WNBA Take Purge

[MUSIC] Welcome to the Ringer WNBA Show. I'm Siri Tsohei, and it's just going to be me today. We had some scheduling mishaps slash strange stomach issues. Have not been eating lettuce, so at least the worst of the possible options is off the table. But I'm going to go solo today and I'm going to get into all of it because the WNBA is perpetually everything. All of the time, it's going to be a bit of a take purge, let's get into it. So look, I think I've said this before, but the WNBA is one of the most fascinating institutions that we have right now is a week that is in a constant state of growth and crisis at the same time. It's like an airplane without a pilot that's flying upside down and it's hitting peaks that we have never seen before. But nobody can enjoy it because the complimentary orange juice is spilling all over their electronics. And the pilot keeps insisting we enjoy the view and be grateful for it. Maybe a little bit of a convoluted metaphor, but I've been thinking about it a lot over the course of the last week because I think that the experience of WNBA fandom has extreme highs and extreme lows. Like the best of the best is so damn invigorating and fun and then you just have like nauseating culture war turbulence. And this particular week with Ennis Cantor declaring for the WNBA draft, Royce White, then piggybacking off of that decision, like you can't even come up with your own grift on top of the Dijonet Carrington, Sophie Kent, Cunningham, Collision and the Flagrant Fowl and like the White Privilege Tweet and all of that stuff. I just feel like I'm going through a culture war over stimulation at the same time as experiencing like total basketball, Nirvana. Because we also had some incredible games this weekend, two of which I felt like were like playoff environments. You know, like I think three even, if you want to take it back to Las Vegas playing the fever, although we probably won't talk about that game because we talked about it in the last pod, but that game was incredible. The links playing the aces was incredible. The links playing the wings. Those two teams have played each other three times, they know all of each other's actions. They both really wanted to win that game. We got some incredible basketball. We got Kayla McBride, setting up, breaking the all-time record in the all-time single season record and the three pointers made with 10, career high 43 points. Olivia Miles doing Olivia Miles things. The Fisa Collier just like, honestly, I feel like though, like now that she's here, it's like the whole season. We were just all fighting amongst each other, all the other teams, like the Seven Kingdoms, all the Wild and Night King, was just like booming, like a specter over it all. Now that she's here, she's as agile and as strong and as precise and as vicious as we remember her. And I think Minnesota is basically, look, I think Minnesota is a cut above everybody else in what is a very interesting playoff race, but that's what the WNBA is right now. It is awesome basketball, it's logo threes, and then it's like the racial shrapnel of a mid-air, it's logo threes, and then it's like the racial sh-- oh my gosh. It's logo threes, and then it's like the racial shrapnel of a mid-air, Sophie Cunningham, Dejan A. Carrington clash. It's Gabby Williams, affirming trans participation in sports, and then Ennis Cantor, coming in, Ennis Cantor Freedom, I'm sorry. I don't want to dead name him, Ennis Cantor Freedom, her, her, she, they. Cantor hasn't actually told us what pronouns he's going to be going by. Look, I don't want to give-- I'm going to be calling Ennis Cantor Freedom and his Cantor Freedom for the duration of this podcast. I think I'll actually just call Freedom Freedom because that's the name that they chose. I think it was five years ago, which begs the question, will Freedom be undergoing a second name change in the next little while here? Are we going to get two name changes in five years from Ennis Cantor Freedom? How much is Ennis Cantor Freedom willing to commit to the-- how much am I willing to commit to the Ennis Cantor Freedom bit? Look, obviously, this is somebody who understands the fluidity of identity and reinvention. So perhaps they should be a trans ally. I digress, though. Let's start there. Let's start there. I wrote about Cantor and Royce declaring for the WNBA drafts for the site. Just another in a long line of people using the WNBA to get off a grift here. And I think, ultimately, what they were trying to do is put the WNBA in an impossible position. This is kind of like-- this is kind of what the right-wing playbook has been on all liberal institutions for the last decade. It's basically like trying to create gotchas situations that force them to see potential contradictions in their value systems. This one being inclusivity, which is a WNBA value. What I'll say to that is, like any value, inclusivity at its maximum in practice is going to have some flaws. That goes for literally anything that you try to apply. That goes for free speech and free assembly. Hearing a lot from Sophie Cunningham and Dijon A. Carrington, I respect their right to have an opinion. I would love to hear less of it. But that's, hey, that's the world we live in. So there is this great article about Caitlin Burns on the Burns Notice, which is her website, where she suggested that the best way for the WNBA to respond to this is actually like by taking the most progressive possible route. Right now, the WNBA does not have-- he doesn't have a guideline on transgender participation in its sport. And I think that's sort of the gotcha that Dennis Cantor and Royce White were trying to point at. Look, I've held Kathy's speech to the fire for a lot of different things. I don't think that we need to really hold the WNBA responsible for not having a policy on what is a manufactured issue. No transgender woman has ever tried to participate in the WNBA before for a league that has enough practical things that it has to figure out. I'm not going to be mad at them for not having this policy sorted out. They have put out a private memo saying that they are going to basically be creating a task force, another task force to make some guidelines around this. And look, we are in a moment right now where a lot of sporting bodies have capitulated to political pressure and imposed the most non-inclusive possible transgender. And while there has to be some sort of line, I think the WNBA has an opportunity to take a science-based stance on all of this and figure out what that line is. Actually, go back to what these sporting bodies were doing a couple years ago as far as having certain requirements for certain years of hormone therapy. Having different requirements for athletes that went through puberty and athletes that did not, athletes that transition before they would have went through male puberty. There are so many nuances to all of this and what the current status quo is whether it's the IOC or the WTA or the NCAA is that there is a blanket ban on transgender women participating in sports alongside cis women. I do not think that any policy has to be that exclusionary. I think the WNBA actually has an opportunity here to be like, okay, like you guys want us to come up with a policy fine. You're not going to bully us into abandoning trans people. You're not going to bully us into an unscientific and unimaginative approach. We're not going to take the most cynical possible route here just because you guys think it's