‘Widow’s Bay’ Is One of Apple’s Boldest Swings Yet. Plus, ‘Top Chef’ Restaurant Wars.

I need supports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now! Hello and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at TheRinger.com and joining me in the studio looking for the next Martha's Vineyard, it's Andy Greenwald! I'm excited for today's show kind of a genre's act. It is a genre's act, especially from the Scarity Cat across from me here. Andy, we are going to be talking about Widow's Bay, which is a new show on Apple TV. We're going to talk about Top Chef. We have a little bit of news at the top. We have a grab bag of popular culture that we're going to hit on from the world of movies and music and television. It's great to see you. It's Thursday. We can keep its layer hair down. If we have hair, let it down. You want to unveil something? Yeah, I like to find my trip to Turkey. Is this time? If I can work down. Can I ask you a quick question before we get into it? Yes. As always, I am a dedicated follower of your appearances across the podcasting space. I really was enjoying your appearance on the Bill Simmons podcast. Until? The other day. No, okay. So you kindly went on the Bill Simmons podcast. You had an invitation to come on, I think, in the assumption that you would be there to be. So I will say this. Yeah. Two Bill's credit. Yeah. I was on Bill Simmons's podcast the other day. Typically, I have gone on in humiliating moments in Philadelphia sports and sometimes it feels a little humiliating for me personally. Sure. That being said, days before Bill was like, you haven't been on in the NBA playoffs. Okay. And I was like, I have it. And then he hit me up on Tuesday and was like, are you around? I was supposed to do the mailbag with them that morning, I think. Yes. And instead came on for the night shift with late night house. Which is a great team. You guys are great together. Uh, I, I thought that you guys were going to suggest some local, like, um, kill rock stars bands to beat cheap half-time entertainment. Did you get a late part of the pod? I'm getting there. Okay. But here's my point. I want to bring this relevant. This is not just for the sports heads out there. Okay. So you came on feeling good about the Sixers had a really nice victory. Um, and he wanted to talk about Derek White. Yes. Then how he was slightly disappointing. I mean, what is the TV equivalent of that? If I came on here and I was like, Chris, beef season two is everything I want. In a TV show this year. And you were like, Allie Wong kind of didn't show up this year. And I just kind of focused on what she was doing instead. Like, how could we do that for TV to each other? I don't mean to throw this back at you. But is it kind of like talking about you for you without ever having watched you for you? Yes. However, now you're giving me ideas that what I could do instead is just talk about how I spent my Sunday nights in 2018 and 2021 or whenever the show came up. Yeah. Um, made a nice dinner. I went to bed. I was wondering if you heard the Greenwald bait at the end of that whole segment. I haven't made it there yet. Okay. All right. There's something in there. There's a release direct for me. Well, because I believe this argument started during the LA confidential taping that you were obviously a part of. Yeah. But there has been like this like rolling debate between me and Bill and others about REM versus the replacement. Oh, I heard that you touched on this. And I did. You heard. Yeah. Oh. Like in the Washington Post. No, what I do is I talk to people who listen to the podcast. I just have like member, member of Varys on Game of Thrones. Like I have a little army of, what do you call them? Little birds. Master of Whisperers. Yeah. I've got some podcast. Little birds. And we, you know, a lot of the problem with this argument is that the parameters of the, what are we arguing about is not quite clear. Like I can tell Bill wants to just say REM is better than the replacement. She's more than welcome to say, but his point is more like you guys think that the replacements were bigger. But REM was the biggest. And I'm like, I have no doubt. That's true. I was there. That's objectively true. But REM briefly was the biggest band in the world. But I can imagine you are REM over replacements guy. Because it's a head versus heart thing. This is tough. I, you were one of the biggest REM fans. I know. REM is my gateway. REM is my everything. Like, all right, here's, you know, prior to this moment, I think the most revealing and nerdy, nerdiest thing I've ever said about my own self-lorer on this podcast was talking about the Twin Peaks fanzine. I made on dot matrix printers in my middle school. It's face that you think that's the nerdiest thing you've said on this podcast, but that's about my past. Everything since then when you were watching euphoria is fair game. My best friend, Larry and I were so into REM in like 1990 that we made our parents take us to Athens, Georgia. We begged to have a spring break trip to Athens, Georgia just to be in the town they were from. And I believe unconfirmed 30 plus years later. I believe maybe we met their manager's mother. Oh, that's nice. How did you do that? Did you walk around Athens being like, REM? REM, please come out. I mean, you know, you have to do it more in code. You know, you have to sort of do like sing little scraps of song, song, song, each like into pushes. And then maybe some people come out. No, I was like, you know, you would want to head red in a magazine that like Michael Stipe enjoyed the vegetarian hot dog. So he just drove down Identify to Athens, Georgia. No, we flew in an airplane. Must be nice. Yeah, they was. Listen, the economics were different then. You know what I mean? A family of four could take a trip to a college town without bankrupting the whole year. Were you doing it under the auspice of an early college visit? I was 13. There would be no. No, it was purely, I can't believe this. Like now I'm on the other side of this. And if my children were like, please, please take us to the home of the creator of the amazing digital circus. The weird cartoon that's on Netflix. I would say, I would say who's this? Why are you texting me? But my, our moms took us on this trip to do relatively nothing. If I, if Foust came to me, you know, when his Foust, the guy that they devil makes a deal with or is Foust. I think if Foust came to you, he'd be like, don't take the deal. Okay, if I was offered a devil's deal where I had to do something terrible. But I got to know what your life would have been like if you would attended the University of Georgia. First of all, drafted by how he rose, man, I would have it. I would have been a 11th year senior water boy. Still have eligibility. Still have some eligibility left. No, but teach your question. Red shirting for anxiety every year. And you read your for anxiety? I'm sure. Now you can. Can I do it right now? Because I feel a little exposed. So REM was like my gateway drug to all indie music and was my favorite band when I was a kid. And then from there I went to other places, including discovering the replacements. Who became much more important to me like high school and to college. Okay. So I kind of can't do it. But if the argument is who is objectively bigger, it's unquestionably REM. But replace the replacements whole. The reason we love them is because they were so self-defeating and such a giant mess. Yeah, I think also there was like a definitive cutoff play where REM obviously stopped touring. Bill Berry left the band. They made like one or two more records. They kept touring. Even without Bill Berry. They continue to make records in tour for 14 more years. Well, I guess I got my facts wrong there. I just was there was something about like the. But that month that was the end of it. There were places that had a little bit more like mythology, not mythology. Like there was a little bit more like do you think they'll ever get back together? Do you think they'll ever tour again? And then they did. And then they did. Did you go to that show? I didn't. But I'm not actually a big reunion show guy. You just great. You know what I was doing at that moment? I was slowly pulling in the high ground. Like I just won a big handed poker and you just yanked the table far. No, it's not that. I just I've seen. I think of the reunion shows that I've seen. Yeah. Mission of berm is still by far the best. Cool. Do you go to the my bloody Valentine show? No. I think that I have structural damage still to my sternum. Wait, which era of rose land like, I don't know, 15, 16 years ago. No, I didn't. Do you still have like bad hearing because of that? Huh? Sorry. I felt in my bones. This is by the way, we haven't had like a meeting with the higher ups and Sweden recently. But I imagine this is doing numbers. Well, we're talking about the best way to start. I think it's okay to open with like a little bit of chatter. That's my, as in the executive research. So are you and House on the, on the, as your point that like you like the replacements? I think they've lasted like Bill, Bill was sort of trying to say like, I have great music taste and House and I were, I think a little bit rejecting that House also referenced minor threat and Fugazi, which I think might be the first time those bands have come up on any of Bill's podcasts and in the 20 years he's been doing it or whatever. I think the words minor