World Cup 2026 - Spain are world champions!

[Music] Hello and welcome back to Stadiot Podcast. I'm Misal Kwonga. I'm Ryan Hunn. Ryan, how are you doing? I'm doing alright, thanks man. How are you? Not as well as Spain, tell you that much. And tell me a few people are. I was on the way back from the T-fo office last night, just walking through London and coming across Spanish people who were having a great time. They kind of like look over to see you've either been or you're not vibrant, and be like, "Congratulations, they'll be like, "Vamos!" And one of them was just like, "He's like, he kept asking me Spanish." He was like, "He was Spanish? He was Spanish?" I was just like, "No, no, no, just congratulations." The beginning of your naturalization. Anyway, we hope you're staying safe and well wherever you are. A quick bit of admin. So this is our final show on the free feed until the new season. So if you listen to us on the free feed, this feed will go quiet for a few weeks. While Misal and I try and squeeze in a bit of a break, if you're a Patreon member, we're going to do another show about the World Cup this week. And then what we're going to do is we're going to record a few episodes that will go out every Monday to Patreon members or just a few weeks. Well, I take a break, you take a break, but we wanted to make sure that members still got some stuff through the summer. But yeah, we're going to try and make sure that we don't overlap our break so we can, you know, someone can hold down the floor. So yeah, that's the schedule admin. I want to say first, you know, first of all, we hope everyone's staying safe and well as well wherever you are. And also just a massive thank you to everyone who's listened to stuff through the World Cup. If you're just listening on the free feed or it's the first time you've listened to Stadio, we really appreciate everyone who's listened and checked our workout in the summer. If you're not a member and you want to sign up and you then please go for it, patreon.com/stadio. Get away every episode plus loads more perks if you want to sign up to the Stadio social club, et cetera, et cetera. And also just a quick bit of admin as well. Anyone in London, live show Thursday, still some tickets left. Yes, yes. You meet Nishkumar at the South Bank Centre. So if you want to go and get those tickets, go and get them. If anyone wants a World Cup post-mortem, the World Cup catharsis, a chance to breathe, let off steam come and hear us do it, ask some questions getting involved. And also hang around afterwards because it's such a great group of people that you want to meet. And we will be hanging around. We will be. Very excited. Yeah. All right, so should we get into today's show? Let's do it. Spain's men have one their second World Cup. They'll be Argentina one day left after extra time in New York, New Jersey, stadium and each other for New York to use its full title. Can we use MetLife now? It's the World Cup's done. First of all, water performance. Wow, this was one of the most, it felt like one of the most dominant World Cup finals I'd seen. This is creative. Spain were amazing. They were amazing. We're going to get into this more broadly in this podcast. I want to just stay up top. They were incredible. The stats actually don't show. The stats don't show how incredible they were. Yeah, there was a point at half time where I was chatting to someone because I was working with the T-Fo guys just as well. I was chatting to someone at half time just saying, I don't think Spain expected it to be quite so easy for them in the first half. And it wasn't easy. That's not my point. I'm not saying it was easy, but I think it was easier than they thought it was going to be. That's the point where it points. They were playing with their food a bit in the first half. Just a slight lack of intensity. I was like, oh, you know, when we always talk about you always talk about that game, the Saudi Arabia or Argentina game in three of this World Cup. Argentina kept playing as if they knew they were going to have more chances. It kind of felt like Spain was interesting that about midway through the first half. I mean, I've not rewatched the game but I felt at the time. You know, it's so funny. I see it differently. I Spain are the first team at this World Cup and the last, of course, whose intensity was not affected at all by the hydration breaks. Exactly the same. The intensity, no. Yes, me in that final. The final two, three passes. There was something about the way they bypassed Argentina with so much ease. They were by a galaxy, the best team at this tournament, by a galaxy. When I see by a galaxy, I mean, the cohesion of this side, I cannot praise them enough. I cannot, the conditions, the pitch, Argentina's intensity, what Argentina was trying to do out of possession, none of it mattered. The half time show, none of it mattered. Spain came out as if the half time break had been a minute long. They came out as if they had taken the oranges on the pitch because the speed of the chance creation as soon as the restart happened, they were like, bang, straight up in the next again. And for all to talk about, you can't mark a mess out of a game. This was airtight, airtight marking. There was one moment in the game where Messi's out by the flank and there were two players either side of him on one watching the outboard. Heavy supervision everywhere. And they somehow did it. They somehow managed to crowd Messi without being pulled across the pitch. It's one of the most impressive footballing performances I've ever seen. But for a couple of missed chances, and that's why I saw, I think, to your point, this lack of precision, there was, place in the ball like the side of Martin as a slightly sharper finishing. But for that, I mean, prior to the game, I thought it was going to be a two-goal margin. They should have been out of sight in normal time. Yes, in normal time. They were spectacular. I want to say that as well. Let's put a pin in this because I also want to say to Argentina, the way that Skone set them up, I think, was the best possible configuration. I think four across the middle, four centimetre fielders, very much like a barricade. You're forcing them to make the difference. But I was watching the game with someone who's not really a football fan and she was blown away, but she just said, "I'm not a football fan, but the way that spain creates space." The way they create space, the speed they're moving the ball through gaps, moving