Women in creative leadership part 1: Larissa Schneider, Noname Security

Hello and welcome to the ChangeMaker's podcast. I'm Dave Kohler, Business Director at the Creative Agency shape by and in this series I chat to leading marketers at what we call ChangeMaker Browns, businesses on a mission to change the world for the better through technology. What I want to find out is the role that creativity plays in helping them to communicate the benefits of their technology. Hopefully their insights, experience and stories can help you supercharge your own creativity. Hey folks, welcome to a very special episode of the ChangeMaker's podcast this week. Actually it's three special episodes because this is the first in our Women in Creative Leadership specials. I'm really glad that we're getting to do this because it's a subject that is really really close to my heart. It's something that I've wanted to talk about on this podcast for a long time and to do it in this way, talking to three amazing female leaders is really exciting stuff. We're doing it because essentially I've been working at shape by for nearly three years now. For most of that time we've been working heavily within, I guess what you would call B2B tech. I know that's very broad. There are a lot of sub-sectors and industries within that but ultimately the kind of tech industry that sells to other businesses. And tech as a whole especially at founder, leadership level and in certain disciplines like engineering has historically leaned very heavily towards being male dominated. But during my time here I've come across and had the pleasure of talking to and working with a lot of amazingly talented female marketers and creatives. So I guess I wanted to gauge the temperature of gender equality and diversity within the creative and marketing sides of B2B tech. Where are we at the moment? Has it improved in recent years? How long have we got to go or how far have we got to go before we can truly say that it is a gender equal and truly diverse and part of this industry? And I really wanted to get that from female leaders within this space and I'm so grateful to the three who agreed to join me and talk about this on the change makers because it's so so important. It really really is, you know, diversity and equality are absolute non-negotiables for me and should be for everyone within the world of business and life in general. And I'm so glad that my first guest has agreed to join me. So Larissa Schneider is the VP of a mere marketing at the API security firm NoNane. We're lucky enough to have worked with Larissa both in her previous role and soon to be in her current role as well which we're really excited about. So I know first hand how amazing she is and it's a fantastic conversation, you know, I really wanted to get a sense of her experience of her career, you know, climbing the ranks as a female marketing leader and her views on equality and diversity within this wonderful sector that we were working. So here we are. This is episode one of our Women in Creative Leadership Specials with Larissa Schneider of NoName Security. Enjoy! Hey Larissa, thank you for joining me in the change makers. How are you today? Hey Dave, thanks for having me doing really well excited to be here. Great stuff. Where are you at the moment? Are you based in Berlin? Is that right? Exactly. I'm in Berlin, pretty much city centre, loving it. Oh nice. Well listen, there's so much I want to kind of dive in with you today. This is one of our three Women in Leadership Specials in particular focusing on creator and marketing leadership. And there's a couple of reasons why we wanted to talk about this. One actually which came out this week which is apparently Women's CMOs across the board now out number, male CMOs which is a really interesting dynamic on gender equality and and there's a lot about that that I want to dive in with you today. But first before we started I wonder if you could just give our listeners a bit of an idea of your career so far really and how you came to be in your role at NoName. Absolutely. And I hadn't heard of that yet so that's good news as it sounds like things are progressing in the right direction. So like in terms of taking it really back from me I often say that the building blocks for for my career where it is now started about two weeks after my 16th birthday. So that's when I am decided to move to Australia on my own out of like small town countryside Germany and as we're discovered you know the world learning to be independent sound out. They really live being around people from all diverse backgrounds and languages and ultimately that kicked off about 10, 12 years of my life after that spending mostly abroad. I went to school and got university degrees at Austin the UK in France in the US spent some time working in Belgium too. So pretty pretty international as I said native German now we speak French at home and at work I mostly speak English they really like the languages and the change of all that brings with it. And so on that journey initially I started working with really like the largest multinational corporations in the world across a wide range of industries like industry leaders but I mean I'll tell you a few I worked for furniture companies I even worked for garbage bin company. They're a market leader but very different field to what I'm in now that's work with airplanes and interior architecture always marketing related communications customer relations so really in that field is what I knew I wanted but for me initially coming out of school it was like the bigger the better and found myself in like a beautiful but pretty sleepy town in southern France and wanted to kind of do the most opposite polar opposite of what I could find from that and that was when I decided to move to San Francisco for a