Win and In #47 | The Super-Skrull cEDH Deck Tech — What If Kenrith Was Actually Good?

0:13 Welcome to the Podcast: Meet John Hauser Welcome back to the winning podcaster. I'm your host, Max P I'm joined today by fellow super scroll enthusiast John Howser. What's going on man? How you doing? 0:21 Speaker 2 Howdy everybody, it's going pretty good. Going pretty good, enjoying the deck, happy to talk about. 0:25 Speaker 1 The hell yeah. Dude, the deck is so great. For those who don't know John, John has been playing super scroll I think longer than anybody and he's he's been putting it through its paces. He's been playing in turn after tournament and putting up results. And what we're going to do today is we're going to do basically a super scroll deck deck and go through my version of the deck and his version of the deck, talk about what's similar, what's different, his philosophy versus my philosophy and spoil alert. 0:53 I think both strategies are fucking great. 0:56 Speaker 2 Yeah, I I'd agree with that for sure. Yeah, they're definitely both very viable and it's all player dependent and pilot dependent. Whatever your personal preferences are, you can take this deck, I think 4 different routes and be successful with it. 1:09 Speaker 1 Hell yeah, Hell yeah. But before we jump into anything, this video is brought to you by F6 Supply and. 1:27 Episode Break F6 supplies your one stop shop for premium tournament accessories. From Beni Shoga play mats and high quality dice to our custom token pack, F6 has everything you need to up your tournament game. Every design is original art, never AI. Shop online at shopf6.com or visit our booth at CBH Tournaments Nationwide. 1:45 Level up your game with F6 Supply. 1:50 From Casual to cEDH: John's Magic Background John, like, tell us a little bit about yourself for those who don't know you. Like, what's your magic background? How'd you into playing CDH? 1:58 Speaker 2 So my magic background, honestly I just kind of stumbled into commander by accident. I used to work at a card shop and one thing led to another. I was basically stuck staying with one of my buddies for the weekend and they just said hey here's a deck we're playing commander. I had no clue what I was doing. 2:14 I really I really liked it. So played a lot of casual for a bit, but got into CDH and August of 2024 I started on a Traxxa. Played a few tournaments, didn't didn't seem to really like it. Tried cannon for a little bit, still couldn't figure out what I wanted. 2:29 Eventually got into Yoshi Thras a lot in 2025, did really well. I had a lot of tournaments with that was really pushing through things started to get a little. I don't I don't know, boring is the word repetitive is probably the better way to to word that where it's it's like a rock thrust decky. 2:46 You just keep doing cradle over and over and I just wanted something new for a change. I tried a the band commander when it came out, just basically the guy Ruda band. 2:56 Speaker 1 Commander did that for. 2:58 Speaker 2 A little bit. Was really disappointed. I kind of sucked on that and then eventually transitioned into what was the beginning stages of super scroll, which I called tithe Farm back then on. It was in Timacrom and it was just basically the initial stages of what super scroll or slop is nowadays when flash photography came out and just trying to make as many copies of Wristic and Tithe as possible. 3:20 And here we are now, yeah. 3:23 Speaker 1 Oh yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I, I feel you, man. Because I was, I was playing TNT for years at this point. When I saw Super Scroll, I got excited about it. But it wasn't until I started playing it where I was like, OK, this is this is what I've been looking for. Because like you TNT, just like that same play pattern over and over again is like, OK, I'm going to go ahead and play devoted turret. 3:42 I'm a play devoted turret. I'm a Hazel's brewmaster. OK, yeah, same thing. Over beat, repeat, repeat. And it was like, I want to do something more. I want something more exciting and Super Scroll came out and we were there. They spoiled it really early, right? 3:57 Speaker 2 December 9th, 2025, yeah, that's I've been playing it since December 9th. At least play testing online and practicing it, yeah? 4:08 Speaker 1 Yeah, see, I had AI had a list I threw together back then, but I didn't play it at all until maybe two months ago. 4:15 Speaker 2 Oh, I I knew the deck was going to do well when online practice games. My 1st 20, I went 19 and one and I was, I was just like dumbfounded. That would, but that's probably 3-4 weeks of play testing in free time. Like I get maybe one game every maybe 2 days. 4:31 And yeah, I was just dumbfounded by how well it could work with just getting 2 tides out. Like if you just slam a turn 2 tithe and then hey, next turn I'm going to play super scroll, I'm going to pass on someone's end step. I'll end up drawing 4 cards as long as I can find a tutor to get a second one. That's pretty much game right there. 4:48 Debunking the 'New Kenrith' Myth Yeah. So what you're saying is it's exactly the same as Kenrith, right? Exactly the same deck. 4:53 Speaker 2 Well, it's it's a bit ironic. I played Kenrith for a month before Super Scroll came out when I was really like getting into my final iterations of testing. There was only one game I had five smothering ties and used Kenrith's ability to deck people out like you do with Scroll. 5:09 With two ties it is nowhere near the capabilities I at least with that combo, but there's there's just differences that it has with the reanimation ability, the plus one counters, it's just completely different. I'd argue like yes it's five color value, but completely different with the capabilities they both have. 5:28 Speaker 1 Oh totally agree and and not to not to shoot on camera at all. All respect to Kenarth. Kenarth is a cool deck. I'm still working on the Kenarth deck right now. Completely separate as like a science project, but that's a whole different conversation. But it to me, it's like every time I hear someone say, oh, it's, it's like the new Kenrith. 5:44 It's like, like, you know how people say the same joke over and over. I'll put sadness on the stack. Like like it's just, oh, it just makes me like like my insides crawl. Like it's, it's not like Kenrith. 5:56 Speaker 2 At all I I personally, I personally love when I sit down on a table and someone says, oh, this is like Kenrith because every single other player at that table immediately misses what I'm doing And they're like, OK, this is just another five colour bad pile. And they just let he resolved my value engines and then an hour later somehow I won with an abundance of value. 6:14 I will never argue with someone if they say my deck is a bad version of something that's already bad. 6:21 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, Hell yeah, Hell yeah yeah. And and to put it like to put it in in details, right. So you look at Kenrith. What does Kenrith do? Yes, it's a it's a commander that has activated abilities. Scroll is a commander with activated abilities, but the activated abilities themselves are vastly different with the exception of the draw card right one, but all the rest are different. 6:42 So Kenrith has some advantages. This scroll doesn't have one. It does allow you to do reanimation stuff right? So you can build Kenrith to do reanimation. Scroll is not really well fitted for that. OK, totally different ability and the life gain ability is is kind of neat in some situations like you can. 7:00 Speaker 2 You know, worn sultrater loops. It enables it to go infinite. That's the biggest. 7:03 Speaker 1 One yeah, you're right. Yeah, absolutely. But other than that, like the the the the comparisons get very different because what scroll does is scroll lets you kill creatures on board. So you have on board removal in the command zone. And I don't think people understand how relevant that is right now. But if you look at the meta, if you look at all the recent tournaments lately, what are you seeing? 7:22 You're seeing a ton of cannon. You're seeing a lot us to say you're seeing Shang chi's like you're seeing cabbage merchant. You're seeing these very key creatures that are either in the command zone, Gilda Drake or in the deck Gilda Drake. That's a huge 1. So these huge. So these these are what people are playing right now and having onboard removal to just solve that problem is way more powerful than you think, especially if you could reduce the cost of it right? 7:46 And the the ability to draw cards is at a much better rate than you get with Kenrith, right? You pay 4 men and you draw one card with Kenrith with scroll, you get to draw four with six mana right? So a little bit more, but the deck is built to make mana. 8:02 So activations are happening. Trust me, they're happening and then the last abilities or the last two abilities 1 doesn't really matter. It's green pump scroll. Who cares? But the the last one is you can create walls, which we'll talk about a lot more later, which for me and my version of the deck is the best part. 8:19 Sunshine Showdown: A Call to Action But we'll, we'll, we'll. 8:20 Speaker 2 Get it? That's your fun, Fun tech, Yeah. 8:23 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's, that's, that's my approach. It's a little bit different, but yeah. OK, So just to pause for a second before we dive deeper into the Decktech, I want to take a minute to highlight a, a tournament that's coming up that people really haven't signed up for yet. Like it's, it's pretty low attendance right now, but it's in a great spot. 8:40 It's in Florida down in Coconut Creek, FL and it's October 10th through October 11th. And it's the it's called the Sunshine Showdown and it's a a 10K scaling. So like once you get over 187 players, the prize pool goes up. 8:58 It's being thrown by punt, win, repeat. If you don't know those guys, Jordy, who's a member of Monolith is one of the guys throwing this and they're doing it with land go. So you do well here, you get the land go Invitational. And it's also going to count for top deck points. So I'll put this up on the screen. 