around, working around. It was rock climbing, you know, "Okay, we can't go up there, we can't ascend there, let's shift it around, let's pull it back, bang, bang, bang." And Argentina just could not get out. This is the thing actually to say about Argentina before I had it back to you. They have, because gradient sports as we can do this, that's for the game. They were looking at press-resistant passes. Argentina have some of the most presses-resistant passes in World Football, Parade Ace and Enzo Fernandez. Those players both lost their heads. That is how good spain were. You rattle people. - Parade Ace. - Parade Ace. But just not that-resistant. You cannot withstand. You know, when you see like these like brutal tropical rainstorms, the ones that come in off the ocean, and they are hammering buildings that have been built, these buildings have been built to withstand tropical rainstorms. And about five hours in, the roof starts buckling. That was watching Argentina. They just could not, they could not live with that under any, yeah, I don't think, but there's no team in World Football that couldn't live with that. It's interesting how I think Spain have done this through the tournament because Sid Lowe wrote a piece with a garden, which was the headland was at the World Cup, the World Cup, the World Cup, the Superstars, the team take home the trophy, which I think is a really interesting way to frame it because if you look at some of the the sides that Spain have come up against, individually, you may say some of those teams have had better players like, for example, I mean, we talked about this after the France game with Spain. The level that they were achieving with, if you went through some of the players on paper, and I think, to be honest, I think a lot of them, you're like, yeah, amazing, amazing, amazing, amazing, but I think especially maybe like part of that, some of that back for or even a goalkeeper, compared to other players in the tournament that you would probably have in a side, I'm not entirely sure a lot of people pick the Spain back for, example, if they were going to do best, best players in the tournament. And so, and that's such a crucial part of the pitch, but Spain have been elite there, like the system, the way that the system functions, it's with everyone elevating their level to a level that even like I think at club level, like I think Cooker-Rayer has been better in this tournament than he was with Chelsea last season. Yes, I think Pedro Poro has been better in this tournament than he was the spurs last season. I think Palca Basi has been Palca Basi and he, I was really glad to see him get, did you get the young player of the tournament award? He did. I'm really glad that he did love because I think that they could have left. They could have lent into the star aspect of it and given it to the Minima, which would have been not correct, even though I think he's struggled a little bit in the tournament. I think that's just because of his fitness issues, not an ability thing, but Palca Basi was so good and we talked about this after the France game. To see a centre back, 19 years old, just locked down a position in a World Cup winning squad. That's quite different, I think, to as amazing as it was, but seeing and baffling the World Cup Final in 2018. Players like Lemini Mal coming in, even Mario Gertz is going for the winner for Germany. This is a very, very different level of responses. You can afford it. You can afford You can afford to basically act out a little bit and still be taking home safely when you're playing further up the pitch. But when you're that young and you're playing at the back, you've got to get everyone home safely. Totally different. It's astonishing. But there was also just one pass he played in the channel for Danny Olmo. Oh, God. For that chance. Well, at first I had, when I was rewatching it again and I actually remember thinking this in real time, I thought Petry was already on the pitch, but I don't think Petry was. Line breaking passes. Like this is the thing is pal, we're going to call him Paul Dini from now on. Is he going to make being a centre back as cool as let's say buskets made being a defensive fielder. Like, you know, there was a thing where there was a point where, oh, like people suddenly started enjoying being people that played out in the back and controlling tempo. The way that this guy has been passing like ever since, I mean, I've not seen a defensive talent bit like this since Vincent Company came through for Andalette at 17. The way the control, like the level of I was watching Vincent Company like Andalette and was spectacular champions. He was like, who the hell is that? This is even more so because there's amazing as company was and is the thing that makes cabbassi so spectacular is that long passing, right? This guy's passing like an elite mid as an elite midfielder. He completed a hundred and twenty one of hundred and six passes. Right? And like, yeah, someone got wild. But these are not normal. The tempo, the speed is ripping the ball through gaps. And now like, Malta, the pal Dini, he's so good. Palcobassi is so good that there's something you now have to make a decision of like, do we, do we press this guy? Because he's going to hurt us in 40 yards away. Like he's giving them a really complicated problem Argentina because then it's no coincidence that some are like Julian Alvarez goes off completely frustrated because of course Alvarez has to do more running because you know messy car runners much that's fine. But Julian Alvarez went off just like, what am I supposed to do with this? Le Port is there who's brilliant footballer like, you know, Le Port just looks in fantastic Nick. Is the real kind of like older cop, younger cop like, you know, mentor like, you know, and the young, the young hand. But cabbassi is like his maturity at the back, his passing range means that Spain are like a threat from anywhere. And don't forget the Pedro Poro, when we praise Cucuréria who gets forward so well and defend so well. Pedro Poro, one of the best playmakers at the tournament as well, who scored the second against France. And now you look at the Spain team and they're like, they haven't actually peaked. They might peaked in a couple of years. They feel a bit like when France went in 1998, but then actually the real peak was year 2000 when everyone was fully fit and locked in and a bit more rested. And I'm not saying that the Spain team was not incredible because they were, but as wild as