and the words threat have appeared. They might be like Franz Wagner is a minor threat to get 18 points today. That's what I'm saying. I mean, the band minor threat. Let's talk a little bit about the Chicago front office strategy is Fugazi right now. How is that? That's right. See, I can do it. There is no front office. Okay. Okay. There's not a lot of TV news this week. There's some culture news. We could do this, which is Laura Dern is replacing Helena bottom Carter. We talked about that on Monday on White Lotus. Laura Dern replacing Helena bottom Carter, Grand Platinum replacing Janet Mills, who you got. I mean, it's our replacing her. She just ran out of dough. Yeah. That's what happens when you run up against socialist. All those small donations. Yeah. That's how I get by. Every guy gives me a buck. Yeah. Every guy who sees you. Yeah. Awesome. That's great. Laura Dern, Mike White. Reunited. The question is, you know, the White Lotus, the Natasha Rothwell character, the Jennifer Coolidge character, obviously, connective tissues multiple seasons. Laura Dern voice acted in season two. Oh, yeah. Yeah, as Dominic DeGrasso is Michael and Purely. really all these characters, wife. Do you think Mike White got in his bag and was like, she's coming to France. I think that's an option. That's a very cool idea. That hadn't occurred to me. I mean, there's something about the immediacy with which this happened, you know? And if you were like, I have to create a whole new character or a whole cloth and why they're here and what their role is. 'Cause it did sound like he was like, we're scrapping that character. Don't you think it's a little bit like when we needed a first guest for stick the landing and somehow you got the call? Was that first? Well, on our list, yeah. We actually changed the scheduling a little bit, so you didn't, you know, we don't want to get too-- - I hadn't seen stuff. - But, you know what I mean? Like Lord, they clearly have a deep connection and creative relationship. So, under the circumstances that they are currently filming. And what's in, you know, that was an easy call to make. I think what's interesting is, what you said is the most interesting thing. Slightly below that was just in the release that he was writing an entirely new character for her. Which suggested, like, I lazily assumed that that character was in some way connected to Steve Guggen's character. - Yes. - Maybe they were a couple. - Two words. My other favorite thing is the white lotus is, like, normy famous now in the way that, like, I saw there were tabloid photos of like, Helena Bonham Carter in first photos since Shock White Lotus exit. And it just looks like Helena Bonham Carter. - What periodical was that? - What? - The Tatler? - I don't know. - What was it? - It was a daily mail? - I mean, I saw this on the internet's front page Reddit. But like, she's just, she just looks like Helena Bonham Carter. - Sure. - She's probably just like, I'm going to Pratt, you know? - Jenny would like so. - She did not look particularly troubled or different? - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's cool. - That'll be interesting of the daily mail and the New York Post and whatever gets, like, involved with, like, set photos of white lotus. If it's achieved to that status, I'm sure it actually has. - Yeah. - You don't want to be in that paper. It's never a good thing if you show up in the New York Post. - I'm trying to think, I'm trying to think the alternative of that. Like, if you hit a game winning home run for the-- - Yes, that's possible. - Right. - Which, I mean, is that possible? - Nine, don't come on, don't tempt feet. Nine times out of 10, if you're in the New York Post, it's a bad thing. - Yeah, I think that's right. - Oh. - That's right. Have you ever been in the New York Post? - Kind of. I think I appeared in a story that my wife was wrote in, like, 2002. 2003. - Was it about subway surfers? - No, honestly, it was about the smoking ban and whether it was still being enforced. - Oh, yeah. - And so-- - It was, you mean, like, 2002? - Whenever it was new. - Mike kicked it in. When did you do that? - So you're saying it was, like, on the heels of the ban-- - I feel like he let us smoke after 9/11 for a little while. When did he ban the cigarettes? It was Giuliani through 9/11. - Yeah. - And then Bloomberg comes in and oh, no, no, that was, and the backdrop of 9/11 was the mayoral election. - That's right. - You know. - Well, I just remember Rudy at Yankee Stadium. - Mark Green would have let you keep smoking, probably. - Was he in the candidate? - He was the presumptive next mayor of New York until 9/11 happened. And then Giuliani was like, I gotta stay mayor. - Oh, right. - You know. - There's such a custodian of New York political history. - I think it's important. - Okay, so we have the Lord during thing. - I'm sorry, were you pro or con in Phoebe's article? - I was, no, I did research. I like helped her. - Yeah, you did. (laughing) - What were the places you went to see if they were good? - We were up on like the upper east side and it was like going to different bars. And we kind of split up 25 bars, which in New York is like three blocks. - That's rookie numbers, by the way. - And you just walk in and you'd say to the bartender, like you'd have to order something and then you'd be like, - Oh no, wait, you had to get a drink too? - Are we allowed to smoke? And you know, you wouldn't expose them, but you would be like percentage wise. You know, in this sample size, like this is how many people are still letting you smoke. - Are you willing to do that again? - I don't think anybody would let me do it, especially not out here. All they care about is wellness. - Would you try though? - No, I mean, I don't really smoke that much. - The legend is better than reality. (laughing) - I don't know how to segue to this. - You wanted to talk about a music video. - Oh, I just thought it was great. - Can you set it up a little bit? - I didn't have in front of me, but like this is, - No, young lean video. - Swedish rapper turned crooner, I guess, in some ways. Young lean, I did a song with a, I think producers named Generation, or producer, I'm sorry, I don't know. And he put out like a two-part epic single and Romain Goveris. - That's your man. - Who I like, he's still making quite a bit. - Is he coast of the sun? - He did, he is. - Is that an Epo baby to you? - Sure he's out. - Okay, so heavily influenced by Tosiyaki, Toyota's blue spring, so Japanese film from a while ago. It's basically about a bunch of prep school kids beating the shit out of each other, treating each other terribly. But in this young lean video, there's like a last-- - Yeah, at that point. - 14-second mark. - A Kota, like a kind of four, five minute endpoint where it's just got this incredible choreography. And you texted me last night. - I mean, I was partly joking that we should talk about that as a mean text. - You didn't say I'm joking, you said, "Let's talk about this tomorrow." - That's probably, that does sound like me. - You got me. That's my classic straight down the middle. - This has become quite a big thing on the internet though. - Yeah, I just thought, I mean, it just filled me with joy because choreography is the best special effect in the world, and it was incredible to see something. It just felt really exciting to have all the things that are thrown at us and like all these herring images of Helen Abonum Carter shopping untroubled by being fired from a television show to see something that was so viscerally throttling, exhilarating, shocking, new, magnetic. And it's just, it's just dancing. And it's an incredible one shot and we can still make stuff. And that's pretty much where I was at with it. I thought it was beautiful. - I thought it was a fabulous filmmaking. And I also just really love it like every couple of years. Maybe every year, you know, you get an example of the music video is like a still really viable form, which is really cool. And the pod's called the watch. We tell people what to watch. They should watch this. - Or we just say what we've watched. - Yeah, but like I think people draft off us, you know? Like they're like, where could we go that these guys have been? - I think they use us a couple of other pods and they make a consensus big board. And then they watch what they want to watch. - Should we get to the main event today? - You're being very silent on the mando and Grogu numbers. - Talk to me about that. - No, I got nothing. It just like it hit tracking. And it's now projected to make $80 million over Memorial Day weekend, which is quite a large amount of money. - I guess like in retrospect, I don't know what I thought would be, I did not think that this movie was gonna perform out to expectations. I may be, I would very curious to see if it gets over. What is it? I think consider the Star Wars Mendoza line, which is Solo's box office numbers. - I think the argument that they are going to make, which I think will be interesting to watch the spin, will be, we didn't spend that much on this. And ha ha we got you to watch a TV show in the movie theater. They won't add the ha ha park. That's me editorializing. But there will be an enormous amount of spin on background and on foreground saying, this is actually a different, you dummies don't get it. This is a different strategy. - Because it's a hard like a huge like multi-platform storytelling initiative or what? - No, but