Winston Lee ID’d as Former South Korean Prime Minister’s Grandson: Cornell 7 Case

politicians typically are the most loved when they're dead that is not a general threat aimed at a singular person or group of people but something about politicians not being able to wield their positions of power typically makes them seem that much more lovable and of course i would say that most obituaries omit all the bad stuff that they've done because i feel like that would have been a bit of a faux pas i imagine and i'm not saying that every politician is more bad than good but i'm just saying it's very interesting that all the bad stuff they've done is almost forgotten the minute that they die and that may be the case for lee hong koo he's the former prime minister of south korea he was the prime minister of south korea when we talked about this case on this channel the samplung department store collapsed because all of the building regulations were just bad they were greedy money hungry developers involved he was the prime minister at that time we've covered that on this channel but he's also held some other really high titles he was a major figure in a pretty conservative south korean politics some of his top positions that he held was as a unification minister just like unifying north and south korea deputy prime minister and an ambassador to washington and london he died earlier this year at 92 years old and i'm not saying that he doesn't have an admirable legacy or that he wasn't a good person but this was a powerful man in south korea but all of that the articles now state along the lines of he leaves behind a korea that is more democratic more connected to the world and more sure of itself in no small part because of him he was also known to help bring the world cup games to 2002 in korea which they co-hosted that that was probably one of the more controversial world cup games that ever existed but overall he is just a well-known figure with a long legacy that's what he's going to be well known for but it seems like all of that could be changing recently because netizens have put two and two together that his own grandson might be become more well known than him at least over here in the united states netizens believe that his grandson is winston lee one of the accused are you serious yeah wait how so in korea a lot of these major political heads their family lineage is trackable so the new york times as well as a lot of big mainstream korean news outlets they found his korean name winston lee's korean name and then that matched up with winston lee's middle name in the u.s they were born on the same day i believe there was some sort of indication that he went to cornell i mean what are the odds right it could be that they have the same name were born on the same day same day same name could be going to i think there was indication that yeah they went to cornell that is crazy yeah so this is the report right now yes out there that it is most likely his grandson is winston lee one of the accused in the case that has been dubbed the cornell seven case freaking crazy yeah oh my god because i know netizens are like i think he's back in korea i think he's in the army right now everyone was trying to track down winston lee some people are saying no he's at cornell others were saying he transferred to this university but regardless of the facts if this is true then i think he's in the army right now i think he's in the army this familial connection turns out to be true winston lee might be one of the most prominent students out of these seven that have been accused coming from one of the most prominent families in all of south korea he has now since lawyered up and these are lawyers that you may be very familiar with tenny garagos who is with agnifilo's law firm mark agnifilo who represented sean combs later luigi mangiotti well also keith ranieri but they want the attorney general of new york off the cornell seven case and if i guess anyone has enough power and connections it maybe could be them this is the final part of the cornell seven case as of right now we'd like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for rotten mango to support rain aka the rape abuse and incest national network rain provides free confidential support services and information to survivors of sexual violence available 24 7 by phone chat or text this episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support rotten mango's team of dedicated researchers and we'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support as always full show notes are available on rottenmangopodcast.com before we begin a content warning this episode discusses alleged sexual assaults including drug and alcohol usage potential coercion as well as the greater ripple effects that have resulted from this case if there's going to be heavy debates of people doubting victim stories of people coming out and having very strong opinions about who the accusers are who the victim is who the real victim is there's just a lot of heated discussion if that's something that's very hard to hear please take care of yourself skip this one if you need to and i also cannot stress enough that this case is currently ongoing when we describe what happened that case is currently ongoing and we're going to talk about it in a little bit but before we do that we're describing what is alleged in court filings reported by news outlets or found in public records up until the time of recording due to the current pending legal status we also have to use words like alleged according to jane doe according to the accused according to the defendants right the usage of these words does not discredit anybody's stories i'm just telling you this is what this person said this is what this person claims i feel like these words have become charged over time but just know that nothing has been proven in the court of law nobody has been charged with a crime as of right now nobody has been convicted or found guilty and everybody should be treated as innocent until and unless proven guilty in the court of law and also do your own research any comments theories speculations opinions claims any of the leaked information they are all available publicly online to look at and to peruse through yourself they do not reflect rotten mingo's beliefs and nor are we saying that this is the only comprehensive overview of the case that you should be receiving if there are any massive developments or changes in the court of law changes in the case we're going to do our best to keep you guys updated so with that being said let's get started after the night in question october 20th 2024 jane doe says that she wakes up around 4 to 5 p.m the next afternoon she gets back to her sorority house really early in the morning she goes to sleep wakes up and says quote i was made aware of what happened to me at kai fai was becoming public knowledge it was made clear to me by several friends that members of kai fai were bragging about having an eightsome with me some rumors said it was 10 people but i'm not sure but nonetheless it was now obvious that everyone knew it was me that this had happened to this is where things get pretty murky you have a lot of people online who look at the night in question and everyone's initial statements about what they said happened that night in question and either they firmly believe that jane doe was victimized or they firmly believe that she was not victimized but now she may be victimizing the seven because she has changed her mind about what happened there are some netizens who believe that jane doe consented to everything that night she did not mention saying no she did not mention being forced by way of physical force i will note that um i don't know if these netizens are forgetting but she does mention coercion and intoxication some of these netizens are pointing out that at certain points in the night she did in fact say no and the guys did not push her further such as when she said no to a foursome and a foursome did not occur so they're almost using this as evidence of when she did say no nothing happened others say just because she didn't violently scream no at the top of her lungs doesn't consensual jane doe tells the title nine panel that she did not show any excitement any enthusiasm which is kind of the basis of consent many netizens argue that consent shouldn't just be a yes it should be an enthusiastic yes and even if she said yes to the initial threesome she could have withdrawn consent at any given point however other netizens disagree saying that's too vague of a standard like that's very difficult to prove one netizen comment reads how enthusiastic must a person have been to receive updated consent during an encounter to have satisfied the requirement of getting consent at every stage this shifts burden of proof onto the accused and it's normally the job of the accuser to prove their claims but a lot of netizens are pushing back on that sentiment saying okay but like come on this is not a situation where it's like uh well maybe they really didn't know they put it in the snapchat the snapchat was sent out people are coming into the room asking to do things on her body whether it be snort drugs or whether it be kissing her she doesn't know many of the people in the room she's clothed she's provided with drugs and alcohol sure it's not a clean black and white issue of she screamed no and they tied her down and abused her but a lot of people say to act like we don't know what's going on in that room with this energy this kind of environment that's in that fraternity house it feels like a setup and if you don't acknowledge that it's like abandoning all of your brain cells left in your mind to play the unpaid internship role of devil's advocate these conversations have only gotten more intense as more information has been released about that's been released about messages and phone calls between jane doe and the accused in the days and weeks after the incident before jane doe reports the incident to campus police so this incident takes place october 19th she reports the incident november 8th okay this timeline is not uncommon for survivors or victims not saying that there was a crime but i'm saying it's not strange however people have different opinions about why she went to the police the people who are firmly against jane doe they say her breaking point was that she got disinvited from the kaifi halloween party and that is when you see her this is what they claim that is when you see her message and her tone against the accused shift less