WILLIAM H. MACY Talks Fargo, Auditions, PTA

I read this American masterpiece. Yes, I was doing back, no I was terrified that I wouldn't get it. I was up all night, everybody in New and L.A. was there. I probably memorized my entire part the whole morning, yeah. Yeah. I found out they were auditioning in New York. I got my Lutheran ass on an airplane and I crashed that audition and I said I really want this part. I'm scared you're going to screw up your movie by not casting me. That was not a good idea what I did. It worked. I don't recommend it. What'd you say? I said you're going to fuck up your movie if you don't cast me. I think I went farther in Toll Ethan who had a new puppy that I would kill the dog if he didn't cast me. Thank God he laughed. Hello and welcome back to the Adam Friedland show. It's Adam Friedland. Off top I just have to say I'm going back on the road. It's perhaps an economic necessity. Oh God. I'm going back on the road folks. This year, 2026, I will be hitting that next year, 2026, I will be hitting a city near you. First date, Seattle, Washington, January 22nd to the 24th. Five shows. Get your tickets at emeraldcitycomedy.com. There's also a link in the description. My man over here, Mr. Knows what year it is is going to be there too. Mr. Caleb Pitts. Give it up for him. Also, I'd like to, as always, thank our members for supporting us here on youtube.com. You make the show possible. Members get access to all of our episodes early, and if you join on the second or third tiers, you get your name in the credits of this fine program. If you'd like to join the Friedland Family Foundation, you can do so by clicking the join button here on YouTube at the top of the page or clicking the link in the description below. Also, the support is on patreon if you prefer the link for that is also in the description. Finally, merch is available. Go to the atomfreedland.show to check it out, shirts, hats, some hoodies, we got the fricking sick. You want to, just, yeah, my man got the hoodie over there. They're all available right now, get them before they're gone. They're flying like hotcakes. My guest this week is Emmy Award-winning actor William H. Macy. I call him Bill, personally, but you probably will, you know him as William. William is known for many roles in film and television, gritty properties like Fargo and Shameless. Bill, on the other hand, is known by me for roles of some of my favorite films, The Tale of Dispr. What is this? Desperate. Are these movies that he was in? The great movies. They're great movies. So we're doing the thing again where Caleb writes it and then I kind of, I'm not good at reading. Bill, on the other hand, is known by me for roles in some of my favorite films, like The Tale of Despairot or Mount Medouc. He's in Mar Medouc, the dog one? That's funny. Okay. See, some enjoy mystery horror romance I like talking animal movies. There's a certain funniness to an animal that speaks English, and to sit across from a veteran of the genre, a man portrayed not only Dr. Don, and to sit across from a veteran of the genre, a man who portrayed not only Don Twumbly, but also Disparo's father, Lester, what a treat. Sometimes I can't believe my life. Ladies and gentlemen, William, H. Macy, wow, it's a nice pick. The eye is too phenomenal. Give it up for him, guys. And Tom, his eyes are man, Kayla Pits. I love my team. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, our next guest is a legendary American actor. It's a great honor. Will you match Macy everyone? Give it up for guys. Boys, a lot of noise. What do you think? 40,000 people. 40,000. Don't get up. Don't get up. Stop, you stop. We really let out the insane to silence with these guys. We're in an empty room. We're going to do a dog plea here in the empty room. Would you say that if you were shooting a picture and you know, no, I would only say that on your show. Thank you. Sir, thank you so much for coming on. So he's a huge fan. He has a missing single episode. Apparently that's what you're talking about before. I think I missed one. Yeah, I think he's missed every episode. It's a great honor. I've been watching a lot of interviews with you and doing quite an extensive research. And you go, your bill. Yeah. And I can say bill. Yes, she can. That makes me feel a famous kind of, you know what I mean? I'm glad. I remember like what a cheap date, but I'm glad. I just want to go into you a little bit. But you're upbringing and they kind of just work our way out from there. Like I think you grew up, you're born Miami grew up around Atlanta and Maryland. Is that correct? Correct. Your father was a bomber in World War II. So it would be 17 and World War II. He was a pilot. Did he get shot down? No. There was no Hogan's Heroes situation with him. No. When the eighth Air Force first went to England, they would send over 80 planes in 20 would come back. It was just this shy of a suicide mission. By the time a dad got there, 80 would go over and only 20 would not come back. So it was death defying man. From what I understand the RAF, they would do nighttime just like bombing raids and they just bomb indiscriminately, but the United States Air Force, we can't hit anything. Yeah. We would go surgical and that was the thus it was a lot more dangerous. It was a big controversy because in daylight bombing, you stood a much bigger chance of getting shot down. By the time my dad got there, the Luftwaffe was pretty much blown out of the skies and that was one thing, but there was still a lot of flack. Yeah. I mean it would have been fun to be in one of those prank kind of prisoner of war camps where they were like. Yeah, the common dot jokes. That's what they made it look like Hogan's heroes. Yeah, I took my dad to see well, a war movie that was about B17s and bomber pilots. I said, what'd you think? And he said, that's ludicrous. It's ludicrous. First of all, you can't talk. You can't take the headsets off and talk and even with the headsets, you can bet there were four Rolls Royce engines. Rolls Royce engines with no mufflers on them. My dad had death. My dad had hearing loss from that. And the second thing, of course, in this movie, they thought bombing was not dramatic enough. But you know, interstitiary fighting between the bombardier and the pilot. My father said, oh my God, that's the stupidest premise ever. When you were up there, man, you didn't think of anything except getting back alive. I mean, it was just like literally like 10% would come back. At the beginning. Yeah, my grandfather was a cartographer in the RAF actually. And he was stationed in Italy. And then after he died, I guess the flirt back in the day instead of like messaging someone on Instagram was a snapshot. It was like a passport size photograph. And then the girl would write a note on the back. And he, after he died, my father and I were emptying out his office. And there were stacks of these pictures of Italian women in post-war Italy that were like, bottom the, I've never known. I love her like you. And I was like, he was cleaning up. But yeah, I mean, I think being in the air, I think was a sexy thing to check. Oh, man. One time I was living in Chicago. I grew up in Cumberland, Maryland. So you had to go to Baltimore, Washington Airport. And I said, pop, can you take me? He said, yeah, I'll take you. I said, we should leave it blah, blah, blah to get there. It's