Why You Should Slow Down and Market Intentionally to Make an Impact (with Ann Handley)

Dasha, remember when McKeal from Optimizely won our exit five live AI agent showcase the 2000 custom landing pages. That was really impressive So he's their director of AI innovation and he built them with Optimizely's agent platform won for every account in an abm campaign He built them from signals like job postings, press releases and leadership changes. That's like the holy grail of abm That's why today's sponsor Optimizely is where I'd point anyone who wants to know what AI agents can do for marketing Their agent platform is built specifically for B2B marketers build your own agents or pull from a directory of 50+ prebuilt ones They also launch virtual teammates. These are digital team members that learn over time can join meetings complete tasks support campaigns and keep your website Optimize. Why do I need to go to work? Let me get those. Okay, I need one of those Same being asked to look into AI agents, which I know a lot of you listeners are right now go check out Optimizely Put them at the top of your list and you can go build cool stuff just like McKeal did check him out at optimizely.com/exit5 Hey quick shout out to web flow who is also sponsoring today's episode their team actually ran one of the highest rated workshops at Drive this year Which is our big annual conference people raved about that one guy their chief evangelist really knows AEO And you shared a ton of advice on turning your website into an ongoing revenue driver And that matters a lot right now right AI is cutting into organic traffic. I don't go to Google and search anymore I'm talking to my AI agents all day long So AI is cutting into organic traffic and buyers just like you and me are using AI to make purchase decisions about 95% of the time Web flow they're a great team to follow on this more than 300,000 brands can you believe that build on their platform It helps you get discovered in AI search build fully custom sites without a developer Gov on your content and see how agents read it all in one place and they just launched web flow campaigns Agents help you write a campaign brief from your brand system then generate on brand landing pages and matching ads together Check it out at webflow.com/exit-5 and make your website your biggest growth engine in 2027 That's webflow.com/exit-5 You're listening to the Dave Gerrard show Really excited about our next guest She's one of the most respected voices in marketing a Wall Street Journal best-selling author and the world's first chief content officer She's a partner in marketing profs entrepreneur and the author of everybody writes a best-selling guide to creating marketing and business Communications people want to pay attention to IBM named her one of seven people shaping the future of marketing She's built two multi-million dollar companies inspires more than a million followers across social And writes a popular news that are read by over 50,000 subscribers Just found out she is a staunch advocate of the m-dash Right Hey, this is these are your people she lives in Boston loves dogs collects vintage type writers And is the author of a forthcoming fourth book out in 2027 that I'm sure after seeing her speak you will be Rushing to go get please bring the energy up give me a warm welcome for Anne Handley Have fun Hi How you doing Who is the vendor who has this m-forever i don't know who that was but we got a talk I am so delighted to be here at this event And it occurs to me that for the past few days we've been talking about you know, what is this event actually about It's about driving business forward. It's about sales. It's about marketing. It's about figuring out how to make an impact But I'm gonna start today with A simpler question I guess which is what is marketing for Now a lot of people here a lot of us believe That marketing is all about driving growth right about driving leads and mqls and all the things that can contribute to a Business moving forward and growing and all of that stuff that we love But that's not what good marketing actually does Good marketing is actually how ideas travel. It's how people decide What to believe in and who to believe and most importantly who to trust That's actually what good marketing is and it's joyful work. It is important to work But lately it's felt overshadowed by a kind of tension And instead of feeling like joyful work It's almost felt like a battle It's felt in fact like an epic battle that seeps into everything that we do It's a battle of craft Against efficiency. It's a battle of speed about taking our time Now I know you know what battle I'm referring to Right That's right. I'm referring To the epic battle at the heart of episode eight of mighty mouse the new adventures which premiered 39 years ago In the fall of 1987 Now I know most of you here are familiar with episode eight Of mighty mouse the new adventures which premiered 39 years ago in 1987 just like a quick show of hands Is there anyone here who is not Who is not familiar with episode eight of mighty mouse of Okay, so it looks like two or three of you Todd So let me give you a quick refresh on the story mighty mouse and his staff They call themselves the League of superrooms. They're sitting around in their secret layer They appear to be in front of a statue And I remember that statue for later mighty mouse is complaining to all of his colleagues of the League of superrooms about how terrible business has been lately There hasn't been a single J walker. They haven't been able to respond to anything We all have special and unique talents. He says We all have artistic capabilities if only we had an opportunity to use