WNBA Finals 101 With Brendan Glasheen

Before this, there's this. As you celebrate the game, take a deeper look at its roots. The people grow in the grass, pave in the lots, weld in the goalposts, inspecting every football. The hardworking people that make every Sunday possible. Carhartt is proud to outfit the crews behind the game. Visit carhartt.com slash join the trades to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Major League Baseball. There is nowhere left to go. Two teams, one championship. Watch the World Series. Yeah, the World Series presented by Capital One on Fox and Fox One. No time like October. Visit mlb.com slash postseason to learn more. Anything is possible. Hello and welcome to the Ringer WNBA show. I'm Sarit Sohi and I am joined today by Brendan Glashin. He is the voice of Unrivaled, the voice of the Connecticut Sun-Sunset. Here, RIP. Still not used to it. Yeah, it must be weird, right? Must be weird. I was just at Mohegan for two days for UConn. I was at Mohegan in Syracuse for the Hall of Fame exhibition. Uh-huh. Walking in there Monday was bizarre. That's eerie. Because there are certain things that are still there, like the Sun Legends banners, the finals appearances banners, some signage, the chairs are still there, like the old school logo. But, like, a couple of different things, though. Like, no rug. Of course, the court was different, but it didn't feel the same. But knowing it was not a WNBA game, it made it more like. I kind of, you know, we gift-wrapped what happened at the end of September, and it was just, it was still a different, because it wasn't the same league or teams and different level, but. Yeah, it's eerie. Yeah, it is. It's got to be like walking into a house you used to live in and seeing everyone's moved the furniture around, and there's, like, a. There's just, like, a dust spot where you used to have, like, a family photo. It's weird. Yeah, when I was here, this is what it was like. Right, exactly. Like, you know, have you thought about doing it this way? But the staff there is fantastic. The Mohegan folks that are there for everything. They're there for concerts. They're there for conventions. They're all. It was fun. I just kept saying to the same people I would recognize and go, they can't get rid of us yet. They can't get rid of us yet. So, it was good. It was good. It was good. This episode is presented by Walden University. Whether you're on the court or building your career, getting better takes work. That's why Walden University helps working professionals get the W with tempo learning, so you can earn your degree at your own pace while gaining practical skills through real-world scenarios. You'll also learn from faculty with real-world experience and have support start to finish. Walden University, set a course for change. Ready to start? Visit waldenu.edu today. Certified to operate by Chev, tempo learning available in select programs. Well, Brendan, I'm really excited to have you on today. We're going to do a bit of like a WNBA finals 101. I thought you'd be the perfect, the guest as I just, I have always thought that you were one of the more entertaining play-by-play announcers, but you have a way of making the game accessible and also getting into the nitty gritty stuff. And that's going to be our goal today. Something for, something for the, the sickos and something for the people that might be strolling in, you know, thinking like, Oh, what's going on with these WNBA finals? It's kind of the idea of what our jobs are. Like when you, when you're the voice of a team, you, there's institutional knowledge that if, individual fan base has, so you have to be respectful of that. Like, don't, don't insult your audience. Like there are like, to your point, there are folks that come into this and are diehards of the league, a team, they know their stuff, but then you, can you like zoom out 10,000 feet? Like, let's just figure out why we're here, what we're doing it for. And like you said, fun exercises as well for people like us too. We get so in the weeds that we kind of forget. Like I look at, for example, the golden state Valkyries for the last two, two years, they have been the picture of WNBA functionality. They have been, they have been the cream of the crop as far as a practice facility goes, as far as a fan environment that they've created in Valhalla, as far as Natalie Nakase's vision goes to the point where I've started to take some of these things for granted, but this is also to take it for granted. It's also to undersell how fantastic of a story this is as well. A year, two franchise going to the WNBA finals, having the, the best start in expansion history in the WNBA finals and sports. I think the only comparable is probably the, the Vegas golden Knights who went to the finals, kind of similar, similar sort of thing where they had this vision. And I, I was thinking about it, listening to the Atlanta CEO talk, and I don't think this was shade. I think she was just talking about the differences in their build. Atlanta, they get new ownership group five years ago after Kelly Floepfler is forced to, you know, sell the team shamed into selling the team. And she loses an election. Thanks to the WNBA players. One of the most iconic moments in WNBA history, Larry goddess diner comes in and he hires Dan Pat over and they have a five year plan to get back to contention to contention. And I think it's, it's two teams that are now kind of at the top of at least what would be my front office rankings. And they've showed the ways in which the aces and Liberty, who, who used to be the cream of the crop, they've been lacked now by these two teams, but they've gotten to it and they've had to get to it in two very different ways because you think they've been lapped that. Yes. As far as team building is functionality. Okay. All right. Okay. That's got it. Got it. I've got, I've, I was, I was going to save this, but I was thinking of doing a bit of a front office rankings to think about free agency later in the, in like a, you know, as, as we get kind of closer to that, they are my number one and number two is where would like, is that? No, no, no, I don't, I don't definitely open to, I don't, I don't. So I, I think laughed is strong. Like, yeah, they're really good. They've built the, those are two separate discussions. I think is your point. Okay. Fair, fair, fair. Well, they don't have the titles. They don't have the resume. Dan, Dan helped build the aces. Like right now, when you get number one picks Asia, Jackie, you would track Chelsea to come in. You'd fill out your roster properly. Now we, I think the last time we chatted, could they, could they dive into the international pool a little bit more? Now they got Yamamoto who shined in the preseason game. So that was a mid season ad. And with New York, I think it's a matter of just finding the proper way to connect the pieces, but they've got some young, you know, Carrera is a, is a player. I watched at the FIBA world cup. It was really, really impressive in their guards. They're, they're, they're multidimensional in their garden. So yeah, but like they, they both won championships and there's that's their standard. I just, I just felt when you said laugh, I was like, wow, that to me, that's, Hey, I'm all about take I'm in, I'm in, I was just, I caught me off guard. That's all. No, I like a good, I like a good take deconstruction. Absolutely. I think we do it all the time here. The WNBA universe is filled with hot takes. We have to do it sometimes. When you got eight days between a conference fine or the semifinals and the final, what you got to show to do today. You know, exactly, exactly. Um, anyway, sorry to throw you off there. Oh no, no, you're totally fine. No, it's fun. Um, I think the thing, the thing that makes Atlanta and golden state similar to me, um, are the fact that I think that these are two teams that have really built around depth and they built around defense. And I think that for the aces and Liberty, some of these other teams, I think it was really like construct your big three and then build around them. And I think that because the season is 44 games, now we are having our first seven game series, potentially in the finals. Um, some of the teams that are a little bit more top heavy, they ran out of gas and with Atlanta and with golden state, I think both these teams, especially golden state, Natalie and the Cassie, um, her career ended due to an injury. So she has always been very, very mindful of the load that is on players. Load management is something that, you know, WNB teams are increasingly thinking about. And I think both these teams were very, very mindful of the longterm sort of plan that you have to have in order to actually be peaking at this particular moment. Whereas the other two, I think that very star heavy and look, WNB finals have always been defined by stars. This is going to be the first WNB finals that is not, it doesn't feature an MVP in a very, very long time. So it does, it does feel like a little bit of a, of a changing of the guard for me. And we have two teams that are kind of on the vanguard of that. And like the stars on each side, I think are just scratching the surface. Like you don't have a star in their prime. Like you look at Atlanta, Alicia gray probably is in the prime of her career, right? That's not true, but she was a top five MVP vocator last year. Right. But Ryan and angel are just doing this. They're moving my hand upward trajectory. And even like Gabby Williams, who is the ultimate. And I know