9:15 You'll see a link to we're to sign up in the description below. They're not I'm like, they're not paying me or anything for this. Like it. This is going to be a great tournament and I really want to see people go out. It'll be a good time. OK, I said my piece. 9:31 Let's dive into the deck a little bit. 9:34 First Thoughts on Super-Skrull's Potential So when you first saw a scroll, what did you think? What was your what was your thought initially about how to build it? 9:43 Speaker 2 You're going to hate this. I pulled up the screenshots back in December 9th when it when it got spoiled and I was just talking with my buddy about it. I sent him the screenshot. My first statement was is this a worse Kenrith question? Park you too. 10:00 And no, about 5 seconds later there's a message in all caps that just says, oh, wait, this just wins with two times. And I I realized at that point I'm like, oh, there is there is some potential here because first reading it, you're just looking OK, draw cards, shoot things, make balls. 10:16 OK, seems kind of average and simple. And then you realize it says target player. And then there's a lot of things you can play around. Once you realize you can actually like deck your opponents out, do things like that, it becomes a whole different ball game. And that, that's what I think is the biggest driving force of why this commander is so good lately. 10:34 Speaker 1 Yeah, I agree. And and I'm naturally drawn to commanders that let you build your deck without having to include pieces because the commander solves those pieces. And Scroll does that, right, because the wind gun is built into the commander. Like, you don't need fast as Oracle in this deck at all, right? 10:53 Because the the wincon stapled onto your commander. You don't need to run bad cards in your deck, right? You can just run scroll. And it also lets you run less removal in many ways because it has removal stapled on. Yeah, it's got everything. 11:06 Speaker 2 I don't run anything other than passenger and Ottawara for removal and Orchestra Bow masters, but that's a whole different story with the fact that you can make your opponent's draw cards and clear cannons boards or SIS boards. It it it makes the political aspect so much stronger for this deck. 11:21 Speaker 1 Hell yeah. 11:22 The Power of Smothering Tithe in Skrull So I think that's where we agree, right. I think for the most part, if you look at our two lists, this is a compare between our two lists and you'll see right away that there's a pretty substantial difference. There's 33 cards different between the two. But what's more important for right now is where we're exactly the same. 11:39 And that comes down to basically your plan A and my your plan is, it's called Plan 1 and my plan 1A. And that is smothering tide, right? Because as you pointed out, yeah, go ahead. 11:55 Speaker 2 It's it's it's probably one of the strongest cards in AI. Don't I don't know how to wear a ristic slop man. Although there's still plenty of TurboTax that are out there surviving. I mean tithe if it goes around the board once it just pays for itself with everyone's draw steps for the most part. I mean you get 3 mana right away and if anyone has a draw engine, if anyone has Thracios and is doing anything like that, you're going to make more than your treasures back in the in the first turn cycle. 12:22 It's just a good card to begin with, and the fact that it's also a combo piece makes it even stronger. 12:28 Speaker 1 Yeah, and in this day and age where we have so many enchantment copies, it's so easy to get from one spoiler inside the two. All right, when you think about it, how many different copies are we running here? You've got copy enchantment, We've got, I think we're both on. 12:44 Are you a clever impersonator? 12:46 Speaker 2 I'm on a. 12:46 Speaker 1 Clever impersonator flash photography. 12:49 Speaker 2 Mirror Maid. 12:51 Speaker 1 Mirror Maid, right? All of these are clean, easy copies of of tie, right? So very, very simple to get from one smothering tie to two. And because of the way that scroll works, you pay 6 MENA. The worst case, you pay 6 MENA, you target another player, they draw 4 cards. 13:08 If you have two ties, guess what? You get 8 treasures. You get a net two treasures every single time. And the synergy doesn't stop there, right? Because it also works with kin in. So if you have kin in, you create 4 treasures and those all TA for two. So you're still netting 2 men every single time. 13:25 So the game plan is simple, right? Play tithe, copy tithe, resolve a silence, win game, right? Or even if you don't resolve a silence, you're probably still winning. 13:33 Speaker 2 Yeah, I I was your both times. You don't even need a silence because you just look over. Oh, cool, there's a Natali player. Oh, there's someone that doesn't have blue in their deck. Whoever it may be, you just target them and if they drop a Sage, you it doesn't matter. Once you've netted a bunch of treasures, you're going to be able to go over the top of it. 13:50 Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. When we I met John, we were both coming back for Breach the Bay and we were in the airport like 11:00 at night trying to catch our flight. So that's where we met. I've seen your name a billion times because obviously I'm going to look up your list and steal inspiration from it when I was building mine. 14:06 But we hadn't met in person, so we met at the airport. We're just sitting there talking and I'm like, people let you resolve smothering time. You're like, yeah. And I'm like, why would you let super scroll resolved tithe? 14:17 Speaker 2 Guys, it's. 14:18 Speaker 1 You never do that. 14:19 Speaker 2 It's super political. You have to make a lot of weird deals. Like sometimes if I'm sitting in a pod and it's, for example, at Breach, Breach the bait, there was Kinon and double Sissy in my pod and I was copying the Sissy's tithe and they were the ones that had a counterspell for mine. And I had to make a deal that I was never going to target them to draw cards with Scroll And I was never going to target any of their board with the removal because they were just so scared of the threat of Kinon and Sissy across from them that they had to like kind of just let me have some value. 14:50 Sometimes I've had people make me agree that I'm never going to copy Tithe, and then it gets a little wonky with how I win. That's why I have breach in the deck though. It's like, hey cool, I have 30 treasures, I'm going to draw 20 cards, hopefully find something. 15:02 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. And you still run well, we'll get into how how we're different in a second. But I built in a lot of ways the same way when it comes to tithe, right. I am also tithing whenever I can. If I resolve A tithe, I'm probably winning the game because I'm going to clone it and do the same thing you are. 15:18 But I think we're a little different in that I'm not as prioritized around tithe as you are. So I'm not running as many spells that protect it as you are. So you run a little bit more interaction than I do. You've got more silence effects. You've got permission denied, you've got flame scroll celebrant, you got arms chant. 15:35 I don't know on any of those. You're also on the big, the big Teferi because you're on also and. 15:40 Speaker 2 That's the thing, yeah. 15:42 Speaker 1 Yeah, but all of that serves to protect your your your ability to tithe much better than I can. I'm still tithing and I'm still winning with tithe. But for you, it's, it's much more powerful, I think in your version of the deck than mine. 15:57 Max's Walls & Creature Combo Strategy Now from there, we, we diverge a lot after that. I mean, obviously the core of the deck is mostly the same. Obviously these all the, the, the typical interaction, your typical rocks, all your typical tutors is all pretty much the same. But then we we diverge. 16:12 And where we diverge is kind of funny because I originally built the version that I'm on almost as a meme, right where I'm like, Oh yeah, look, it's a, it's a 5 card combo. I just need scroll enduring, vitality, kinon cost reducer and Shang chi and I win the game. 16:32 Easy, right? 16:33 Speaker 2 You see it like that. It's like, oh, you only need these six cards and you can win. 16:37 Speaker 1 Yeah, you just need 5 cards. It's easy. 16:40 Speaker 2 Somehow you get there all the time. That's what I don't understand, how you get everything on board without anybody removing it. 16:46 Speaker 1 Well, that, that's the thing. It's like, it's like the, the each of those cards is just a very powerful card from a value perspective, right? So me playing enduring vitality into play right gives me massive advantage over time. 17:01 Every time I create a wall, I'm also creating a mana door. For example, if I if I if I pair it with a kin in and now all my creatures tap for two mana and my mana gets explosive really easily. So it's just, it's just like powerful value and at the same time, like you're not removing my enduring vitality normally. 17:17 Like just if it's just an enduring vitality, it it, it would be incorrect to do that because there's far more dangerous threats on the board that are winning more immediately. So I'm just playing value and finding my time until it's the right time for me to put the rest together. And it just works. It it's amazing how it just works. 