while I wanted that like fast pace new tech environment spend some time that great memories I knew I wasn't going to stay in the long run realistically so I joined the tech startup in Silicon Valley they're called Pernick's data they were just in the process really expanding into the Emile region I moved back to Germany with them and that's how I ended up in Berlin as in a marketing role there we were acquired by new tenix about a year after I joined them and I decided to go with that acquisition started an Emile role again moved into a global team and eventually took a leadership role there and during my time we went through IPO which was super exciting so I guess a good decision to go with the acquisition went through tremendous growth initially the startup I was part of we were like a hundred-ish people maybe 150 then we joined new tenix with a thousand people and ultimately I think when I left it was like seven thousand so it was it was a wild time let's say that and yes after a few years it got a little bit too busy too well not busy big different type of busy with different areas of of a corporation that I didn't enjoy quite as much anymore so I joined what I like sometimes like to call like more of the startup factory within new tenix so the number of acquisition that were made over time some of them were run as independent startups within the company so I was super exciting I joined that part and I was working with founders on their approach to go to market marketing programs and just navigating being part of the bigger company that they really just bought into that was quite a while of my career probably the longest tenure in a company and that in January I don't know name security and I think like like many others in the pandemic was a bit of a path of reorientation finding a new meaning and making changes one of the new challenge and I think we all know how hot cyber security is right now everyone's talking about it's on main page news every day so I was like let's dive into that a little bit I got to talk to quite a few people at no name and it was super exciting like extremely smart people we headed off straight away and honestly I just decided to go for it dive in and yeah that's how I landed here nice and can you give us a bit more of a flavor into exactly what no name does as a really hot cyber security startup that's making huge waves in the cyber security industry as far as I understand it yeah absolutely so no name is in the broader space of API security with our platform that we launched where the only target that takes I want to say like a complete 360 degree approach to API security and without going too much into the technical details that includes things like posture management, runtime security and API security testing but the company was only found in 2020 so it's it's pretty new by a team of really brilliant cyber security pioneers in Tel Aviv Israel and today we've raised 220 million dollars in three rounds of funding from some of the leading VC firms across North America we achieved unicorn status only one year after coming out of stealth which is pretty incredible and yeah it was a hard lift on the team before I joined so I was I was lucky to step into that unicorn first every API security unicorn startup a few weeks after that came out yeah we had quoted in Silicon Valley have offices in Tel Aviv when most of our R&D is happening and then in Amsterdam also recently launched the Asia Pacific region, so lots of growth globally, which really resulted to the fact that already now we're working with over 20% of the Fortune 500, so the largest corporations that all of us know all around the world. Wow, that's an incredible journey so far. And what in terms of your role within the business, your AMI marketing director, is that right? I mean, for a start you seem to be doing a lot of travelling since you joined. And what's your kind of, what's your remit within the business? Yes, so I started to run the AMI marketing region and then recently got the opportunity to run the global marketing team, so I get to work with a group of really amazing marketers covering all aspects of demand generation, including regional marketing events, content, partnership, communications, so really all the areas that drive our top of funnel demand for the company. Cool, and so that's a big jump from Nutanix, which is a business that obviously we both know well, from either working within it or as a supplier to a very fast growing, but ultimately very nimble and somewhat leaner starter. What's that jump been like for you? Yeah, I mean, even the Nutanix time, nothing ever stood still to be honest, because initially we were part of this, like, you know, you're preparing for IPO, there's clear growth plans, you have some predictability in your pipeline and your growth and your regions, but then even there when I jumped into the startup world internally, it was a lot of changes back and forth. Now, at no name, this is a whole different beast, if you will, because we're really in the early stages of launching our international regions, which, as I've mentioned, is something that's super interesting and important to me, where I'm expanding the team across verticals, across the geographic locations, we are bringing on in the marketing department, bringing on new functions every other week recently. So it's been super exciting. No day is like the one before or the next one. And I think it takes a certain set of people and skills to navigate and be happy in this environment for sure. And speaking of your skills, over the years, so obviously, you know, we've talked about your extensive career, both in terms of different roles and also different regions as well, what inspired you to get into marketing first of all, and then what inspired you to get into the tech world in terms of