WORLD CUP 2026: BIG ENGLAND PREVIEW

Hello and welcome to the game football podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. This is the first of several special World Cup preview shows and this one is all about England. Has Thomas Tuckle picked the right squad? Who will be the key players? What is the US base and backroom team like and crucially? Can they win it? I'm Tom Clark and joining me today to discuss all of that. We have the time sport team who will be with England for the whole tournament. We have the Chief Football correspondent for the Sunday Times and Times and current football journalist of the year. It's Johnny Northcroft. The Chief Sports correspondent for the Times and five times sports news reporter of the year Matt Lorton and the football reporter and current sports data journalist of the year. It's Hamza Khalik. Lunat team, welcome to the studio, welcome to YouTube if you're watching at Times Sports. Let's just get a sense before we dive into the analysis all about England. How excited are we about this? We've got a mixed bag with you. Hamza, this is your first World Cup on the ground. Then Johnny and Matt, this is your eighth. Is that right? Going all the way back to France in '98, how the world and the media and journalism football has changed since then. How excited are we? Matt, I'll start with you. Look, you come into this business to go to things like the World Cup. Johnny and I have been incredibly lucky to now be going to our eighth. It's the pinnacle. Actually, I always say this to young reporters, there is nothing like covering England or World Cup. There is. In terms of professional kind of just the appetite for information, the appetite for copy, the appetite for stories, it's, as you know, Tom, I love the Olympic Games. I also feel very fortunate to have done a few of those, but nothing compares to England. You're an 96, brilliant, but nothing compares to England or World Cup. Yeah, absolutely. Johnny, don't worry, there is going to be a Scotland preview as well. Actually, you can get as many Scotland references in there, but yes, as Matt says, it's a real privilege to cover these tournaments, isn't it? Whether you're at home like I will be or for you guys on the ground. There's nothing better. Matt's right. I've sort of joked a little bit. I've covered Scotland at one World Cup. That was pretty big, but there is a. I guess it's an appetite. It's a scale of a news story of a profile that you get with the England national team. I need to World Cup's different. Each World Cup has got its own. So, in our attempt, it's never quite what you expect. The settings. I'll give it each a little flavour. And after all these years, it's still. This feels like I've mentioned it, the unknown, even now. It's going to be really exciting. We are going to be. I mean, we're going to be working on the clock, but we're going to enjoy every minute. I know that from tournament experience. And just those games, like every game, especially the knockout matches, every game in a World Cup's an epic when you report them on it. And you remember them. You remember them years later, so come on. So, you've covered England's under 21s and some of their triumphs in recent seasons, now going to follow the senior team. A lovely journey for you as well. Yeah, I mean, England and 21, the one in 2023, the Euro's then, then 2025. So, maybe I'm the good luck. So, are you starting your good luck? Yeah, they're going to be a good luck charm. And they will go. And the group stages, we've got it. Until England go back in the group stages and I return back to the end of the 21st. You've been the missing piece all this time. Matt and Johnny, you talked about the appetite for these stories and for everything England related. Nothing shows that there, then, you know, last week, Thursday, Friday, and the announcement of Thomas Tugel Squad, I was on the editing desk and Matt and Paul Joyce, our colleague, did brilliantly, basically getting the entire squad before Thomas Tugel had the chance to name it as a lot of our colleagues around the industry was doing as well. And I want to come back to that in just a second, Matt, because you've done that kind of story so many times in your career. But Johnny, after all, the kind of controversy, hot takes, anger online, you and I had a chat on Friday and actually ended up going, I think he's nailed this, hasn't he? How are you looking at it now? We've recording this on the Tuesday after that World Cup squad was announced. There's still some names that I'm sure listeners are thinking he should be there. Yeah. But it's a good balance. Yeah, look, it's not perfect squad and I'm sure we'll get into some of the detail. But yeah, on Thursday, when the names are starting to come out, I was getting very exercise about Harry Maguire, for example, on the base of peace around it. Why is Harry Maguire not going? It's been the best English defender and the league apart from Marguerite and etc. Maybe, why is Ivan Tony going? And then waking up on that Friday morning and just trying to take stock. And I thought, well, Harry Maguire is the fourth or fifth choice sent back. So is that really a big problem? Ivan Tony is the wild card pick as a striker. You could go with a different one, but you know, that's a big problem. I think if we're coming down to worrying about who the third choice striker is or the fourth choice sent a half, okay, it's a bit hard. I think, by and large, it's a pretty sensible squad. As we mentioned, on Friday, Thomas, it's what he's been telling us he's going to do all along. Two players per position, wild card in each department. We know who he likes. We shouldn't have been surprised that Dan Burns going, for example, or Jordan Henderson. He's been signalling that for a long time. I think there's one, my one amp worry about it is by not picking Trent, not picking Palmer, not picking Wharton. I think that player who plays a different type of pass, that creative sort of spark to break open a tight game. I think he's gone without that one type and I think every other base is more or less covered, but that's my worry in that tight knockout game. Has he got that tool? But there's never a perfect squad. What he did was he avoided the mad, Capello, ledly king out of retirement or the Sven, the awoke up thing, so not bad. I'm sorry, I'll come on some of those questions that I think a lot of readers on the Times website and listeners were maybe asking in a minute because you did a brilliant piece kind of breaking down some of his decisions. But Matt, Johnny mentioned there some previous squads of the past and how we're always kind of slightly caught off guard with some mad decisions and the news breaking as it does. Were you surprised at the kind of level of reaction from the England fan base? The one thing that was consistent is that you often find out about these things by piecing it together by the people that start to leak are often the ones that have been left out. You'll get the angry agent, you'll get the angry representative. The point is we knew that there were 55 players that were in this provisional squad and there were 55 phone calls to make. And at that point once those phone calls are made and as much as the FA wanted to do this kind of new show on their new app, we've got a job to do and we did our dentist to find it out. What I thought was really fun and interesting about the first day, what was the fact that they wanted to do this big reveal