we just didn't spend very much money on this. And so our, we spend more on marketing and the number we got to is profitable for us. Whereas even if it makes the exact same amount of, and I would believe this, this isn't necessarily spin. If it makes the exact same amount of money as Solo, I would imagine this movie is going to be more profitable because Solo was a famously tortured development process that in which the director was replaced, directors were replaced like two thirds of the way through. That was going to lose money regardless to a degree that we probably will never know the full extent of. Whereas this maybe won't, but all of that is them spinning the fact that this kind of just looks like a Verizon commercial. - Is there any interest in your household in seeing this? - No, no. - But they also have no interest in Star Wars. - Right. - I don't know. - Maybe they were just like Grogu's cute. - No, no, no interest in Star Wars, no interest in Harry Potter. It's weird the way that they're uninterested specific properties that their father couldn't care less. One day we'll figure out what the common denominator is. - Yeah, I mean, the anticipation for this, I think I've gone from like, I won't be seeing this to like, I'll see this out of professional obligation, I suppose. - Yeah. - All right. - But. - Does that mean Sean beg you to see it? - No, nobody beg me to do anything. I mean, it's just a, - Nobody does. I mean, it's not like anybody's just like, please, see Mando. - Josh Demaro on the phone. It's either I'm gonna have to cut 1300 more jobs if you don't go see Mando. - This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something. Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for, that's when Prime's same day delivery has your back. Getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit amazon.com/prime to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas. Terms apply. All right, let's get to the main thing because this is an exciting- - It is, we are not stalling. - Widows Bay is a new show that's on Apple TV. The first two episodes are already up, although I believe the list of release date was the 29th. I think it went up maybe a little early, maybe I don't know how to really read release dates. It's created by Katie Dippelt who is a pretty accomplished screenwriter who did a pretty hilarious Sandra Bullock and Melissa McCartney movie that he worked on the Ghostbusters reboot, worked on Parks and Rec. [BLANK_AUDIO] Responsible for one of the greatest tweets of all time the the the key master of of social media You told me remembering the time that I Dressed my friends are having a Halloween party and I dressed up as the Boba Duke and it was really more of an adult Stinking wine situation and isn't there a picture of her dressed as the Boba Duke with everybody else's dress normally lives Ran free in my head forever and weirdly that tweet. I think is more relevant to this show than some of her other credits So it's created the first episode written by Katie Dippold and then it's directed by Think in its entirety Not entirely, but you know it's here a mori the great here mori Atlanta Mr. Mrs. Smith station 11 but the other but the other directors on this are Andrew D. Young who did friendship and works in Tim Robinson T west who I think has done tie west has done some Films that you have seen Not yes hero did I believe five okay of the ten the logline for this is quote a skeptical mayor of a new England Town refuses to bow to the superstitions of the residents who claim that the place is cursed it stars Matthew Reese a pod favorite as mayor Tom Loftus K. O Flynn now a watch favorite who plays his colleague Patricia in city hall. She's a British West end And was in show that I loved a lot called my lady Jane from Oh two years ago. Yeah, and she's fantastic in that and Then it has basically a That guy character actor all start to take the cast conversation put it down the road a minute because I can't wait I'll talk about that. This show is awesome. Yes. These first two episodes are fantastic I think this is the best use of apples money because I think looks like they bought a town Like they bought it yes, yes that I've seen since the iPhone 14 like Macbook. Neal is pretty cool. I saw in the story of the other day No, this is this is what I This is what I want Apple TV to be doing more of and to be trying more of and when you see what Katie Dippelden here in where I do with the first two episodes you're gonna be like why does everything else look like and Feel like what it looks like and feels like and why is everything else written the way that it's like I think this is phenomenal This is we are we are suddenly in the clover here because I love beef season two and I think this show is astounding like I This is gonna mean something to you. I watched the pilot twice. Did you I don't watch anything twice that young lean video. I barely remember it I think you should start sending me like 18 things you want to talk about on the podcast and then be like oh I wasn't serious about hockey I that's hockey is the one thing I don't text you 18 times a day about those cherry picking I text you Constantly I I thought this was just like a revelatory enjoyable so good experience and One of the places we should start and and I want to get in the weeds with it because all of the small details are So expert and it's not just the production values of where it's shot It's the filters on the cameras that he was using to make it look and feel a certain way with such taste and asceticism It's specificity, but also in watching the pilot what I was finding myself admiring so deeply was the very very classy and subtle ways In efficient ways that Widow's Bay achieves Exposition where in the flurry of action that opened the show in the first six or seven minutes There's a phone call to the police chief who's another one of these great mountain rush more of that guys It's Kevin Carroll who we loved on the leftovers and in their first interaction Kevin Carroll's chief of police says Why do you want to be why are you mayor of this town if you hate everyone in it? And it's just another little brick to build a character in the flow of the show Yeah, but the biggest thing we have to talk about I'm sorry to cut you off is the fact that this show walks a tight a genre tightrope that I did not believe To be possible. It is possible But you have to educate me on this so this this show mixes comedy and horror and there are Committees that have scary moments and there are horror movies that have funny moments But blending the two genres seamlessly is difficult. I'll give you a couple of examples that I think did it well Cabin in the woods I Think you could make the argument that there are elements of scream to scream franchise that where they indulge in like a kind of metal horror comedy That like where they're awareness of the tropes. Yeah commenting on what's happening Right night. I mean, there's plenty of examples like I like right night people might have considered ghost busters to be like a little bit of a comedy horror Although I don't think it's like super scary. I mean it's a library scene. Yeah, but it's a difficult thing to pull off because it's If you're being funny when you're being scared You wind up either not being funny or deflating the fear just deflating the scares And I think sometimes it can be a pressure valve release for people, but like for the most part when it comes to horror I like it treated fairly seriously like I want to I want to lose myself in the moment and really feel like What's happening on screen could or is happening, you know, it's like that that's part of the joy of it is the visceral Kind of like present tense of it not to muddy the waters But you had me watch the resident evil trailer. Yeah, just a moment ago And I will not be seeing the film, but I was able to admire Exactly what you're saying in that trailer. It was intense and it was visceral and there was it seemingly as much attention paid to like the Physical of like bodies dropping or tentacle like whatever. It is in reality So what you see and feel visually is incredibly captivating. Yes, present if if the main character of resident evil in the trailer like turned did a gym helper face to the camera it would definitely make me Relax more and it would undercut the whole point of it and and this show is not that that's not what Widow's Bay does So with the path that it chooses feels unique to me and fair and Artful. Yeah, and I would say that most of the comic moments or the punchlines in this or the comedy moments are very Situational so far. So they are not glib kind of mugging Everybody's sort of talking like their James gun characters kind of comedy. It's Everything is about like there's a specific character that Matthew Reese is playing and he has very specific people working around him And all the comedy becomes out of character Yeah, all the comedy comes out of like this guy's like this this woman is like this and there's like these funny interactions that they have But on top of that is the possibility that these people are all living in like a Stephen King nightmare where there's fog rolling in there There could be zombies whatever would have you I joked about the tweet Parks and Rec is a huge huge huge huge foundational piece for the show Well, what should we call this parks and rich? What should we do? We can we can workshop that the point being I would