Will Apple Own the Emmys This Year? Plus, ‘House of the Dragon’ S3E4 With Joanna Robinson.

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And obviously Tim Cook's about to not be the chief over there, but Tim Cook wanting to be part of that Hollywood conversation means that Apple is chasing a certain kind of show, which means that the Apple lineup to me right now looks a bit like what HBO did a while ago. Yeah. Or it took the lessons that HBO taught and said, okay, like what's the more, I don't want to say vanilla, but what's the safer version of this? Absolutely. I mean, safer, I would agree with. I wouldn't even agree with vanilla, honestly. But like, and there are Apple shows that both of us really love. Of course. But like, and that star model that they have, but as HBO is doing this interesting, like pivot and obviously HBO got the highest number of Emmy nominations. So it's not like it's slouching around, but like they're doing this IP pivot, you know, that's part of their new model and stuff like that. Yeah. So Apple has an opportunity. And I feel like in the conversations that I've had with people inside of the industry, Apple is chewing up a lot of space in the conversation. Yeah. I would also say for as much as that they're taking a little bit of the space from HBO, they're filling the vacuum that Netflix seems to have left. By more or less pivoting away from prestige awards driven TV fare. I think every year they still have a couple of movies that they splash around for. Do you think it was Apple winning the Oscar for Coda and Netflix is just like, fuck it. We've been trying for years. I don't know. I will be very interested to see where this conversation is this time next year and where especially the movies on Netflix conversation is for this time next year. But I do feel like Netflix, while still having two or three like very notable releases a year for our purposes, it's fewer and farther in between where I'm like, there's a Netflix show that we need to talk about. What is the latest you've heard about this idea that there might be an adolescence season two? I have not heard that. Yeah. That's in the conversation. And I'm just like. With the same characters or just like riffing on like similar themes? I think it might be anthology. Okay. But that sort of shocked me a bit. You know, it's like one of the biggest hits they've ever had. Yeah. I mean, on one hand, I can kind of see why. I mean, they basically because of when they released went on an 18-month award jag for it. So it's like clearly something that has just been anointed. You know, Jack Thorne, I can't believe he has the time. But Stephen Graham, if he can squeeze that in after Heat 2, all power to him. I wanted to ask you about the Outstanding Drama nominations because that was, let me just call the noms up here really quickly because that was one. Where you threw your computer across the room. I didn't throw anything. I was like, this is sort of what I imagined was going to happen. You know, there are shows here that I have not gotten a chance to watch or have fallen behind on. So like Diplomat, Phoebe, my wife, loves that show. I have not gotten to see beyond season one, I think. I was a little surprised that the Diplomat was here. I know that it's, as it's become increasingly like West Wing methadone, you know, as they just like bring more and more cast members from the West Wing on, like I understand that it's maybe feeling a bit, but it's so soapy to me in a way that I was surprised that it's here. Yeah. And then Gilded Age, I think I have, I've loved at various points. I find it eminently watchable and entertaining, but those two are at the top. And then you've got Night of the Seven Kingdoms, Paradise, season two, Andy and I talked about with amusement, but I don't think it was as good as the first season. The Pit, Pluribus, Slow Horses, Your Friends and Neighbors. And I wanted to say, Yeah. I was going to ask you, like, you know, is there any, like, I'd trade this for that in the outstanding drama that you can think of? Easy. Your Friends and Neighbors, it's preposterous that this is here, despite what I just said about Apple. Yeah. Like, I think that show is terrible and I'm confused why it's here. So like, industry is the biggest snub, obviously. I'll come correct on the watch and honor your God, which is industry, but also like, you know, this season of industry was incredible. Yeah. And it's, I know, I know that Andy, I'm not sure if Andy hit this when he did his pod, but Andy illuminated to me over the weekend when I saw him, he was just kind of like, that's just not something, like the voting block is conservative in so much as, like, they're not going to go for an overly bleak, nihilistic, fast talking British, like, maybe, coke drama. I, you know, but I would definitely, I would go as far as to trade off Slow Horses for industry. Like, I would get rid of Slow Horses or I would get rid of one of my darlings. Sure. Yeah. And then the lowdown I would put in here before I would put The Diplomat or Paradise with love and respect. Like, or I'm not really into The Gilded Age personally, but like, The Pit being here, Pluribus being here, those two feel incredibly important. And I'm happy for Night of the Seven Kingdoms. And I'm, like, thrilled for Night of the Seven Kingdoms. I was a little surprised that it didn't get, like, a single acting nom. If they