it's to say that there's even room for slight improvement in this Spain team. That's a bit de la Fuente as well. Can I just say this? Every adjustment that he made. Masterful. Dude, how many there was talk before about our England can't sub of certain players. This guy just takes off Rodrian Neil. The guy takes off Fabian Rerees, one of the best players in the tournament on an hour. Takes off I thought about on an hour like. So the Scaloni is also going. Scaloni is one of the few players and stayed it one of the few people that stayed him not surprised by De la Fuente's proactive nature. But if Scaloni was an ordinary human, he'd be like, how can he be making these changes at this point? Changing the pack and both of them like this. The two best coaches in the tournament in terms of just shuffling the pack bravery, the brave we take off Tudon Alvarez knowing full well that you can't have him for penalties. The brave we take the spectres against penalties. No, I don't think he did. I don't think he did, but he was really just like you just have to bet the house at a certain point. The pattern of the subs was really interesting because it was, wasn't it? I really liked how apart from those because De la Fuente makes those two changes on the hour. By that point, Argentina would have made three. De la Fuente just waits for Scaloni to make those two subs on the 70 and he's basically completed his five for the 90 and then he just makes those two more adjustments of Marino and Williams five minutes later. Brilliant. Which are the sizes of the patients? The patients of it. Williams had a couple of chances. Marino had a chance in extra time should have scored in the first half of extra time. Yes. And Williams was integral to everything for the goal. Like he he assisted for the Torres goal in extra time. Which you rightly commented in the study of social discord there was the angry goal of the year. I think you take some beating. There's a part of Ferran Torres has been waiting to score that goal ever since he entered professional football. Like, well, I mean, that is the doubt over him over his finishing. It's been there ever since he returned or ever since he got to Barcelona. There's been questions like is he a consistent finisher and like the numbers haven't been the greatest for Ferran Torres. We'll get to him more broadly in a second. But what I love about this victory for Spain and we're kind of jumping around by I want to just sort of cap this and then we'll return to the rest of the game was that it was a progressive victory in that Spain were chipping away in shifts at Argentina. Like when they had that by the time they entered extra time. I was like, this is something close to Spain's best attacking 11. Not completely because Rod was off the pitch. But when they had Nico Williams there running with freshness, we always said like we had to get a little bit more fresh for him to affect games as brilliant as by and it was by and actually creatively was really quite good in this tournament. But there's something Nico Williams gives you and you saw that both when he messed up a chance and when he created one, his unorthodox style of play, his ability to see angles at no one else sees. There's almost no one else on the pitch that can create that assist for Ferran Torres. The vision, the technique, the athleticism to be falling back and ahead across an angle to angle and assist like that. So good. You know what that was? That got that assist. I'm going to throw this hot taking the that assist was the direct descendant of the Fabricas pass for iniesta. You know that gap appears in 2010 and Fabricas just sees it and just does that little bounce pass to look up and just see the whole pitch and be like, I've got to not only get this back to Ferran Torres but give him time and the cushion on it. Like there are so many people that have headed that back and like put it at his waist. But he just, he just, it's like a reminds me of a touch pass. Yeah, it's like it's part because it's like someone's catching it in mid air and is released before they've hit the ground and everyone's still moving. Brilliant points across. Yeah, it's amazing. It's incredible. It's it's genuinely, it needs its own mini podcast that just the quality of this system to do that, the timing, everything. And it was again, rather like the 2010, we're going to keep referring back to that victory, I think because there's some there are some similarities to some differences but there's there's so much overlap just as in 2010, it was a goal absolutely worthy of of a final. Well, I think they could have been ahead earlier to be fair because yes, I think they, I think I've seen it quite doesn't matter now, but I think Spain got, Spain got unlucky with the goal that was just loud. The Niko Williams one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it was like, yeah, automatically gets it. It's tricky. It's one of those. It's it's it's it's it's it's it's a little though. Hell of a gamble from a to mend to go down. It was wasn't it, it was a big gamble and at first, because I wasn't watching it with sound. I was asking in the study of social discod if if the whistle had gone before the ball across the line, but I watched it back this morning, it actually hadn't. So I feel I feel a bit, I think it was, I think Argentina got away with one there. Well, actually, I suppose they didn't get away with that much. They didn't get away with much. No, they didn't 11 saves by Emmy Martinez, which was one save more than who knows him on the entire tournament. Well, Spain, was it Spain? I think they combined XG for the total conceded was 2.4 and they conceded one goal in the tournament, which was that they got to let her go. This was the problem that Argentina had. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're going to say this is the same. It looks like we've talked about this before about when you build that aura gradually through a tournament. When you start that when you don't get looks like Argentina didn't have a single shot. Not a shot on target. A single shot until the hundred and 17th minute. They broke a record. It's the new record for the longest that a team has gone in the men's walk up final without a shot. And I think it's going to take some beating because that's nearly two out. Sorry, sorry, just a check. Who said, did you know that 117 minutes is nearly two hours? I feel myself say that. You know what, that's nearly two hours. And then they had a second shot. Their second shot of the game was in the 120 second minute. Genuinely, you know, you know, I can't praise this performance enough. You look at the way everyone contributed defensively and the mania was disciplined. He didn't force the game. I really liked this actually. Like he didn't have his in quotes big moment, but he didn't force, which was great. By a thar ball dropping in very, very well, Roderie just, I mean, what can you even say? It's the way that he he baits you into like rushing on to me like, oh, like he's not that big. He's not that far. come on like how hard can it be and then just every single time just bang two people drawing in the balls around the corner and they're just advancing up the field and there was just nothing like Argentina trying on someone said like how could this Argentine of Team beat England and I'm like I don't think this is given credit to what Spain unleashed actually because this stuff it works on teams that play you at close quarters it works on teams that can't control the ball and rotate it like Spain can. So control thing. Yeah, it's control. No one could control the game. No one could control games in the tournament as good as Spain could and they ended up winning the game. They ended up winning the tournament because I think if you look what happened actually at the final five minutes of extra time. Argentina have done that in pretty much every game that they've played in the knockout. They went to extra time in every single knockout game. Yeah. Apart from the England game. Yes, yes. Which followed a similar pattern though right where they have this level of intensity that they can crank it up to. Yes. At certain point in the game and when you have someone like Leon on Messi who even at 39 years old has been one of the best players of this tournament. Yes. That's such a unique thing to have in it and it almost got spayed. It almost did and because you can tell that Messi has been rationing his sprints you can see when you know that. It reminds me a little bit of that Nike advert though. When Holland is just like, no, not yet. Not yet. Totally. Totally. It's different and I think Argentina probably had to do that by necessity, especially at that point when they're down to 10 which we'll talk about and say. But I think that's the thing about the England game. Not wanting to go back on that because I think literally. Go for the game. Okay. They finished third. We saw that game on. I didn't actually watch the game live but the game on Saturday seemed like a fitting end to the tournament for everyone. It was really nice seeing the French and England players afterwards just kind of being a huddle together I think some of them are latter were praying kind of did it together which a sharp contrast at the end of this game. There wasn't much peace and meditation at the close. There was an amazing video of Luminium on his knees praying and in the background, Archon to his players just going on. They needed to slow that down and play classical music score. This is the thing about Spain all tournament right just when you when they can lock down a game defensively and they can lock down a game with the ball. The longer the time goes on it's like the kind of bower constrictor analogy. For example, do you remember we used to talk about those man city teams? I remember like the light sick Champions League game where we're just like you're watching something happen for an hour and a half. And they know that it's happening. I mean, I'll be like sick or whoever it was. I think there was a glad back season as well when Manchester City did it and we talked about it was just like the bower constrictor just being like relentless. But it wasn't like exciting. It was just it just felt cruel and relentless at the end. I mean, the tournament. It almost just like it almost like impenetrable from a man city point of view. And I know that Spain are literally kind of defensively impenetrable. They've won, apart from one goal, but it feels like but maybe because maybe because it's international football, maybe because I think not a lot of the players on there are quote unquote superstars by the modern superstar standard. I think the general consensus kind of it feels like you can still get us. But you actually can't, which I think is such a lovely little sweet spot for a team to be in because they're almost they want they want underdogs for the tournament. Through the tournament more people were talking about another team winning it and they were just there being like, all right. I mean, I mean, not to sound smart, but I was always very, very frightened by a team that could afford to leave players like that on the bench. Dude, same. We talked about their depth early on, right? We went out to depth and we were like, what? It was absolutely terrifying like what they could deal with. Gavi played five minutes at the World Cup. Against Austria. Grimaldo did not play a single minute. I think the Mendy came on in the final. That was his first appearance in the. You see what I mean? This is the thing like with a system where Spain's floor was almost everybody else's ceiling. The Cabo Verde result I think some people were like, what the hell is this? But that game, Spain were on their necks. And Vozignia, if it wasn't for Vozignia and some slightly errant finishing including Ferentoras hitting the bar from six yards away or whatever it was, which weirdly enough, that result was a blessing for Spain because people did their eyes off them, I think, to an extent. They're like, oh my God, Spain Cabo Verde, God like Spain. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, what was the fuss about? But again, the parallel with Spain's Switzerland 2010. I know we can come back to that parallel. But it's there like Spain locked in. That game actually they were very impressive for Longpierre's Cabo Verde. It just were incredibly resilient defensive. But Spain had it so much of their own way in that first game. And by the time they beat Austria, they looked absolutely just in a different level, a different class. I asked you a good team and Spain just bounced them out like they were nothing. Bugs on a windshield. And the France game as well, like again, that could have been three now. If L'Herminia Mar was not a fraction of side, and then that would have been the signature result. I guess two know this still quite a close result. I think three know as such a sort of like statement would have been like, oh my God. Oh my God, Spain, Spain, Spain. And everyone was like, oh my God, like France England meant to be the final. No, it wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't because Argentina were the world champions. And as good as England were, as good as they were. Unfortunately for them, their weaknesses matched up extremely unfavorably with Argentina's strengths, extremely unfavorably. So let's just talk about Argentina briefly because the way they lined up. Just before we move on to Argentina, can I just say this is the first time that the men's and women's world cup holders have been from the same country. Do you know what's so fascinating about that? You can see that they were educated at the same place. It was like when you're watching debate teams and they all have a certain style, a rhetorical flair or when you see people who come from creative writing class like graduates, they've all gone on written brilliant novels, you can see the lineage like there's such a Spanish style of playing, isn't there? Like you look at the Spain women wing the world cup and we talk about like Lucy bronze going in field that time and then like the bear trap. The midfield bear trap and Spain just will pass you to pieces. There's been lots of conversations about like you know national team DNA and all of that but I think there is something about philosophy and the thing I was saying watching with a friend yesterday I said the thing about the Spain team. I was still kneeling and I said look, Argentina might win this but this Spain team might in dispute to be the best team on the planet and also if you're teaching football to group of young people, you know, God children, whatever like your own kids, if you, this is how you teach them to play football. Like this is such a sustainable way to play football, to keep possession and not just to keep possession but to enjoy it with your friends. This is like, this is a masterclass and I felt like the thing I loved about this game was we've seen a lot of individualism in this world cup and that's been thrilling, don't get me wrong. But a lot of that stuff you can't really replicate. This, you can replicate this. There was one pass that one of them played across the box to Cook-A-Raya and I said that pass is so dangerous to play a square pass across the 80 on your box and to attempt to forwards in that you're baiting them to come in and both of them will go across them and they can't help but go after it, right? They're like, can I kill them? Yeah, everyone else go. It's like watching, it's like going after a laser pointer, you have to go for it but for them it's chill and you've taken two people out of it and then you're all of a sudden 10 against 8, sorry, carry on. It's like watching window cleaners doing skyscrapers and they're little thing, everyone's like, "Oh, and they're just like me." No, no, we can handle the heights, no vertigo here. In the wind. In the wind, talking of in the wind, there was one piece of control that Dominion Mahl pulled off on the flank. Do you remember the high ball when he brings it down over his shoulder and I'm like, "This is to remind us of the levels." I was actually really impressed with Dominion Mahl at this walk up and the reason for that was because he clearly didn't have his A game. He was clearly recovering still from that injury and he could have really forced it and I think early on in the tournament, there were one or two moments where he did and he learned really quickly and I think I am assuming that Delafone Tays probably had to wear with him as well about that. But that shows quite a quite an impressive level of maturity at that age where you are the hype man in terms of everyone is looking at you as the next one to take over as the kind of a back base later in his career still, but he's hitting his peak. And yeah, I think the ability just to not force it and actually be like, "Look, you know what? I can't do this, so I'm not going to try and do the highlight real." I think he did that early on in the tournament and he adapted really well to it. I'm going to give him a compliment here, which is one of the highest I can pay. I talk a lot about when there's a play, Basie is a left-winger in the 2014 Germany World Cup run and just pulled out wide and his job was just like retained possession and have the ball stick out the pitch and then Germany could build an advance behind it. But I think. This was a similar kind of role. Or like, get the ball high up the flank. Yes, make your incursions. If you lose it, don't lose it in dangerous areas. You know, it wasn't a situation where like, if you lost the ball, he would lose the ball in their hearth on the flank. He wouldn't cut in field and then concede it and then all of a sudden you'll face with his brutal counter where all of a sudden Fabian reads and Roderius staring on the barrel. He never, he never allowed Spain's physical force but slightly less mobile in terms of speed that neither Fabian reads or Roderius fast. He never allowed a situation where they were countering which other players with that level of skill, that skill profile would actually do. He never did that. He was very, very disciplined, tied in where he took his risks. And Delaforente, credit him as well, you very clearly, and he just cannot praise that coach enough. So many times where he was just like, we have the best team of the tournament, we have the best players, and you could tell that his instruction was so good, like, Pedri starts the World Cup as a starter, goes in a star-spent, for a couple of games, comes in on the hour mark. No ego creates the most chances in the game and you saw the difference. Arrested Pedri, a rotated Pedri, Pedri, not something to prove, but Pedri with a bit of urgency. Some of the passing combinations through the middle with Roderius were just on another level. Like, no one else in the tournament was putting out together. The way that he would accelerate the ball through the middle of the pitch, we talk about, the San Marathon is going off really unlucky, but we're talking about the importance of attacking the centerbacks directly. And Spain were the first team I saw really going at them in that area, like from a static position. I don't mean Egypt, of course, incredible on the counter, but Spain were the first team that went to Argentina through the middle as a settle defense and played through them timing again. Could not cope with it. And, you know, Argentina, I suppose, if you look at them in the same way that Spain were a tribute to the 2010 team, Argentina, unfortunately, it's kind of a