I hate my little precious fruit loop. How are you? Precious fruit loop, like the breakfast. Breakfast cereal, American breakfast cereal. What do you think of that? Yeah, I don't love it. I don't love it. It doesn't feel personal. It doesn't feel back creative. You've gone with foods before. Well, you know what is personal. I know that you love cheese. Is that right? Cheese, cheese, cheese. Do I love cheese? God, David, I have I have I have night cheeses every night. I don't know. I can't stop it. I want to actually lose a little bit of weight, but I can't stop eating my night cheeses. I about 10 pm every night. I get the cheese out of my fridge and I start chopping it up. I had maybe eight slices of cheese last night. And you know what? I'm not sure that I dream. Like everyone says they get cheese dreams. I think that maybe it's just incorporating itself into my consciousness. Like I'm sort of living in a constant state of cheese hallucination. Now, so was your question whether I like cheese? If anything, a little too much. Well, you're going to be delighted to know that the episode today is about cheeseheads. Do you know what a cheesehead is? Yeah. Yeah. It's a guy that chees on his head. Yeah, partly true. Partly true. Does it conjure up any other images? Oh, wait. The green bay packers, right? So they're the cheeseheads, right? And they're in Wisconsin. And they, why is this? What is America? So it's a football team, but it's somehow really interlinked with the cheese world. And they all go with cheese on their heads. So that's the thing in America. I tell you what, it's a unique place over there. You're doing some pretty wacky stuff, bringing down the global oil market for God knows what reason. For some reason, I know that the straight of four moves now, which is everything I've learned about that places against my will. So thanks for that. But also cheese. I'm David Ferrier in New Zealand, and accidentally marooned in America. And I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now when I first heard the term cheesehead, a lot of images came to mind, mainly just people with heads made of cheese. I've since come to learn that cheeseheads are what Hayden just said, supporters of the green bay packers. And has, by the fact, they love wearing cheap, foam hats. Americans also like to call people from Wisconsin cheeseheads, just in general, because it's a huge producer of dairy. So in this episode, I will investigate cheese by traveling to the capital of Wisconsin and the capital of cheese, Madison. And I go to a very important event, the world championship, cheese contest. It's a lot of cheese. So prepare as they say to cut the cheese. That means farting Rob. You'll like that because this is the cheesehead's episode. Cheese. Cheese. I have beef to pick with this topic in general. Okay. Cheeseheads. But yeah, cheese. I mean, I'm a cheese. I love cheese. I do too. I'm not, I mean, Hayden is a big fan of night cheese, which is just regular cheese, but eating at night. I know about night cheese. You know about night cheese, you patake. I do fartaken. What's your ritual? I mean, it's similar to his. Like there's, you open that for a night snack. Yeah. Is cube cheese. How many, say that cubes? What do you mean? Cubed. Either you buy it with the bowl and it's already cubed. Where you get a block and you drop it up in the cubes. I'm more doing the slice, slice guy. I will slice. Do you buy in like sandwich cheese? I'll have some of the cheese. What are you making sandwiches ever? No, I'll just eat the cheese on its own. So you're buying it sliced for sandwiches, but not to make sandwiches? I just like that particular flavor of cheese. I mean, that's not a flavor. Oh no, I'm talking about different things. So I'm talking about that horrific cheese that comes in little plastic wraps. Okay. Yeah. I like that craft. And I like slicing a bit of blue cheese or a bit of bree. And popping that in my mouth. Sometimes on a cracker. The thing I run into that's not great is I'm the only one in my house that likes cheese. Because I've got a lactose intolerant wife. Yeah. She can't have it. She loves cheese, but she can't have it. No. And both the boys have like a weird texture thing with cheese. I think I think cheese subconsciously planted this in their heads from a young age. Right. Which I've been I've been fighting it, but you haven't gotten around it. No, they both hate cheese so much. Even fake cheese. It's really. Well, Vinnie doesn't eat anything. He he like only eats snacks. So okay. They're still hope for him. Yeah. But Calvin like wonny vegan cheese on a pizza. Nothing. No cheese on pizza. So it's just you. Just me. Just you salt just a man alone eating cheese at the tabletop. Sometimes good though. No competition at all. I mean, do you have a favorite, um, particular favorite? I mean, I like a pepper jack cheese. I have already cheese. It's cheddar cheese. I mentioned earlier cheese cubes. Yeah. And I'm scared to say this, but I'm going to say anyway, I feel that not as big in New Zealand as they are in America. The cubes of cheese. Wait, it's just how you cut it. You get blocks of cheese. No, I've seen them and you can buy like an America. I've seen like big packets of free cheese. I mean, that may be the story you're talking about. It is, but it may be an American thing where like you can buy the watermelon. That's pre cut. And you can buy. Yeah, it's like you like preparing things. Yeah. Yeah. But normally I'll buy a block of cheese and I'll cut it into cubes. Okay. Which you could cut it into slices too. It's the same cheese. So it's literally just the preparation of the cheese. What shape it comes in, essentially. Yeah. I mean, it comes in like a big round thing. Normally that then they cut into that. Yeah. Wheels of cheese. Yeah. My god, I've never seen the size of the wheels that I see in today's episode. But you, I mean, this episode's not cheese. It's cheese has cheese hits. Which do you know what you've stepped in with this? Not really. Look, so the meat of this episode. I go to a cheese contest. The meat or the cheese. What? To understand that reference. Did I say meat? You said the meat of the episode, but we're talking about cheese. Oh, that was like a funny thing you just