Do you think that that would be like, what do you be willing to meet with them? Do you think that would be fruitful or productive? Or would that be like, is that just like not even a big deal? I mean, I'm telling me with them, the whole point of this is to educate people. Right. And Dave says that he cares. Right. Like, is that some of the part of the statements to he's like, this is a me versus them. You know, this is about, you know, other things. And so I would be glad to meet with them. And also, I don't have to be there. I could also, you know, if he wants to reach out, I can help him connect with the Netflix people as well. Because this is about me. Right. This is about the work and the making sure that this work is done. And I hope that he would actually listen. And I actually, I think he had mentioned recently, he was, you know, he said something like, but you have to watch the special. I'm like, we all have either read the transcript and watch the special. So we've already done all of our homework. I would ask him to look up what turf ideology actually means. And also understand a little bit more about transgender biology. You know, just so we can actually start off on the same playing field. In terms of, you know, what we're talking about. But then that, let's go for it. In the piece that I read on your blog, you referenced this like really famous Baldwin quote, to be a neat girl in this country is to be relatively conscious, and to be relatively conscious is to be in the rage most of the time. And you kind of had your own spin on it. You said, to be a black trans person in America is a study and courage and a fierce desire to not be forgotten. And so it just seems like black trans folks are so easy to understand. And so it's like black trans folks are so easily erased and forgotten. Not just in this conversation, but everywhere. And, you know, y'all have always been here. Y'all are part of our history. And I guess I wonder, do you find yourself feeling like you have to constantly create these monuments to your existence so that it doesn't get erased? And not just monuments to your existence, but this idea that, you know, black trans existence is more than just like trauma and pain, making sure that there's room for black trans joy, black trans dreams, black trans brilliance. Like how do we build monuments to all to be 360 degrees that is black transness? Yeah, you know, it's so funny. I'm talking to my cousin because you know, my cousin, he he was talking about, you know, the special and how it didn't hit for him. And we started talking about black trans people. And on, you know, trans people remember, and the majority of the names that's going to be read out as people have been killed this year are black trans people. And it's so interesting because those people are just the people we know about. Those are the people who had someone who advocated for them, who said, this person was a black person, this person was a trans person, because many people don't have legal name changes. Like they don't have any, they don't have people who are affirming of their identity to represent their story. In fact, I was telling my cousin that I'm so fortunate because like my legal name is beat. Like this is an image of my child. My document show that I'm a trans person. There's an entire reflection now in the side, the side guys, this says that I am being to no one can take my story from me. Right. No one can take my story from me. And so that is the point is the fact that so many people live these amazing colorful, beautiful lives that are cut short. And because of the fact that as a society, we're not quite where we need to be to understand and be respectful of that identity. Right. It's actually really funny because people talk about that you should have privacy in your home. But what we actually talk about, like what we actually see from black trans people is that as soon as you die, your privacy goes away. You become a part of the public conversation and they choose who you are. And so that's the thing about all of this. It's about choice. It's like, why do we choose to harm? Why do we choose to defend? Why do we choose to let people be forgotten when we know they existed and they should be honored as such. And so that is the real core piece of this. And so it's an increasing frustrating thing for me because he may know, there's a young man from Mississippi who was killed recently. And his entire family misjinder him. And it's his family. It's his chosen family who has done this work to get out the message of who he was. And I just think it's someone else from Mississippi who is just so fortunate that I get to control my story. And he's like, what's Hamilton? Who will tell your story? If Hamilton's wife wasn't so bomb, who knows what we would know about Alexander Hamilton? Right. Like, you know, that's the thing that's crazy about this. That's beautiful. The where can folks support you support black trans folks more broadly and what should folks do to support the Netflix staffers who are continuing to speak out? So first and foremost for the Netflix staffers continue to spread the message about what's really been asked for. So if you look at Twitter, the trans at Netflix, Twitter handle, and so the asker there to do to share those asked so that people can understand what the real ask is here to watch trans things. So the disclosure document is great. Also watch pose because pose really. So it's the young black trans person coming up. Pose that actually definitely represents a lot of my community that I first met and who helped me become cool because I was a door. So I think that's really great to support black trans content, especially pose to. And then for just generally, this is just the beginning, right? This is just the beginning. So there's a lot of organizations out there. So trans lifelines, great organization. So there's a lot of background help in Chicago's one of the premier institutions treating trans folks and doing research on trans folks. The