bringing your skills to that realm? Yeah, marketing in general, I always think like it's a mix of me being a kid and loving to play office. Like really? When everyone else was playing with those, I left you like, you know, be organizing and filling out Excel files for fun. And I think that is that part to marketing where you really need to make sure you're planning your budgeting, your forecasting, that part. But then you also have that creative aspect to it and the people aspect which which I enjoy, you know, like early jobs I had while I was in school was often like, you know, customer setting retail, whatever. So I think you do have that in marketing you as I said, you travel, you attend conferences, you talk to prospects, you talk to business partners. So it's the diversity of that and nowadays within marketing you have so many different functions that you can specialize in and and dive deeper or keep that more broad overarching view across multiple disciplines. And then tech in general, I think that is the the fast pace. Like I think dynamic is what I often use as a word coming out working before in France at the Airbus headquarters where you have like, I don't know how many tens of thousands of people working there and marketing campaigns that I was involved when running like 30 years because that's only every so often that you launch a completely new airplane. So here in high tech basically Silicon Valley coming, expanding across the world, it never stands still is new products that pop up every day. It's super challenging to keep up and I think that's what it makes exciting for me. Yeah, you're never the smartest person in the room, right? So there's always something to learn from someone else, especially when you don't have that technical background in in terms of your studies. It's interesting isn't it? Some markets is quite like that slow pace of life. You know, you were talking about Airbus and only changing things ever so often and something comes around every every few years. It's a very kind of glacial pace but some markets is like that and then like yourself some markets is actually that's really not stimulating enough. You know, the fast pace is really attractive. So I hear that a lot, especially within the tech world. I'd love to get on to the subject of gender equality because it's something that we we talk about so often in the world of marketing. I just wondered, I mean, we'll come on to kind of the wider world of tech in general and tech businesses and and how the steps they're taking to balance things out as far as that's concerned. But just in terms of marketing, where do you feel the tech industry is in terms of equality and opportunities for female marketers? Do you feel like it's a level playing field in your experience? Well, actually, I think that's a pretty loaded question. I mean, overall, I would say we all agree that there's enough women but also minorities, people with diverse backgrounds on that. And so I think that's a lot of the difference between the two backgrounds on company boards and like in the highest leadership positions, whether that is in tech or in business in general. But even if we look at public administration and governments, right, it's someone similar across the different fields, I believe. But I've seen a lot of shift in the last few years. And I think that's a lot of different, like debate or news on social media and in general, the diversity topics come up a lot more in my opinion, which I guess is a first good step in the right direction highlighting the issues. But obviously that does not mean that actions are being taken immediately by businesses. I still find myself more often than not as the only woman in a room realistically and definitely have been asked to take the notes for the team and sure that there's follow up, you know, or organize the internal meetings for totally different departments that really I should just be in a 10 D off and not running it, right. And that happens all the time. I think over the years, personally, I've gained more confidence in pushing back, which I guess when you're starting in a new role when you're somewhat more of the odd one out, you probably don't have that confidence just yet. Usually there's no bad attendance on the other side. It's just a matter of year long habits and then probably like just doing the same thing over and over again. So I try to take things with a bit of humor, let's stuff cool down a little bit and then find a solution in direct interactions. And that's really helped me a lot and has been a good approach, I think. But if you're asking in general as a woman, not just in marketing, but I think you still have to show a lot of initiative in making your own opportunities. And he is nobody is really sitting around waiting to give you one and even more so in as a woman in the STEM tech areas, I believe you need to prove at least twice as hard that you have an understanding of the tech that you're qualified that you're flexible as many men are in similar positions. You mentioned that things have changed in the last few years. Could you elaborate on that a little bit in terms of is this because there are more specific initiatives around not just in tech and not even just in marketing but globally, diversity initiatives to try and encourage things. Or is it more specific to your word and to the word of tech that you've seen it on a day-to-day basis? I think the first kicking stone for me that I observed is a slight transition during the COVID time to be honest as we all got a lot more flexible, people were working from anywhere in the world remotely. I think that opens eyes of a lot of company leaders around the world and saying that there is a different type of doing and not having to stick to the status quo forever. But that being said, I'm a lot on social media