from i love you that was fun to more so something bad happened to me like explain yourself others argue it's not that she got disinvited from the halloween party it's because trauma takes time for the individual to even grasp what happened to them so what exactly is everybody debating about jane doe wakes up in the sorority house 4 to 5 p.m she finds out these rumors are being spread people are finding out that something occurred in the fraternity house the night before jane doe's roommates were interviewed by the school's title 9 investigation and they report that jane told them that if anyone asks about them just just say none of it happened like if anyone's like hey i heard about your roommate jane just say it didn't happen which it appeared the roommates agreed but they were just concerned they later tell school investigators she was just recounting it as this sort of crazy thing that she had done as the days went on i think she kind of came to realize that it was something bad and that she didn't really enjoy her time there which is contentious even that statement is being debated because some people are saying see this is what happens trauma takes time for you to come to the truth others are saying you don't just get to decide you didn't have a good time after the fact regret is not the same thing as a crime so there's a lot of debate going on even the roommate's word usage however i will say one other statement from a roommate is the roommate told the investigators that jane doe was essayed before and that made it incredibly difficult for her to open up and say i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm talk about what happened at this time. So there's some sort of history of trauma they indicate. I don't know how true that is. The roommate says I think she wanted it to be consensual. I'd have conversations and she would describe a part of what happened and I would tell her that you know this would be classified as rape. So is it a change of mind? Is it a change of heart? Or is it a denial process that takes her time so that she can face the trauma? One of Jane's other roommates recalls the morning after Jane said oh my goodness like isn't that crazy. The roommate states that Jane does not refer to the incident initially as rape or assault but she was also kind of like laughing as she recounted the events. However the roommate notes that it seemed like Jane was in some sort of shock. Quote not really understanding the gravity of what she was saying. A second roommate states that Jane Doe told her quote I wasn't comfortable. One of her roommates later states I don't really remember her ever kind of citing that she had said yes to anything that occurred. So they're saying okay the the vibe that I get from some of these snippets of the title nine investigation and this is not the full title nine investigation because it hasn't been made public but this is what I pulled from the John Doe v Cornell lawsuit. Please if you guys haven't listened to part one and part two or seen those videos go watch those because it's just really extensive to cover it. However in those lawsuits there's little snippets of the title nine investigation and it seems like the vibe that I'm getting from the roommates is Jane is telling them like oh it was such a crazy night and they're all feeling like oh this is essay and she is not seeing it. That's the vibe I get. Like she's in shock we're telling her that's not and then she said that she didn't say yes to anything she wasn't comfortable. People around Jane feel like she's a victim of essay before she even considered herself a victim of essay is the vibe that we get. Another individual student at Cornell heard rumors about what happened and the version that she heard was something along the lines of oh Jane Doe intended to have a threesome but the situation quote went off the rails. She later contacted crime alert. So she's calling the campus security system like alerting system. She had the screenshots of the Kai-Fi Snapchat messages. She heard the rumors of what was going on and she was interviewed for 30 minutes by the Cornell University Police Department telling them everything that she knew and she just assumed that they were competent and they were going to handle it and there would be some sort of investigation. She says now in hindsight she feels betrayed on how the situation was handled because the DA didn't even open an investigation. This was November 9th? Yeah around November. Another point of contention is that people have been interpreting differently. Jane Doe is she's in a sorority so she has a sorority big which is kind of like a Greek life thing. It's like an older upperclassman who is your guide in the sorority. So she goes to her big and she's like hey I know that there's probably going to be rumors about me that are circulating calling me a slut. Jane Doe apparently laughs and adds unfortunately they are true. Some people take this as wow look at this she thinks it's he he ha ha well not two years later now she wants to sue the fuck out of everybody she thought it was funny why isn't it funny now others think she's clearly not actually laughing like none of that seems like a silly goofy time that actually seems like someone on the verge of a mental breakdown and the big sister from tri-delta even later tells school investigators I could tell that just from personal experience that what she was going through is that she had not yet processed what had happened. The day after that October 21st Jonathan Newell texts Jane Doe so this is the guy that was involved in the first sexual encounter and the second as listed by Jane Doe's lawsuit and also he's the one that poured allegedly poured ketamine onto his erect body parts. Hey Jane this is Jonathan redacted give me your number I just wanted to apologize for how things went down the other night my memory is kind of fuzzy about a lot of it but me and Matt both feel like shit for being too fucked up to shut it down and kick people out before it got way out of hand you're an amazing person and I genuinely hope you're not catching as much heat from this as we are we've been shutting down any stories we've heard but again I'm so so sorry this message on the surface a lot of netizens believe is evidence that Jonathan is a kind caring person if he did essay her why would he reach out to her and frame it this way but other netizens think that's a bizarre message to send to someone after a consensual threesome at a party it's one thing if Jane's friend Matthew sent her something along those lines but this message is a very nice message and I think it's a very nice message to send to someone who's a little bit more of a control type of message also I guess you could argue that maybe Jonathan is just being a nice guy however not being nice is not a crime but Jonathan to me and maybe my standards of someone being nice is skewed he doesn't seem like a nice guy at all he sent the initial snapchat message free pussy alum pull up but suddenly he's out here checking up on everyone checking up on the well-being just saying sorry just because I'm apologetic for nothing even though I didn't commit a crime or do anything wrong morally apprehensible I just like to say sorry to people like he just doesn't fit that vibe in my head. yeah but the more contentious online argument lies with Jane Doe's response to his message because she responds oh Jonathan I really appreciate this text my memory is super clouded too I think we were all way too fucking drunk and high I'm getting a little heat pi fi girls so a other sorority redacted and redacted can't get my name out their mouth but that's to be expected but at the end of the day none of the sexual stuff was illegal and honestly I really liked being with you and Matt so anything anyone has to say about the gangbang is out of their jurisdiction I don't think we should feel any shame for the part because our body is our choice as fuck but if you have any regrets or anything you want to talk about I am always here to talk about it because that was a lot I really do love you and Matt and I promise I won't get quiet and weird with you like I did last time she suggests later that they smoke together and this time quote but like leave out the extra five billion men and ketamine it has been alleged that Jonathan Newell was with Jillian Lopes Lopes when he sent this apologetic text message to Jane Doe and Jillio Lopes attorney who on behalf of Jillio denies that okay so Jillio Lopes is accused in Jane Doe's lawsuit as being part of the second sexual encounter with Jonathan Newell yeah Jillio Lopes his attorney comes out and says he never saw drugs being used in that room like he's he that was his room he just popped in like they're everyone's having a good time right he's confronted with this information but like your client was with Jonathan when he sent this message apologizing for the drugs and things getting out of hand how do we know that they're together when they send the message I believe it was in like the title 9 investigation that mainstream media were able to get their hands on the attorney responds well it wasn't Mr. Lopes apology he didn't write an apologetic text or email to her so he's just like what does that have to do with my client which I guess is a valid argument the next day October 22nd Jane Doe goes to Cornell Health because she has a UTI and wants to get tested for STDs she briefly mentions to the doctor that she contracted the UTI in a quote traumatic way she claims that the doctor I guess doesn't really follow up on that and just suggests Jane should go to therapy therapy oh for the trauma I see yeah which is Cornell Health what the hell is happening I'm so lost like I don't know one interesting thing to note is that early on in the communications that have been made public Jane Doe seems very confused about the fact that she has a UTI and wants to get tested for STDs how these rumors are spreading so quickly she keeps trying to figure out where the hell it's coming from and as she's texting Matthew which is the friend that invited her to the fraternity party he also sounds confused befuddled that one is okay one text message from Matthew to Jane Doe sounds like he's just as frustrated and perplexed as she is he says dude I have no fucking idea this shit is incredibly frustrating and now I know how fast nonsense spreads at this school it's fan behavior from everyone talking about it boring people who have nothing to do with their time it'll blow over in a couple days I imagine until then we just have to sit tight how have