were, like, considering it in this category, that it didn't get a single acting nom, but maybe that's, like, a season two choice. I guess my other question, and, you know, you and I are not Emmy scholars, but, like, is something with industry a bit more like if they weren't on board from the very beginning with a show, they don't love to get in on it in the later season? I would have to go back and look at how Breaking Bad developed into the Emmy juggernaut that it became. And a lot of that, I think, was driven by Cranston and his performance. And the Netflix bomb. But was Breaking Bad a first season Emmys thing? I don't think so. And I think, I mean, that just became undeniable in a way that industry unfortunately isn't. Industry is, like, a smaller, like, in terms of numbers. Yeah, I was trying to think of something that would be, like, aspirational for industry now going into its final season, so it's a little bit beyond the point. But maybe a better comp would be Saul, where I don't think that that had a lot of recognition early on, but then started to towards the end. And there is, there was a bit for a time of sort of, like, it's time for Jon Hamm. You know, it's time for Kyle Chandler or something, you know what I mean? Like, it's time for Matthew Rhys with the Americans. You know, so, but I think that has more to do with performance than, like, they like, what the Emmys like to do, the TV Academy like to do, is rubber stamp a show from the beginning and then just sort of stick with it. Give it an award for five years. Yeah. Yeah. So we saw that with, obviously, West Wing. We saw that with Modern Family. you know, there are historic runs that shows go on. I was actually, that sort of dovetails nicely into the next thing I wanted to ask you about, which was a show that we obviously both adored and covered extensively was Widow's Bay. Kind of a late-breaking show in so much as I think it was still running when voting, when the window closed, at least, or, you know, so, like, a couple of those episodes technically wouldn't be. I think they could only deliver the first episode I wanted. It's, like, something, like, really, um. Narrow, I think. Like, highly technical about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think, then, that a. Is it, like, a. Is it a runaway train or is it, like, a nice, pleasantly surprise? Like, is. Because Widow's Bay, by far, among people I talk to, is the most beloved new show of the year. Yes. And so I didn't know whether that would necessarily translate to voting. Um, I wasn't surprised that it got nominated. I was not surprised that Matthew. Matthew Rhys getting nominated felt like a lock to me. Him getting double-nominated is fascinating. Kato Flynn, I was, like, pretty sure. But, like, Dale Dickey getting nominated, I think is. That's when you. You get really excited for a show. Yeah, Linklater and Gilpin do guest nods, yeah. Like, when they start to dominate in the guest category, you know, the White Lotus phenomenon or the Pitt phenomenon where it's just sort of, like, how many actors from this show can we sort of. Are there three or four supporting actress in the Pitt? I think it's four, but Nani Cipriani is for some reason. Yeah. And so it's just sort of, like, that. When you start to nominate sort of down the cast list, that's why. That's when it's not just sort of, like, oh, a shiny new thing fluke. It's. Let's take this seriously. And if I were HBO so certain that Hacks, the final season of Hacks, which also got heavily, heavily nominated, hugely nominated, but if I were so certain that, like, you know, Jean Smart was again going to win and et cetera, et cetera, I would put a little bit more oomph behind my campaign. Yeah, I. You know, so the other comedy, Outstanding Comedy's nominator, Nobody Wants This, the bear, Abbott shrinking, only murders and the aforementioned Hacks and. Only Murders is one of those where, like, they decided early on, only murders. And they've just. They really want Steve Martin and Martin Short to come to the ceremony. So they're like, here it is. But if you'd asked me three months ago or two months ago, I would have just been like, yeah, this is Hacks' victory lap and, like, the sort of great bear war is over and, you know, that Hacks won and can write. They won that whisper campaign of, is this really a comedy? Yeah, it wasn't that much of a whisper. It was shouting. The shout campaign, yeah. But I do wonder whether or not the sheer excitement around Widow's Bay or on something new or on something tonally a little bit different from stuff that's come out maybe over the last couple of years is, like, significant enough to push it. I think that there will be. It's not going to be, like, a clean sweep for Hacks, I don't think. I would love to see that. I would love to see more division. Like, it really gets so boring at the Emmys when it's just sort of like the pit wins everything and Hacks wins everything and you just sort of. zone out in the beginning of the ceremony and don't tune back in, basically. But, like, if it's. if it's parceled out a bit more. Like, Jean Smart should get her umpteenth Emmy. Sure. She should get it. So should Hannah Einbinder, but I would not be upset if, like, a Kate O'Flynn who just, like, came out of nowhere, absolutely crushed it, everyone is obsessed with her. Like, that would just be really fun. Yeah. And, like, sort of like a handing off of the