2964: Why You're Still Fat Even Though You Work Out (The Honest Answer)

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MindPump. MindPump. With your hosts, Sal DiStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded health, fitness, and entertainment podcast in history, approaching half a billion downloads. This is MindPump. Today's episode, we had callers call in who wanted help with their health and fitness. We had to coach them live on air, but this was after the intro. Today's intro is 56 minutes long. In the intro today, we talked about why you're not losing body fat, even though you work out all the time. We talk about nutrition and exercise, current events, family life, bring up some studies. It's always fun. Look, if you want to be on an episode like this, if you want to call in and have Adam, Justin, or myself coach you on air for free, send your question to MPLifeCaller.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Joymo. This is a pre-sex. Supplement. 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It's customized for you, your fitness goals, your history, the equipment you have access to, how many days a week you want to work out. Go to MindMapsProgram.com. Within a week, you'll get a call from a trainer who will deliver to you your own MAPS program. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at MindPumpStore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to MindPumpStore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. You work out all the time. You're consistent with your training, but you're still fat. I didn't see that. Check it out. We have five reasons why this is happening. This is almost always the case. If this is you and you're frustrated, you're working out, you're consistent. By the way, good job. That's good. That's still good. But you don't know why you can't get the fat off your body. We're going to help you fix it right now. Let's go. Wow. You did. You're normally so politically correct. That's like something I would do. That's not something you would do. So I'm ready for that. Well, it's a clickbait intro there. But hey, this is, listen, you guys know this. We train people for a long time. This is frustrating for people. Yeah. This is what goes through their head. It does. And this happens to quite a few people who are really consistent with their workouts. They don't miss workouts. They go to the gym, and they're just so frustrated because they're still, you have a lot more body fat in the room. It seems like. They're holding on still. What do they often say? I don't look like I work out. Like, what's going on here? And there's a reason for it. Now, it could be the workout, but we're not going to focus on the workout. We're going to focus on the things that most commonly are the culprit for this type of a frustration. Well, there's an old saying, you can't outwork a bad diet, right? That's tough, but it's true. It is. And normally, this person that you're describing right now is also the person that probably has a pretty decent workout routine, already. But yet, still keeps leaning into, like, there's something wrong with my workout. I need to train to failure more, or I need to do this other thing. Switching all the protocols. Yeah, and what it really is, is we need to really peer into the diet. You know, you have not, or accept that you're not going to have the physique you want. You can still be strong. And you're going to be a lot healthier than somebody who didn't work out. That's right. And so this is why this is such an important conversation first with the client of, like, because what you will get is you will get this, this kind of, like, these conflicting things that they'll say. Like, I really want to be in shape, and I want to look like I work out. But then I also don't want to do, but I don't want to. I don't want to give up this. Yeah, I don't want to give up this, or I don't want to track, or I don't want to do any of these things. And it's like, okay, well, then you just keep doing what you're doing because you're strong, and you're healthier than the version of you who doesn't lift weights. But if you want body composition change, if you want to reduce body fat, the problem does not lie in the way you're lifting. It lies in what you're putting in your mouth. 100%. And that's what we need to fix. 100%. So, again, I want to say this very clearly. If you're overweight, overfat, and you work out, your health is a lot better than if you didn't work out. That's number one. Also, if you were fit and not overfat, you'd be a lot healthier than you are fit and overfat. So body fat, regardless of fitness, still plays a role when it gets up to a certain point. Now, I'm not talking about being short. I'm talking about being shredded. That's typically aesthetic. That's more of a vanity thing. But there is body fat percentages where, regardless of your fitness level, regardless of your stamina and your strength, it starts to play a role in your health. Just healthy ranges is outside of health ranges. That's right. And also, mainly, let's be honest, most people are concerned about this for the aesthetic purposes. It's like, I work out like crazy. I don't look like I work out, and I want to figure out what's happening. Now, what you said, Adam, you can't outwork a bad diet. Here's where that comes from. By the way, there's lots of studies on this. Lots