Winners, Losers, and Manifestors of a Wild WNBA Weekend

This episode is brought to you by Major League Baseball. There is nowhere left to go. Two teams, one championship. Watch the World Series. Yeah, the World Series presented by Capital One on Fox and Fox One. No time like October. Visit mlb.com slash postseason to learn more. Welcome to the Ring of WNBA show. I'm Syrit Sohi, and I am joined today by one of my favorite people in the sports media world. Her name is Madeline Kenney. She covers the WNBA for the New York Post. If she asks you a question about your job security in a press conference, you should probably update your resume. She's fearless, she's smart. Yes, yes. Yeah, you bet. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Maddie, how are you? I'm good. I'm so excited. Long-time listener, first-time guest. I'm honored to be a part of today's show. I'm super excited to have you. So we are talking after what was a wild WNBA Friday. It is now Sunday, and this will go out on Monday, but both of the semifinal series ended on Friday. They both ended in sweeps. We have our matchup for the WNBA, the WNBA Finals. It will be the Atlanta Dream and the Golden State Valkyries. Two teams who have never won a title, the Atlanta Dream, have been there. They've actually never won a WNBA Finals game. And then, of course, the Golden State Valkyries are just in their second year. So I thought we could just. And we do have a lot to get into. You are, you know, the Liberty expert. So, you know, we'll be talking about maybe some people that are on the shopping plaza. Is there something going on there with that team? I know, yeah, yeah. What's going on with the Liberty? Yeah, yeah. We'll get to them in a bit, but we're going to do some winners and losers. This episode is presented by Walden University. Whether you're on the court or building your career, getting better takes work. That's why Walden University helps working professionals get the W with tempo learning so you can earn your degree at your own pace while gaining practical skills through real-world scenarios. You'll also learn from faculty, with real-world experience, and have support start to finish. Walden University. Set a course for change. Ready to start? Visit waldenu.edu today. Certified to operate by Chev. Tempo learning available in select programs. Since it's your first time on the pod, I feel like, you know what? I should just, I should open things up to you to start. Who is your first winner or loser? You can start with the loser if you want. I think I kind of want to start with the loser. Great. And I feel like we should just, jump right in with anyone who trusts Kevin Fahey and like WNBA officiating. Let's just rip it right off. Rip the bandaid. Let's do it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Just because, you know, that was probably one of the biggest late game blunders I've witnessed. You know, for those that don't know, in game two, the Liberty, it was in overtime. They didn't realize they had a reset timeout. And, you know, that would mean they could advance the ball. And not to say that that would guarantee you, that, you know, somebody would make the three point shots force double overtime, but it puts you in a way more or a way better position to get a shot off. And, um, so the Liberty don't do that. They find out Stewie says that she asked Kevin Fahey and another official, they were told they didn't have a reset timeout, Sabrina. She kind of switched up her story and said that she was told no by one rep and yes, by another, but she was kind of already in a place where, you know, she just had that turnover. And I just don't think she. She was in a place where she maybe felt confident to, you know, question anything at that point. Um, and so ended up not using the reset timeout. They find out they have one. And then all of the drama that unfolded afterwards, the pool report where, um, kind of painted Brianna Stewart to be this liar or have her, it conflicted her story. And then, um, you know, Stewie, just the ultimate pro in the way that she handled it and didn't want to dwell on it. And she just didn't acknowledge that it was disappointing that her integrity was questioned. And she was moving along to game three. So I, I think that, that whole snafu was a big loser situation. Because why does the coaching staff not know that there is somebody on that bench whose responsibility is to know that. Yeah. His name is Chris DeMarco. Um, we will talk about very soon, but first of all, thank God for, uh, the footage as well, which like reveals a full conversation. Where they, the refs get it wrong. Um, and then we're, so were you the pool reporter in that? It was ESPN, ESPN's Alexa. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Um, yeah, it took them two hours to open up the official locker room so she could ask those questions, which just tells you that they were trying to get their story straight. And this was the best they could come up with, which is outright lying. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Go on the record and say that. Yeah. They, um, this, this refereeing crisis, honestly, coming at, coming at this moment. Um, I don't know. It's all just part and parcel to me of every reason that WNBA reffing sucks. Like there's no accountability. There's no transparency. The ability to communicate, um, with players, I think is something that the players have had an issue with for a long time. I think that the refs are very quick to react. Um, they are quick to get defensive. They have issues with even, you know, I think you see sometimes like you'll have refereeing interactions in other leagues where the ref will be like, you know, like, oh, you know what? Like, yeah, I checked it over at the half and I, and I got it wrong. And obviously like that, it's sort of in the same ilk of like having a last two minute report where you're like, okay, what can you even do about it now? But I do think in the long run, gestures like that, all of like, just sort of all the branches like that do go a long way. Um, and just acknowledging when you're wrong, you know, like that's what the last two minute report is about. It's about accountability, like public accountability of, Hey, we got this right. We got this wrong. Exactly. I do have a way in which I think that the WNBA can turn this into a sneaky win though. Okay, tell me. Well, it's just never waste a good crisis, right? Um, this was so abominably bad. Um, and the way that it was handled just like reveals that the process. By which the WNBA handles its transparency and its accountability is broken, which is something that I think people have reported on time and time again. Um, a lot of WNBA reporting kind of tends to go by the wayside because the league just ignores it until a fever pitch of critique, uh, you know, just, just, just reaches kind of a boiling point where they have to address something. And then they're like, okay, cool. We'll, we'll make a task force about it. Um, and reffing has gone. Slightly better, I think. Well, well, at least like the intentions of reffing have changed. I don't think the consistency of it has changed. I've seen, I've actually been making like an active document of all of the horrible refereeing decisions that have been made that, that have like swung playoff games. And there's no team that hasn't been impacted by, by this. I won't debut it today, but it is like, I'll put, maybe I'll wait until after the finals, but it's, it's pretty rough. Um, and like, I think if you're Adam Silver, you're obviously choosing a new commissioner. You want to be changing the culture of the WNBA. Um, get real with an internal investigation, like go Steve Ballmer on it, find the bodies, leak things to reporters, unearth the crisis, be public about it so that you can actually start justifying firing everybody or demoting everybody or just defanging the amount of power and influence that they have, um, in order to actually start to clean up this culture. And, and institute something new because like reffing is something where I think, I think like the culture around refereeing, like in the workplace is always something that's going to be a little bit more defensive and protective than other places. Naturally, for a lot of reasons, nobody likes referees. It's a very thankless job. Um, but at the same time, like the W is now cross this threshold where it's just unacceptable. Um, and has been for a long time. So I feel like they should intend to intentionally put out everything that weren't wrong. And obviously there's a level of which I'm not an unbiased observer. I'm like, yeah, guys leak things, but I do just give it to