you been coping with the stress you need anything fan behavior yeah what now mind you another reminder though I don't think it needs to be reminded 57 member group chat they're all responding free pussy come whip it out boys come whip it out firsthand POV this is not a bit like what do you mean you don't know how the rumors are responding could it be like I don't know I don't know I don't that any singular one of the 57 people told another person about it and they told someone else about it they were all there in that group chat it seems like if anyone's a rat it's you guys jane doe response i will also say this is fucking ruining my life temporarily my reputation is destroyed i'm utterly ashamed i'm fucking pissed because this many people shouldn't know and i feel like i know who some of the rats in the room were if i ever find out i swear to god it's on site literally people are making it crazier every fucking day on top of it i have a uti and all i do is sleep and cry all day okay when was this do you know two days like two days after again another reminder matthew is in the group he's the one that invites his friend yeah three five minutes of dancing go by he's like you want to have a threesome okay then he's in the group chat boys come whip it out no like you can just come in and whip it out okay that's all i know about his personality maybe he's a great person outside of this incident but that's all i know about this man and then all of a sudden his text messages to me are like two different people i'm so sorry dude this sounds incredibly overwhelming and fucked up on all fronts i've been dealing with similar stuff on my end but obviously it doesn't compare to what you're going through the most reassuring thing i can offer is that it will blow over and soon stupid bitches like to yap and the fact they're doing it shows that they're just jealous of you for any number of reasons i understand the regret but personally i don't think you have anything to be ashamed of the only shameful thing is how this is spread and how people won't shut up about it which just reflects poorly on them to be honest as for the uti i'm pretty ignorant about how that works but if there's anything medicine a call etc you need from me then let me know and i can make it happen this sucks dude but we've been through worse right i'm sorry if this isn't what you're looking for but i'm here for you anyway heart hands heart emoji yeah yeah it's a lot you know this is a very strange message i mean i feel like a friend wouldn't respond in this way they would just be more realistic and comforting this is a very pr message and i'm sorry if this isn't what you're looking for but i'm here for you anyway message it's like if you worked with a pr firm or maybe he's just a very very very caring guy exactly and i don't know him so it could be one or the other or something in between right so again boys come whip it out to turn around i don't know anything about utis but if you need medicine if you need a friend if you need a shoulder to lean on if you just need someone to listen to you whatever you need i know this isn't helpful i'm here for you i'm just saying what the fuck's happening are these the same people or not some netizens have been pointing out that jane joe's responses to all of the accused are overly nice and overly sweet and i think one of the more nuanced netizen takes that i don't see a lot of people talking about is one big factor i do think should be considered is not only the fact that this is statistically and anecdotally a lot of people do not see a lot of people talking about trying to believe that the essay was not essay and that they consented to it because that would mean that their brain doesn't have to deal with the turmoil that they can act like oh this is something that i actually wanted and they can even try to convince themselves no i had a great time but another factor that should be considered is she's probably a social pariah at the school aside from her close friends which who knows how many she has and if they're even behaving weirdly around her if they're on the fence about what to believe or who to go with who knows how they're showing her care concern or sympathy she's probably being judged she says all she does is cry her reputation is ruined and these guys are messaging her hearing her out making her feel like they're all in this together they're also victims of this rumor mill that she did nothing wrong fuck everyone else as long as we stick together we're gonna come out the other end stronger they sound caring why would she not latch on to that if she's in such a sensitive point in her life it's likely she can't call her parents and tell them what's going on who's going to relate to her and care for her right now as she's processing these very big emotions jane doe responds you're right it'll get better and you think everyone's just jealous of us but also like everyone needs to grow up because sexuality and sex and shit is changing and stuff like this is going to become more common i'm also really open-minded though i love you king also tell anyone who gives you shit that i'll actually beat them up they don't want the smoke i promise later matthew texts jane doe you good in the today and i know he told people he was at pi five two nights ago too matthew responds defending jonathan like and again he never brings up the snapchat jane is like i think jonathan is going around telling people about what happened in that room because he was at the sorority house where all the rumors seem to be starting from oh she doesn't know about the snapchat yet yeah and these guys are not telling her i see so he's like no he didn't talk about it at pi five for sure they wouldn't bring that up in front of him when his story has been it's not true the whole time i'll ask him though it was definitely one of the upperclassmen in the room who told something about him and he said no he didn't talk about it at pi five for sure they wouldn't that one isn't believable though who told you this if we can narrow down the girl we can narrow down the suspects i know it wasn't jonathan trust me he would never trust me he would never he sent the initial snapchat broadcasting free body parts so i don't know if i trust you on that one but also like what's with the intensity of the investigation if you don't really care like i've never met a group of guys broadcast free body parts of a woman so openly and be sexually involved with them in an easily accessible room but also suddenly be so upset that people are talking about what happened jane doe responds she wouldn't tell me who she heard it from because it's one of her friends so i'm just dropping it i give up i'm defeated matthew responds i'm sorry jane i know this sucks a lot but i think hopefully very soon these idiots will move on and it'll be done with eventually jane doe messages matthew and her tone starts to shift as well and it appears at some point matthew tries to call jane doe but she texts him and said i'm with my mom what's up it's all right never mind it'll sort itself out hopefully what just give me a gist my ex told me that i'm being labeled as an assaulter in the public eye i was gonna ask if you may have said something along those lines to someone but i know you wouldn't i haven't said anything but i do know that people are changing the narrative because like in any sexual scenario with one woman and many men the woman was probably victim i know there are rumors i was gang banged i've never said anything against you but i have about jonathan she says i have a friend who was going to kai fai and i said i don't but i've never mentioned her name so this is referencing to she's not going to kai fai which speaking of jane doe was really upset that she was disinvited from the halloween party so this is referencing to she's not going to kai fai which speaking of the guys are talking to her about like we'll just meet up at the halloween party at the kai fai house she's like i'm gonna bring cigarettes like we'll bring something to smoke it'll be fun then she gets a call from the president of kai fai who tells her for her own safety not safety but more so like for her and for everyone she probably shouldn't come to the party and she texts matthew like this is what always happens women always get the short end of the stick i know you guys are just covering y'all's asses but he responds okay i appreciate that a lot thank you prayer hands so he still confirming like she's not going out and calling him an assaulter then november 8th matthew texts jane doe jane you free to call soon cornell armada when we call sending so i remember so i guess cornell armada is some sort of note to self jane doe responds that day what i think i'm done talking to you i know you lied what can you call no never again jane what did i lie about it's unclear if there is a single moment or if it's a slow realization that dawned on jane that she did not like or believe what happened to her at the kai fai house was consensual but there is this um one reported incident so about a week after the incident jane doe is online browsing a forum for greek life and she comes across a post that reads our kai fai brothers crips or bloods because i hear they've been doing just hell like gang banging so i guess they're saying like what the fuck is going on in that fraternity house if they're out here gang banging people are they like part of a gang another response they do drugs and gang rape to sophomore report them jane doe says that's the first time i had ever heard the narrative change that i wasn't a whore that i was assaulted she even sends this link to matthew with question mark question mark question mark and he just responds ridiculous i'm going to report them there are a series of phone calls now some of them have been recorded and they've been getting leaked to the media however there are some that i don't think have been recorded and these are the earlier phone calls but jane doe's roommates they told the title nine panel that they were there for some of these phone calls in the same room as jane and they heard what matthew was saying one of them reports that during the conversation they just heard matthew apologizing to jane doe over and over and over again and jane doe was being rather confrontational with her questions she was asking matthew how he could let this happen who are these people later on another phone call with one of the accused jane doe's roommate hears her saying you had penetrative sex with me i had so much ketamine my eyes were closed and you still had sex with