on LinkedIn specifically and I don't think I remember as many posts from influencers, business leaders, really highlighting the issues when there's big international gatherings and you see pictures of just men around a table. Those are some things. I've got that frustration. You know, that day go viral these days and I don't really have any reclection of that being similar some five, ten years ago to be honest. I also see often, not that you mentioned, the word "manals" when conferences now are coming back right or even virtual conferences over the last few years, and actually putting back when they are being on panels where there is no other woman and there really is no reason why there couldn't be. So it's a lot more the individuals holding accountable the institutions or organizers on these topics. Yeah, I completely agree. And not just females either, but diversity, skin colour backgrounds. You know, it doesn't do the many favours ultimately, you know, events and panels, panels, discussions like that because the world just isn't like that. You know, it's not representative. So the discussion that comes out isn't going to be valuable to the audience who may well be, you know, hopefully much more. diverse than that. But like you said, I'm really glad that people are becoming more vocal about it and it's becoming an issue that people automatically flag up or tend to flag up as soon as it happens. I just wanted to kind of touch on the leadership side of things. So, your career is progressing into a leadership role. Have you, and obviously I mentioned before, so this was a CMO 10 year study came out this week. Female CMOs, they were number 23% in 2016. Now, in ad ages, list of top 100 advertisers, women made up 51% of CMOs in 2021. That's a real step forward, right? And is that something in terms of the way that you've climbed the ranks? Have you seen, I guess it's difficult to say if you've seen Barra as being removed or broken down, but how's that transition been to you for leadership roles? And how do you felt that it's been maybe a smoother ride than it might have been in previous years? Kind of you say that I have noticed that trend significantly and it might be that there's a difference between industries, probably also geographic locations and even within the team, like not just looking at the leadership role, but within the teams. There is definitely programs that lots of companies are running, but in my personal experience, I can't say that I've seen that trend just yet. I think all my time in this tech world, I've mostly ever worked for male CMOs, to be honest, but I do see that in lots of our partner companies that there is like an additional focus is put on recruiting women and really start with a hiring process where women are more acceptable to it and where they are looking for new positions. And what about in the wider world of the other business units within businesses that you're also thinking engineering, sales, things like that? Do any of those have a real challenge in terms of gender equality and balancing things out as far as that's concerned? Again, I do also really want to say that geographically it might be significantly different. So if we look at what we see in the media, for example, countries like Iceland or the Nordics where the countries itself have really taken a real approach to improving the equality across not just gender specific, but all types of minorities. I think you start to see this in business and usually sales organizations in tech are some of the biggest departments they are and I've seen some more entry-level programs where you bring in a diverse group of people and then nurture them to becoming leaders or really going into a specific professional function where they go a lot deeper in specific areas. And that has shown a lot of success in previous roles where all of a sudden you don't just have a pool of candidates that were sourced through some of your male leaders' professional network, but you're actually nurturing those future leaders within coming straight out of university and really having that diversity there has been great to see. When you're in the start of the world, it often comes with who are your first few hires and how are they making sure that they are sourcing the best talent for a growing business that maybe doesn't even have any brand recognition yet. As I said before, are you just drawing your candidates from someone's professional network? Or are you really going that extra mile and ensuring that open job wrecks are being promoted and shared with faster audiences and female, like which platforms do women look for jobs? Which platforms are more accessible to minorities as well. Is your wording in your ranks really presenting the benefits you're offering? Are they relevant and appealing to women in minorities in general? Or is there a clear underlying bias that prevents many women even giving that position a shot? I think that's where it starts. Yeah, absolutely. Are you involved in the hiring process at no name in terms of building your team out? Obviously try and make sure that these things are front and center for yourself. Yeah, absolutely. We are hiring across the boards, across all regions, across many different functions, and especially on the marketing side. I think we have a really great team together that is pretty diverse and we are all actually remote first. So we are really taking this approach of hiring the best talent wherever they are in the world. That's something that's super important to me because not just on the under inequality side, but more than not, I feel like a bias for my geographical location. So someone that is based in Europe should just be working on the Emia region, right? That's often how you start a new company again. So mostly you're not even considered for a local role