common sense or conventional wisdom. There's actually a lot of nuance here and a lot of that nuance has been pledged out of the conversation in the last five years and we're going to bring that nuance back to the conversation. I would love to see the WNBA go that route. Frankly, old looks-- to see the WNBA make a public response at all. They have not. This private memo is kind of all we've heard from them. And for the last 20 days since the ESPN profile came out with Sophie Cunningham making original comments, it's kind of been on players and coaches to take the vast majority of questions on this and the issue is not going away. You have people like Cantor Freedom basically. Like, you know, now that the conversation was starting to die down, kind of like reenters the conversation just to essentially reignite it. I think that's all pretty transparent. I think most people who listen to this podcast think it's a pretty transparent. So I don't know that we need to spend a lot of time on this. I guess all say is, you know, I think it's also constituent on the WNBA to care about the trans fans who are attending these games and kind of worried about their safety and how they fit into the league now that it is gaining a mainstream profile. I don't think that the best version of the WNBA exists without it being a safe space for trans fans or any fans for that matter. But I think in particular, I think the most expansive and the coolest things about the WNBA are pretty part and parcel with the things that I think a lot of trans people have to go through in order to kind of go through that evolution. Like, a lot of it is really about understanding that the boundaries that are set for them are negotiable. And that the conventional wisdom is not always right. I think that there's a lot of things and a lot of aspects to the rise of women's sports where those two values align. So yeah, that's what I'll say on that. We had some great basketball too. This was a great basketball weekend. It was really fun. It was really, really fun. The playoff race is, well, it's not really a race. It's basically a battle for seating. The playoffs are basically set and we kind of saw a hierarchy develop itself over the course of the last week. Like, I think Minnesota is at the top of this hierarchy. Then Vegas is second. The Valkyries and the Fever probably somewhere right after them. The Valkyries are like the biggest X factor, I think in the playoffs. Because while the rest of the league and the Mystics fit into this as well, the Mystics who were by the way crushing at seven game win streak just brought in Benagelini Hamilton. But the Valkyries and the Mystics are zagging. They are going all in on defense at a time when the rest of the WNBA is setting historic records on the offensive end. And I'm so curious how that clash of styles will play out in the postseason. Will the game get more physical? Will it actually favor a team like, let's say the Mystics, the Mystics who just brought in Benagelini Hamilton have really found this identity. They double down on defensive end. They are a top three defensive team throughout the course of the entire season. They have this seemingly contradictory mix of toughness and joy that defines their identity. And that's why I love the Benagelini Hamilton addition because she is a player who embodies both of those things. Like, she will box you out with a smile on her face. She will slap the ball out of your hands with a smile on her face. She is just one of those killers. And it's what made her a fan favorite with a liberty. The second she got to Washington, you could already feel her presence. Kiki Iriafin said, she just got here today and you can already hear her. She was hyping them up in their pregame huddle in their game against Phoenix yesterday. She hasn't played yet. She will play. I think she's available to play tomorrow. The Mystics have a back-to-back against the aces. Benagelini Hamilton was particularly awesome against the aces in the Liberty's Commissioners Cup when against them. But I think it's a really easy and seamless addition for a team that needs another, not as a need, but you know, like this is the youngest team in the league. They're going to go into the playoffs. It would be nice for them to have a veteran. It would be nice to have a veteran that fits their identity and is also won a championship and is pretty much beloved by every teammate she's ever had. And I like it for her, too, because coming off of all the injuries, I think it's like a really low pressure situation to go to a team that was already thriving. Seven wins on a row. That's a franchise record. She adds veteran leadership. She adds playmaking. She adds defensive versatility in the seasons prior to this one last three seasons. She was a 38% shooter from three. And you know that Washington needs some shooting. But if she can't exactly do all those things, she will still be able to do things off the court that provide value. And she's not being asked to do too much. Like it kind of felt like in New York, if she wasn't playing well with all the injuries that they had, it was like their defense fell apart without her. It was a lot of pressure. So I really, really like this audition, audition for the Mystics. And I'm just so curious what they end up looking like in the playoffs. And whether they can actually get home court, they like snuck up to the fifth seed right now. They're going to have his interesting back-to-back against the Aces. I'm really curious about the front court battle there, because Shakira Austin has just been incredible. In the last seven games, shout out to Cody McMahon, who was averaging double digits in this stretch. She's just been such a dog. The way that she is hunting mismatches their game against the Dallas Wings' fourth quarter. She's just dog walking pagebackers down to the post. She's just such a mismatch nightmare. She gets a late foul on Azy as well. They're kind of playing her at point guard as well, which takes some of the pressure off of Georgia Aymor. It allows them to play these huge lineups that can switch and trap and still be able to get back. They have so much size. They're going to destroy you on the boards as well. And they're just like this joy machine as well. It's like TikTok's by day and elbows by night. It's really fun. It's really fun. And I think if I can find one-- if there's one stat that I think defines who they are, the number 14 offense, but they are number one in free throw rate. Relentless, relentless remitacks. And Benazia fits into all of that. Still, even in this season that she's had a down season, but still has been a really good finisher and compliments them in every possible way. And this team is just so interesting. They have clear disadvantages because of their inability to space the floor, but it also makes team building for the future really interesting for them. They also are on pace to have the number two pick in this year's draft. And they have Chicago's pick in 2028. They're going to be able to continue to build out this young roster in whichever direction that they want. If they want to surround this team with shooters, I don't think that that will be too hard. If they want to get some more vets, I don't think that would be too hard. But like right now, they're in a position where yes, they're going to make the playoffs. And I would not be surprised if they want a series. Like there are certain teams. Like they just destroyed Atlanta front court wise. Like they just