me and by november 3rd jane doe is texting jonathan so she went to jane doe's room and she said jane doe is texting jonathan and jane doe is texting jonathan from like that nothing illegal happened in the days right after the incident she's texting him like that was fun like i loved hanging out with you and matt and then she texts him let's be clear that 90 of what happened that night was not consensual i was given more key than i can remember keeping ketamine and i know i told you that i felt uncomfortable and i didn't know anyone in the room she details in that text message that one of her only memories was doing ketamine off of jonathan's private parts quote in front of everyone like a sex doll or sex worker november 7th jane doe goes to the er and requests a rape kit and that same day there's a recorded phone call between jane doe and matthew and jane doe is just telling matthew the only way for me to heal is to know what happened that's why i'm trying just to piece it together you know i'm like i'm so confused if i just know what happened then i can feel a little bit better and move on and maybe be able to stay at the school portions of this phone call have been released so i can't tell you that this is the exact full phone call or that this is the exact series of events in that phone call because it could have been altered so the full unanswered phone call has been released an altered phone conversation has not been released, but in one of the recorded phone calls, Jane Doe is asking Matt, Matthew. Like how did we even end up in a threesome? Matthew asked Jane Doe, you want me to give my recollection of the entire night? Matthew continues. So you come in, say hi. We start dancing for maybe three, five minutes. And then I pop the question, asking for a threesome. You say yes. Yes. And then I remember like we didn't know who else to bring. So I go up to Redacted, who was on the dance floor too. And I pop the question. And he's like, yeah. And then we go upstairs. He then indicated that the threesome activity began in the alumni room. End quote. After like 10 minutes, they slowed down a bit, drank alcohol, started smoking, and then the case started happening. He continues. And then I think by this point, it'd been like half an hour and everything was hitting me at the same time. I thought I was about to die. I moved to the bed and passed out. He recalls waking up, others coming in, Jane Doe's second consumption of ketamine, and later. And from there, it's kind of hazy. I think people left eventually. Like after like 20, 30 minutes, I was still in and out of consciousness. But after that, we moved up to the faux fist, you, me, and Redacted, but I think it's Winston, right? Then you tapped out and we were like, fair enough. And then you moved to my room. Jane Doe asks for the names of all the people in the alumni room that night. And Matthew responds. And again, these are people that are pretty trackable. And this is in the Snapchat group chat. He says, I've racked my brain for this like mystery part. You know, it's possible that both of us like remember this and it's not true. What? Yeah. Which Jane doesn't believe it. He's trying to say this might not be true. Our memories might not be true. Yeah. And Jane Doe is like, I don't think that's true. No, because I remember looking up and being like, this is too many people. Jane asked how many people ended up in the bedroom and why? Like the alumni, why are they in the alumni room? And again, the truth is in the Snapchat message, but it doesn't appear that Matthew responds to that. And she asked like, do you remember how any of these guys walked in? He's like, the door was just unlocked. The party was sort of like crowded. So people started like filling up the balcony just because there was nowhere to go. So the balcony is the upstairs, like second floor railing where sometimes they have the DJ. So they're all like filling up that area. And then the alumni room is unlocked. And the party's crowded. So people are just like, I guess getting shoved and pushed into the room. No, it definitely is not the Snapchat group account. Meanwhile, Matthew knows damn well, it's Snapchat. Jane Doe tells him you already knew that I was like 10 shots deep. Matthew responds, you did tell me you were sober, by the way, you did. You said you hadn't been anywhere. So he's saying like, you said that you didn't go anywhere before coming to the fraternity house, which Jane Doe pushes back saying that's not true. I never would have said that. Which I also don't know why she would lie about not being at a bar prior to it. Yeah, why would she say that I'm sober? Yeah, while they're about to get wasted, wasted? Yeah, that and I also don't know why someone would ask. I would imagine that maybe only ask because you're trying to catch them up to getting drunk. Are you sober? Okay, then maybe you need more drinks. Yeah, she said that she was 100% sure that she told him that she had been at the bar for the event prior to this. And she said, I never lie. Ultimately, Jane Doe tells Matthew straight up in the phone call, if I wanted to take this somewhere, what y'all did would be classified as gang rape. Which by the way, there are so many things that people have been picking apart about this phone call. One of the things that is kind of relevant, but not really relevant is the fact that Matthew asked Jane Doe for a threesome after dancing for three to five minutes. A lot of netizens are saying it's just not a normal request. The way the whole thing goes. It feels weird. Something about it feels off. To just jump in with that request. It feels kind of Yeah, like the idea was formed before the three minutes, five minutes. Exactly. It was not a spur of the moment. Like, oh my gosh, we're clicking so well. Maybe we can click with a third party. Like it's even if a guy after three to five minutes is like, do you want to engage in something just you and me have intimate relations? It's still kind of icky. And it's still kind of icky. And like, I don't know, like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But this whole threesome and if Jane Doe's account is to be believed, and she said that three guys in front already knew her and she doesn't recall meeting them. Some people are speculating it's been planned and discussed by people. But that is purely speculation just based off of I guess how abrupt the whole thing was. And also people don't like the fact that he was saying like, so I popped the question. And everyone's like, why is he acting like he fucking proposed? Jane Doe's attorney has been pushing back to people having very strong feelings against Jane Doe because of these phone calls. He says, I think a lot of people don't like that she said I love you king. I think the word king people so some people have been really running with it, saying like she is idolizing these guys and did this because she wanted to be part of their group. She came out and said that's just what she calls people like that's what she calls her friends. I guess it's like I love you. Twin, I guess right. Jane Doe's attorney says I think part of it is these guys were apologizing. He was being nice to her any abuser. That's the classic thing. A guy beats his wife the next day comes home with roses and then kind of gaslights them to think, well, I'm not such a bad guy. That's what I think happened in this. I think she really wanted to believe she was a victim, because it's really tough to deal with the label of being a victim, a rape victim. It's very hard. And I've seen a lot of people who are survivors. That's the first hard thing to do. One victim advocate seems to agree with this and says it's a very common process. Just saying one of the first things that people will say on the hotline is, I think something happened. So they're not sure in their victimization. They're not sure. They're not like I was brutally essayed like I need 911. I think something happened. And she says, and so what people want is some black and white narrative that says everybody absolutely recognizes what essay is. And this is that and this is that. And the victim must also know exactly what happened to them and retell it to the exact detail with exactly the right emotions for the believed. They say this is profoundly unrealistic and just another avenue to blame victims. But at the same time, many legal experts say it's very tricky when you're in this type of legal case, because evolving stories is very typical for survivors of essay. However, it's exactly what defense attorneys are going to attack over and over and over again. Another point of contention is people are asking, maybe all of this is happening. Jane Doe is hearing from people who are telling her no, that's not consensual. If you didn't say yes, that's not consensual. And then she later finds out about the Snapchat messages. She sees how quickly they're turning their their backs on her and don't really care for her. Did she then decide after the fact that she was raped? Or was that part of her realizing her trauma? And does it change anything? I don't know. Some people are debating about that as well. Like if she had said yes to all of this, but then she found out about the Snapchat, was she tricked into saying yes? And what does that mean? I mean, legally, it's trickier, but morally, I guess the debate is up. I think at points, some netizens believe that Jane Doe being too honest is also harming her case, which is, really shitty. A lot of people are saying victims can't be honest, because people will nitpick every little thing they say. So for example, a snippet of the Title IX investigation that has been circulating is Jane Doe talks about how she did have a crush on Matthew. And she said that crush was kind of like a quote, chokehold. And she would have done quote, anything to please him at the time. Netizens are saying, well, maybe anything to please him means engaging in all these sexual activities. So they're saying like, well, now maybe she's upset because she didn't end up getting him at the end. And now she wants to claim rape. Netizens are fighting back on this sentiment, writing things like an awful lot of people are defending the right of a pack of men to take advantage of a willfully intoxicated woman, so long as it doesn't dot the I's and cross the T's of the specifics of the state rape statutes, which I will say, if you do have to bring up the state rape statutes, or the penal code in your argument that Jane Doe is not a victim, I feel like you've lost the plot. I feel like you have kind of lost the argument. I'm not saying