Gino Auriemma highlighted this for UConn players and how they're all very, similar in their approach to their craft. and their approach to their teammates. But Gabby's getting this, when Gabby said this, this is her first real opportunity to be like, I know this is like fan chatter, but like the number one option. But she doesn't even play like that. Now, when they need a bucket at the end of the game, you're giving it to her and you let her decide or dish to Tip Hayes or Veronica Burton. Even Burton's just, Burton was nearly out of the league three years ago and she goes to Connecticut and reinvigorates her role and reinvigorates who she can be as a pro. So there's a lot of unfinished product in front of us here. And to your point, they're in the finals. There's no MVP, but there's probably a handful, maybe half a dozen that could be in the picture, in the discussion. That is fascinating. And they are built on their depth and built on their defensive identity. One thing I wanted to ask you about is, this is something that the Atlanta Dream CEO said. And I don't think it was shade. I think they were just kind of reflecting on their own build. But they said something along the lines of, it's a lot harder to do a rebuild where there already is something versus starting from scratch. Because you have to regain the trust. You have to regain, you know, just with the fan base. Whereas I think that you look at the Golden State Valkyries, it was this blank canvas for Ohama Nianen and Natalie Nakasi to project a vision onto. And you have this fan base, it's in Golden State, in Oakland in particular, that has had a lot of loss when it comes to like sports teams, right? Losing the Raiders, losing the A's, you know, the Chase Center, basically pricing out Warriors fans. So there's a lot of enthusiasm for this team in Golden State. But I also do think, in the WNBA in particular, where sometimes I think history and sometimes, you know, even you look at the Gateway Center, right? Like that is the existing infrastructure and they've moved it out of the State Farm Arena. But sometimes that existing infrastructure can actually be a bit of a detriment to growth. Whereas like the Valkyries, they just got to hit the ground running 2024 when women's sports is, like there's never been more momentum behind it. And they've taken that and ran with it. Well, they've gotten a lot of shit right. Like Golden State has nailed a lot of their, like their expansion picks. They clearly identified Gabby Williams as a priority in free agency. There was chatter, if I'm not mistaken, in the free agency period ahead of last year. And the irony is, and I don't know this to be true. I'm just, I'm asking the question. Like were stars like, I'm not sure what they're doing yet. And I clearly, how would, why would you not want to play there? I mean, Tiffany Hayes comes out of retirement to play that final three months, four months with the Aces. And then decides to go to Golden State and loved it and said, I want to go play there. Like, so clearly the buy-in of Natalie and that entire front office is really strong. For Atlanta, I would say though, like it's a good problem to have to me if Alicia Gray is a starting point. Like they went and got her from Dallas 22 season. I don't have it right in front of me, I think, but they've had her in the building. Well, Dan's first move was drafting Ryan and Nas. That was his first draft. And then Alicia, yeah. Well, Nas is a pretty good get too. Really good. So they capitalized, they're capitalizing on second round picks now. And you've mentioned this, like you want to have your big three, but how do you fill it out and have the proper pieces? Like Borlase is going to be a heck of a player. Wow. Really, really impressed. Now that Australia had some injuries that World Cup, but Borlase poured in 30 off the bench in a knockout game or maybe the Brown before that, or it was a knockout game, if I'm not mistaken, in the quarters or the quarter qualifier. But no, I don't think it's, I think just, I think the point of that, the point of that, the point of that, the point of that point was it's great. And you said this, it's great where the game is heading and timing is everything in life, nevermind in sport, but Golden State with the proper resources, the proper investment, their ownership group had a vision to get a team to the Bay 10 years ago. And for them to play it out and be really, really particular and really intentional about each of their moves, whether it be staff, whether it be player development, player selection, identifying players in a trade or free agency, mostly some free agent moves as of late, but really nailing their expansion picks and how to international scouting has become at the forefront more than ever. And Atlanta, yeah, they had some cleanup to do. They had to clean up some things, but players love Atlanta, love the city. And when you get Ryan and then you get the players, you go out and get Angel for two first round picks, that's looking better by the day, obviously. They felt like they could have very easily not went out and got Angel and said, hey, you know, we came up short against Indiana last year. It's a series they probably should have won. I think they knew that. They all knew that. They should have won that series. At the very least, they could have at least given Vegas a battle. Angel gives them another layer of depth, but as we've all witnessed, she has embraced, a leadership role of buy-in toughness. We're the best team left. I don't care what anybody tells us. Our timeline is now, and that's how they're acting. And they're doing this without Bree Jones, which is really impressive. Okot gives them a nice stretch of minutes here and there. They've relied so much on Angel to hold down the four. And I'm fascinated by that angle in these finals is this is going to be their toughest test yet against not individually, I mean, Kia Stokes has had a hell of a year. Don't get me wrong, but that's a really well-connected defensive team that can throw a lot at Angel, but vice versa. Angel can throw a lot at them because I'm not sure, but their big depth. Is that enough? Um, Kayla Thornton plays above her size, but Kayla Thornton is a great example of all of this. Kayla Thornton has her role, not a role, but her production has diminished, but I don't say that as a slight because, they add Gabby and Kayla Thornton still has found, or they have found ways. And so is Kayla to be impactful, even with not shooting as much and scoring 15 a game, it might be nine a game, but can still be really effective in low usage situations. Yeah. That's all about the buy-in of what of their program. And that's really impressive to just in year one to tweak that. And it's going well off an injury. Off of an injury. Yeah. Well, I think, I think Kayla is actually a great example of both like the development and the sacrifice, right? Like she comes in six women from the New York Liberty comes in and she's in a starting role. She becomes an all-star off of a lot of what was, I think not only internal development, but also Natalie Nakasi's ability to see the type of player that she could be. Then she gets injured. She has, and then she has to sacrifice as well. Like she does the all-star thing. And then she also is able to like kind of pull back to, I think, uh, I don't, I don't know that I've seen a level find the way to say this. Angel Reese is on a trajectory of proving the haters wrong. That is like maybe heretofore unseen in sports. I don't even look at it that way, to be honest. I really don't. I mean, I know that's some folks want to get in that blender. Like I've said all along, like for any young player, whether it be Caitlin Clark, Paige Beckers, Angel Reese, Rekia Jackson, go right down the list. Like you just said it. Think about this. You just mentioned development in the same sentence with Kayla Thornton, who's been in the league for 10 years. Like this league coaches say it all the time. This league is hard. This league is small. It's 15 now was 12. You're drafted. And now we're asking so much of these young players to come in and be super impactful, which I think kind of comes with, with the territory. I've always felt that way. Like, Hey, the money's coming in, they're being covered at a really high level. You have brands and IL that, that, that that's really just beginning, but really, really excellent faces at the forefront of it right now in this, in this game specifically, nevermind all sports, but in this league angel was never, no, I don't think anybody's a finished product and your, your, your demands and your asks in college are not necessarily going to be the same. When you go from Gabby Williams is a perfect example of that. I just saw Gino Auriemma at Mohegan sun the other day doing Yukon Syracuse basketball hall of fame exhibitions. And it was just fun to cut. Cause like with Gina, with me, with I've done mostly W I've dabbled in the college game a little bit, not as much in the last half decade, but just getting Gino's take on it. And I know he had that great quote about the four Yukon players that are playing for golden state. But even Gino was like, we asked Gabby to play center. Yeah. Yukon at times, not in all four of her seasons, but your role is different sometimes based on when you play for a great program like Yukon. Now we're seeing Gabby unlocked a little bit, playing an entirely new role. And even when think about when Gabby was in Seattle, when Gabby was in Chicago, just kind of getting her feet wet, figuring it out. And Gabby's been