me, give it to me in particular. Um, I think, uh, yeah, cause I've been doing this for three years and like, I have earned a huge scoop. Don't give it to Maddie Kenny, who has been doing this for much longer and has been in the trenches. Um, so yeah, I think it's, I just, I think this is a great opportunity. I think, I think honestly kind of similar to the Krista Marco situation. It's like sometimes when a, when a screw up is so loud, it actually, it can, it can, um, give power to the people who actually want to bring out some change. Totally. And I would just say like refereeing in a lot of ways is like journalism. Like as a reporter, you never want to become the story. And like, if you are, you somehow find a way to become the story. That's That's not good for anybody. and the officiating while it has they've taken steps forward I think there's plenty of room for improvement I think getting the replay center is going to do wonders making sure all the arenas are wired with the stuff so they can you know utilize it is going to make a difference like those are all tangible steps in the right direction but I think that they need to just be more transparent about the way that they do review these types of situations because teams are submitting clips and in moments after every single game and we just we never hear about it we never know what comes of those conversations they don't hear about it you ask they don't either yeah like they don't get responses like forget us yeah I mean and that's the whole thing too is it's you know this should be like a constant conversation and I'm always going to root for transparency I think that that's the best way to hold powers at be accountable and so that's the best way to hold power at be accountable and so that's the best way to hold power at be accountable for this too I don't want to throw it all on Kevin it's definitely the Liberty's responsibility to know how many timeouts they have well should we move on to the second loser I mean I feel like we should go like positive but like if we're already here we might as well just pick up there let's just get it over with yeah yeah yeah um yeah Liberty coaching staff particularly Chris Tabarco um you know I think heading in he knew that the challenge was you need to get out of that first round you need to get out of that first round you need to get out to you know feel good especially after Sandy was fired for a year ago um a year removed from winning a championship and so they get out of the first round vibes are good people are feeling really good and then just to get absolutely outmatched out strategized out done by the dream and such demolished yeah demolish is probably the best word to use um makes it just his seat is so hot right now um and there's plenty of fair questions about where the Liberty go from here and then you have that blunder late in game two that that's just that's a rookie mistake right like you have to know how many timeouts you have you have to know you have an opportunity to advance the ball and I think that there's frustration and the in the thing that really was jumped out to me in that post-game press conference with the players in particular was a year ago in Phoenix when I asked um about what they would say to anyone who questioned whether Sandy should be back this year I got so many what the WTF what are you talking about well literally the look on Stewie's face became a meme yeah like you know and and everyone stood like 10 toes down for their coach and this year it just was not the same energy it was uh you know we're I think Sabrina said that she's thankful for the job he's done but it was a lot of not our decision it is what it is and even like Leonie Feebich said well they're good people and usually if you have to start with they're good people and not you're not talking about the job at hand yeah it's probably not a great sign no what did you make of Brianna Stewart's answer um I thought it was very interesting like I think she really did a great job of dissecting all of New York's problems throughout the course of the year uh to me it seemed like a lot of it came down to preparation but it was a really long and fast fascinating answer and one of those things that I think like when you're in position of covering this team like I imagine that there were a lot of different things that you were parsing out of it yeah I mean I think that anytime a team has to come out of its way and tell you how connected they are that probably means they're not as connected behind the scenes as they're trying to put out and so I think just you know a team can get along together out off the court right but the way that you show up for one another the way that you play for one another um the way you want to like you know put in that extra effort because of the person sitting across from you or whatever it just felt like there was something missing and like maybe this group wasn't as together as it could have been you know um I think chemistry wise uh they that was like an area like the connectiveness um it just it just felt like yeah like maybe they weren't fully prepared maybe they and and everyone talked about like you know the turnovers are going to be a huge problem heading into the semi-finals and then they turn the ball over what 21 times and in the in the third quarter they're running the same play dribbling right into traffic and getting the ball snatched right out of their hands and even JJ after that game said she didn't want to point fingers but at some point she was like I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know you gotta you have to make a play call that's gonna allow the team to get into a rhythm and a flow so yeah yeah that's that's some of the stuff that I feel like I had picked up on over the last I feel like it definitely came to light over the last like three years astonished astonished by how few adjustments were made throughout the course of the series on both ends um especially with the amount of time that Sabrina spent guarding Ryan Howard that was a bad idea from the jump it set her up for failure um I couldn't count the amount of times that she got back cut in game three she's not it's just you don't have the facilities for that also there was some ball watching going on at the same time but to your point I think you know they're kind of ready to go home um I think the only thing that fired them up was Angel Reese at one point and like you're just you're setting you're you continually are setting your team up for failure in that spot where she is going to get beat off the dribble you try to bring in help they're going to spray out to their three-point shooters you're also then in scramble mode it allows their offensive rebounding which is already incredible they win the possession battle by 20 in game one it's lower in game three but it's it's like seven in a close game that matters a ton and that's the entire series and that was the story in game one and if that's the story in game one and it's still the story in game three then yeah we have a coaching problem especially when you have Stewie you have Leone you have these players that can try to guard those players one-on-one um and ultimately like for me game three was over the second that Ryan Howard came out and she was hitting her threes because it was like oh you're doing the exact same coverage and she was actually cold before it wasn't even like it was really working that well on her um because she despite like the shooting numbers I thought had a great series um it just didn't it didn't make any sense to me uh it was yeah it was it was and and this is this is a guy that was brought in for his tactical know-how that's like Jonathan Kolb got up in that press conference when he introduced Chris and he said that it was like the tactical test um that really pushed him over the other candidates so it's just really befuddling yeah and I mean we were talking about the the backdoor cuts after game one and two in Atlanta like I distinctly remember Leone Fibich being asked about it and it just yeah it just felt like the Liberty were woefully unprepared and it you could just see it on their faces at times and the frustration that like kind of boiled over and and the person that I feel bad about the most is Brianna Stewart because of the year that she had she had been so phenomenal all season I would argue that she deserved more uh MVP votes for like their second vote you know um and she's healthy all year she put this team on her back time and time again and it just it didn't come together for for the team and you know she was talking after the podium you know she did a walk and talk and was kind of