a long drive. And he said, no, I'll take you. I said, yeah, I'm just saying, I got to be there an hour. I said, what are you saying? He said, I'll take you. I said to Chicago. And he drove me to Chicago. We took two days to do it. We hadn't gotten out of the driveway when my dad started telling me about every woman he had ever slept with. How bad was this war? You know, he said, these guys were getting trim left and right, not in the Pacific, but crazy. And the second the war was over, it went back to that puritanical thing. But during the war, all bets were off. He's like, I'm not Lutheran. You know, all the way to Chicago. I sat there with my mouth open, just listening, soaking it up. And it was before cell phones. If I could have recorded that. Oh, my God. Oh, my word. Yeah, it's nice to know that our, you know, the older members of our family, you know, we're cool guys. Yeah, it makes you feel good. I'm glad my grandfather. Yeah, his older brother was a gunner in the RAF, also stationed in Italy. And a friend of his had a He took a shift for a guy, and he was shot down by the Nazis of a treat. And he's my father's name sick, actually Max Friedland, he's like, that's the one instance of heroism in our entire family tree, he's that guy, but anyway, I want to get to you. So from what I understand, you knew that you wanted to go into acting and dramatic arts fairly young. What were some films and performances and actors that kind of spoke to you when you were growing up? I did it in high school, and I didn't fail, which was new for me, and then I did it in college, and then I finally went to a hippie college in Vermont called Goddard College, and that's where I met David Mammoth. And he taught me everything I know. Because you're a mentor, I finally said it. My mentor, my pal, and he gave me my career, and he taught me everything I know about acting. And he's the smartest guy I've ever met. Present company, excluded. And I saw the French connection with Gene Hackman, and I thought if I could ever act like that, that was my goal and remains my goal. How old were you when you saw that? 20s. In your 20s. And you were like that man. Have you ever been in a car chase? I mean, the actors don't drive the cars, but I haven't. But in that one, this is before they started to crack down on that stuff. Gene Hackman was driving. And I've read stories that they owned a bunch of the streets, but not all of them. Oh yeah, and it's also Marseilles. It's in Marseilles, right? Which is like a mafia city. No, New York. But it starts off in Marseilles. Yes, it does. But the car chase. But those are like, yeah, under the elevated trains, of course, yeah. Oh my God. So those old Gene Hackman? Rest in Peacebo. I never got to act with him. Dave did a movie with him. He was never bad. I saw him in some stinky movies. He was never bad. It's true. Yeah, it's really just like, I don't think there's anyone that's you know, I mean, you're self-included actually. The two of you might be the most just every time you're on screen, everyone's like, oh, correct. Like my pal. Yeah. It feels that way. Yeah. Oh, that's a good thing. When you were studying with David Mammoth, like as you said, he was your mentor. Like what specifically were the things than the lessons that you he imparted on you that you've taken into your career? Well, it was a hippie college. So there were no grades and no tests and no requirements. So we did theater all day. Yeah. And all night sometimes. And there was a class of about 30. He had gone, he graduated from Goddard and he'd gone to New York and he was in one, did one year of the neighborhood playhouse. And then he came back then. So it's the technique is Stanislavsky through Meisner roughly. And he refined it. When I start talking about acting technique, I can see the will to live drain from people. So just stop me. No, I'm getting a free class right now. Basically, the cameras aren't even on. I'm a schizophrenic person who's recreated the Dick Kavichose and you did all my life savings and when they run out, I'm not gonna be able to talk to that. Well, that's sad. I'm glad I made it. Made it before that happened. Yeah, yeah, hopefully. Anyway, he took the Meisner technique, which is all about the objective as opposed to the emotions. And he refined it even more. So the lessons that he gave me. He said, it doesn't matter how you feel. It's what you do. I'm talking about you acting when the light, when the cameras are rolling or the curtain is up. It's what you do about it. Don't worry about how you feel about it. He said, he taught us that the most, the founder of the feast is the writer and that it's not an actor's job to be funny. It's the writer's job to be funny or dramatic and that our job was to find a solution to these problems and never give up. So irrespective of what you're doing, figure out what to do to fix it and let the rest go hang. He taught us that the audience only wants to know one thing and one thing only, what happens next. That's it. He simplified it. And you know what? It stuck with me for my whole life. He said, as an actor, if anyone ever treat you with disrespect, quit. Leave the room. Don't ever let that happen. And this was back in a time when acting teachers were notoriously vicious, notoriously vicious. Like cold leaders in fact, yes, rip your soul out of you. They would have convinced you that you were like molested, even if you weren't like they were like, yeah, I've had friends have horror stories about acting teachers. Oh God. Yeah. Awful. Awful. And I loved him for that because it's true. It's true. I've been talked to a really famous teacher one time. We were drinking. I ended up standing on the table saying, you're a fucking asshole. He thought it was his job to rip people down emotionally just to leave them in tatters and then rebuild them. Yeah. And I said, man, I'd love to teach you how to teach and rip you down and destroy your self esteem so that I can make you a better teacher. Also, you're teaching because you don't know how to fuck that. I mean, you said it. I didn't. I mean, it's like sometimes when you read a review, like that's why like Roger Ebert made like an incredible movie, right? And I think like to some extent, it's like if if you're talking to shit on some other people, like you better, you better just be able to do it yourself, you know, like beyond the value of the dollars is an incredible picture. But I will say Dave Mammoth is a magnificent teacher and director and he knows more about storytelling anybody I've ever met. He couldn't act his way out of a paper bag and he's the first to say that. Well, he's a filmmaker, you know. He's a filmmaker. Yeah. And as you know, play right in the screen right. I mean, it's so funny to imagine him at a hippie college though. That's the visual that I'm getting because he's just like a fucking alpha male. Like Sergeant Major General, you know, and like he's surrounded by like the dawning of the age of Aquarius. And it's not wrong. It's not wrong. We showed up. The first thing he said is, you got to be on time. If you're not on time, I'll kick you out of the class. And on time means five minutes early. After that, I'll lock the door. And all this, you know, my hair was down to here. I think I was stoned for the first five classes anyway, because I was stelling all day anyway. And, you're like, hey, president, what makes it