of studies where they just use exercise as a method for weight loss or fat loss. And it's very ineffective. It's just very difficult. Now, it's better than nothing. That's for sure. But look, here's a fact. Burning 1,000 calories through activity takes a lot of work, everybody. It takes a lot of work. The average person, by the way, sometimes you'll get on a cardio machine that tells you you burned 1,000 calories. It's lying. The reality is, to burn 1,000 calories through exercise and activity takes over an hour, for most people, closer to two hours, of vigorous, intense activity. That's a lot of work to burn 1,000 calories. On the flip side, to consume 1,000 calories is a piece. It's easy. It's so easy. We do it on accident. Maybe five minutes. It's pleasurable. It's not hard work. And so, when you put those head-to-head, it's like, yeah, trying to burn off what I ate when I'm eating in a particular way, that's a terrible strategy. We talked a little bit about this the other day. This is the part that I never understood with the logic behind this, of the cardio approach to burning body fat. At least in my eyes, it is far easier to resist the temptation of that thing that's 250 to 300 calories than it is to get on an hour of a piece of equipment. Yeah. I literally had this last night. And so, I haven't had a craving for ice cream in a while. I had it, and I was like, oh, man, we have these little 250-calorie ice cream. Which sounds like nothing. Someone listening right now, it's 250. Yes, 250. That's not a lot. Okay? And I'm like, man, I really want that. And I totally could have it. I've been low-calorie this night, but I'm also on this aggressive fat-loss goal right now. And so, I'm like, that's me walking on the treadmill for an hour. And so, I'm thinking. I'm thinking to myself, am I willing to get up tomorrow morning before work and get on the treadmill and walk for an hour? I just picture someone walking on a treadmill, eating the little tiny 250-calorie ice cream thing while they're doing it. And this is literally what was going through my head. Like, I absolutely can, but I also don't want to. I'm on this consistent track right now. Okay, so what does that look like? Oh, it looks like what I wouldn't do tomorrow anyway, today, which is today. I wouldn't get up at 6 and go walk before work. I would do my normal routine because I'm not doing that right now. So, if I want this, and I don't want to go backslide from the plan and the diet that I'm on right now, then if I eat this, then I got to get up tomorrow at 6 and do an hour walk. I'm like, God, no. It's not that good. Exactly. I'm like, it's not that good. It's not worth it. And so, it's easier for me to say, discipline myself to not do that, than it is to do that and then try and cancel it with activity. Right. No, 100%. And yes, of course, this can go in a dysfunctional direction. So, what we're not saying here… You can't enjoy those things. We talk a lot about that on the podcast, the majority of what we talk about. But what we're talking about specifically, again, is this person who's working out a lot, and they're consistent, and they can't figure out why they can't get leaner. I'll give you the first reason why this is a challenge. You eat out. Oh, yeah. Okay? You just eat out. You eat out daily. One meal a day. This is a lot of people, by the way. A lot of people eat out once a day. Usually, it's lunch, right? They're at work. They eat out lunch. Here's the truth. Here's the truth, okay? The average meal eaten out, if you look it up, the average calories in a meal served by a restaurant, fast food or otherwise, is anywhere between 1,200 to 1,400 calories. It just is. It just is. Even when you're trying to pick the healthy option. I was just at the Cheesecake Factory with my family the other day. And Cheesecake Factory, a lot of places don't even do this, but Cheesecake Factory lists their calories under their meals. - The salads are 1,400 calories. Now, if it didn't list the calories, know food right so i know i can look at a salad i know what the ingredients are so i know it's high calorie the average person be like oh you know what i'm trying to cut my calories i'm gonna get the southwest salad is the go-to yeah yeah it's like i'm gonna be healthy i'm gonna use salad yeah and they're like i'm gonna eat the southwest chicken salad that's 1400 calories right there i might as well eat a burger you know type of deal their low calorie options were six to seven hundred calories yeah which is high calorie for a lot of people who are trying to eat in a way that causes fat loss restaurants do not make money by selling food that is low calorie and super healthy fact restaurants make money by selling food that tastes good even healthy restaurants yeah if a healthy restaurant serves food that doesn't taste which means more butter and then sugar and all that stuff they add in the oil butter we know that we know the rules with fda with 20 percent room to play and i'm telling you guys right now that that's that's what that's what the rules are that i i'm willing to bet that 80 are not even playing by those rules come on you got cooks in the back you think they're measuring everything nobody is and nobody's coming around regulating this okay and if you think i'm full of shit here's what you do and i've done this before and this will blow you away the first time you go do