them If only we can use them in a productive way. He says if only if only Simply powered criminal genius would hurl a challenge at us Is the cow Use nibbling superweasels and don't even try to run don't even try to run the cow is a super villain I didn't write this What's more the cow is a male cow Which is wonderfully inclusive for 1987 isn't it because he's got the otters Because he's a male cow you know who don't normally have You know how you're not supposed to explain a joke But I felt like it just didn't really land. So I explained the joke the cow then dares the entire League of superrooms to fight him one By one mighty mouse sits this one out because he is the worst kind of CMO, I mean He's the worst kind of boss superrooms fly into battle first comes the gas gofer. He has little gas bags Next is the scamper hamster. Guess what his superpower is scampering That's like endorsing a marketer on LinkedIn for like slack skills Just ridiculous No one can defeat him but wait remember what I told you this statue appears to still be very much in the scene This is when we realize that the statue is actually the check-offs gun of this entire episode After Russian playwright Anton check-off who said that if you show a gun in one scene You have to be sure to fire it in the next so remember the statue and remember check-offs gun now too The cow puts all of the superrooms in the hospital looks what's still there though and remember what I told you Because pretty soon look what's getting closer look at the smug look on that cow's face and closer It's not a statue in fact. It's alive. It's in a live slough And it's not just any slough. It's a superhero slough and as the cow is prancing around There it goes. That's the gun Straight to jail So who is the slough rampaging sloth He seems to be super slow motion slam may take a while but when it gets thin the shore packs out well it's sure to pack so what up Pretend that you are a child in 1987 and you're on the floor of your families family room and you're watching this show on TV On the one hand we have the supervillain cow Right he's fast. He's efficient. He dispenses with like everybody at lightning speed. Any job in front of him, whether it's somebody scampering around him or whether it's a gasco for he's got it. On the other side, we have the league of superrooms. These are the earnest and the specialized artists that are fighting the supervillain, but more than that, they are fighting for the soul of their layer themselves. They are fighting for the soul of the city. And then we have the superhero sloth, a rampaging slot who comes in and just by taking his time, slowly and carefully winds up impacts a, let's try that again. (audience laughing) Okay, slowly and carefully winds up impacts a, yes, so good. Now, even a child without media training in 1987 can see the obvious moral of the story, right? The story is that the cow is bad. Sloth is good. And as humans, we agree. The cow is a jerk, he's a bully. But in marketing, we've kind of flipped the script. In marketing, we celebrate cow mode, the efficiency, the power, the speed at which we can, wait for this 'cause I'm really proud of it, milk ROI. (audience laughing) This is a fake LinkedIn profile. I don't know if you guys can tell. I thought this was really funny when I made it. (audience laughing) Thank you. I'm so desperate for so much big knowledge that I'm funny that was. All right, milking a hurly. Meanwhile, we actively avoid sloth mode, right? We avoid all of these slower approaches that over time might pack a wallet. And we avoid them not because we don't want to move slowly, but because in marketing, a slower approach very much sounds like we are falling behind. And so the sloth rarely gets a chance to wall up. He never gets a chance to use that slow motion slam. So what is that though? Like why is an industry that is built on creativity and connection, why do we operate at cow mode all the time? So I've been thinking about this. And I think there are a number of reasons I wanna talk about four of them now just quickly. First is that marketing is unusually visible, right? Everything that we do shows up on a dashboard. We work in very short cycles. We have weekly reporting, daily metrics, we refresh, refresh, we're looking for opportunities all the time to show that we're connecting with the people we seek to connect with. We also sit very, very close to revenue pressure. And when pipeline dips, we're gonna hear about it. And what's more, digital tools have trained us to optimize for volume, how big a program is getting not necessarily for value. And I know Dave mentioned this to you already, but we gotta just talk about this for a second. Because this is not an AI tell, okay? And I know because there are four of them in this slide. And I wrote this slide. It's not an AI tell. This keeps us locked in what I call a performance paradox, right? Which is says that what's easiest to measure often matters least while what truly matters is harder to see. We chase what we can chart. And it makes sense because we wanna show the value. But it keeps us locked in cow mode. And I know this seems like a joke, but this is actually my marketing manager walking into the office last week. And I'm like, that seems right. In a fast culture, speed very much reads as competence, right? Even when it's not progress, even when it's not pushing us in the direction that we wanna move in. And now on top of it, we have added AI. We've added all of it, right? Which has poured gasoline on this sort of cow energy that has already existed in marketing. The thing is, I think it's time for us to stop the madness. We need to invite the sloth into our marketing directly because the