and they wanted to protect that content and we were all going to find out on the show and like Dominos, one by one by one, the names came out. But I felt that things were going quite well from an FA point of view until Harry Maguire went rogue. And the minute he did and you were having a lot more of those conversations than I was on the Thursday, but the minute he put a statement out, it just felt like the gloves were off. Johnny's right, it's once someone sees that and again, because he's also public now, people see it, and others started to, there were very few players who had had the nice phone call that actually, I think to my knowledge, only one was confirming that he was in. And that was learning who was out and then one out of 26 was briefing that they'd been picked to my knowledge. And the thing I liked about it was, I think by Thursday night we had 25 of the 26 and Friday morning the task was to get the last one. And I thought it was a milieu of scally, and as wrong on that one, I think there was a bit of a thought it might be Trent. Nobody looked in the direction of J.E.D. Spent. It was like, nobody made the phone call that J.E.D. Spent. Exactly. Well that leads a lot nicely to Hamza. You wrote really interesting piece on the times I've said in the media aftermath of this, talking about decisions like that that Johnny said, you know, why J.E.D. Spent, just give listeners and viewers a little bit of a run for some of those kind of talking points. Why is Jordan Henderson in? Why did J.E.D. Spent get the nod over some of the players? What else was there in this excellent piece in terms of players? Some of the players that missed out, some of the players that are in just give us a little run through. Why no Gibbs, why, for example, some of the things like that? Let's start with Spent. This is on the slice and easy because Thomas Tuklick's winding himself. He's the fastest player in the squad. Having that top end speed is very valuable. We only need to look at the Premier League this season or the past five or so seasons to see the importance of physicality whether that be your size or your speed. Clubs often look to these qualities now. There's a group called Skill Corn that collect data and they have been very important and influential in popularising recruitment based on physical qualities. So when you see a player that's got high top end speed that gives you a game-change ability and this isn't a new thing. Carl Walker went to 2022, World Cup. That ability, Gareth South, thought about a lot. If in a big moment in a big game the ball is in behind who can save you in that moment. Fast guy will. Sometimes it's that simple. There is more beyond that as well. Tukl likes the way they can play on both sides so that gives you versatility. So that gives you depth left back and right back that gives you the ability to keep Conzer who can play right back as well or Gerald Conzer. The ability to keep them as a centre back option to give them a little bit of freshness. So yeah, you've got those qualities and he also said this is Tuckle that he really loves the way that Spence loves defending. That one was the one that I said. I didn't realise that. Tottenham fans probably agree with you as well. When the Latvia match we saw Spence pull out a Rabona cross and I really enjoyed that. That's what I like to see from my fullbacks. But never when watching Spence find out that someone that I think loves one-on-one's, those sort of contests. But when you get to work up close with someone in training, that dynamic is completely different. When you're winning against Latvia and you cross the ball then, yeah, sure, whatever. It looks cool. But when you get to work with someone closely, you see what they really like. And having a right for to go on the left, that means that you can set up against a Winger who plays on their opposite foot. So yeah, that bit is about tactical versatility. Henderson, Tom Stugler has been really keen on Henderson throughout his time. Because this is the one that ultimately sums up England fans and maybe even England journalists. Not listening to the manager. In reality, we knew that John Henderson was basically the first name on the plane, really. Despite whether he was playing well or not. I think Johnny, you said to me on Friday, even if he'd not been in the squad, you'd imagine he'd have gone as part of the coaching status. It speaks to a manager who's very keen on having some leaders in that dressing room, doesn't it? There's a moment, I think it was in March last year that really stuck with me. Harry Kane spoke with us as part of an England thing. There was one line. He said we're a little bit light on leadership at the previous Euro. So in Euro 2024. And that really stuck with me because you thought about all the stuff that Garas South get done to develop the group. And then that slight change that you made with the squad itself, he took out players like Henderson and so on. And I thought it was really telling that Kane actually off that of himself. Now, bringing some like Henderson back in helps with that respect. He has led Liverpool, had the Fall to Champions League, the Premier League, made three title tilts with them. That experience is quite useful and it's good to have a group of winners in the group in the squad. Now that doesn't necessarily mean anything as these two will know as in light. Exactly, right? I spoke to Paul Joyce about the same thing. He said the same thing as well. He said that didn't help in 2002. You had all these winners then. But I think when you look at previous squads, so the 2022 World Cup squad or the 2024 Euro squad, you go actually not that many players in that group have actually won big trophy such as Champions League or Premier League. So in 2024, you would have had John Stone's, Phil Foden, Karl Walker and then Trent. That's about it. Yeah. The big ones. Of course there's FA cups and league cups and now some under 21 euros guys as well. But I think that experience does help a bit. So yeah, he's someone that you're belling him in particular works really well with looks up to. And I think being able to keep your big players happy and training well is really, really important. You only need to look at the videos that Mohammed Salah put out recently about how people like James Melon, the origin of Henderson, kept up the standards in training. And in this potentially eight week block, you need someone who knows when to dial at the intensity and also when to ease off a bit. So having that liaison between the coaching staff and the players that are playing lots is important. Yeah, I think there's a number of qualities that Henderson offers beyond the stuff on the pitch, which makes it a good bit. I think he's an interesting selection though because I was talking to Phil Neville is one of our columnists for the World Cup. And the reason for that is because he's been coaching the MLS for quite a few years now and knows as well as anyone the challenges of playing in the US. And I think one of the factors, even though and I assume Henderson is still incredibly fit, but I think one of the factors in Tuckles thinking will be actually about fitness and about athletes. He needs athletes in America. Because even though we think the game is going to be a bit slower and because people have got to deal with the conditions, it's still going to be incredibly demanding physically. And actually because England start the tournament so late, you know, the last