did. Yeah. So no, I'm talking about cheese. Although in Wisconsin, obviously cows and meat are also a big thing. But no, I go to a cheese contest. So the cheese hits thing is still a bit of a mystery beyond they love it in sport in Wisconsin. And they wear a big cheese hat. Yeah. So it's the Green Bay Packers. Yeah. Who are the rival team to the Chicago Bears? So there you enemy NFC North rival team. So I've got them. Yeah, I do not. You're beef. I hate. Yeah. A beef. Oh, my god. It's the football team I hate the most. It's cool that they wear big cheese hats. No, it's not. That's fun. No, it's not. It's like fun. I feel like sometimes Americans take their sport too seriously. Here's a team that just puts on a big silly hat and goes, Hey, we're having fun. It's all a bit silly. We can have a laugh. We don't take ourselves as seriously as those people in Chicago. And we can have a good time. Yeah. That's what it says to me. This episode also feels a little bit like a trap because I'm not normally very positive. No, you know, I'm trying to get you to be negative, but you never are. You're too happy. But you found the place. Have you been to medicine before, which is where this episode takes place? Yeah. I love medicine. Yeah, medicine is a cool medicine is beautiful. So any Milwaukee's cool green bay, the worst. Well, no, the worst football team. I mean, the problem is the bears until last season hadn't been good until 85. Okay. And the packers have been good a lot. Okay. So that, that always fuels the sports rivalry. Of course, because they're better than your team. Not right now, though. It's just fun. Just fun. Just to be clear, just to be clear, medicine. What's to our trip about medicine? Got to the airport and all the trinkets were lots of cows. Yeah. Lots of cheese. Do you get the relation cows of cheese? I learned. This is episode. We don't have cows or cheese in New Zealand, so I'm really learning a lot. And the thing that kind of jumped out of me, which is probably not surprising to everyone else, but a lot of like, we're here to get boozed like comical t-shirts. So it's very proud of their drinking culture and not just drinking, not just like we have crap here, but we like to get absolutely shut faced. Yeah. I mean, and that was interesting. Wisconsin and Chicago are, like, cousins. It feels like they have that. There's like a similarity between the two. Yeah. There's a very similar vibe. If you ever got sick of going back to Chicago, you could go to there instead. Probably.
Hopefully not. - You can see, you can see a game. - Why not do that? - Pop on a cheesy hat. - There is a lot of interesting stuff. Green Bay, I do know has an interesting backstory, so I'm just gonna, even though I dislike them as a team. - You're gonna be a big a man than that. - I know, Green Bay is not like a big city. It's not Chicago, it's not like New York. - It's a Bay. - So they were a meat packing town team. So the team began as a community effort sponsored by the Indian Packing Company, practicing adjacent to a meat packing plant. They're the smallest city in pro sports. - That's cute. - Population then was $3,000. - They're punching you off their weight? - Yes. Smaller than six other cities in Wisconsin. And instead, they got the football team. - They still today, they're the smallest majorly professional sport market in North America. And they're the only franchise that's owned and sustained by the fans. - I like that. - In 1922, they organized a public stock sale and raised enough capital to create the Green Bay football corporation, which enabled fans to purchase shares in the team. - I love this. - So the community owns the team. - This is so cool. - Green Bay Packer fans are die hard fans. - They literally own them. - Yes. - They've won the most championships of any NFL team. 13. - The more you talk about them, the more I think they're probably my team. - No, I don't say that. - I think they are. Like they're the underdog. They're tiny. The people own them. - They have chees on their head. - Sorry, I get it, David. - It's really good. Like it's really, really good. - If I didn't have the Chicago Bears, I would agree that it's a cool story behind the team to the timeline. - Instead, I had to deal with Brett Farve and Aaron Rodgers, and I mean, you know about Brett Farve, right? - No idea. - And you know about Aaron Rodgers? - No, I don't know who these people are. - They were two like dynasty quarterbacks. - Okay. - Aaron Rodgers went like, search controversial Aaron Rodgers. Look up some stuff on Aaron Rodgers. - Aaron Rodgers. - Highly polarized figure, due to several controversies. Sounds like he is an anti-vaxxer for a while. He claimed to be immunized, but it definitely wasn't vaccinated. Big into promoting various conspiracy theories. Has some different public feuds and strained team relationships. Does that all track? - Yeah. He sounds unpleasant. - Yeah. - An unpleasant individual. - Yeah, but I will say like, most players at that level are like Michael Jordan is not known for being like the nicest guy, same with Kobe Bryant. - What team is Aaron Rodgers with? - He was on the Green Bay Packers. - He was on the packers. - Yeah. That's why we're talking about that. - I thought I was hoping he was with Chicago. - And why would I bring up a, - I don't know, let me think. What else stood out to me? - This was all part of you took a trip to Wisconsin. - I took a trip to Wisconsin. We're gonna do a few episodes that are Wisconsin. She's had to be in the beginning. - And when you say a few, too. - I mean, too, including this one. - Yeah, it's gonna be two, it's gonna be two next week. - It's a small place, but I loved it. The only other thing I remember when I was in medicine is that I have been to Milwaukee before and of course that's where Jeffrey Dahmer is from. - Yes. - And he would, and that ties into the boozing culture 'cause he would pick up drunk people from gay bars and then kill them. - Yeah, there's a cool music venue called the Rave and Eagles Ballroom and Milwaukee. - Yeah. - That like a lot of bands. It's multiple venues in this big building. - Cool. - Where like multiple shows are going. I think there's at least three venues within the building. - So good for music. - But