sloth is not going to show up on its own. Marketing already has plenty of cow energy. I think we need to invite the sloth in when we need the slow rampage because we need to recognize how the sloth can actually benefit our programs. But more than that, how it can help us differentiate each of us ourselves as well as what we're selling and as well as how we're selling it. Oh, so I forgot about him. (audience laughing) The truth is that it doesn't have to be a battle. The truth is that it doesn't have to be cow versus sloth. I think the two can very much work together. I think that the future of marketing is knowing when to cow, when to move fast, when to just go as quickly as you can and get things done and when to not do that, right? When to sloth, okay, you with me? All right, good. I also would say that I think because AI has tossed that rocket fuel onto the cow, it's actually requiring us to sloth. I actually think we don't really have a choice because as we've seen in marketing, when you just layer AI on top of everything, when you just layer that loose cow energy on top of anything, it just, it doesn't work out so well. And there are two reasons why. I think we need to think about inviting the sloth in. First, and you all know this more than almost anybody else. AI has totally changed the job. The old job was to create reach and familiarity and be visible because visible as we could. The goal was very much to be seen, to let people know about us, to build that top of funnel. But now the job has shifted and the job is harder, I think. It's not just about being seen, now it's about being chosen. We need to be understood. People need to understand what our programs are all about, which means that they need to trust us. They need to see us, but they also need to know that they can trust when we say that we are who we are. And ultimately, we need to also be unforgettable, which is a really hard job. But it's about being chosen. I think that the new job is to think about, before choice is on the table for any of our customers, for any of our prospects, do they trust us? Do they remember us and do they love what we're all about? So the second reason why I think we need to rethink cow energy and invite the sloth in is because loose cow energy is literally everywhere. If you've been on LinkedIn, you see it. It's everywhere. And it's actually not even just in marketing, it's in everything that we do. Like for example, this news article, at the very end of it, oh my, I know, the gasp. (audience laughs) The gasp, so real. By the way, you see that M-? This is why we have trouble. Guess who wrote it, just take a guess. This guy, trying to be a real cute. Brand new research from our friend Andy Crestedina, actually so new, it just came out today. I saw that he announced it. It points to a sort of disturbing trend of loose cows in marketing. What Andy did and what you're looking at here is part of a bigger study that he did on the effectiveness of marketing and, sorry, content in marketing in 2026. But what you're looking at here is a chart that shows how nine different content practices that he's been tracking over the past 13 years correlate with results. And that sort of gaping maw in the middle is telling you the story. What's down by 30% over all of that time is all the things that ultimately gives us more success in our marketing program. So things like craft, paying attention to writing, paying attention to how we're telling stories, research and editing and analysis and collaboration that we do either with outside influencers or internal influencers or with other brands. All of this stuff is sort of disappearing and results are sinking. Now AI did not create loose cow energy. In fact, it's sort of always been part of marketing. We've always loved the sort of shortcut. We're always looking for the ability to do things faster and quicker. And I asked my designer for help with this. I said, I want to make it really clear. So in all caps, can you say that AI didn't create loose cow energy? And she said, absolutely. I honestly thought that would be a bigger laugh line. So there we go. It's in all caps. So it didn't create it. But I think it did scale it. The truth is that we in marketing have always had a bit of a crush on shortcuts, anything that promises more and faster and easier where they come to mama, like we want that. For example, let's look at Justin, who emailed me with his subject line. The only Dave in marketing, apparently, Dave LinkedIn is the subject line, Dave LinkedIn post. And he says, hey, your interest in Dave Gerhard's post tells me, OK? Is he the one Dave in marketing? And then-- oh, there he is. I guess he is, the one Dave in marketing. Vinnie, follow us. Pull it up just in a few days later. Hey Anne, just bringing this back up in case it got buried and then a few days after that. Anne, did I lose you? We've all been through these sort of, you know, this cold email outreach. But the thing like in this case, I just feel like, did I lose you? And no, you never had me. 