me? Yeah. What on time? And what's your problem? She's chill out. And so you got your started theater in Chicago with him. Is that correct? Yeah, my friend Steven Shactor and me after graduating from Goddard, we wanted to start a theater company. That's another thing Dave taught us. You can sit by the phone or you can make your own fun. And we decided to make our own fun. So we went to LA, tried to start a theater there, which is like opening a Sunday school in Beirut. It was just not a good idea. And Dave called up and he said, "Bully, Stevie, I just wrote this place called Squirrels. Come on to Chicago." And he just done sexual perversity in Chicago, which was a huge hit, did it at the Organic Theater Store Gordon directed it. And, yeah, he was the, the, he was the, sorry, he was the, I saw your daughter. Yeah. Does she know the show? She might know the show. I'll bet she does. She knows everything. She'll tell you it's good. There was a Paul Simon, a Simon and Garfalko concert went time when the phone rang in our Garfunkles. It stopped and he stopped the band and he said, "You better get that. It could be important." He was a, he was a good actor too. Yes, he was. I just lost carnal knowledge. Fabulous. What a movie. Mike Nichols. Had you ever worked them before? No. No. No. He came out of the theater as well. You know, you could tell in the, in his, in his, Nichols? Yeah, yeah. Yes, second city. Him and Elaine May were just like, I got to work on the lane once. She is, she was the best. Yes. The fucking best. I, I saw her in a Kenneth Longerkin play. Yeah. Probably eight years ago. And it, like, floored me. She played like a matriarch that was like early stage dementia. And the whole family was fucking sick and tired of her. And it's just, it, it breaks you that way. Oh, man. What was you like to interact with? Pretty crazy. She had written the play. It was called Mr. Gogel and Mr. Prin at Lincoln Center. And she was, she's a cook. She's an eccentric and delightful. And smart as a whip. Indefatigable knowledge of all things theatrical. Yeah. It was something. I found out when she made Ishtar, she was one of two women in the director's guild. Jeez. the time. I had no idea. Yeah. I liked Ishtar. Remember how they just skewed it? I liked Ishtar. I loved it. Well it was because she was spending so much money. The camel. The camel sunk. Well you know what I really liked about that movie was that they got them to play against type. So totally. Dustin Hoffman's the pimp and Warren Beatty's the Nebysh. I know. Dustin Hoffman's famous cast. And they were both great. Oh my god. We love them. They're amazing. Yeah. You can't what's the song you can't get respect if you play it in courtium. I love funny songs. Yeah. You know that as a through line throughout that movie is hilarious as well. You know I hate that I have this instinct to do it but we're really annoying people but it's just so funny because every name that comes up you're just surrounded by Jewish people. It was good for me. One I was exotic. Yeah yeah no literally. I still had a bit of a southern accent. There was a million basically. Yeah right. So they sort of marveled at me and every once in a while when we'd read something by AR gurney or something I had to translate. This is what wasps do and and they've once described me as being hybrically challenged. He was on me all the time. He was a wild man. He was like a gambler and like a smoke. He had cigars and stuff like that. Yeah. He's kind of like a like a what you call it like like pecking powers. Well it is strangely he's the most courtly and gentlemanly man I've ever met. Yeah he's really good that way and a laser sharp mind. I've seen him on a set greet the extras and introduce himself and 14 hours later he says good night to them by name. Oh he has that like Bill Clinton. Yeah the quality. Yeah. He's like just knows people's and yeah I mean man's a genius. You told a story about in Chicago when he was living in the hotel on a podcast that I heard once and I just thought it was so funny with a hotel Lincoln. Yeah yeah but you were saying that like he would just disappear for weeks on end and you're like he's on another gamble and bender and well it he put it this in American Buffalo which was based on his card game which was uptown at a Kenny's resale shop and Dave was teach and Kenny was Donnie and I got to meet Kenny and you'd know whether David won or not by his wristwatch. If he had his wristwatch he was doing fine. If he had no wristwatch we had to get the check. Did you have some rough customers after him? Do you like don't pick up the phone today. You didn't have some like you didn't have some guys that tough tough guy thing that he puts on me's a lover not a fighter although he's been taking jujitsu for a hundred years so I wouldn't even tackle him. I would tackle David mammoth without even saying hello. I would take him down. You read a lot of the original productions of a lot of his and you've been in a lot of pictures he's made but like from there like what was the decision to kind of move to New York and then eventually LA and like get in get in the business make movies be in movies. We were pretty snobby in Chicago. I was there a little less than ten years. We started a theater company called the St. Nicholas Theater Company. We were a part of that off-loop renaissance as they called it. Our theater was on Holstead Street and we were the bees knees. We started the theater with three solid gold hits. You had to know me to get a ticket. We were sold out. Reality set in shortly after that. But I think in the back of my mind I always wanted to make movies. But at the time we thought I don't need to go to New York. It's a better theater here than in New York. It was the same. I do stand up so I started in Washington DC and you started at Tertiary scene that a certain point you have to go to New York really if you want to make a movie. You were working for about ten years prior to like I think in the 80s and early 90s you were like auditioning all the time. You were on the fourth ever episode of Law and Order. I was in the first Law and Order as the fourth. I didn't know that until a couple of years ago and someone said you were in the pilot of Law and Order. Which is how actors paid their rent in New York for many years. That and Spencer for higher. Is that a demoralizing process like going out all the time like going to set for a couple days just like being on that treadmill? Yes. Yes. Yes. Auditioning is awful. If they were a better way I'm sure someone would have thought of it but it's soul sucking. It's really rough. Of the good things that have happened to me right after my wife and daughters not having to audition is really up there. Did that happen after Fargo I would assume? What a year or two after Fargo. Because you got the nomination. I don't know. Someone should have told me just get an Oscar nomination you can quit auditioning. I should have done it years earlier. Do you know if you're going to win or not when you're the you don't know. They don't tip you off. Did you have like a prepared face for like if you didn't win? A speech? No a face. Like if they say someone else's name like you don't want to be like. Yes. Yes. Because a couple of guys have. Yeah. Yeah. Or women. What do you do with your fans? And the winner is you pretend you're really happy that they won because who won that