17:34 Like I would have thought that it would be terrible, but every time I play the deck, I'm amazed at how easy it is to get these pieces into play and just how as I put each piece onto the battlefield, the whole deck feels stronger with each one. So it, it, it, it works better than you think the way some of the combos work. 17:52 Like I'll just lay it off for you so it's clear. So obviously scroll creates walls and if I have enduring vitality, that wall taps for MENA. If I have Kinnin, it taps for two MENA. If I have Shang Chi, it taps as soon as it enters the battlefield, and if I have a cost reducer, it reduces the cost to make a wall to 1 white. 18:16 So if I tap that one white at that point, it creates a wall that has haste. I tap that wall for two white, which creates 2 more walls that also tap for two white and it goes crazy, right? It goes infinite immediately at that point, So and then you can replace the different pieces. 18:32 I have a lot of redundancy built in. So I have Bio Man, I have Zurda, I have training grounds, so three different cost reducers. I have Shang Chi and I have Tivar, both of which are haste enablers with added functionality. And then I also have Mr. Fantastic, which seems kind of silly, but if I create a wall, I draw a card, right? 18:56 So even if I can't instantly win with it, if I could just creep creating walls, I'm going to draw my deck basically and win that way. So lots of redundancy built in to that effect. Whereas your deck is more built around protecting spells, my deck is built around protecting creatures. 19:14 So I'm running things like Legolas's Quick Reflexes, I'm running Touch the Spilt Realm which could protect the creature, I'm running Recursion with Colossal Sky Turtle and with Tivar, and I'm running more creature tutors that put creatures in the battlefield. 19:29 Speaker 2 It's, it's definitely a very interesting aspect. I was, I was very confused when I first heard about you running Mr. Fantastic. I think that's probably the spiciest tech that you you pulled out here because I was always like struggling to understand because in my head it's like I would rather just pay 6 to draw 4 rather than make 2 walls to draw 2. 19:47 But when you look at it from a perspective of this might be something you're doing on end step before going into your turn and then getting out and enduring vitality, which then those walls that you just made, then tap for more mana. It just kind of piles up on top of everything with the synergy that you have that it it makes total sense. 20:05 Speaker 1 Yeah, it, it, it, it fills in for one of the, the, the combo pieces, essentially. So if I don't have Kinen, for example, if I have Byoman, I have Shang Chi and I have Enduring Vitality and I play Mr. Fantastic. Well, now I can tap for one white, create a wall, draw a card, then tap that wall for one white, draw a card and draw my entire deck, right. 20:25 So it fills the combo piece as well as just being great utility because I'm running Ragavan, Tataru, Taru, Lotho, obviously smothering ties, blaming Splendor, all these token generators. So it just draws lots of cards. So if you look at in the Invitational, I had a game on stream against Sam Black and Grant and Bruno on Natali. 20:46 I played an early Mr. Fantastic and I had at that point Taratara and Raghavan, and I just drew like 6 or 7 cards just on those two effects. And that really makes the difference in a lot of games. So Mr. Fantastic is fantastic, so really good. 21:02 John's Value-Oriented Underworld Breach Deck If you look at your deck and I'll basically turn it over to you. I mean, you're playing a much different game plan in that you really have the ability to do, you know, CD HS most powerful thing with with Underworld bridge. 21:15 Speaker 2 Yeah, if people are looking at the deck, they'll notice. There's no gifts, there's no intuition, there's no Sveen's Wreck, no LED. It's just a breech wins with Lotus Pedal and Brain Freeze at the end of the game. I'm never jamming turbo. I'm always going for a turn two or three value engine, whether it be Ristic Study or Smothering Tithe. 21:33 I have things like Hunting Ground in the deck so that I have a Ristic Study out. It's a very easy follow up with Hunting Grounds because once you have any draw engine, whether it be fish or study, you get to stack your triggers in a way that hey, I'm going to draw off my wristic study first. 21:49 If it's a creature, cool, I'm going to just slam it into play most of the time. If it if there's OBM's on board, I'll like make different decisions, but it just makes it really free that hey, if I draw a creature card off wristic and an archivist, A Wanji Tong, a Lotho, any value engine cabbage versions, the best one. 22:05 If it's any creature like that, I get to put it into play for free and I love it. It it gets really crazy. I think clever impersonator is the strongest card other than Teferi in the deck. Strongest creature. I should say with this strategy, because there's been plenty of times where I will let someone's breach resolve because the second they cast any other spell, cool. 22:26 My hunting grounds is going to put clever impersonator to play. I have an underworld breach. I have more interaction than they do in my deck. I'm going to be able to fight through that. And it's it's just so crazy how just that one card I think makes Hunting Grounds playable. Because sometimes I'll just put it, put clever into play as a copy of Heuristic Study, a Tithe, whatever. 22:45 I want it to be in the middle of a giant stack war when everybody else's value engines that maybe they're trying to flash out with Valley flood color or whatnot are getting buried out of the stack. And and it's it's why Teferi becomes so good with the deck. 22:57 Unlocking Value with Gleaming Splendor Yeah. So I either focus on wristic study, follow up with hunting grounds, or just try to get a tithe out. Whatever I can Mulligan for it. I I try not to be too picky. It's just whatever the deck will give me in a certain game. Although gleaming splendor has started changing my perception on how I'm Mulligan. 23:14 If I see anything that's a turn one top deck tutor to put gleaming splendor on top. If I already have Kinen or Zurda in my opening hand, I will keep hand because a turn to gleaming with a turn 3 Zerda or Canon to be able to start making that mana positive every N step. 23:32 I'm going to make everybody draw 2 cards. I'm going to make a bunch of extra treasures. It usually you need both to really start going or a clone of gleaming. But when you run so many enchantment clones as I do, it starts valuing out the table and and once everybody's drawn so many cards, you have things like Fairy Mastermind King D'challa to help benefit you even more off that draw. 23:55 And then you're going to find more copies. It just compounds to a point where hey, I have 12 mana, I'm going to cast this tie. If we all have the same number of cards in hand, I probably have more interaction like you were pointing out earlier. I run so much interaction to just protect everything that it'll be able to push through slowly. 24:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think, I think we should talk for a second about Gleaming Splendor because Gleaming Splendor is a car that synergizes amazingly in both of our decks, both versions of our deck. And really, that's because of Zerda, right? The fact that we can run Zerda is, makes that that little combination between Zerda and Gleaming Splendor insane. 24:30 Oh yeah. Because it, it reduces the cost of activations of Gleaming Splendor down from white +2 to just white that it goes bonkers. And I think a lot of people are misreading the way to play gaming Splendor. I think people look at it as like, OK, it's like a low Thor, it's like a Tataro Taro, like early value engine. 24:49 I'm just going to shove it into play and it's going to return value. And I think that's really kind of incorrect. What it really is is it's more of a mid game to late game value engine more than anything else. Because if you have it in play with any of the many pieces in both of our versions of the deck that synergize with it, it just goes crazy. 25:06 And the the sloppier the board state is, the better that card is. 25:11 Speaker 2 Definitely yeah, it it works a lot like a Lotho in that turn 2 to 3 where you're maybe getting 2 treasures per turn cycle, maybe 3. Not like a ton to be insane. It's worse than Lotho in that first turn. But once you get past turn 3, it's insane the amount of treasures you're going to make because unless someone is jamming on the stack trying to win, you're going to be getting 2 or even potentially 3 treasures every single turn. 25:36 Someone casts a few spells, feeds a few value engines from the rest of the players. You're you're going to be getting treasures from it and Timna as well. Any blue farm deck or Timna thrash deck where they're just they trigger Timna for one draw. That's all you need because they drew for their draw step. They're drawing the second card on Timna. 25:52 Boom, you're going to treasure right there too. It's just so strong and for only two mana I think this is a very good card with Serta. 26:00 Leveraging Super-Skrull for Table Politics Yeah, and we we in, well, super Scroll when I say we converts mana better than any other deck in the format. I believe like people talk about how great Thracios is in terms of converting mana into cards, and it's true. When it comes to just converting men into cards, sure, Thracias is probably a little bit better than Scroll immediately, although later I would argue it's worse, but Scroll has so much more it can do. 26:21 Besides that, the fact that it can every minute goes towards removing other important threats on the battlefield. We just could do more with mana than most deckscan. 