completely won that battle. There are certain teams that I just don't think want to see a team like the Mystics. At the very least, they are going to make things really hard for you and make sure you're a little bit bruised and battered before you have to play your second round match up. On that note, I am thrilled about what's going on with the Toronto tempo right now. And I say on that note, because while Chicago is on pace to give the Mystics a number two pick in the draft, the Toronto tempo are currently on pace to get the number three pick in the draft and currently have a 16% chance of getting the number one pick in the draft. If you listen to this podcast, you know, I have some Toronto tempo biases as a Canadian. And you also know that I have been rooting for them to not make the playoffs despite that being their desire because I would like to see them build through the draft. And look, their misfortune was my good luck because they had an injury riddled season that made it very difficult for them to live up to the ceiling that they had for themselves. Like look, and look, this is a team that when they are healthy, they are still very good. Like they could have been really good this season. When four of their five main pieces are healthy, they're like seven in three or seven in four or something, but they haven't been healthy for the course of the season. Kiki Rice just came back and she became against Atlanta the first rookie in WNBA history to come off the bench with 18 points and six assists. They almost mount this 25 point comeback against Atlanta, but they still lose. And I love that. Like they're just giving me great entertainment. they're showing a lot of growth, growth points, but they're still losing games. They're one in 12 and they're last 13 games. They have 12 games left. Chicago has 11 games left. Chicago is a 29% win percentage in the last two seasons. And yeah, for anybody who doesn't know, the WNPA draft lottery is weighted with the last two seasons in mind. So, despite the fact that, like for example, a team like Seattle, Seattle has the worst record in the season right now, I believe, or the second worst. They're like 6 and 32. They've lost their last 10 games other than tonight. So, they're 1 and 9. They're last 10 games. But because they're so good last season, they're probably not going to have anything better than probably a top four, maybe a top three pick. Probably not top four, like or odds for top four pick. So, that puts Toronto, which is in its inaugural season in a pretty advantageous position where it's easier for them to race to the bottom. So, in order for them to overcome Chicago, they have to basically, like they'll probably, like if they go 3 and 9, they'll have a 26% win percentage. Chicago's is 29% right now, but they're looking better and they have no reason to tank because their pick belongs to Washington. The temple and Chicago also play each other on September 22nd. So, that could ultimately be the game that decides. All of this, but I'm just really thrilled that after the deadline reports that they were shopping their first round pick, that they didn't end up doing that. And now they're going to have great lottery odds in a draft that features. Maybe two true walk-ins, but Madison Booker and a Hidalgo. This draft is a little bit up in the air. We'll see what happens with them. But this is a really well-constructed team. They know exactly what they're missing. They tried to get her and Shakira Austin, who they tried to get from Washington last season, offering her a restricted contract, but Washington matched. They know they need a post presence. The draft is not particularly great for that, but who cares? You just take the best player available. And when they're healthy, they're really good. So, yeah, I'm just really into what this Toronto team could be. The other thing I wanted to hit, I didn't talk about last week, is the Cleveland sirens. The Cleveland sirens, they announced this name early late last week. And I think a lot of people had questions, like, "Hey, why no Cleveland Rockers?" Cleveland's team used to be named the Rockers. They have the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It's a pretty good name. It's an easy win. It's such an easy fit. There is a risk with something different. And I have seen a lot of people side eye this choice. I'm not going to lie, though. I like it. I like the idea of going with something new. And when you watch the video presentation that they did, A, it was incredible. It was very audacity-coded. You had a basketball in the air. You had these mermaids on the air. Sorry, a basketball in the water. You had these mermaids swimming through the water. And as the video went on, they went from looking really soft and quiet and vulnerable to then turning out, like, "Oh, no, they're actually the aggressor." And then you see their fins and their piercing blue eyes and they're very angular and muscular. And I just love water metaphors. I'm just a big bee-like water, Bruce Lee. That's one of my favorite quotes. I have a tattoo of it. I love the idea of water as a container and as a weapon and as a giver of life. I also think that it obviously fits in with the modern moment right now. It's giving audacity, the siren song. I think what they're trying to do is they're trying to tap into local history. They're trying to tap into the ancient history of Greek lore in the same way that the Valkyries does. But it also kind of has a little bit more of a modern, transgressive appeal, like the siren, if you know you know. And if you're not into this, I totally understand. I think that you should wait until the season comes along and you see a light blue on dark blue shirt with like classic lettering that just says siren and simple block letters. And I think you're going to see the vision and the WNBA teams are clearly trying to appeal to modern apparel trends. Like they're trying to create things that like people would want to wear out that like are a little bit more in the minimalist vein. I haven't always loved that, but like I think I've kind of just I've surrendered to that being what they're doing because it does make a lot of sense commercially. And if you're kind of going to go in that direction, I kind of love this. I'm not going to lie, I kind of love this. We got to talk about the Minnesota links have to talk about the Minnesota links. So they had this win against the aces where Nafisa Collier, like I said at the top of the pod, just looming like the Night King over the seven kingdoms. Her three point shooting, her understanding of the game ability to just like flow into the slipstream of the Minnesota offense with Olivia Miles being able to find her on different actions. Her ability to create for other people just with her off ball movements will get into that when we talk about came back. But ultimately the defensive job that she and the links did against Asia Wilson, I do not think that I have seen a defense crowd Asia Wilson in the way that the links crowded her. And not only did they crowd her, but they did it in a way that made her think and that's ultimately the best thing that you can ever do against a player like Asia Wilson. You're not going to stop her, but if you can contain her a little bit, that makes a huge difference. And it only that that game for me only further in bold and the idea that this year's WNBA finals race as much as there is parity, it does feel like it's links and then everybody else is just a touch below. I love