this and this is enough to look for this richer is go to your favorite chipotle type of place or whatever that tracks that says what the go home and go take it out and weigh it and tell me if it's off by two ounces oh my god everything is everything is off everything is off the rice is off the beans is off the guacamole is off every everything you know cheese is off everything that you say that you that you get on there is is off and it is off normally north of what you estimate that to be which is why by the way if i do ever eat out i overestimate on whatever it says like so when i look up on my fat secret or that with 200 plus calories yeah automatically autumn there's oils and butters and stuff that's not accounted for in there for sure they're probably heavy handed so i'm going to 300 plus calories right especially if my goal is to lean out the time different store and if i'm trying to bulk i go the other way by the way when the servings are four ounces to five ounces of chicken which is what it's supposed to be if you had four to five ounces of chicken put in front of you you'd look at it and go that's not too much that's not enough you gotta give me more because they go on uh you eat processed foods so processed foods aren't inherently you know fat fattening or fat producing but they are engineered specially uh to be hyper palatable meaning uh your you will feel satisfied in other words you'll feel like you've eaten enough with processed foods when you've eaten north of four to five hundred more calories than you would have with whole natural foods so in other words your gauge of satisfaction is thrown off so much by processed foods that if you're not even eating till you're stuffed if you're like you know i'll just eat until i'm okay but you're buying foods that are in boxes and wrappers they've been specially engineered with incredible science everybody it's wild if you look into and in fact i i actually encourage people not to do this because it'll freak you out but if you ever want to go down a crazy rabbit hole look into the science that goes into creating hyper palatable processed foods there's so much science that goes into it this is why when you look at a bag of there's a hundred ingredients yeah why are there a hundred ingredients it's a corn chip that tastes like nachos every ingredient in there is placed in there perfectly to dramatically increase palatability or the way your brain perceives it they've hacked into that novelty uh stimulus where it's like everybody knows like if i've been eating the same type of uh food group and uh you know i'm getting kind of uh uh you know fatigued with this to the point where i go grab something that's maybe sugary or maybe something that's more salty and it's different now all of a sudden it stimulates my appetite again and so it's like with every bite you're getting that same experience i've said this before the the studies on hyper palatable foods are some of the best of nutrition studies we've ever had because food studies are so hard to control it's really hard to take people put them in a lab wash the meat for three months and then figure things out it's very difficult to do that super expensive nobody wants to sign up for it so a lot of it's observational and surveys and stuff like that well the process food studies were were in a lab they took people and put them in two rooms and this food both controlled for macros by the way similar proteins fats and carbs this one's hyper palatable uh ultra processed food this one over here is whole natural food let's watch the groups eat not say anything let's just see how much they naturally eat then let's take the groups and switch the rooms and see what happens 600 calories is the difference 600 calories is the difference in other words both groups ate until they were satisfied but when they were in front of the hyper palatable ultra processed foods they didn't stop until they had 600 more calories so if you're eating ultra processed foods and you're not tracking every damn calorie that goes in your mouth like most people like a normal person you can pretty much guarantee you're overeating that's just the way that they were yeah i mean and by the way that's just a study with an average of of stuff for people it's like there's people that could do a thousand 1500 that way i mean i know that if i'm in the eating processed food like it creeps up so and eating out easy so fast it creeps up like that yeah and and have you ever had one oreo ever yeah have you ever had one chip ever in your life i don't have that ability that's never have you ever had one taquito the crazy part is the chip that where it leaves the residue on your fingers and you're like yeah leave and then you you see that and it reminds you oh i want to eat some more i want another one it's still there it's crazy here's another one uh you don't prioritize protein so protein let's talk about its benefits first uh and then we'll talk about the satiety effect so the benefits of protein in calorie controlled diets in other words all things are the same the difference is one group eats high protein you know close to one gram of protein per pound of target body weight the other group eats what would be considered regular protein so nobody's deficient it's like regular protein high protein calories the same both in a deficit the high protein group loses more fat and