26:30 Speaker 2 Even when you're not in a position to win, I, I oftentimes have a lot of situations where like if you have just one tie out or just a splendor out and you have scroll out with maybe 12 mana. If someone starts to jam and you have any sort of way to make back some mana, you can point out to them, hey, I would like to offer a draw here because I can start feeding my opponents a bunch of cards where they'll draw interaction to deal with you. 26:53 I'm going to keep getting a bunch of treasures back to keep feeding them more cards. And we're just going to get into this slow repetitive cycle where yes, it's not infinite, but I'm going to give them 16 cards. And if they stop you, then we're stuck trying to beat them next. And even if you're not able to win and put a copy of tie out, it definitely can help slow the game down to forcing a draw when you're in a dire situation. 27:15 Speaker 1 If if you're good at politics, this, this deck in particular has so many different tools. Like one of my favorite things to do is, OK, I have a scroll activation available. You have an Orchish bow master. We have a problem over there. Hey. 27:30 Or I have, yeah, I'm going to activate scroll and I'm going to target this player so he can draw interaction, which is going to trigger your orchish bow master, which is going to kill the stuff. That's a problem over there, but I have leverage, right? You want to draw these cards, OK, You want to these bow master pings? 27:50 OK, We got to make a deal about this bow master. That bow master needs to not be ending my stuff, right? I'll save the day. I'm willing to give. I'm giving away cards. I'm giving away pings. But you now can't touch my bore with your bow Master, right? We got to work something out. So those kind of political tools that you can do this little angles as you can work are unique to scroll that you can't do it any other day, right, Or even just I I get to hold the gun over your head. 28:12 I have I have a scroll activation. Do I need to kill your sisse Now? I don't think you can cast that Shang Chi right now. If you cast the Shang Chi, I have to kill Sisse, right. So hold that, hold that, hold that in your hand, right, because I want to hold this activation up to kill the kid and over there. 28:28 So you get to kind of work the table and like hold people hostage with the with the scroll activations. 28:34 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, it's it's definitely super meta shifting when a scroll is in your pod if you're a creature based deck, because you're going to have to be able to pile take your way out of it. 28:42 Hunting Grounds: A Slop Meta Breaker And if I have mana, you're probably not going to be able to get a win through me having mana and pointing a gun at your cannon or so say yeah. 28:51 Speaker 1 Yeah, incredibly good that way. So let's talk about hunting grounds a little bit. So I tried hunting grounds in my deck as well and it didn't work as well. And I think the difference between your version of my version is your deck is built to plant slot very differently than mine, right? You have a, a, a, a bunch more interaction that you're willing to cast, that you're willing to put on the stack and say, I'll interact here, I'll interact there. 29:14 And I'm filling the grave right up so very quickly that hunting Grounds is turned on. And you're built to go into a longer game than my deck is, I think. 29:22 Speaker 2 Yeah, Hunting Grounds is it's, I'd say the best parody breaker card in the slop meta right now. I don't think it's good other than that. I've seen some people take the card because they see like they watch one of my games where I have it out and I have 3 ristics like that's that's the that's the dream situation, right? 29:43 They see that and they think it's a great card and they try it and it's it's just not working for them. You only can really play it in a super slop deck. Like I said, if I have a turn to wrist stick and then I draw like maybe 3-4 cards in the cycle, get back to my turn. 29:58 If I have a demonic tutor in four man, I know exactly what I'm going to grab. I'm going to grab hunting grounds. I'm slamming out in the field and I'm passing because they're going to look at that half the time when I'm casting it and they know it's scary later. But the problem is the ROG size sitting next to me, the route player, whoever it might be is scarier. 30:15 And if they burn that counter on my hunting grounds when I only have three cards in my yard and I hand them my entire hand and I say, look, I have an archivist. That's the only creature I have in my hand right now. Like there's a lot of times where I will just hand people my hand and I'll be like, I'll let you make a decision. You can see every creature I have in my hand. 30:32 You see the interaction. I probably if I'm handing them my hand, I probably don't have any way to protect hunting grounds. Meaning if they burn their peace on this and we go to rock size turn, we might just lose. If you just use that way to politic through and then it'll it'll end up resolving. You'll go through maybe two turns. 30:48 If people are feeding your wristic and you're interacting with your free spells, you'll hit seven in the yard within a couple turns and that's when it starts getting crazy. And I mean, it's only two mana. If I at the bare minimum get to put an archivist, get to put a Lotho, I get to put Wan Chi Tong into play for free. 31:04 I look at that as though it's paid for itself and anything after that is free. Sometimes it puts in Valley flood colors, cabbage merchants, I fade tricksters to ferry, and that is basically just winning the game there. It it's always going to be a good investment if it's followed for a stick. The only time it's bad is when you're mulliganing and it's just a useless card at the beginning of the game. 31:23 Comparing Max's and John's Core Strategies That's definitely the worst part. 31:26 Speaker 1 Yeah, and, and like we talked about, your deck is built to play better into those slot games, right? You're going to be, you're looking to wrist stick as a, as a primary game plan, draw lots of cards and you have silences, you have extra flash enablers that I don't have. 31:42 You're going to have more ways to get into a sloppy fight. And then you can resolve A breach at some point in the midst of it after you you slam it to ferry out of the battlefield undergrounds, right. Those are those are the games that you can play that are very different from mine. Now with that said, what my deck does well is get underneath the slot right, because I'm playing cards that are just creatures that just incrementally gain advantage right and create massive amounts of mana. 32:11 So when I get into a slot game, when it gets late game and super sloppy at that point, I generally have a massive ton of mana available if I haven't already won and I'm just going to draw cards until I have the answer. And, and, and I'm trying to, I'm not really winning at instant speed most of the time unless I have significant set up. 32:31 I'm just looking to get back to my turn. I went on my turn so. 32:34 Speaker 2 Definitely coming from a slot player perspective, the scariest thing about if I were to come up against you is that you're going to have so much money. You're going to pay for all the rest of study triggers. If even if I only have one or two, you're probably going to be either not casting spells because you're just going to be activating abilities, or maybe you're 1 creature tutor. 32:51 Yeah, you'll pay two extra mana to make sure I don't draw any cards so I don't have a counterspell for it. And that's pretty much going to win you the game at that point. Like you, you probably just need to resolve one or two creature spells or creature tutors throughout the game to start getting to that combo. 33:06 I think the only downside is that if I have a tie out and you're trying to draw a bunch of cards, that's where it's going to run you into problems. But yeah, not having to direct a lot on the stack with spells is a huge thing for you. 33:18 Navigating Deals with Scheming Symmetry Right. And one of the things we talked about in the airport is like the whole tithe problem, Like how do you resolve A tithe? I'm like, if I enlighten tutor for a tithe, like everyone's alarm bells go up. Everyone's like, OK, we got we got to answer this. Everybody works together and stops it, right? Unless you you pull off some kind of magnificent deal. 33:34 If I say I'm enlightening tutor for a enduring vitality, people are like, yeah, sure, that's fine because it's this, it's fine, right? 33:42 Speaker 2 Resolving tithe, like I said earlier, you just have to make certain deals. There's a few other tricks. I don't think you're not running scheming symmetry, right? No. Yeah, that's another. 33:54 Speaker 1 I'm on Apple, by the way, but I'm not on scheming Sentry. You're on scheming symmetry, but not Apple. 33:58 Speaker 2 I was on Apple for a long time. I only cut it the day before the breach the Bay just because I was really struggling for slots and I wanted to add more ways to get kin and so I added Greenson Zenith, but I wasn't Popo up until that point. It was a lot of fun. But scheming symmetry gives me this weird political angle where if I'm in a pod, let's say it's Sissy Kitten and a Rog sigh. 34:21 Well, that that sounds like an average cop nowadays. Typically I would look at this turn 1 scheming symmetry and I would assume that the kitten player is probably a slop player. I would talk to them and I'd be like, hey, I'll give you this scheming symmetry. If you go get Ristic, I won't interact with it, I'm going to go get Smothering Tithe or my own wrist stick and you won't interact with it. 34:41 And typically if they're the only person in the pod that most likely has a counterspell at that point, they're going to take that deal because that's a free vampiric tutor for their best card in their deck and they're always going to take that deal. CGH players by nature agree. I've never had a scheming symmetry deal, never like work like someone is always willing to take that deal. 35:03 And sometimes I look at the sysay player, like if, if I if I'm the only slot player in the pot, I'll look at the sysay player. I'll be like, Hey, if I give you this, what are you going to get? And talking back and forth, they're going to get tight. Cool, cool. I just go and get my commandeer or I go and get copy enchantment, something along those lines. 