game starting on the 17th of June. If they do go through the tournament, they've got less recovery time than other teams. And Phil was making the point, we're going to have our first proper chat this week about the column. But he was making the point that even when it comes to things like, yeah, worrying, if England do end up in Mexico City playing at 8,000 feet, he certainly, his experience is that the older players, the less athletic players, you see how much more they suffer. And there's actually a 20, his physiologist up in Portland. It's all about a 20 minute line. And everyone has to get to the first 20 minutes. The first 20 minutes are really hard. I think of it playing match. Just dealing with the oxygen, the difference in oxygen levels. And then the fitter players will actually once they endure that first 20 minutes, will kind of start to acclimatise and get used to it. But the less fit players, the older players often, they slightly have been hit by a bus. Interesting. And I think some of his selections are over fitness. I want to come back to the heat and the climate and stuff in the second part of the show, but Johnny picking up on that. No, so one of the things that made the squad announcement so meaningful, I think, actually is, because of these factors, he's going to have to do more rotation than we got it didn't rotate a lot, didn't he? But I think this is going to be a World Cup for rotation. It's going to be a World Cup for special plans. So there's a lot of in-game, he called them special teams, almost the American football coach. But I think he's going to, what I mean is we're going to see the bench use the lot. Interesting. For special moments in game scenarios, set pieces, chasing a game, protecting a lead. And that tight turnaround means you can't play these games twice a week, I wouldn't have thought, for example. So of that 26-man squad, you know, with exception to goalkeepers, you think, I think they'll all get plenty of pitch time. Interesting. That's really, I think a lot of listeners and viewers might be then jumping on the back of that and going, well, that's where I have the problem with the squad. Hamza, you mentioned winners there, you mentioned Jude Bellingham. A year ago, I'd have expected this show to be dominated by who plays number 10, Phil Foden, Col Parmer, or Jude Bellingham. Well, two of them ain't going. So I think that's where maybe a lot of the reactions to the squad comes from. So I think people will be interested, Johnny, to hear you talk about the bench. Because as Matt, as you said with those midfielders, Thomas Tuchel and your analysis on the time's upside, it was about two for every position, and three wild cards, Dan Byrd, as a Ivan Tony. And that's all great. But then you two midfielders, when it's not Declan Rice in LA Anderson, is Jordan Anderson and Kobe Minor? Which Shinne World Cup might not quite cut it. And then also you then look at players like Phil Foden, Col Parmer, not being there. These are big calls, which, if they're right, Thomas Tuchel is going to look great. But as our colleague Martin Samuel wrote in the Sunday Times this weekend just gone, this is where he'll be, you know, this is a stick we'll be in with. Is it is if this is proved to be wrong? So I mean, what do you all think about that node in terms of maybe reflecting on the past and garas' outskate, but also on this idea, if you all agree with Johnny, that we're going to see a lot of rotational tactics. Johnny, I'll come back to you first. Yeah. He's given us plenty of sticks to beating with, hasn't he? If England don't succeed, although Matt and I both got experience of World Cup's where England would pick the stars and haven't picked the squad team. Yeah, right. And it's gone wrong. So this is a different approach. I think composition of the squad, the one thing that struck me is, and this is maybe him being Uber Germanically logical. He's talked about it being, we've got a 433 formation, therefore we've got a 977 squad, which is nine defenders, nine defenders, seven midfielders, seven forwards. Very few teams have gone with nine defenders. So I think there might be one too many there, and that's where the selection could have been, that's where you could have had a core parmer or a gives white. Or a gives white that. That's the people that would be going extra, people who sat on their couchs, weren't they, or in the pubs going, why is he not there? Why is he not there when we need someone to change a game? And he's going to try and win these games by team pattern, and I'm sure Martin would make this point sometimes you need the individual to come and do something. So that's where he's in this setup. He's just gone a little bit like there, but I think it is because he's looking on rotation all the time and keeping his blueprint pretty much the same by doing that. Matt, what do you think about Tugel in that guy's then as Johnny explained it there? It's been very clear cut in terms of his explanations. He's quite strident in his press conferences. As he always has always been, you know, relations slightly frosty with Jude Bellingham previously in his tenure on Friday came out and said, "Cold parmer, not good enough. Bill Foden, I don't know where he is anymore." Like as the editor of the day, Johnny was ringing in and I was going, "Really? Amazing, great lines." I was going to say, "Never criticize a guy for being candid." Not an ad-york, but it's quite striking, isn't it, when you think about not only the choices he's made, but how he then backs them up, is this like freeing thing of, you know, German guy in charge of England? And he's like, "I don't care, really? I just want to win the game." I think it's quite a thing. It's certainly very different to Gareth Safke. Yeah, but it is a bit more Fabio Copelo. You always felt, and look, these guys have won the European Cup. Right, so, but you always feel when you're in, and these, these two spend more time in two calls, sphere than I do. But you always feel when he sits with us that he thinks he's the cleverest man in the room. Right. But I think when you're England manager, you need to think you're the cleverest man in the room. So I don't have a problem with him thinking he's the cleverest man in the room because, let's be honest, he is the guy that's guided Chelsea to the European Cup and, you know, Champions League. And so I like the fact that he has such conviction. I like the fact that he is, you know, that he, that he hasn't necessarily just judged it on reputation and previous, previous trophies with their clubs and so on. I also share all the same concerns that everyone else does. You know, I'm not going to name names, but I had representatives of players who are in the squad contacting me last week going, oh my, oh my word. What's he done? Really? So because there is, we've all been talking about it that game and we've seen so many of them. We're England is just up against the brick wall and you just need someone to change it. And I do worry, as I think everyone does, is that he will look at that bench and not quite, not be entirely sure where that is going to come from. But as I say, what I like about Tuchel is, you know, sometimes I think he goes too far. I think he went a bit too far with his comments about bellying him at the time and he obviously regretted that and there was a little bit of a, you know, second language factor in that. But as I say, the journalist should be the last people to criticize