baton of just sort of, like, Hacks is bowing out, Widow's Bay is fresh and brand new. I also kind of want this to happen for Widow's Bay because it doesn't feel like it's going to be ready until, I mean, at the very least, late next year, I would imagine. Wouldn't it be fun if it was a Halloween show? It would be, but she's just starting to write it, I think. Kate. Yes. Yeah. I think that's true, but also isn't it true that she's, like, at least had, like, ideas in the tank for a long time? I think you're probably right, but I am trying to be optimistic about showing up about shows coming back and this idea of, like, the pitification, I guess is what we're calling it. Yes. But, like, how excited are we to people who talk a lot about television that next January, if all goes according to plan, we get another season of Night of the Seven Kingdoms and we get The Pit starting its several-month run? Yes. And it's just sort of like, those are two great shows at the top of the year that we can feel confident. And we could get Task relatively soon after that. That would be thrilling. I guess. No, probably not until, like, summer, I would imagine. It would be a great summer show. Yeah. All that quarry. We gotta get back to the. We gotta get back to rock diving. This episode is brought to you by NOS Energy. Introducing new NOS Energy Grand Prix Guava for those that want to be fueled up and fired up with 100-mile-an-hour tropical tasting power. 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I would say, uh, this, there's no white Lotus this year to dominate it, I suppose, but Shogun moving out of limited, didn't it move out of limited anthology into outstanding drama that year at one and it's return is, I suppose, still imminent, but like, I don't know when. Yeah. They're still filming. I believe so next year and then task announcing that it was going to be a continuing series rather than a limited series tweaks, this limited series category. And I do wonder if task would have walked this, if it had just been like a one-off like mayor style, although, you know, with Julian Nicholson coming now, everything is now, everything is an ongoing series. I'm very excited. Is love story just going to walk this category because of its popularity, what do you think is going to happen here? I would have said possibly yes, except he didn't get nominated. Oh yeah. And that's, I mean, I think sort of deservedly so, but I would, I would have loved for like Constance Zimmer to win for that show. I did not love that show at all. Um, but I thought there were a couple of great performances. Um, I liked beef season two a lot more than a lot of people did. So, you know, and it got, it got pretty well nominated as well. Um, but yeah, it's a very funky year for that category. Yeah. I can't tell, I can't get a feel for the DTF, uh, fandom or the feeling of DTF among the awards block. Yeah. But Bateman is always like a real power player in the awards. And he's running for black rabbit, I think in some, one of those categories. But I, I was, I was struck by, you know, when we were talking about it and Andy and I were a little bit dismissive, I admit, but it was just like the passion with which people responded to us being like, no, you've got to keep giving it a chance. You've got to keep giving it. Yeah. DTF. We got so many emails. Why aren't you covering DTF? What's wrong with you? And I think Steve Conrad has like a really dedicated fan base, but this went beyond that. I think this, this really caught on with some people. You mentioned beef beast in me, I think could also be a surprise here. Um, yeah, I thought it was entertaining. Like with a lot of limited series, especially a Netflix limited series. I'm like, there are episodes I really liked, you know, like if you put Claire Danes and Matthew Reese in a room and let them cook for an episode, that's great. And then elsewise you're like, I mean, I'm going through this with Cape Fear right now, but like why you're like, why isn't this happening to me? Why isn't this a movie? Um, Riz Ahmed getting nominated for bait. I was really happy to see that because I really liked that show. And that was just like a huge passion project for a performer that I really like. Yeah. I was very happy to see him in the, the digger trailer. Um, seemingly really understanding the assignment, maybe even more than some of the other people in that movie. Uh, I was curious where your head was. I was curious where your head was. Yeah, I was curious where your head was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious where your head was. Like, this is our brand now. All I hear is people humping. Not me involved, but like coming out of the television. Young people humping. But yeah, it's. She's a hockey player and she's this. And yeah, I'm just like, okay, like, let's give it a shot. I suppose. Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. Like, it's fascinating. But what I will say to all the people who run streamers who are listening to this podcast, what an opportunity you have next summer to absolutely own the space if you want to. Yeah, I mean. It'll be. I can't tell the way Sean kind of has a feel for production cycles, release schedule cycles on the big picture and like what's happening in Hollywood and why people are clearing out this weekend but coming hard for this weekend and whether or not something that is August, the new dumpuary kind of thing. I don't really have a feel for that. I would imagine these companies are pretty sophisticated at this point. They must have data that suggests like, well, let's steer clear of late July. Everybody's gone. But I don't know. Possibly. But also, I think it goes back to that whole like, you know, and this is what Sean is talking about a lot recently on The Big Pick where it's just like audiences will no longer just eat crap, right? They have had a decade plus of crap of like, we made whatever and we're going to throw it at the wall and see what sticks. And they're getting tired of it and they want things that are actually good. And that is slowing down. That is slowing down the entire. I mean, we're. We're. We're in post-Peak TV now, right? We're in a contraction era. I feel like we're in something of a swoon. Yeah. I think. I think between. I think between like the feeling that something is going to change with the merger. Yes. I think getting out from under like the extraordinary spending, but also like the weird like arms race that happened between all these upstart streamers. I think everybody is kind of like. There's a kind of show. There's a kind of show that people are happy to have on, but don't really feel the need to talk about, or at least they don't talk about it to me. Like, people don't come up to me to talk about all her fault. People don't. You know what I mean? But like, does that mean the battle is won, but we have to win the war differently? Do you know? Well, I guess it depends on what's your goal. Like, is the goal to have something like Widow's Bay that feels like actual, the closest thing we have to a water cooler show in the last couple of months? Is the goal just for everybody? Or is it just for me to like make money and keep people blithely entertained, a la it's 1986 and my stories are on? Right. You know, if that's the case, like, that's why Chloe Sevigny's in Five Star Weekend, you know? Because she's like, it's a good paycheck. My mom gets to watch it. Like, people enjoy this stuff. Like. Netflix, most of all, is confusing to me. Because like, once again, we don't have Nielsen ratings really in these places to track things. We have to take their word for it in certain things. And every time I open up the Netflix homepage and look at. The top 10 of what everyone's watching. And I'm like, but people aren't talking about this. You know? Well, because they're also watching it completely on their own schedule and their own. On their own schedule, but like, but also second screening, barely watching. It's just noise that's on, you know? And so it's not permeating in any kind of way. And so that doesn't lend itself to the longevity or the loyalty that something like The Pit will or otherwise. Yeah. I mean, even with The Pit, I, you know, anecdotally knew people who would wait till there was five or six episodes stored up. To start watching The Pit so that they could binge. Like, I think that people's television viewing habits have changed so profoundly and they've gotten so wise. Like, you know, fantasy avoiding Andor spoilers for like a year and a half is stunning to me that he was able to be like, man, season two of Andor was incredible. And I'm like, you didn't know what happened. You didn't hear about like that big part. And that's a guy who's really online. So I think people have gotten pretty good at. Being like, I'll bookmark this and get to it when I want to get to it. Yeah. And then what you have to create. I mean, whatever. I'm just telling them to make old fashioned television as I always do. But like, you have to create an urgent, a sense of urgency. If I don't watch The Pit, then I don't get to talk to everyone about The Pit and have an opinion on The Pit. And like, what I hear so often from our listeners is, and this is very, as much true for House of R as anything else, is like, I want to wait until the season's over and hear what everyone thinks and whether or not they thought it was good. Before I even start it. Because is this going to fall off a cliff? Am I going to start something and it's going to fall off a cliff? And I feel like I invested all this time and I wasted my time. So I'll just wait until everyone watches all of Lanterns, for example, or Spider Noir or whatever it is, and start it. And then they either don't get to it or everyone's watching on their own speed. But like, once you're three seasons into The Pit, is that still how you approach The Pit? That would be really fascinating. Because like, also, like, will people be. Like, okay, I've seen all The Pit's tricks. Sure. Possibly. But like, if you make it through the potential sophomore slump, which The Pit did not experience, then it just becomes a show everyone, increasingly everyone watches. Right. I mean, like, that's why we. Remember television? Yeah. I mean, I think that, like, that's why a show like Succession is, like, more of a miracle than it is commonplace. Right. That the show builds and builds and builds. Right. Is able to consistently surprise people with things that happen on screen that still feel very much part of the fabric of the story it's telling. Narratively, yeah, yeah, yeah. But feel like, I gotta go home and watch Succession tonight because I don't want people to be making boar-on-the-floor jokes at the office and I don't know what they're talking about. Bleak summer, but we still have House of the Dragon