around for a minute. Now she's a go-to score for a finals team. so I'm look at whatever and, and whatever, Yul's a young star. I'm into it. So. I just but I've always felt all along with Angel like you're allowed to be a young player and you're not I think everyone knew coming in like she's got work to do offensively as far as her like efficiency and the touch around the basket but my gosh it's really we're seeing a we're seeing her play at the highest level as a pro in her three years and it's only to me only going to get better it is one of the interesting questions about like this Angel Reese trajectory that I've been thinking about is how much has her play style changed versus how much has the context around her changed as well right like she goes from one of the worst teams in the WNBA to one of the best um and she also you know while there's always noise around her um I think there's always been there's been one coach who's always been seen been able to see clearly what she can bring and it's Carl Smesko you know like I was at um I was at game three when they closed it out and I asked like you know like you are somebody who values possessions you are somebody who wants to play with pace you want to generate a lot of steals and you want to get a lot of offensive rebounds like you are trying to generate extra possessions for your team at all times like and then you get this player that falls into your lap for two first round picks who's maybe not just the all-time great rebounder but maybe an all-time great possession generator when you think about her ability to get steals and rebounds and then you get this player that falls into your and deflections so you plug her into this context that makes perfect sense for her on top of the fact that this is just a place where she feels better she's friends with everybody on the team she wants to be coached hard she wants to be coached hard as well like this is somebody who you know they told the story about how um Carl Smesko made her shoot two jumpers two three pointers um or made she made her shoot until she made two three pointers in a row in front of her teammates and she's upset at first but she wasn't upset at first because she was like I'm going to she wants that she wants to get better um and it's all borne itself out 39 percent from three um in the in the in the postseason and with consistent improvement throughout the course of the season since missing that game-winning layup against Indiana in August she's shooting 67 percent from the restricted area that's a great that's a great that was like that not rock bottom is strong obviously it's one regular season game but knowing the meaning of those games at the time we felt that was going to be the four or five matchup who had home court in a volatile three-game series my gosh in Minnesota proved that's a volatile series you you you earn the one seed but then you're like oh you're coming to New York Liberty you have championship pedigree um wow yeah that's a good I mean that's really that's a great point that might be the better turning point game to think of awful loss when you have a chance to put it back up I was not a fan I think I don't know Ryan Howard will get mad I like I love Ryan I love Ryan I love seeing Ryan I didn't love the shot by Ryan like let's keep that like the shot the initial shot yeah like from whatever it was 30 feet out I didn't let or 28 feet I didn't love that uh in that spot um but the Ryan Howard sneaky won that moment in a way because all the attention went on Angel right I know horrible shot you know what yeah all what you're saying like that's the bet like car and Carl I'm not this is no like I'm not trying to take credit away from Carl but the belief and the buy-in of the teammates um from the get-go yeah is a big huge and not to say like they're a great play I to me there are really good people and connecting players in Chicago and it just never worked um and Teaspoon always believed in Angel it just there was a lot of things that kind of just didn't go right um Angel spoke up about it Chicago kind of made peace with it in terms of making the deal yeah but the will to win Angel's main thing has always been about winning she won I watched her at unrivaled I mean same it's not it's not perfectly the same because I think Chelsea Gray and Kalia Copper in a three-on-three setting Copper got hurt the same year Angel did in the year they won the championship in that inaugural season Angel came back down the stretch but Angel poured into her teammates poured in with Lexi Hall and Azaree Stevens and even Shakira Austin uh this past year um Angel's got a way about her that um where on the on the surface she's a lot like a lot of the young other young players big brand big personality fans love her but in that in that locker room if you don't have that then I don't think that they're not where they are not where they are right now um and even with USA like that's a loaded at the at the top with Stewart and Collier being sort of the ones that have been around the block and more so Stewart of course Angel is a lot of people that have been even in a lower usage role really maximize 10-12 minutes on some occasions in that FIBA World Cup that's special to to be able to get thrown into it and knowing you're not starting and you're not playing 30 minutes and you're not going to be able to take because I'm looking at it now she's taken 13 threes and five playoff games you're probably not taking a single three in the in the FIBA World Cup so what do you do best and that Tara Blossom hit that ad nauseum like what can you do what are your gifts what are your gifts what are your gifts what are your gifts what are your skills and and Angel's brought that to Atlanta um in a really special way but how they play like they didn't take as many threes this year the Atlanta Dream they did last year but I the minute they got her I'm like wow if they continue to you know if Ryan's gonna shoot seven to eight three it's a game and Alicia's gonna shoot seven to eight a game and even Nas can catch and shoot they're so multi-dimensional and they can win they can win games in the 70s they can win games in the 90s so even if they're not hitting shots yeah Angel gives them that dimension yeah and it may I really bummed out just as a consumer I'm I'm very I was fascinated how it would look with Bree Jones and how Bree Jones would make that work and maybe maybe we're not seeing Angel take as big of a leap if Bree Jones is there just because you got more not necessarily mouths to feed but that just kind of changes your mix and I don't know I'm just curious like what would that have looked like had she had she been available if she would have stayed as well like the other thing that's underrated about Angel season is that she's played out of position and she's slowly sort of adapted to this new role that she has but also it would have completely changed how they play as a team as well like right now this Atlanta team they're so switchable all five positions basically like yes even Jordan Canada because of how like feisty she is she can hold her own you bring in Dewana Bonner who can also bring you that defense defensive versatility as well now Bree Jones look I love Bree Jones nobody will get you easier points in the league I think they would have played in a very different way and and the way that they play now like they have this defensive you know triangle between Ryan I also want to mention since we did give her a little bit of help for that three-pointer I really appreciate the way that she's like integrated the mid-range into her game a little bit more since then as well thousand percent like that's that's something that I think has been Ryan Howard is six foot two like you're big you're physical just as she plays on the defensive end yeah use that to your advantage on yeah exactly I don't think we're the only ones who've said I think there's you know I've talked to Theresa Weatherspoon about it because she coached her with vinyl Ryan's just got so much in that the tools yeah the tools are incredible and but again just scratch to me just scratching the surface like that yeah both these teams are going to be here a while but the thing with Atlanta is like I don't even think they played their best basketball yet that's an interesting thing about like this being like the the WNBA playoffs right it's already it's it's three rounds and the first is really short with the three games and the second is with five games yep it can be short if you sweep I guess right um Atlanta got here in five undefeated games actually haven't lost a game since the one of Bonner joined the team um they're 10 and 0 since then and they have the best they have the best net rating in the playoffs and the regular season I do think that they're ultimately like they were if you look at in hindsight they were the most talented team like they're stacked and they know who they are and they play incredible defense and they win the rebounding battle like there's there's a reason that they're here so I'm not saying that but I do wonder if they're like they they hit the the cool thing about the playoffs is like the more you get tested the more you have an opportunity to hit another gear and I think the Valkyries got punched in the mouth early right like they lost that game two in Dallas they had to play in an elimination game and they had to win in overtime in game three against the champs whereas Atlanta they haven't even had to play their best basketball yet they haven't had Alicia Gray who had a procedure on