him or be in the lot. I love the fact that he's brought. Yeah, keep it coming Thomas all the way through the World Cup. Hamza, just your final thoughts on some of the points the guys have made there, particularly maybe Johnny's assertion that this could be the World Cup of the bench of a lot of changes. I've maybe systems and tactics for specific scenarios. I think we actually got a look at what one of those scenarios might be in the Japan match. England needs a goal and they turn to Maguire and Bern. If anyone read the live blog, you would have just seen me saying this is a disgrace or whatever. Remember. I think I was sitting next to Martin and neither of us thought this was excessive football for an elite football side. Nonetheless, you can win matches like this and you can win tournaments like this. And as England played for corners and targeted the six foot seven bloke and I'm sorry, I don't know how to make wires hype, but he's pretty pretty tall. He's not sure. He's absolutely not. You could see the routines that England were using in terms of blocking and how they use out swingers and in swingers to create space for those guys to attack the ball. That right there was just a classic example of that's the plan. There's another example. I mean, Ivan Tony for Flickons to come mention this, but as in, again, if you are chasing a game, it's laid on and you need to kick long. You're going to play into Ivan Tony and he'll bring teammates into play. One of the worst things you can do is when you kick long and however many, you'll see this every week or when a team chases, they've got short guys up front and they'll kick long and you're thinking, what are you doing? You've just given away possession needlessly. But when you're under pressure, you make those mistakes. Having Tony there means that you can bring someone in and then you get Flick on and you play to Kane and then you get a shot off in the box. So I think we have a bit of an insight to how these things work. To be fair, England have done stuff like this before. You take the goal that Jude Bellingham scored at the 2024 Euros. That was a throwing routine that they'd worked on. That finished with an overhead kick though. What you're aligning to for me here is Ivan Tony, Flickon or Dan Bern at the back post here. The finish itself was, yeah, cool. As in England had worked that routine, they wanted Karl Walker to take long throws in that situation. So yeah, I think you see how this stuff works but everyone knows that the Mike Tyson quote right, you can have your plans but you get punched in the face. Then all those really well laid plans can go to waste and that's probably where you think okay, but who would respond when they've been punched in the face and then you're going, well, Cold Palmer looks like he wouldn't care, right? Or Adam Morton. Scott McTomany, but you can't pick him. Second and gratuitous mention of Scott McTomany. Been more on the England pod. So just very quickly then. Are we suggesting that this is not the general preview, this is the England show, but I feel like I have to ask, are we feel like we might see in this World Cup, Pam's and Johnny, a little bit of what we've seen in the Premier League this season, increased physicality and set pieces? It depends on the referees and I think we'll find out very quickly how the referees were approaching it. And I think I remember at the previous World Cup as well, there were a few blocking routines and very quickly the referees were keen to snap that out. If there is space to create a meat wall of players in front of the goalkeeper, then they will do that because it's really, really effective, but there's also space to be really imaginative. And if you look at recent goals by, for example, Arsenal against Fulham, the Jocqueurs goal, the Estonville against Liverpool, the Roger's goal, Estonville in the Europa League final, there are ways to be really inventive with set pieces that don't rely on excessive physicality. And what you have here with England are players that have access to the best domestic set piece coaches week to week and then are bringing that all together with the national team. But there will be other teams as well that have that experience. We see more along through as well, I've never seen. I was thinking, doesn't the ball travel further at altitude? Who's England Longfoga? Who would be on Longfoga? Good question. Who do you think? That's a really to check that. Maybe you'll go full-roy, and stick Harry Kane on. Harry Kane, some of them. Lauren Shanklin, does it? It does. Strikers can do it. Anyone who watched that match would have been looked at, when I said that match, I mean, the hearts, Celtic match last game of the season and see Lauren Shanklin, near the halfway line, picking up way. What is Strikers doing there? And then they'll get hammered up there, that was a position to. They'll be back clear of the scores. Absolutely. A really fascinating insight so far. We've got loads more to come in. Part two, big time for a little break time for a quiz question. We've got an England theme one for the guys. Going back to the 2014 World Cup. When it comes to England squads at major tournaments, what do Frank Lampod, Adam Lelana, Jordan Henderson and Trent Alexander-Armond all have in common? Find out after the break. Welcome back to the game. Football podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. This is our special World Cup preview show all about England. I'm Tom Clark and I'm joined by the time support team who are going to be with the England camp throughout the tournament. I've got Hamza Khalid Lunat, Johnny Northcroft and Matt Lawton. Matt very cautiously going for the answer to the quiz question, but you did get it right. What united those players, Lampod, Lelana, Henderson and Trent squad numbers? Yes, I didn't get the number, but I was being kind to him. Number eight, everyone forgets Trent Alexander-Armond over the last year as war number eight. One of Garas Southgate's desperate attempts. One of the great examples of what the guys were talking about in the first half of the show, cramming in those superstars. Matt, I wanted to talk about the England-based England camp. I keep referring to you guys being in the England camp. It's going to be in Kansas. You've been there. You've visited it. You've done a brilliant piece for the Times website. You did a lovely video on the Timesport social channels as well. What a pro. Tell us a little bit about the location. What England can expect, why they've picked it. Then we'll get into a little bit of why this is so important and how much time governing body spend on this. Tell us a bit about Camson. Look, the key reason they're there and the key reason that Argentina, the Dutch and Algeria are there is location. If you look at the map of the US, it's slap bang in the middle and the teams clearly take the view that being in the middle and trying to cut travel time depending on which direction you end up going across. The whole of North America and Mexico is that because everyone thought and actually when we were talking to the host, the guys that are hosting England, everyone thought that Messi was going to want to be in Miami. Right. Into Miami's training ground. That's not the case. They two have chosen Camson City. It makes a lot of sense to me because it's quite a small city. It's the smallest of all the host cities. It makes it very easy to get around. The journey between their hotel, despite