that this is a series of events that occurred that night. But I'm just saying, when you're referencing the penal code is kind of getting a bit out of hand. The title nine investigation, I will say is not a criminal investigation. The fraternity brothers did have ample time to talk to each other about what happened and what they were going to say about it. I'm not saying that they did in fact do that. I'm saying they had opportunity to if they really wanted to. But one student later tells the title nine investigation that some of the Chi Phi brothers were doing quote damage control to make sure that Jane was not upset about the situation. And they were not upset about the situation. One student straight up tells the panel, they try to contact Jane almost every day after it happened, I guess to keep them on her good side and keep her happy and not upset about the situation. The investigators, the CUPD, they straight up asked some of the fraternity brothers, like, did you guys have meetings about this case? Like, did you guys talk about getting your story straight or talking about like, did you guys talk about it? One of the fraternity brothers who was not part of the accused, he said, it did come up, but it was in like a chapter meeting. Okay, so they have a weekly chapter meeting. So all the active members have to be in there. And they just like go over the events, the schedule, all of these things, dues, any fees, anything that's coming up anything big. And then he said that, you know, they have like a winners and idiots of the week segment in the chapter meeting. So they're like, Oh, here are the winners of the week. And like, this is something cool they did. And then here like the idiots of the week, like they had an orgy in the alumni room. Ha ha. And so like, it came up in that portion, because it was like really idiotic. But then he's like explaining this wasn't a we didn't like, we didn't like, have a specific meeting for it. It just came up in a chapter meeting that we were already having. That's it. They call them idiots of the week. Basically, I don't think that made it any better. And one of the guys, he was interviewed by CPD. And he's like, Okay, well, the officer is asking, so, so what was said about this incident? And he was like, well, that it was like consensual. And so the CPD is like, Oh, I mean, listen, I was in a college at one point, you know, like, let's not be you're part of the fraternity. And you're one of your brothers just had sex and is like, hey guys let me tell you about this consensual thing i did it was super consensual like your pd said yeah even cupd is like what the fuck are you saying oh my god that's all you heard about it was like hey guys something really crazy happened really consensual happened super consensual as consensual as it gets i'm not even going to talk about the activity it was just just know that it was consensual it's crazy eventually when jane dode finally goes to the authorities one group chat shows one of the accused writing into the the fraternity group chat fuck should i call jane so i do think they have a mole i think they have a mole mole around jane doe in this group chat so some of these were probably given by people who were in the fraternity that were being investigated by title nine or being spoken to by title nine but also jane doe's attorney says that at some point one of the fraternity brothers in this group chat did anonymously send jane doe screenshots and they were actually asleep during the party so they were asleep during when these snapchats were happening but you it seems like matthew sends into the snapchat fuck should i call jane the fraternity president responds wait a bit for me and executive board to figure out what we're doing because there are a couple of things going on when was the last time you spoke to jane matthew responds yesterday what's the plan of action should i call jane doe i don't think she would have reported this now side note the president also tells matthew to wait because cupd initially listed the incorrect date for the alleged incident so maybe he thinks they'll just close the case because it was the wrong date or maybe they thought it was a different incident which doesn't make it any better but here's what's crazy i did some weird digging and i found there was a a chi-fi fraternity template that you can download online and it's for all the chapters so it's like for every school in each chapter and it's a template of all of their internal rules of what to do in a crisis so obviously if anyone is dying the crisis is like you got to get emergency attention like if there's a crime scene no one's allowed in the room if someone is dying you got to get an ambulance you can't try to hide them or whatever it's like you got to get an ambulance and that's the main thing but there's some side notes that are recommended by the chi-fi fraternity the national board i assume which is things like if you are being investigated by the police never wear any of the chi-fi letters yeah they say talk to the president before talking to authorities or the school talk to the executive board before talking to these people because statements should be taken and who's on the executive board it depends on each okay yeah like the national board but i will say another crazy thing is um don't so there are lots of crazy things that have happened where people have come out and said hey if shit goes down don't talk to the executive board of your fraternity oh yeah don't don't treat them like cops like just lawyer up for everyone because they're not looking out for you they will throw you under the bus if you did something that they think is throwing you under the busable i see that's why you're saying the fact that the president said let me talk to the board first yeah what are you talking about i'm not talking about the board i'm talking about the you guys going to talk about yeah this is you are not there right yeah this is a crime that was reported was the board there no were you there like hello and why is matthew waiting on the president like should i call what's the what's the action plan exactly it's very odd so i'm assuming that this template is to some degree accurate because that's kind of how things are playing out it's very bizarre and then the snapchat group just gets dumb again because the brothers are discussing the parties from that month to try to figure out exactly what party is going to be and what party is going to be and what party is going to be and what party this happened dad and one fraternity brother is like wait was that the night with jane doe what party do we have on the 19th another brother is like i think it was the risky business party they're like no that was the 25th then they're like oh it was the hawaii themed party and i'm like i just have that many parties yeah so many parties and that that is why many legal experts think cornell is going to go down this civil suit jane doe has listed cornell mooney's bar and the accused now cornell is interesting because the day that jane doe went to that party like 22 hours before there have been reports in the title nine investigation that a individual almost overdosed on ketamine in the kaifai house and had to be rushed to the hospital and there was a ketamine related arrest at the kaifai fraternity house which happens to be on cornell campus so this is not an off-campus arrest a separate incident yes someone just got arrested 24 hours ago 22 yeah before jane doe arrives now people are saying it was probably in cornell's best interest to temporarily shut down kaifai suspend kaifai and to make sure that they at the very least do not have any other official parties so when these fraternities and sororities have official like house parties they have to get it approved like they have to submit it to cornell it's not they can just be like hey guys i'm throwing a rager these are official fraternity events but they had one 22 hours after they had been someone had been arrested at the kaifai house for ketamine usage cornell didn't do anything about it yeah they didn't issue a temporary suspension right and this is on campus so cornell has power so i think that's where people are saying legally cornell might be in a pickle maybe because of that yeah so that's a huge thing i will say i did look up their policy and it said that they may be temporarily suspended if drug usage is like caught on these fraternity houses and sorority houses i guess maybe the keyword is may but it's the snapchats that were submitted by students jane doe's attorney says you had a complaining witness who said i was raped you had evidence of a crime in the form of that invitation to rape her so he's saying like those snapchat messages he's taking that as an invitation he said that's enough to investigate and more than just meeting her i mean think about what must have been on the cell phones of these guys if you can get them right away they're gone now and all they have to show for this is this very shitty title nine investigation and according to the title nine investigation like snippets from the john doe lawsuit it seems only one of the fraternity brothers shows any sort of outward remorse and contemplation again maybe all of them did but one student they say i'm sorry that maybe if it wasn't consensual and she was victimized i was sorry for not stopping it so this is one of the accused that was not involved in any of the sexual activities the three sexual big activities of the three threesomes but he's one of the seven yes so he's saying like i'm sorry that maybe if it wasn't consensual and she was victimized that i'm sorry i couldn't tell if she was under the influence just sorry that i felt like something actually bad happened and i didn't stop it which is a phenomenal apology if you have a lobotomy and somehow got accepted into cornell it seems to be the only one that she receives and it's not even for jane doe i guess it's more so for the panel i don't even know what kind of apology that is but in another recorded phone call there is a recorded phone call between winston lee and jane doe that has been released he's talking about how he felt so bad about what's happened to her that he actually thought about writing her a letter oh because he's like you know all the rumors he's insinuating it's like all the rumors and he felt so bad he wanted to write her a letter i've never what they're not even friends also even when friends feel bad for me they don't write me fucking letters that's weird this is so weird why are you writing what he's like i thought about