Working Moms vs. Stay-at-Home Moms | The Bridge

My youngest daughter, she is autistic and a lot of people don't know that. And, you know, so I was taking her to therapy a lot and I can't manage that. I manage, I don't know why this is, this part is making me emotional. But, but yeah, people don't know what struggles your face is. Yeah. Well, I don't know where this is coming from. You're being authentic and brave because people don't know your story and so people don't care and they just end up in a judgment so good for you. Yeah. Like, seriously, you are an amazing mom. So you just have to know, you know, your mom instinct what you think is best in that moment. Hello everyone and welcome to the bridge on the Dr. Daph Show. I'm Dr. Michelle Daph and I'm thrilled to guide you to another impactful conversation. Here on the bridge, we bring together women with differing perspectives to share their stories, find understanding and uncover the connections that unite us as women. Today's conversation is one that many women and families navigate in their own lives. The choice between being a working mom or a stay at home mom. For some, this decision is driven by personal passion or financial necessity. For others, it's guided by deeply held beliefs or societal expectations. But, behind every choice lies a story, a sacrifice at a unique perspective. In this space, we're not here to debate who has it easier or which cost is better. Instead, we're here to explore the realities, the challenges and the joys that come with each role. What motivates their decisions, how do they balance their responsibilities, and what can we all learn from their experiences? So, as we dive into this conversation, I encourage you to listen with curiosity and compassion. Let us meet our incredible guests and hear their stories. First prompt. I envy the other side. All right. Okay. Let's hear from you. Before I was pregnant, I was very much always working. I was in college before I got pregnant. And I worked. As a full-time college student, I was still working, so I had a lot of side hobbies on the side. So, that was the kind of lifestyle that I was used to. And when I became pregnant with my son, I became very fidgety all the time and I felt like I had to work. I had to be doing something. I had to be very productive. And I'm still kind of like that, even as a mom. With a one-year-old, I still feel like I should be doing something and bringing something into the home besides taking care of my baby. But I know that's just mom guilt. Yeah. Thank you. I have tremendous admiration for women who stay at home with their children. It's the toughest job in the world. And I would have loved to have continued to stay home with my boys. I did stay home the first nine months to one year. I, for financial reasons, I did return to work. And while working, I did think a lot about my boys at home and what they were doing if they were being well taken care of. But as time went on, and as I got into school and I was able to work out with my employers to be able to go on field trips or attend special classes, art, art and action or whatever it was there and be able to pick them up from school as well. Thank you. I feel like a lot of it has to do with like the flexibility. I think a lot of why I was able to work while being a mom, I had this amazing boss. My daughter was two and I worked for an attorney at the time and he would let me bring my daughter to work. And she would sit, she'd color all day, she'd be in his office. And he would look at my schedule for school so that I could finish college and then work out with my schedule. So I feel like you also, I just got lucky that I got to finish college, you know, work for somebody who valued school but also me being able to be with my baby and not like put financial hardship on paying for daycare. You know what I mean? I feel like it really just depends like where you're at like job wise and the person themselves whoever your employer is, like they could be very difficult or they can be very open to allowing that, you know, like a child to come to their workplace. So it just depends. But you said that you don't envy being a stay at home mom so it's not something you would want to do. Oh no. Why is that? No, I like working, yeah, like I like working. I don't know, I just, I don't know, I like having stuff to like go by myself. Like being able to do stuff for my family, like just me like planning vacation solely because I want to go and you're not really having to ask or like budget but that's a personal thing like, you know, with me. Well financial freedom. I can say that you have to know yourself. So you already know that like you're the person who's fidgety, I'm super fidgety. So if I'm like back to the corner, I can only do one thing, you know, that's not fulfilling for me. Do you know, I have to have my hands and many things and have some kind of balance. And to your point, being a stay at home mom is super hard. I mean, you have all your emotional everything in this human being 24/7 non-stop and you don't get paid for it. So it's something I don't envy. It's something I definitely admire but I know myself. I'm not going to go crazy. I have to have balance. I need some kind of emotional space to fulfill who I am as an independent human being. And then, you know, also fuel my maternal instincts at the same time in the same lifetime. Does that mean sense? It does. Question for you ladies, when