35:20 I know if someone is going to that's so funny. If no one counters theirs, I'm going to be able to copy mine and if no one else in the pod has any value engines or interaction pieces, I if I have a wrist stick out, I know I can just grab commandeer and take it from them. 35:36 So there's there's a lot of weird deals you can make with your top deck tutors and talking with people. A lot of times I do get bullied with the mental misstep and I have to just grab like something else like an S per Sentinel or a fish. But just getting any draw engine out early is good enough to get you to that point where you will have tithe plus backup later. 35:55 Speaker 1 Nice. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. 35:57 Optimizing Opening Hands for John's Build So let's talk a little bit about how your game plan tends to go. Like what if you're what are you looking to do in the first couple of terms? Like how? How is your ideal game going to play out? 36:09 Speaker 2 It's POD dependent because there was there was one game at Breach the Bay where I couldn't keep a seat to turn 1. Mystic Remora because it was all creature decks, but most games I would say turn one you're looking for an esper Sentinel or a fish. I don't just blind keep a turn 1 Esper Sentinel unless there's more in the hand. 36:28 Like if there's another top deck tutor that can get me somewhere, I'll be more likely to keep it. If there's a mockingbird or something, I'm probably more likely to keep it. But yeah, turn 1 Esper or fish, turn 2 study turn 2 tithe, turn 3 tithes. 36:44 Sometimes I'll keep if I'm if I'm seat one, I'm more likely to keep a turn 3 tithe rather than aggressively mulliganing Because I know probably on turn 2 someone else will try to cast a necro or a wrist stick or something along those lines where if there's a counterspell at the table, that's probably going to get used and then tithe it is safer to come down. 37:04 But yeah, I don't think there's ever a time where I would never keep a turn to ristic. I think that in every pod will always be good enough. There's like not much better you can ask for unless you're sitting down with three rows and you know you need to turn 1 fish to survive. There's been very rare times lately where turn 2 tied. 37:21 I can't keep if I'm in a late seat order and I know I'm going to lose on turn 2 to a bunch of turbo players unless I get a turn 1 fish. But yeah, that's that's pretty much the general gist. And like earlier I'd mentioned, gleaming splendor changes some things. Sometimes where I see a hand with Cannon or Zurda and I know I can get a turn 2 Splendor, I may be more likely to keep it if it's a slot pod. 37:42 If it's a turbopod, definitely not. But it's yeah, just getting out of fast engine on turn one or two and then following up with another engine on turn two or three. And just keep trying to slam as many engines as you can until you're eventually having 20 treasures on top of the stack with a win attempts. 38:00 Speaker 1 Heist and how how how early you try to play scroll typically. 38:07 Speaker 2 I don't even I don't even really cast scroll unless I'm actively winning the game. The only times I ever cast scroll early are if I kept like in let's say I'm mold to four or five, kept a turn to tied hand and I have nothing to do with the man. I'll just play scroll and pass. 38:22 So I sit there with you got that removal You're pointing your guns at people like you got the draw effect on end step if you really wanted. Otherwise, like I said, I'm just trying to slam engines over and over until I'm getting there. Scroll is usually just a, hey, I've had my tithe, I've made my copy of it. 38:39 Now I'm either going to flash out, scroll, or somehow I made it back to my turn and I'm just casting it and I'm going to pass until I have nap last player priority and then I'm winning the game so that my triggers are always resolving first. 38:53 Prioritizing Mana Engines in Max's Deck Yeah, so, and that's that's where I think our decks, our decks diverge quite a bit. Oh yeah, definitely is like I'm I'm looking to slam Skull pretty early. My ideal game plan is I'm looking for mana engines more than I'm looking for draw engines, which seems a little weird, but I'm still I'm, I'm not mulling away artistic study on turn 1 and turn 2, obviously, but that's not my priority. 39:15 My priority is I want to rush as fast as I can to get to Kinnen and Enduring Vitality, get those two cards into play and scroll as fast as I can. Because once I get that set up in place, I tend to win those games, right? That's that's how it tends to go. And to that effect, I have a lot of different ways to actually get to those two effects. 39:36 A big part of it is my interaction package is built around creatures. So I'm running both Gilda Drake and Volatile Storm Drake, which read as this is a Kinnon and this is a Kinnon, right? They're both Kinnons. They're not Drakes, they're Kinnons, right? 39:52 So I love being in a kitten pod because it just makes it easier for me to quickly approach the game plan that I want. It's also because I'm trying to slam scroll much earlier than you are. That's why I'm on Fierce Guardianship and Defecting Swat because those cards do tend to be on for me when I need them to be on. 40:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, that's honestly the biggest downside with my interaction package is that there was a time where I was running SWAT just because three mana redirected beseju is still relevant enough to play. But yeah, fierce. Completely useless for me, especially when I never cast. Yeah, biggest issue with my interaction package hands down. 40:26 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. And then the other thing is I'm on Mox Amber. I'm on Mox Amber because I'm running a few more legendary creatures in you. Like I'm on Shang Chi, I'm on Mr. Fantastic, I'm on Ragavant, I'm on Tivar. Those are all additional legendaries that turn on Mox Amber, and we're ready enough of those already anyway, because we're on Tatarutaru, we're on Cannon, we're on cabbage. 40:46 It's just a lot of legendaries at this point in this deck, so Mox Amber is pretty much always on for me if the game is going according to plan. So if if that's my plan A, my plan A is to get to Kinon and enduring as fast as I can. 41:03 If I can't do that, I am still falling back on heuristic studies of engines similar to what you're doing. But just generally anything that gives me lots of mana is a hand I want to keep. Almost preferential overdraw engines. 41:16 Speaker 2 Are there ever any times where you sit down with like 2 turbo players in your pod and you just struggle to Mulligan for the correct hand for like a Mystic or more aristic? Or are you still just keeping the creature Mulligan plan strong there? 41:31 Speaker 1 It depends what seat I'm in. Obviously a Mystic or more into Turbopod is all the cards that you want, right? So I'm always mulling for that if I can, if I'm playing against raw, for example, if I can slam an early Mystic Remora that I'm going to draw everything else that I need after that, right? 41:48 So I'm, I'm fine with that. But generally speaking, unless it's, unless I'm in that particular pod where it's a bunch of turbodex, if I'm in like the normal meta, I tend to see which is slop, slop, slop. I'm looking for the creature packages and I'm looking for lots of men. 42:04 Speaker 2 Yeah, I've definitely seen the meta start to have a retrace lately from the slop, at least in our area where there's there's still plenty of slop, but a lot more people have been leaning more towards turbo or those weird. I wouldn't really call it turbo, but those mid range creature combo decks where they're just really hard to interact with and it's sometimes a bit more iffy of what I'm supposed to Mulligan for in those games. 42:29 But yeah, I mean, if you're just going heavy with the creature combo and you're able to win before them, what is your average turn that you win on? 42:37 Securing the Win: On-Turn vs. Instant Speed I am curious about that. 42:39 Speaker 1 Usually it's turn 4, turn 5. 42:40 Speaker 2 OK, OK. 42:41 Speaker 1 Not that fast. 42:42 Speaker 2 It's about the same as. 42:43 Speaker 1 I usually win, but I win pretty decisively at that point on turn 4. Turn 5 like it. It's usually very hard to interact with. 42:50 Speaker 2 What would the percentage of times you win on your turn versus not on your turn B do you think? 42:56 Speaker 1 It's got to be like 90% on my turn. Very rarely do I win on other people's turn. Like there are ways to set that up. So for me, it's like how many of those pieces that I mentioned are in play? Like do I have, you know, in durian kitten, right, that I still need to get Shang Chi in a cost reducer, right? 43:12 So kitten flips can get me there, right? If I flip a Bioman right or I flip a Zerda that gives me another piece and then quarter calling can finish. Get me Shang chi right? There are ways to instant speed win. Obviously if I have a smothering tithe, I can always flash photography into a win right? 43:30 There are instant speed lines, but generally speaking, I'm not looking to do the sit behind the ristic study and then do everything at instant speed with a born like I'm not even I'm not even running bored, right? I'm not running any flash. 43:41 Speaker 2 Enablers. That's what I that's why I was asking yeah, because it seems like you're mainly winning on your turn. Is there a reason you're not running for like not running like grand Abolisher voice victory effects? Are they just too scary where they set off the chain of events on the stack? Or what's the? 43:57 Speaker 1 Philosophy there. I mean, generally speaking, if I resolve a grand abolisher, that means I can resolve a creature. And if I can resolve a creature, I probably don't need the grand abolisher because my combo is built around creatures anyway. I mean, like it it, it's still it like it does prevent me from doing things like avoiding a mind break trap, for example. 