writing you a letter and he says but you know there was so much going on he almost says like you know people kind of talked me out of it because there was so much happening and so much going on and jane doe is pretty firm and like i just want to know what happened because i don't like this is why were there so many people in the room why were there so many people what was happening and he's like i don't know i don't know and then eventually he kind of snaps and is like can i just ask why you called me so now he is suspicious because i guess he thinks she's recording it which she was but oh yeah he's okay and then and then that was all of the phone conversation that has been leaked so far i don't know if that's the extent of the phone conversation but he is asked about this with turn these recorded phone calls over to the panel and he says you know i think when i was having this phone call with jane doe i was concerned that there would be a crime alert that would come out accusing me of things that i didn't do i was just trying to not argue with her and for that reason i was kind of reaffirming that she what she's saying or kind of giving passing comments i was not aware that this was a recorded phone call and i was just kind of in a very casual state of mind i don't know this girl that much i mean that was the first time i ever had a conversation with her really so i didn't really feel like i had any obligation to be completely telling the truth with her what wait what about what truth what's the truth so i guess in the phone call he's not saying like no that's not true like i did not say like none of this happened what you're describing is not what happened that seems to be what i'm picking up from these statements but he's saying like hey i was just worried she was gonna alert me for something i didn't do and like i didn't owe her the truth i'm not her friend like i barely know this girl yeah i don't know honestly nothing makes sense in my mind i believe that statement is from winston lee because just judging by the phone calls it's matthew winston and then the rest were text messages but these are the two recorded phone calls unless there's more that we don't know of right and it's not surprising that this entire case has become quite political i do think that there has always been a very strong tie of crime and politics even just the language used of how politicians describe crime can indicate where they stand in their politics to indicate how tough they are on crime if they use words like law and order for example and i think that's a very strong tie of crime and politics is the rhetoric of how they treat police officers it's very politically charged language but i think more now with these cases it's becoming this very weird initiation test almost like a fraternity hazing to pledge your allegiance to a political party by pledging your allegiance to hating or loving a victim or a perpetrator or believing in someone's innocence or guilt it's just gotten so bizarre that people cannot even have conversations without just going off their rocker even trump has commented on this case Now, I will say, Trump does not like the idea attorney general that has been named the special prosecutor for this case Letitia James it's quite personal like very personal he's tried to get the DOJ to indict her on federal charges she sued him there was a whole yeah there was like a whole lawsuit and settlement the beef runs deep I think Trump was ordered to pay like 335 million dollars plus interest for fraud the monetary penalty was thrown out in court but some of the other stuff still stood I think it's safe to assume they're not going golfing together anytime soon AOC was at a town hall in Ithaca and she said I want to be clear that the culture of rape essay and pedophilia is protected in elite institutions across the United States including Cornell University in this instance it has got to stop those men posted in a group chat that means it was normal to them that means it was acceptable to them this is a culture this is norms these are practices and what we must do is understand that we cannot protect these spaces anymore some netizens believe that there should be some sort of middle landing ground one netizen states the university immediately put the men on suspension with absolutely no investigation or due process the police did absolutely nothing to investigate the incident or follow up with the report in any way it sounds like everyone involved independent of what actually happened that night failed to receive fair treatment and reasonable due process they say there has to be a better way than a blindly believing any accusation that anyone ever makes or be completely ignoring what are obviously very serious accusations so some people are saying maybe the school went overboard in their power and the DA did nothing which I don't know I mean these are strong sentiments as well other netizens have been using this and linking it to a handful of well-known cases where accusers were reportedly found to be caught lying about the crimes right um but other netizens have been pushing back pretty passionately saying okay well you can think of maybe three cases off the top of your head where someone was lying we can't even name every single case where someone was gang assayed true and it was found to be true like we cannot Nate we cannot put that in a tick-tock comment others think it's less about the legal charges and more about like what do we want our future to look like one person says the guy's intoxication does not automatically put them in the same position as the incapacitated woman because that's a huge argument everyone's like well everyone is on ketamine so everyone got raped because they're like why is only the woman allowed to say she was raped if she was high on ketamine when everyone's high on ketamine so is everyone raping everybody but one netizen with a little more nuance is saying the guy's intoxication doesn't automatically put them in the same position as the incapacitated woman if someone is capable of reading the invitation deciding to respond locating the room and deliberately performing a sexual act it's difficult to argue that he was simultaneously so incapacitated that he could bear no responsibility for that decision but then others have been pointing to a new recent leak this was in the title ix investigation as well but jane doe had reported that her phone was across like across the room in the alumni room and there's all these strangers she's naked in the bed she couldn't reach her phone she felt trapped she didn't her wallet her credit cards had been cancelled she she can't get an uber back to her sorority house she felt trapped in a den of lions is kind of how she describes it now there is this one text message around three in the morning where her roommate asks her if she's coming back to the sorority house and she writes idk so some people have been using this as she had her phone i don't know what kind of argument that is but they're saying like she was not held away from her phone she's not trapped she could have called 911 she could have called someone but again others are arguing that's exactly rape culture like rape culture is not just like haha we're gonna joke about rape it's also you don't really feel like you can call 911 because it's not a very clean cut i'm gonna tie you up and put a gun to your head one netizen comments i think too many men and lawyers and wannabe lawyers are focusing on will these men be convicted of rape as if it's the only thing that matters here it also matters that these guys had large quantities of drugs and alcohol and were freely giving it to underage people including a known date rape drug it also matters that they advertised that a woman was available as a sex toy for 50 other men this netizen says rape charge or not if it's legally viable or not quote i do care that our society finds a way to teach boys and men that any of this behavior makes you a horrible person who many rightfully are not if it's legally viable or not makes you a horrible person who many rightfully believe should get ostracized from society if you engage in it we need more policing of these behaviors in our society not less and it doesn't always have to involve the criminal justice system side note i will say that ketamine is sometimes used as a date rape drug but it's not perhaps it's not known to be a common one i think due to access but also many people tend to remember things that are happening to them but they are left physically unable i would say ketamine makes you physically vulnerable but mentally a lot of people are somewhat conscious like they have some sort of ability to recognize what's going on around them and in the room they can remember faces and they can remember things and even things that people are saying which makes people i guess um highly vulnerable to being reported so it's not like the go-to date rape drug because usually they don't want you to remember that i guess but also another thing to consider here is we don't even know if what jane took was ketamine all we know is that she was told it was ketamine but we don't even know if what jane took was ketamine all we know is that she was told it was ketamine but we don't even know if what jane took all we know is that she was told it was ketamine it could have been laced i mean other people took it so i'm not saying like they intentionally laced her even if it was laced i don't think it would have been intentional but it could have really been anything like there was no way to say that this is ketamine other than she was told it was ketamine which side note jane doe reports that at a previous gathering at kaifai she declined ketamine before so it seems like kaifai has a ketamine problem at cornell and she asked one of the accused how they knew the ketamine wasn't laced and you know it was something like fentanyl and he says that he got it from his plug who works in the cornell lab yeah i don't know who said this jane doe asked jane doe asked one of the redacted okay one of the seven it seems like one of the seven or somebody yeah she was at the kaifai house like a week prior so based off that some people have been making their speculations of who the redacted is right but she's like how do you know that she's like i've never done ketamine i'm not gonna do ketamine today but like how do you know it's not laced with fentanyl and they're like oh well i get it from my plug who works at the cornell lab like implying this is like a lab or they know how to test it or something but also in