'Cause you know who does? Yeah. (audience laughs) Like, let me have my little crush on Dave in private and don't make it into like some sort of demand-gen trigger. You know what I mean? (audience laughs) It's just that a month later it's like we never met. You know? Dave, my favorite part of that, this email though Dave, is his content is great. I love it. So good. So yeah, we've always had a crush on these sort of efficiencies in marketing. But of course, efficiency isn't the supervillain, right? We all have used these sort of outreach. I'm not saying that that by itself is terrible. I'm saying the actual villain is when we have speed but without judgment. When we over rely on automation and personalization and frequency and efficiency, that's when we get into trouble. We have spent years in marketing asking, how can we make more faster? But now, I think the conversation has shifted. I think the better question today and the critical question today is what deserves more of us? What deserves more of that rampaging sloth? What needs less cow energy? Oh, I forgot. What's up? The thing is, reach and frequency and speed, like we've always been about how do we move somebody from attention to action as soon as possible? And that's a perfectly fine way to operate, or it was, until the environment that we find ourselves in now. Because now, if the job is shifted, if the job is no longer just about attention, but it's about trust and memory and making people love us just a little bit, those are the moments that deserve more of us. Then I think the idea has shifted. I think we need a new kind of ASAP, from as soon as possible to as slow as possible, when the stakes call for it, when it matters most, when the stakes are high enough. I think the trick, of course, is knowing when to cow and when to sloth. When do we move fast? When is fast the better way? And when do we not? When do we not? We have a choice. When do we want to slow down? And give it more of ourselves. So let's map this out together. I've created what I call the ASAP matrix that as slow as possible matrix. And this is what helps us decide, when do we slow down and when do we speed up? So on one app access, we're measuring impact. The impact over time. How lasting is the effect of a program? How lasting is the effect of something that we want to learn? - Quick break for Zoom webinars. This is the platform behind the world famous exit five live. Someone on LinkedIn just said, I compare all other webinars against exit five live. Now, how good is that? - So good. I want to print that out, send it to my mom, put it on my fridge. In a world of AI slot, we just want to make something that's worth showing up for even a webinar. - Especially a webinar, but don't you dare call the webinar even though I break my own rule and do that all the time. It's a live session. Our team puts over seven hours a week into each one of these choosing the topic, the prep calls, building the run a show, and making it valuable and engaging. - Zoom webinars is a big part of how we pull it off. We average 1,500 plus registrants for session, hundreds of people show up live and the chat goes off. - Yeah, the last time we have a new high water market, 527 people live for an hour with us, Zoom does registration, emails, polls, analytics, and all lives in one place. So running a polished session every two weeks isn't a scramble. At Showtime, our team swears by Zoom's production studio. They preset every scene and push each one live on cue. Clean transition, zero chaos. At least that anyone can see. Just please do not look at our internal slack. - Okay, all the caps lock in there. Don't share that. That's our pro-level webinar production powered by Zoom. Check it out zoom.com/exit5. Learn more about Zoom and all the webinars and all their products there and come see it live. We do these basically every week now. Go and check them out. It's called exit5 live and learn more about Zoom at Zoom.com/exit5. All right, if you're at a B2B tech company spending over $50,000 a month on paid media, compound growth marketing wants to give you two free sessions to build out your 2027 plan. - Free? Okay, I'm listening. What do you get? - I know free is usually too good to be true, but check this out. In the first session, they're going to learn your business. And in the second, they will deliver you a custom plan. - So you'd know how to split demand capture and creation, which channels drive the best ROI and where your reporting has gaps. - And look, I trust them with it. I've hired CGM twice. They're one of the best agencies I've worked with back in my day as a head of marketing. - Twice. Well, I've hired plenty of agencies as a VP of marketing and that is rare. - I'm more than just a thought later, Dash. You should know that. So CGM helps high growth, cybersecurity and enterprise software companies show up earlier in the buying journey with full funnel, paid media, AEO, and a dedicated GTM engineering team. - Ooh, and a former VP of marketing started it. So they actually get B2B. - That's right, John was one of us back in the day. So check it out. You can go book your 2027 planning session right now at compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exit5. - That's compoundgrowthmarketing.com/exit5. Link in the show notes. - Does this matter beyond this moment? Does it have lasting impact? On the other axis, we have the growth potential. How much growth is there in this? For the business, for the programs, but also for us. And when you put these two things together, these two axes together, you get four quadrants, four very different ways of throwing up, just showing up in the world, or throwing up. Like, I guess there is fine. So down here, bottom left, when the impact is fleeting and when the growth potential is low. This is the autopilot mode, right? This is low growth fleeting impact. It's the everyday stuff you do, the boxes to check, the things you can move through quickly, get some assistance, whatever you need to do. Traveling now to the top left, this is what I call the flash zone, right? This is sort of the dopamine quadrant. This is the area where you hit publish and maybe you get a flurry of responses. Maybe you get a spike of intention or a spike of enthusiasm about what you're doing, but the impact is fleeting. It's growth but with shallow roots. It's kind of like a sugar high. So