her left hand today I think she's probably gonna play just based on you know the the smile level of their of her teammates when you uh when you when you hear them talk about her in interviews they don't want to give up to give too much away but they're talking about how like oh it's gonna be great that she's rested um so I think she's gonna play and but but they didn't have her for two games two full games and basically most of game one um Ryan Howard has been shooting in like 35 percent um Angel Angel's been great Jordan Canada's been great has been able to finish at the rim and Nas has been an unsung hero so I'm not saying that she's doing anything wrong she's been incredible she's the things that she's doing defensively but like they're shooting 35 but the ceiling they haven't even their ceiling is what I'm saying so when you but when you say they haven't played their best basketball you're probably you're speaking more so offensively yes offensively I think their defense has saved them their rebounding has saved them they win the possession battle so it doesn't matter they so like miss shots but they we haven't seen like full all like full like you know running from all like firing from all cylinders yet And I'm willing to bet that's probably, how do I word this? Probably not needed. It's probably not going to happen in this series against that team. You know, like, could they have a day? Yeah, but like, that's not what, that's not, you know, you could have a regular season game in July where you hit 16 threes, you shoot 58%. You don't even really need to rebound because you're hitting shots. You don't really need offensive rebounds. If you're hitting 60% of your shots, you're not going to really need to offensive rebound. So the path that they've had, young, you know, and young Washington was really not happy to be there. They were, they were fully, they were a pain. Those games were competitive. They had New York's number in the regular season. We sort of discussed them off the top about where they are as far as their read, not, it's not a rebuild, but it's more of a retool to what their core is and how the core exists or doesn't exist or how they plug and play to make it fit. But that's a championship team that they overcame. And now you've got a team, like you said, in golden state where you don't, I mean, it might be first to 75 points wins these games. 80 for sure to me. But yeah, Alicia gives them another, another downhill threat with Jordan Canada and Ryan that can be a pain to defend. So I, I, I love the, the guard, the guard wing matchup to me is almost a wash and it becomes about the interior and how, how, if Atlanta is going to, if it, so it's your point is if Atlanta even gets close to what their ceiling is offensively, they probably should win the series. Yeah. Right. They probably should win the series. Um, but Kia Stokes proved I can give you 14 one night in an elimination game. Now their backs run against the walls, but Kia who wouldn't like I, Kia Stokes has been so massive. Like SA is a player to hold down the fort. Um, I'm curious what, yeah, I'm just, I'm, I'm mostly curious about what kind of the chess match of, of Carl Smesko and Natalie Nakase of how they're going to throw what at each other from a, from a big player, uh, standpoint. That's what that, that, that's going to be really interesting. I wonder if, how much of Janelle Salon we will see. She's obviously someone that you can play a lot more against Nas Hillman than you could against like, you know, Kalani Brown and Asia Wilson and Cheyenne Parker Tyus. Uh, but even when the aces went small, it seemed like Natalie was reticent to play her. And when you have the rebounding that Atlanta does, Atlanta has the best offensive rebounding margin in WNBA history. Angel Reese with the 18 offensive rebounds, she got generated 22 extra points. The 15 she got against the Liberty. That's total in the playoffs. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Good number. Shaq here. 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The action's on the court and as the official beer sponsor of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting fans closer to the game with a chance to win courtside seats, merch and more. Visit MichelobUltra.com slash courtside to enter. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2026 and ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at MichelobUltra.com slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. We'll see you next time. I wanted to see, everyone's talking like, oh, how much does the rebounds matter? It's like, yeah, that's 22 extra points for your teammates. Like with the way that she's finishing right now too, the efficiency is just out of this world for Angel Reese right now. But I wonder, it's like, okay, do you stick with Kia and sacrifice some of the offense that you get with Janelle Salon and then try to kind of even out that rebounding battle? Just knowing what we know about Natalie, I think I know the answer to that question. Well, funny enough. And then does the bench keep producing? Sorry, go ahead. Golden State's number two in the postseason in offensive rebounding. Yeah. Per game. Well, I think it's because they're playing Kia so much more. It's like she would play 20 minutes in the regular season. Now she's like up to 30. And to me, their guards crash the glass. Like Veronica Burton has got to be a pain to play against. Like, shot goes up. She can slither through traffic. And be in a position to get an offensive board. So Thornton's averaging two a game. Stokes about three a game. Offensive rebounds. Hayes one. Burton one. Kyle and Charles one and a half. Like, you just, you put those three together. There's a, there's Angel's number. Right? So you just, you get about a half a game. You get 1.2 a game. You put it all together. And that's been the directive for them too. That's been the directive. You know? And they shoot. Like we know, like a lot of, like Atlanta last year, Golden State shoots a lot of threes. But they're, it's like you got to. With that, with that ideology, you better get on the offensive glass. Of course, the hope is it goes in. But I think the, the, the perimeter defense of both of these teams is strong. And that, that, like, and you, you said they haven't scratched the surface. Like even Alicia didn't have her best offensive. You know, she scored the ball plenty. That's the pre-throw line. There were more fouls called in the league ever this season. I'm curious. I hope the whistles kind of go away. Like we're in the finals. Like, but these are two similar defensive physical team. Like, don't, let's not get people into foul trouble for no reason. Let's let them, you know, let them play to their strengths. I want to see, I want to see who out-tuffs the other. I don't want the refs to be the ones in charge of that. I will say though, like, I think this is sort of, I don't know, like, well, what's, what, where are you setting the over-under in like minutes in that Tiffany Hayes and Angel Reese get into it? Like, these are both feisty teams. It's going to be, it's going to, it's going to get testy and it's going to be fun. But I, you know, I think it's going to be a challenge for the refs. I think they're going to have to like, obviously keep the game under control, but you got to let them play. Yes. Tip, tip, Tiffany Hayes has had an outstanding postseason. Yeah. Outstanding postseason. Um, hitting open shots, still can get downhill. Like she's in the prime of her career. Probably still isn't in the prime of her career. Like we got to keep it, we got to keep it real. And this is just a part, like some fans get really sensitive and bothered when we bring up like age. I'm like, well, it's just, it's just an anecdote. It's just, it's really a tip of the hat. Like they're still playing at this level and still impacting winning. Like, but tip has played for now at this point has played for a bunch of different teams where she knows what this stage is about and can impact the game and what's necessary for a given game in a 48 minute game over the course of a, of a seven game series now. Um, but she's hit some big shots. Big, big open shots. She's been the sole reason too, that their bench has maintained their production without Janelle Salon. Like even that's, that's an amazing thing about the Valkyries. Like they have the sixth one of the year. She's not playing. Um, but they have a huge loss. It's a huge loss, but at the same time, they still have the best bench in the playoffs. They have their, their, their best bench all year. Best bench all year. Yeah. And that's a huge, that's, that's one of the, that's one of the advantages that they, that they have in the series. I think their bench production is like nearly double Atlanta's and it's like tip Hayes, Caitlin Chan, Kyla Charles. Like, I don't know. What do you think? Janelle Saini can hit shots. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it makes me curious about like, if the series goes long, I wonder if then that starts to favor the Valkyries. Hmm. If the series goes longer, does that help Golden State? Well, yeah, because to your point, Atlanta, I don't know. I think was near the bottom of the league and point production from the bench, bench usage. Um, cause they really, what they go to Borlase, they'll go to Bonner. Um, well, Bonner started with gray out. So that's another having gray back brings Bonner down to, uh, just to, it, it bolsters your depth. It's a great way of looking at it. Um, but I see, I'm, I'm, I'm weary. I'm, I'm nervous to doubt Angel Reese's motor. And they, I just think like, can she be, can they wear her down? Like if Nas Hillman is already having some struggles to finish around the basket, that's only going to get harder in a longer series against the same team. The spurt goes back to the whole, and we've been going kind of in circles about a lot of this stuff, but, um, it really is a chess match with these two coaches. Um, but Natalie's got a little bit more to throw at them as far as just different looks, different players to throw at it. So as a big theme, as a, as a, as a. Sort of a, uh, a declarative sentence by you. That's a good way. Look at the series. The longer the series goes, I don't. I don't see why, I don't disagree with you. That's probably the right way of looking at it before the thing starts. Of course, if they go down 0-2, like, that's not good. No, it doesn't really matter, yeah. Yeah, right, and they, and sorry, I should know, like, Golden State is home court, right? Yeah, yeah. Yes, they did, right, because they were the two seed. Okay, very good, yes. So, yeah, yeah, that's, yeah. I don't disagree. Yeah, they're two interesting coaches, right? Like, both in their second year, both, like, very, very heavy in the analytics space as well. They both take a lot of threes. They both want to get offensive rebounds. It's going to be interesting, like, whose style can actually win, like, the battle of imposition, like, who actually executes it. And I think I come back to your point of, like, do we really want to bet against Angel Reese in this moment? Like, I think, I think I keep, I keep kind of just circling around the idea that Atlanta's probably going to end up winning this series. Do you have a prediction? No, I don't. I hate predictions. I hate that. You know why? Because they're just not, oh, Brendan Glasheen said this. I just don't. No, I know. I'm not, I don't, well, I don't have, I'll do what Tom Brady did to my Patriots before the Seattle Super Bowl. I don't have a dog in the fight. I am, I've always been a, I want to, I just want a great series. I think it's that, I think it's that close and that good of a matchup. Like, last year, ahead of the Phoenix series, I thought Phoenix would, all four of those games, even in a suite, were like tractor pull, edgier seat, most of them, if I'm not mistaken. They were all coming down to the last five minutes or so. Until Thomas, I think Thomas got hurt in game three or four, Alyssa Thomas. I don't remember which one exactly. She got hurt in one of those games, if I'm not mistaken. It's going to be a dogfight, but it's going to be, I think, I think you're on it. I think whoever wins the battle of the glass and who can limit, the other team's offensive rebounding, because even if you don't, like second chance points matter on offensive rebounds, but even if you don't score on the second chance opportunities, it just wears your opponent down. Like, this is not, this is not football. Okay. Where your defense comes on and plays and then they get a takeaway or they get a three and out or whatever. And the whole new field goal, they come off the field. Like, like your five play both ends. So, maybe like time of possession is like another determining factor in the series. I mean, I think, I think so. Yeah, it was, I've been thinking about this. Which that time of possession kind of blends to rebounding and offensive rebounding. It does. It does. Well, I think like if we want to borrow from soccer, time of possession matters a great deal. Right? Natalie Nakasi is very much influenced by Joe Mazzulla. And Joe Mazzulla is very much influenced by soccer. And I think, look, it's something I've been thinking a lot with the rebounding battle. Right? And jujitsu and the town. It's something I think about with the rebounding battle because I've been thinking a lot about Angel Reason and like sort of like the weird sort of place that she has in our basketball imagination, which is sort of the same place that rebounding has. It's sort of this contradictory thing where it's the most important thing in the game is to have the ball, to get possession of the ball, to finish a defensive possession. But we also treat it like it's a great afterthought. As well, ultimately, you know what? You can't score the ball without possession. It won't be. That's what's so interesting about this. It's like the thing that we never actually like really like, we paid a lot of lip service. Oh, you got to get your rebounds. This is actually like this, this thing that like we don't think about a lot. Truly. We think a lot more about who's going to make the game winning shot. We don't really think about who's going to rebound it after Ricochet is off the rim. That's actually going to be the defining story of this series, which I think from tactically, it kind of forces us to pay attention to this thing that we don't actually always give the credit it deserves. Yeah, but there's so but there's layers to it, right? Like. Obviously, we're in the WNBA finals, so like everything's on the table. Everything's on the table. Everything's under a microscope, right? Like, obviously, if you're putting a game on, it's Saturday, it's two o'clock CBS and you're watching Indiana and Atlanta, like from a TV commentator standpoint, we're there to set up the game, set up the stars of the game and that's where that's a great thing for the league. You've got stars that folks want to come watch and that's all great. No one's thinking about no one's pulling up their phone and going, well, look at this. You know, it's plus six Atlanta on the glass. No one watches the game that way. I think in a finals and you're really sinking your teeth into it, you're watching everything. And really, we're highlighting rebounding in this series because these are two really good defensive basketball teams. So it's not the shiniest product. You're not going to get games. I don't think you're going to get unless it goes to overtime. You're not getting games in the 90s in the series. The two teams are too well. Well, I think talent for talent. I like Atlanta's talent. So Golden State will probably use that as fuel. They've used it as fuel all year. We're not the most talented team, but are they the most connected team? Atlanta might have something to say about that, too, as far as the connectivity. Now, I think Atlanta at their peak, you've hit on this offensively. Can Ryan Howard can go for 35? I don't think. Yeah, maybe I'm maybe I'm being just maybe I'm being this is shade to Gabby. I don't know. Can Gabby go get you 35? Just have a night like that. That's not her game to me. Veronica Burton can give you 20. Gabby can give you. Maybe she can give you 30. I don't know. I know Ryan Howard can step behind the line and hit seven threes in a game. I've watched it a lot. Now, has she done it in a WNBA finals? No. Has she done it in college? No. Has she done it in a rival? No. So Gabby's played in big games. Veronica's played in big games. Um, they've played in big games, obviously, this year, leading to this point. I realize that I just mean more of the body of work. So, yes, it's like we're hitting the we're hitting the hammer here on the or we're using the hammer to hit home on the point about. Rebounding, but it's going to be that I think because I don't see is what you say, Ryan shooting 35 percent overall in the series or in the playoffs. Yeah, around there. Yeah. And like, who? Who? Who? Who? Who knows? I mean, I think it's I'm actually I was actually kind of not a sigh of relief, but that's strong. But we'll go with it. It was a bit of a sigh of relief. Like, OK, great. Both teams ended their semifinals at the same time. So we don't get this whole like, well, they've had more time. Yeah. And no, they both ended their series the same night, eight days. Well, seven full days off for the finals. So that helps with Salon. Hopefully, I'm sorry. I should is Salon. Is there like no chance she plays in this? I don't. I haven't seen. She's not hurt. She's just on the bench. Like, she's just not playing. Adam Natalie decided to go a different direction. OK, I should have known that. Sorry. And then with Alicia, I think that time helps. Yeah. But who knows? My point is with her specifically, who knows how long that's going to take to you? You don't have time to like work. Yeah. Yeah. These are what I love about the W. The 40 minute, 10 minute quarter thing is just the room for error is this. It is so small. It is so, so small. I'm glad. I'm really happy too for Jordan Canada. I'm glad you've said that. Like, to me, health is just, that's the key for her to unlock a lot of it. But she's another one too. Like, if we're going to throw, if we're going to mention the development aspect and I, development, development sounds to me like a, I think development works when you've been in the league like three, from one to five years. It might just be fit, fit where you land, how you're used. How you're valued. That is so, how you're valued, right? That is so important in professional sports. I guess now in college, the way they, the way the portal works and you can kind of pick and choose and coaches can go and pick and choose. Like, it is so, so important. I use this example a lot like with football. If you're a quarterback, where you land a lot of times matters. It determines your fate. And that sounds so strong and blindsided, but it's not. Like, how can you not have your, I know this is a basketball podcast, but just watch like guys like the Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, even Daniel