I think across the street is one of the hotels related to Dahmer. - Yeah, really a bleak story, but I kinda, I went on a walking tour around the different areas where he had done various naughty things and by naughty, I mean a lot of murder. Also, the guy from Happy Days is from - Every week. - Milwaukee and there is a fun statue there and I love the fun. It's a big part of my childhood, big part of Americana. - Okay, before we get to the cheese competition, what else? Madison, it's the Capitol. They've got a giant Capitol building. I sent you photos. I was in a hotel across from the state Capitol. - Yeah, we did a Patreon from there. - It was insane. - Yeah. - I looked at, I thought I'd like fucked up the flights and was in like DC or something. Can Americana knows how to do a Capitol building? - Well, this building was amazing. - We have since visited multiple Capitol buildings. - We have. - You visited Wisconsin. - I love Capitol buildings in Americana. - We get to a city here like where is the Capitol building? - Show me that building. - They're so, they're going over the top. - Yeah, they're amazing. - Madison also has one of 10 remaining free zoos in North America. - We don't love zoos. We love a free zoo. And I think that's pretty cool. - Chicago has a free zoo. (laughing) - Oh my God. - Lincoln Park. - Lincoln Park Zoo, named after your, your favorite band was named after you. - I do love Lincoln Park. They also have a Veterans Museum in Madison, which I went into, which was, it was just an interesting vibe. It was like a lot of like life-sized diaramas of different battles throughout America's history. I'm not laughing at that. I'm laughing at the fact that Rob's microphone just broke. And it was very, I just, I'm a big fan of a big diarama. And about deeply American, it was like battles through the ages. I would say worth a visit. - I mean, you remember the diaramas though in Chicago, right? - I don't remember either. - Went to the field museum and they had all those really cool ones. - Oh, yeah, there were some cool ones there. - And Colorado. - There were a lot of really cool. - Oh my God. - America, you do capital buildings well. And diaramas really well. - Be it, let's get into the world. Championship cheese contest. You can celebrate just the thought of all this cheese, Rob. So much cheese. - What a time to be alive. Getting to the world championship, cheese contest, how to beautiful Madison, Wisconsin. The first thing I noticed about Madison is that that state capital building is huge. To the point that when I woke up, I thought I'd gotten my trouble or messed up and it ended up in Washington instead. The second thing I noticed is that cheese is everywhere. It's unavoidable, stumbling out of my hotel. I pretty much fall into a cheese store immediately. My name is Will. I am a cheese monger here at Formationation, specifically the front of house. Lead, the hospitality lead, if you will. I sampled cheeses, I take care of those cheeses. I'm what's called a monger. And when we talk about mongers, I'm more than just like order takers, right? I have to know about the cheese. I have to be able to tell you the story. I have to take care of it, too, right? Like, we never let our cheeses sit for more than like six or seven days in that wrap. We always take it off, scrape it, and make sure it's all fresh and ready for you. Will has been working in this much-loved artisan cheese store for two and a half years. The store itself has been here for nearly two decades. So we're the cheese capital of the United States. We are literally across the street from the capital building of the capital of the, you know what I mean? Madison has, out of all the places I've lived, probably has the strongest community. Especially the cheese world, too. Cheese people are, they're really cool people. What are cheese people? What defines a cheese person? What do they like? I don't know. That's how my mama raised me, I guess, is how it goes, but cheese people, they're very humble. Sometimes they can be quiet, but they are wicked smart. I know for a fact, if I walked into a creamery right now, my head would be spinning. Like, I like to say I'm a storyteller. I know enough of the science to get by, right? But man, yeah, there's some smart people. Kind is one word I would use to describe Wisconsin cheese people. Keep hearing about the squeakiness of cheese being important. Can you explain that to me a little bit? What that represents? So with cheese curds specifically, that's what we think of when we think of squeaky cheese. It really is just like the freshness of that cheese. I think it has to do with the calcium on your teeth, actually, that rub against the proteins and the cheese. And that's what gives it that squeak. And usually it's going to be squeaky if you feel like that first one or two days. But if you ever get a bag of cheese curds, let's say they squeak on the front and they don't pop in the microwave, I'm not joking, less than two seconds. And it just brings back the moisture and you're good to go. With that important cheese info in my head, I sit off for the competition. It was a cold day in medicine. I had my jacket and gloves on. The convention center dwarfed by a large frozen lake manona looming behind it. The competition is the world's premier technical cheese batter and yogurt competition hosted here in Wisconsin for the last 69 years. I wasn't here for the battery yogurt. I was here for the cheese. And as I picked up my official media lanyard and entered the competition floor, I was surrounded by it. Hundreds of blocks of cheese. Thousands of blocks of cheese. I could see it. I could smell it. And soon I would consume it. I'm Grace Atherton. I'm the communications director for Wisconsin Cheesemakers Association, which hosts the World Championship Cheese Contest. Now we are currently in a sort of a large room with a lot of tables, a lot of cheese. I can smell the cheese in the air. So this is primarily a competition. It is primarily a competition. Although I will say it's the friendliest competition I personally have ever witnessed. There's so much camaraderie here. "So it's not getting feral, it's not getting back stabby, it's not getting angry." "We don't typically have. "