for a couple more weeks. Hot D, baby. I did not share my feelings with you on Talk of the Thrones. I thought this was, like, a really good episode. I think not quite as. I didn't have the same feeling for it. Has three. That I did about three. This was a real, like, damn ravens really be flying everywhere because there was a lot of, like, a raven has told me that this is happening. And I'm like, these ravens, like, kind of almost like emails, you know? Remember last week you were like, why are people flying their dragons everywhere? And this week you were like, ravens. Yeah. They should fly everywhere. You know, this was, I guess, in some ways, like a James Norton showcase episode. That's 100% what it was. And we also really, we got to see Darren. I liked. Up until, like, even the frame before he was like, Darren, come here. You're like, that's Darren. I know that's Darren. You can't trick me twice. When your guy Brasso from Andor, John Roxton, walks in, he's like, my prince. Yes, that was cool. We wound up talking largely about James Norton's character, Orman Hightower, and Darren Targaryen in there. And they're. I just think it's really exciting in the third season of a show that I've always quite liked to get characters that feel. That feel so urgent and exciting and new. Yes. I am deeply emotionally invested in Darren Targaryen for some reason. Like, I just think. Did you watch Bly Manor at all on Netflix? Okay. Is Darren on Bly Manor? That kid was on Bly Manor and he played like a little. Wait, the Flanagan thing? Yeah. I must have. I mean, I've seen. I think I've seen all the Flanagan shows. It was the second one after. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw that. Yeah. So there's two kids in that show, and he was one of them, and they get, like, possessed by ghosts at a certain point, and they're so scary. Yeah. Yeah, the, like, turn of the screw Henry James sort of thing. And so he's so. He was so creepy and so good in that. And he's going to be Link in the Zelda movie, which I have some questions about as well. But, like, this kid is someone to watch, and I just find him really. He's fantastic. And that character is a character we don't really have. Haven't had on House of the Dragon. It feels much more like a Thrones character than House of the Dragon. I was going to ask about that because the Ormond-Darren stuff felt. It felt very well-written, but in a way that didn't feel entirely tethered to, like, text. You know what's interesting is that episode was written by David Hancock, who you called out last season, who was on The Crown. Oh, yeah. And you called out last season as, like, an elevation in the language and stuff like that. And so I do think it's interesting that they brought him on for this, and he'll be on another episode this season, but brought him back to really, really introduce us to this kind of Crown-esque storyline. Storyline over here in Templeton. Yeah. I thought, you know, for as repulsive as Ormond is, articulating, like, some anti-Targaryen sentiment in a way that sort of would fit with high-born Westerosi people, where they're just like, I can't believe we're all dying because these incestuous maniacs are burning everybody. Although he also has some other hotter takes about. Yeah, he does. No, I mean, I think it's interesting because. I don't know what this is about. This is about me. Something that the House of the Dragon has always offered up to us is a complicated conflict where there are good points made on both sides, and there isn't, you know, you've always been Team Green, but there isn't supposed to be, like, a dyed-in-the-wool villain and a clear hero. Yeah. It's trying to give you something emotionally complex, and then all of a sudden, like, Ormond Hightower shows up like a villain, a real villain shows up, and I'm really, and maybe I'm just, like, I'm just really excited. Yes. And I'm like, oh, no, do I need basic, like, good versus evil in order to feel a certain way about Westeros? I don't know. Yeah, they did some really nice fake-outs in this episode. I thought Ormond, him bringing back the. Hugh Hammer's brother-in-law. Hugh Hammer's brother-in-law, exactly. Also from Andor. Yeah, that's right. And executing him. Yeah. Or having Darren pop his cherry, execution cherry. I also thought that the Daemon-Rhaena scene was quite good. - Yeah. - And gave that character like a slightly different pitch to throw which i thought was was welcome you know damon is is the my among my favorite reasons for watching the show and matt smith's performance but having him just be like god like what do i have to do to save this girl's life uh and was just an excellent scene and an excellent like piece of plot mechanics i thought i think this season is already so much better than season two and i'm curious to see if we feel like we continue to climb yes or you know i don't know what the like even the people who reviewed this season i think only got the first four episodes so i don't know what the back half is gonna do i i saw on vulture the vultures recap foregrounded though like i was told there would be battles sentiment it was kind of like i thought after last season and all the throat clearing like we were gonna get some real like some action and i think um that will inevitably be the second half of the season i don't know how much longer we're gonna have to wait but i mean it's weird because it's like