the alumni room in the recent videos that came out of the empty fraternity house there was a fentanyl drug test remember like a fentanyl test that was in that room oh yeah interesting so legally speaking i think ketamine is going to be important but i also think it's like been overblown like the way that some mainstream media news outlets have been talking about ketamine is like all over the place they're saying like oh they were throwing up they were so intoxicated from ketamine everyone was just out of it but then when it's jane doe it's like i mean it's ketamine so it's like which one is it and another thing that people have been debating is some people are just like oh my god i don't know they're saying like the guys are all high on ketamine not all but a lot of them are high on ketamine and they are so committed to this sexual activity they can't even get it up and they're so like dedicated they're fighting through the sedating effects of ketamine because ketamine lots of people report you just want to lay down you just want to lay down and kind of hang out there like you just want to lay there because it's kind of trippy and ketamine is also really hard be feeling a little good or you can be in a k-hole and it's just like it's hard to trace right it's hard to track where you're gonna end but they're fighting through it they're falling asleep waking up trying to do it again like what the hell is happening like they are clearly so dedicated to something what we don't know other people have been saying the whole energy with ketamine is weird like there has been a lot of like demonization talks of ketamine like oh my god i'm gonna die right but a lot of ketamine users are saying well it's not really like a date rape drug and one thing that they've been pointing out is typically when you do ketamine and you are giving ketamine to someone and you should never do this you should never do this because there is only like probably one legal way to do ketamine in the united states and you cannot give it to other people it has to be prescribed to you and it's like ketamine therapy right but they're saying like when you are in the ketamine community the biggest thing is like you want to know if it's ketamine because the first time someone does ketamine it's going to hit them so much harder than a regular kid those first time yes so like the ketamine community they're saying like these are very common things that people look out for people know people are like oh it's your first time doing ketamine they usually like try to help monitor you because it's it can be very trippy people can feel like their limbs are very heavy it's like a weird feeling they describe it as it's a psychedelic to some degree where you can sometimes see colors but also you're very alert so you're not like on shrooms typically where you're just like oh my gosh i don't know what reality is and like what's happening others say it's more of like a body experience some of it it hits them more in the body sense of they just want to lay down and they kind of feel spinning they feel a little nauseous others are saying it's weird because you can almost see yourself laying there but you can't really like move and you have awareness of what's happening to you and you can probably talk but you can't really like move and you have awareness of what's happening to you and you can probably talk but it's like this very specific feeling that you get which they think matches up with what a lot of jane doe is saying so all in all i think a lot of people who do regularly use ketamine or in the ketamine community which again i'm not endorsing the use of illegal substances unless you get them through a prescription in the legal sense but they're just saying like they side with jane doe in this because even if it's not a crime what these boys did giving her the ketamine knowing it's her first time and then still asking her to engage in these activities to pressure her to invite people to the room this is predatory whether it is predatory in the legal sense or not it is still predatory it's morally apprehensible i see they're saying this is gross this is disgusting like you would never do this but some firmly believe that jane doe is the perpetrator here they think that these seven accused having their identities out there and being spread before due process before they're even charged with the crime before this even went to a grand jury they say it's unfair whereas jane doe can remain anonymous which has created almost this weird twisted movement of people trying to find and dox jane doe which of course is not fair it's not fair it's not fair it's not fair many on social media have responded with the i am jane doe counter-reaction but it's not just social media i mean there are people there was that lady on the view the show the tv show the view and she says the picture of these young men who have not been charged not been adjudicated are being plastered all over the internet i think people are reporting this story inaccurately i think they're reporting it unfairly and while this is something that we have to take very seriously there's no way according to her statement in 2024 that any prosecutor would have brought forth this case i prosecuted sex crimes for 10 years i believe women i am not saying we shouldn't believe her but in 2024 she said one thing and now in 2026 she's saying another thing i don't know what the fuck is happening okay but there are so many like women in media who look like moms and a lot of them i had to google it too because i'm like are you a mom that is crazy you're saying stuff like this this is bizarre to me right but they're out here dragging jane doe and calling the defendants boys but you said she did say that she was raped in the report right in 2014 yes she said with 100 confidence she was raped i think the one part i guess if you want a nitpick is that the very first encounter but also people are saying maybe she started it saying she was okay with it but she did insinuate that she did not like the pain right but i guess some are arguing well she didn't say stop so there's a lot of debate but i think just um if you ever call if you ever find yourself calling fraternity brotherhood you're not going to be able to find out what the fuck is going on there's boys i would just pump the brakes just young men is even pushing it guys frat bros defendants the accused i don't know there's so many other ways to describe them right but like everyone can take a side everyone can have opinions but the minute that you say boys young boys after seeing those snapchat messages i don't know what's gonna what that is what she did walk back that statement later she walked it all the way back no oh yeah and i think one of her kids went to cornell or something is what i heard what do you mean by i heard is i didn't fact check it but what do you mean she walked it back she like went on this podcast and she was saying that yeah cynthia revo from um wicked phenomenal actress singer but she is working on a piece about consent i don't know if it's a movie or something that's in the works and she called her and was having a discussion and everyone's like this just feels like you're walking it back it doesn't feel like it just didn't feel genuine oh i see yeah interesting megan kelly megan kelly i mean what more can i say other than megan kelly right she scares me i gotta be careful with my wording like megan kelly was involved in a massive massive sexual assault sexual harassment case that she was one of the victims can i say victims i don't think she would like me calling her a victim anyway she has there's a whole history with megan kelly google it okay but she says in her little podcast in her big podcast and this woman who i'm just gonna go out on a limb and guess possibly isn't the most attractive girl on campus like i was listening to this i'm like what's happening right now why is she all of a sudden she's saying possibly just a complete random stab in the dark has some history that made her particularly vulnerable because i think most women i can tell you for a fact my daughter would never have herself in that position she's too strong in her ego she's too sound to ever make these decisions and i think possibly this young woman may have been compromised in her past there may have been some sort of insecurity there she does state that she thinks that many of the defendants are despicable and we're acting and behaving in morally filthy ways she does criticize many of the accused but she does not it seems her stance is that that is separate from it being a crime she believes that there are legal boxes that need to be checked and just because you do not morally agree with something does not mean that it is illegal i think is her stance from the very little time that i could spend watching her opinion on this case because i was very lost i don't know what compelled her to say that first part i don't know and i do think to some degree i think doxing anyone on all fronts is incorrect and illegal behavior anything illegal is probably i would not condone it however i think that some of this weird conversation about oh the boys the boys shouldn't be receiving this backlash when the case has not been adjudicated i think the boys are getting cancelled for their snapchat message and you play stupid games you win stupid prizes i don't think it's oh we have no proof we at least have the snapchat messages and like i do think they should be cancelled for that or whatever should they be fired from their jobs i would think so if i was their boss but i'm not because i think they work for like fucking wells fargo or something but i'd probably fire them i'd get trigger happy i'd fire everyone that's crazy so it's one thing to say hey i looked at jane doe's lawsuit and i think that these seven guys are guilty of heinous crimes and i'm going to treat them guilty as if they were charged and convicted of these heinous crimes in the court of law and then i'm going to dox their address that's one thing it's another thing to say hey i read her lawsuit i saw the snapchat and based off of what we've been seeing from the title night investigation that has been reported by mainstream media outlets i think that they should be shamed from society i think those are very different reactions and i think most people are on the ladder and i don't think we need to wait for court adjudication to jump onto that but right now this is an open investigation leticia james is working on it there it's probably going to go forth in front of a grand jury sometime soon