have, you know, intense bitter rivalries or anything like that. It's pretty friendly, pretty well-behaved around here. What you're looking at is tables of judges working in pairs to evaluate the 3,375 entries we have in this competition. And they are wearing kind of the industry standard, which is a white lab coat. To me, it looks like a room full of scientists all wearing different hats. The white hats are judges, the red hats sort of oversee the judges, and the tan hats are the bee team, volunteers making sure everything is running smoothly, as smooth as a smooth piece of cheese. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from grow therapy. Now it's spring right now, which means it's kind of like a spring cleaning kind of time. I love cleaning the house, makes me feel good, but you know what? You can also clean your brain, and that's where grow therapy comes in. 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You just pay per session and grow helps you find therapy on your time. Yeah. And if you haven't done therapy before, I started when I got to the United States and I have found it incredibly beneficial. Yeah. It's made you a much better human. Well played. Whatever challenges you're facing, grow therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans and sessions average about $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0, depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com/bird today to get started. That's growtherapy.com/bird. Growtherapy.com/bird, availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Support for Flatless Bird is bought to you by Bombas. Now the springtime Thorus finally here. Flows are blooming. Days are longer. We're saying yes to more plans and finally getting outside. We're running. We're walking. We're moving again. The perfect time to upgrade your everyday go-to's with Bombas. I've been getting back into Softball. Oh my God. You have you. Keep texting me about it. And the Bombas sport socks are truly a game changer. They're super comfortable in design with sport-specific tech for running, cycling, yoga, hiking. You name it. So it's perfect for Softball. They're cushioned exactly where I need it. They're sweat-wicking. They don't slide around, even if I'm sliding around. Oh, I like that. I can just focus on the game instead of constantly adjusting my socks. Yeah, and I've picked up some Bombas sandals they're made with this very super lightweight and waterproof EVA that's soft, but still supportive. They're super comfortable and perfect to toss on and go wherever I'm going. And this is controversial, but you're a sandals with socks guy. I am. It's something I've embraced. Bombas also makes more than just teas. They've got the best base layers you'll have around. They've got Bombas underwear and t-shirts, breathable, flexible, really soft. It's a full on upgrade from your usual basics. And for every item you purchase, an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing and security. One purchased, one donated with over 150 million donations and counting. Head over to bombas.com/bird and use Code Bird for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com/bird, Code Bird at checkout. Have noticed the temperature in here? It's quite cool. Is that to do with the cheese? It is, absolutely. When you've got this many dairy products in a room, you've got to keep it pretty cold. Yeah. Is the smell ever an issue when it comes to cheese? Because I smell a little bit of cheese now. It's pleasant. Does it become more overpowering as the day goes on? You know, it typically stays about what it is right now. You can smell in the room as you're here. It smells like there's a lot of cheese around. But like you said, it's not overpowering. It's not unpleasant. It's not only the judges who are evaluating categories like smear-ripened cheeses. If you've got a limberger class. Grace told me it was really important I talked to one of the most respected cheese judges here. A legend in these halls, a woman called Kathy, whose main job was with Whole Foods, a giant chain with 500 stores all over America, 100% owned by Amazon. How deeply American is that? Hi, everyone. I'm Kathy Strange and I am with Whole Foods Market. I am the ambassador of food culture. Cheese is a destination department. We have been a part of not only the American cheese movement, but artisan cheese production around the world for now over 40 years. So we're very excited to represent. We have the highest number of certified cheese professionals in the world in our stores. Now when I think of cheese, I tend to think Switzerland. I wondered how the US fitted into the world of cheese. We make all different styles of cheeses in the United States. And we have a rich history, even though our history isn't very long. But since the beginning, we've been making cheese and raising herds of animals and really honoring the land that the animals are a part of and truly reflective here in Wisconsin. But you know, cheese is for ingredients. And foreign ingredients have the opportunity to make everything you see in front of you, David. I'm deeply embarrassed now. What are the foreign ingredients and cheese? This is terrible. I don't know this. Obviously milk. So I've got that. Milk, culture, salt for preservative and enzymes to coagulate. What's your favorite cheese? You just have one cheese for the rest of your life. What are you picking? Well, it is quite like a child. Your favorite cheese today, and it's like whatever the best tasting cheese is. I have the opportunity today to taste around 70 cheeses and I'll have one at the end of the day. But every day, it's the different ones. So we're going into the spring. So I like fresh cheeses. She's sidestepped that one like a pro. And fair enough, she's not here to talk to me. She's here to judge. And there's a lot of cheese to judge over 3,000 different ones, 3,375 to be precise. How do you cleanse the palate between the tastings? It depends on the style of cheese. So really the more complex, you would have to think about cleansing more often. I use acidity, either of fruits, just to be not eating or ingesting so you get the sweetness. But just cleansing the tongue or plain saltine to take the better fats off. And of course, a lot