year? It was Cuba. Cuba good. Oh that was rough. That was that was a big year. I mean your performance in Fargo and I want to get into it a little bit is just like the man is in hell. Like the man is just in literal hell. To genius script. How did you walk us through the auditioning for it? I mean you'd been on ER at that point for a couple of seasons. So and you know like you're making a living you know you're paying the dam rent. Yeah and move to LA. And I had enough juice that I was working all the time guest stars and that kind of thing. Yeah. And so how did you know that this? Because from what I understand like you kind of pushed it real hard. Yeah. Yeah. Dave Mammott taught me everything I know. I think I'm pretty good at reading scripts. And here's what I do. And I suggest it. I try to read them in one sitting. I kind of skip over the stage directions because they're nonsense. They don't help you. And if you can see the film in your mind's eye you can read it if you skip the stage directions. You can pretty much read it in the link the time the film will be. When you see it in your mind's eye it's pretty easy to decide which is which are the good ones and which are the bad ones. Yeah. So I'm pretty good at reading scripts. And I read Fargo. American masterpiece. Yes. I was doing back foot. No I was terrified that I wouldn't get it. It was perfect for me. I knew I knew how to do the thing when I turned the last page. I knew exactly how to do it. So they call me in to read for the detective role. And they said, "That's real good. You want to read Jerry Lundergarten?" I said, "Yeah." I went out in the hall and I read it. Came back in. They said, "That's real good. You want to work on it and come tomorrow?" And I said, "Absolutely." I was up all night. Everybody in New and LA was there. I probably memorized my entire part the whole morning. Yeah. And I auditioned again. They said, "That's real good." And then I found out they were auditioning in New York. So I got my Lutheran ass on an airplane and I crashed that audition and I said, "I really want this part. I'm scared you're going to screw up your movie by not casting me." That's mammoth. That's like don't be afraid of these poses. That's like that day. It seems like what he told you to do is act but also just like this is all bullshit. Just like if you want something go for it. Yes. It worked. What did you don't do that? What did you say? I said, "You're going to fuck up your movie if you don't cast me." I think I went farther in Toll Ethan who had a new puppy that I would kill the dog if he didn't cast me. Last Christmas I gave you my heart but this Christmas I'm redeeming myself with aura frames. Guys, our grandpares are getting up there in age. I'm sorry to break it to you but they're fucking old and what they want mostly is to remember anything in fact but more specifically to remember the good times. The times when they stormed the beaches in Normandy when they put the flower in the barrel of Hitler's gun and he shot himself. Of course your grandfather wants to remember the good times. The time when he was throwing flowers. 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It's about how bullshit being Jewish is. And my dad also went into a three-month depression. The two of us were-- I called him. I was like, I'm still fucking thinking about that movie. Eat, they, they're really good at getting under your skin. It's not about the emotions about what you do, right? You said that before. So it's not a matter of drilling into some past trauma. What it is is just approaching the work for what the assignment is, right? I-- that's a good way of putting it. That's our assignment. Yeah. So is that how you went into the underguard? Obviously, there was a dialect aspect of it, too. There's like a minute or so to the nice, which you were like fucking perfect at. Not very nice, but. I come from the school. I'm not saying you don't have to do some research. If you're going to play a doctor, you've got to learn how to do that, all that stuff. If it's an accent, you have to study. If it's-- if there's some physicalization, you've got to memorize that. But that's-- those are externals. They're not acting. The acting is looking at each other and deciding what I'm going to do about what you just said and making that decision. It's improvisatory. Yeah, beautiful. It's got to be improvisatory. Same words, I also believe-- I don't believe in ad-libbing. I say, learn the script. Of course, when Dave Mammott writes the script, nobody has to be told to learn it exactly. Actors love his script so much. They hold themselves to a higher standard than Dave does. I've never heard him bark at someone about paraphrasing it. Loving a lot. As a matter of fact, I've heard him saying, well, he keeps saying that well, I must have wrote it wrong. Really? So he's not precious at all, not at all. It's very interesting, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. So going for a part, you have that Oscar. What does it feel like sitting there at the Academy Awards? Did you want to win? It seems like they're a god you want to win. You want a fucking win. Do you have to go to a party afterwards? No, we have to. But did you? No. You drove home. You only go to the party when you win. You only go when you win. And then it's a great party. When you lose, the world is out of sync. And then you get home, and you take off your monkey suit, and there's your speech, which is so much better than any speech that was given there. This is a great speech. But it's also best supporting. So you've got to wrap it up fast, because it's beginning of the show. That's the one where they start playing the music. And in the speech, you have a guy that you deliberately don't think, right? No. Well, I would if I was mad at someone, I would just forget to say their name. And you know who you are. I have no idea what to say. I think-- and I hope you get to go to the Academy Ward sometime as a nominee. But I'll tell you, it's overwhelming. There's no time to think of clever stuff. Maybe. If you're one of those guys, if you're Meryl Streepen, this is your 40th trip. But I was a live wire. I was-- oh, my god. I was cavalier about it on the way in, too, because I was directing a play here. And it's that whole Chicago attitude. I thought, you know, I got a play to do. Fuck the Academy Ward, so I didn't do much of a campaign. Would you would never go, apparently? I know a lot of people who won't go. Especially people that have gone. It's kind of a smaller move. Yeah. I think you get old enough. And you think I've done it. I gave it the office. I don't need to do this anymore. The Oscars, I don't know. The Emmys, I don't know. But there's a bunch of awards out there. And sometimes you get exhausted. Yeah, I have to go to the SAG East. Yeah, it's in a tent. Yeah, the food is cold. On the other hand, if you can hold it lightly, that's where you get to meet all your pals. It's fabulous. It's a fun time. I've been to the Emmys a lot of times, and I got two. And there were all of us, for about three or four years. We'd see all of us. And modern family. Shameless and modern family was always there. You talk shit to them? No, quite the opposite. When we would lose, both tables would get up and we're all toasting each other. While somebody else is walking up there, we're going, yeah. When did you meet Paul Thomas Anderson? How