despite maybe having a lot more international background and profile than other candidates. So yeah, I do make sure that we really talk to people wherever they are in the world and get the best talent. And for me, it's the more diverse, the better it team gets. It's got to be about that in the Emia region, though, hasn't it? Because you think about it as a region, people throw the term Emia around so much, but it's such a diverse region. If you compare it to the America's market where you can travel 500, 600 miles in America and you're still in the same country and sometimes even still in the same state. Whereas in Amir, you can be in a completely different region and completely different cultural norms, surely diversity and Amir, you're a mere team. You should really be the most diverse out there, I guess. Yeah, actually, to be honest, I'm a true formalist. I'd say this on Europe, but the term Emia or APEG drives me nuts sometimes because it's like, when someone says like, you're based in Emia, like what does that mean? How many countries are there in that region? There's no one time zone, there's no one currently. And probably there's people that don't even know what the neighboring country is like. You know, it's extremely diverse. And so is the APEG region. Or you know, to a certain extent, even the Americas, because for most new tech companies, the focus really is on North America, being US and Canada, but even in South America, Latin America, you have a lot different profiles, different people. And I think we can all appreciate that a little bit more. Yeah, definitely, for sure. And just in terms of your career, have you had any, particularly inspiring female mentors, have helped you adapt to any challenges that you may face being a woman climbing the ranks in this world? I've definitely had members that have been extremely influential for me. I don't think that mentors for women necessarily have to be women. And to be honest, most of the mentors over time that I had, they've actually, they were and are men. And in my opinion, I think position industry, gender background, none of that really matters. I think most people over time have more than one mentor for sure. So within that group of mentors, there are diverse, it gets the better. The most important thing for me is that they really are true allies. And then, you know, that you find that individual that takes the time that has a specific interest in making you become the best professional that you can be and have that careiness in them. I think that that's more important than any gender. I've had great mentors overall that have really, you know, I have built an authentic relationship with over time. And that's, we build a connection and trust. Because sometimes you have to be so vulnerable with them and really tough conversations. Because, you know, that relationship between the mentor and the mentee is not something that's just always fun and happy and positive. Sometimes it's really important that they do give you this nudge. And they won't always have the right answers that you went to here and nor should they. Because then it does not challenge you in a way to move you to the next step. And so, yeah, often it's a matter of having that mentor that listens, that provides support. And over time, I think you see as you progress, as you maybe try different roles, different, you know, different companies. Some mentors come, some go at this day a very long time, or even, you know, you switch that relationship around in certain aspects that I've seen where a person was initially the mentor and then really wanted to have more insights from someone who's maybe earlier in their career and their life and they switched that around and the mentors become the mentee afterwards. Yeah, and it really takes a guess a bit of courage and certainly kind of self-reflection to do that as a mentor, doesn't it? Because, you know, there are certain folks out there, see that's starting with a statistical side of mentoring, you know, in terms of their, it's give-given and, you know, the mentee just kind of takes. Whereas actually, I think there's some really inspiring mentors out there that actually see it as a mutual relationship where they can both get value from it, for sure. In terms of mentor, is that something that you're doing more of now? Has you become more senior in your career? Yeah, absolutely. I have been a mentor for a few people, actually, only women or young female professionals in the business context, but also really in a couple of cases, totally different, much earlier, and still trying to find their way in education. So something that's super interesting to me, you learn a lot, really. Even, I think the fact that it's so out of what you're doing really benefits to the whole situation, and that's a completely different insight into different worlds, different professions. And yeah, I think those exchanges, you learn a lot from everyone and benefits from them. Yeah, absolutely. So the people that you're in those relationships, so that they within your business or within your world, are they completely different? Mostly completely different. So I'm working with a couple of people who are US-based, but in the tech world. And then a few that are in Berlin itself, and they came to the city from different countries due to migration and trying to settle within German bureaucracy. That sometimes can be a little bit challenging, is there so many problems for a staff? I'm really finding the way in how businesses stand here. So it has a completely different field, but lots of learnings on both sides. Yeah, that must be fascinating. Great stuff. Well, that's really, really cool to hear that you're doing that, and the best of luck with it. One more question, well, two more questions actually. I had a question about initiatives like