the fact that it crosses a state line, which is hilarious because as I said in the piece, you can actually, you can smoke dope on one side of the line but you can't on the other. Neither the map. Well, I was going to say team times will be stumbling out there, joining us every time we go. It's about a 20 minute commute but they won't hit any traffic. It's a really accessible city. The city centre is quite compact but very nice. I stayed in the hotel where Travis Kelsey and Patrick Mahomes actually have a restaurant didn't get to eat there. Did Gourdy in the England team hotel now having terrible trouble getting that through expenses because it was over our limit. They put it on YouTube. They're going to get it through now. Anything that they've guaranteed. The account is there on the stand that I had to eat there to for the peace. It was expensive. For journalism guys. I think they'd have three courses with a couple of beers. But you know, but it was very nice in the England. No, the hotel is lovely. It's very open. As someone that went to was actually, you know, I was one of the handful of journalists that stayed in the infamous Wags Hotel in Barden Barden. Right. Because most of the media were in another very nice hotel. Barden Barden's a beautiful place. Yeah, very. Most of the media were in this area. hotel, that was like the official media trip, but some of us didn't want to be on the media trip. And actually, it was quite by accident. We booked this other hotel at the Brenner Park, and then subsequently found out, and some of my colleagues who actually stopped this from happening, when the wags found out that we were in the team, they tried to have us kicked out. - Really? - Yes, true, yeah. - That was great. - But anyway, they failed in that bid to have us tapped out of the hotel. So we all ended up in there. And it reminded me of that, because the thing about the back of the Brenner Park was that it was his lovely gardens, and then there was this river, and then it was more partland the other side. And the funny thing was that they, after a few days, and they'd perhaps even taken all the pictures of the wives and girlfriends and family, and never, never know all these people, that they had these screens put up, but they actually, such was the desire to be in the media, that the wives and girlfriends then asked for the screens to come back there. But anyway, and it was utter bedlam. - Utter bedlam. - But it will, obviously that's not going to happen here. We still don't quite know where families are going to stay. - Yeah. - I was very interested. I was at a police, football police press conference ahead of the World Cup last week. And there are going to be a thousand friends and family members at every England game. - 1000. - 1000 people. Just linked to the planes, what, and friends and family. So when they broke down the numbers, it was like, for each game, the rough breakdown was about 3000 members of the official travel England travel club. So 3000 official fans. Then they reckon about 7 or 8000 ex-pats, so people that live in the US that support England. But yeah, the most staggering number was a thousand friends and family, the FA have told. - Goodness, man. - They're about. And I don't know where they're going to be. They can't stay at the Inet Mettabrück. There's only got 55 rooms. But it's a lovely little hotel in the most gorgeous neighborhood. We're just up the road in a house. It's slightly less lubeous area. But we are actually on the same road. At times, HQ. But, and it's just, it's very close to where Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift live. And I was told, I probably shouldn't be saying this, but I was told that if you pay 90 quid for around a golf, you can virtually see into their back garden. Because they're on this gated community near a golf course, apparently. I don't know where it is. - All the insight. - But no, so, so, so, so it's in a near area called Leewood. - Right. - And Prairie Hills. That's where it is. So if you imagine that the sort of team hotel's there, and then the Swope Village where the trainer ground is, is sort of up there, six centres there. You do cross the state line, which I find hilarious, because it is actually, it's called state line road. - Right. - And so, you, and you've got houses either side. - Yeah. - So, literally, our different laws. For the person that lives directly off to you, that you might pull their bins out. - That's great. - They actually live under different laws. - Great. - So, as I say, you can smoke cannabis on one side of the road, but you can't on the other. There's certain things about buying alcohol on one side of the road and on the other. In terms of then this, the trip as well, just to back to your piece as well, because you've talked about the hotel. You go to the training ground as well. - Yeah. - You had a look around. - Yeah, the training ground. - No, so, so, so, because, because I'm sure they'll make it nice by the time we go back, but because England aren't planning Kansas City, the teams that are, in particular, the Argentina and the Dutch, they got first refusal. So, England are actually in the training ground that was once occupied by the Kansas City Chiefs. Then was the MLS team's training ground. But, since they built this super duper, $75 million training ground, which the Argentina's have snapped out, the Dutch are in the women's team training ground, which was part funded by Patrick Mahomes wife. She's a big investor in the women's team. And that training ground is really nice. The one that England have is actually now occupied by the academy. - England are in that. - And me down training ground. - As I said to the guys earlier, when you stand out on those pitches, they're lovely. They're exactly the same as everyone else's pitches. They're all made with the same period of grass. And actually, the environment we're in in the playing, I prefer. It's very green, very lush. Lots of trees. Whereas the Argentina training ground, it feels a bit like you're on a junction of the M25. It's sort of on a highway. Very accessible, but not as pretty. I think actually, when you're out there on the pitch with the balls, the England one is nicer. It's just the facilities are as modern. They're putting in it, it hadn't been put in yet. There's going to be this massive marquee with this state of the art gym. I think it'd be fine. And because it's so easy to get back to the hotel, things like the hypochamers, they'll all be back there. All the food will be done back there. Like the one thing about that meal that I had, those chefs won't be there. They're all getting turfed out. The England, they're all being furloughed for a month. England will have their own chefs. It's like it. And it's a lovely environment. I get why two because I picked that hotel. When you're describing it there, Matt, it made me think of 2018. Repino was a very small kind of, isn't the fanciest hotel. The forest rest, I think it was with three stars. Quite a modest training ground as well, if you remember. But what they went for was a bit of seclusion, but a piece in quiet intimate feel. I mean, Alwhaqqla and Qatar was quite similar as well. It wasn't a great training ground, but they again went for a smaller hotel that they could customize. I mean, they've been doing this for so long now. The FF have got a special team of people who go in. Yeah, really. They'll make it nice. They'll make it in Qatar, they put it up as in