say parks and rec and the treehouse of horror episodes of the paranormal and rec Well, let's keep going. Yeah, this is a safe space and we can always ask them to cut our bad ideas right guys Um, the town of widow's Bay is a the island of widow's Bay. It is somewhere in New England I thought it was like Massachusetts-esque it might be main a jace, but it is a island that has not been discovered has not become it has not gone viral for its aesthetics. It is not a vacation hub. It is not really anything and the mayor Tom Loft has played brilliantly by Matthew Reese again like the casting Get someone who can be a compelling emotional actor, but also knows his way around a joke He is essentially the mayor Leslie nope of this town who wants what's best for everyone even if they don't agree with him And he is very motivated to publicize this place and bring it drag kicking and screaming into the 21st century Among the things keeping it in the earlier part of the 20th century is that there is no cell phone service There is no wi-fi. It is all connected by landlines Everybody knows each other, etc In the first moment you are introduced to this absolutely wonderful um Rogues gallery of locals who have quirks in the way that aren't like again. I'm not making fun of people But it's just a familiar type of single-cam comedy that we've encountered before Um, and then on the third level there's also this deep deep bench of fake history Where there are funny headlines like the way there used to be murals and parks and rec and there's even funny paintings Yeah, there used to be murals and parks and rec like you know about about Dead man found by horse and things like that. Yes, so it's sitting by whale It is elevated and it's funny, but what's Incredible about the turn and I I did want to talk to you about my ability to just not only not only watch and endure things that Scary but just love them was that The show understands something that I think maybe you do too as a fan of the genre that like The emotional line between laughing in hysteria and crying out in shock or fear It's not that much distance between those two emotional responses. Yeah here. Let's talk about that in interviews So there is that kind of like hysteria Literally uh that can veer from one to the other relatively quickly and it's just on that line in a way that feels really really natural To the piece and really captivating because I was like man we can The re i'm not joking The reason I sang the young lean video was I was like look I've just watched widow's bay and now I've watched this and we can still do stuff. Yeah the old stuff still works If you recon if you recon combine it in a new form. I uh, I think you're absolutely right. There's also a really good They're they're playing some cool tricks. You're right. This the cell phone thing is a very slick way of saying You can't ask the questions of why won't they just text each other to say don't go into the calls. It's coming Yeah, right um, so now we've got like a kind of 90s 80s sort of level of like communications with people they're also are You were speaking about the exposition. We're not doing exposition dumps though. They're exposition hints. Yeah So there is for instance, Steven root will again another like you guys got Steven root. This is going to be watchable Steven root plays a very agitated old timer Who is the antagonist of of the mayor Tom Loftus and may have been a mayor himself at some point place got him wick, I believe and You know, he is insisting that the island has quote a woken because there was an earthquake the as the episode opens There's a season opens. There's an earthquake and that this island is now got like kind of like a curse That's been activated by this earthquake and that there will be things that happen over the next couple of days that like 410 for really bad shit coming But the way he kind of puts these breadcrumbs out is not in an annoying like oh, so let me guess I have to watch like four hours of this before we get to an answer about this like you can kind of tell There is an old wives tale about this island that nobody who's born there is allowed to leave and then if they do leave They die relatively quickly after reaching mainland and there's something going on with Tom Loftus's family where the mother is not there We don't know where she is and the son who is Natural native to the island Tom Loftus was born off the island, but summer there his son was born on the island And his son is a little bit of a juvenile to link with But there is obviously a motivating Fear but also drive on the part of the mayor to be like is this is this old wives tale is this piece of folklore true and Is my son ever going to be allowed to leave this island and says he has but I I don't think I did not believe him And if he did I imagine it was quick, you know or something like that and it just produces an anxiety around it And I love you know look we all grew up with run past that house don't walk and Hold your breath by the graveyard. Yeah, just like all sorts of little like old wives tales that we probably adhered to longer in our lives Then we even admit and some people still do to these day, you know like some people don't like walking over cracks in the sidewalk Some people you know it doesn't matter, but the show really effectively plays on that psychology And it's like do I really want to find out whether my cynicism is going to get me killed So it's really really really effective in that way. I found I'm trying to think of a of a comp for what Matthew Reese is doing in this First of all, let's just take a second to admire what he has done over the last 10 years, right? So he got the Americans one of your favorite shows We were big fans of Perry Mason. I was a very big fan of him in Beaston me Oh, yeah, I was a fan of him and Beaston me and those are several different performances. Yeah He is kind of I would say like always got a degree of I got a kind of Swav Literacy to his performances and to his characters. This is a another guy. This is another kind of color for him And he is playing point card in this show because he's got 10-11 people to pass to any given moment He's the star of presumed innocence season two. I presumed innocent. I did not know that Like there's a scene in the second episode where he has a long interaction with Tim balls from from right just just names. We're saying. I want to say them all in once at some point, but yeah It's it's the ingenious like invention of this show is to just like put a very very very competent leading man in Moments where he's throwing passes to yep the best character actors that Hollywood has that TV has I mean what what were some of your favorite supporting performances? Well, I want to get into that, but I just think you're right to point out like what Reese is doing is astonishing and you understand why The town loves him even though he is not super famous because there aren't many people who can do what he can do The type of performance he's giving is this like fever dream combination of Ted Danson and Steve Carell It's you know in that like you are a talented actor who has some charisma gravitas suave suavity charm But you can get down in it and you can you can laugh too and also you can become hysterical, you know But there's a generosity of it. Yeah, he just seems to be Enjoying the note that he's being asked of the notes. He's being asked to play while everyone else gets just like You know hit the left button time and time again So Kato Flynn is amazing she's hysterical as Patricia who like when The pie the plot of the pilot is that a New York Times reporter played by another icon of this podcast actor we love Bashir Salahuddin from south side south side and top gun maverick Play what it what a CV plays a New York Times journalist who's you know It's Tom's dream to have the times right about the island and He just needs him to say this is the next Martha's vended and like the entire fortune of the island is going to change And we're introduced very quickly to the idea that this is a place that's Resisting the outside world and because of that the infrastructure of the town is kind of falling apart Patricia first thing she asked Tom about the reporter is did you tell him about my paintings Kevin Carroll we mentioned from the leftovers Dale Dickey as Rosemary in office associate and gossip Gossip you won't recognize her name You will recognize her face and her voice almost instantly next to her in the office is Jeff Hiller who won an Emmy for some Somebody somewhere And was just on pluribus Stephen root Evan Tom son is played by Kingston Rumi Southwick who is the son on presumed innocency That presumed innocent coaching tree really it's giving his sister was chasing finity of that I mean remarkable remarkable stuff a Nancy Lennahan who was just brilliant and funny in limited minutes on the paper Is is Jerry Timbolts from Righteous gemstones the bald guy in the band from righteous gemstones is one of the guys on the island Neil Casey is a funny actor who's in the Ghostbusters reboot the great Toby Husse from Paul and catch fire as the river Like the thing that I'm trying to communicate is not how amazing these people are and it's not even like what Katie and hero have done here is like A dream of like anybody who has the opportunity to make television These are the people you want to give jobs to and you want to work with because they make everything better And how fun would