the K-Mac performance. I think it speaks to WNBA offenses operating at a level that we've never seen it speaks to the Minnesota offense like K-Mac being able to spring free for 10 three pointers and granted a lot of them were tough makes but her the fact that she was able to spring free to me is a sign of a healthy well oiled offense. And that was a really interesting game. I think Dallas went into that game basically saying hey, we have to sell out the three point line in order to protect the paint against Minnesota. And you understand that Olivia Miles leads all guards and layups Natasha Howard is top five in layups in the league and now you have Nafisa Collier in the mix ultimately as a defense what you need to do is prevent attempts at the rim. And I was just really impressed by the way that the entire team was really keyed in on finding Caleb McBride off of that coverage and just like the subtle ways in which fee in particular is able to open her up like she can. She can cut in that opens up K-Mac for like a back cut for a layup. There are so many moments like that in that game just honestly. They're just they're just a little they're just a little bit better than everybody else like because they they can do the defensive stuff as well. And this was another playoff type atmosphere I do think no easy fun made a difference like ultimately. The links kind of had the same coverage against the wings but the wings didn't have their shooter and easy would have also been able to chase K-Mac around. I was ultimately pretty impressed by the way Dallas was able to stay in that game despite no easy displays Jessica despite Jessica Shepard going down in the first quarter just a fact that they were even in it for like three quarters and kind of like just not not relenting. I thought was was great but I was just man I was just so impressed with. With everything that they were doing honestly and you're kind of seeing now that fees healthy everybody else is opening up a lot more to. Fees it in that pick and pop three like she keeps it in there it's over when Sasha Howard sit in those voters it's over. But it's also just like like kill him right in particular generating one point eight three points per possession on unguarded jumpers since the feast of collar has been back. That to me just speaks of somebody who is a on a heater but there's also like an alchemy of like rhythm there at the same time miles is getting more open shots. And I think like it just adds dimension to their offense like it adds more options. K-Mac can come off. a ball screen and basically decide whether she's going to run an action with Natasha Howard or Nefesa Collier, which then forces her defender to play her more honest as well. Like she can't be forced in any particular direction and then that ultimately just opens her up a little bit more off of a screen and a little bit of space is just a lot for somebody like Kayla McBride. I don't even know what else to say about it. Like you just, you just, you have Courtney Williams, incredible mid-range shooter. You have all this rim pressure. You have one of the best three-point shooters that we've ever seen. You have MVP runner up who is the only player in the league where when she's at her best, you really start to question who the best player in the league is. Like you start to have those moments. Like with Asia versus Fee, it's such an interesting debate because like Asia is a better player. She has a better resume. Ultimately when you stack it all together, like I do think Asia gets this light edge, but it's like this different sort of style of basketball player to where Asia has is more dominant and she has more of like this like blunt force precision. Like she is going to hammer you in the same way from the same place so consistently over and over again. Like she's going to hit that mid-range jumper. She's going to have the three or four counters to her post up and that's what she does over and over again. Whereas Fee is like a little bit more in the vein of like flexible. Like I think that she's somebody who can play in a lot of different systems. She handles them. They both can handle the ball. They both can shoot threes, but Fee handles the ball a little bit more. She's a little bit more guard-esque. Like she's, they're both incredibly switchable. Like I think one of the things that as I talk through this that kind of gives Asia even more of an edge right now is that I guess like a lot of the points of contrast for them don't really exist anymore because Asia is now a three-point shooter. Asia is now dribbling more. Asia is now driving more on face-ups from the three-point line. She is defending on switches. She just had that incredible defensive play against Caitlin Clark. Like she has modernized her game in a way that combines that dominance that we know from her with like a variability that allows Becky Hammond to do a lot of different things with her. It's still it's just it's still a really fun conversation. Like I think Fee at her best can obviously make life difficult for Asia like we just saw that. But Asia does ultimately come out on top. The other thing I wanted to hit is an Indian Fever who are right there but not quite. They are six and eight in the clutch this season with a slightly negative net rating. And I say that because they've had two games now where they have come very close to beating the Minnesota links and the Las Vegas aces. And ultimately just been out executed in the final minutes of the game. We went into I went into depth on this with Scott Agnes on the field house files podcast. So if you want to listen to some fever talk you can listen to that. But what I'll say here is that I really do see a lot of evolution in this team. I think that obviously they're scoring a historic rate. But I also think that Steph White the offense that she has built has a lot of dimension to it to a point where you know if you were questioning what why the fever weren't just spamming pick and roll which by the way they are running a lot more pick and roll with Caitlin Clark and Alia Boston than they were early in the season. But if you're questioning why they weren't doing that you can start to understand it now because this is an offense that can now beat you in a million different ways like you can do the like even if you even have like Caitlin and Kelsey setting screens for Alia Boston to either pitch it to them or drive to the rim which is a great action because there are so few players that can actually keep up with Alia Boston off of a screen when she's driving to the rim and it just sets her up really beautifully to like start to either either get to the rim right away or or find something in the post or make a play. She's just an incredible playmaking hub and I think that ultimately like running the offense through her is going to end up serving them really well in the playoffs because it just gives them a lot of variability. You can just you can run handoffs with Kelsey Mitchell. Kelsey Mitchell by the way is the second best one dribble pull up three point shooter in the league right now. The only player that is ahead of her is Kelsey Plum. It is just one of the many Kelsey Mitchell stats that I have come to love that explain the absolute torrid scoring run that she is on right now. She also this is a fun inversion like this like this kind of shows how the fever offense operates as far as a way that it creates space. So Kelsey Mitchell a guard is generating more points off of cuts than any guard in