keeps more muscle in a calorie surplus so you're not trying to lose fat you're trying to gain a high protein diet builds more muscle so that's the benefit satiety wise protein produces far more satiety than fat and carbs what that means is if you eat a high protein diet and you prioritize it from whole natural foods i'm not talking about protein shakes not talking about bars but real food when you prioritize a high protein diet from real food you will eat less naturally naturally if your diet is low in protein you will eat more naturally so prioritizing protein is a great way to help well this is why this one is the the first kind of go-to that we talk about when we are helping somebody we just recently had a live caller and you know he was asking you know some basic stuff with his diet and i'm like let me hear uh what you do and like one of the first things he says like i you know i i'm not i don't really track my protein i think i'm i'd eat around it's like i was like stop i don't need to hear anymore like that's that's i know how impactful just doing that because that's what's so important that takes care of one and two at least a good part of one and two what doesn't that mean that it makes one and two perfect but it does help with one or two because if you just prioritize protein and if you still eat out you'll eat out less if you just prioritize protein and you still eat processed food you'll eat less yeah so doing that really help like naturally manages one and two and then and then if you actually make an effort to follow that and then also follow one and two oh man now you're magic yeah yeah home run that's a felt like that's a felt like that's a felt like that's a fat loss diet exactly you're you're you are going to get an incredible if you follow those three you're getting an incredible shape just by following those three but that just focusing on the protein helps out with one or two right all right here's here's another one this one's really interesting to me when people are watched uh observed in studies eating meals either alone doing nothing it's just them in the meal versus them and the meal and their phone or them and their meal and a computer or them in the meal and tv the difference in caloric intakes about 10 to 15 same food same person 10 to 15 first off you eat faster second off the the satiety signal doesn't register till later right what does that look like i'll tell you what it looks like it's the difference between eating 2 000 calories and two two thousand two hundred and fifty calories okay that could be the difference between going in a deficit and not or being at maintenance or a surplus it's literally so if you if you eat your meals and by the way a lot of people are like this right now this is so especially with phones when smartphones came out most people eat their meals while distracted now if you eat breakfast while on your phone lunch while you're on your phone dinner while you're on your phone you can pretty much guarantee that each meal you are consuming if you just eat till you're satisfied you are consuming 10 to 15 percent more calories just from that alone you're shoveling it in and you don't even realize because yeah you're just not even paying attention but yeah that's just it's easy to do and this is used to be like traveling from one place to the other and then eating on the go and in your car and all that but yeah the phone is a huge factor to this oh yeah are you familiar with the neuroscience of what's going on okay so give me give me an example of and this is the top of mind for me too because we talked about this the other day uh you know when you're on a diet uh you will be hungry right that's just part of the process um when i am one of my strategies at night is going to bed earlier yeah uh because and the what's the opposite of that is staying up late and watching tv um i have an easier time laying in bed trying to go to sleep hungry than I do watching a movie in my bed and being hungry. It's like, it's, it's like, it's an association for sure. Right. There's definitely an association that there's gotta be something else that's happening to on a neurological level. That is like, my brain is distracted in a, in a way where it's like, I, the hunger signal is already there. Me going to sleep and like focusing on going to bed, going to sleep, go in like tomorrow or the, like I've reframed before I'm leaning out right now. Think of the, I mean, I'm guessing that dopamine seeks more dopamine. So you're watching a show, you're getting more dopamine, more dopamine always wants more dopamine, which could come from eating right at the same time. But I do know this and you could, if you're listening to this or watching this, you could practice this, eat all of your meals while not doing anything else. And you will see how different it is. You'll see that you eat less. You just eat less. You chew more. You chew more. You just eat less when you do it. It's so wild. And again, studies consistently show 10 to 15% more calories just from doing that. And lastly, this one's going to piss off a lot of people. You drink alcohol. Yeah, that's a tough one. People don't like to hear that one, but I'm going to tell you right now, your one drink at night is close to 200 to 250 calories. That's typically what people are consuming in the form of an alcoholic beverage. I've had clients lose weight