sugar is fine, like it's fine every once in a while, but this is where a lot of our marketing lives right now. It's the short-term view instead of taking a longer-term view. It's fine for energy, but terrible for endurance. And then bottom right here, we have impact, right? The imperfect leap, the decision that we make with the best information that we can at the moment. It may not catapult you forward, but it sustains you. It's a little bit of a gamble because you don't know exactly what's gonna happen. You don't know that it's gonna work, but might fizzle, might not, but it's an area where I think we take something away from it, right? It can teach us something. And then finally, upper right, it's high growth and lasting impact. This is where the rampaging sloth thrives. That's where slowing down can actually create the advantage for us, for our businesses, and for our skills internally as well. The ASAP Matrix helps you decide. It asks you to consider these questions. When do we slow down? And when does something deserve more of each of us? It invites us to be asking these two questions. Does this grow who we are or just what we ship? Does this matter to us long-term? And does this build something lasting? Like trust or memorability? Are people gonna remember who we are? I think it'll love us a little bit or does it just buy a moment? Two very practical questions that can change the way you think about your marketing. Now, I have a lot to say about this. So I'm just gonna ask the clock to reset for, I don't know, like four hours. You good? Dave, that's good. Yeah, whatever I want, he says great. I haven't technically announced this book yet, but a lot of people know about it. So I say a kind of secret new book. Doesn't have a cover, source of anxiety for me at this moment, but it's coming in February, 2027. So for now, I want to share with you two ways where I think we can bring a little sloth energy into a very fast B2B marketing world, right? The first is tactical. Number one is to make meaning measurable. We need a way to identify the sloths wallop before the sale actually shows up. I was really worried about having to say sloths wallop, it's a lot harder than it seems. Okay? Before the sale shows up. One reason why I think we default to speed in B2B marketing is because it's incredibly easy to measure, right? It's an easy thing to measure. Output is easy to count, but the value created by the slower work of a wallop is trickier to measure. So I've been thinking a lot about that. this. And I developed what I call the Wallup Tracker. It helps us recognize when or where we are building trust and where we are creating residents and lasting value for our customers and for our prospects. You know, and I could have called it something else, but I kind of like Wallup Tracker, you know, it's just like a fun name. No? All right. All right. So the Wallup Tracker has three components, right? Three actual values, three ways that we can capture signals. And the first is stay. Did they choose to spend time with you? Second is act. Did they take a next step? And third is echo. Did it stay with them? So let me just walk you through this really quickly. Stay is not, you know, did they click? Did they download? It's actually, did they spend time with you? You can see it show up in things like this, like in read time or return visits to your asset, to your website, watch time on something. The scroll depth, say on a website or an email, email newsletter or any kind of email. Secondly is act. Did they take the next step? Did they do something? Again, not did they purchase yet, but did they actually do something? Did they share it? Did they comment on it? Did they reply to you? Did they go looking for you afterward in the situation like this? Was there any sort of interaction? And my favorite, by the way, for email is what I call over or the open to write back rate, which some email programs were less creatively called reply rate, but I'm like over because it's like, it is what it is. It says what it is. My other favorite one is a re-subscribe rate. Does somebody reach out to you and tell you that they change the jobs or they have a new place that they want to get your email or email newsletter? And they're re-subscribing with that email. Now, how do you know this? Because you've built a relationship with them based on the reply rate. I tracked this obsessively with my own email newsletter. I tracked the Uber and I tracked the re-subscribe rate. What are people telling me? Are they carrying me with them? So are they acting in a way that's ultimately going to benefit me? And the third is echo. Were they moved in some way? Can you tell that there's some evidence of an emotional shift about how people feel about you? Not just what they're clicking on and how they're acting, but do they actually feel differently about you? And can you find it in places like this, like in comments or email replies to your email news that are your regular newsletter through social media conversations, for example, or direct messages or any of these things? I look for words like this, like I feel seen. I feel like you understand me 100%. I feel clear or reassured or inspired or surprised or connected. All of these signals, to me, mean that I'm forming an emotional connection with somebody, finding those moments that really echo with the person you seek to connect with. So not just did someone convert what's the conversion rate, but also do they trust us? Do they remember us? Do they choose us? And what do you do with this? You can use the wallet tracker to make better bets. So for example, keep what compounds. If something actually feels like it's starting to resonate, you can keep