the WNBA while Alia Boston a big is shooting 42% on spot up threes which is number three among bigs that take at least one spot up three game. Alia Boston's growth from the three point line has been astronomical and has been one of the most important developments for this fever offense. It just creates so much space and it makes it impossible for for anybody to to guard the big three. So long as you know they just have reasonable options around them speaking of which really happy that McHaleis Timson is starting as well. I think I talked about this in the last podcast or a couple podcasts ago. She the she's just somebody who I think fits in a lot better with what this fever fever team is trying to do on both ends like she provides more room protection and more quickness on the defensive end. She is somebody who can kind of catch the ball one dribble go up for a layup she can get more shots at the rim as opposed to mobilings who is kind of like going for those short jumpers so it just increases the efficiency of the looks at Alia Boston and Caitlyn Clark and Kelsey Mitchell can find for her like if those guys get doubled it's just it just hurts the defense so much more if KK is there because she'll just take it to the rim and she's also just making great plays like she had the beat she had the stop and then like passes a ball over her head behind her behind her to Caitlyn Clark she also had the rim run to the like she had the interception into the Alia Boston pass as well. I think she's always thinking pace I think she's always thinking like get the stop get the ball up the floor quickly which is ultimately what the fever offense is trying to do and I think one of the things that's been unfortunate about the mobilings run in Indiana is that I think it's just been really hard for her to program her basketball mind into thinking that way I think that's part of the reason it's been a tough fit like I think she's one of those people who sees like oh there's only five seconds on the shot clock I better get a shot up as opposed to oh like who can I find right and there's like a cup a number of different variations of that type of thinking that I think have made it a little bit difficult for her but I do hope that her going to the bench kind of helps her a little bit too but yeah this fever team like they're they're figuring some stuff out like they need to figure out how to close these games but I also think you know Caitlyn's a young player I think that she's just going to be the type of person who's like I'm going to have the shoots but I go up against Asia Wilson on the final play of a game um and ultimately she just has to learn that that's like an unnecessarily high risk move at a moment where all you really need to do is just like burn some clock and get a shot up um but that's that's being young and that's just her mentality and I think she'll eventually just like iron out those edges and you know I think you know I think about that links game there's a shot that Alia Boston passed up that she didn't take they're executing they're getting good shots they're just not really making them yet so you know I think I think this weekend showed just how close they are to being a title contender but then also all the ways that um they're a little bit behind as well um last thing I wanted to talk about Angel Reese I think should get the last all WNBA spot amongst forwards we're kind of into that point of the season where you know it's time to start thinking about all WNBA so you know you think about the bigs you got Stewie you got Asia you got Alia Boston they're shoewinds for that third that the first the first three forward spots Angel Reese has been having a quietly incredible basketball season one of the functions of her going to Atlanta is that she's kind of just been able to stay out of the noise which is frankly incredible and impressive when you consider that the WNBA has once again been defined by noise this season but look she's averaging 16 points 11 rebounds I think two and a half stocks um and she's been at Atlanta's most important player while playing out of position for most of the season as well and now that she's playing her position I think she's going back to being able to do the things that she likes to do as a playmaker that she likes to be able to do defensively while still maintaining that toughness but I think that when I think about Atlanta Alicia greys had a bit of an up and down season right now it's had a very up and down season Angel Reese has been the most consistent player on a team that is going to make the playoffs. And I think it would make sense for her to make an all WNBA team. She has a little bit of competition, but I think some of it's fading. Like, I don't think Jessica Shepard has been as good in the second half of the season. I think Natasha Howard, now the Nefesa Collier is back, is going to fade a little bit as well. Shakira Austin is someone who I think could, definitely be someone who gives a angel a little bit of trouble. Definitely gave Angel a little bit of trouble against when the mistakes played the dream this weekend. But other than that, I think it's a pretty close, it's a tight race. And I would probably give Angel the edge because of how important she is to Atlanta. Not to say Shakira is not important to Atlanta, but I think when you think about who the best player on Washington is, probably Sonya Citron, you could have an all WNBA conversation around Kiki as well, but I think Angel edges her out. Yeah, and I say that because it allows me to talk about how perfect Atlanta's cap table is, they're gonna have to pay her if she makes the all WNBA roster. They're gonna have to give her a max a year early because of the epic provision that was in this year's CBA that allows rookies to sign max contracts in their fourth year. And it's not even gonna really hurt them. It's kind of incredible. They have, if you were to make a list of who has all of the best, who has the most like good contracts in the WNBA, it's probably Atlanta who was simultaneously able to bring in Angel Reese while also retaining last year's core. And you also don't feel like any of the big stars are underpaid either. Like they just did a great job with that and if they do need to make moves, every single player on that team is potentially tradable as well. And like, I just have to say, hats off to Dan Pat over and the crew over there. They're doing a great job. I think that's it for me. I was want Stefan. Would you like to, would you like to pour one out for Benadjolini Hamilton since you weren't able to? And cause you weren't out on the date that she got waived. Stefan, as our residents New York Liberty fan, I know you weren't able to be on the show when we talked about Benadjolini Hamilton being waived by the New York Liberty. And I just wanted to give you an opportunity to, I don't know, share your feelings. I want to hold some space. - Yay, I appreciate the forum. I appreciate the soapbox as they like to say. Benadjolini Hamilton, thank you. From all Liberty fans, I'm pretty sure you've gotten a million tweets and Instagram DMs and comments and whatever over the past week or so. But just the steadiness that you provided to this franchise over the past five years. The nights when JJ didn't have, the nights when Stuart didn't have, the nights when Sab didn't have it. You were the constant, you know, you brought defense. You brought your mid-range jump shot to us. Like we couldn't have done any of this without you. So it's