Wie berechne ich meinen Bonus? Interview mit Centify CEO Alexander Dosse

Welcome to another episode of Anfax Sales Podcast. I am Morten and today I am not alone. Those who see it as a video will see it now. Otherwise, you have probably already seen it in the title. Here is someone else. That is Alex. Moin Alex. Moin Morten, thank you so much for being here today. Yes, it's great that you are here. Because we have a super exciting topic with us today. I'll tell you now. Provisional models, incentive systems. How do you do that particularly well? Why are you the right one to talk to? I'm very curious where our conversation is going today. Do you like to say something to you in a few short sentences? And so that the listeners know who you are, why you are here today? Yes, of course. Very, very much. Yes, I am Alex. I would say I am someone who carries sales in their hearts. And I am a founder of Centify and also responsible for the sales there. And basically what we do at Centify. There I would like to quote the founder of Plancraft, which I recently learned at the event. And he said, if I understood that correctly, then you are the wet dream of the salesman. And I think you can just leave it like that. Basically, what we do at Centify is we give the salesman a real-time view of what he has already earned. Provisional, that's always exciting, especially when we close a deal. And we also help the admins to get away from the exilists and to automate the whole thing. Yes, let's start directly with the question. So you have a software with which you can train professional models in Centify systems well. Both the company itself can control and know what costs come to us. On the other hand, the seller knows what he has. Why do you need it? So why are you on the market? Yes, that's a very good question. I can now just repeat what we have noticed in the validation phase. We have talked to over 100 companies, there are now over 500 companies. You can say, well, 3/4, 75% of the companies still work with exil. So they simply don't have a solution for it. And there are already offers on the market, mostly from the USA. So why then the question, exactly a good question, why do you actually need Centify? And it's actually quite simple. When we talked about it, many providers from the USA are certainly GDPR compliant. That's one point. But there are also many companies that have treated the topic thoroughly so far. Because that's often a topic that doesn't go up to the level of the target. When the salesman says, hey, my provisions are misplaced. So these are always things that are a bit worse under the ceiling. And we have said everything clearly. This is a market that is still in Europe, a thin settlement where we still have a chance to see. And yes, we have founded the first customers in August last year. And yes, it has proven that we can still see success in the market. We also know a few players from the USA. I have also spoken with one or two tools within Germany. Because of course, the topic is coming up again and again with our projects. But there has also not really been a huge topic so far. The solution is not always the question of being aware of the problem with your customers. Many people probably have the problem. The few know that you can solve it outside of Excel. And then the few go even less to the search now. In this case, I would say a big, big outbound approach. How are you doing it right now? What are you currently doing for customers? As I have already said, we finance our own supply. The resources are limited somewhere. Currently, we are doing complete outbound sales. Our ICP has defined us there. And the nice thing is that we can really see some statements from companies that simply are not in our ICP, which of course also strengthens our ICP. Because if we are already on the topic of ICP, I can put it there. We have a solution for all companies out there who have at least a distribution of 20 people. And then HubSpot, Salesforce, or also T-Sale, they also have a link to SoHo in the application. And yes, really absurd how many companies really have SoHo. Mostly IT-driven, where the IT people say, "Oh no, we don't buy anything, we have it somewhere else." We can't do that. From the outside, I'm always a little annoyed when we have SoHo projects. But HubSpot is simply the solution that works well. But okay, we're just wrong. That means outbound channel, you talk to your customers actively. And that's why I fully understand your pipeline. That's good. But that shouldn't be the case today. I would be interested if you get into your projects. So if someone is on your axis and you have your first or second term. What are the standard problems or topics that you always see? Where you say, "That's the classic and that's why you also have the problems." Where you can ideally place your product. But are there any classic problems or patterns that make people wrong when it comes to the incentive system? Yes, I would say there are definitely various ones. So the biggest problems that arise again and again are that the incentive systems are much too complex. Because you have to imagine that provisions are a topic that also contains a lot of ego in the company. Because there is always the VP of sales or the CEO who wants to give his/her stuff. Then there is the CEO, then there is the CFO. And then a lot of companies come together. And in Germany we have the beautiful word "too many companies waste the three". And that is often the case. You always try to be justified. And then you really have a halftime solution there. For example, there is a salesman who has to hunt down six KPIs. So as a salesman we want to have it as simple as possible. We want to quickly understand what comes and why. Because I have to pay attention to it. If you have six KPIs that are important to the business everywhere, but are far too complex for you as an individual contributor, then you will be demotivated if you are presented with such a model. I would say that is point number one. Point number two, and that is also an essential point, why companies say that they need a solution like Centify, is flexibility. For example, an Excel list is flexible as an Excel. You can say yes, everything is nice and good. But imagine that you are a company, not only in Germany, but also in France to expand, in Holland etc. And you want to go into the market as a company, to test different provision models. Now you can imagine what kind of Excel monster you will have in front of the lens to manage the whole thing. And that's exactly where Centify comes into play, where you can simply dock yourself to CRM, have the data that is available in CRM, and can easily form provision models. And the nice thing is that we give some guidance, because we