of water. You've got to hydrate. To be clear, Cathy doesn't have to try all those 3,375 cheeses. She's one of many judges here. My name is Ben Smith. I work for a company called Hillmard Cheese and Hillmard, California, where actually one of the world's largest cheese manufacturers. We make a million and a half pounds of cheese every day at that one factory. Then we have a second factory that also does the same. And then we just built a new factory in Kansas that does about two thirds of that. It's mind-boggling. It is. Yeah. But the world eats a lot of cheese. We export a lot, but a lot stays domestic. We don't have our own brand in the marketplace either, though. So you can't find our name on a piece of cheese anywhere. We sell to other companies that then slice, cut, shred, whatever it is, or it goes to McDonald's Taco Bell. Those kind of places. So if you've had cheese in the US, you've had our cheese before. And what's your role here today? You're judging a certain type of cheese? Yes. So we're judging today. We're just judging one category and that's sharp cheddar. We define sharp cheddar as being aged between six and 12 months. So you're looking for very specific flavors in there. Age cheddar notes, savory notes, brothy notes, beefy, umami, those kind of flavors. We're wanting to avoid strong bitter flavors and things like that, any unclean, grassy flavors and things like that. And how many in that category are you judging? We've got just about 70 entries. What are the differences really in that? There's actually quite a wide range of differences in that. In the US alone, we have regional cheddar descriptors. We have West Coast cheddar, which is fruity and beefy. We have Wisconsin cheddar, Midwest cheddar, which is very acidic, strong acid flavor. And in the Northeast, you've got like cabbets or your Vermont cheddar that are almost sulfury. So even in the US, cheddar runs a wide gamut. But now this is the world's contest. So we've got cheddar from the UK. We've got cheddar from Ireland. We've got cheddar from Germany. Those have their own flavor profiles. So we've got a wide range of flavors to play with here and to expect. So it's even though it is 70 entries in one category, it's a wide category. With so much cheese, I ask him if he's ever a wrong way to eat cheese. No, because cheese is personal. It's whatever you like. So like cheese on apple pie. That's an American thing that is very strange. It's slice of cheddar cheese melted on top of your hard apple pie. Holy shit, that works. Oh my god. It blows your mind. Trust me. Try it. It's really good. As we've been talking, I've been holding a plate of four shows.
graphs are different cheese or what is happening here. - So we call these plugs. So we have a trier that's our tool that extracts the plug from the block. - Being shows me how he judges by trying these little cheese shafts, one by one. - You're looking for that savory meaty brothy right through the middle, right? And it's not finishing bitter. It's cleaning up. I'm not getting off notes or anything like that. - The aftertaste is part of it as well. - Certainly. - Yeah, everything that you're gonna experience as you eat the cheese, that's what we're judging on here. - I quickly learned that I'd probably be a bad judge. All the cheese being hands me, I enjoy. I forget what the previous cheese tasted like. Overcome by the current cheese being swirled around in my gob. - So now try the white one there, try that. - Everything I put in my mouth. I'm like, this is delicious. - See, to me, this one I like the least. This is bitter. I'm getting off notes right up front. It's not cleaning up, it's lingering. These have already been scored and entered. So, your comments won't influence our integrity. - I step away from the judges and go and meet one of the B team 10 hats I'd heard about. Steve, he's one of the elder statesmen of cheese here. And earlier, I'd watched him and a few other guys cutting these giant wheels of cheese. Like so giant, you couldn't lift them on your own. - The art of cutting a wheel of Swiss straight is a challenge for all of us. So it's kind of a little competition. Besides judging, we have our own little competition on. Who can cut the straight as Swiss cheese? - I was here at 5.30 and we unload the trucks and get everything staged in the back. There's a lot to this. - For Steve, cheese isn't just something he likes or loves, it's his entire reality. If anyone is a pure cheesehead, it's this man. - No, I was born in it. I was probably back in the factory 25, 30 hours after I was born, you know. So I've been in cheese factory my whole life, grew up in it. Went to school. My dad wanted me to come back and buy in the business. So I've been in it ever since. - Generations of cheese hits, including his daughter, Shaya, who's also here with them. - There's no escaping. - No, there's no escaping it. Whatsoever. (laughing) I tried once, came back. It is never ending. My dad's always creating something new. He always has big ideas. Noting that this is the world cheese champs, I wonder how the U.S. will fare. - Well, we got a lot of talented cheese makers. There are certain cheeses that are a little tougher to make here in the States. But competitively wise, we'll be right there with everybody, you know, depending on the cheesy Italians, you know, they're hard to compete. The Swiss here and the Swiss cheese, they're hard to compete with. The Emanthaler, you know, is a European cheese, not a lot of it made here in the U.S. But there's such a broad spectrum of cheese here. Wisconsin, have the best cheese in America, Jerican? - Yes, absolutely. It comes down to milk and it comes down to water and it comes down to the environment. - Well, the Midwest, you know, we have the most limestone, we have the best water. We have the climate change, of course, but, you know, in the summertime, the crops are great, you know, it's just a good area for dairy. And that, you know, in its Wisconsin, people are pretty much down to earth. I mean, I travel around a little bit, it's that way everywhere, but Wisconsin, you know, people come here, they come here for the cheese and they come here because of us, I guess. - Steve tells me about a three-year-long master cheese maker program