so they go over beforehand and change the hotel for England. So they sort of, they'll make it home from home. Yeah. So in Qatar, they came with all these artworks. So there was like Bakaio Saka on the unicorn in the swimming pool. I kind of bought Arty picture of that and Arty pictures of Kayne and Rashford and so on. They built a basket ball court. They'd put a juice bar in. They loved the outdoor dining vibe. That's what's been big for England. So they put in a patio area for the play Uno and watch La Valle and the whatever it was. And I'm sure they'll do the same. I'm sure they'll be takeover of that hotel. So when they walk in and took up to spoke about how in America it's quite difficult to find hotels that are under, you know, under 200 rooms, under 400 rooms even. So to find something really 55 rooms. It's a small, was a massive thing. They think they think the meat that's a bit of a cue to get in. There's a park, it's a residential neighbourhood. It's obviously very posh. But there will be people that can sit on their balconies because it's like there's lakes and there's a park and then you've got all these lovely apartment blocks and there will be people sitting on their balconies going, oh there's Jubilee and Memorandicoffey. It'll be that open. Interesting. But they do think about everything. And Jubilee and Memorandicoffey is part of it because one of the points of having a small hotel with grounds is that players can leave. They can walk out and have a coffee in the garden or whatever. If you're in one of the bigger kind of more sort of five-star but you know, lift-seller-vators, city centre, players can't even get outside. So just being able to do all that sort of stuff. So big operation isn't it in terms of moving around as well the tournament. Hamza, just tell us a little bit more about because these squads that go out there, it's not just about 26 players, Thomas Tuchel and a couple of coaches. There's a raft of other people who are going out with them as well aren't they? England will be preparing for everything. Yeah, you've got lorries full of stuff. Matt has already mentioned the gyms because there's gym there but they want their own stuff. So they will take this stuff that they have at St George's Park and that will be. They'll take their own gym. They'll take the St George's gym to America. They'll have like the. Matt can explain their gym best than I can but as in you'll have your walk bikes or your equipment like that. The stuff they're used to basically. Yeah. Yeah. They'll then. They tend not to fly stuff where possible because stuff can get damaged. In fact, they'd like to drive stuff but obviously you're going to have to fly stuff from the UK to the US. And you usually have. There's a kitman called Pat Frost who has been doing England for a long time and does it. A lot of the Premier League teams as well. So him and his team usually take care of this sort of stuff and they will drive across the US. And they'll do it from the European matches. They will leave one, two weeks before a match to get their stuff all the way over to Albania or Serbia or Latvia that like to pick up three matches that England played in European qualifying. Some podcasts say. Yeah. We've got some good playlists. Just to return on what you mentioned earlier. And I think Matt again might be better positioned to explain this but as in you actually lose performance for every hour lost to time zone change, right? Your HRV heart rate variability. Ideally you want high variability I think. Yes, absolutely. But for every hour that you move from your time zone as you fly that decreases and that means your sharpness goes. Matt again, you might be better positioned to explain this. You're saying it's absolutely right. It does. Yeah. I actually. My brother who's a doctor explain this to me just the other day because I flew back from Kansas to didn't sleep all night, then woke up on the Saturday morning with my body clock said it was 1am and went out with my mates on the bike and I felt absolutely like I was dying. And he actually explained the sort of biology behind that. So yeah, Hamza is absolutely right and I should have said that. Another factor is is minimizing, you know, how many times zones you cross when you go to every game. Fascinating. I totally get why they're doing it. I think they're really smart. Really, perhaps. In terms of their heat, just to finish then, heat, we've discussed it in the first half of the show. Do you think that done enough to prepare for this heat? Or can you just never prepare for this heat? Don't know. That's fast. I mean, they're giving us a presentation to the work of Steve Kemp, who's the sort of performance head and has really been hot on this. But we don't know because nobody seems to really crack that science and altitude in this setting, in this tournament setting. They're going to be doing a bit of work with people who've worked with the British Olympians. They've did sort of biometric tablets last year. They put players in sweat tents, got them pedaling on the bike, gave them. It's essentially like a digital thermometer and a pill that you swallow and then it beams back your core temperature. So they did all that work on the players that were out in Spain last year with all of this in mind. And one of the sort of buzz phrases that they've been talking about is this world couple be one in the planning as much as the playing so that they go massive on this. Interesting. But part of me just wonders whether Argentina would turn up with just give the bought messy and not do any of this. The end of the 21s they played their European championship last summer in Slovakia. Again it was really hot. They also had heat tents. One of the things that the FA were. And people at the FA were quite keen on stressing was that they believe that they would grow into the tournament. And if you look at the. That was also because of the tactics in some players were unavailable because of the club ball cup and so on. But if you look at the way that the team played, take the second match against Czech Republic. Super hot, tough conditions, very slow sluggish turd, turdured match. And then you look at how fresh and well they played when they picked up a bit of momentum later on in the tournament as they built through it. And the players had acclimatised and adjusted and they had all that. They had those sessions in the heat tents. I think there is a logic to that as well that you can develop through a tournament. You can acclimatise. It takes a little bit of time as Matt has explained before to adjust to altitude specifically. But as you get into that rhythm in a tournament, you can build towards it and usually you will try from a sports science perspective to build in some sort of peaks and drops. There will be slower days and there will be days where you are ready to. You're primed, ready to attack them. And I think that we'll try and set them up so they are primed for the knockouts. It's just really quickly that the point of the heat tablets is that everyone's body is different. So it's established that every person is going to need a slightly different programme. I mean the proof will be in the pudding of course, but it sounds like they're pretty well prepped. This England camp and they have been in this guys for a long time. This is the legacy of Gavis Southgate. The world has moved on a lot since Peter Reeve was chucking back trying to chase Maradona. Yeah. They're at the