you are out and about and people ask you what you do, how do you feel about saying that you are stay at home mom without having to give some sort of extra explanation? I used to be a doctor. I used to be this, but just being able to just say it freely and feel confident about it. Are you struggling with that? Is that something that's easy for you? No, I feel confident because I was a farmer chemist. Then due to my health reasons, I had multiple surgeries. I took back, I stayed home. I looked after my kids. I became manager for my physician husband. And then I became like teacher for my kids. I taught them morals, math, science, everything. Then I'm a mom is here for them. You're a mom is there? Yes. I'm just in that song right now. Love it. Yeah. I am also very similar. I'm very confident when I say, I'm like, oh, I'm going to say home mom. And I know a lot of people may look at that like, oh, why is she so excited? But it's because I know I do have a background in my college background. I do have a degree and that's always something that I can fall back on. And I know that this is just very temporary for me. It's a very temporary position I'm in. And even though I'm internally struggling with it, I know at the end of the day, my son's smile is what's keeping me going. And that's what makes me very overjoyed to share that I must stay at home mom. Thank you. I love you. So I actually kind of, so I was a nurse. I worked full time and I kind of slowly faded out of working. I worked full time and I went part time and then I went what's called perdium where you just kind of work as needed. And when I was working perdium, a lot of times if people would ask me, oh, what do you do? I would say I must stay at home mom because I felt like because I wasn't working full time. I felt like that meant I wasn't working. So I guess that is kind of interesting to think back to that time that like because I wasn't full time working that meant that I was this day at home. My husband had always told me like, no, you still work. You still contribute. You still go to work. You still hold that side of yourself. But yeah, I never really thought about it until right now that I would immediately just say, oh, I stay at home because I wasn't full time dedicated to work the way I used to be. Right. Thank you. When I first found out that I was going to be a mom, there was a woman who I really looked up to who inspired me. And she was a stay at home mom full time. And I was with her one time for brunch and somebody came up to her and asked her what she did for a living. And she said, I'm a doctor. I'm a lawyer. I'm a teacher. Yes. She just made that healthy thing. And I was so confused. And then she said, I'm a mom. And I was like, wow, this really makes sense. And then the more that I got into this role, just some of the things that children need in development, all of those things are part of being a mom. So I feel like it's not only full time responsibility, but it's so diverse and there's so many skills that women need to really nurture their children. Thank you. And for you ladies, not being able to stay at home with their children full time, you You did miss out on things. You're not seeing every single thing. you are missing out on moments and things of that nature. How does that affect you as a mom knowing that you weren't always going to be there for your child for everything? I have a comment. I've been able to be self-employed pretty much my whole life. I didn't always have to be at a job or I didn't always have to be home. But I managed to figure out a way to be able to work in my home and my children were absolute angels about the things that I had to get done for my work. So it was a really good lesson for them at young ages to see someone work. I fortunately also was able to do all the school duties. I donated a lot of time because I was very flexible that way. But I'm somewhat of a workaholic anyway. So I mean I just don't turn off it at 6 p.m. even though it would be dinner time at like 5.30 or whatever. And then I would continue to move on with three boys that needed to exercise, then do their homework. And then I would do a lot of my work at the same time they were doing their homework. But I was right there. And I think what you said about you don't have to be shy about who you are. We are work caretakers, we're everything. We're nurses, doctors, psychologists. I mean how many times have you seen maybe something happened to one of your children that really affected them. And they're depressed. I mean it's human emotion. So we actually wear many different hats. Thank you. So that's my comment. It's like Tasha? Sure. I know that in the first five years of my boys' lives I didn't miss out on a lot of their milestones. And I would go to pick them up from the caretaker and they would tell me, "Oh, you know, he did this today and this happened and I would feel so bad that I wasn't able to be part of that." But I tried to make up for it in the time that we did have together, either in the evening or on the weekends, and spend good, nice quality time with my boys. I wanted to make a comment also related to the lawyers and the psychologists. I listened to a podcast a couple days ago and the woman was saying that if it would cost a family $200,000 a year or something like that, if they hired. I was someone to cover all the things that we do as a mom. I thought that was fascinating. Oh yeah. It is. It