44:19 It's kind of the things that it really an abolisher would really protect me against. But I I'll go with a Ranger captain, for example, like I could still do things to to secure the wind. I just can't do the grand abolisher to particularly and specifically mind break trap. And then what? 44:35 Speaker 2 I was just curious on that since you're always winning on your turn. I would feel like those would be good includes but. 44:43 Speaker 1 Yeah, but like I said, I have found that 90% of the time if I like and I do the thing where I like, we talk about it after the game. Like, OK, if I had I had grand abolish for the deck for a long time, I'm like, OK, if I didn't have grand abolish for there, could you have stopped me? 44:58 And by and large, most of the time the answer was no, right just to test it. 45:04 Speaker 2 There's sometimes though, where if someone has like a removal piece, if your your pieces aren't out yet, then, you know, grand abolish it comes in clutch there because they're not able to remove your piece that you follow up with. But yeah, I get I get where you're coming from. Yeah, it's. 45:19 Speaker 1 Such, I think, I think every strategy, every deck is going to have some weaknesses and some strengths. And like I my, my big philosophy is you can't solve every weakness of the deck. So by and large, I want to have cards in the deck that synergize with what I'm doing. 45:35 And I don't want to run cards that just do like the one effect, right? Like grand evolved shirt does absolutely nothing other than protect a win. I can't use it defensively if I play it, it's actually a liability if I don't win, right, Because if it gets cloned. 45:52 So like for me, that's just kind of my philosophy. And I don't think, I don't think the deck needs it because it's it's like I'm getting to an unassailable position before I went. I'm not trying to just slam a win on the stack. I'm trying to get to the point where I just have way more resources than you. 46:08 So if you try to stop me, I'm going to find ways to to protect what I'm doing, whether that be like a, an LQRA deflecting slot. I'm going to have an answer that works just as well as the abolisher would have. And I'm going to have more resources. I'm going to have more of those effects than you are right at that point. 46:27 Evaluating Land Tutors and Graveyard Recursion It's definitely a weakness. I mean, I admit to it. It's definitely a weakness. Like I can't grant abolish her and win the game. Like, I'm not, I'm not able to do that at all, right? 46:38 Speaker 2 Is there a reason you're not on crop rotation with shifting Woodlands being a major recursion piece after removal hits? 46:48 Speaker 1 So I think I just prioritize the other cards that are in here, honestly. Crop Rot, I've played Crop Rot for a long time and the only targets for it really at this point were Guy's Cradle and Shifting Woodland, and it just didn't feel like that was enough most of the time. 47:03 Like so. 47:05 Speaker 2 That makes sense. Yeah. I mainly use mine for E zones, so it makes a lot of sense, but you don't need it. But I was just curious how often shifting Woodlands would come up, things like that. 47:15 Speaker 1 I've thought about, I've thought about cutting shifting with those many times just because, like how much recursion is enough? Because I have, if you look at it, I have Tivar, I have finale, I have shifting Woodlands, I have colossal sky turtle, all of which recur. I have sevines reclamation, right? 47:32 All of these cards get my cards packed. 47:34 Speaker 2 Right. Yeah, shifting is definitely one of those gotcha cards because it's so hard to interact. 47:38 Speaker 1 With yeah, the nice thing about it is I get to the situation towards the end of the game where it's been a long game and I'm on my turn and I'm casting the final piece. Let's say I'm casting a Shang Chi, for example, I probably already have shifting Woodlands on the battlefield and I'm like, OK, in my hand I have two counterspells. 47:54 And if those two counterspells don't work and my Shang Chi goes to the graveyard, then I have another Shang Chi with shifting Woodlands. So it's just like redundant ways to keep pushing through to try to win the game, right? 48:05 Live Mulligan Examples with John's Super-Skrull Yeah, why don't we do some mulligans and and actually look at some hands. I'm going to stop sharing and why don't we do your version first? All right, so here we go, first hand, first seven. So before you say anything, let me look at it and try to think of it from your perspective. Like I'm thinking OK, I don't see any engine here other than Tatara Tara and this is the first 7. 48:24 Speaker 2 You don't like you got. You don't. 48:25 Speaker 1 See the engine here I mean. 48:28 Speaker 2 What? It's a turtle and. 48:29 Speaker 1 Cabbage, man. Yeah, somebody's packed cabbage. 48:32 Speaker 2 Man, it's a turtle and cabbage man. OK, I don't think I'd keep it though, because you if if this Tinder wall wasn't a Tinder wall and it was a CRO Max or something of that nature, I would maybe keep it because then you have two mana on board to keep to then propel you forwards where it's easier to pay for that pact. 48:51 It's just yeah, you would you would need to get 6 foods in order to be able to pay for it and not die. It's definitely a risky hand if you're sitting down and there's like 3 turbodex in your seat. One you'd maybe think about it. There's just too much risk of they all have brain cells and think, hey, let's just not do anything. 49:11 Speaker 1 Let's just kill him and then we'll start the game, yeah? 49:14 Speaker 2 I had a hand like this that I mulliganed away at my recent tournament. So yeah, it's too risky. Yeah, restart this hand. 49:29 Speaker 1 No, I can't keep that. You got, if you draw land, then you're Gucci. But if you don't draw land, then this sucks, right? Because if you draw land, you've got to turn 2 tithe. Oh yeah, right. And then you've got the clone there on board. 49:41 Speaker 2 Already so with pact and force to protect it or will not to protect? 49:45 Speaker 1 It but how many how many lands are you on? 49:47 Speaker 2 I'm on 28, I'm on 28. So it's, it's a pretty high count. I, I don't think I'd keep this just because it's really risky. And if this is, this is a second seven. So like I, I'd rather go to six or five and just play to my outs. 50:01 Speaker 1 Yeah, if you don't hit the land then I'll draw jerk hard 1st to see if it's land. So let's see. 50:05 Speaker 2 Turn 1 Esper Hey, we got saved. 50:08 Speaker 1 Hey, yeah, that's not too bad. It's not too bad. 50:10 Speaker 2 Turn 1 Esper with. 50:11 Speaker 1 Let's go to six. Let's go to six. All right, so, well you got 2 engines here technically because you got the Archivist on the and the fairy. 50:19 Speaker 2 You don't keep this. It's archivist and mastermind are what I call follow up engines. I would never keep a hand when it when I would think I'm mulliganing for early engines. I'm talking the cool ones, Esper, remora, ristic, and tithe. Esper is only in there because it's a one mana turn 1 spell most of the time. 50:37 All these other small engines are just follow-ups with Hunting Grounds or Tithe because slamming A tithe having mana de flashes out is great, but other than that they're kind of weak. 50:46 Speaker 1 Yeah, I agree. 50:48 Speaker 2 So going to 5 now. 50:58 Speaker 1 Mystic Remora. No, you can't. You can't even get to it like this is a turn. It's a turn 3, turn 2 turn 3. No, it's a turn 2. Remora is the best it can do right? Because you can you can go crow box, hit something blue and then you can mystical tutor for like a you can't even do that. 51:17 Like you need a black card, even demonic tutor for it. Yeah, this sucks. This guy, this hand sucks. 51:21 Speaker 2 So going to four now or is this 544 right? 51:25 Speaker 1 We're we're 4. 51:26 Speaker 2 Now, yeah, I'd keep this. Oh. 51:31 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's fine. 51:33 Speaker 2 It's a fish. 51:36 Speaker 1 Right for the thing else. 51:37 Speaker 2 So it could be a turn 2 fish or it could be a turn 1 death right? Turn 2 you imp seal for soul ring and and no, because you can't limb duels for drawing, you would have to just go for a turn 3 tithe if you draw a land before then. 52:01 Speaker 1 I'm going all in on turn 2 fish here. That's all I'm doing. 52:03 Speaker 2 I think it's super pod dependent, but the fact that this can go turn 2 fish or turn 3 tithe I think is still good enough to keep it. 52:11 Speaker 1 Yeah, especially on A4. 52:13 Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. So this is this is a key. So let's say we'd bend those. What do we draw for turn? 52:18 Speaker 1 Actually, can you? Can you do you? Actually you could do. No, you can't do it. 52:21 Speaker 2 Never. So you play land, play death right and then wait till turn 2. What do we draw? A Ranger? That's the point where I would just. 52:30 Speaker 1 Do you just play Ranger for Esper and you? 52:33 Speaker 2 Could, but you don't have Manafort right away, I think. I think the safe bet is still to just imp steal grab A at this point wrist because you don't have a land turn 3 wrist stick. It's it sucks, but on a mold of four it's playable enough You have death right up there so that maybe tiny. 52:51 Speaker 1 Well, you have, you have options, you have options depending on the pod, right? Like you might just go turn 1 and seal instead of instead of death, right? If you're like playing, it's like a roll or something. 