carbon copy of 1990. Gone ageing number 10, defending the World Cup, you lose one, they'll to a late goal, and you get two records. I mean, it was like a carbon copy. And I think this is the interesting thing because if you saw those two records right for Argentina, they both came out of losing gamesmanship. They came from losing a game that those specific players had created. Like, I don't think, don't get me wrong, I don't think Scalone and I, he doesn't say to his players, go out there and initiate this, this, this. He doesn't do that, right? That's not, he's not interested in that. This is, I think, on those individuals, parades who obviously, and then so for now, they've both taken actually into a World Cup. I think they have to look at, at what point does the mask eat the face because there are some things I was doing very well on this pitch, that allowed the kind of supervillain persona to overtake the things that I was doing on the pitch that were very, very good. Like, Enzo Fernandez, one of the best passes under pressure, parades is alongside him. And they wasted, I'm not saying that, Argentina could have won this game, but if you look at that late, late miss from Simione, which he should have scored, really. You just look back and think, with a bit more discipline, could have Argentina forced some penalties? Could they? You know, you have to ask. Because they play that, look how long they played with 10 men, actually. - Yeah, we were ages, right? - On the turnity. - Yeah, and that's the thing about the record that was so troubling when it happened, Simione, it's such a, it's a really bad record, I think. Because Simione, I think he was lucky, technically to get away with maybe not being sent off earlier. Parades, I think, was really lucky not to be sent off earlier as well. And I think that just, it was just completely necessary. It wasn't in a high risk area of the pitch, it wasn't a high threat. And it made, like, to be honest, if I was an Argentina player, seeing another player on a yellow make that, I would have been, I would have been really, really frustrated with Enzo because you've just made a very, very difficult situation, like even harder. - Yeah, yeah. - And it wasn't cool, it wasn't clever, it wasn't like heroic or anything like, it was just a bit crap. - To use the words of Wayne Rooney, when talking about the half time show, he said, "I love all those artists, but I was crap." - This was a big iconic, iconic iconic. - Listen man, I'm not talking about that today, we'll maybe talk about it on the epilogue big picture show, but look, not into it at all, completely unnecessary, but, you know, I don't like how they brought the muppets in because they knew they might have got us with that. - That's true. (laughing) - So it's a part of the muppets, but I'll let it slide. - But yeah, not for me. Just completely pointless. I think I said in the chat, like, do you need it? Will anyone miss it and does it make it the spectacle better? If the answer is no to all the three of those questions, you don't need it. - Exactly. - And we will talk about this on the next show because I do wanna get into this a little bit, but it's just, there are so many things about this tournament that, oh, we said it, it's quite cheesy right, but the whole foot will find the way thing. - Can I say, I love it you said this because I made a note last night, just in case I forgot it this morning, about this, about the Spain victory. Spain winning the World Cup in this fashion, in this final. It felt like it restored this to what it should have been all along, which is merely an excellent football tournament. It was almost like Spain rebalanced or restored some, I don't know, balanced to the force every quarter, but the way that they won this game, they took out any possibility of, this couldn't be rigged, there was no sense in which people watched this and thought, oh, this is unfair, this could be effectively. They won it by such, I know it was only a Gautanil, I know, but they won it by such a clear margin in terms of, it was like watching a boxing match where the opponent's not knocked out, but it's a unanimous verdict and the boxer wins every single round, like the technical excellence. And the opponent isn't like, you know, bruised, it's not nasty, it's just like, yeah, I just, that person was just too quick for me. They were just too quick in all areas. And it was almost like Spain administered a footballing lesson to a very, very good Argentina team. And this Argentina team is a lot of people draw the comparison of that letter, which is quite a fair comparison, I think not only because it's got some in it letter players, but also because the midfield four, a four centimid fielders, the defensive strength, the way they've fought for every possession and all of that, like Argentina came into this game with an exceptionally high floor. Having defeated that England team and looking fresh, looking ready for everything. And Spain came in and were like, they somehow managed, it was like a noise reduction. - Yeah, that's exactly what it was. - It was like watching like, it was like watching like someone, like watching a pianist in the middle of like a crowded airport terminal with their headphones on just like, and everyone was just like rushing around just like Spain was like, in the like watching Lemini and Mal at the end, when it's all kicking off. - Yes, that was a metaphor for how Spain moved through this tournament, all the noise. - Oh, chaos, man. - Yeah, calm in the chaos. And something fitting about that, maybe there's a lesson in that, like, just like focus on your plan and mind your business. And that's how you come through this all. They didn't get caught up in any of it. And it wasn't like they were just like saying nothing politically. I mean, but her glazias came out and said, what he had to say in the tournament, you know, straight up with all of that. Like people just, people said their piece. - Also, wild what got, - You got to be allowed and what didn't get allowed politically. - Do you know what's so interesting about this? And I was, - It's almost like they're making it up. - Can I be honest with you as well? Like, when Spain won, what Trump was trying to do with all of that, he just couldn't get into it. Like he doesn't have any purchase on Spain, the politics of the Spain, the Spain Prime Minister completely opposite to his. He couldn't go up to this in any way. You could see him like, even on the stage at the end, we'll very briefly talk