is. Because women can do multitasking. If you count everything we do, it will be it on that. Over time. You know, it is interesting for this question because I am not a person that lives in a space of I missed out or have too many grits. But I will say I was thinking about my momhood and my mom journey and I realized during the pandemic we were all stay at home moms. I was lucky to keep my job during the pandemic, but during the pandemic I got to see my daughter go to school. I got to go to school with her. I got to make the lunch. I got to stay and I was like, oh my god, I have been missing out. This is the most incredible time that I have ever had in my entire life is living and working right next to my kid. I only did that because it was the pandemic, but it really gave me a strong appreciation of learning how she learns, understanding how she is taking the math assignment, figuring out what I can do to enhance that. I didn't use it as this time to be sad or just not have a game plan. I said, we are going to roll their sleeves up. I am so happy that I am employed. So we are okay. We are not rich like Kardashian is there anything. But we are able to sustain in our bubble and I am able to be right there with her learning and growing and it was incredible. During the pandemic I realized this is motherhood. This is what it is about. It really gave me a sense of appreciation. I think from the pandemic I haven't changed. I do get to work from home and I work in marketing and sales. So I am on the road a lot. But my mind and the way a parent hasn't changed since the pandemic. I make sure that I will do the homework with her and I wasn't doing that before. I wasn't really understanding what she was understanding with math or English or anything. But now I take an active participant role in her education. I am right there with her teacher and her assignments. And I guess I am grateful for that. To have that balance and to have that full stop during the pandemic was a godsend for me. Because it was like pay attention and she was third grade when that happened. So I am glad that it happened at that time. Because any later it might have been too late. It would not have been as building in such a good foundation if it was during any other time. But let's face it. Even these concepts of a stay at home mom or a working mom are all dictated by culture and the times that we are in. But what drives culture today? The media and the news. And as we know, navigating the news these days can feel overwhelming. Between the rapid spread of misinformation and the influence of algorithms pushing sensational stories. It's hard to know what's true and what's skewed. That's why I am excited to share a tool that has completely changed the way that I consume news. And the sponsor of today's video. Ground news. Created by a former NASA engineer, ground news gather articles from over 50,000 news sources worldwide. In one place to empower people like you and me to see the full picture. For every story you get context on each source's bias, factuality and who owns the source. Let's take a recent story. Pope Francis appoints first woman to lead major Vatican office. Over 150 sources have covered it. And ground news' bias distribution chart shows exactly where those sources lean. It's fascinating to see a mix of Catholic outlets and other perspectives all laid out in one place. What's even more eye-opening is how language shapes a narrative. For example, headlines from the left employ celebratory language. Enphasizing the appointment as a historic step for women in the church. While the right uses neutral language, focus on reporting. Making the appointment seem procedural. One of the most eye-opening features for me is the blind spot feed. Which highlights stories that one side of the political spectrum might be ignoring. It is a powerful way to step outside of echo chambers and challenge your perspective on the issues that matter most. What stands out most to me about ground news is how it simplifies overwhelming media landscape. Instead of feeling lost in conflicting headlines, I can clearly see the bigger picture. And I think that's something we all need. Right now, you can get 40% off their vantage plan, which is what I use for unlimited access to all of their features. Just click my link ground.news/doctordaft or find it in the description. Trust me, once you start using ground news, you'll never want to rely on just a single source for news again. It is so much better to see the full picture. I am providing a good example of motherhood to my child. I hope you like it. Everyone does feel like you're providing a picture. I think my kids think I'm a good role model for them. And another thing, some of our friends said, including their high school teacher, "I want your mom to be my mom." That's so sweet. Thank you. I agree. I have a little boy and he's only one year old, so I don't have a lot of mom experience, but I got my one year under my belt. And I can already see that he's a very sweet, kind-hearted little boy. He shares his little snacks, his little fries, like he shares. And I know that comes from him seeing me share with others or me. Sure, compassion it with others. In a world where there's a lot of toxic masculinity, I think I'm showing him a positive, loving, nurturing role model as a mom. I'm giving that to him. And he's embodying it in his one year old little brain. And he's also showing it to others around him