i i i do know what's going to happen yeah um you read the wikis i've read the wikis yeah you know and so i love wiki i'm kind of like it's it's funny to not have any kind of like mystery to it but also like a lot of anticipation for for some of these sequences that i think are coming up but what's interesting about wiki reading or even fire and blood reading is that it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like you know like there's so little content in episodes three and four that are from the book fire and blood you know and so you know our whole shtick of like let's explain what happened in the book versus the show you have to like sort of think outside the box in terms of how you cover it and that's exciting for us because we don't know we know what happens but we don't really know how it happens and i can't wait to find out do you think that because you know we have house of the dragon we're gonna get another season of that uh we have uh young egg on night of the dragon of the seven kingdoms although not really full-blown maniac targaryen yet and we might have a gwan's conquest as a movie yeah if i had told you uh 15 years ago 15 okay well however long ago when thrones debuted 10 15 years ago that the thrones project would be so targaryen based would you have been like that makes sense because that's what a lot of the text is about well no only because george hadn't uh published fire and blood at that point okay and hadn't made it clear that like targaryen history was something that he was interested he had done duncan egg but like duncan egg doesn't feel like a targaryen story at all and then he had written he he wrote this like wiki-esque book um you know like a reference book almost that has some of the targaryen history in it but like leaning into fire and blood that being the only thing he's published since the dance of dragons which is insane gives them the best material to adapt is there any other like stark or lannister yeah well they were supposed to do the like coreless conquering the world show um there's a like nightmeria show that like there's just a lot of shows that they've floated but like my understanding immediately after thrones ended uh there were people who wanted to dunk an egg right away and hbo said we want dragons so if you're gonna have dragons you gotta have targaryen dragons you gotta have dragons you gotta have targaryens so that's where we are that's it i mean i i would love it if there was like another thing in development that was maybe a little bit less blonde well you know i think what really excites me about duncan a working as well nine of the seven kingdoms working as well it did and getting i mean nominated is like the possibility of the powers that be at hbo thinking okay where else in west rose can we go that feels a little smaller but more approachable and exciting for people and there's this uh you know there's this play debuting um in stratford i want to say it was in oxford i can't remember they're doing a stage show called the mad king which so that's really but it's about uh the tourney at heron hall which is like kind of what kicked off the whole roberts rebellion war but like that's kind of even though it's called the mad king not really a targaryen story and so that's like pretty exciting that they're exploring that i wonder do you want to go with mallory and me to go see it sure okay great in england yeah i'll do anything in england great yeah uh that's what i was told i wonder whether or not i'm i'm very curious to know because like you know i to the extent that i can tell i think house of dragon is very well like lots of people are watching it yes you know i'm always fascinated as i as i see people greet the avengers doomsday concept art which may or may not be official or whatever it was with sort of like oh okay yeah and reactions to the russo's quotes and stuff like that being like you guys aren't done this movie yet this is coming out like two months yeah uh what does that tell you well i wonder whether thrones will ever go the way of like it's you know it had its moment and then it goes or is this like how durable is this storytelling if george doesn't finish the books and or suggest something that happens well after john snow goes north unlike mart like what's your what's your count so marvel you're like it had its moment and now it's sort of running on fumes to a certain degree yeah i mean i'm very excited for the paul bedney vision show um personally and also wonder man got a got a great nomination yeah he's amazing that show that was fantastic but i won't disagree that marvel's running on fumes right now but like what's the world that you know star wars endured in its own way like so is it just we need a galaxy to a galaxy far far away to play with a westeros a galaxy far yeah i think there's always going to be a fascination i mean i think that you we probably look back on this time period and be like dune was also quite dominant for eight years or however long it's going to be actually more like five or six years right yeah pretty fast clip um you know there there are different pieces of ip that reign supreme at any given moment i think one thing that's marked a lot of these things is that they have to go away for a while for people to miss them and that's something that i don't think that the people who own the rights to these things are willing to do right anymore they