Jones. Like these guys were like, ah, they're done. They got no role. Like, what do you know? Like, they've been in the league now seven, eight years. This guy goes to Seattle. That guy goes to Indianapolis. He lands in Tampa. It's like, oh, they can actually play. Like, they may have always been able to play. Just, yeah, they maybe needed time individually to grow and also find the right people around them. It's, you can use that for a lot of players in this series. I'm not going to say it with Angel. She's in her third year in the league, for crying out loud. Like, yeah, pump the brakes. Like, she's still, but like, Kayla Thornton, Jordan Canada. I think Canada, again, health at the forefront, but Jordan Canada playing with other great wings who can shoot and hit shots and run and keep up with her, which is not easy to do and have a rim running presence of an Angel Reese and a Naz Hillman. Yeah, completely. I mean, look, like you look at up and down the Golden State roster, right? Like, Kia Stokes barely played last year. She's a huge part of what they do. Kayla Charles cut multiple times last year. huge part of what the Valkyries do. Kayla Thornton, we talked about. Caitlin Chen, a young But, you know, Princeton transfer to UConn, third round pick, probably like four years ago, didn't think she was a WNBA player. Another person that was cut by the Valkyries even multiple times. Right. Like I think and I think a lot of that comes down to like Natalie herself. Right. Like I think there's somebody who also was not supposed to be in any of the rooms that she's in. I do think that allows her to kind of see potential in people that other people might overlook. Right. Like five, one and a half UCLA walk on first Asian-American coach in pro sports domestic history. Right. Like someone who built her like she's kind of built this team in her own own image. Right. Like she's they're ultra competitive. They're underdogs. They have so much heart. What they lack in like sort of like sheer just like jumping off the page talent like they make up for an IQ and work ethic. And they. Also like really galvanized around that identity, too. It's sort of like it has become their sort of clarion call to your point. Right. Like they have used a lot of things for motivation this year. The fact that they're going up against a quote unquote more talented team that just gives them that's just par for the course for them. They're always just going up on paper, at least against a team that's more talented. But they do somehow, you know, they find themselves to. To the two of their last thing, two final thoughts and just individual. On their on their roster goal and they'll go and shifting gear bouncing around, which is great. I love this. We're soaking it all. You know, we're kind of bringing out the T-shirt, bringing out the towel here on this whole thing. But I'll start with Kyla. Charles was a second round pick of the Connecticut Sun in 2020. So I covered her briefly in 21. But imagine that team. The way they were. I'm just using Kyla as an example. Really good player at Maryland. Second round pick again. Connecticut's looking at it like we have a contending team out of, you know, we they went to the finals in 19, the bubble. They take out the L.A. Sparks out. Yeah. Chelsea Gray and Candace Parker. Right. One of those series. I think it was one of the early series in the bubble. They come up. They sign. But they signed to one of honor in the 20 ahead of the 2020 season. So that team has a very clear like we need to build it from the top. We're going to try and basically it's scratch tickets in the second to fill out. The bottom of the roster. There's no room for Kyla Charles really to find a role on that team. Yeah. Now, I say that Dijon a Carrington found a way in 21 for that Sun team. She might be the best player of that 21 that 2021 draft. She's been really impactful player on some really good teams. Their point being is. It's easy to say this. Now, Kyla Charles never really had a chance. She never really had a shot. Where that team was at that point in their core expectation. You're not going to really ever get a chance. And then the last one. And I'm proud of this because I think if I'm not mistaken, I heard whoever was doing the last series. I think it was USA or maybe it was Ryan and Rebecca on ESPN. I can't remember who had series one of the Golden State series. Maybe it was Golden State, Dallas, whatever. Veronica Burton. We had Golden State at Mohegan in August, I believe. And I asked Natalie, like, hey, when. And I know Veronica has been there now two years. But I said, when you watched her play, because it's the sunset year, blah, blah, blah. Veronica was coming back last time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. From Newcastle. You got to play the hits. Yeah, right. Well, and she's a hit for them. And I wanted. It's important from our. Lens as the sun broadcast. For sure. Twenty twenty four. They add her in June. She got cut by Dallas. And if I'm not mistaken, she got cut in camp. So Veronica didn't have a home. A WNBA home for like two months. That's why her sister posted her in the gym. I just work with Taylor. She's great. Does Celtic stuff for NBC Sports Boston. She's great. They're in the gym in Newton together. Like getting reps in. She's like rebounding for they're going through. Because Kayla played at Lehigh. Great family. The Burton family. They're great. I grew up watching Veronica's dad, Steve, on TV on Channel four in Boston. They do Patriots pre post. Steve's a legend here. So it's great family. Great values. Great. Tough. You know, they've got great pedigree and nothing's been given to them at all. So Veronica had to kind of dig deep. But. Credit to Jen Rizzotti and Stephanie White at the time. They identified Veronica as someone who maybe could come in and like give them something at the point guard spot. Because in that 24 team, I think Ty Harris was hurt or Ty Harris or was it Heideman? Someone got banged. No one was out for the year, but they just needed another another piece. And Veronica in her span. This is kind of my point. Like in her very low use. She found that like tiny window of opportunity. Just being a pain. Yeah. Yeah. But defensively in Connecticut, it's been a big defensive theme team. So I say. So here we are. Twenty twenty six. We go two years later. And now you're looking back at it. You're like, oh, shoot. Connecticut. Maybe they should have protected Veronica Burton. But we don't find out about what Veronica Burton can be in a role as she is in Golden State. And now they're attached at the hip. Natalie said, I just watched her play. And I'm like. Who wouldn't want this player in their team? Yeah. Now, offensively has come really molded into a different role. A different player. And when I say different, just we've unlocked more of Veronica Burton. But that's that's kind of what we're talking about. As you started this podcast about player development and getting having a program, having a plan. It's gone really, really well for Golden State. So it sucks because even if they don't win the championship, they're in a great place. It's probably more important for Atlanta because of their window. And we're learning with this new CBA. You can't pay everybody. You're going to have decisions to make. Like they paid Bree Jones the max this year to go to fit this current team. They gave a they gave a they gave Duana's on a one year. I don't know who knows what Duana's future. But Duana was assigned a signing at the end of August. Right. So that's not that's not even that's not even worthy of being honest. But they've got some choices to make as far as how this fills out, especially when. Well, honestly, the. The funny thing about Atlanta and this is just like a feather in the cap of Dan Padova is they have one of the prettiest cap shoots I've ever seen, like even with them managing to retain everybody and they'll obviously have to pay Angel Reese as long as the cap goes up to about like seven and a half million, which I think is very conservative. They're going to be able to bring everybody back and then we'll see what happens with Bonner. But they're really they're not. They're not going to have to give up anybody. And the thing is, if they do their contracts, they have a lot of tradable contracts and they have picks as well. Like they're very, very flexible. Number one, prettiest cap sheets is that's. I know. And that was a great line. Number two, I'm sure there are people that will listen to this and say, why the hell are they talking about the freaking offseason when it's the. Well, this is the problem when you have eight days before the final starts. Now you're just thinking about everything. But it's really a tip of the cap. Right. Of to where these teams are. And you're right. I what I what I mean is I. Right. They have a window, though, before they have to pay Angel is all I was trying to get at. Like, so, yes, in the next year or two, she'll make she'll make all WNBA. So they're going to have to pay her right away. That's kind of my point, though. It's just that you're going to have another decision to make because all I was getting. OK, gotcha. Yeah. So, yeah, here I am. I'm going into the crystal ball now. Well, yeah, I get it because there is another world in which if they didn't have to pay Angel, they could have they were on, honestly. In such a good spot that, like, they could have hypothetically even tried to bring in another Max player. But they are going to be able to bring in like a pretty like probably a pretty strong