talking about like you just don't take these years for granted and I think that's what like pissed her off the most about this situation and so it was a it was a gutsy move to fire Sandy I'm not saying that it was a bad decision because there was a breakdown um it was a hard decision to make I think it was a hard decision to make I think it was a hard decision but fire was the problem it wasn't the fire yeah and the thing is is that like he knew he had to nail this higher Jonathan Kolb that is like he said in his press conference we had to nail this higher and I can I don't think they nailed it no no that's certainly not um and Stewie yeah 32 years old three-time champion was the second best player in the league all season long like it looked like this like clash between Asia Wilson and and Stewie two all-time GOATs who've like defined this generation of basketball these franchises that have defined this generation of the WNBA and ultimately what you get is is really interesting honestly I think like this this year could be like a really interesting flashpoint in team building um in the WNBA because instead of these two teams that have big threes uh you had big threes are definitely a loser by the way big threes are incredible yeah definitely unless you're a defensive player you're definitely a defensive big three I guess the Atlanta dream big threes is obviously feeling pretty good about themselves right now uh but you know you but instead you get these teams that like win with depth and defense and dirty work and and rebounding and like winning the possession battle um I I'm I'm really curious how like yeah a how like the Liberty approach the offseason um obviously there's a lot of questions right now about will they trade one of the big three there's a lot of like kind of speculation about whether they'll trade Sabrina UNESCO um but I also just wonder if this finals like overall being the matchup will change the calculus for a lot of teams. Totally. I mean, when you look at the Valkyries and the way that they built that roster, they don't have a true top five, top 10 play, like top, I don't know where you put, you would put Gabby, you know, heading into this year, I don't think I would have her in my top 15 after the way that she's played. Maybe she rises a little bit more, but they don't have that like true generational superstar, right? And it's just a team of full of role players who, they, they're like work well together. It's about teamwork. It's about chemistry. It's about, you know, just distributing the workload and they do a really good job at like, they kind of come at you in waves. You know, if one person doesn't have an off night or has an off night, that's okay because this person's going to step up. And, you know, it's just been really impressive the way that they are so balanced from top to bottom. Like I didn't see Caitlin Chen having the success that she's had in the past. In the WNBA when I watched her at UConn. And that's no disrespect. It's just, you know. No, it's a credit to their development and scouting. Exactly. Exactly. And the way that they invest in their players. And so I think you're right. You know, the Liberty are a team that have been star chasing. And, you know, the Saw II edition didn't work out, unfortunately, because of injuries. She has another year left on her contract. It'll be interesting to see what they do, whether they plan to bring her back, try to trade her. You know, we haven't had an opportunity to talk to her since before she got back from a concussion in late June. And so, but I agree with you. I think that, you know, it'll be interesting now if the Valkyries, now that they have probably a little bit more leverage in free agency, if they do attract, you know, that star talent and what that does for the team and the franchise. And how much they want to do that as well will be a really interesting conversation. And what types of stars are they going to be interested in? Like, my sense is that they'll go hard after Nafisa Collier and Kelsey. I'll try to get them both because those are two players that wouldn't, like, compromise the integrity of what they're trying to do. But also, man, it's like, if this team wins the finals, then I think you maybe start thinking a little differently about the chemistry that you have. Do you want to potentially sabotage that? Because one thing that I think is also interesting about New York and a little bit kind of unique to the WNBA, like, New York kind of, I don't know, like, when I'm around, I just get the sense that they operate a little bit more like an NBA team. Like, the locker room and stuff. Like, you know, everybody's kind of got their, like, everyone's a walking brand and they've got their own sort of silos, right? And you can, it's not that you can't be a walking brand and still have, like, a together locker room, but it does create complications. At the same time, look, Atlanta is doing that. Atlanta is basically winning on the power of friendship right now. Like, JC, Ryan, and Angel are, like, super close, always have been close. This is the playoffs of friendship. It really is the playoffs of friendship, right? And, like, Ryan and Alicia have been, like, recruiters by virtue of just, like, speaking the gospel of how great it is to play in Atlanta, too. Like, players like Brittany Griner and, like, Bree Jones and then Angel Reese as well, which, like, makes her want to engineer a trade over there. But it can, it does make things more complicated. It can make things more complicated. Like, it complicated the Krista Marko hire, right? Like, Krista Marko's a Sabrina guy. And, you know, JJ kind of had, like, the connect a little bit. But, like, this was, you know, pretty widely understood to be, like, a Sabrina Unescu hire. Maybe Brianna Stewart comes out as a sneaky winner. I feel like she should be able to get some power back in the franchise after the year that she's had. I mean, there was multiple questions. And I even, in one of my questions, like, put it to her, like, you are a star in this franchise. Your voice matters. It, you know, like, how are you going to use it? You know, she was not roped into the hiring process this last time. And I think that that was something that, moving forward, the Liberty really have to reconsider. And I like how you said, stars should always be involved in major conversations like that. But I like what you said about how they operate like an NBA team. Because that's exactly what I was trying to get at when I was talking about the connectedness of this team is that they, I'm not going to say they're friends, but they're, they're like colleagues. Like, you go to work with, right? And they're professionals. And that's like what a lot of teams, how they operate. But sometimes the teams that run off of good vibes and friendship do have this extra level of togetherness and fight and wanting to play, you know, harder for the person next to you because you love them more than just a teammate. You know what I mean? And so I think that's like, the Liberty were lacking a few things and it was that. Just not having a player that plays with that edge. They don't really have a true, for lack of better term, dog on their team. They miss Kayla Thornton so much. Yeah. And I think Satu could have been that for them, but obviously unfortunate because of her injury. I know, I completely agree with you. It is interesting that they have actually bled some of the more winning talent on their team. Like Nobunaga, Nyara Sabli, they lose. They lose, obviously, Kayla Thornton, like you mentioned as well. Like, they lost. They lost a lot of their dogs, for sure. And they tried to make them up with like one fell swoop in Satu Sabli, which doesn't always work, you know? Especially with, I just think like, there's going to be have to be recalculations with like the season being 44 games this season, then 50 games like coming up as well. Like, I just, I think the nature of like roster builds is just going to have to change. And it is a flashpoint moment, in my opinion. Like, we talked about Gabi and like where she kind of stands in WNBA history. I think even like the most sort of like generous read of her. She's not a top 10 player of all time. Last 17 finals have been won by top 10 players of all time. That's probably not going to happen this time around. You know, like that's, it's so like, it is, it is, it is a different sort of finals. I'm going to do a winner. Let's get, let's bring some good vibes in here. Yeah, yeah. Let's get some good vibes. Sorry, I started on like the. No, it's good. We got it out of the way. Dan Padover's team. Dan Padover, the GM of the Atlanta Dream, should be giving himself and his own, and his front office like every pat on the back. Also, another winner that I had in this was Manifestation. And I didn't think about Dan Padover when I was originally thinking about Manifestation. I was thinking about Angel Reese tweeting about how she is manifesting the finals. She tweeted it 364 days before the day she actually made the finals. And then Joe Lacob saying that we want the Valkyries to be a title-winning team in five years. They're going to the WNBA finals in two years. But Dan Padover also, when he was hired in 2021, the Atlanta Dream had a five-year plan to title contention. And he was hired, he was hired in October, 2021. So exactly five years after they make the WNBA finals. And really quickly, I just want to go through like the year by year. So he gets hired, first moves, he makes 2022 draft, drafts Ryan Howard, makes one of the better second-round picks ever in Naz Hillman. 