it be to be on an island with all these creative people It's that they came into this with the strength of material strength of point of view To tell Apple what's best now. I'm not it's not fair to suggest that like any one streamer or network is monolithic and that there's some like internal pushback to good ideas or Interesting casting, but if you don't come in as the creator with a backbone and a point of view and some institutional or historical reputational muscle you are going to get moved off your square in in the margins. Yeah, and in the margins I mean like I don't know what the arc is for Patricia and for Tom but in a traditional sitcom that's the couple that's going to happen and Once that's maybe the possibility which I don't know if it is and I don't know if I would want it to be Kato Flynn is the person who will get like the respect the respectful nods in the meetings, but won't get the part Everyone it seems like that they wanted got the part in a way that feels cohesive and it's the same way with like What would this show be if they hadn't filmed on location somewhere in Massachusetts? Sure It's not half the show that it is look I am not gonna Comp it to shows that don't do this well, but I can think of a dozen off the top of my head where when you're watching you're like Nobody here chose their outfit. No character woke up in the morning and put their clothes on the year you're on to something and in this show It's briefly mentioned that Tom was coming to the to the island As like kind of like a rich kid from the mainland right like and that like he would come and hang out with the townies But like always got to go back to his nice life And while he this has kind of been brought up. I noticed like how Tom was dressed, which is kind of like J crew spring summer like Well put together nice pair of jeans buttoned down tucked in blazer And you know he's being very earnest like he seems like he wants the best for the island But you're right like the way you communicate difference can be In whether a guy tucks a shirt in or not or what he kind of printing wears how the quarter a jacket fits him or Exactly, and it's like a guy who has like three really good outfits, you know, and Everybody else is kind of like I'm wearing a rain slicker or like I I'm still out to smoke indoors, you know, like I thought of you yeah, and It's just an attention to detail that I associate with here MRI stuff um, and that I think It's easy in TV to kind of be like here's the scripts. Here's the set Like put them in beige or gray and have them talk And you can get much deeper than that and these episodes are about 38 to 45 minutes long Which I think I am gonna keep banging this drum that that makes a huge difference the sweet spot um, and you can just see there's like a real Depth of vision and artistry going on in like all the departments So I want to talk about briefly the one other small triumph in this show that we clearly love I can't wait to watch more Um, the first episode the pilot works brilliantly and does something that surprised me in this day and age Which is it walks us to the precipice of what the show is about and then pulls it back smart smart TV making There's more road ahead. Let's enjoy it And then when it does something even more remarkable, even in this day and age of changing production models and things, second episodes are still a bear. Second episodes, despite the fact that we are not in the other than the pit, we're not in the, let's churn it out, keep it going production model that we used to be in, that caused the reputation of second episodes to dip in which it was like people second albums, like you have a lifetime to make the first, then you have two weeks to make the second. So the second episodes are generally the pilot again. Well, you find your footing with the new people, group of people in writer's room. Second episode of Widow's Bay is a completely different look into the show. It's a haunted house episode. And it every moment is packed with the kind of detail and possibility that you're describing. It gives us the show's first, I believe, genuine jump scare. And it's also like a real taste of the supernatural. Yes, but within it, it also has some of the more two episode sample size elite jokes thus far, like when spending a night in the local inn in advance of the tourist coming as a dare to, well, just to prove it's not haunted, Tom is there at the honor bar. And then he looks at like he opens the cabinet that all BNBs have of like Dick Francis paperbacks and like self-help books and board games. And the board games that he finds include daddy's home, which he plays later. And then two looking like small box, like Uno card games. One is called teeth inside of it is just like a teeth extracting wrench. And then the other one is called run and it is a deck of cards that he flips through. It says, don't run. It says not yet, not yet, not yet, not yet, not yet, run. I will carry these, the beauty of these jokes with me for quite some time. When this show is first sort of getting promoted, they did so with a VHS quality, I guess like travel ad for the island from earlier, like from decades ago. And it was, you know, like a guy basically standing on a on a rocky beach, being like, welcome to Widow's Bay, like come along. And then like the guy walks away, but the camera doesn't move. And it has a real like a little bit of a Twin Peaks vibe to it. The thing that the second episode may be think of and about the viability and maybe perhaps the legs of this show and with Apple as foundation and silo and many other shows and season five of from waiting for them in time. They will let you to finish the story. So the second episode though, I was like, is this ex files? Yeah, that what they do, like monster of the week, but we're never quite sure if it was real or not, because it is not as the first episode implies. Oh, it's not a zombie show. It's not like one thing is happening to this island. This island is fucking weird and weird stuff happens here, much like, you know, funny heartwarming stuff happens in Pawnee. Yeah. And that's engaging, but it's also viable for long term. If you have that kind of creative grip on what the thing is that you want to do. The thrill of the second episode actually came early on before the any of the scares come is I realized that much of my chagrin that the New York Times writer had left, because I love the character and the actor, yes. But it took away any kind of like false timeframe or yes, or anything where it was like, we have to solve all of this so that this guy, when he leaves the island, we'll write well about us. It's like, no, he's already left. We're, we're okay now, but we're not, you know, and it's, it's really cool. When the show is like, why don't we do like each episode has its own vibe rather than each episode is essentially people coming back and forth and talking to each other. And then there's like a false cliffhanger at the end. But we're only doing this over the course of three days or whatever. That's where I see the other two influences that I would throw in there. We talked about Parks and Rec a lot clearly, but Mike sure who is Katie Dippold's boss on Parks and Rec is the reigning champion of classic sitcoms that have a little bit of the wire-esque mutability and serialization enough to engage modern audiences, but enough of the old stuff, too, to keep you keep things a little bit lighter and make it, you know, so that these shows don't sink under the weight of their own plot or premise. The other show that I was going to throw out there is, do you remember the third day? Yeah, of course. Third day was a pandemic. Have you ever watched the live episode? The live episode. So this was a pandemic era HBO co-pro experiment, starring Jude Law, made by essentially experimental theater people and directors that at the midpoint of the season, there was a day-long theatrical happening that was live-streamed that in some way advanced the plot. Did we spend our day doing that? I mean, it was the pandemic. Like I read the Magic Mountain for sport. Like I probably did watch it, but it's pretty good. But not Dr. Faustis clearly, though, in terms of my, you know, I guess I just never really thought about his Faust, the guy, the guy who makes the deal or does what they call it the devil. No, gosh, a devil's like, Doctor, you know, I mean, please call me Faust. I believe that's the translation from German. You and our friends, let's talk. What do you want, Faust? The, anyway, it's, it's a tough watch, that show, but it was engaging. And I wonder, I want to ask if we get the chance hero and Katie if they overwatch that show because there is an element of things don't work the same here. And are you trapped here? I don't know. Are you? Yeah. The kind of like, it bringsmanship in terms of like how far is this thing really going to go that was very engaging on that show, too, because there was a mania to it and a creative, like, full creative commitment to the bit. The, you know, the, the font of the title card is, you know, make you think of Stephen King, but it's not explicitly Stephen King font. And I guess I would leave it there, which is that there are, are some things that like where their influences on their sleeve or in fact, lead with their influences in order to like kind of create a mood board for it. I'm sure that they did that here. But it was just different enough where I was like cool font. Look, the