but a lot of people are trying to get leticia james off of it including winston lee's attorney tennie garagos and another one of the accused because leticia james before she was assigned special prosecutor she had written on her facebook page and on twitter what this young woman has been forced to endure is horrific and unacceptable i'm holding her in my heart and in my prayers to her and all survivors you're not alone we stand with you and she's asked you know why did you affirm her allegations as fact without doing your own fact-finding investigation and leticia james says i'm not going to talk about a facebook post she's like i'm not going to comment on a facebook post which like exactly but also i will say the accused they didn't call out the da matthew van houten when he very clearly did not like jane doe but they were like that's fine he should reopen the case for sure whatever i mean they didn't say that but and the netizen comments have been very mixed one comment reads 9-1-1 what's your emergency i was robbed last night please can you send help and this is poking fun at matthew van houten and they say uh are you a lawyer how can you be sure that you were robbed that is a legal conclusion because um he was asked like why jane doe said she was raped and he said well i didn't see that but also that's a legal conclusion i remember so everyone's making fun of matthew van houten one netizen comments one point i've seen floating around that i strongly agree with is basically in response to men you need to ask yourselves why no one in the frat stood up for her and what you would have done it's a very fair question but one response is that many men would have responded correctly but that's exactly why they wouldn't be in a fraternity like that in the first place so these are like cesspools of just shitty people so of course they're going to do shitty things that's what they're alleging and they believe that's why a lot of colleges and universities should just altogether ban greek life they're not saying that you should ban academic fraternities because those have really good communities but these like greek life where it's just underage drinking and getting hazed is bizarre one netizen says colleges and universities have no business investigating or adjudicating sexual assault cases these cases in particular should be handled by trained law enforcement professionals rather than administrators who have been through training and workshops so they're saying like the title nine investigation is also asked one cornell student protesting at cornell says too often we are met with silence we are met with statements we are met with procedures but not enough support how much does it take our university to stand with survivors well didn't you tell me something about like the essay comes from cornell or yes so the term sexual harassment came from cornell allegedly it was like first used at cornell by one of the professors that terminology and was popularized yeah but you know cornell and much of these older ivy league institutions have a long history of sexual assault and harassment interesting wow but one person says from all these reporting and the cultural fallout my understanding is that a young boy who is inebriated is responsible for not only his own decisions but the decisions of young women in his company a young woman who is inebriated is responsible for not only his own decisions but none of her decisions so that's great cornell's board of trustees announced that the law firm king and spalding has been retained to conduct an investigation that will be led by the former deputy U.S. Attorney General Sally Yates. It's going to be an investigation, right? She served under the Obama administration and it's going to be an investigation into Cornell's handling of Jane Doe's allegations. But a lot of Cornell students just freaking hate it. They say, I mean, the difference in how Cornell treated protesters who were protesting genocide in Palestine versus how this case is unfolding is just insane. Like how those seven accused, a lot of people at Cornell during the time that this happened, didn't even know what was happening. One Cornell building had bright red graffiti writing on there at Cornell, rapists are protected, protesters are expelled. They also smashed a window there. That's the day hall building. That's where in the parking lot, remember? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But that's the center of Cornell's administrative function. So they were just like, we just wanted to make sure they can't do business as usual. And business was not as usual because in front of probably one of the worst cases in the history of the United States, there was a lot of people who were screen screens I've ever seen. There is President Kotlikoff of Cornell, and he is doing a statement. It is the mother of all statements. This is if you had AI write a statement about how to give a statement that means nothing, but it is a statement that is stating something in the statement. This is the statement. It's 10 minutes long. It's filled to the brim with what I like to call professional nothingness. Like we're just saying words. Hello, Cornelians, students, alumni, faculty, staff, yes. Okay. Include angry TikTokers as well, because everybody's pissed off, but no, he doesn't. This has been one of the most difficult weeks in our history. And I know many of you are angry, saddened, and struggling. And that those bonds are under extraordinary stress. He describes, quote, what happened to Jane Doe in 2024 is one, deeply disturbing. Two, something that will weigh on the community for years to come. Three, my heart aches. Four, it raises heartbreaking and aspects of party culture, alcohol, and drug use. And five, it raises questions around the investigations conducted after the allegations were reported. He gives the very almost textbook statement that they don't have all the answers, but they're committed to finding the answers and investigating, which like you already did that. So no thanks. There's also subtle shifting of responsibility that is, I guess it's not even subtle. He says, I believe we as an administration community must do better. Why we? What happened? You're the goddamn president. You're the one with the power. Why don't you start first? And then maybe everyone will follow after. He continues, we must do everything we can to prevent what happened to Jane Doe and everyone before her and everyone after her from ever happening again. He outlines a few vague things that the school will be working on, basically saying, we need to be the author of our own future as an institution at the appropriate time. We will not be the author of our own future as an institution. We will speak in greater detail about how Cornell will use this moment, this conversation, this anger to help lead the broader effort to combat sexual assault, not only on our campus, but beyond it. Well, don't get ahead of your horses here. Fix your own campus first. Like you don't have to be fucking superhero fixing everyone. Like it's just the statement makes me so upset. You have my commitment that this will not be a moment that passes. We will continue taking every step necessary to make. We are a Cornellan institution that leads not just in what we say about these issues, but in the work that we do to address them. This is a defining moment in Cornell's history. We must lead the way. We owe it to Jane Doe and to survivors of assault to get this right, and we must keep each other safe. What? Most of the accused and their attorneys have come out to say that they deny the allegations, that this is not what happened. Some of the attorneys have been a victim of assault. Some of the accused and their attorneys have been a victim of assault. Oh, yeah. And his attorney was like, yeah, this is what's happening. And this is crazy. And he says, you know, I told Jillio and his parents to expect this story is not going to end anytime soon. He says, let me say it this way, right? I don't want to take away from whatever Jane Doe's experience was. It was clearly very traumatic to her. We differ on whether it was consensual. We differ on what he saw, what he experienced and how long he was in the room. His attorney says, you know, plaintiff Jane Doe's counsel has masterfully manipulated the media narrative and the consequences are now very real. Mr. Lopes was publicly accosted and is being condemned before the evidence has been fully heard. Scott K's attorney states about the Snapchat messages, taking part in an offensive conversation is not the same as taking part in a rape, which like is valid. But we still hate you for taking part in offensive conversations. We can hate you for both, even if only one of them has been proven, you know. But he says, please let the process work before recklessly proliferating or coming to a wrongful conclusion about him. He states that he is confident that his client will be exonerated and that he will repair him. He further states, at bottom, Scott never sexually assaulted or even touched the plaintiff in any way, period. We look forward to confronting the plaintiff in the court of law for her selfishly false claims with both the evidence and her own words. He says, we welcome the opportunity and are so confident, overwhelmingly so, it will resolve in the same way it already did previously with no charges. He says that for his client, this is guilt by association, that something might have happened to Jane Doe, but it wasn't while his client was there. Scott Norris' attorney and team have released a statement saying, I did not participate in any sexual activity or drug use. I was not found responsible by Cornell for any of the accusations involving sexual activity and drug use for which others received serious consequences. I thoughtlessly engaged in a Snapchat and briefly stopped in a room where misconduct happened, but not when it happened. And it does seem like the two Scott's lawyers are a little more vocal than the others. And I do think that they are in a weirder area of, they're not being accused of engaging in sexual intercourse that Jane Doe claims she did not consent to. Right. And, you know, the ketamine coming back negative for at least one of them did, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it. But that is where I leave you with the Cornell 7 case. I, it was so hard to sift through all the information out there because it just got, it got very muddy. The opinions got muddy as well. What are your thoughts? Let me know in the comments below. And I'll see you in the next one.