International Women's Day. I have to be, I feel like I have to be somewhat careful as a man saying this, because I know that, you know, I'm fully aware of the privilege that we as males have, and the fact that we don't have to, we don't need initiatives like that to do what we need to do. But do you feel like International Women's Day in particular is quite helpful in terms of driving forward gender equality and pushing that forward? I'm not a big fan to be honest, and I know this might be controversial, but I'm really all about authenticity, and I don't think we should need a day. Can I still be helpful for some? Yes, but nobody really has any benefits from a specific company, you know, posting a "thank you" to all our female employees, International Women's Day banner on LinkedIn once a year. Like, I'm more pleased to look internally, develop your policies, and hold your leaders accountable to them, then just marketing something for the purpose of that being an additional day. And honestly, the same comes for things like Pride Month or either of those annual days as well. For me, it's a tricky one, and the accountability within having a company really think about what does good look like for them in terms of diversity and the leadership really depends on that standing behind it, that's where it all starts for me. Yeah, I mean, again, I feel like I have to be somewhat careful in how I approach it, but I tend to agree with you in that sense, because ultimately, it's action, isn't it? It's not words, it's not labeling things, it's not, you know, here's what we're doing for one day, it's actually everything that goes on on a consistent basis that comes together over time to lift everybody up, and in particular, those marginalised minorities that need support on a day-to-day ongoing basis from their leaders and from their peers. And ultimately, and it also gives rise to quite superficial initiatives. I've seen a few things out there on the Timor recently about, you know, there's a Walmart bringing out a Juneteenth ice cream and things like that, and you know, the backlash that comes from that, which is really, you know, it's not a money-making exercise, you know, this is a really, really serious social issue that needs addressing every single day. So I tend to agree with you on that from. Look, there is one though that I think is pretty interesting, and that's the equal payday. And if you've seen it, like, it's come across on my LinkedIn a lot more in the last few years, but you're not company-striving it, but someone, some media outlet or influencers that are really promoting the day, and it depends on the country, sometimes it's in March, sometimes it's in April, sometimes in May, until the moment that a woman on average has worked for free in terms of their pay gap in comparison with male. And I think that has a very specific statistic that a lot of people are not aware of until it gets to that day, and it's kind of the eye-opener. So I think that's an usually an interesting one. Yeah, and there's an initiative where women put their out-of-office replies on that day and say, "I'm out of office for the rest of the year because I'm not getting paid for effectively," which I think is a really clever, creative way of kind of highlighting that as well. But I guess that's really important. There's actually. There's a brilliant Bristol tech start up called Gap Square, who are really making waves because they've got software, they've got technology that basically makes it really easy for companies to identify what their gender pay gap is and what steps they need to take to. And actually, they're launching in the US quite soon, so I'm really, really happy to see that. So yeah, more power to those people, absolutely, in those initiatives for sure. Let me say thanks so much for spending time with me on the change-makers. It's been a really valuable discussion. As I said, this is a three-part series, and by the end of it, I really want to be more educated and understand what I can do and what we can do as a business, what I can do as a male within this industry to be more of an ally across the board. I just wanted to end with a. It's slightly different in this context because usually we're talking about kind of creativity and marketing initiatives and things like that on the podcast. But from your career, is there a particular project or campaign that you're more proud of working on or delivering than anything else? I think it's usually those crazy launches we're doing in the shortest turnaround times when the whole team comes together, brings creative ideas around the table, and many teams can spend quarters building future campaigns and filling endless spreadsheets and all of that stuff. But when you only have a week or so to end the pandemic, providing a campaign for essential services to ensure that they have business continuity for educating for retail stores, etc. or when more current startup is launching a new product and needs marketing to run the launch campaign 10 days later. That's really when for me, the adrenaline kicks in and the pressure and stresses is in my opinion where some of the craziest and most innovative ideas happen. Eventually you click that go live button, things work, and the outside world is amazed by the product you've produced. I think that's the best feeling. Nice, very cool. Yeah, there's nothing like a bit of pressure to ramp up things, but when it goes well, everybody's happy, everyone's delighted, high five, virtual and physical, if you're willing. You probably don't want that pressure all the time, but occasionally it is a fun alternative to the day-to-day operations. Absolutely, very cool. Well listen, thank you so much again, really appreciate this chat. Have a great rest of your day in Berlin and I'm sure I'll speak to you soon. Thanks a lot.