2023, they trade for Alicia Gray for the number three pick in their draft, which becomes Maddie Segrist, who Dallas is probably going to lose this offseason. And a 2025 first-round pick that I think became Isaiah James. For Alicia Gray, that's an incredible trade. I think we're going to look back at that and realize that was one of the best trades in WNBA history. 2024, they trade. So, Aerie McDonald, number eight pick for Jordan Canada, and the number 12 pick. Aerie is no longer with the Sparks. Jordan Canada just had a 19-point tennis zero turnover game. Jordan Canada has been a freaking dog. Like talk about a team that has dogs. Like they have dogs on dogs. Like it's incredible. But you know, she brought, she brings a championship experience. She has been an incredible tone setter for this team. Like just being their point of attack defender. She's been awesome. 2025, this is like, I don't know, like, I don't know. Like they're coming out party, huge off-season. They make their biggest free agency signings yet with this regime, with Brittany Griner and Bree Jones. Ironically, both of them who aren't playing in this, in this, like Brittany Griner is now with Houston and Bree Jones has been injured just about all this, like this entire season. But they make a really important move. They hire Carl Smesko and he brings Smesko ball to Atlanta. That's three-point shooting. It's offensive rebounding. It's playing with pace. It's trying to create turnovers. It's winning the possession battle. And then 2026, Angel Reese becomes available. And I asked, I asked Smesko about this, like kind of when they got her, like, did they kind of realize like, oh, we have Angel Reese, like we have Angel Reese now, who is the best offensive rebounder of all time. Her style of defense creates a ton, of deflections and they also call it, they have such like funny terms for all their stats. I'll talk about that more in a different podcast, but the way that Carl Smesko like communicates stats to the players is really like detailed and also like accessible as well. Like he will always talk about how the team that wins a jump ball has like a 3% better chance of winning the game because they get like one extra possession than the other team. Like it's so, he's such an interesting, quirky, like yeah like, I love the odd couple relationship with him and Angel Reese. Like he's kind of like the introvert who like found a way to unlock her and she's like outgoing and extroverted. They have like a handshake. I think, I think they're just such a fun, like odd couple pairing. That's such a great way of putting it. Like, I love that there's that like video of, you know, her, I think like warming up and shooting and he's just standing next to her, like going through the form with her. And it's like, belly's kind of hanging out of his shirt a little bit. He's her shooting coach. Yeah. Which is so rare for a head coach to actually be like her shooting coach. Like he's the one who shows like his willingness to like really invest in his players and like be a part of the process, you know, like he's not just delegating responsibility, like he's in the trenches. Yeah. And that's what Angel said was like a big part of how she came to trust him. It's like, he's, he said what he was going to do and then he did it. And he also talked to her about, Hey, like when you, when we started, when you start reworking your form, which is completely different than it was a season ago. And we, and you start taking these threes, you're going to miss them and you need to get ready to miss them. And there was actually a practice where like she wouldn't shoot. So he stopped the practice and he put her at the three point line. And he said, we're not starting the practice again until you hit two threes. And the entire point of it was that like, he wanted her to go through the feeling of having to like publicly do something that she was going to be bad at for a while in front of her teammates and her teammates are cheering her on, which is obviously like, I think that creates like a bedrock of confidence for you to, to be able to like, just publicly go through a process like that, especially when you're Angel Reese and you know, you're going to get clip farmed every time you like miss anything. Right. So like there was like, she wanted it to happen fast. And, and, and he was like, look, it's going to happen slow and you're going to miss a pissed at him for making him making her do it at the time but she understood why and then she goes from like shooting 19 in the regular in the regular season to 39 and they're also i think they're like 13 and 0 this season when angel reese makes a three um but his his work with her and his ability to like unlock like the best parts of what she's able to do as far as like she's a she's just someone who's going to create extra possessions for you when you're on the court um it's it's just it's just a fact of of what we know about angel reese and her getting paired with the one guy in the league who completely understands how important that is um is is just a great story it's just a perfect combination and and i love the like edge she plays with and the confidence that she plays with and she hit several threes in the series against the the liberty and just you know some of them she did hesitate a little bit before she took it but it's like jj's gonna stag that far off of you like you might as well take it right and so that was another thing that i thought they would have like maybe thought about like making the adjustment because when angel starts to get downhill like that momentum is hard to stop and so you know angel just her development and the way that she is playing this season is remarkable and i think that we like we all knew that she was going to be a great rebounder and stuff but the evolution of her game and like it just this is year three for her think about her in year six like how much better she's gonna be like that's so exciting to think about and then she's in a great situation that is you know allowing her to thrive and i think that's the best thing for her is that you know chicago didn't have the infrastructure and the resources to allow her to become the true star that she is becoming now and atlanta's like given up on her and she's like given her that space yeah you can tell she just feels safe there too like she feels so much more comfortable i feel like with just displaying her personality and stuff too like i remember when she was with chicago and i get that our interactions with with players are limited but you know i think that she was very you know defensive in press conferences or just like kind of like didn't want to say anything you know and now she's like really letting her personality show like she knows that the team has her back she knows that the city has her back she knows that um her coach has her back she knows that the team has her back she knows that the city has her back um and it's kind of allowing us to get like the full range of the angel reese experience too like game three was so fun because of her honestly like she was the one who who who juiced she got the arena going as well like there was it was when when sabrina kind of just like broke izzy borlase on a screen angel reese runs up to her and she's like don't i'm just lip reading but she's like don't do that don't do that don't do that she's getting in her face um the crowd is booing her um at this point at for the rest of the game anytime the announcer says says her name um she's like feeding off of it like you know like she's up she's going up to the free throw line and she's telling the crowd to simmer down yeah that was awesome she got like face to chest to chest with jonko jones and like