forefront of sports science and as Johnny was saying, it's tapping into that British Olympic expertise because we've seen it over the years. An athlete at distance from her is talented as Paul Raghcliffe, but in Athens, when would have been her sort of peak time of her career to try and win the Olympic marathon. In Athens, sometimes there's just nothing you can do. Her body was not. It's just struggled in the heat compared to the way she could run a marathon in April and in London or in November in New York and she suffered massively. Everyone's different and I'm sure because the FA can't get into this. They can't tell us that certain players actually cope really badly in the heat, but they will have the data on every individual they've looked at. I'm sure that would be in effect in every selection decision. Because I think physically it's going to be an incredibly demanding talk. Yeah, some of the things that we can never know, but maybe we'll see play out on the pitch. Let's bring it back then to the players and what might happen and let's finish with some predictions. Johnny, I'll come back to the squad and a conversation we had. We actually had it on this SNAP reaction podcast that we gave you last week on the morning of the squad being confirmed. When I put it to you that actually amongst this squad, I think most people, journalists and fans alike could roughly pick the starting 11 for the team now if we could with a few question marks. And I would say we've got Jordan Pickford in goal, Reese James at right back, shout in at any point if I'm getting these wrong. Nico are Riley at left back, Mark Wei at centre back and then the first question mark over concert. Concert or stones, if stones is fit to play, but you bet on concert the moment, but stones might be a man that comes in when experiences need to be done. Then Declan Rice, an Elliott Anderson, Elliott Anderson, what a journey he's had as well. I think about a year ago all the question marks over who can play next to Declan Rice. We found the answer to that. I think you've got Pekai O'Sacca back for Arsenal, much needed for them and for England. And then probably the two other question marks. Who is the number 10 Morgan Rogers or Drew Bellingham and who is the left Winger, Anthony Golden or Marcus Rashford with that buffet? I think it's absolutely bang on. I mean, I think the one that's going to fasten it everyone is Rogers or Jude in the number 10. My money at the moment would be a Morgan Rogers. Interesting. And probably Rashford on the left. I think when you again, when you go back through it, the sort of ground zero for Tucco was the five-no against Serbia. That's where it all started from really after his teething troubles. And I think he'll go as close to that team as he can and Morgan Rogers had a signature performance that night. Will that mean Anthony Golden as well? Did he start that game? I think he did. Yeah, maybe that one's more because Rashford came on and scored. So maybe. And has finished this season strong as well. And he loves Rashford. But yeah, I think Harry Kane might start from, I think, just for Kane. For clarity, he probably gets the nod. So that's why I think Rogers is slightly ahead. And what Tucco likes is combinations of players. I think he thought the midfield, him Anderson and Rice worked really well together. And he's big on trying to move the ball through that middle zone quickly to play the game higher up the pitch. And I think he feels that Rogers does that. Jude wants to have a few more touches. Yeah. I'll come onto that theme exactly in a second but Matt, you're shaking your head at the notion that Jude Bellinger will not start foring in the locker. Yeah, I think Rogers has been terrific. But it's all very well leaving behind players like Palmer and Foden at my word. If we're going on the pitch without one of the best players in the world. It is crazy, isn't it? I think the other. What is it, 48 teams? I think the other 47 would be, I think, lost their minds. But it could well happen. No, no, I think it could. There were people I was speaking to last week that convinced it will happen. Interesting. But I just look for all the sort of slight issues that Tukamai have had with Bellium, the fact that he wouldn't speak to the media in the in the in the last European Championship. Look, that's not an issue for us. That's not a journalist complaining. It annoys the other players. The team makes it. If they're not a rota. If one player is being treated as a special case. So there are slight teething problems with what they have been with Jude. But I just think he's such a dynamite talent that the team should be built around him. It shouldn't even be for me. And look, these guys cover more football matches than I do. I have a different job. But I just. I don't get that. Hamza, then on that point then, and bringing in that point, Johnny made that Tukamai's reference, the area of the pitch where play can get squash and suffocated and he wants to turn and get it higher up the pitch. Explain that a little bit for us and also maybe give you a view on the Rogers Bellingham scenario. Let me start on the second point first. There's a coach that I know that worked with Jude Bellingham and he described him as the boy wonder. He said that how could you not build the team around him? Was there view on him starting or not? As Matt says, that dynamite quality to just take a game and deliver moments, you saw the Euros and you've seen the Champions League as well, he gives you the wins games. And those qualities are the simplest quality to be decisive. That is what separates the very, very best players from the rest. If you can perform in moments which are crucial, then you are one of the best players. And if you think about the game slightly differently and see opportunities that other don't, that also sets your part as a great player, that imaginative quality and I think Bellingham has both things. Your first point, sorry, was. In terms of why it might not be him and some of the points Johnny made about why Morgan Rogers offers something slightly different in turning the game quicker, maybe not taking the touches that Bellingham takes. I think probably the best place to start is how they play without the ball and Rogers is a better presser. I don't think anyone will disagree with me, actually. Yeah, he's more diligent in the way that he presses, more intense. He has a better regard for space around him as well, and that's really important. So when you press, you've got to understand where are your teammates and where are your opponents around you? Because if you just run emotionally, then you could leave your midfielders in a 2v3 situation where you've got two players in the opposition of three. So when the ball gets bounced around you, suddenly they've got three midfielders, they knock it around, your midfielders and they're breaking forward and it's a counter-attack. So you've got to be really, really diligent and smart in the way that you press. And I think Rodgers has that as a. that is the one area where he has a very significant advantage over Bellingham. You can then get into issues of who can pass better, who can think that. All that sort of stuff. That could be a whole show, Hamza. But then it's actually much closer, and whilst you're probably lean on saying, "Well, Bellingham is a better goal scorer, he's a better player in terms of finding space in the box, he's more creative." You're going from a 9 out of 10 