free agent if they want to. Like more in the role player variety. But, yeah, like they're. Yeah, it's kind of amazing. Like everybody because everybody else is feeling that crunch, but they're not. I give them I give I'll never in most cases, I'll never be critical of a team or a franchise that's willing to take a swing like like Dallas. Took a swing on Atlanta Smith and it's year one and they're trying to rebuild it there in Dallas. Like, so, OK, you throw a big deal at Atlanta Smith, but here comes Jessica Shepard when Atlanta wasn't right and they were still trying to figure out their stuff. And Jessica Shepard blossoms into us into the most improved player. And really, if the league wasn't so good and so deep, maybe lands on an all WNBA team in the near future. Even Toronto throwing, you know, they want to bring in two stars. Right. So they handled their expansion very. Yeah, we're going to attract two free agents in Mabry and Sykes out the gate. I know I'll never in most cases in the short term, I won't get on teams. Now, if you take a swing and you give it time, you have to give it time. And that's another thing. I'm sure a big theme of what fans are thinking about continuity in pro sports. This is it. These are two teams in this finals that have their mostly. I mean, Gabby, I know is new to this team in Golden State, but Gabby's. Just been an addition to what they do. She hasn't changed what they've done now. She has in the sense that she will give them a presence at the end of the. these games and can go get a hoop um but she's added to what their their culture is it hasn't really changed what they want to be and who they are at the current moment um it's a long way of me saying this finals will be great the parody in the league is great um it should open eyes though around the league like hey you know well a you got to be able to defend uh becky hammond said it right after the elimination game like look if you're not a top three or four defense at least you're not going to win and you know i haven't i haven't i didn't watch any of the exit interview or if there was anything else she added to that but you could kind of tell right off well stewie said the same thing stewie said the exact same thing yeah and like if you don't if you don't if you're not even and that's not it's not all obviously effort matters these are professionals like duh you're gonna have effort but if you're not on the same page there then you're not gonna you're not gonna be there at the end and that's why these two teams are um and i don't i'm not i don't have a prediction i don't know i i could see it i could see it going either way i mean the easy answer is well the team with home court um has a really good home court and they're really really tough to beat there they went three and oh against them in the regular season series i watched the game i think it was the fourth of july weekend um you talked about how the atlanta game the way they finished against golden state well if you watch some of those there was one of those games i think it was in atlanta at the end and how poised and just golden state almost because they play in such a ruckus environment at home they don't get rattled on the road they like they don't like they're not yeah they're almost like like granted like obviously like their fans at home are rooting for the most part are rooting for them um they almost that helps them when they go on the road because like oh we we play a we play a chase center we play like what we're we always actually have to call our plays extremely loud okay thank you that's what that was never mind the rah-rah you know they don't like no not only exactly right how to communicate when it's loud like that's and atlanta now granted atlanta's arena like that which is by the way that's outstanding news they were able to work that out get games three and four at the at state farm but like yeah like it's loud as shit at gateway i've been there like when it's packed right it's a small i mean i did g league games main i know very different but like they pack 3 000 people the main celtics sell out um it's great but it's like a high school peach jam kind of feel to it um so we can get loud in there so yeah it's a different kind of adjustment it's not quite what is it 18 000 that go to uh that go to state uh chase dinner yeah so yeah it's nothing they're not used to and like look credit to atlanta right they went to barclays and they've won games in there all year long so um i think though yeah golden like it's exactly it like they they know how to stay on the same page even when it's whether the crowd's for them or against yeah it's kind of like a you're kind of in a i'm thinking like an atlanta in six or golden state in seven just based on based on the depth in the home court aspect of it um it is a very difficult series to predict i think uh it's going to be very interesting to see what happens when it's like they're everything that they kind of do to get advantages flattens out a little bit and it's just kind of player versus player i think but i do think it's going to make it's going to be cinematic yeah and you can't ignore i'm sure of it to to kind of circle back one last time on this i think it just i think you can't i think you can't if you're if you're calling it straight i think you said this you can't ignore that golden state can go nine and when i when i when i say that when i say they can go nine or ten i mean over the course of a series they might only play seven one night or or eight rather but you can throw someone into the fire at any point atlanta's got a kind of gut like seven or eight and and that's a based on what we've seen over the course of the season and this postseason that's what they've got for and it's trust me it's plenty i mean if it's all if it all goes well an angel stays out of foul trouble um and nas for that and that's what they've got for that matter um but golden state at any point well one thing i love about smesco though is um like he's so analytically in tune right and there he's kind of crunched the numbers on this and basically like you you lose more than you gain when you sit your stars because they're in foul trouble so he doesn't sit them when they're in foul trouble i noticed that i've noticed that and it's worked out for them it's worked out really well i mean at this point i at this point in the year i i get it like again the play 40 minutes in the margin of error in these games is it's at its peak now so um that's fair that's a fair point um but and to to be and that's a credit to angel and nas they've both demonstrated that you can still be impactful and play with force and an edge with foul trouble but when you play a really good best defensive team in the league what does that look like yeah yeah i'm not mistaken yeah they they went golden state won the season series 3-0 but duana wasn't if duana is going to play at the level she's played at for them and i when they made the move i'm like well that gives them another i i didn't realize again the day the move was announced i said well that can't be good news about brie jones that was my first thought because they i don't think they're doing that if brie jones is there um but duana gives duana is going to be huge in this series from a rebounding standpoint as well because she's a bigger guard wing that can put a body on some of golden state's wings even if even if she doesn't get the offensive rebound it puts nas hillman and angel reese in a position to uh clean up the defensive glass yeah duana that's where duana to me um and obviously you know if they get down to the end of the game hits a couple three throw like yeah but duana duana bonner doesn't have to score in this series to be important no no not at all so not at all yeah alicia i think is also going to be really important from a rebounding perspective as well i mean everybody like it is we've said it on ad nauseum but that is the story of this series it is it is rebounding like that is that is all i come down to especially al and i want you know having covered unrivaled this the last two years but this past year like that missed i look at that missed team how in the world did they get um they were able to get alicia and veronica and veronica and veronica and veronica like veronica kind of had her coming out party i felt like at unrivaled um the first year in golden state was superb don't get me wrong and even arique like just um yeah i'm very happy for arique and yeah how she's kind of channeled another level of how um she anyway just that team like it's no surprise that two of their players are in the finals on the other side of each other um but that that that's kind of what i'm getting at like i think alicia gray will be burton yeah where where's yeah yeah and that's no knock at jordan canada just i think you need a bigger body to put on to put on burton to because she'll do that um yeah that's a great way of looking at it like that's another thing if i said earlier that even like how long is it going to take for alicia to kind of navigate her way to get back well you can do stuff like that to be more than helpful yeah for sure you can hide her on chachi different times too chachi's a good one yeah yeah um okay you're not going to make a prediction which is fine i i personally don't know why is that not enough i can't say it's gonna be a really good series and it's probably okay no it's fine like i said it's fine you don't have to make a prediction i was just gonna ask you if there's anything you wanted to plug before i let you go anything i