that compounded, work on it over time, improve what gets attention, but isn't quite building that echo just yet. You can ditch what keeps you busy, but is ultimately forgettable, or you can invest where customers show you that the work matters. So I think a bit with these four, but it helps me figure out all of these things. The second thing that the slow rampage can do, the second way to rampage responsibly, is to consider that measurement alone isn't actually enough, because the thing is the sloth is not motionless. Even though it seemed like he was motionless, he actually was winding up. The power of that slow motion slam ultimately is in the wind up. It's in the moment that happens before any kind of impact. The wind up in marketing right now is where judgment gets built, right? It's where we have patience. We notice patterns. We look at where we're building resonance with our audience and relationships, and we're resisting that urge to scale something just because it got a little spike. It's asking you to look a little deeper. So let's put these two things together. The wall up and the wind up in action. And I want to end today with just a story. It's not a story about a brand that is very obvious, and it does not have a massive budget. It's not a Super Bowl ad, but I think it's a very special look at how you can see this sort of slow motion slam in action. So here's the story. This is the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District. These, yeah, are you from the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District? I would literally die if you were. Or just Northeast Ohio? Oh, Ohio. These guys, the kings of Twitter, when it was Twitter, so good. For example, fondly remember, all the hours you scrolled Twitter in the bathroom servers were there for you first. We'll be there for you last. This is the day Elon Musk took over Twitter. There's just a poignant moment of just unity. Or this one. It's poetry, really. In the warm sun at the Easterly wastewater plant in Northeast Ohio, a brick-faced tower casts a long shadow over the asphalt. Trucks come and they go. They're hauling landfall, chock-full of remnants of things we flush away. Just think the seed. The seed? That grew this tomato plant. Must have been yours. Like so gross, but so so rich, you know? No, this seems so random. But there's actually a content strategy and a marketing strategy behind the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District on Twitter. There are three goals that they have with all of their marketing on Twitter and more broadly as well. Number one is a better understanding of municipal infrastructure. A thing that we never think about until we do, right? Until something goes wrong, until something is awful. And then you're aware of municipal infrastructure. So number one is a better understanding. Secondly, is visibility for people who work there. They're celebrating the people who are working at the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District. This matters mostly because of recruitment. They want to show how people are valued there. And the third point here is because flushable wipes are not flushable. If you take nothing else from this presentation today, just remember this. It's in the name. It is a lie. It is a lie, people. They have the data to show you. Now, these guys, as I said, are just the kings of Twitter and they are far outperforming any other regional. Look at that. That's the regional sewer district on this far left here. San Antonio and Philly and Houston. They're just like nothing compared to these guys. They have more Twitter followers or ex followers per customer than almost any other utility in the country. It's years of showing up consistently, slowly building that relationship with their audience and in a fun way that relies on craft with that always ladders up to the broader strategy that they have. And this isn't just on Twitter. This is not just on social. This is not just a social story. In fact, they're also really great at breaking news. For example, you know, I'm a swifty. And so are they. Because look, like Taylor and Travis just bought this huge house. Yeah, I mean, look at, hey, look, new customers. Just imagine. So that's breaking news for some of us. That's big. Or for example, this is their newsletter. They have a sub-stack that I subscribe to. I should mention, by the way, that I live in Boston. I do not live in Ohio. I don't care about municipal infrastructure all that much. But these guys, I'm like, whatever they do, I subscribe. This is their newsletter. And just look at the writing. They're on a tour of the pipes underneath the city. Vince Fattrano narrated our journey like a Netflix documentary. It says, and so visceral. It's like, what sludge is incinerated and energy generated. Every step has a sound like a as our boots tread upon like, come on. That is just such beautiful writing. You can hear it. You read it, but you can also hear it. It's just, it's so great. I'm like, right there with Vince, just who's wearing that plaid shirt. I'm just like, all in it with him. So I was a massive, massive fan of the Northeast Ohio regional sewer district, just basically based on their content. And when I saw this, I thought this has to be like a big agency, right? This has to be somebody who really knows what they're doing. It's got to be this big, expensive agency that somehow they had the budget for. No, it turns out it's one guy named John Gonzalez. He is, and he's not even like the head of marketing. He's like a manager there. He's the human face for all of this. Ash is a funny story, but I was in Ohio at an event at a concert. and I was on the show floor and I saw John Gonzalez, who