and being just a sweetheart. That's great. I take the time to sit down with my daughter. I talk to her. We do homework every evening. We do pick-up all we do tennis. So from 5am to 2.30am working, and then from 3.30 to about bedtime, it's all about her. And I think seeing the balance of a strong woman working, and then also the balance of, "Oh, but also my mom pays attention to me." So I get to, I had the luxury to work from home. So sometimes when she's home, I'm still working. But she has to be quiet for 8 hours. She has to kind of take care of herself. I don't get to hang out with her during those eight hours. I'm still working. But she knows, hey, as soon as my mom comes off at, you know, 230, now I can be with her till she goes to bed. How old is she? She's eight. Oh, wow. Yeah, so I think I'm showing her a good balance of both. And in a very positive way, she's, you know, hardworking, but then she also sees how I am with my partner and, you know, just the family, you know, how coming together at the end of the day and just, you know, talking and that communication, having dinner together. So I think she's getting a good example of it. Do you believe that it's more important in your mind for her to see you in one role versus the other? Or do you think it's important for her to see you working? And then also, you said working hard, but you work hard in the house, I'm sure, too. Not just working hard at your job. You know what? I would say it is more important that she sees that I'm a good mom. Okay, so that's why I give a lot of to stay at home moms because, you know, I don't think I could do it all day. I only have to do it half the day. And I think that half, I'm like, I really hope whatever example I'm showing that you take with you in choosing who you choose to spend your life with, how you decide to, you know, have dinner together. That's when, you know, most of our communication happens. Just spending time as a family. So I hope she takes that with her when she's, you know, the memory. The memory making. That's great. Thank you. I do want to comment on, like, I do think it's good for you to have that self-reflection of knowing, like, I don't want to do this all the time because then I, you know, I might get, like, burnt out or whatever. And I think that's important for all of us, whether you stay at home or you work, is recognizing when you, when you reach your, your burnout moment and you are actually showing up in a way that you don't want to show up, you know, because, you know, when I was working full-time, I was so tired and I was easily irritated, you know, if I came home and they did something and it was messy. Uh-huh. Right. It's tired. But now that I have a better balance of work and at home, I don't, that stuff does bother me, you know. So I could show up in that way. I think kids see that because especially with my daughters is, she knows she can still talk to me after an eight-hour day, but because the balance is so good, she knows, oh, I can go talk to my mom and she's not going to yell or get mad or stress out, like, they'll be like, okay, what's going on? Like, all right, now it's your turn. What's going on? But yeah. Good point. Yeah. Do you believe that staying at home is the best way to ensure your children have a stable, I'm loving upbringing. Which one is it? Okay. Yeah. Okay, let's hear from you. I think it's, um, it's much more nuanced, not so black and white. I believe, look, if you wanted to have a child, you're doing the self-work, mental health is a big thing, you're putting in the hours, you have a really good, strong partner, all those things contribute to the health of any good experience, positive experience for a young child. If all those, you know, entities don't come together, I don't know that that's the best thing. I think it comes down to self-awareness, know what you want, know what you're doing, even if you don't know what you're doing, you need to admit that, because there are families that have to give up the child to another family member, to a mother, to a auntie, that just doesn't have their stuff together, and being aware of that and being honest about what your limitations are as a mom, even though you're a mom, you shouldn't feel, you shouldn't feel pressured to do something you're not ready to do, and be very, very selfless, whatever that looks like, whether it's, you know, staying at home with your, with your loved, your, your baby, or letting somebody else love that child, because what is more important is the safety and the welfare of the baby. Great. Great. So my mom stayed at home with me and both of my siblings, and I feel like it definitely gave us more stability, and she was able to be a lot more present than if she was working full time. And so I feel like, I just wish that things were easier for people, where more women had that option, because I feel like in today's day and age, it's almost like a lot of my friends who are moms, they don't have a choice. It's like, I have to work, I need to make money. It's not even a thought in their head where they'd have an option to be able to stay home. If they, in my one close friend, has a son with special needs, so it's really hard to watch a mom who has to work full time. She's spread to thin, her kids are just, it's a challenge, and I just don't feel like that's the best case scenario for the kids, because if they had a parent who was able to be fully present and available, to meet