at the local university that churns out cheese champions. - There's so much technical things going on in the cheese industry and all cultures, everything. And you gotta study and you gotta learn them, what they do, how they affect cheese, what creates the best flavor. Cheese making is not just time and material, it's a passion. So that's what makes a good cheese maker, it's a passion. If you don't have the passion, your cheese will be mediocre. - Do you ever get sick of cheese? - I eat cheese every day. I always eat a little cheese for lunch. It's probably not the best for me, but I do it anyway. And I enjoy it, I enjoy it. - Each cheese every day is the kind of advice I can get behind. And I did eat a lot of cheese over the weekend. As I ate, judges judged. It was quite dedicated work. Sometimes I stopped and just stared at them as they carefully placed these precious cheeses in their mouths and chewed. As for the big winners, the big three, the world champs were from the Netherlands and got a score of 98.68, winning for a cheese called the Beemster Royale Grand Cru. The first runner-up was from Switzerland with 98.45, and the second runner-up also from Switzerland, 98.41. I had a wonderful day, and I learned that I'll probably die without ever tasting all the cheese produced on planet Earth. But I can try. I can try. And I got a pretty good start at Madison, Wisconsin. Home of the cheesehead. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Shopify. Now, if you're starting your own business, it can be really intimidating and really lonely thanks to all the hats you suddenly have to wear when you have no idea what the heck you're doing. - Yeah, you got to put on a cheesehead, you got to put on-- - Oh, good reference. - There's a lot to figure out when you're starting a business, and finding the right tool not only helps you out, but it also simplifies everything, and that can be such a game changer. For millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. - If you don't know already, Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, and 10% of all e-commerce here in the United States. - Household names like Mama Fuku, which I love, David Chang. - To brands just getting started, they have their own design studio with hundreds of ready-to-use templates, which I like a lot coming from the web design space. They make it really easy to build a beautiful online store that matches your brand style no matter what it is. - And if you get stuck, Shopify is always around to share advice with their award-winning 24/7 customer support. So if you're like me, you don't understand a lot of the stuff they are there to help. So tackle all those important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics to more, no need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need everything is in one place with Shopify. - So start your business today with the industry's best business partner Shopify and start hearing, sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com/Bird. - Go to Shopify.com/Bird. That's Shopify.com/Bird. (bell dings) (upbeat music) - Got the football. - It's a sport that a-- - I am successful. - Americans love throwing footballs to each other, don't they? Do you want to try? - Yeah, it was like the room. - Yeah. - I've got a fluffy football here that I got from Ontario. Hi, from the prom episode of Flay the Spirit. - Homecoming. - Prom, homecoming, same thing. - Homecoming, not the same thing. (laughs) - Yeah, what a creepier if you went to a prom. - What did you think of all that cheese? - I mean, it made me want to have banned at that competition. - Yeah, it was pretty amazing. - How much cheese did you end up trying? - I had, so in the middle of the room, they had these four giant tables that were just full of different cheeses, and I would just wander over and eat them. - And this is open to the public? - Yeah, so they had a day where the public could come in and watch the judges see what was going on. It was actually really cool. There's this giant competition and you could just come and watch. - And eat cheese though? - And eat cheese. - 'Cause that's a lot of cheese. - Oh, no, this room was so-- - So you're like around the corner of the room, around the sides, you had all the judges very seriously, like fenced off from the public doing that thing. - Yeah. - Middle of the room, the public could come in and have a little bite, so there'd be a little, what do you call them, a little toothpick? - But does it mean everyone? - Yeah, so you'd get your fresh toothpick, your jab it into a little cube of cheese. You'd eat it? - But you've seen people using their hands and grabbing them and seeing anyone do that. - There's a grocery store too. Like people, I gotta say the people, it wasn't like the feralness of LA. People in medicine are like very, they care about each other. They're very worried about like touching other people's food. And so everyone is following the rules. It was a beautiful thing. - Did you get to try any of the winning cheeses? - No, no. I didn't. - You mentioned Switzerland. - Yeah. - Is what you think of. - My brain jumps to Switzerland when I think cheese. - Is it just 'cause of sweet cheese? Is it your favorite cheese? - Good question. No, I just have a deep knowledge of cheese and I know that a lot of winning cheese comes from Switzerland, like bullshit. - No, the two of the cheeses are one. The big winners from Switzerland. So did you write the doc for this before or after you attended that and you knew that they won? - No, I walked in there with a world of knowledge about everything. Had nothing to do with the fact that Swiss cheese is a thing. - Okay. - Had nothing to do with it. - Just a deep knowledge of the world of competitive cheese. - Have you had cheese curds prior to this? - Did you have cheese curds there? - I had one squeaky curd. - Cheese curds are really good too. - Yeah, I didn't realize until this trip that they were such a thing. - Yeah. - But they're loved in this town. They're like worship like a god, the cheese curd. - I mean, you can get like deep fried cheese curds too. - Oh my God, it's really good. - Could you get those and where would I get a deep fried? You do it at home, I guess. What do you like about it?