about that, trying to sort of hang around as Spain celebrated. But there was no way in for him. There's no way in for him, spiritually, he had no in. This was just about Spain. It was almost like he had no concept of it. It was fascinating on a very, but we'll talk about this elsewhere. But in terms of Spain's achievement, the European champions, the world champions, their favorites for the Euros already, because they have to be after a performance like that. With Messi obviously aging out, I think Argentina now return to the chasing pack of teams in the world, just because by virtue of Messi's age, Argentina have to go away and reconfigure and rebuild and work out what their next team looks like, but their Argentina they'll find a way. So Spain kind of stand alone now in the men's game. I think France are there. And I think that, you know, I think they look France will come back for Euros. Yeah, for sure. I think just very, very interested to see what Argentina looked like post-Messie. What that does for maybe like the team set up, maybe what that does for leadership, who they look to now, because I think that this team has been so used to pulling in the same direction for an individual who is going to lead them to glory. It's going to be just really interesting to see what happens next, who the main people are of that 11, who they kind of build the team around, what it does for them psychologically as well. It's going to be interesting. Yeah, like you say, sort of France to watch, they might have points to that, let's talk of that. but we'll have more analysis about later, but for the time being, I mean, just Spain, Fabio Narees, played 50, hasn't lost once in Spain. - That's wild, man. - That is so what? Hey, last time to be Spain. - Scotland. - Scotland, man. - It's a picture. - Scotland. - In a good bed's the picture here. - Incredible, incredible. - They've only lost that friendly to Columbia in the last however long it was. Was it three years? Wild. - Sometimes in football, the obvious answers, or the more clear answers, the ones you want to avoid, like, oh, like a Spain really the favourites, it was easy to say to look elsewhere, to look apart from them, but the way they won the Euros, they won the Euros and they hadn't peaked yet. That was the thing that was frightening about it. And the way the goal they scored, this is the thing, the quality of their winning goals. IOTAR boss winner of the Euros, the way they constructed that was just brutal. They just peeled them apart. The way they constructed this goal, this is the thing, Spain win tournaments in ways they generate football, they generate chances that other teams just can't. It never seems hurried with them. There was some commentary, it was interesting 'cause watching the English comms and the German comms at different points, 'cause I was trying to get a different contrast. The Spanish comms were really interesting, right? They're a lot more, they analysed the game as it is, as I think, and not as they want it to be. And there was a thing I think with the UK comms, maybe they were trying to like generate more interest 'cause they knew a lot of people had tuned out to the England game, whatever, I don't know. But they were saying stuff like, "Oh, as the game goes on, you feel that Argentina are gonna knit" and I was like, "No, I don't. Spain are the one team in World Football, where the game goes to 100 minutes and I'm like, they're going to make more high quality chances. They're not gonna just slash at it." That the one time I saw them slash at the ball, I think Rodry hit one, and Sky went over the bar when he slightly rushed it, and the minion mile rushed one, and I said, "Those are the only times in the game when Spain rushed to finish." Everything else was kind of just like process, process, system, regroup, process. - Process, man. - Yeah, yeah. But I think it was thoroughly deserved, man. And the only side, stopping Spain's men and women from being holding the Euros and the World Cup at the same time. So, really, the England, man. - England, yeah, exactly. - England, listen. - You'll never see that. I have a jacket. I have a jacket which I got on the Teef offices. I've got a jacket Teef offices, a beautiful jacket, but it has, it's coming home written in the back, and I'm like, "Uh, maybe." - I might just walk very fast the way that knows he's the logo, hopefully. - You should just scribble it out, so he says, "I'm coming up." - I'm coming up. (laughing) - Then no, I can't ever come up with you for it. - So, I might wear it at the South Bank, actually. - Do it. - Yeah. Can I just say on Spain, I mean, we can't praise them enough. If there's any lessons from this tournament, more broadly for other teams, give your squad players, your plan to use later, give them reps in that third group game. Or example. - Example a bit more. - Gamble a bit more. Like, we talk a lot about like, Kobe Manu not being rotated, not to make about England, but one thing that, Telephone Header's really well, was that he knew that when he called on his players, they'd be ready, right? - Pedri was in an hour. - He went from starting Pedri to bringing him on for just a lockstuff down and control, and that was amazing. He knew that Gavi would give him energy if he needed him, or he used Pedri as a closer. - Yeah, we even, (laughing) understand, do you understand? - Terrifying. Pedri came on the pitch and I said to people, to people on the stand was happening here. - Just doesn't seem fair, does it? - You know what I love about Pedri actually. Can I say this? We're gonna praise him so many more times this podcast in the years to come. - We will wrap up in a minute. I wanna, you know, I'm just going to wrap up with Pedri because he feels like the spirit of this team in such a way, like even when he doesn't play or start, his presence is so important. He feels like to me, and I know I make a lot of analogies with musicians and with actors and all the rest of it, but you know those actors who are just going and picking their roles and making the career they want to, like Pedri's body of work, if you look at the trophies of one, he's one of a lot of trophies, right? But that doesn't tell the story of what he's, his impact on football has been. He kind of just does his own thing. He's not too concerned with numbers or whatever. He just wants to be part of something, like, I've talked a lot about John Pedri the ultimate. Hey guys, what you up to football? - Yes, I know I've mentioned this guy a lot. I've mentioned this