to a 8 or 7 out of 10 when you're comparing him to Rodgers. You're not really losing too much there, but when you compare the out of possession dynamic, Rodgers has that advantage and it took an of them. He spoke really, really fondly about him. But I think the key bit is how he plays out of possession and understands the role and also how he understands his role in relation to Keynes. That he gives Keynes space and that he links with him is really important. If you go back to the 2024 euros, there weren't many passes between the two. And you look at the Albanian match, I think the two passes between them. Bellingham and Keynes. Do you want a good number 10, number 9 dynamic when you've got a 9 like Keynes? This is a point, you know, we're talking building teams around players. This is how he Keynes team. That's how Thomas Tuckle sees it and fascinatingly he was talking about bringing in Ivan Tony partly because Keynes and I like playing with this guy. Again, when it comes to the choice of the 10, I think how he Keynes requirements, that would be one, that would be almost the first question, Thomas Tuckle asks us what suits. Interesting. Chaps, we could keep talking about this for hours, as I said, we could have done Morgan Rogers VG, Bellingham for an hour, but got a wrap up with a couple of quickfire things. Firstly, I'm now convinced that Dan Bern is the most important player off the bench after Hamza's comments in part one. Any other suggestions for players that could be Key off the bench or maybe in these games that we're talking about for rotation? Who are the key players from rotation for you that you're looking at in that squad, Johnny? Well, we've covered Tony a little bit for a special place. I think Ezra, we haven't mentioned him. Now, given he's left Palmer and Ferdinand behind, Ezra is arguably gone ahead of those two, not Rogers and Bellingham, we're always going to go. We've seen him transform Arsenal at a key point where they needed that little something. I think he could be the head and wild card. Funnily enough, looking at the squad today, people like Jarrel Consos are going to be quite important, I think. Tina Levermento is going to be the unsung guys and the squad might stand before by how well they can not start in games, but just how well they can go in and relieve the other guys and give them a good half an hour here and there. Boy, it sounds like Jarrebellingham's the ultimate impact sell. That could be it. 20 minutes off the bench for Jarrebelling. It's a 100 million pound impact sell. Yeah, fantastic. We're going to win. Hamza, any suggestions for you? I think God plays. Kobe Mayne was going to be really interesting. That he hadn't played much early this season meant that he is one of the few players that will actually be fresh coming into this. Just comparing to Declan Rice and Elliot Anderson, who have played hard this season. Perfect World Cup preparation. Yeah, because they've logged 4,000 up to 5,000 minutes, which is just a lot in the legs. Mayne hasn't. He's done a lot of work with some coaches recently on building his speed as well. So he noticed that that was a weaker area of his. So if you look at him now, he's bigger, he's stronger. Despite everyone thinks he's a small guy because he was 18, but he's quite tall as well. And now he's fast as well. So I think he will become a genuine option at number 8. I do wonder though if they've got enough coverage six because Anderson, like I said, he's in the red zone already and the red zone is a sports science term about, which relates to your physiological load. The cover for him is Henderson. As we discussed before, older players might might struggle a bit in heat and altitude. Henderson, actually, Liverpool had this record where if he average a certain amount of minutes over three matches in a week, he'd usually pick up an injury. Right. Oh, God. So you then, excuse me, think about who's the cover player there. I'm not sure that Mayne can cover as a six. Then you couldn't move rice there. You lose a lot of quality that he brings as a number eight there. So I think that's going to be a really interesting dynamic and it would be a bit of a worry area, actually, if anything. You started off saying he's important and now you've got me worried by the end of it. We'll see if that goes the same way with this one. Let's finish with our predictions. I'm not going to, how far can England go? Every time I've done the Times World Cup predictor on the website, I've had England basically get into the final and then I can't quite bring myself to click on them to win it because they're either facing France or Spain. I think they've got a great chance in this tournament. Guys, how far do you think England can go? My big worry is if they do win the group and I think it's a big if because, you know, I was watching the FA Cup final and thinking, "Blime, we're playing that bloke's going to be up front for Ghana." And then I feel it's a bit like when we were in 'Totty' in 2012. We're going to be right about this 40-year-old genius who's been playing for Croatia. But no, I think the big hurdle is if they win the group, it's going to be 8,000 feet against Mexico. I think that's going to be really tough. I know on paper you speak Mexico, but I think at the Estecca Stadium against Mexico at 8,000 feet and it sounds like we're just going to drop in there and think we can deal with that those conditions. You know, it's a story we need to get into to try and actually understand how they're preparing for those challenges. But I think that's going to be really difficult, Hamza. Back was logic is never great, but there's doing anyway. England ranked fourth in the world. So I think the semifinal should be the minimum that they aim for this to be considered a sort of successful tournament from there. Well, if you win a semifinal you're in the final. So. Let's finish with a perfect bit of journalistic impartiality by finishing with the words from a Scotsman on England's chances at this workup, Johnny. We've talked about Tukal and his character, Erlion. I think the thing with him is he can win it or it could be a disaster. It's one of the fascinating things about covering him. It's been his whole career, but he does give England that ability to win, as I say, you also, it could be a pebble all over again. I think Matt's a really good point in terms of like the draw. I was looking at it again today and maybe haven't fully digested how difficult England's draw is. You know, when the group and it could be Senegal in around 32, Senegal, pretty decent, but it's a good mix of City, Brazil, Argentina, Spain or France, I mean. Doodle. I don't know where the problem is. It's in the back. It's in the back. It's going home. But, you know, tough. Right. If you write a prediction, last four, but that's it. Last four, but that's it. Triumph or disaster was the other line I was enjoying from there, Johnny, because it was journalists. That's what we love. Triumph or disaster. We'll have to leave it there. Hamza, Clicloon at Matt Lawson and Johnny Northcraft. Thank you very much for joining me. Make sure you're following all these guys on all the social media platforms and keep up to date with them on the Times website as well. They are the best team to be following England at this tournament. Thank you very much for joining us and listening. Make sure you're following us as well. We'll be back with some more World Cup preview shows very soon. We'll see you then.