did that come to pass? They sent me boogie nights, and the script they sent me was even more racy. I thought it was being punked. And I called my agent. I said, no, this is legit. It's got to have an R rating. That's in the contract. And then when I got back to town, I was working someplace. I went to see his film, Heart 8. And I thought, I'll read the newspaper for this guy. Was he 25? Yes. It's a fabulous film. Jesus Christ. And that and him doing boogie nights, son. And I've told the story a lot, and I think Paul's OK with it. But I went there ready to put the full court press on him. How I saw the through line, the way I was going to play it. What did I thought the film was in it? And I said, hey, nice to meet you. And Paul started talking. And he didn't stop for seven minutes. And he talked me all the way through the film, the way he was going to shoot it, what didn't. And at a point, I realized, oh my god, he's auditioning. He's also 28. He's 28, he's 28. I'm the guy who's going to make this, and I remember going, tell me more. You're an academy award-nominated actor. I know, but he's a 28-year-old. Fargo was out a year and a half before I started feeling the love. The love, yeah. Well, speaking of Float Blinds, I mean, the thing is, your character kind of sets the insanity of that movie, and like the end of your character's arc just sets the movie explodes. Yes, yes. And it's the centerpiece kind of of the rise in the fall. I like Barry Lyndon also. And they're both rise in fall movies. They're about a nimrod who nature pushes up words, and then begins to believe in their own genius. And then nature slaps all down. And but you famously, you steal the show a couple times. You have a couple of lines in that movie that are just-- I know what you're talking about. OK, the first is, we miss the cum shot. OK, so that scene is so intense, right? and there's no doubt log and everyone's gasping and you break the tension I mean you that is it's so funny for that reason what do you say we missed the cup shot like he came inside of her should we go to stock footage yeah and everyone stunned by this size of his member I think and played that that thing you know he was trying to pretend he was in charge but he was he had had a bomb go off in his face too you know when he said yeah that line and then of course the famous loved one so I it was a mistake yeah the wife is down in the driveway getting laid by all these guys and Ricky Jay did this speech with me legend and I said do you mind my wife is down there with an ass in her cock I can't concentrate right now and he says sorry sorry sorry and Paul came and said you said ass in her cock and I said I did sorry sorry and he said let's go again so we did the scene again and he said you said ass in her cock again I said no no I didn't were you fucking with it no I said no I didn't this is the brain worm yeah brain fart I didn't I said no I didn't he said I said check the tape and he said let's just go again turns out I did it the second time and the third time I did it correctly and Paul and this is why he's Paul Thomas Anderson he decided there was some wisdom there was some truth in the reason that I said said it wrong you were losing your mind yeah yeah I mean it's such a it's such an amazing story I mean how does a set work right like in a production that is so I mean does does you've been a character actor for a lot of your career right and in particular like PTA's movies are so unsombley they're like Robert Altman's kind of movies so there's so much chaos going on on on on camera like how a is the set chaos like how does one control that like how does a filmmaker control that and then you as an actor do you you're kind of like on a football team if I had to assume you're like the no tackle everyone has like a specialized kind of assignment like how do a group of you know eleven people become one thing that's what's glorious about this business it's everyone thinks Hollywood it's one thing there are a bunch of liberal blah blah blah blah blah and it's not as you well know it's eclectic it's it's a hatchpodge of people and when you get all those people of all different backgrounds and political events and race and creed and outlooks and ages and they're all pulling in one direction it's moving they're all pulling in one direction for art for a piece of art yeah it's really moving what happens if so just one guy's fucking sucks if you've got a good director and good producer they'll straighten him or her up if you don't you suffer through it it's got a fuck one person can really cause a lot of you you famously said that before I think you said you said something about I want to find the that it's a major block for you is that worrying about the potential for someone else I think you're pretty sure you're talking about trivolta and wildhogs now I'm joking I'm joking I'm joking he was fabulous I'm joking I'm joking okay okay no I think what you're referring to is when I did shameless that TV show it ran eleven seasons and I finally got my 10,000 hours if you know the phrase and Malcolm Gladwell yeah and one of the things that I learned which I wish to got a good a learned earlier was to do my job and let everybody do their job I I'm pretty sure I was a jerk at the beginning of my career I thought I knew more than everybody else and I took responsibility and worried about stuff that was not in my purview at all and it causes chaos when someone does that is there like a key grip or a best boy that you'd like to apologize to no probably more directors and actors and so would you say if john trivolta was here about your your behavior towards them on the set of wildhogs you're stirring up the pot aren't you I was just he's I will tell you this about john trivolta and this is unknown there is a hierarchy on the set and the number one in the call sheet has a responsibility I mean yeah we need no ghosts from the grave to tell us that shit flows downhill so if you've got a bad producer you know a mean disrespectful producer or a mean disrespectful director or a mean disrespectful number one in the call sheet everyone's gonna suffer and the converse is true if those guys are great or people men or women are respectful and kind and create a a set that is safe nobody will act up yeah it just they set the tone and john is great at that he's always number one in the call sheet yeah and he just sets the tone of kindness and respect on the set being on the set like a set like boogie nights it feels like it looks like when you're watching the movie like these guys are having a blast even when the cameras were rolling it had it was like summer camp or something like that there was a lot of joking and a lot of humor on that set because Paul is he loves making movies it shows yeah he's got a huge knowledge of every movie ever made and he loves actors so he was delighted every second of the day even when it we were chasing the sun or it was a tough scene like that first scene we rehearse that thing forever tracking shot yes and that makes producers very nervous because it's three o'clock in the afternoon and you have enrolled a piece of film yet uh-huh but then when you do the whole scene stunt Bert Reynolds was he was like a he was a cramudge and on set like uh notoriously I made a joke one time he said mentioned smoking in the band it and I'm I said something snarky what everyone thought he's