have noticed in our validation phase, you can actually divide provision models into four upper categories, so four incentive types, that's what we call that. And then we have the built-in system behind it, so you can simply add certain things to this Centify model, to make the whole thing as efficient as possible. That would be point number two. And point number three is the topic that some companies also say they cap. That means they keep provision until a certain, I mean, they have a cap. I mean, in which world does it make sense to give a cap, right? Yeah. I'm still waiting for the justification. Yeah, let's do a link-in post. Yeah, let's do it. Now you just said that there are six KPIs, that all of them are more or less meaningful, that what I see again and again is the influence of the sell-off of the KPIs. So I understand that the CIV or the VPCales want to track the things, ideally the people who are trying to track it. According to the motto, you get what you measure. But the question is, do they have to go into the health system or can that be a management tool? And there the things slide way too fast into the health system, from my point of view. Now you just talked about four typical incentive modules or topic blocks. Can you elaborate on them so roughly? What are these four topics that people have a good idea of? So you can break it down in the classic case, that maybe everyone knows from us, the classic OTI, so on-target learning, consists of a fixed or fixed health component and a variable health component. And we call these variable health components on-target commission, OTC. So that's basically one incentive type. Then there's a second one, and that's for example, that you say, I get for every deal that I close, that I give a certain percentage of a year or a total contract value. That's called a deal participation. And then there's, for example, that you enter for certain events. So an SDA, for example, puts a term, gets a bonus payment for each SQL, for example, that comes out, gets 300 euros per se. That's called a bonus payment. That's the third one. And then there's a fourth one, so-called SPIFs, that's a special purpose incentive funds, so extra budget was set up to, for example, end-of-month, end-of-quarter sprint, which is just the team, especially for important, say, days. So it's always a little bit, especially at MWC Gaming, it's like, you have board meetings, so that you can talk to the children about board meetings. Yes, in terms of things. Yes, including new stores, via supply. Yes, I remember well, we also had, for Microsoft, both for us as well as for the customers. So, to make the deal a little more delicious for the customers, but also for the team. That's why you get that. Yes, exciting. Now you just described four things. Two are probably super exciting for most people who also listen. OTI, so in the old German term so-called target content and subject provision, so classic 3% of the turnover. What are the two or three advantages, what should I decide? What kind of team do I need so that there is one more meaning to it? Yes. So, I would say, you can say very, very simply, when you say OTI, it's all about realistic goals. That means, of course, I can, as a young company, who has just entered the market or I am building up their first team, where should I, as a salesman, or as the founder of the salesman, as the first head of salesman, where should I know that the numbers that I now base on my numbers are realistic. Of course, I have a business plan, I have to follow that. But we know business plans too. Thumbs up, how the wind is today. That's why, for example, in such a phase, a possibility is easy to convey data first, to call such a deal participation to live. That I say, hey, Morten, watch out. We do it very simply. You get 15% provision for every deal you close. And if you reach a certain maximum, you can define it in such a way, you get an Accelerate, you can work back, for example, on all deals you closed, 20%. But if you don't know exactly what your monthly year's realistic goal is, what you can do in the company, rather on provision, i.e. part of the company. And if you can forecast it clearly and have more experience, then on such an OTI system. That's great. Especially when new markets are entering. I think especially for us, the goals that we see, that are currently being explained in various countries, many are still in Germany, have a goal market or the main market, but are currently expanding, for example, France, Netherlands. And that, for example, is so. Where should I know what works there? Because not what works in Germany, also works automatically in another country. And I would normally recommend that we avoid what lies in Germany as a provision model. First of all, look at the fact that you go in with a deal department to raise data first. Because that can be transferred to the cellar as well. And say, hey, we can do it now, but it doesn't bring you anything. Because we don't know whether the numbers are realistic. That's why we would like to raise data together with you, grow together with you. And that would be our proposal. Because that's the way it is. You can, of course, push everything through top-down, but if there is a certain acceptance of the cellar, then it won't be a problem. I already had one or two situations where we had this discussion. With the OTE system, you can also take activities besides conversion sizes. That's what you say. 10% of this variable part is the number of activities, number of calls, whatever. But above all, with provisions, the topic, if you still don't know how big your deal sizes will be, then it is, of course, an OTE even more difficult. Because with the provisions, it's already difficult, because you say, I don't know, after we make our deals, our deal size is 1 million. And then the colleague gets 150,000 from you. Or they're just 10k big. I mean, our spread is rare, but in some young markets, it's sometimes where you just don't know exactly how big we are actually on the road. Because how big is the need? Or, for example, it has to be a new market. It can also be a new vertical. It can also be, for example, you can go from SMB to BitMarket or Enterprise, depending on the company, that's defined for themselves. These are also all new areas where you may not have any experience yet. Because the number of customers that you have won in these segments is so small that you just have to test it first. And that's exactly the right point, I think, where there is a relevance of a software solution that is relevant. Imagine you're a salesman and you have a new quarter in front of you, and you want to introduce it to a new provision model. What does each salesman do? Of course, he looks at me and makes me better