yes jj is not somebody that has a lot of like she doesn't play with that you know uh type of style you know she really shows her emotions like that but she got that out of jj the trash talker and she's like oh my god she's like oh my god she's like oh my god she's talking everything um the way she's like pointing at the bench when she hits those threes like yes it just it makes for such a fun like watch if you're a man to just like appreciate this type of i love a player who's gonna if they talk their you know what yeah but they can also back it up that's yeah those are my favorite players i love that it's so fun i loved um like she obviously flopped on stewie and then she's just cheesing at the camera after because she knows she got her just like just just totally trolling her it was so funny yeah um and then you know the crowd is gonna hate that too but she like she's not impacted by it you know i think she like to your point she feeds on it totally yeah exactly yeah super fun um what's uh what's your winner um i think i wanted to talk about like the the depth of these two teams um which we kind of mentioned you know the valkyries were so fresh for the playoffs because they allowed their players that wouldn't play it in the world cup like games off and stuff like that and so i think we're really seeing it but for atlanta in particular you know heading into the series against the liberty i thought the liberty had the edge on the when it came to bench because you know you have like the the becks coming off the bench and stuff and it was kind of like for atlanta it's like who do you have other than duana bonner and then like you lose you lose the bench and you lose the bench alicia alicia gray and it was like oh this might be the like thing that's going to push them to the breaking point right and then you know you have izzy come up she's in such a crazy way like did not have that on my bingo card um you know pow pow like there's so many players that just kind of like come in and they might not even play major minutes but they play enough and when they're in they know what they're doing they're not making mistakes you know um because part of the role as a whether those minutes when the starters are sitting and i think like that's something that really impressed me with atlanta what was was chris not starting like trusting his bench at all by the way that was really interesting because also marine fatuks did not play that much like she had a few moments throughout the like regular season where she might have like i remember one game in particular i think it was in dallas where she really popped off and it was like kind of her breakout but the rotation which always usually tightens in the playoffs it seemed like especially in this series you know i thought we would see maybe more han moments or yeah especially with the amount of size amount of size and yeah you know her ability to she's not like necessarily the greatest shot blocker but but by size alone she can do that right um i thought we would see more of her uh the second half of game three like they they ran the starters with marine and that was about it um very interesting we didn't really get an opportunity to ask him about that decision there's just so many other things going on it's always hard yeah it's always hard when like the teams decide not to do exit interviews because not only is a team like reeling from their season just coming to the end and then it's like you have to ask so what are your plans for next season are you going to be a free agent you're going to be a free agent where do you want to come back or do you want to do this or what do you think about the coach and his job security so yeah awkward oh yeah very awkward uh brianna stewart averaged 39.9 minutes in five games of the playoffs that's great so that's that's not good i didn't want it's just not sustainable no of course not like that just it can't work especially after the workload that she had in the 44 game season it just it's it's not you know like at a certain point players wanted to guess like you know even even the aces like the aces big three van of gas as well um i didn't want to circle back for a like it reminded me of something that like ryan was talking about with their like locker room and angel was talking about too it's like they're very intense like i think the atlanta dream like in in practices and stuff like one thing that they're good at doing is like separating the tone of the message from like the actual content of the message and it allows them to hold each other accountable but they're always like they're just players that like have that level of like perpetual intensity and like the thing i just kept feeling about the liberty is like like they just look small like they just look small and they don't want like they don't like they don't like that that's kind of what it took for them to like really like come together for a moment and like have each other's backs um but that's really you know that's it um that's that was like the only moment in the entire series where i really like felt like oh okay like like you guys might actually uh be together um Angel Reese trade best trade in WNBA history at this point I mean it's up there right if they win a title this year then yes for sure yeah I'm trying to think of like some other ones like the sky always seemed to be the team that's on the losing end of these like monumental trades you know Elena Deledon uh to to Washington where she obviously wins a title in 2019 I think it was you have Sylvia Fowles wanted out goes also yeah like it just seems like the sky the sky are always at the losing end of those conversations they trade for Marina Mabry which was a really bad trade which ended up being the reason that they needed to make um the trade that allowed them to get Angel Reese and if they hadn't made that trade they could have had Olivia Miles um they don't have either of those three players now uh for Angel Reese for a 2027 first round pick and a 2028 first round pick for the dream um is incredible here's what I keep thinking about the dream are oh wait never mind that's oh yeah okay and then they also got a pick swap out of it as well but look the dream are gonna be really good for a long time and expansion is gonna dilute like the back end of the first round as well like those picks just don't have a lot of time to play so I don't think it's gonna be probably aren't gonna matter unless you scout well which Chicago does which dare I say is a reason to you know not trade so many picks for players historically you should maybe lean into your strengths anyway don't have to talk about Chicago too too much uh they've been out of the conversation for the last like three weeks so yeah Jeff Pagliacca is definitely um one of the losers of the WNBA season um all right give me one of your give me another loser another loser loser I have written down the phrase they don't have enough playoff experience because heading into both um both semi-finals games that was the conversation right it was like the Liberty have so much more experience their core four players of Leo Brianna Sabrina JJ they've won a title together gone to two uh or the big three had gone to two finals um like experience matters at this stage is what everyone's like I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know what everyone always says right and say you know we are also know obviously know what the aces have done in recent history and the Valkyries it's kind of like both teams kind of like the Valkyries and Dream it felt like they were playing with house money the Dream just really wanted to get out that first round and shake off that like you know dare I say curse of this team is never going to get out of the first round again and the Valkyries you win your first playoff game and then you win your first playoff series and it just feels like they're on the same page they're on the same page they're ahead of schedule I mean it's incredible the fact that they're in the finals in their second year of existence and so heading it that was a big storyline heading into the semi-finals is that experience really mattered and you know obviously we have to acknowledge that like Kayla Thornton has won a championship with New York and she's with the Valkyries and Doana Bonner you know two-time champion and so there is and Jordan Canada too can't forget about her um with she won two titles with Seattle like they had some experience but they hadn't had experience with all together doing it and I feel like that was the difference but turns out that it didn't matter because those two teams flamed out honestly Kayla Thornton is maybe