going to deck you what you said I'm sorry he said we were trying to decide how to do something and he said well snow and smoking in the band it I did blah blah blah blah blah and I said something to the effect of well we know how that turned out and everyone goes I laughed yeah aren't I funny I was just making that was hyperbole but Paul said you came close to getting decked really Mark Walberg also says it's the one movie he regrets because he's very Catholic yeah a movie about your penis being enormous yeah what an idiot if I was a movie called the biggest penis of all time yeah yeah I'm like I really regret that no no it's it's like oh so embarrassing that movie about the biggest I watched Magnolia within the last year and I lost a parent I hadn't seen it since I lost a parent and my understanding is that Paul wrote it after his father passed away yeah but that movie that was devastating after losing a parent you played Donnie the quiz kid yes and that character is also just in the vein of you were kind of on a run of like just these tragic men character yeah but that performance of yours is just it's brutal thank you so it's a man reaching out for love and I have a lot of love I just don't know where the braces getting braces getting braces to impress a hunk that just doesn't even know you're alive oh my god I have to see that I haven't seen it a long time I want to see that again my daughter's just sought it devastates you yeah yeah I mean it's a phenomenal movie what was it like working with PCA the second time around a joy so many people from boogie nights had come on for the second one so we knew each other I mean making a movie it's like a pick up baseball team it's it's scary and you get there and it's your friend most people have this experience you know when you begin this if you got a big role when you begin the second or third day or the second week you go oh now I know how to do this I understand this yeah only we could go back and start again so when it's people you know there's an ease about it so it's a head start I'm I'm a big believe her in rehearsal. Was there someone in that crew that fell in love? like top of the class, was Phil Hoffman like working with him where you like this is-- I mean, this is the greatest actor in the world. I think we all knew he was the best of us. What was it like just in the flesh watching him work? Like, what did he do with the words on the page that were just like, how did he-- was it magic or like-- It was a bit magical. First of all, all I knew about him was Boogie Knights, eating the pencil and hugging himself. And so implosive. The boom pole where he's like basically ejaculating in his own pants is one of the parts. I miss that part. Well, that's right after we missed the cum shot. That's right before we missed the cum shot. Yeah, yeah. He makes it look so natural. You have to sort of remind yourself, this is Phil. This is the same guy that did that other thing. He was magnificent. I think I really fell in love with him after Magnolia when I saw him do these other roles. I mean, talk about being a chameleon. And he didn't change his appearance that much. He was just a different guy in the same skin. It was almost as if you had never seen him before. But he looked exactly the same. Yep, he had a complicated man. All those characters live within him. Obviously we found out. Do you get a better performance when you're like with someone like that? I think so. I think so. I mean, if you want longevity in this business, you can't count on that. But boy, it's a rising tide lifts all boats. And when the leads and the thing are just killing it and simple and honest and so in your face. So when they look at you, you're being looked at. It's powerful. It's powerful medicine. You're just seeing him go 99 yards with the ball. Yeah, every time. Yeah. And you're like, I better block for this guy. Today's episode is sponsored by Incogni. Incogni helps to wipe your personal data from the internet and protect your privacy. 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And Felicity, my wife, said, "What are you going to do next season? What are you going to work on next season?" I said, "What do you mean?" She said, "Well, you've got this lab. You're get to act every day. You get to act all this stuff. You're going to have a goal, something you want to work on?" I married very well. And I said, "Good God, you're right. I hadn't thought about it." And it sounds trite, and it sounds mundane. But one of the foundations of acting is to really look and really listen. Yeah. And to a certain extent, really talk. Really talk to someone. And to react to what someone else is. No. You can let that go. You can let that go. Okay. Write that down. But to really look and really listen. So I decided in that next season, I would really look and really listen. And it turns out that's not something you can make a decision. And then for the next 10 episodes or 12 episodes, you'll do it. You have to remind yourself before every single, not only seen, every take. You've got to remind yourself because everything is trying to push your attention back on yourself. Everything. Right. And this is what happened. I would do a take and I would go, "God, Bill, really look and really listen." So we do the second take and I would really look at my fellow actor. And nine times out of ten, they would go, "I'm sorry, you've got to cut. I have no idea what my line is. Sorry, I just went up on my lines." You're getting in their heads. They saw me really looking at them and they went, "What's going on?" Really? Yeah. So do they have to account for that or do they? I don't think they ever knew. It's because I was really looking at them rather than actor looking at them. Right. As a guy. As the guy. As the guy, yeah. As the guy. No, as me. As you. Yeah. That's the difference. There is no character. This is another tenant of this thing. This makes it a whole lot more sense than this, like, yeah, when you're three, you pissed yourself and that you have to bring this into your scene where you're playing some sort of Marvel superhero. It doesn't make any sense. It's like. I don't think it's possible either. It's so cultish. I know, for me, when everybody gets quiet and the camera starts rolling, I've got all I can do to get the lines out properly and to really look at someone. And improvise with them, throw them a curve ball, see what they do, figure out what I'm going to do based on that. I can't think of another thing to do. So the idea of bringing forth the time Sparky got run over, I can't do that. Or even if you do it before the scene, it's gone. You're like a guy going to the office and you're doing your job and you're focusing on your fucking job. Yeah. It's a craft. Yeah. It's really a craft. If you do it well enough, it's an art, but ain't everything. Yeah. The idea of character is a trick we play on the audience as a magician would. And the audience says, yes, trick me again. Yeah. I think that that is like an articulation of acting that is like the most down to earth articulation of the craft that I think I've ever heard a performer get. That's why Atlantic Theatre Company, which has a school, they call it. it practical aesthetics with the emphasis being on practical. Is it annoying to work with a guy that's just like fully method, and he's like, and you're like eating lunch with him and you're like, "Come