cool show, you know, like, the story of the agony of influence of in our contemporary era is, I think, a divide between the properties and projects that are just clearly attempts to recreate entertainment from the creators childhood. Sure. Versus ones that are like, I was raised in a circulating bath of Amblin and Spielberg and 80s, you know, Ghostbusters. And that informed who I am. And now I'm going to do this with it. And the more successful, it's my mind, the most successful things do that, you know, I'm actually curious. Like what I just described, which category do you think Stranger Things falls into? You watch the whole thing. Well, by the end of it, I'm not trying to take a shot. I'm curious. I think you'd probably be surprised, but still like bored by the fact that it turned into like James Cameron at the end. Like it's also 80s. Yeah. But it is essentially like closer to Terminator and Terminator to and almost like the never ending story and like, you know, sci-fi epic. There's a hole in the blender. Yeah. Whereas the first couple of seasons are very much rooted in like goonies and and that kind of thing. I think that's it for what it was pay for me. I mean, like I honestly don't have any critiques of it. I didn't I didn't really have like everything that like my brain would be like, oh, let me guess, you're not going to tell us like why this. I was like, no, this is like really working. And I think part of it is the runtime. The pace and the production is just so fun to be in that you're not really sweating the, the like the little things. So look at us. This is the predator handshake meme of comedy fan and hard fan. Well, I'm curious because you know, I think we were probably like mixed towards not happy about Margot's got money troubles. And I cannot say that I'm looking forward to the revival of Ted Lasso. There's a couple of sci-fi shows that Apple has like obviously for all mankind. And Silas coming back, I think they'll do the last, I think they're ending foundation. Now I don't even know if it's being promoted or not, or if I don't know, but this star city, which we talked about glowingly, at least it's trailer last week. And maximum pleasure guaranteed, which is coming soon with Tatiana, Ms. Lonnie, which looks pretty gritty and friend of the pod, Jake Johnson. Yeah. And looks like kind of a provocative, interesting modern thriller. I'm kind of curious what they're doing over there. I think what I was saying before is probably fodder for a larger conversation about the state of the streamers. Like Apple has so much money and its goals are so wide that you kind of can't make a declaration about what they are doing or not doing. They are essentially doing almost everything. And I think that I would love to get under the hood and try to understand what's working for them, what's working for audiences and where any disconnects may have been in the creative process. Because for whatever problems we had with Margot's got money troubles, we are in the minority. I think people just like casually like industry, not industry people are really enjoying it. And I think it's because it is, you know, like from the production design to the performances, like it's really, really well made. That strikes me as something that is meeting its goals, you know, what it was set out to do. And if the vibe of the story of the book didn't work for us, then that's that's not necessarily the adapters problem. level. I think that we've seen other examples of Apple shows where it feels like someone nodded off at the wheel on one side of it or another in terms of the notes they were or were not giving or in terms of just like the unfettered or whatever. Maybe just like how production worked out. Like we have stuff, stuff didn't, didn't come together. But not everything good. Like when you think, when we talk about like the, the, the famous development processes of like these, the two remaining titans of like really let's get in here and develop, which are HBO and FX, I mean they're grinders. They are incredibly demanding. I have seen the notes and the notes are brilliant and the notes are extreme and intricate and not everything turns into a diamond if you squeeze hard enough. Yeah. That doesn't work for everyone. Some, some creators and they don't do that for everyone. I don't mean to pretend that that's what they do, but it, it's too facile to be like Apple just shrugs and writes the checks and HBO's, you know, obsesses over every detail. Oddly speaking, that's kind of probably true, but there are, there are outliers on, on either side and, and there's also good quality from either side. I wish that Apple's stuff was a little more focused for the consumer, but it almost doesn't matter if they do. Whereas, like Peacock, for example, I think what's fascinating about Peacock's recent choices editorially is it's very hard to imagine a consumer, maybe I'm wrong. I'd love pushback on this, but like the average Peacock consumer who watches NBA, okay, so far we're in top chef, we're in the larger Bravo universe, not necessarily me, the burbs, the Copenhagen test, and miniature wife. Like that is, that's a very broad brush. Apple can get away with it. Apple can be like, do you like F1? Yes, do you like slow horses? Sure. Also, here's this, you know, quirky horror comedy. And then they sell, you know, a hundred thousand more MacBook Nios. Yeah. I, you know, there has been some speculation about whether or not Tim Cook's resignation or stepping down will lead to, I'm sure, stay to heaven. Where's he going? No, I think he's taking on like a, a larger title, but he's no longer the CEO David. Yeah. I mean, but the, whether the new CEO will be like, why do we have this? You know, now, I think probably you could make the argument that it's been a net positive for Apple to be so forward facing in culture by being a part of things like F1 and Ted Lasso and putting kills in the flower moon out or what have you, but I'm, I'm curious to see whether there's ever any like, hey, season five of that, really? Like, yeah, any curtailing of it, any changing, it's funny, though, it's because the one thing for all the criticism that people, fair criticism, I think people lobby at Netflix, Ted Sarandos is like, love of Hollywood or love of SNL or the things that he loves isn't questioned, but then they're like, is this good for hot? Like there's Tim Cook. This is not shot against Tim Cook, but it's just like, I saw a thing that was like the only time he's ever seemed really enthusiastic or happy is when he's cross paths with Lana Del Rey, which respects, but it's funny that like, you would think that someone who devoted so much capital to this sprawling entertainment wing of his company that continually does feel a little bit unmoored from strategy. It's amazing what you can do when you don't buy data centers. Yeah, there you go. You can make shrinking. There you go. Right, but you'd think that he would be a little bit like, how fun. I visited set and I do love this, you know, he doesn't seem to be that interesting in that, which is also fine, but the behavior of the company would suggest that he was like, in the same way like Jeff Bezos moved to Hollywood, you know, and he's just like, I like this. And then he moved to where there are no taxes? There's a world in which, you know, I mean, Apple obviously is one of the more, one of the richest companies in the world, one of the most valuable companies in the world. There you go, glazing them again. But if Steve Jobs, the movie, written by Aaron Sorken, tells me anything is like, sometimes there's competition internally for what's getting resources. And if they decide we haven't made something new, something really truly mind-blowing since Ted Lasso season two. Since Ted Lasso's. No, he's off more slum. No, like there's often like a concern-tural thing about Apple where it's like, where's the new iPhone? Where's the thing that's going to change culture entirely? Well, there's also nothing more to do with the phone. Like now there's four lenses on the camera. Yeah, exactly. But like, would you argue that like maybe there's too much money being spent on TV and movies that could be going towards product development or it could be going towards whatever else is core to their business? Not if the alternative is like an AI companion, you wear around your neck. Like, and then you can hang yourself with it. Like I don't, I think that that this is not, I don't, I don't read Bloomberg in financial times. This is not some big brain zag. But the things that I have heard just casually that they did, they went down the path of maybe we will make an Apple car, or maybe we'll make an Apple TV that's also the screen. And I think that this proved to be smart that they were like, let other people make those things. We will have our phones be the software by far. So in that world, whether it isn't that much more iteration to do in the hardware space, having a studio. Is it the worst thing? I don't know. But I think your question, maybe this is more of a Matt Bellini, the town type question is like the soft power of producing content. What does that mean to the online and how, how, how committed are they to it? Because if they, if they stopped, well, then yeah, you I mean, I know we're like the arc light hasn't reopened. Yeah. But like, if Apple stopped making TV, this whole thing that I saw, which it was admittedly a tweet and I did not then interrogate the truthfulness