super sad to see her go. I wish she had the opportunity to like, play herself in the shape and like really get back, you know, like just the whole, the whole run from winning the title, coming back, getting hurt, the unrivaled, she goes out in place, she gets hurt again, misses the whole season. And then it's like this season, this summer when, like my, my mind went, when they, they signs to two, when they went and got saddened, I was like, damn, Laney's gone and sucks. Because sad too is that caliber player, but it's like, you know, it's like a, I don't want to call it an upgrade, but it's like, you, you getting a higher level player at the same position. And then they were like, no, Laney's coming back. And I was like, oh, we are fucking stacked. I don't know if you remember, we did the positive affirmations a few months ago. And I was just like, we're so loaded. Like we have nine to 10 girls that we can all play and they all are really, really good. And I thought, I really thought Ben Asher was going to be a part of this for at least one more year, just to get another crack at it. And I felt like she had a spot on this team. And I just don't know. Maybe three months down the line, we'll find out more about the story about her, Chris DeMarco and what actually happened in the locker room. 'Cause I feel like something bad happened between the two of them. She's such a pro for her to just not get traded at the trade deadline, A, and B to get waves and get D and P for like a month straight. It was just like, it was weird. Like the last moment of Ben Asher Laney's Liberty career is her throat, mistakenly throwing a shoe. That's the breathing, right? Like that is that she not had been the way that she not had been. It's not going to be the last memory, but that should not have been her last memory as a New York Liberty in my opinion. So I'd say it's sad to see her go, but I think Washington is the perfect fit. You guys were saying Dallas, which they could have used another vet over there, but I think Washington and just what they're doing, they're just like, they're the most fun story in W right now to me. Just like on a night and night out basis, Friday night when they played the dream and it was just like everybody, she took the matchup personal with Angel. She's like, I'm gonna bust your ass tonight, Angel. Like you could get this work all day, all die. You got so, yeah, you got Kiki. You got just so many good players over there. And you just add Bonagia to that core as just a vet and it's like somebody who's won. I think that means something. Now will they go out and win a title? I don't know, but will he surprise me if they beat a good team as a six or seven seed this year? I wouldn't be surprised. I don't think they'll be the links. So I'm just gonna go and record and say that. But like if you told me they beat the fever in a first round matchup, would I be surprised and say no, I wouldn't be at all. I wouldn't be at all. You told me they beat the Valkyries in a first round matchup. Wouldn't be surprised at all. Valkyries would be a great matchup for them. That would be some high level high intense playoff basketball if they match up in a first round. Yeah, I think it's a perfect fit for her. I can't wait to see what she does over there. I think she's gonna add another dynamic to them and just, they play hard on defense as you mentioned. Just added somebody else like that who's just like, "Pennageal, just pick up people 94 feet, just for the fuck of it." Yeah. And it's just like, yo, you can't teach that kind of dog. You know what I mean? That's, I think that's where I was just so baffled that she didn't get any play in time this year. There were games, there's just like two games that particular to me where I was just like, there's no reason why Benages is not playing. And it was the Dallas game when it went down to Dallas and won an overtime. And like, a reek was just like, having her way in a fourth quarter. She's just like, she was rainbow three step acts everywhere. I'm just like, man, I would've been Puppinajian and just like, yo, kind of wore off for a few minutes. Like, just make it, make it tough. And then when I went-- Make her see something different. Yeah, and then when they went to Indiana and they played the fever, this is probably like a month ago. And like, Caitlin and Kelsey were just going off. Like, there was nothing to ask the A could do with her. There was nothing sad could do with her. Like, they just were too small for them. I want to put a big physical guard like Benagesian on one of them and just say, yo, hey, just-- for a fourth month for a few, just make every shot tough. Like, if they make the shots, they make the shots, but just make them tough. Let's make them take two extra dribbles. It may add up by the end of the game. And I just-- I don't know. I really think it was something to have between her and Chris. And I hate that it had to go this way. But we're going to need somebody of her elk. Like, Stewie is out there guarding point guards right now, which she's amazing doing. But if you have her and Benagesian doing it, it makes everything easier. Now you kind of have Stewie playing off the help. And like, you could funnel some things her away. I don't know, man. It's just-- it sucks it had to happen this way. But I say all that to say, Benagesia, thank you for everything. Sincerely, a Liberty fan. You are amazing. You are a champion. You are all star. You are-- you are everything here. Like, you built your career here in a sense. And you became the pro that we all grew to love. One day, you'll probably be in a ring of honor with the rest of the girls who won that title that year. I think, yeah, tell me that Benagesia was sad, JJ, and Stewie in a few years. I wouldn't be surprised if we go and see her get her day put in a raft this one day. I would be like, you know what? She had a great five year with the Liberty, and she really-- she won a title with us. She brought us our first title ever, so that is always going to matter. She did. She sacrificed a lot to help bring that title. She also, I think, brought an important sense of pride to a team that didn't always play with it. And the nights at the Liberty just needed an injection and somebody to say, hey, we actually had to step up and defend somebody. She was that person. And they're kind of in a tough spot now, because Leo Fibic is trying to make her way back this foot injury that that we don't have a timetable on. And if you don't have that big wing defender for the Liberty, like you said, it puts way too much on Stewie, that has a trickle-down effect. - Yeah. - And you ultimately aren't going to be able to defend anybody. - Yeah, you need, you need, if you're going to get to that level, you're going to need a good wing defender for the Olivia Miles of the world, the Jackie Youngs of the world, the Caitlin Clarks of the world. Like if you just look at every team that's a playoff team, they all have to look at God. And you need somebody to just say, hey, I'm going to let this person pass in for 30 minutes of game, just to like make life hard for you. I don't say we're lacking it, but it's just everybody has to take off a little bit of what they do to make that happen. And I don't think that helps. - I think maybe, I think we can say they're lacking it. Like the point of attack defense is really bad. And the rim protection is really bad too. So it's just, it's like it's a really bad formula for long term playoff success. Were you one of the