just from that. Yeah. Just from cutting out. There's more of this downstream effects that as well as it interrupts your sleep. And so like, you know, the, even just taking like a couple of degrees better. Sleep, like getting like deeper sleep, uh, will make a massive impact on your, on your fat loss. Can I just say this too? And this is true. One of the effects of alcohol, even a little bit of alcohol, especially a lot of alcohol, but a little bit of alcohol is a reduction in inhibitions. Some of the worst meals I'll ever have are after having a couple of drinks. After having a couple of drinks. That's why Justin feeds it to his wife. Don't tell her that. There are positive strategies. I mean, I do want to make this clear because, uh, we have, we have such, we have such a large listener base that dips in and out of the podcast and you know, you might've listened say three months ago and then now you're listening to this and like, wait a second, I know these guys have drinks and I know Adam has the occasional ice cream and I also eat out and sometimes I've processed food. Right. So I want to make it clear that when I'm speaking to somebody who is not happy with their current state of their body fat percentage, their aesthetics or their, or their goals, right? This is a person we're talking to. Yeah. Like you are, you are trying to make change. You're frustrated. You're not seeing the change. Here are the five most likely things that are going, that are, that does not mean that I don't think that in the real world, like through, throughout life, you should not be able to find a way to have these things. You can have flexibility. That would be the first thing I would eliminate when I'm trying to lean out. And that's just how it is. I know it's a big factor. A 100%. If I was not competing with Sal to get lean right now, I would have had that ice cream. I 100% would have had that 250 calories when I, when I'm already, when I'm already training dial to get in, like that is not doing some, that's not doing damage to me in that situation. That's just slowing down how fast of results I can get right now. And so tonight I'm a door dash ice cream. Do it. Just your favorite thrifty, get a bunch of like ice cream smelling candles. Is that a thing? I don't know. It should be. Why would you get what? Ice cream smelling? Vanilla. Huh? Vanilla. I mean, yeah, that's vanilla is my favorite candle. That's my favorite. But I would absolutely burn a mint chip ice cream candle in my house. That's you could do a mint chip ice cream candle. Is that a thing? Is that your favorite ice cream? I don't think they could do that. Mint chip? Yeah. That's your favorite? Mint chip and chocolate multi crunch. Hmm. Yeah. Those are the two. I mean, the chip is good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, and the, the old man in me likes coconut pineapple and butter pecan too. Oh. Butter pecan is pretty good. Half baked. Damn. That's like fat kid. That's like, that's fat kid love. That's like 5,000 calories in one bite. Yeah, bro. That's half baked. What's half baked? Oh my God. Bro, that's 1,500 calories for that little thing. Yeah. It's like. The fact that I know that's kind of sad. A little bit of brownie, like half baked brownie in there. A little bit of, you know, obviously like cookie dough. It's kind of like cookie dough, chocolate syrup. It's got like. Chocolate syrup. Fuck everything good. It's everything good. Like the goodness of the world is all packed in there. It's like named after. I believe it's from. Is it? From the movie? Half baked? I mean, Ben and Jerry's. It's a stoner. It's a stoner ice cream. I know it's a stoner reference. Yeah. I mean, it's like. It fits stoner. We just took people on the craziest ride right now. I know. We just talked to them about. There is a mint chip ice cream candle. Yes. Come on. I knew it. Yeah. Hook it up. You gotta hook me up. You gotta order me one of them. That's what I'm saying, Sal. You gotta go next level with us. We just took people on such a wild ride. Of course there is. We're like, here's why you're not losing weight. What's your favorite ice cream, by the way? Yeah. That's terrible. Especially as you open it up with the fat comment around the other. The fat guy right now is really frustrated. This is training, everybody. Speaking of, you said half baked. Speaking of cannabis, do you know there was a study that just came out that linked. I'm going to read this to you. I miss my cannabis. They linked. You don't have it anymore, huh? Do you? Never, dude. Yeah. I mean, I've had it. I can count on one hand in the last year. I don't miss it. I really don't miss it. I miss not missing it. Oh. Yeah. I'll be missing you. It's ever since coming off the Kratom, I don't enjoy it the same. Weird. You like them together? I mean, of course. I mean, I would smoke most nights. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Interesting. No, I don't miss cannabis at all. Not at all. Yeah. I have moments where I'm like, I should smoke right now. And I don't. No. You know what identified with me in cannabis? I don't know. It's weird. What? Maybe TMI. Well, cannabis for me leads to lust, like a lot of lust, which has been a problem for me in the past. And so because of that connection, I don't want it. I don't want to be just as looking at you. I don't want to look at Justin when I talk about lust. Yeah. Tell me more. Tell me more. Anyway. I mean, that's part of why I would enjoy it before my wife and I were laying in bed. That's when I would have it. Yeah. But it gets a little, I just, that's, you know, like I said, I'm not going to get TMI, but I just don't, I don't, it's, you know what it's like, you know, some people will say, you know, I used to enjoy drinking, but every time I drink, uh, I start to act like a jerk or something like that. And they connect that, you know, uh, I just connected that, that, that just, I can, it could just move me in that direction. And because that's been an issue that was an issue for me in the past, uh, because I've connected the two, I don't have, uh, uh, any desire for it. I guess I, what I haven't connected yet is the, why I don't enjoy it the same way anymore. I mean, it's a good thing. Right. And it's, it's great. Cause the, the, the timing, I remember for my motivation early on to quit cannabis was more related to max. Yeah. You don't want them to know. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't want to have to ever even have to explain that. Right. And so that was like, that was kind of always in the back of my head, like, Hey, he's going to get to a certain age where he'll pick up on smells or he would see paraphernalia or something like that. I just don't want, I don't want that at all. And it's not, again, I'm not, obviously I'm not anti-marijuana guys just that like there'll come a time in his age. When we'll have that discussion and that's what I don't want to have it at seven. Motivation for me. Yeah. I don't want to have it at seven. You know what I'm saying? Modeling it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause other than that, for me, unfortunately I have all these like positive associations, like, uh, like crazy creativity and like music. Like, why is I, you know, it's funny, but it really does like impact that. And then also my sleep was great, but now that I've removed it, it's like, I, I'm struggling with that. So I'm like, kind of like undulating it, like see if I could like lower it. You don't do smoke. So that's like, that would be easy. It's right before bed. Typically. Cause edibles are scary. Not because you could take too much. That's, that's obvious. But, uh, when you have little kids, cause they make edibles taste like candy. Well, yeah, I know. Could you, I don't even want to think about, I don't even want to think about a kid, my kid accidentally finding, you know, an edible. I mean, bro, if, if, I mean, if you're, if you're an adult. Okay. Yeah. You gotta be really responsible. I was going to say, if you're an adult and you have cannabis, I mean, yeah, come on. Like you. It happens all the time. I mean, it does, but they make little cheap safes, dude. Like, come on. Like. But you know what happens all the time. You know what happens every, you know, every day kids are rushed to the hospital because they ate their parents fricking. I know. I'm sure it happens or whatever. Don't leave that laying around. No. No. Yeah. But then again, you're talking about stoners. Yeah. Yeah. Not the most. Be responsible. Not the best memory people. Yeah. Yeah. You know, speaking of which there's a study that, uh, came out that, uh, linked. So this came from King's college of London. This was published in Science Daily, September 30th. So a review of more than 265,000 people found that cannabis use was associated with higher rates of both committing violence and becoming a victim of it. No. I mean, that's what this is. No. I love it when you disagree with this. I don't even have to see that so you know it's bullshit. What is that? That is bullshit. Violence? Yeah, get out of here with that. Hold on. Before you get all weird, dude. I don't even need to see it. I don't even know. You know how you get with stuff when you're like, I already know. I already know. Well, tell me. What do you think? I don't even know. What do you think they found? It's wrong. That's how I know. It was wrong. Wrong. Paid for by the Alcohol Association. Yeah, totally. Totally. Funded by cigarettes. Yeah. No, no, no. Listen, okay? All right, let's hear it. It's 265,000 people. It's an association. It doesn't mean it's cause and effect, but there's an association. So let's try to explain why they found this. Why did they find it? Why did they find that cannabis users were twice as likely to both commit and become a victim of cannabis? Well, cannabis users, does that mean like just somebody who admits they use or. also like also but yeah so these are people that smoke so they're less risk averse like that or they they they have they're more carefree there's like a lot of things that could go into that like they're happier to be violent well no so because definitely people that are under the influence of cannabis are not more likely to be violent than somebody that is is uh like well so here's what here's for sure not so so there's some speculation around it because again it's association which doesn't mean it's a terrible study it doesn't mean that there's a causation sometimes i feel like you're working with a group of friends i mean it's just a terrible study sal okay no first off i'm gonna back you up yeah i'm gonna back you up yeah okay uh if you've ever known stoners have you ever used cannabis yourself the last thing on earth that you i'm not gonna categorize them as