one of the biggest winners actually like she wins a title with the Liberty gets off the ship right at the moment when perfect time like exactly perfect timing to leave um she then goes to this expansion franchise she's probably thinking oh my god like I living in New York and just became a champion and now I'm getting shipped off to this brand new franchise she becomes an all-star in her first year then she honestly like has she then she gets injured and it's like like one of the tragic like Valkyries injuries but it also allows them to like go into their depth and like tap into players that are now helping them and then she struggles this year just kind of recovering but now she's playing some of the best basketball that she's played all all year long and she's been huge from that for them on the defensive end too uh yeah that's like Kayla Thornton like every Valkyrie is kind of like a secret like they're they're all winners like they're going to the finals but like they all have like these like interesting hinge points where they ended up being a lot better off developmentally and for their careers because they ended up going to the Valkyries like Veronica Burton gets cut by the Dallas Wings who I'm realizing are actually maybe a loser here too they traded Alicia Gray in what is definitely going to rank as one of the worst trades on their end of it and they also cut Veronica Burton um Kayla Charles was someone that they cut who I thought was actually really good for them a lot like last year as well and she's she's doing great um for the Valkyries but yeah Veronica Burton huge winner like cut from cut to the WNBA finals and hitting like the biggest shot was that the biggest shot in Valkyries franchise history the the three yeah I would say so it's like a we're going back only two years but I would say so for sure so true yeah it is incredible just to think about like them potentially winning the WNBA finals and hitting like the biggest shot in the eventually winning a title in year two and they all have like this little like chip on their shoulder right like you know Kayla Thornton getting picked up in the expansion draft like that was she you know hard nobody thought that she was going to be I mean when you did the math you realized who was going to be left exposed obviously but like it's a tough pill to swallow and then you know Veronica Burton like everything she had gone through Gabby has had this crazy career arc too when you think about going back to Chicago the year that you know she didn't get a play in the WNBA because they like suspended her contract when she was in France and so like you know all these players it's kind of like this like mismatch of you know whether they were like doubted or or scorned or like treated wrong or or whatever it might be they all come together and they're yeah here they are on they're competing for a championship and like yeah Kia Stokes played one possession in the WNBA finals last year I believe it was a very important possession where she played great defense on a switch and I can't remember who the three-point shooter was maybe it was saw too but um she blocks a three at the end of a game but now she's like playing real minutes and she's one of their most important contributors she's like Nikias Duncan calls her the permanent defensive player of the year which I think is a great way to put it like um and now with the amount of minutes that she's she's playing like honestly like you got you have to play a lot of minutes and you have to play a lot of minutes and you have to actually will have like two of the best defensive players in the league actually playing like real minutes in in the finals like Angel Reese wins defensive player of the year Gabby Williams was a defensive player of the year candidate Kia Stokes a defensive player of the year of of the year candidate um as well uh it gets to you know what was one of your winners underdogs yeah I forgot about my underdogs yeah that it was one of my winners looping back to that one yeah no I mean but seriously like again all these teams both teams were kind of playing with house money in the semi-finals they didn't just win they swept these teams like I did not I don't know if anyone saw that coming nobody saw that coming no one saw nobody if you did you have like special powers nobody saw that coming like I think the dream matched up well against the liberty I think most people pick the dream against the liberty nobody picked them I don't even think anybody like not anybody but most people didn't pick the to beat the aces let alone sweep them like the aces dominated them in the regular season yeah and Wilson and everything she's done in the postseason and so yeah it just the fact that they have come up so big and you know whoever wins this championship I think you said it at the top like it's gonna be the first time in franchise history this is gonna be a historic like you know championship regardless of who wins and I think like it just kind of makes the storyline even more fun it's kind of fun to not have the team that always wins it in it you know like I just think back to like I remember when we were talking about like LeBron and Steph go back and forth like it just got to a point where it's like seen this show before right right like it's kind of fun that it's two new teams and like several players that have not won championships yet like all have an opportunity to go out and get a ring two great fan bases too like I'm just really excited for that aspect of it um this brings me to one of my winners which is just analytics in general um which I mean that sounds that sounds like weird like how does that connect but um here's what else I've been thinking about um I think that the way that these two coaches Natalie Nakasi and Carl Smesko manipulate the game and again talking about the possession battle they both do it in a different way like and I think that's what's going to make this tactically a very interesting series um the Valkyries play with no pace um they have the lowest pace in the league and they have the lowest turnover percentage in the league they really really value possessions um they'll even play like isolation basketball just for the sake of valuing possessions like they would much rather do that like get off some shot and make a risky pass at the end of the shot clock that gives somebody else transition points um and then we talked about how Smesko values possessions these are both like great offensive rebounding teams as well and I feel like it's changing the meaning of being clutch and maybe down the line it changes the value of having that like mythical superstar that can rise up to the moment because when you play like this you get more opportunities like your margin for error is just so much higher on the offensive end like as much as we talked about like Gabby's Gabby Williams and her her growth in the clutch and she did hit like incredible mid-range jumper she like has had moments but the way that these two teams play like it flattens the importance of like the singular moments where like the person stepped up and it was either they make the bucket or they or they lose the game because now someone just rebounds it and then they get another shot at it like like the amount of the amount of times that they create extra opportunities for for for themselves um um it's kind of making me wonder about like the value and it sounds like sacrilegious this almost goes against like beliefs that I have about basketball and like the sort of like the the the the perpetual belief that I think a lot of people have always had is that like if the series feels pretty even then the team with the best player is gonna win out the history of the WNBA bears that out um but it didn't in this series and it didn't in ways that I think teams are going to start copying in trying to repeat maybe a clutch defensive play becomes more important than a clutch shot maybe it always has been and this is just you know we prefer to talk about the big players and big moments and the individuals um maybe it's a clutch steal that becomes more important I could see I could see the finals being decided by those types of moments more than I could um you know like some crazy game winner totally and I I think that's the thing about like Valkyries in particular like when they play they play like their offense in a certain style that allows them to set their defense like it's kind of like caters to what they want to do on the defensive end and it's going to be really interesting when you're playing against a team like the dream who are so scrappy and they are so good at getting in passing lanes like it's