people in the crowd booing Chris Demarco? - No, no, I wouldn't boo him. But I understand, I understand the frustration of, it's all things considered with this liberty season, like just watching it. I had this conversation on Sunday with somebody I met. It's just like, it's been a whirlwind of a season. It's not like we're bad, but it's also like, what are we, you know what I mean? Like you're still trying to establish a new identity under this new coach and regime. And then there's just like so many things I'm not playing Laney. Everybody's not healthy this season. There's just the four game lineage streak. The four game losing streak into a five game one streak. It's like, that is the ultimate like tell, tell sign of what happened this entire season. If you look at it from a stretch. If you look over this last month and a half of like, they look like the worst team in the league to like, all right, the liberty are good in two weeks. It's like, what is this team? I'm trying to figure out what's the real identity. How are they gonna win? Are they a contender or are they not? And I don't know Chris being a first like, first year coach helps him at all. And him being a, this is his first time coaching in WMBA as well. Like, you know, I mean, coming from an NBA standpoint where it's just a little, it's just a little bit different to where Sandy, where Sandy built a culture here, you know. Sandy won. People were frustrated with Sandy and the lack of her not paying her bench after a while. But I don't know. It's just like a weird, it's a weird, weird thing. Like, there's nights where they look amazing. Like, like you mentioned, that commission is cup game when they went to Vegas and beat the shut out of the aces. Or when they beat the aces to win it. I mean, granted, you have no Asia Chelsea great leaves early. There's some good wins in here. Did they, the links came to the garden and they like kind of shut Olivia Miles water off that night and beat them pretty convincingly. It was like, okay, this team is pretty good, I guess. But then those four games in the road, it's like, they'll go to Indiana and not look like a good basketball team for 48 minutes. Like, I don't know how this team is gonna even make the playoffs at this point. Well, they're locked in to make the playoffs luckily. But I do think that part of the issue is that the WNB is just really top heavy right now. Yeah. The Liberty are 20 and 13. They have a 60% win percentage. Right. And that only gets to the seven seed right now. Like that. Which is crazy. And as you look at like every game, they're on a five game winner streak and they probably jump one spot in the playoffs. They did, what are they seven tonight? Yeah, they're seven. Yeah. So like they legit jump one spot after winning five games because the team before them just won seven games and then you have, you just have all of these like great obeys of teams. Or it's just like, you kind of just want to get the best position. I'd say it's get anywhere but eight and let's just like made odds. Just avoid the links. Avoid the links. You don't want to play them that early. Like you want them to get beaten up a little bit. Like, let them go have a dog fight with the with the mistakes for the first round. Like, let them go get worn out with them. Yeah. And you go figure it out to stick around or the finals if you need to. But like, don't, don't let them come in with that. Like fees get her sea legs under her right in time for the playoffs. It's just like, ah, we're fucking cooked like this team. We thought they were going to take a setback this year and they look, if not scary as they did two years ago when we faced a bit of finals. It's just, it's tough, man. It really is tough. Yeah, looking back at the coaching thing too. I'm also, I'm just wondering if there's just a level at which like they kind of let the illusion of the perfect coach get in the way of just sticking with the great coach that they already have that was really good at managing all the personality. What would you be able to make Sandy play her bench? Like, if she just went so far away from doing it, like what she had went the opposite way. Would the pendulum has swung the opposite way? I'm happy for you. I mean, look, at the time that Sandy was fired, I understood. Why? Like, I don't feel like this Liberty team ever really lived up to its full potential, just with all the talent that they had. I think that was part of what was always kind of a little bit unsatisfying about them. I, at the time, I got it. Like, I like the training camp. I liked the way that they were running their offense, talking about simplifying things. I think if this season hadn't been so injury-written, perhaps we are having a different conversation. Maybe they're at top 14. Maybe, but at the same time, it's just at, like, Christa Marco, who I think is a smart coach, is just very green for this position. And ultimately, it's probably just too big of a risk to take for a team that's trying to win a title to bring in a coach that has never had WNBA experience before, while also replacing one of the most experienced coaches that we have. And look, look at, like, if you look at what Sandy Brindello is doing with a tempo, she has no issues with playing her bench for that team. Like, a lot of their best players come off the bench. So maybe it's not actually about the bench, or as much as it was about her trust in the specific personnel. And I also just don't think-- I think sometimes front offices kind of outsmart themselves, and they get very fixated on the one thing that the coach won't do that they really want the coach to do. It's like, you've got to just kind of let the coach coach sometimes as well. They're probably seeing things in practice that are preventing them from making some of the decisions that you want them to make, as well. And frankly, I don't like-- was that the big thing that she wasn't paying her back? To me, I felt like that was her Achilles heel last year, just coming off of the year that they had going off-- coming off for winning a title. Like, you kind of figured it out within the title. But at the same time, it was the bench that kind of kept us. If you don't have a NERA Saturday game in game 5, don't know if they win. Saturday wasn't good in game 5 at all. We talk about the shot, but there were some brutal games in there in the finals. JJ is amazing. But there's just days where JJ just doesn't care. She just looks like she hasn't woken up halfway through the game. She doesn't want to play today. That to me, I think you probably needed a new voice in there. I don't know if it was maybe this year. And like you said, if you have-- which we could bring it all back. If you had Benazia last year, I don't know-- you know what I mean? I think that kind of helps out a little bit. Maybe that Mercury series doesn't go the way it does because you actually do have a wing defender out there to kind of get what a Kalea cop or-- You know what I mean? Just do something like that. I don't know if it was the time, but I think they had to at some point. I think they had to bring a new voice in there at some point. Well, I'm thinking about this roster from last year, right? And everybody always wants to see more bench players play. Well, like Kennedyburg got plenty of run. Yeah. Rebecca Gardner can't really trust. Niera Sobli, super up and down and dealing with injuries. Marine Johannes, yeah, she could have played Marine more. More, yeah, for sure. But like we also, like you see