their needs and whatever challenges they have, that may help them later in life to be more successful. Thank you. Good point. Really good point. Actually, I'm up, I'm the last of four children, and it was interesting because my mom had it nailed like I did, where it seems like she was always there, but she always had jobs. She was always, she was the town librarian, so I ended up being her assistant. I mean, it was like, there were just, there's just so many ways that we can figure this out, and if we have someone behind us that's strong support, then it really helps. If you don't have someone behind you that's not strong support, you really have to stand on your own two feet and figure it out, because those children are the most important thing in your life. And one, I said to the girls earlier, I said, "Motherhood is sisterhood." I mean, there's so many different factors, but we're looking out for the child, whether you have to give it up or whatever, you really want that human being to be first. Have you ever engaged in mom shaking? Okay, what do you hear from you? Yeah, it's beginning. What is it? I used to see some ladies like, "Oh, you're staying home like that, but what they don't understand is I'm taking care of my kids, teaching them, helping my husband, doing a lot more than nine to five jobs." So, yeah. I'm questioning what that means, because we're all as moms, we're all as humans, judgmental. So, it might not even be like, "Oh, you're just staying home mom." It just might be, she picks up her daughter late at it. You know, there's always one kid that's an aftercare to like, social clock. So, you tend to maybe judge those parents just because we're human and not necessarily mom-shaming, but it's kind of in the same category, but it is really hard because, you know, in my school system, my daughter's school system, there is a little bit of competition, you know, who was showing up, who's baking the most and all that, maybe because I'm competitive, I don't know. But, there is a competition. And for me, I wanted to make sure that my daughter was always one of the first people to get into class. She was on time, you know. Even the petty stuff like baking sure that my daughter has a homemade lunch, I mean, I do that. I'm like, "What is, what is, what is Betty's here?" "Are you guys buying lunch over there?" Like, what does that say? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, "Are you getting fresh?" And so, I pride myself on making sure that she has homemade lunches because I just don't want her to throw out there like, I work. So, you know, having her buy the school lunch just seems like a cop out. And I don't want to, you know what I'm saying? I want to make sure that she gets that kind of homey feeling as best as possible. So, short answer, we're all judging. I don't know. Everyone has different values. Yeah. I think, um, I got pregnant really young. So, I guess because of that, I, I know it's hard. Like, when you hear like a crying baby on an airplane or at a restaurant, I'm like, "Have been there." Like, I have just kind of like no judgment because it's already been done to me. Probably every way possible from, you know, friends, friends, parents, you know, religious people like, you know, and I just kind of never, I'm like, that she's doing her best, you know? Right. We're all just doing our best. This is our first time. So, she's doing it. Yeah. You know, like, this is our first time being moms, you know? And every kid is different. You have to learn new things with the next kid. You know, it's not always going to be the same. But, um, yeah, I just kind of like, I don't know. I'm like, I'm just, women already have it, you know, hard enough. And like, we don't need to be doing it to each other, you know, with how we parent or, you know, how we raise our children. Agreed. Exactly. And some people may say to a working mom, "Oh, you're, you're a bad mom because you don't spend time with your kids or to stay at home mom." Like, so what are you actually doing the whole day? You know? Yeah. There's those, those judgments, those sort of comments that could make you feel like I ignored them. I mean, you do. Would you like to share something? Um, I, yeah, I just would agree with the panel here. I think, um, in a way, we all judge moms, no matter whether they stay home or go to work or whether they send their kids to school with a fancy lunch or, um, one up each other and PTA. events or there's I think there's always going to be that issue. For me it's I was a very young mom as well and I always got the you know teen mom or whatever but and so I have a lot more empathy for for moms across the board but yeah you do you and we're doing our best out here. Yeah thank you. I sometimes feel guilty for not contributing financially to my family. Okay. You don't you don't feel guilty. I don't. Wait, you don't feel guilty. Okay so let me hear from you. You don't feel guilty. Bye. No I don't feel guilty. I think you know my partner is very supportive. He never makes comments my money or you know anything like that so and we have everything that we need. I think working full time we put our goal was when we first got married and we first because my husband's a nurse too. We invested a lot of our money early and a big goal was that so that when we had our kids we I could pull back work and he can pull back on work so um so no I don't feel guilty at all because we worked hard to like. You've