52:59 Speaker 2 Well, I drew the mind break trap, so I think I think that's good enough. But yeah, like you said, if it's a turbo pod, you go for fish. Yeah, let's yeah. 53:08 Speaker 1 Next to another next game. 53:10 Speaker 2 It always does the same. 53:11 Speaker 1 Yeah, please drawl in. Please, please, please drawl in. Drawl in this is. 53:15 Speaker 2 Insane. It's a first seven, but I think off the fact that I can follow up tides with Orms chair for protection, Zerda and Teferi if I need. Oh, it's a first seven. If this were A5 or A6, I'd keep it and play to my outs on the luck. 53:34 I think first seven you, you got to just Mulligan. You want more of a consistent guarantee. 53:40 Speaker 1 Yeah. 53:41 Speaker 2 I guess you can't play, you can't play greedy because you end up getting. 53:44 Speaker 1 Screwed every time. Yeah, it's too. It's too great. If you had, if you had another land there, you're Oh yeah, another land instead of instead of the Mox Diamond. If you had another land, it would be. It'd be great, yeah. 53:55 Speaker 2 All right, second seven, absolutely nothing but interaction. We go next. 54:01 Speaker 1 Yeah, not even 2 blue cards. 54:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, go to 6. This is a turn 2 study with Tithe Clever Cord in hand. That's amazing. It could be. It could just be turn 2 Tithe if you get Soul Rig or yeah, you don't need Mana Ball, you just get Soul Ring for more permanent man on the board. 54:21 Yeah, I think with the fact that you have Cord for Cannon and Clever Imp, you probably go for turn 2 tie as long as it's not a turbopod. If it's turbopod, you just go turn 2 Wrist stick. This is a super resilient hand because if you're late in seat order, you can just wait to see what everybody else does and how you're feeling and what you want to get. 54:37 Yeah. 54:39 Speaker 1 Yeah. 54:39 Speaker 2 That's a great hand. That's a great hand. Do you want to keep doing more? 54:43 Speaker 1 Let's do, let's do one more, OK, And then we'll switch to. We'll do my. 54:47 Speaker 2 First 7. 54:51 Speaker 1 This is an interesting hand because I like this hand because of Lotho, but I don't know if you like it because you don't like Lotho. Lotho's not as good in your deck as it is in mine, I think. 54:59 Speaker 2 I was, I was interested, I was waiting to hear what you were going to say. The only problems I have with this hand, I don't run Savannah so I would have to grab Bayou as my only fetchable here that casts Noble and still follows up with Lotho. 55:14 Next turn it's it's a turn to Lotho with copy enchantment and green Suns. I would have to be in a super slot pod to keep this especially this is a first 7 right? 55:30 Speaker 1 Yeah, first 7. 55:30 Speaker 2 There, Yeah. I don't think I'd ever keep this, actually. Not not I think about it in the first seven, yeah, you would always been this if there was another land or if it was another piece to make turn 1. Lotho maybe, but just not good enough. 55:45 Speaker 1 Fair enough. 55:46 Speaker 2 2nd 7 Do you see the line here? 55:52 Speaker 1 I'm looking at a cabbage merchant. Is that what you're looking at? Because I see a cabbage merchant. 55:57 Speaker 2 Yeah, you chromax either the fluster probably the fluster redirect just is too strong with the sage juice. I think to get rid of that comes down to you need it later. Flusters are better if it's a Realpod Yeah, I'd keep the fluster like if there's Turbodex redirect is going to win me the game later. 56:15 But yeah, you you chromax you pitch one of these two it doesn't matter. You fetch first to filter because you already have your second land and then you crop rotation for ancient tomb and then you have your four mana right there for a turn to green Suns for cabbage. That's that's why I like crap rotation. 56:32 It's early game. It's a right of flame a lot of problems like that yeah, it does early game it's a right of flame late game it's an elvish spirit guide. Plus crap rat gets me the colour pip I need or it gets me emergency zone, yeah. 56:43 Speaker 1 Well, you're also running City of Traders, right? So you have, Oh yeah, yeah, an extra target for for that man acceleration. 56:48 Speaker 2 I I never liked to target city of traders early, because then when you follow up with the land on the next turn, you have to sacrifice it. It's always just ancient too. We don't use our life total other than Limbdul's vault. Life total doesn't matter. Yeah. 57:02 Speaker 1 Yeah, All right, cool. So let's let's switch over and I'll do, I'll do some. All right, let me get to my. 57:08 Speaker 2 Here it is. 57:10 Speaker 1 Make sure it's up to date here and then I will share. 57:16 Live Mulligan Examples with Max's Super-Skrull I am going to have no clue what your lines are here, so if you look to me to try to figure it out, I'm going to struggle. 57:21 Speaker 1 Oh, I'm going to make you though. I'm going to make you try. I'm going to make you try. All right, so here, here we are Here we are. I'm going to go play test. I'm going to before I do anything, I'm just going to restart it a couple times here just to loosen it up. OK, here we go, first 7. 57:35 Speaker 2 Nothing, I think with only one land. No man acceleration, no dorks, nothing. 57:41 Speaker 1 Yeah, this is pretty bad. I mean, the Mockingbird is the only thing that makes it even like we're thinking about, but there's only two-minute. I need 3 minute really get going. Definitely not keeping this. So we'll go to 2nd 7, OK? 57:57 Speaker 2 Is that a? Is that a noble hierarch there? 58:00 Speaker 1 As a noble hierarch, training grounds, fellwork stone scrubland Crow mocks and Otawara and Ranger Captain. 58:09 Speaker 2 I think this would be super dependent on what seed order you were and who's in the pod. If there's any deck before you that has green, you can chromox something away. Doesn't matter what. Play a land, play the felwar and if it taps for green you have the noble which is a lot of mana and then a follow up with training grounds. 58:28 Or if you want to keep Ranger captain to mockingbird and have two Ranger captains the next turn like that is another option. But what do you what do you think about? 58:36 Speaker 1 This I like this because it's a turn to Ranger Captain plus S for Sentinel most likely. The only thing I have to really is I don't want to really pitch the training grounds. So I'm really hoping to Draw Something that's a non land card that I can stick under the chromox so I can go. The idea is going to be hopefully chromox, whatever I draw goes under it, Scrubland fellware stone into noble Hireright and then next turn I get to untap. 59:02 I get to play the Ranger Captain, the S for Sentinel and the training grounds right? Which feels real good to have that on turn 2. But all that if. 59:10 Speaker 2 Yeah, it depends on pips from the Cromox and from the Fell War, but probably should be able to cast the range. Should be able to. 59:16 Speaker 1 Be this is this is my this is my turn to without draws at this point, right. So I should be able to go white, white blue Ranger captain find Esper Sentinel. Hopefully this taps for blue or for white and hopefully this taps for blue or for white. And then I can play both. 59:32 Yeah, that's kind of ideal. Of course, this all depends on what I draw. And I could be a sad, sad panda immediately. 59:39 Speaker 2 The one time you don't want to draw a land is when it's always a land. 59:41 Speaker 1 Right, well, I'm on and I'm only on 26 lands, so there you go. So that's fine. I will happily. I will happily Chromeox. 59:49 Speaker 2 Asyl, that's crazy, but I guess you're getting a Ranger out of it, so it makes sense. Yeah. 59:53 Speaker 1 Right, exactly. So that's my turn 1 and then turn 20 that's. 59:58 Speaker 2 That's disgusting. That's so good. 1:00:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. So we're going to go like this and yeah, if you the library find the Esper, right, or a mockybird, depending what's on the board, maybe it's up better, right. And there's that's my that's a turn to that feels pretty damn good, Pretty damn good. 1:00:17 Right now. I'm still not at scroll, but I don't really need to be because I can quarter calling. I'm going to be quarter calling for Cannon pretty much. 1:00:25 Speaker 2 If you get a third green pip right? 1:00:28 Speaker 1 So green, green, yeah, I need another green pip for sure. Yeah, I do, but hopefully S percent and will provide. Yeah. All right, cool. All right, let's do another one first set. That's an auto keep. 1:00:43 I like a flash photography. 1:00:45 Speaker 2 That's an auto keep. 1:00:47 Speaker 1 Yeah, it depends on the pod a little bit. Just want to make sure that it's likely that people are going to play something that this works with. But yeah. 1:00:54 Speaker 2 I don't I don't even think the flash photography matters that you you have 4 men off the bat with a turn with a turn to land and bio man up. You've misstep for early problems like yeah. 1:01:06 Speaker 1 Turn to scroll. Worst case scenario, turn to scroll into into bio man into draw cards. All right, pretty. 1:01:13 Speaker 2 Pretty Is that scrubland there or? 1:01:15 Speaker 1 Savannah. 1:01:16 Speaker 2 Right. Well, you don't have turn to scroll then because you need your triple black pips, right? 1:01:22 Speaker 1 Yeah, I still need to find black mana for sure, yeah. 1:01:24 Speaker 2 But it's it's still a lot of mana with bio man and flash photo. 1:01:28 Speaker 1 It's pretty good. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. Not even. 1:01:31 Speaker 2 More mana cheese. 1:01:33 Speaker 1 Yeah, OK, all right, so and and always I'm always thinking, OK, those four pieces. Do I have one of those four pieces? Yes, I have one that's pretty good. Do I have one of the pieces of the tithe combo? Yes, I do. So I have two pieces that I feel pretty good about and IA shit ton of mana. 1:01:50 This wasn't here, but shoot some of mana means cards. 1:01:52 Speaker 2 Yeah, and I mean, if there's any Kinnon in your pod, you flash photo the Kinnon, right? 