the volatility of playing somebody like Marine a lot, too. Like there are nights where it looks beautiful. And there are nights when it's just really not what you want. Emma Mieseman didn't work out. Yeah, I think that also played a big part, too, because I thought everybody was saying, there was the infamous Nakai's tweet, sorry, Nakai's, I don't want to put you under the gun like that. But he was like, it's overhand over the chip. Well, everybody was saying everybody was saying everybody was saying and it just did it work out that way. I don't know. It's just such a, it's a tough thing. And I think the part that everybody's going to get lost in, we are in the middle of a dynasty right now. I think I think people have to like take a step back and really like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We are in the middle of the dynasty. There's one title. No, I mean, no, we're in the middle of the aces dynasty. We're in the middle of the aces dynasty. So like, everything should be graded on a curve. No, we're in the dynasty, that's the liberty. I've talked about the liberty, the links. Like these teams, it's like teams that were in the '90s basketball. Like we were in the Kobe Shack era or the Dunkin' Era. It's just like, you know, like those rockets titles should count for like three titles each base. Yeah. like you have to be graded on a curve. You just in the middle of something that is just, we're never gonna see, I always say we never gonna see it again, but we are just in the middle of something. We haven't seen the comments of the late 90s or the 2000s. It's just, it's that, like the ACEs are that. So like the fact that you went in, got them out of there, beat them and then won, but then they came back even better when it looked like they were the worst team in the league last year and then figured a way to just get back to another title. It's just, you, and it says, I think some people are overthinking it, but you also want to maximize your title window too, right? Like your title window can close very fast. And you have these three amazing pillars of your franchise that you want to get the most out of. But sometimes you got to look around and say, damn, it's like, what the hell can we have done? You know, it's the famous Demarder Rosen quote. Like, what do you think the Raptors could have done like, what do you think we're trying to do? I mean, have LeBron James is the question, right? Like that, that's the answer. It's tough, man. It's extremely tough. Yeah, and hey, look, you know, if they get Leo back, ultimately you go to the playoffs, you have a blank slate. Yeah, and listen. Sabrina has incredible July. Do we just have to get MVP? We're good. Yeah, sobby's waiting in the wings. If she could get back on the floor, I think she could show up a lot of holes in the team. I know she's going to need some time to get herself back and shape, but just having that explosive score coming off your bench just adds a different kind of punch. You could play her with Stuart. You could play her with JJ if you need to and kind of just give one of those two a break and not have much worries. It's like, I don't know. I think getting those two back, I feel a lot more confident on the run if that was the case. Yeah. How are you feeling about the Fever game? Um, it's Caitlin playing. Yeah, I think so. All right, well, I think she was on entry for today. So she's always on the entry report. Yeah, so I mean, if she plays, I think it's a good, this is a good test for both teams. And I think this could, this could be a win that can kind of like shape how the rut is going to go into the playoffs. If you're able to win this game and kind of jockey yourself into a six game win streak, say you get a Mystics loss. Mhm. The Mystics lose one of those games today since then you just, you figure it out and you're at like six. You just want to kind of put yourself at like the five six range and just get yourself into a decent match of worse. Like, all right, we're not that far off from this team. I think it's, I'm so confident about it. They've been playing really well at home. So I have, I feel like they're do for an impressive win. Like I feel the last impressive win was maybe that over time game against the wings, although I probably, I'd probably lean more towards the links win that you referenced or the commissioners cup. I think the commissioners cup win was probably my favorite Liberty win of the season. A little bit too, right? It was like they didn't, they didn't give them the game. But it was like, they went out and fought for it and they figure something sounds just like they spam the, the, the sad stewie pick a roll to finish the game is just like, oh, wait, we have two amazing players that can run a pick a roll. So let's just do this over and over until we figure some out, right? Um, I, yeah, I feel confident. I think, I think this could be a really good signature win in the sense if they, if they're able to take this down tomorrow night. They definitely, they have a couple of measuring stick games coming up as well. Like they're going to have to play the fever again in two weeks. They've got the calories. They've got another game against the links and they go back to back against the dream as well, which I imagine will be interesting. Like, because those two would be playing for seeing, yeah, yeah. So we'll see. Look, I think they're one of those really weird teams where I could see them flaming out in the first round and I could also see them winning the title, which I imagine as a fan. Yeah. What are they? Like this is the question of the New York Liberty. What are they? And we asked it until the end of this season. Yeah, maybe I'll get my answer at the end of the season. Hopefully it ends with a title, but I'm not over confident in that this year going into the playoffs. I'll say that. That's I think that's very valid. We might have to do positive affirmations again before the playoffs start. I'm ready, man. I need to work on my breathing anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll send you some meditations. Please, please do. Please do. Great. Okay. It's the fun. Thank you. This was fun. I'm sorry for putting you in the spot. No, we're here. I felt like you had me to talk about what's going to happen with you. And thank you. It's nothing better. I feel important when you bring me on as your guest. You are important. I am an unofficial WMVA reporter when I get here. Yes, you are. I'll take it. You're very official. I'll take it. I'll take it. I'll take this and add it to the list. You gave us on the grounds New York Liberty commissioners cup takes like you were you were in it. Yeah. You were in it. I wasn't there. You were. I'm Patrick. I'm coming for your job, baby. So don't Patrick. Don't Patrick is fantastic. Honestly, there's so much good play by play talent. That's one of the things that's been cool about like the new media rates deal. This year is like you're seeing so many like I mean, some of these are familiar faces, but just getting to hear them more, more often like don is so awesome. I see. Young is great. I see. I see. Young is so great. Zora Stevenson. Brandon Gleschean, who we had on Trica Foster, Brasby, like there are just so many good play by play voices that are like often coming. Yes. So fun. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to all those guys. Shout out to you, Stefan. Thank you for hopping on. Thank you for producing. Shout out to the listeners. And we'll be back. [MUSIC]