of it. Yeah. Was the announcement by that, like the keyota. Yes, keyota is going to like shut down. And this is if you're driving around Los Angeles, you see these trucks that say keyota on the side. And it usually means there's a shoot going on. And I still saw, you know, even in the dark days that we've been in, but them announcing that they're like, they're out on Hollywood. It was a weird announcement and a depressing one at a moment when, and it's not just the like, you know, happy headlines coming out of like the, you know, there's no writer strike that things are moving. There has been a slight drum beat of it's coming back. Like, there's more production happening. Netflix just bought the C the old CBS red for a lot. Yeah, there's another big sound stage going up on Santa Monica. So there was so that that was maybe more of like a who is that is that an outlier? Is that an indicator of the real economy? Well, let's take a quick break. We're going to come back and we're going to talk about top chef because restaurant wars happened this week. Okay, we're back. Let's talk about top chef. I want to talk to you more broadly about something rather than we're going to get into the details of this episode, which was restaurant wars. Do you like restaurant wars? I was like, like, this is this is the backbone of the show. This is what like, like, like the merge and survivor. This is what it kind of all builds up to and then the game changes afterwards. And it really usually I think functions as like a mile marker to be like, we're entering the home stretch here with these chefs. But I was curious whether or not you think restaurant wars is a barometer for who's good at top chef versus who's good at cooking. I think I'm of two minds of it. I think generally it is a very good benchmark midpoint of the season. Partly just because of the nature of it, we're 23 seasons in. I believe it's been a part of every season and the chefs are aware when they get to eight what they're going to be doing and they maybe have had some strategy and some thought and the history of the show comes to the fore in a way that's fun in that they're aware of the pitfalls of being front of house or whatever. I also think that it's one of the few times to your point where like we actually see what these contestants might be like in a real world professional setting as opposed to the heightened manic creative nonsense of the show. So I think that's really, really good. I also do think the front of the house stuff is incredibly revealing and incredibly important because as you and I talk about all the time offline when you're not texting me about hockey is like restaurants are mostly good or bad because of the service and the experience. Sure. And that is under looked by a lot of these and it's also basically divorced from the reality of top chef. So I like all that. The thing that bugs me is they can't stop fiddling with it. There have been seasons when they go shopping for decor like this season and there have been seasons when they don't. I think the ones where they don't are better where they explain their vision and then they have to you know make do with it but like I don't think these guys are necessarily good at shopping clearly in this case some of them weren't and beyond that if they're just giving 24 hours to throw some cloth up in an abandoned Carolina warehouse it's not really going to sell the deal anyway. So focus on the other stuff instead and I felt the same way about the this year iteration of takeout orders to yeah which is just like I understand you want to try something new and that's certainly as part of restaurant life post covid but it was just ultimately was distracting and it's a split mission like if you only have 24 hours and you have to have a dish that travels well like I think you're setting them up to a fail in a way that doesn't showcase their talents or reward the viewers of the show. So it's interesting you bring up this twist that happens restaurant orders which is essentially like trying to recreate the panic of the bear within an already tense situation with with restaurant with like starting and and serving at a restaurant over the course of one night two sittings with only like a day or two of prep. I was watching Survivor last night, Survivor 50. This is a spoiler for this last episode of Survivor 50. I hope you don't mind, but they have successfully introduced a bunch of like twits. Here, until now, never seen before twists. Last night, they get their customary letters from home, which is always a really emotional moment for the Survivor people. They've been out there for like three weeks and they get these letters from their loved ones and they all cry. When that happened, they also brought out Mr. Beast. - Okay. - Mr. Beast walked out with a briefcase that said beware and said he would be back at tribal council to like reveal what the beware, like chaos was gonna ensue. - And people know who this guy is. - Yeah, I mean, he's probably one of the most famous YouTubers in the world. I wonder if your older daughter knows who Mr. Beast is, okay. - But like in the same way that like, you know, when we were in the 80s, I was like, oh, that's Valerie Bertinelli, you know what I mean? Like I wasn't a fan. - He does things where it's like, I gave away $250,000. You just had to spend a night in Alcatraz for it. You know, like it's a little bit running man. It's a little bit. - Seems good. - He did the screen game, Mr. Beast games, you know. - Is he running for Mayor of LA? (laughing) Is that a better plan than Karen Bass's plan? I'm listening. - His twist basically like upended tribal and while I think tribal sort of ended in a very entertaining place, it's not, it's not pure survivor. It's not pure survivor gameplay. - Right. - And I thought that the takeout thing was an interesting wrinkle and ultimately did not, I think the right team won restaurant wars, which was Dwen's team. - Yes. - But it was kind of like, either commit fully. - Yes. - And fucking going to like, somebody has to work to go window. - No, what I would suggest, maybe this is coming and maybe they talked about it and this is actually a bad idea in practice. Do a ghost kitchen, challenge. Where you have to create a ghost kitchen that's gonna appear on the app. So you can get, look, they love getting branded, get the apps involved. And then they have to see like how many-- - I'm sure all these people have dreamed their whole life of getting to a ghost kitchen and making group kitchen teriyaki balls on top shelf. - It's a fair point. But if also if we're being like, what is the industry now? There you go. To see like New York Magazine covered the New York arrival of group kitchen, the way they once covered like the greatest friendships like Daning to set foot and the island men had. - I did not see the New York Magazine there. - Very cool. Yeah, it's a sign of the things, like we can't have it both ways. We've been praising the season for some feeling the editorial hand more from time to time, which is appropriate when you are on season 23 or in the case of Survivor double that. That didn't work for me because we had chefs and teams that were more than capable of doing this in ways that we're compelling on their own. Now they can't count on that. Like if these chefs had like totally shit the bed or like not been mismatched in ways that didn't work, then we may have been complaining about wishing there were more wrinkles to it because they were all bad at doing the one thing they had to do. But I felt a little bit disappointed with the extra distraction because ultimately what the takeout thing did was give them a chance in the edit to say, Dwen's team and her performance was clearly superior, but some people lacked cutlery. - Yeah. - Which was not as dramatic maybe. - Well, 'cause I think that the thing that I didn't understand was that these people are just gonna go outside of a restaurant. So that's why I guess the cutlery was important, but I was mostly like when they're like, do you need cutlery? I'm like taking it out and going home with it. So I'm fine, you know. The one other thing I made major note I had from this was that, you know, in this season began, I think my excitement and I'm still really into this season, but my excitement was largely around the separation from the pack of Rota, Anthony and Lawrence. And the ensuing competition that would come out of that because I was like, you know, sometimes you have a Buddha and it's just like wire to wire, everybody's gonna beat this guy. This was like, oh, and if there's like a big three and then there's like maybe a late breaker and you could have like a pretty tight like, it's anybody's ball game going into the finale. And now it's kind of been like that, but not as good as I thought it was gonna be because Lawrence and Anthony have kind of come back down to Earth and Rota has been in last chance, kitchen the entire season, seemingly. So I was curious whether or not you even had a feel for what these people are cooking right now. I thought, I mean, one of the things that can happen in a way that I really enjoy in Top Chef is that you could be thinking someone is mid for weeks and then like Oscar and then not only is he charming enough in front of house, he makes the best dish of restaurant wars and then everyone was like, well, that's exceptional. And you like to see it, you know, I like seeing people rise the occasion and prove why they're