1:01:57 Speaker 1 Or whatever I need. Yeah, yeah, whatever I need. If someone plays a tie, I'm in good shape, right? Someone plays a wristic. I mean, pretty good, pretty good. All right, let's do. Let's do another one. These have been quick so. 1:02:11 Speaker 2 I'll see. 1:02:14 Speaker 1 OK, Yeah. 1:02:15 Speaker 2 I don't think there's enough there to do anything, yeah. 1:02:17 Speaker 1 There's no mana. Need mana to play magic restart. OK, again, not any speed mana. So like I could go play, you know, turn 4 Mr. fantastic. 1:02:33 That's not good. Now we're going to go, we'll go to six. Oh God, we had a land. 1:02:39 Speaker 2 There's 0 lands. That's rough. Well, well, well, I was going to say there's a chance you draw the land, you can darker it into the falwar for Todd. Turn 2 tattoo, turn 3 tithe, I mean. 1:02:54 Speaker 1 Stop it, get some help, stop it can't do that. All right, so this hand, I actually I kind of like it. I'm trying to think if it's worth keeping that because I have this right, which means I can to very quickly get to a like a cabbage merchant probably depending on the pod or depending on what I draw. 1:03:16 Maybe I want an enduring or there's a lot of this. This gives me a lot of options, right? And I'm at six, right? So. And I don't need lots of lands because I'm going to create mana without lands eventually. 1:03:28 Speaker 2 It's risky. You're exiling and bottoming both I. 1:03:32 Speaker 1 Think I am getting rid of the veil? This is how I'm doing it. This is what I'm. 1:03:36 Speaker 2 Doing Yeah, I think that would be most likely. That sounds correct to me. Are you right and? 1:03:41 Speaker 1 I'm gonna put this on the bottom. 1:03:43 Speaker 2 So I'm just gonna ask you. 1:03:44 Speaker 1 Right. And then I'm gonna go this, Excel this, then we're gonna play this, play that. 1:03:53 Speaker 2 See what you draw. 1:03:54 Speaker 1 Did I draw a card? I don't think I drew a card. Let me try a card first. Yeah. So this is on the battlefield Draw return. I would get a land back anyway. There you go right. So then we go like that and then on turn 2. 1:04:08 Speaker 2 Is there? 1:04:09 Speaker 1 I was flooding out. I was about to ask. 1:04:10 Speaker 2 Is there a reason you didn't fetch there to reduce your chance of drawing a land? 1:04:15 Speaker 1 Just because I'm lazy and I'll feel like clicking the search library button while while we're doing Moxfield. But yeah, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna Nature's rhythm here. And I'm probably just getting cabbage Merchant is probably the right play. 1:04:31 I get to hold up the silence, so I'm probably fine. And then I'll get back around to my turn and I'm playing scroll and I'm gonna drum my way out of it. So it's. 1:04:38 Speaker 2 Pretty Is there a world in which you would harmonize before playing scroll with your build? Or do you always just get scroll out and then from there? 1:04:46 Speaker 1 So no, there is a world. But if I do that, I'm not going to be getting cabbage merchant right, because a harmonized with a cabbage merchant, it doesn't really help that much because Kenna doesn't accelerate cabbage merchant. So it's kind of problematic. 1:05:01 What I might do it for is I might do it for a clever impersonator, depending on the. 1:05:05 Speaker 2 Situation that makes sense. 1:05:08 Speaker 1 But I can't even do that right cuz cabbage merchant's for two. 1:05:11 Speaker 2 Well yeah, but you can pay more than just the 2. 1:05:15 Speaker 1 I can't, right? Because I. 1:05:16 Speaker 2 Go what? Depends how many foods you make on the 3rd circle. That's what I'm thinking. 1:05:20 Speaker 1 True. Yeah, Fair enough. Fair enough. If I get, if I have a lot of food, then I might, I might be willing to do that and get a clever, Yeah. 1:05:25 Speaker 2 That's why I was asking, I wasn't sure if like because you don't run heartwood. Is scroll basically your best draw engine creature? 1:05:35 Speaker 1 I mean it's. 1:05:35 Speaker 2 Oh wait, why? Why wouldn't you just go and get Mr. Fantastic following turn? 1:05:40 Speaker 1 Oh, that's pretty hot. You're right. That's. 1:05:42 Speaker 2 Bad. There's got to be something here Better. 1:05:44 Speaker 1 Than Oh yeah, that's so juicy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like it. I like it harmonized. We get we get we get Mr. Fantastic. And now foods are driving. Yeah. 1:05:53 Speaker 2 Now you just got to pray. No one swords into your cabbage because of that. 1:05:57 Speaker 1 Yeah, because I have nothing to to protect it at this point. So, yeah, but it's still not bad. It's still not bad. All right, let's do one more and then we'll call it a day. All right. So close, so close. 1:06:16 Speaker 2 If it wasn't a first seven, if it was like A5, I'd greedy keep because if you have the chance to draw a land play turn with Lotho then Max diamond for a treasure it seems really good. But the fact that it's, it's a first seven and it's greedy. 1:06:31 Speaker 1 Yeah, you can't keep it. 1:06:32 Speaker 2 Because you're not on dry at Arbor, right? 1:06:35 Speaker 1 I am not. I often thought about that card for exactly this situation. 1:06:39 Speaker 2 But it's not. It's not worth it long. 1:06:40 Speaker 1 Right. See. Not a length. Yeah. So we're gonna. We're gonna. What was that? First seven. All right. Second seven. Oh, yeah, it's the first seven. We definitely not keep it auto. OK. One, two. Yeah. Turn 2 risk steady. Hell yeah. 1:06:55 Speaker 2 And you? 1:06:55 Speaker 1 Got with with amazing follow up Yeah, you got everything. Oh God, that's so good that's so good cuz you go we go like this then yeah well, it gets even better right And then you got turn 2 risk to study. We draw lots of cards and we win the game. 1:07:11 It's just how that goes. Yeah delicious. Cool. 1:07:16 Super-Skrull's Unexplored Potential and Community So hopefully this all made sense. Any any any final thoughts about my list? Would you play it? Would you consider it? 1:07:24 Speaker 2 So so the problem is with the creature combos. I Yoshi Thras has my heart there. If I ever go back to a creature combo deck, I think I have to go back to Yoshi Thras. I think scroll is just like it's very mastermind Thracios in five colors in the command zone. 1:07:40 But the best way I like to look at it, I know there's I think there's four archetypes total you could play with it, probably 3 that are viable. And I think these are these two are the best. And it's just going to be very interesting to see what other brews people come up with in the future and what people start doing with the wall combos. 1:07:59 You know, a lot of weird stuff with intruder alarm, Harmon and natural, naturalize, vitalize, mobilize, vitalize and mobilize those type of cards. Seems like there's a lot of unexplored potential for a scroll with the wall. 1:08:14 Scott Bose for sure the future. I'm interested to see where I go. 1:08:20 Speaker 1 Yeah, all I could say is that your list obviously makes sense. I think it's it's a really way to a cool way to play the game. You get to play red. I'm not really playing red. You are. And Fred, it's an adrenaline pumping color band. It's just fun. 1:08:31 Speaker 2 To play 5 red cards. I don't know if I play red all that much. It's. 1:08:34 Speaker 1 What you have you have breach though. What are what are the red cards bad? 1:08:37 Speaker 2 OK, good point, Good point. I mean, yeah, I just have the rituals, the red blasts and breach that. That's about it. 1:08:45 Speaker 1 You just just breach is the only red cards you need. 1:08:47 Speaker 2 True, true. 1:08:48 Speaker 1 You know, and Dockside. Oh, wait, sorry, but yeah, yeah, all I can say about my list is you. Most people are going to look at it and go what the fuck? I don't understand but all I can say is try it. Try. 1:09:03 Speaker 2 It the Mulligan slipped a lot more consistent than mine for sure. The way the way you were able to Mulligan and you didn't go past 6. I think every single time you had some game plan to do. That's that's my struggle. Like half the games I'm mowing to five, I'm mowing to 4. 1:09:18 Quite a few times I've mowed to three, two. It's rough sometimes, but you got to just hope for the best and get yeah. 1:09:30 Speaker 1 Yeah, but they're both, I'm telling you, both decks are great. They're both great ways to play the game. I think Super Scroll is way better than people think it is and I think we're going to see a lot more of it. I know I'm playing it. I am full time Super scrolling now. Basically have unsleeved my TNT deck and I am all in on Super Scroll. 1:09:48 Speaker 2 I'll never unsleep any of my other decks, but yeah, I think Super Scroll is my commander for life now, yeah. 1:09:56 Speaker 1 Hell yeah. Hell yeah. 1:09:56 Speaker 2 I'm excited, hopefully. 1:09:57 Speaker 1 Everybody enjoyed this dude. Oh, go ahead. When we get to play. Oh yeah, we. 1:10:01 Speaker 2 Got to I'm waiting for when we get to bump into each other at a tournament and we have to play against. It is going to be a slug fest. 1:10:07 Speaker 1 Oh, it's going to be so fun, dude. It's going to be such a fun game. Where can people find you if they want to ask you questions? 1:10:13 Speaker 2 Tournament in person? I don't really have any social, pretty much just discord. I would say the Super scroll server. I assume you're going to have that link that's that's honestly the best place to get a hold of me. If people ask questions in there. You and I are both pretty active, at least for now. 1:10:29 While it's a small server, if it grows and a bunch of people are spamming all the time, I'm not sure how much I'll be able to respond to everything, but I'm always happy to answer questions to help when I can. 1:10:41 Speaker 1 Awesome, awesome. So hopefully everybody enjoyed this. If you did, please give me a like, give me a subscribe. Check out my other videos. And John, thanks so much for joining. 1:10:50 Speaker 2 Me. Yeah, really. Thanks for having me on our. 1:10:51 Speaker 1 Conversation hell yeah and hopefully people will play super scroll let's go let's. 1:10:57 Speaker 2 Put the top of the leaderboard next time.