used to be used to but like well i think okay so here's i problem with marvel versus a problem with marvel versus westeros is that marvel's intention is for everything to click together in place and so that means despite them saying oh black panther is so different or this is so you know dr strange is a horror or something like that there's a you know homogenous nature to marvel that that the westeros space shows don't have to have and so the best example of that is 97 kingdoms which does feel extremely tonally different yeah if not formally not formally different than than uh thrones did hot d is trying to be more thrones like yes but if we're thinking of an agon conquest movie and a mad king play and a comedy like 907 kingdoms it just means that westeros is a place where you can tell all kinds of stories especially if you're not trying to make them click together yes i mean i it's there's also like something fascinating about the fact that for a lot of these stories or a lot of these franchises they do have like a demarcated like this and this is when the story ends like not only is thrones not finished but we have an idea we we know like they won one of my favorite reactions to the episode two of the season of hot d when raniera you know takes the king's landing they're like all this for brand to wind up you know like all of this fuss and then brand's gonna sit on the throne so but it but i don't you know obviously hot d is not as um big as thrones was at its peak not as seven kingdoms is much beloved but also a much smaller show so definitely the ending of thrones and house of dragons season one not not quite scratching that itch for people has shrunk the it's not like the audience has grown it has contracted but i but it's still like a very healthy audience oh yeah and i think that like one thing i sometimes don't really understand until i like angelus is how many people out there are like oh i've read those books like 10 times yeah like you know i i know you and mallory have but i don't know sometimes like when i'm in a bar and somebody's like well i've i've read i've read it i might just reread it to get ready for this or whatever you know what i mean like it's it is it is a fandom that is pretty profound it's true but like that was also true if we love time and then that just didn't stick sure you know what i mean but but i think dune is a is a good comp for that in terms of like people will just read dune over and over and over and over and over again i mean dune is almost the inversion of marvel because they were like we have a filmmaker who's very special yeah and because of that filmmaker this cast will do it and we are going to make this happen in a very condensed period of time right but also denny is like i'm is he's not saying i'm gonna adapt every dune book no he's like i'm doing the first two yes and then we're done yes that's what we're doing we're doing a trilogy and and will warner brothers say okay well they did right yeah we got the benedict show which did not work so um are you excited for dune 3 hugely excited and i mean i love i love the odyssey we're going to cover it extensively on house of r you're going to cover it on the big pick but like the odyssey i consider the odyssey genre ip sure so i think the i think project hail mary the odyssey and dune 3 being like the one two three of this ten polls of this year is good news for quality sort of yeah genre adaptation yeah but they are increasing seem to be big screen you know i just i know it's just been a minute since i mean like even i was trying to think of like any i don't even think there is a star wars tv show live action tv show is ahsoka doing another season yes okay is that this year or next year next year it's definitely next year yeah is there another one in like in the well yeah it's like there's no star trek project in the works there's no doctor who like this is i think the first time in i don't know 50 years that there isn't either a doctor who or a star trek project interesting yeah it's a big weird time i hope nothing like really bad happened the last time that occurred right um jordy thank you so much for joining me oh my god what a thrill uh thanks to kaya and kai and sarah uh we'll be back on thursday with andy covering a bunch of stuff that we missed uh everybody have a wonderful world cup semifinals any predictions i'm gonna go argentina spain that's what i think okay but you're the expert that's what everyone's saying the best four teams in the world and i think that this is like really really tight on both sides yeah yeah but it was interesting the argentina swiss game like they had some momentum they did they were sweating they did the big gianni came in and was just like that's we got we got to get these guys out of here i can't have the swiss in the semifinals uh we'll talk to you guys on thursday endless summer escapes start here travel the worlds of netflix irl inspired by fan favorites like stranger things and squid game brave the upside down face off with the front man play leveled up arcade games shop exclusive merch and enjoy themed food and drinks beat the heat play eat and shop on repeat at netflix house at galleria dallas bring your crew and save get your tickets today at netflix.com slash house relax and let kroger delivery handle your grocery shopping this week we start with only the 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