probably gonna we're probably gonna see the Valkyries revert to a lot of iso just because of like the way that you mentioned they value possessions and yeah I I could see it being you know that defensive stop at the end of the game is going to be what the highlight is it's not going to be you know Gabby hitting a clutch three over a player who's in her phase I think it's it's going to come down to defense and these are two of the best defensive teams in the league and it kind of you know like I feel like any basketball fan would be lying if they didn't see it but I think it's going to come down to defense say that they they love offense more than defense right like you know you can have you can appreciate defense obviously but I just think that this is going to be a very gritty very physical kind of clunky type of series but I think it's gonna be a really fun one I think it's gonna be really I'm personally excited for it like I think I don't know maybe at the league office are freaked out right now a little bit I can imagine um but I'm personally very excited for it um I am just interested in seeing what the league office is going to be like I'm just interested in seeing like what happens when these teams advantages flatten out like maybe it reverts in a way where because they both value possession so much they flatten each other out and then it does come down to like who can make more shots um but the who made like the liberty made more of their shots than Atlanta did it didn't matter um yeah Atlanta just had way more possessions and opportunities this maybe maybe maybe we actually like circle back and it matters maybe it flattens itself out um but I'm interested in like who is able to impose their style because they do get to you know the number one and number two defense in a very different way um like Atlanta like I talked about leading the WNBA in points off turnovers and transition offense Golden State commits the fewest turnovers in the WNBA and they allow the fewest transition points something's gonna give there um it's gonna have to give the Valkyries are number one in three pointers made and attempted the dream allow the fewest three pointers in the WNBA like a lot of this is going to come down to like who actually is able to execute the WNBA and the WNBA is going to execute and impose their style and you have two great coaches you're also giving so I saw someone tweet like oh no they gave Natalie Nikasi a week to watch film like yeah that's dangerous yeah that's dangerous like if I think about like real advantages I'm like okay well I think Atlanta probably still wins a possession battle I think they're slightly better on the boards um but they also they get a ton of points in the paint the Valkyries don't really allow points in the paint like there are just going to be a lot of things that come to a head in this series and it makes it I mean it makes it a difficult one to predict I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know yeah are you gonna ask me for my prediction because well I'm gonna ask you for your manifestation yeah yes yes um we decided we would do manifestations because this is a series of manifesting Dan Padover was manifesting Angel Reese was manifesting Joe Lacob was manifesting everybody's out here like setting big goals um and and and making them happen so um yeah I figured yeah what's your what's your what's your manifestation for this series what are what who do you who do you think is going to win I mean I think my manifestation is going to give away who I think is going to win okay I think Gabby Williams took I don't even know if a risk is the right word but she she made the leap of faith that she really bought what gold state was doing and the way that San Francisco has totally embraced her and obviously she's from the bay like this is like a full circle moment for her I just think it would be so poetic for her to go on an absolute tear in this finals and be like this two-way force and walk away with finals MVP too sure it's going to perform at her birthday party like and she's never gonna have to buy dinner again in such an expensive city I just think that Gabby is gonna be she's gonna be the star of this and that's not to say that's not to diminish any of the other stars that are gonna like have their moments in this series because I do see we're gonna have you know maybe a classic Angel Reese game or Jordan Canada is gonna drop 2010 um with no turnovers or you know um Veronica Burton's gonna hit her hit a big shot and have her moment but I just think that Gabby will be the one who is the biggest difference maker she's gonna get that final MVP trophy and it's gonna be it's gonna be like yeah I can't wait to read Marcus Thompson's story about this like redemption arc like it's gonna go off oh my gosh yeah yeah yes um and they also have the all-star game as well next year too so if they win the title and then they have then they're hosting the WNBA um I just think that would be really fun it's gonna be lit you here's one thing if they win the title do you think that makes them a little less of a free agent destination well you kind of like mentioned this earlier right about like do you want to disrupt the chemistry if you have a good thing going but also if you're a star look Joe Lacob has done this before Warriors win a title in 2015 and they lose in 2016 and he brings in Kevin Durant maybe if the Warriors win that series they never get Kevin Durant um could history potentially repeat itself I mean it could yeah because I I think you as much as like Gabby is being so much this franchise and she's kind of like forever cemented herself regardless of what happens like I think she's forever going to be like tied to this franchise um after I know it's crazy to say after one year but it's been quite a year I think I could still see free agents seeing what the Valkyries are doing and being like I want to be a part of that like that atmosphere you know talk to any player and the majority of players will tell you if they're being honest and not saying like our home arena is the best yeah it's Valhalla like that atmosphere is insane they care so much about the team and they're so invested they know what's happening you know um it's the polar opposite of going to like a Warriors game at Chase Center where it feels more like a more of like a business outing than like a sporting yeah so it's really funny oh sorry go ahead well I just was I think that they they could they can attract some high-level free agents yeah regardless yeah um well I mean getting Joe Lacob in the pitch room was with with Gabby Williams telling her that she would be stupid to go anywhere else is like such classic it's so classic Joe it's so classic him um he also manifested Gabby Williams is the best player in the world maybe maybe by the end of the series we'll be talking about her like she is um it is really funny being in the Bay Area and specifically that area of the Bay for a Valkyries game because it feels genuinely as much as like yeah like the the Valkyries are like a representation of everything that's that's like fun and kind of nostalgic and lost about that san francisco it like creates this incongruent incongruency to we were like walking around the bay and it's all like tech fleas and like everything is efficient to the point of like of like cutting out any level of humanity you're i'm like overhearing meetings about um like the future of ai there was a conference in my hotel um that like i think i think nancy pelosi was at like there were just like it's it's very much like you know it's techie it's when everybody knows this right and then you go into walhalla and it's a completely different vibe um and i just thought that like meant like mentally that was very it was just weird it wasn't weird like you walk through a portal basically when you go no 100 yeah and I just think I think what I like about like WNBA games in general is just like how much of a safe space it feels like for everyone right like it doesn't matter like all different identities are welcomed and I think that that's that's really special um and that that's kind of like what was hard about this season right is that like what made the WNBA so special was being constantly like attacked and in so many ways and you know I'm talking about obviously like the the anti-trans issue um or and I just think that it's it's fitting that you know we've moved on from that I think thank god the world cup break happened when it did so like that couldn't continue to be like the storyline you know looming over this league because it and there's so much good stuff about it now we're gonna get a great series that knock