transgender law center is also amazing places to support to. They're doing really, really great work. Glad is the great place to support because they're trying to help talk about this media representation and change that. So I think I'm being on B Pagels minor everywhere, follow me on Twitter, you know, because that's really where I post a lot of content that I find that I think is very interesting. They can help people understand a little bit more context as well. But first and foremost, educate yourself. You know, if there's a curiosity that you have that you don't really know what's going on. If you have a document, there's someone who's tweening about there's someone who can help give you that context so that you can feel more comfortable because like, you know, this is a long journey. Like, you know, it's definitely not something that you figure out overnight. Okay, actually have one last curve ball question for you. You strike me as someone who likes movies, likes TV, likes music. Do you remember a time when a piece of media or piece of content or piece of art made you feel seen and affirmed? Post is a great example of something for me where I cried when I first saw it. Like I could not believe that those were the like the drag shows, the ballroom. I was just like, this is this is literally what I first got exposed to. Right, so this is before I came out of strand because like I was I refused to acknowledge the fact that I was trained. And I was in Memphis, Tennessee. I was home from college and my mother, my mother of all people took me to the club to see a drag show because she was just like, I feel like you make a see this. I was like, mom was no, they know. So like I need to do on this. I show with my mother, which is really bomb and I met a bunch of like a bunch of like the drag community, you know, who are also trans. And so some of the first things imposed like literally feel like they were exactly the exact same from when I first came out or when I first started to discover that maybe I might be different. And so that's a huge thing. And the second example, which is like really strange and I don't know why I feel this way about this, but the second example is purple rate. I think it's because of princess and draw today. And so I kind of felt like, you know, I was like, I- felt a little scene. And also it was so complicated, right? Because he was like this brilliant artist, when he was also so messed up. And I just felt like I just really got it. Because I just, yeah. And so I watched every watch that movie, like probably multiple times a year. And then the whole soundtrack is like, that's my sound track. If I'm in a mood, I gotta go with some best soundtrack. So. - But you have no idea, if I could turn you around and show you all the different prints, iconography in my apartment. Purple Rain is my thing, Prince is my thing. And again, Prince was someone who made me feel seen, especially in the black community because, you know, I grew up in the South and I grew up with my uncle's making gay jokes and using flurs and everybody liked prints. Like it didn't be like even though there was like Prince was in droid and even though Prince was like, as my uncle would say, "Fruity, people fucked with Prince." And so to see the power that he had in our community was, it was intoxicating. I completely feel you on the Prince completely feel you. And you know, and you can get anybody he wanted, man, woman, and friends. Like anybody in the whole world, I'm pretty sure Prince could walk into a room and just look at you, you'd be like, "I, okay, where we going to go?" - Yeah, I think that's the other part of it. It's that it just completely redefined what masculinity, what femininity, what everything was. And I think that's one of those things that he probably did more work for so many different types of people than almost any other artist and he wasn't trying to. - Not a woman, not a man, something you'll never understand. The power of art, the power of representation, the power of art, the power of creativity, it's unmatched. - If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangoady.com/store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech? I just want to say hi. You can reach us at [email protected]. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangoady.com. There are no girls on the internet who was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of I Heart Radio and Unboss Creates, edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amata was our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, check out the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. (soft music) - A win is a win. - A win is a win. I don't care which one's the winner. - Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills or conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more behind the scenes, follow @cliford and at TikTok Podcasts Network on TikTok. - 2%. I break down the signs of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. So put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side, a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. - Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O percent on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - On the look back at the podcast. - The next episode of "Same You Nine" that was a big moment for me. - 84 was big to me. - I'm Sam J. - And I'm Alex Egrish. - Each episode we pick you here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite artists. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. - It was a wild, I mean, it was a wild year. - I don't think there's a more important year for black people. - Listen to look back at it on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Hey, it was good, y'all. You're listening and learning the hard way with your favorite therapists and host care games. It's similar to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. - Listen to learn the hard way on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.