- You buy them from a place. - You can get them at like grocery stores, sometimes. - Would you have that as a night cheese? A cheese curd? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Nedley just hears squeaking, comes from the kitchen. - It's nice. - Like what are you doing? - Deep fried cheese curzes, like a bar food. - Yeah, right, at that point. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But like you said, Wisconsin, Wisconsin people are a lot like Minnesota people, where they're just very polite and nice. - Kind of to a almost sickly level. - Yeah. - Like, oh my god, like, what's the catch? Are you scamming me? And they're not, they're just kind and lovely. - I will say, because Minnesota is above Wisconsin and then Chicago. I do feel like all three of the areas kind of share that. But the closer you get to Chicago is, like the gradient gets like a little more gristly. - Start to get like, yeah, a little bit more combative and not just like-- - I want to say combative. People in Chicago are very nice too. - But more abrupt. - Yeah, but then you go like to Boston and New York, and that's like continuing-- - Intracing. - Interesting. - I do wonder like socially how that works. It's like accents across America, right? Like there's an evolution of that. But I like that there's this evolution of, not, I don't know the word is like niceness or-- - Personality. - It's an originates. - Yeah. And then you get to LA, and it's just like a melting pot of like shit hits with some nice people thrown in, you know? - I mean, you get to LA, and it's a lot of people that aren't from LA. And you become a combination of everything. - This is a good point. I like that idea though. - I feel like you have a lot more New Yorkers from New York than you have people from California here. - This is accurate. - It is a, yeah. - That's what makes California. - In sync with like Chicago. There's a lot more people that are just-- - Oh my gosh, Chicago. - Not Chicago. - Well, this is three majors. - Do you have cheese in Chicago? - We do have cheese. - Do you have cheese in New Zealand? - No, this is novel. - It's a really novel thing to me here. - I did also, if you heard about any cheese heists, famous cheese heists, which maybe this needs to just be a bone speech on upside at some point, but cheese is the most stolen food on earth. - This is incredible. - 4% of the world's cheese supply goes missing annually. - It's the most stolen food on the planet. - But not just shoplifters organized crime has gotten into cheese theft. - I love this. - 1928, the Brooklyn Cheese Bandits. We're busted after confessing to 25 robberies in a two month period. - Holy shit. - They got the name not because they stole cheese because they were robbing delis and eating cheese. - That's really good. - The Italian Parmesan gang of 2015. - These names is so incredibly bolder. - This is not America though. Fortunately, but 11 thieves who have spent two years stealing 2,039 wheels of Parmesan cheese worth $875,000. - That is insane. Also it makes sense because you can wheel them away, right? Just convenient shape to get out of there. Just roll them out the door into the back of the van. - According to the official governing body for Italian Parmesan makers, over $3 million in Parmesan is stolen in Italy every year. This is what I remember reading about. So in early 2013, Bollica showed up at Wisconsin cheese factory with forged paperwork and tricked the owner into loading his truck with 21 tons of monster cheese worth $200,000. - Holy shit. - He then drove to New Jersey and tried to sell it at a rest stop. - At a rest stop. - His light Mateo's matcha. - Yeah. - Matcha out the corner. - Yeah. - And then another Wisconsin cheese crime wave in 2016. They were hit with three high profile cheese heists ranging from 46,000 to $90,000 were the stolen cheese. The 90,000 dollar one was all Parmesan cheese. - So we're learning Parmesan cheese is the. - The idea of having to sell all that is so stressful to me. Like, people don't want bulk cheese. I want bulk cheese. - I'm sorry you want bulk cheese. If you went to a truck stop and there was just like a van with like a lot of like quite cheap but really good cheese, are you loading that into your car? - No, I'm not trusting the guy in a van with cheese. I think the cheese heists were learning are similar to the maple syrup ice in Canada. - Yeah. I really like that it happens. I don't support crime but I like creativity and that's kind of incredible. - Cheese. - We love it. - Madison loved you. I'd go back again. It did remind me a little bit of like a small New Zealand town. It felt like homely lots of dive bars around. - Yeah. - Student town lots of people on the booze. - Yeah, there's college. - It's a good, it's just a good fun there. I like Madison and a beautiful capital building and a shit ton of cheese. Just cheese mungers on every other corner. - Yeah. - Loved it. - Okay, feedback to previous episodes. How do you feel about that, Robert? - I feel great. - Pinball Tom Rodin saying in regards to puzzles, we had a Christmas tradition when I was about eight years old. We went to my grandparents to open presents. Being kids, we always tested the artists to start the present opening process, but we're given a task we had to complete first. We had to complete a puzzle. Over the years was the same puzzle, so we got pretty good at it, while taking less than two hours in later years. Not bad time, two hours. Not the 30 minutes of our competitive puzzler, but close. - Yeah, Karen, we disappointed at two hours. You're caring to peel it, come on up your game. Kathy says, "Rob, puzzle boards can slide under your coffee table or sofa. Get a puzzle board, Rob, will allow you to do puzzles any time you want to do a puzzle. Note though, if you've got a kitty cat, they'll enjoy sitting on your puzzle board all the time. It's very cute. - Do you have a small dog that's kinda like a cat? - Love your dog. - I consider a puzzle board, Mona Lynn. - Cheers. Thank you for the last episode with Karen. I'm one of those people with the speed puzzles. I train and everything, but I'm nowhere near as good as Karen. It's a big thing in New Zealand too. We have our nationals coming up on Saturday, the 25th of July in Auckland, New Zealand. - Also, I'm catching up on all the episodes. Rob referred to a herb, a ragneo. Am I saying they're a regano? - A regano. - A regano. - A regano. - Rob referred to it as a spice. - But it's a herb. - Not a spice. - I just love, I don't know why I find this so funny. - Well, it comes from the leafy part. - Yeah, I can't explain it. - Of a plant. - It's a herb. - It can't, you can't. - Never come from any other part. - Like the seed, the