would only know him through his LinkedIn picture. I saw him across the hallway and I said to my colleague, I was like, "Oh my God, there's John Gonzalez." (audience laughing) And she goes, "Who?" And I was like, "That's John Gonzalez." I was like, "I gotta go say hi to him." And she's like, "Okay, so we go over to John Gonzalez." I'm like, "John, oh my God, I'm so delighted to meet you." And she's like, "Hi." And he like, he's standing here. He takes a giant step back. (audience laughing) He's like, "Oh, and then he reaches in his tote bag." And I think he's gonna like pull out a taser, you know? He's like, "Get this crazy person away from me." And he pulls out a sheet of stickers that had from the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District and it said, "The stickers on top of it said, "Thank you for being an influence sewer." (audience laughing) I mean, I don't know what we're doing in marketing. (audience laughing) Next to this guy, damn. When I talked to him though, I realized something that is so important. It's just like he was so, he's unassuming because Ohio, right? (audience laughing) But also like, he was very humble and just laid back. And like, he just was not that interested in celebrating all that he'd done. And it occurred to me just how much he pushed himself. Like, pushed himself completely out of his comfort zone to be the face of this infrastructure, of this municipal infrastructure company. Like, for example, here's what he did on TikTok. ♪ Then once was a man who had to go ♪ ♪ The name of the man was Billy Stereo ♪ ♪ The man stood up and grabbed some wipes ♪ ♪ Oh, no, my Billy boy, no ♪ ♪ Soon made the sewer man comes ♪ ♪ Don't clog our pipes, so our flows may run ♪ ♪ One day when the clogger is done ♪ ♪ We'll take our leave and go ♪ ♪ A fortnight since his infusurable deed ♪ ♪ Billy boy decided when he went to feed ♪ ♪ Washed his kitchen grease down the drain ♪ ♪ Oh, no, my Billy boy, no ♪ ♪ Soon made the sewer man comes ♪ ♪ Won't clog our pipes, so our flows may run ♪ ♪ One day when the clogger is done ♪ ♪ We'll take our leave and go ♪ It's so good. It's like, right? I don't know if you noticed this either, but my favorite part of this lyrics by intern Kevin. (audience laughs) Like, yeah, I don't know who Kevin is, that's Kevin. I don't know who that guy, this is like some influencer on TikTok and he just does, anyway, it's intern Kevin. I hope he's doing well. So I was already like super impressed with John Gonzalez. Then I noticed that right before the holidays, he put out this message on social across every one of their social channels. In fact, I have something to say with a phone number. Now, I don't know if any of you, like sometimes you see like on packaging that like it'll be like a pasta or a salad brand and there'll be a phone number. You know, do you ever see that? Like tell us how we're doing. Do you ever call it? I do. (audience laughs) And half the time, you really get like a recorded message or like one time, I called and I got a fax machine. Like, in 2026, come on. But this is Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District. This is John Gonzalez. He would never do that to us. So here's what happens. You call that phone number and you get a two minute recording. It's John Gonzalez's voice. Now remember, this is right before the holidays, okay? And here's what the recording says in part. I'm not gonna play the whole thing, but just in part. - Maybe you're struggling with something that no one else knows about. Maybe you're just trying to make ends meet between paydays. Maybe you're gonna lost something or someone close to you and you don't really know what a holiday season will look like without them. Holidays, and I think end of the year, holidays in particular are really a victim of motion and we're exposed to good and bad that come from anywhere and know they can just feel overwhelming at times. So let me tell you right now that you're not alone. As utilities show, we connect people and yes, your sewer belt does pay for one kind of connection. But I think the connection should be made on social media proof something. And I would say that they prove that there's a human side of infrastructure, that holiday joy or sadness you're experiencing or that uncertainty or anxiety, it's not experienced or isolation. There is a very real, very hidden, but an honest human condition that connects all of us. And I'm grateful for that. - Two minute message. And then at the end of the message, he invites you to leave a message for either him or somebody on his team. And anybody at the Northeast of Harajal is a redistrict. So let's listen to a few of the messages he got. - Who would ever think that a sewer district would bring so much joy, laughter and emotion? Really? Thank you so much for all you do, everybody there. - So one more. - Wow, that's left you all. And so it brings, you're with my 98 year old mother. That's a number of a billion here. - That's nothing. - That's nothing to me. - You are doing just such a dreaming thing. That's left you all. - You guys are diabolical. So laughing at that. - Snyder, you old mother. - She's sobbing, right? - So I called up John and I said, you got a lot of calls, huh? And he said, yeah. And I said, how many? He said 32 hundred calls. They left all collectively. That's four hours of voicemail. And John Gonzalez is just like such an angel of a man. I said, did you listen to all of them? And he said, of course I did. And I said, what were you doing while you're listening to them? I'm just looking for a little color, John. You know, give me anything. And he goes, I was at my desk. (audience laughing) What do you do with that, John? Just like tell me