there and make it seem as if they could be competitors even though I don't really think that's the case. We should mention, we failed to mention since we talked about it a lot last week. Like Seager was back. - Yes, they did the thing that we thought they were gonna do which is Seager just didn't go to last chance kitchen because obviously they shot two days or three days of the show before they did an LCK. So they just had Seager like kind of on the wings. - Yeah, so it's a little bit of a bummer, but just in terms of like is, I don't know what fare is, but okay, he's back. - Yeah, I don't know if those guys were a competitive disadvantage from his where he was head was at and then making him executive chef was a choice. - That's true, I think, I could be wrong, but I don't know if I will be. I think that there are only three potential winners of the season unless something bizarre catastrophic happens. You got them, Rota is now back. Sorry for the last chance kitchen spoiler, but Anthony and Lawrence and Rota, they are the best chefs and seemingly the best competitors, although Rota clearly had a pretty spectacular slip up. I don't see the path for everyone else in terms of whether it's their abilities or their consistency, which is kind of a bummer. And even if it's been interesting the season, my daughters are all in, finally, took 23 seasons, but they love watching the show with me, which is quite meaningful for me. I love doing that, but they love Brandon. They like the twins, but they were super into Brandon. I think because he made ice cream for this is our challenge and he had to speak their language. But I don't even know if he was a contender because real contenders who know how to play this game don't do what he did, which was essentially make himself invisible and put his name on something lacking. Like that was just such a weird strategy fail in the one episode every year that they know they're going to be in. Remind me, Brandon was the one who came and helped his brother when his brother kind of, which they showed. He was an incredible, he was an incredible sous chef. He clearly is a very talented, very fast and backstopped everything. - Yeah, when Jonathan was like, oh, I haven't cut any herbs and services about service. - Yes, but then what did he make for his own dish was a gloopy rice pudding with four soda raisins on top. That's never going to win, and it was weird lack of focus. And I think that that focus is the thing because you could criticize people like Lawrence and Anthony for playing down slightly to the competition or playing it safe. - Well, I think having immunity in restaurant wars is also like kind of like, well, you can just go do exo. You can do executive chef and then-- - He also made a hideous, like insanely weird looking choice to make a dish that was like one thing and then he just poured something else on top of it. - He also put okra in it, which is like, you're just tempting faith. - Slime on slime. But, playing it safe in a field like this kind of makes sense. I thought, just going back to your first question, like, when was so good at front of house and made it seem easy, which is what good restaurants should feel like? I thought that was a really nice showcase for her and her ability. - Yeah, I thought she was quite good. I was worried with the edit that they were giving her when she was like, the thing about me is I am super organized. And I was like, this is either, you're calling your shot or this is gonna be like your montage of the episode. - Let me tell you something. It is really fun. I recommend this for you with your ward or whomever. Like to watch reality TV with young minds that have gone on. - Don't know about hero edits and stuff. - Exactly. So they think that I am some like, no stardom. I'm Bill James, like I'm pointing out the inefficiencies on the field in ways that they have never understood and they want to bring me into the front office. It would give me like, I'm a wizard when I'm like, that person is going to win or lose no question about it, you know? Or like, I'm predicting the winner wins. - That it's gonna be central is gonna be her, yeah. Okay, well, that was pretty much all I had for Top Chef. - Great. You have anything for after dark today? Anything? - Yeah, I'd love to address what an amazing sports week. This has been, first of all, I would probably be going up. By the time this goes up, I think the Sixers' World will be playing a game six in Philadelphia against the Zaltix. But I just want to talk to you about hockey. - It's me with a rake, I'm gonna watch this game and I know what's gonna happen. - I am not. I have to go to a dinner. I can't get out of it. And maybe I don't even want to get out of it. - Are you gonna be eyeing your phone? - I try not to do that. - That's good. But I wanted to know how you felt about the flyers over time, one nothing went over the penguins and the NHL Stanley Cup by-offs because you never commented on the 37 text messages that me and Zack sent last night. - First of all, I was knee deep in my rewatch of Widow's Bay. Don't regret it. I did respond to you with a share from four minutes, 14 seconds clip of the Young Lean video. So I was in my bag. I felt fine. I don't-- - Do you watch the highlight? - No, because I don't want to experience FOMO. - Okay. - I think I've made a decision. I'm gonna stick with it. I did feel like Zach was putting on a little bit thick with his tech saying, oh my God, I can't believe hockey is like this. I've never felt so alive. Like I felt like Gary Bettman was like paying him a little bit, some spare loonies. - Jesus loons you. Just to be like, maybe he's texting that to a lot of people. - Oh yeah. - He works for a culture magazine. Maybe he's setting the tone. - I thought it was great. It was, and it's just been an electric week when it comes to athletics. - So the, I mean, it's like soccer in the sense that this sudden death feeling of like, oh my God, anything can happen in this moment. When the improbable happened and the flyers won, what sort of, how would you characterize the noise that came from your body and how did you behave? Was it? - Yeah. - Let's fucking go. - You went low? - The truth is, these moments reveal. And I tend to go, real high in those moments. I don't think I do well. Like when good things happen in sports and the true spirit comes out. - That was a heck of a slap show. - Whoa. (laughing) - Touchdown, fellas. Yeah, like I, but you, you went. - Do you guys want to get some light beer? - Gosh. 2.5% is my limit. Yeah, it's not awesome. It's not awesome. I'm impressed that, you know. - Is there anything for me for after dark? - Character is revealed in those moments. No, no, I'm not prepared. - Okay. - You got me watching Resident Evil Trailers, you know? Like I'm just, I'm kind of on your street today. I'll see what I can do. - We're going to be back on Monday. We're going to be talking about, euphoria, we're going to be talking about culture. - Yeah, I think probably culture. - Here's a question for you. - Yeah. - Big movie this weekend coming out. Devil Wars brought it to you. - I've seen Devil Wars brought a one. I can't say that. - First of all, it's the most rewatchable movie of the century before I understand. - According to the book. - I like that movie. - Good movie. - I like Emily Blinn in that movie. I wasn't like, this story needs to go on. But why not? You know, I'll eventually see it. It's not a first weekend or for me. I had to go see Hokem this weekend without him Scott. - Oh, that isn't like. - Horror movie set in an Irish hotel. - A lot of things that interest you. This is a big movie in my household. This is a-- - Devil Wars brought it to you. - Yes, my children are very, very, very-- - Have they seen the first one? - No, they just love fashion. - Yes. - Yeah, that's a, like if I'm not trying to tell, I'm not trying to tell Holly what to do. But like, if you want to really engage with specifically, my children, 11 things I hate about you would be a billion dollar box office hit judging by the continued enthusiasm. - If they just, if they just like remade it, or do you think like they, if they revisited some of it? - No, I don't know. I just mean like the, maybe this is a conversation for the big picture or something, because like the passion, the selective passion that my daughters have for the few movies that they like is so intense. And not really, because they have those options, they, I think it has limited their interest in checking for new things, you know? Like why go see that one we could just-- - To why go see the Christopher's? Well, you can just watch Devil Wars, Prada 1. - Again, yeah. - Or Clueless, again. But this is a, but there's a, you know, big 12 months of Tom Holland content coming, so that's gonna do numbers. - Like the Odyssey? - Well, my older daughter loves three things in this world, Greek mythology, Tom Holland and Zendaya. So yeah, we're gonna be there. And now do you think, this is for afterno, maybe this is for the future for the summer. Maybe we should have an episode where Uncle Chris makes his, Uncle Chris explains Christopher Nolan to a 13-year-old. - Your mind is the scene of the crisis. - She'll be coming in cold. - Yeah. - To his particular aesthetic vision. - Should I do it as Bane? - Yeah. - I'll give it some thought. - Thank you. - Thanks to Kai and Kai for producing today, and we will be back on Monday. Everybody have a great weekend. (upbeat music)