on, dude." I just wanted the things I learned and we're not actually ninjas, okay? Yeah, right. We're playing ninjas that we're, we're adults wearing costumes. President Lincoln, it's for you. Who was like that, like, is there, is there anyone in particular that was like that? Oh sure, it's, it's, it's a, it's a common story that they want to be the character. Brando was like that, right? Nah, I don't know off stage, I'm not sure I've never heard that. He's the best. He's the best. Who's been your hero throughout your career? In theory, Meryl Streep could be bad, but she's never been bad yet. Nah. She can do anything, I'd love to work with her if she's listening. The aforementioned Jane Hackman, a genius actor, never selling the bed. There's a whole bunch of men. You guys are good. So acting's gotten better. I mean, it was just 75 years ago when, to show that you were upset, you went like this. That's not that long ago that that was acting and look where we are now. This movie I really like with you, that like I don't know if anyone remembers, especially about these boys, they were born after 9/11. You were? That's crazy. Anyway. My hemorrhoid just acted up when he said- You gave him a hemorrhoid. No, he's had it, but it just hurt when he said- Why'd you hurt his, his hemorrhoid? The cooler. Fabulous. What a good movie. Fabulous. You kind of returned kind of to your broken man. And I'll tell you, they sent me the cooler and I thought, nope, if I do this, I'm just going to be Jerry Lindergarde for the rest of my life, the hapless loser, I don't want to play that role. Because in real life you're one of the coolest guys I've ever met. I think so too. Maybe they named it that, to trick you into thinking as a cool guy. Yeah. Yeah, that's a really cool guy. God bless Ed Pressman, who I'm pretty sure I had that right, was the producer, he wouldn't take no for an answer. And the director, they just sounded me and I'm going to go out, I did it, and you guys should see it. It's a movie about- It's a movie about- It's a movie about- It's a movie about- It's a movie about a casino who hires a guy who's such a loser, that his loser dem actually like kind of radiates towards the guy at the table, and the casino has hires me. If someone's a blackjack, and winning all the time, all I got to do was sit down, have a drink, and then the guy starts losing. There's a scene of a guy throwing craps and he's winning every time, and I just walked by in my ill-fitting suit, slumped by, and I just put my hand on the table. And I walk away, and as soon as I walk away, you hear, "Awww." "Well, you're 75 now?" "I'm 75." "You look fucking great." "Oh, thanks." "How'd you do it?" "No drinking?" "No smoking?" "I own a distillery." I don't own the whole thing, I woody creek distillers, "Nope, I love to drink." "You love to drink?" "Why do you look so good?" "Beach me, I think I can thank mom and dad." And every woman I've ever gone out with exercised like crazy, so I did it too. And Felicity is no exception, and then about 22 years ago, 24 years ago, 22 years ago, we hired a trainer in LA, and we've had the same trainer for 22 years, and I'm still working with her. "You work out, I work out, and I gave up meat, maybe 10 years ago, and I'm cutting back on the drinking because it's hard on you." "Oh, I was going to say after this, I know it's, oh, okay." "It's like a, what time is it, it's 12 o'clock somewhere, dude." "It's 12 o'clock, it is, literally 12 o'clock right now." "Personally, once you're engaged with your work, I feel this way right now, like I don't really ever want to stop doing, like, work here, you know?" And like, so what motivates you, like, looking ahead, like, future challenges, like, you know, you've directed, of course, you've written, but like, what's like, what is, you know, what are you searching for, like, what are, or are you content, like, just drink it in Colorado? When I took off some time, it turns out, I'm not good at that. I need some sort of creative challenge. It's the way I've always challenged myself in my life, and I think I need that. It turns out I'm not as rich as I thought it was, too. "What does she do, who, your wife, would she bought a boat?" "No, no, no, she makes money, I do that." "No, I just, I like, I like to live large." "You do?" "I do, I do." "Well, like, what, what, you're ostentatious, gentlemen?" "No, but we have, we still have a house in LA and one in, in Woody Creek, and that's expensive, and I like not looking at the check, just feeling it out." "I don't know how much money I have." "Yeah, yeah." "It's a great feeling." "They'll call me when I'm out." "Oh, so I've got two daughters, and you know, I'd love to make sure that they can do anything in their lives that they want to. I agree with Warren Buffett, I want to give him enough money, they can do anything they want to, but not enough to do nothing." "Right. I have a friend who's a billionaire son who just reads that Carl Oven now's scarred book and smokes cigarettes, he just has nothing to do." "He just smokes cigarettes and reads my struggle by Carl Oven now's scarred." "He's really, like, he's got great nicks tickets." "To answer your question, though, I do want to, I still like acting, and I feel like I recently got pretty good at it, you know, I put down a lot of baggage that I carry around. Yeah, I think I can do it, and there's always an alter-cocker in any, in any film. So I think there's work for me. Do I want to carry a film?" "Do you want to Paris, Texas?" "Yeah, yeah, I did a one called Happy Texas, if you've ever seen it." "Great movie." "The gay, the gay, the guys on the lamb, and they have to act like gay guys, and then you're the sheriff." "You're the sheriff." "And I'm the sheriff." "Right, and you're gay." "Yeah, and I fall in love with Warren." "What do you make of, like, the shift in the industry?" "Obviously, you're on a television series for 11 years, right? It seems like there's been a shift towards that medium." "Yeah, TVs were, do you, do you, do you, do you miss the movies?" "Yeah." "I miss them." "Me too." "Remember that when they were about people, they're still about people, sometimes they're just trying to engage with some of the movies." "Oh, the movies." "The movies." "It seems that the comic books are the only thing that they can guarantee, but there's a shift. It's recent, last couple of years, I've done a lot of indies, and they're, sometimes they just four-wall them and put them in theaters, but they're a bunch of them I've been involved with where they're going into theaters, and I think they might succeed. I've got this one that's coming out any minute, and it's Green? "It's Green?" "No, so long fire." "Okay." "I think they're going to put it in a thousand theaters." "Who?" "Who made it?" "It was in Indy." "It was in Indy." "It was in Indy." "I'm behind the, I think they might have sold it, but I don't know who they sold it to." "Mmm." "Saudi Arabia." "Yeah." "I'm off to St. Louis next week for the opening, and I'll find out a lot more. Lovely film." "What is it about?" It's a true story about this guy who as a child was burned over 90% of his body, 92% he should have died, but he didn't. I played Jack Buck, the Cardinals announcer, and Joe Buck's dad. "Yep. I met Joe, and I did a look-alike with Jack, you know, that right here I did that, and it was really weird when I met the family. I was on set the