analogy before, but John Cazale, the guy that was in five movies, and I think three of them nominated or one best film had the Oscars. He's that, he's John Cazale, he's just in the mix. He's Fredo. He's like, if he's in there, it's better. Pedri makes it better. - I don't know, yeah. - Pedri makes it better. - I don't know, he's in entire filmography. - Yeah, go for it. - For you, sadly passed away. The American way, NYPD, the Godfather, the conversation, the Godfather Part II, Dog Day afternoon, the deer on there. - Thank you, that's Pedri's career. It's all bangers. That's, I love that. You see, you look at Pedri's career and what he's won, and you look at the teams he's been part of, the squad he's been part of, and it's just the quality all the way down. I think he's won the Olympics yet. He won the Olympics, didn't he? Yeah, yeah, all of that. Won the Olympics, won the World Cup, on the Euros, there'll be a chance for Ziggin there at some point, I imagine. Even if there isn't, into there isn't, it doesn't matter. - Well, yeah, it's beyond numbers, yeah. - He's so good that like, you know, it's kind of, yeah, he doesn't, yeah, man. I mean, he's, I think, like, weirdly, I think if there was one player, I would probably have in every single side I supported all the time, I think it would be Pedri weirdly, 'cause just I think what he gives you is just unbelievable. - Amazing. - But man, also just a quick shout for Roger, because I think the Roger that we're seeing at the tournament is not a Roger we were expected to see at the tournament, and the only person who knew was Pep. - Yeah, of course. - Yeah, yeah. - But he was amazing this tournament. And Spain, the thing for Spain, which is wild, is that you have Pedri, like that midfield transition is gonna feel kind of seamless. - Mm. - But also, Roger and Fabio and Ruiz are only gonna be 32 at the next Euros. - Frightening. - They could realistically, to be honest, style and playwise, play at the next World Cup, definitely one of them. And then you have Pedri or Gavi in there as well, and it's. - You haven't met just like, so we're Mendys there. - Mendys, yeah. - It's just looking really good for Spain. - Yeah. - Yeah, I think, worthy, worthy winners of the World Cup, man. - Incredible. Incredible. - And look, I know a lot of people, it's not their cup of tea, some of the games like that, but for me, I think I love about World Cup winners, watching them is that they always solve problems. Some will look at this victory, 1-0, like Spain, just like overwhelmed them, no, like this had to be. This was a very patient deconstruction, and Delifiente becomes the oldest coach to win a World Cup. - Really? - I was a stat about this, it was a surprise me. I was like, really? That's like, yeah. - 65. - Oh, it's not that, not that old. But like, here's a cent, he's so funny, he said a really funny thing before the tournament, he gave him an interview for the final. They were like, well, you man, Mike Messy, and he said, funny story, he said, I think that Sid Loto, the story, funny story, he said, I was coaching a team of teenagers, against one of Messy's teams, gets a basketball team. I think it was when he was at Seville or something, and it was Nill Nill, and we had a man marker, and we took the man marker off Messy. And he said, four goals in the last 15 minutes. So no, we're not man marking Messy. (laughing) - I liked your thing that you said, when the first drinks break came around in the study of discord, you said, Roderoy followed Messy to the drinks. (laughing) - He did the tactical foul, he did a tactical foul. On Messy on the halfway line, and I was like, Roger is playing all the hits today. (laughing) - Quick one, on Trance from Mark J, the previous holder of the oldest World Cup manager, or World Cup winning manager was Del Bosque, who was 60 years old when he won the spain. - Del Bosque looked like 75, didn't he? - Well, he thinks it's really funny when he start going back into the, when he was like, oh wow, like Alfa Ramsey was genuinely only 46 years old, when he won the World Cup. (laughing) And you're like, they still build him like they used to Matt Zagala was 39. (laughing) - Alfa Ramsey was 46 and he won the World Cup, and I'm doing a podcast. (laughing) - You all right. (laughing) - All right, man, we'll leave all the kind of big picture, stuff, and also some thoughts on the World Cup in general for the next show that later on the week, which you can listen to if you are a study of member on Patreon. - Yes. - Let's wrap it up there. Congratulations to Spain, worthy, worthy winners. And yeah, just again, thank you to everyone who's listened to all of the episodes in the World Cup. If you either on the free feed or on Patreon, we really, really appreciate everyone who tuned in and yeah, we do, really appreciate this for. And we hope you all enjoyed it. We hope you all enjoyed the World Cup despite some of the really gross stuff going around it at the end of the day, let me say, man, the football always, the football always does it a bit, you know? - Yeah. - Yeah. - And yeah, man, we'll talk more about that on the next show later in the week. Any other thoughts you want to add before we hear? - Nothing further. Congratulations to Spain, just an absolute joy to watch throughout the tournament and setting a standard once again. - All right, one, don't forget London listeners. Take it so in the description. Go ahead. get those last tickets for the South Bank Center with Nish Kumar and ourselves. It's going to be this Thursday, the 23rd of July. And also don't forget to check the study archers, play this on Spotify, speaking in which we're playing out on. My life's all right. By sure a small anything you'd like to add me so I'll go. Listen to my life's all right. What can I add? Alright, everyone, much love. Have a great week. If you're listening on the free feed, thank you so much for listening to us this season. We'll be back with you in a few weeks at the beginning of the next season. If you want to listen to more episodes through that time, come and join us on Patreon.com/stadio. Patreon members will be back with you later in the week with another episode. And we'll save your big thank you for that one. Much love, everyone. Have a great week. See you then. My life's okay. I've seen the highs of freedom, highs of loving, highs of living. My life is fine. Through my pain and tears, I am not fighting time. Live to laugh, live to cry. Wonder why. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]