a story about it, you know? Anything? Nothing. These calls came from all over the world, like not just Ohio, like you heard Boston, which is not me, by the way. Someone thought that one, so it wasn't me. It was from Boston, from all over the US, but also like from Canada, from New Zealand, from Australia, like all over the place. But I think this one is my favorite. It's the last one. - Good, I think that I would be getting some great therapies from a store district in Ohio at the resident of Boston, Massachusetts. I did not, but it was so wonderful. And I wanted to leave a message, too, size. We put some tears in my eyes, as well. And I hope that the folks that work with you who may be having a hard time this time of year, like me missing my downs, I just wanna send a message to particularly people that you work with, who may also be missing someone's, you know? That they're not alone, isn't it? That they're involved with something to look forward to? And there are always my opportunities, too. Think of the people, that, you miss, and how that leaves a moment of warm connection with them. I just wanna thank you for doing this. And yeah, happy holidays, bye. - Like the way she can barely eat out that last bite. I don't know, something about that just touches me. So John Gonzalez is just the epitome of somebody who just makes sure that the Northeast Ohio Regional Suid District matters so much. So it's not about moving harder as the loose cow would do, right? It's about mattering more. How do we figure out how to matter more to the people who matter to us? It's not just about how work is performing, but I think more than that, how it is compounding, how you are building those relationships over time, how are you building trust and preference? And what's more than that? Like how do you become unforgettable? Because here's the actual truth. As much as we're here to learn about marketing, as much as we've been talking about marketing, I don't think that the rampaging sloth is just about business. Actually, it's about you and it's about me and Dave. (audience laughing) It's about all of us together. The truth is that the cow and the sloth live inside marketing, inside of our programs, but they also live inside each of us, inside our standards that we show up with, inside your attention and where you focus it and where you don't, inside your patience and what you're building and what you're not. And inside what you decide is good enough. When tools can be an easy solution, but yet when you can say no, right? And when you can use them more effectively. Because the thing is, in 2026, speed is cheap. It's easy and speed is abundant. But it's not what's going to get you there. When speed is cheap, it's judgment that carries a premium. I know she's still trolling me with her all caps too. So thank you so much. I think that what we all have taken away from these past few days and together is definitely the relationships that we've built. But I hope that you will also carry with you some judgment and some taste and more importantly, just like the joy in marketing, right? It just is such a joy for me. place. So thank you so much for your time. That's my dog. I promised you a picture of him. I know. That's all again. This is so much. Seth bought his dog. I didn't know that was an option. So again, thank you so much for your time today. I'm going to love it a little bit. Hey, thanks for listening to this podcast. If you like this episode, you know what? I'm not even going to ask you to subscribe and leave a review because I don't really care about that. I have something better for you. So we've built the number one private community for B2B marketers at exit five and you can go and check that out. Instead of leaving a rating or review, go check it out right now on our website exit five dot com. Our mission at exit five is to help you grow your career in B2B marketing. There's no better place to do that than with us at exit five. There's nearly 5,000 members now in our community. People are in there posting every day asking questions about things like marketing planning, ideas, inspiration, asking questions and getting feedback from your peers, building your own network of marketers who are doing the same thing you are so you can have a peer group or maybe just venting about your boss when you need to get in there and get something off your chest. It's a hundred percent free to join for seven days so you can go and check it out risk free and then there's a small annual fee to pay if you want to become a member for the year. Go check it out learn more exit five dot com and I will see you over there in the community. The best marketing leaders have a strong agency or two backing them up and convertive is one I put on that list, especially if AEO is a priority for you right now. It definitely is and a good one is a life saver. They bring fresh creative angles and go deep on specialties like AEO when your team's short on bandwidth. If you're shopping for a BDB agency, check out Convertive. They help enterprise marketing and opts leaders grow revenue across the business. Who do they work with? They work with legit companies like DocuSign, DataBank and Constructor and they build on the search work that you're already doing optimizing your site so more buyers find you and turn it into pipeline. In this month, exit five listeners get a free AEO search snapshot. They'll run your buyers real questions through Google and AI tools show how you stack up against competitors and tell you what's worth fixing. So if you're building your AEO strategy for 2027, start here. Go and check out convertive.com/exit5. That's convertive.com/exit5 and you can see the link in the show notes.