first time they saw me, and here I am dressed and looking like their father. But they were very cool about it." "That's your second announcer role, right? See Biscuit. You're the. "Tick-tock." "Yeah. You're the guy with the sound effects." "I know. That's a great role. Very right." "You were talking a mile a minute in that movie." "Yes. I practiced it so I could do it really fast, and I did about three takes, and Gary said, "Great. It's great. It's great." "What if you're doing really fast?" "And that was the fastest you go?" "What are you talking about? That's just fastest. My tongue can work." "So you got hooked on methamphetamine on that set." No, before that, I should have started my meth habit earlier. You directed a sex road trip comedy with Alexandra D'Dario and Kate Upton. All right. Enough said. No. It was, you know, it's about two women in their early to mid-20s who are having a crisis. So who better to direct it than a 70-year-old man? Yeah, I bet it was. Were you in pajamas the entire time? I should have been. Were you in a bathroom? They did great, and it's got moments in it, but I did not do that script justice as a director. I've done three of them. You may be. And I put eyes up here, maybe, you know? I threw my hat in the ring, by the way, you'd write. I threw my hat in the ring to direct another one, so I haven't learned my lesson. Or the boobs gonna be even bigger. Were there boobs in that? Oh, he'd-- What a professional, ladies and gentlemen, what a professional. They were stunning women, boy. Everywhere we went, it was like Moses' parting. See, crickets would stop chirping when they came on set. Birds were so fine looking and really delightful, both women. We had a good amount of fun on that thing. What happened? I wanna talk about your two projects that are coming up. You're in Edgar Wright's new picture. The Running Man, which I understand is the Stephen King adaptation. He wrote the book, and there was the Schwarzenegger version of it, and for this one, they went back to the book, and it's big. We shot it in London. I've got two scenes. It's like a most dangerous game kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's a dystopian future. The government, which looks like a studio, it's more television and government, runs everything, and there's this game. They choose a guy as the Running Man. He starts going, if he can stay alive for a certain amount of time, they give him a million dollars. But anyone can kill him. Oh, anyone? Anyone. Oh, wow. It became Mafia. Yeah. Yeah. And you happen to be best friends with Arnold Schwarzenegger? No. I got that one wrong. So now that you're working out, do you think you could go toe-to-toe? With Arnold? Yeah. Maybe it enters a couple of competitions, maybe? I would do it if it was he and I, and that's it. Just the two of you? Yeah. He's amazing. I love him so much. I can't. My father and I, one of the biggest categories of pictures that I brought up watching were just the next snap, genre. The genre where the guy just kills someone by snapping them their next. So I've seen pretty much every, it's a call, John Klavan, damn, you know. They make it look so easy. They just walk up and go, and that's it. That could be a good goal for you moving forward. You know, at 75, you haven't done one next snap. No. Yeah, yeah. Or have you ever said, secure the perimeter? No. Never said that. Fuck it down. No. What's your favorite line you've ever delivered in any movie? It's, it's not mine. It's, it's mammoth who went insane. I did Air Force One and I say, let me save him. He's the president for God's sake. Dave still courts that to me. Though he's just even here to live, he makes it funny. That movie is awesome. This is, get off my, while Harrison's on the back of the plane, going like this. You know, all the president is hanging off my back. He saved them. It's the president. Well, we should talk about train dreams. Yes. Yeah. I love Westerns. I'd love to do a Western. But they're all just, to coin a phrase, horseshit because all the Westerns that come out now are based on Western movies, John Ford movies. And the real West is best, it's, it's, it's fascinating. The shootout at the OK Corral, you ready for this? Two guys got shot. Got killed. Yeah. Four guys, five guys got shot. And that lives in lore. They've written poems and songs, written movies about them. That's the biggest shootout in the West. I've read a, a Western script the other day. There's 14 bodies on page three. Just blamming away. It's like Hong Kong action. And I've shot off my mouth a lot about it. But I think all this bullshit, untruthful gunplay and violence in movies is hurting us as a culture. This kid see it and, you know, this whole thing we used to say, hey, don't blam, I'm, I'm just the messenger. This is what America is like. That's not what America is like. It's horseshit. And it really offends me. I just think, tell the truth about it. Just tell the truth. And that's kind of what the, what the, you know, the new picture that you're in with Joel Edger tonight. Yes. Yeah, it's about, it's about, it's couldn't be quieter and simpler. What I understand is your character is kind of like like a, like a poet and philosopher. Yeah. Kind of like. It's based on a novella. It's very quiet. I read the book. The Dennis Johnson book. Yeah. I read it because it was short. This is pretty close. I read it on vacation. He's an amazing writer. And they got his voice in this thing. And is he, you know, Joel is great in it. And everybody, it's quiet. It's so moving. We were in Toronto. Are you in Toronto or you just saw that thing? I, I heard you, I heard something where you spoke about it. We watched the thing. They won't let me go. Completed. I had seen a cut. And I'm watching it in the big theater with a lot of people. And I was a mess. I was weeping like a baby and then they go, okay, time to get up on stage now. Yeah. And I was still really excited. Was that the first time you'd seen it? Finished. Yeah, finished it. And it's different when you see it with a bunch of people as we, in a theater. Yeah, theaters. Yeah. Especially with comedy, like seeing an audience laugh at a joke, especially if you made something and you've, like, deliberately done a cut, like an edit, like, it just, it feels so satisfying. It feels more satisfying than doing stand-up for me. It's like seeing an audience smile and something totally different. So you're watching from the side, you're not watching from, from the stage. You can't really, with the lights, you can't really see. I mean, you know that from the theater. Well, the way I put it is, I've written a bunch of stuff and a lot, almost all of it has humor in it. And when you sit at your typewriter, that's how far back I go. And you write a joke and it goes from there to a producer who steps on it. And then it goes to a director. And then it goes to production designer. Then it goes to the actors. And if that joke is still funny after all those people who have handled it, that's a good joke. That's the highest I have ever had in this business. Getting a pop feels good. Oh, getting a pop feels good. We missed the cum shot. Yes. We did. Guys, thank you for your time. Thanks for coming. Really much, Macy. I'd love this. You've loved it? Yeah, you could do this professionally. This was a great fun. I do actually. Oh, you do? Yeah, I do. Oh, no idea. I do. [MUSIC PLAYING]