want to plug um yeah hmm well college basketball starting soon that's fun um i'll be doing some yukon well mostly big east men's and women's um i'll be i have one of the games i'm going to be playing in the future i'm doing is i'm excited about this i've never done a um south carolina game i will do south carolina providence this year um that's in providence part of their scheduled i think home and home or whatever that they whatever i think two years ago or last year and then the other game i'm doing is in november november 24th is ucla and st john's that is the game prior to south carolina yukon at the mohegan basketball so i'm gonna i'm certainly sticking around uh but yeah i'll be at the mohegan again so they're still getting this i still the badge you're gonna be there yeah i'm not like the uh who was it was it sydney colson when the aces had that video a few years ago or the guy the guy from the jets he tries to scan the car yeah yeah doesn't work yeah my well technically i don't have a key card anymore but they still they still like they're gonna let you in the building yeah so i got that coming up and then yeah unrivaled season three unrivaled season three i'm back on board which i'm excited about um taking the show on the road and it's been really cool to be a part of it's a very uh that's actually something i should mention too on the pod before we go um here you want a prediction this is a prediction that already happened but when we were on the unrivaled bus um big mama which this is actually kind of funny because r.i.p big mama all right they're some of the minds in that office and i'm wow they are sharp but they are freaking funny yeah they are gosh um anyways we're on the bus we're in boston They asked me to do it. I'm like, okay. I really didn't get it at first. I'm like, what are we doing? So I see a staff and Veronica and I did the little commercial thing. And we were, it took us, because she's got, you know, she's got a broadcasting family. So she was great. She was like, we were in and out of there in a half hour. Did it, get in, get out. It was a FIBA break. So Veronica wants to like go enjoy a break. So we both, and I'm like, I got to go do the World Cup. I'm like, we got a day. Let's do it. Knock it out. We'll go. But I said to Veronica, I said, I said, I hope you know. I'm sure you've heard this. I'm like, you guys are really freaking good. And you're probably going to be there at the end. And that wasn't that bold in the sense that it's, yeah, no kidding. I mean, it was, it kind of was. It was the middle of, well, early September, right? Or end of August. And I said, you guys are really. It was looking like the Minnesota Lynx were. Well, I, listen, like, I know Connecticut had a bad year. Okay. Like from a wins loss standpoint, they got a little core. They're going to Houston, all that. But like when Minnesota came in and played that game on Sunday against them, I think Minnesota had just lost to, Minnesota had lost three in a row, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, right before. They lost to the Liberty on Friday. And Kayla Thornton, I think the next game after Connecticut, or maybe it was that game that I can't remember, but she kind of called the team out a little bit. Like, hey, like, what are we up to? Like, what's going on? What's going on here, guys? Like, and she said it to the media. Like, okay, that's another layer. If you're going to do it in that setting, then you're not keeping that in the locker room. Okay. They just didn't look sharp. They just, they didn't. And I don't know, maybe the break didn't help them because Fee went and played in World Cup, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, I, Minnesota didn't. And like, I know the easy one to point out is the Indiana game. They got blown out at home and then they went into Indy, won the game and Golden State lost to Portland. Um, which ended up giving Minnesota the one seat. But I said to Veronica, just going back, I just said to her, hey, like, you guys are really fricking good. I'm really happy for you. I'm proud of you just watching your growth. But like, if you guys, as long as you guys keep that, like, you're going to be, and like, who the hell am I? But I'm just, she's like, I appreciate that. I'm like, no, like, I'm serious. Like, you guys are that, you're not just, you're not just like, and I, I'm, I go back and forth. Like, no, like, and I love you. I love you. I mean, Gabby Williams, but like, no one thought we'd be here. Like that whole thing to me in sport is kind of like, all right. Like there are people that like you guys and think you're really good. So if you, if you're, that's a knock at like the talking heads. Fine. If that's like a knock at the overarching going into the season, no one thought we'd be here. True. Fair. But like people's opinions change. If you watch the games, oh, they're not just like, yeah. Playoff team. Well, we got to, somebody, somebody tell Gabby, look, Brendan Glashine thought you were going to be here. Yeah. There was one person. I mean, did I say that in May? No, but I, I'm sorry. I'm a victim of the score. I watched the games. I put the games on. I go, oh, like they're, she gives them something. I hand up. I thought they should have. Well, you change, you change your opinion based on new information. Yeah. Opinions of all. What a thought. That's life too. Nevermind sport. Hand up. Yeah. I thought they should have taken a look at plum. Cause like what? Maybe I'm a sucker. Like plum could go give them 18 and give them another weapon to kind of play off of Gabby and finish these games. And the way she can kind of wiggle in traffic and give them a finisher around the rim. Maybe I get there's a reason probably why they didn't want to do it. I get it, but I'm like, I, well, I think they like you, they felt good about what they had. I don't think. And I think that they have a very serious consistency in a, in a devotion to their, their vision as well as they aren't going to bring anybody in that could potentially get beat off the dribble. For example, I understood both sides. Like, like my, my, my pure thought around it was like I said earlier about take a swing, take a swing. And like, that would have felt like a goal for a move, but they felt obviously that maybe, well, a who knows what the draft capital would have been. Yeah. Or what the, yeah. What the package would have been, but it would have maybe not just, I think disrupted strong Kelsey palms played on winning basketball teams. Like I think she would have been about, right. Things, but what did it have changed or altered how they want to play. And so again, I mean, well, ultimately she was hurt though. So, so they would have had to give up draft capital, probably a player or two that could, that is probably contributing for them right now for someone who, you know, had to sit. But I will say, I never, what I never said was they need her. I just, I just would have been, I would have, I would think I'm guessing, I think they would have probably that it made at least made a call, but anyway, yeah. One way of me saying to plug on rival season three, Veronica Burton on the bus, I told her, Hey, you guys are really fricking good. I think you're going to be there at the end. And they're in the end. Now that being at the end, I didn't say they're going to win the championship. I stayed away from that. Cause I don't want to be like, you guys are going to win the whole thing. And it would have sounded like I was like kissing ass. And I don't want to come off. So you use a line. There's a line. And it was, you're going to make the finals, but yeah, no prediction. Well, cause I just think like, I don't know. You can do that stuff. I don't know. I don't need to predict. Well, I mean, like when you call games too, I don't go, I don't like to predict. I'm not there for that. I'm there to see a great game. It's a different thing. It's a different job. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Like I'm not on the game day desk, you know, come on. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense. I'm excited. I mean, this is going to be a great, it's going to be a great series. And I think it's, I'm really happy for the league. And this is going to be a really like, um, if we thought last year's free agency with how, well, free agency started so late last year because, because of the CBA negotiation now with a longer free, a more, a more normal schedule. Um, there's some really, really big names out there. Um, I think this year opened a lot of folks eyes from the basketball folks, from the fan stamp. That's in a good way. Um, a lot of different ways to think about team building and, um, yeah, it's going to be good. Absolutely. The ripple effect. The effects are going to be very interesting. I didn't think it's only beginning. It's true. Um, thank you so much for making the time. And I appreciate you. Hey, thanks for having me on. This was fun. It's always fun. Get into the app with you. I feel like we just like, we just bounce off of each other. Um, and it's always a good time. I appreciate the way you think about the game and thank you to Stefan Anderson always for producing. He is grinding so hard for us as we get into this final stretch. Um, and he's the best. So we appreciate him. Thank you. Thank y'all for listening. And we will be back after game one. This episode is brought to you by state farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground or draw up something. Nobody sees coming. 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