made work. You've made a great bet. I mean you're doing congratulations. Thank you. I'm going to hear from you. I guess just being a mom in general it's I just feel guilty all the time. It's not even necessarily around finance but I do no matter how much money I have I just feel like it's hard because there's always another kid who has more and so I try not to get too wrapped up in that because maybe I take my child to the park one day but I see another family going to Disneyland or they're traveling and it's just like the older they get the more they want and so I think that's where my guilt stems from. Thank you. That's human nature though. We always want more than we have. We have. I mean and we're all we're all really very spoiled. I mean we all do fine. So just put yourself on a little higher level. Don't feel that. And sometimes you will hear people make comments about mom's stay at home saying well you know you're not contributing financially or the mom themselves might feel like I wish I could earn money just to be able to buy my sons and new shoes or my daughter ballet classes but you don't have that ability because you're not doing anything on the side but you said you don't feel guilty about it. I don't because I do I manage his finances I'm good at that so I save more money by looking after all those and taking care of my kids I now both are successful so you wouldn't have a happy if it's that you're saving money actually. Yeah exactly. That can work. Yeah just don't go to target. I know. See I wait for my Amazon. I could use a break. Okay. Okay. Again I think it just comes back to having my partner who's very supportive. We've both found a really good balance and he doesn't work that much so I'm not home with the kids by myself all the time and when I do have a really long day with them because he works 12 hour shifts. He's really good at finding a day to be like hey do you want to go out do you want to go do something on your own. Where we found that balance because we didn't always have that balance so we found that balance by you know I just told him I don't mind cleaning the house but please just take the kids to the park so I could do it in the quiet. So that's kind of where it started and then he started realizing that that break made me feel so much better so I used to feel that way when I was home all the time with the kids. I was like man I just need it to be quiet for five seconds so I did used to feel that way but now with you know finding our balance I don't feel that way. I have a funny comment about that. Have you ever taken a break though it may have maybe gone away for two days with your husband or you were allowed to go away for maybe two days by yourself and you get away and you're like I just want to hear him breathe. I want to know they're okay. Mom guilt. Yeah I mean it really it's like oh god. Everything fine. Cause then you're like pulsating. I was like oh I know something's going to happen I just know it but anyway but yeah so but just a couple hours away it's always really good. Yeah I think for us we found that the consistent breaks for me so I didn't eat long breaks I didn't need a whole weekends by myself I just needed because consistent two hours every other day to just be by myself in the house like you go be with them. I'm in. I wish twins so if a girl said to me do you mind if I take Nick out for like a couple hours take him. I need trouble sometimes so you get a break. Yes but then do you sometimes wish you had a break from working. I want a break from it all. I don't know why. I need a break from everything but yeah so when she was younger I traveled a lot. I was always on the road. I was very lucky at that time I did have a partner who was very nurturing. I just as nurturing if not more but he was really really good so I would travel. I have to go to I would Hawaii I would go to East Coast and we're talking about for weeks. It was very hard for me. I would like look at her pictures and I do FaceTime. It was very hard but at the end of the day I knew that she was in good hands. So I had that kind of feeling that you had like having a good partner. I didn't want her to be with anybody else besides my partner or one of the two grandmother's that's it and if you have that structure you're okay as a working mom you get to get your week off get you know get into whatever you got going on and then come back a better version of yourself and that's what you want. You want to show up as the best version. Yes. Yes. Love yourself for your kids and be conscious of your limitations and just say like look I need a break and if it's not a loving partner you got to find a village. We got to find a village and say hey auntie hey mom or whoever I need a break because I'm going to have a mental breakdown and she's gonna suffer and I don't care who it is if you don't have that partner because many of us don't you got to find a village. People who can love on you for a couple hours where you go to a target and do what you got to do but I can't say I have a middle schooler so I definitely need a break. We went from elementary school to middle school overnight and life is moving so fast with all of the activities and it's scaring me and I need a break not because of just too much going on it's just because it's moving so fast like yesterday she was nine now she's 12 and you know she's becoming that pretentious just moving so fast so that's what I need a break from