or worse. He wants to know that. Now, what would be the exercise? You have to sit down, you have to build some Excel models that are up against each other, or you have to see how you perform. But imagine, you have a tool, you have a one-on-one with your salesman and you say, "Hey Morten, last quarter, that's how it will be based on the new model." Based on historical data. So it's not bad, but you'll have to earn 3% more. So, there's no time to say, "Okay, no, I don't want to." But that's exactly what the requirements are, when you can't introduce it. And with CentiFile, you can do exactly that. You can also simulate things and show it. That means, would you have earned the provision model and that with it? That is currently still in a very down-to-earth version. But I think the listeners can agree that this will definitely be a topic that we will get into. Yes, that's exciting. And it makes sense that you have your ICP bigger than 20 employees. How many sales do you have? You get something like that a little handy, if necessary, curved with an Excel list and one-to-one conversations. But with 20 sales in the team, you don't sit there with every hour, because then the week is full. Yes, yes. That's a classic. If now, when I'm a salesman, team leader, whatever it is, depending on what the topic is about, or a whole sales team that should think about it together, what should they pay for? Can you give one or two tips with your hand? What should they pay for when a new system is built up, implemented? Yes. So basically, the simpler, the better. It should be simple, because at the end of the day, it's a control instrument. It's a control instrument, after all, for the CRO class. And of course, there is also, let's say, a control mechanism for, for example, the CFO to have planability. And that's why the simpler, the better, because what I also experience in practice is, you have, after all, an Excel list and that's a monster. And then there is often the REV option, the function that the whole thing manages. Sales operations, revenue operations, as it is in the company, just announced, and then there are dependencies to this person, because only they manage this Excel list. So, just do it, just do it so easy that it's understandable for everyone. And in the best case, you have automated it, that the salesmen can really see time, because that's also a point. When you build a provisional model, but you can't see what's actually coming around, then the effect of provisional is already complete. It doesn't actually have the motivating effect, which should have it. That's why keep it simple. And that's actually, oh, and not uncapped. We were on the topic. So important. So, always make sure that for the salesmen, over the revenue range, there is a great range. Because only then will it be good for us to say, sexy for all of us. As a seller, I just start with the cent bank. So if I'm at my 100%, then of course I will write the deal nice next quarter or schedule time and then realize it. And then the company didn't have anything like that. As I said, that's totally nonsense. What do you get from, I always call it thresholds. You have to reach that. First, 50,000 per month. Then you get your 10% off everything. Where do you get nothing? How do you find that? Difficult question, because when I do that, I see the mixed opinion. I already have a lot of CROs to talk about, VP Sales or just founders. From the CFO's point of view, the cost perspective, I say it's fine, because we have the opportunity to say good. At the end of the day, we don't have to pay a provision. We have a cost block there. On the other hand, it's a bit like you never know what will come of it. Now you may have a quarter, it doesn't work that well. And then you are very demotivated because you didn't pay a provision. So I personally would say, take a closer look at your employee, that you are able to make progress, to make appointments, to carry out appointments and to close afterwards. But I personally am not a fan of such a minimum threshold. Now we have talked a lot about, at least in my head, a lot about software companies. It's also a bit like where you are mainly docked. How does it look with other organizations? Have you ever dealt with in which areas, outside of software or SaaS, is it relevant? Yes, a very good question. Because that's actually something I really like to learn. So we just noticed, of course, that we first focused on the SaaS companies. Why digital stuff, especially of course, then very, very easy adoption, because you understand what's in front of you. But what we also see right now is, for example, Solar providers, so Solarpennell sellers. Classical, and you noticed that. There was a huge boom in the industry. There were quite a lot of Solar companies coming out of the ground. I mean, there are N-palas, there are 1.5 degrees. But there are still many others, maybe not that big, but still want to contribute something to the G-band. Then, quite exciting, I don't believe, educational providers. So classical private universities have also... What did you say? Exactly. Yes, but otherwise I'm also very interested in listening to companies that say, "Hey, we use it too, for example, you have it, or we also have sales force, and we also manage everything in Excel. Let's switch to that." So if someone is there, they say, "Wow, I'm not on the road now, but I have a classical project business or, say, once-in-a-lifetime sales, then of course I would be very interested to learn from this person." Yes, exciting. Very good. You already gave this a hint. If you listen to people here now, they say, "Hey, the topic interests me." So, step one, just call or write, write to Alex. Of course, but I don't see everyone right away the need or the need. I find the topic exciting. How can you somehow inform the topic in your direction or keep up with it? Yes, very good point. So what I always do, I'm very active on LinkedIn, just a lot of my knowledge on LinkedIn. That means, you can connect with me. But you can also follow our LinkedIn page on Instagram. So people say, "I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I don't want to hang around for the whole day. I would like to get a bit of a headache. We could also do Instagram. There is a bit more fun where we can identify the good memes in a classical way. And yes, who knows, maybe there will be a few more podcast episodes, where I mean, you know, there will be a few more podcast episodes, which I think will be interesting. Yes, I think there will be a few more podcast episodes, where I mean, you know, you can get a bit of a headache. So, I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. I would like to get out of LinkedIn. 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