bark, the root, or the flower. It's a spice, you fucking idiot, Rob. Shouldn't say that. I thought this might interest you. Love Mona Lynn. - Yes. - I know you can buy a regano leaves, and as a herb, but also it's in my spice rack too, as dried oregano. - Interesting. - But I mean, you can have dried herbs. You can have basil that's dried and in a right shaker. - You always have a spice rack. You don't even get a herb rack. - You. - No, you have like a herb drawer in the fridge, though, for fresh herbs, or like we'll do the basil plant sometimes, or mint in my home, I have zero herbs or spices, 'cause I am, I don't cook. I like that we're competing. We're going back and forth with how we pronounce it. We're ignoring the other one saying it differently. - It's good. - So that should be. - Yeah. - It's also the way, it's the way you're all using it. - You'll never get the last word. The last one says herb. - Herb. - Herb, okay. - And on it. - Onward and-- - Thank you, Mona Lynn, for correcting Rob's heinous error about herbs. - I'll be happy. - Herb. I said herbs. - I know you don't. - Instead of your least. - And said, I'm finishing the puzzles episode, and I thought you and the listeners might like to know about this genius business idea. Someone had, we rent puzzles. It's perfect for my 80 year old mum who has all the time to complete them, but doesn't want a closet full of puzzles she has to purchase. She sends it back when she's done, and they ship out another one. Shout out. We should be sponsored by this company. Shout out to completing the puzzle for helping my mum keep her mind sharp. - I really like that idea. I do feel like puzzles are one of those things that used aren't great. - Disaster. - 'Cause yeah, you do a puzzle two or three times. - He says they're gonna get all tatted. - Yeah. - You get people's skin sells flaky skin in the box. - Chicken toenail. - Hair. - Hair in there? - Yeah. - Oh, disgusting. - You're like getting 20 pieces to hit me. - Exactly. There's like a layer of oil from the skin on each piece. - Some people. - I think we might have just lost her up to have them as a sponsor. - Completing the puzzle. Disgusting. - Maybe they clean. - Maybe they clean. - Very happy. You're 80.
your old mum has endless puzzles. It kind of sounds like early Netflix, where John says, "I enjoyed your episode about Goosebumps and the legend that is our alstein. I live in Mr. Science hometown of Columbus, Ohio, where I am a seasoned ticker holder for our major league soccer team, the Columbus crew. Just our season, they unveiled a Goosebumps themed jersey kit to honor the legendary author. The kit makes it into the regular rotation of the team. It's always a treat when they're sporting it, thought you'd enjoy." Rob, I included that bit of feedback because it was sports-related. And I'm trying to cater more to you. Yeah, that's where you got a football. That's what this football is. It's the awesome wagon for it. Sports sports sports. And that's why you name this cheese heads rather than cheese competition, which was actually what this episode was about. Exactly. I wanted to get your attention, bacon switch. It's a bacon switch. Finally, Amy said, "Hi, David and Rob. I just wanted to let you know how happy and thankful I am that you made a follow-up episode with Nick. By far, your first episode with him is my favorite podcast episode of all time. I distinctly remember listening to the episode while walking my dog on a great chilly, quiet San Diego morning and just being so deeply moved. This is the episode, the parasocial listener part two. After the episode ended, I just continued to walk in silence, stunned by what he's gone through and that he continues to go through. I just couldn't believe what a beautiful spirit he has despite everything that's going on. Listening to that episode was especially eye-opening for me because I had been going through a challenging time, but then listening to Nick quickly put my stuff in perspective. I'm really glad he got to explore New Zealand. It's one of my favorite places. The part that really gave me major chills was when you commented that maybe in some twisted series of events that his brain cancer is what saved him. Those moments and stories that make you think is the more of this existence than we think. I appreciate your dedication. You both have to this podcast and really wanted to share how meaningful that was. From leap lowers to brain cancer, I truly enjoy every episode. Thank you for what you do. Thank you, Amy. Beautiful feedback. Thanks for listening to the show. If you have feedback, what's our email? Rob.
[email protected]. We are also on
[email protected]/platerspert. Yeah, we do it a little bonus episode every week on there. We have extra little bits of joy. Listen, add free. Watch, add free if you want, or regular episodes. Yeah, if you want to support the show, completely optional. Regular episodes come out as paranormal, but if you want to support the show, there is extra stuff on there. Next week, we have a part two from Wisconsin. What's it going to be? Is it going to be sport? Is it going to be booze? Is it going to be the delves? The delves. It's not the delves. We're going to go back for the delves when it is summer. When I was there, the legs were all frozen. Yeah. It was fucking freezing and beautiful. I walked on one of the frozen legs. It's beautiful. I loved it. My boys have been to the delves a few times already. I have now gone with them, but whenever they go and visit my parents, they take a trip up to the Wisconsin delves. So they've been two or three times at this point. Talked a lot with people in town when we weren't talking cheese, talked a lot about the delves, and everyone had a story about the delves. It's like their theme pack. It's water. Except it was a whole town. There's a Ripley's believe it or not. What I didn't know is that they have, um, and maybe obvious, but it's winter there often. Yeah. They have indoor ones. Yeah. It doesn't need to be summer. Yeah. You can just see them yourself. Yeah. There's something a little gross about an indoor water park belt. The like hot mugginess of a. God, it's like being in the tropic steamy indoor. It's like being in the rain forest. Yeah. I also like that some of the adults said that there's like areas so that you can leave your kids in the filth. And then like adults have like a special area where they can just go and get boozed. That sounds amazing. I've not gone to the adult or someone that boozes so I don't know. I don't know that part. Could go together one day. A day sealed in the delves. That's okay. We'll see you next week. See you next week. Bye bye. [Music]
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