on wood is going to revolve around basketball seven games I want seven seven you want set I it could go seven also I don't know who survives if it goes seven though like also if it goes seven I'm gonna pick the Valkyries because they have home court advantage and game winning game seven at Valhalla I'd be incredible could you I'm getting goosebumps thinking about that yeah I don't know what I think you're right it might go seven I I I didn't think about the amount of games but yeah seven it feels like it will go seven if it goes seven then October 31st will be um the game seven and Halloween is actually Gabby Williams favorite holiday like it might be it might be the stars Gabby it might be the that sounds like the season it's actually gonna be the opposite of the ball it's gonna be the rise of Gabby happening in the fall um you're kind of maybe changing my mind here a little bit okay but I will give you my manifestation because my manifestation is not necessarily going to be what decides the series and if it does go seven um everybody else like everybody's gonna have great moments um my manifestation is late in one of these games um the Atlanta Dream are gonna be down by two points and Ryan Howard is gonna take a three-pointer and she's going to miss it and I'm gonna be down by two points and I'm gonna miss it and Angel Reese is gonna rebound it and she's gonna get it right back to Ryan Ryan is gonna pump fake at a crazy closeout and she's gonna take a dribble in and she's gonna hit a mid-range jumper it will be one of the few mid-range jumpers that we see in this series um mid-range jumpers are definitely a loser in this series yeah as much as we were like two weeks ago so I was I was uh talking to Jordan who was on the pod about like the value of the mid-range we will not be seeing a lot of the mid-range um in this series but we will in this particular moment the game will be down by two points and I'm gonna be down by two points and I'm gonna go to overtime Atlanta will win it um another one honestly potentially like Angel Reese just a tip-in game winner like redemption for the miss that she had in Indiana that frankly turned turned her season around that is a funny um kind of like mini storyline and all of this the fact that it was like a loss against the Indiana Fever that completely turned her season around um is just one of those things that you couldn't script um just awesome um oh am I really gonna pick against the Valkyries when they have home court advantage oh I mean we can't pick the same thing and I already picked mine I guess it feels that way right like you know I was just talking with somebody about like when the Knicks won the championship it just felt like they were a team of destiny and like there was nobody really coming like standing in their way from stopping them from that feels like both these teams are the team of destinies like I don't know who to pick there's a real unstoppable force movable up in a moveable direction I don't know who to pick there's a real unstoppable object thing going on here I don't understand the physics I just said that I just said that I understand what that is as a literary metaphor I do not understand what it means from a scientific perspective at all um okay so the reason I'm thinking Atlanta is they have if everything flattens out which on some level it will have to because both these teams are going to take each other out of their games I think Atlanta will slightly win the possession battle I do think Amanita Guy is once again going to be very important at work um and as she already has been she's because she is she is the winner of like the became important at work award um and she's gonna but she's gonna have a lot of like you know her work is going to be cut out for her I they're slightly better off into rebounding team and if everything flattens out the dream do have more star power um they do have more players that I'm like okay back to that thing like five seconds left ball in their hands I see the game-winning shot thing I see more from the Atlanta side the Valkyries do have the better defense they have they do have better depth you know what it is they have better discipline they're a little bit more disciplined you're right and maybe that's unfair because I think it's stylistically the Valkyries discipline is a huge part of what they do whereas Atlanta creates chaos I was gonna say that yeah maybe it could it's one of those series that it's legitimately a toss-up it could go either way and that's why I think it goes seven games because I really think this could be a series where Golden State wins the first two and then Atlanta wins the next two and then it's like well the series doesn't begin until a home team loses and then it's like the series just never begins but no I mean yeah they're also the Valkyries are 3-0 against the dream in the regular season they were all close games though and it was before the dream added Bonner and they went on this run at the end of the season where I think they really put things together and also honestly in terms of them like kind of figured out the discipline side of things too yeah Maddie this series is gonna come down to something so stupid too like we're talking about all these important factors and it's gonna be like I don't know we haven't talked about Chechi at all Chechi was kind of like kind of a non-factor in the Liberty series I hate predictions I mean maybe maybe your prediction is that it's gonna be a good series no I can't cop out I do have to make a prediction you know what you know what stay on business say what you wanted to say I did but now I'm like my gut is feels different you're saying you're thinking dream in six no no no no not I guess it'd be hard to win at home oh my gosh you know what Valks in seven huge Tiffany Hayes game yeah that's what it's good that's what I that's that's that yeah Valks in seven huge Tiffany Hayes game all right Maddie thank you so much for making the time I appreciate you read Maddie's work at the New York Post um I imagine we will be getting some updates on the New York Liberty at some point um their coaching staff uh we'll see how I actually before I let you go well last thing I'll say it seems like everybody thinks Chris is gone but he's not gone yet and um he said that he expects to be back of course now obviously what else is he going to say Prince in a moment like that um percentage chances that he's back like is is there any chance he's back he's still under contract so I think anytime that you have to think about the money there's always going to be that's always something you have to keep in mind so I think there is like a percentage I don't know if it's a high percentage though I just think unfortunately that like came to just what everything in the semis was kind of so many red flags yeah do we know anything about his contract length I don't know his exact contract length but I do know he's under contract next year okay and like would have to be paid out okay okay gotcha yeah well at least you know at least it wouldn't be if they did at least it wouldn't be fired like paying for two fired coaches because I think Sandy's contract was legit yeah it was like a team option I think or something okay like this year so okay gotcha all right I guess okay all things um good to know all right Maddie thank you so much for making the time um yeah it's going to be an interesting time to read Maddie's work so make sure you do that um and your twit like where are you most like mostly posting stuff on social um mostly twitter and threads and both of them are at mad kenny okay um I also have blue sky but it kind of gets hard to post on all three yeah blue sky has kind of fallen by the wayside for me unfortunately I've also just like I've deleted all social media off my phone which has been lovely uh I'm jealous it's great I still I post stuff when I get on my laptop and yeah it's just it's just so much nicer to be alive this way um also if you're gonna follow her uh it's k-e-n-n-e why there is that extra e at the at the end there um Maddie thank you thank you to Ben Cruz for producing thank you to Stefan Anderson as always for also producing we got two producers today uh because it's a finals right so so big time we will be back um probably on Thursday to give y'all honestly what will be a mega finals preview is one of the silver linings of this being such a long break is like I think all of us are going to be able to really get into it get our Natalie Nakase on and study the tape. So I'm super excited to just like really dig deeply into the series, perhaps go back on my prediction. We'll see. But yeah, stay tuned and happy WNBA finals.