and I asked it's funny I asked the older lady a long time ago when where mothers everything is so busy time goes so fast how do you make it slow down like what do you do you know what she told me she said do less. Do less this do less meaning don't do all the activities don't put your kid in all these after school stuff just don't do anything for the weekend just watch TV chill out don't do anything I guarantee your weekend will finally feel like it's going slow and that's what you want you want the longest time as you can with the kids because they're just moving at a rate that doesn't even make sense they do you know we just need to reclaim our time. We all need our meantime. Yes. I love that you the two of you have such wonderful partners and the two of you are setting a really great example for your children. I did. I don't know I pivoted girl. Sorry but go ahead I understand the formative years we did. Did you know that saying like at least until she was eight we had a really good situation going on so yeah sorry. I want to say that from my perspective when I did stay at home for the first year and then even also moving into later years much later years I did not have a supportive partner. I had a partner who was very old school the the wife was supposed to take stay home and take care of everything the children the dinner the lunches cleaning the house laundry everything and my partner would come in from work and sit down and watch TV and that's how he recharged himself but I wasn't allowed to do that. I felt so much guilt going I need to go to Target to get you know X Y and Z and so I never had a break he would go off and have golf weekends and I mean there's it goes so much deeper but finding the right partner like going into a relationship before you make that commitment is understanding having that understanding of we're going to share these share raising the children and the things that we do around the house my oldest son who is married they have of that relationship. And it's so beautiful to watch. And I'm glad that my son didn't learn from the relationship I had with my partner. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, because sometimes people will think that if you're at home all day with the children, that was your break. You don't need a break from that because that's a break in and of itself. The biggest challenge in the world. But there's some people who go out to work, come home and take care of the children. I still have had no break. Either way, it's like you do need a break from all of it at some point. So thank you for sharing. Children need a mother at home more than a father at home. OK, let me hear from you. I think biologically, especially when the baby is at a younger age, our bodies and our brains morph into a way that benefits our babies. So when I was living with my partner, I would be able to hear the baby more at night than he would. He would never wake up because men love to get this late. Women do too, but I think I was just nationally more inclined to hear my baby screaming at night, wanting to be fed. And then-- so that-- and then also just other natural cues that women have. Biologically, I think it's more of an advantage for women to stay at home versus the man. Thank you. Especially elderly childhood, they need mom. So that's a way brain develops, grasp everything. So it's very important. Obviously, later, every kid needs both parents. But yeah. Thank you. I really think it comes down to biology. I did my very best. I took time at that work for maybe the first three or four months. But biologically, we care the child. We're the only ones who lactate. So I'm like, it doesn't make sense. You can't explain God's creation or whatever you believe in. The universe created you to make this child. And you alone can feed this child from your body. So it is a must at the very, very early onset formative years. As a good older, if you have a nurturing co-parent, which I was lucky enough to have, so we could switch off, but the mother is a must. Thank you. I've always been closer to my father. And I just feel like that's such an important role for any child to have. And I feel like nowadays, just for some reason, it feels like women-- we just have to do it all. And I feel like being a father is just as important. And it's something that every child needs and deserves to have. But a lot of families don't have that. And I just feel like it's just as important as having a mother. I want to speak to that. No, yeah, I complete. I agree with you. I mean, I always want to be around. I think it is more important for a woman, the mom, to be around. But I've had an absent partner. And then I met my new partner. And he is like, you know, dad of the year, very present for my daughter. And her and I have a very almost like friend relationship, whereas when he came into my new partner, when he came into the picture, it was more of, now, there's that parent boundary. Now there's the discipline. Now there's the respect. There's things that she took more from him than I was teaching her. Because as a mom, we just want to love them all the time. Whereas when dads are present, there is more discipline. And there tends to be a little bit more order. So I agree, like dad does need to be in the picture also. But I agree, my position would be mom is more important to be present. Thank you. And the final prompt, ladies, I feel as though I am doing the right thing for my family. But other people don't always see it. OK. Well, excuse me. I was just going to switch it. But my mother was a stay-at-home mom. And she was disappointed when I made the decision to return to work. She felt like children should be raised by their mothers, stay-at-home moms. So that was negative information that I got as I was raising my kids. But apart from my mother, I surrounded myself because I was returned to work. I surrounded myself with working moms. So there was never any negative comments or conversations about it. Do you feel that the situation with your mother having those thoughts towards you impacted you going back to work? Yes. OK. Definitely. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that a gift. Sorry. Yes. It just seems like no matter what, no one else can see out like the big picture in our lives so they can't necessarily see what we've given up to be in the position that we are. And so it seems like people on the outside will never be able to give us the credit that we need or the kudos or the appreciation because they don't necessarily understand what the trade-off was for us in our life, like maybe giving up time with your child, but you're earning money to set them up for a great future. Or staying at home, that's a financial sacrifice, but it may be what the child needs in the long run. So it's just hard because people can't always see the whole picture. And it just seems like there is still now some mom shaming or people will just give parents a hard time. And it's just it's so hard being a mom, like, especially in the beginning, it's so much to learn. So I just wish that people were more supportive of each other. That's a long way. Yes. I'd like to share. So I agree with you 100% that no one will ever be able to see what you see between the relationship between you and your baby. But I said that I disagree just because when I do get that uplifting recognition of someone being like, you're a good mom, like, good job. You've never been around babies before your whole life. And you have this little one. He is as happy as can be. That fuels me. And it also may just be a personal thing. If my love language is like words of affirmation or whatever. But when I do get that uplifting positive vibe from someone, it definitely takes so much weight off my shoulders. So, you know, definitely outside us, a lot of times they don't understand. Sometimes even family members, extended family members, sometimes could be very companion. But as long as we do write to our kids, if kids understand us, that means a lot. Then any other stuff. So, yeah. Okay. Staying grounded. Yeah. Who you are and reminding ourselves of we're doing a good job. Exactly. This is the first time I've had a one-year-old. This is the first time I've had a nine-year-old. Staying grounded in ourselves, even if we hear the criticism is more important than anything. So, I absolutely appreciate the wisdom. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely have experienced it. I work in a very women-dominated field. So, I work with a lot of women and they all have their opinions. You know, I had really rough pregnancies. And a lot of them, "Oh, I can work and be pregnant." And I'm like, "Well, good for you. I can't." Or, you know, like, "Well, I balance work in having my kids. Well, good for you. I can't." And so, I think it, again, comes back to that self-reflection because, you know, they don't know your life. My youngest daughter, she is autistic. And a lot of people don't know that. And, you know, so I was taking her to therapy a lot. And I can't manage that. I manage. I don't know why this is -- this part is making me emotional. But, yeah, people don't know what struggles your face is. Yeah. You're being authentic and brave because people don't know your story and some people don't care and they just end up in judgment. So good for you. Yeah. So, you just have to know, you know, your mom instinct what you think is best in that moment. Absolutely. You'll be able to know the amount of work and hardship, but heartache that goes into caring for a child with special needs and just the different personalities of your children and being a wife and all of those things. Yeah. So, it's really important that you're able to encourage yourself and to know that you're happy with what you're doing at this very moment and your children are getting what they need and that you'll do whatever it takes for you to make it what they need. Yeah. Not a good mom. You can be good at saying it. Unless they are in your shoes, they would have no. Just to. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. They say it to you. Just let us know. Yeah. We got you best. We have you back. Yeah. Thank you so much, ladies. I definitely can relate. When I decided I was going to stay at home, people would say, but you're a doctor. Like, that's not my identity. I know. And it's like, they didn't understand why would I give up a career that was prestigious to take care of a child. Why would I want to do that? And so, you know, it's personal, but it's your decision, it's your family. and I'm proud of all of you for being here and sharing your stories. Thank you for your time. Thank you so much for being with us today and listening to this conversation. And thank you ladies for being here and sharing your stories. I hope that this was impactful and it helps you to understand the lives of different women. Until next time, bye bye.