violent people it might make you paranoid and scared which just make you want to do less i mean it wouldn't make anything you're gonna remove yourself like away from people but here's what happens the can't heavy cannabis users are probably more more likely to be violent than to use other drugs okay that's probably more likely that's fair now to be put in situations that i mean that study reminds me of it reminds me of the caffeine study in the cigarettes it's like that you have people who had a lot of caffeine back in the day or coffee also smoke cigarettes yeah yeah so this is the whole gateway drug theory so that you yeah i i that makes more sense to me and then that's why it's a terrible study because it's like it's you're totally doing a uh there's no causation there there's not even very much correlation now that being said okay because that's 100 i'll put my money on that adam i'll put my money on it that what you're finding with people who use cannabis regularly are also people who also use other drugs more regularly including alcohol which is true also you're probably these are people who are associating themselves with other people who use other drugs they're in those situations because they're also the victims of more violence they're not just committing more violence they're also the victims of more violence so they're they're in situate in my opinion i would bet money they're in situations where things like that are more likely to happen that being said that being said the the strength of cannabis has gone up so much that the psychiatric effects the the the horrible psychiatric effects the schizo type effects has risen uh with cannabis use because the dose is so freaking strong yeah it's wild listen i so i i'll speak personally okay i i don't have any epigenetic underlying like psychosis like yes it's not gonna be good for if you have if you are you know you're teetering on the on the borderline of of psychosis and then you have some strong ass weed you're gonna you're more likely to tip you right so i'll tell a personal story so i i don't really use cannabis anymore like i just said but there was a period there where i had it every single day i had it every single night this was right around it started right around i had somebody very close to me uh who was terminal um and i researched it for her she had cancer then i started using it then i started finding escape in it and then it just became a habit and then i started using it and then i started using it and then i started using it and then i started using it and then i started using it and then i started using it and i had for years and years and years and so i would go buy it at the dispensary so we're in california it's been legal for medicinal use for a while and it's been legal now for regular use for a while but back then it was just medicinal use so i got myself a you know medical marijuana card with your glaucoma which was which which was the funniest thing i know it was the most joke your doctor shows up high dude you go to the mall that's real talk right there that's real there's a 50 50 shot your doctor was stoned bro it was a 50 50 shot your doctor was stoned when he gave it to you so it was a you walk in there oh you have pms here you go oh you know but your hurts here's your card anyway i got a fungal infection when i used to go buy it i was i got really into cannabinoids i really got really into the science again because i was trying to look for the the chemo effect the effects for someone on chemo the effects for uh for cancer and so i would always look for high cbd or good ratio and i you know i paid attention to that kind of stuff and back then this was only like this was maybe 15 16 years ago maybe 17 years ago at the most uh you know 15 16 thc was was the norm 20 was like oh god this is strong okay you go to a dispensary right now everything is 26 27 everything it went up that much well i don't even think it's i mean as crazy as that is i don't even think it's i think it's the people that which are like anything else you tend to you if you were someone who was doing on later 10 doesn't do much 15 than 20 and then what comes after that is like things like dabbing and hash and all that stuff and that stuff gets crazy and the edibles are crazy bro i remember back in the day a five milligram edible was the norm yeah they don't even sell five they sell 100 milligram edibles 100 yeah that'll that'll put you in a in a in another universe yeah 100 milligrams yeah yeah it's crazy so and i mean it's you know it's it's a you know interesting fact you know that like prohibition times like that we've followed the same uh pattern right like when legal states first illegal and then certain states and then you had to get a doctor prescription and everything like that too very similar yeah yeah yeah yeah same same thing like i don't know if they use things like anxiety and like yeah i don't know what they i'm in a bad mood what the what the excuse is and what they connected it to what alcohol positively can do well whatever i don't remember what what those were but uh similar uh similar pattern as and it was probably i'm sure was laughable back then too it was just a loophole basically in the system that you can legally get it and that was the the same same concept that's wild that's wild all right so uh earlier i took some joy mode which i haven't had for a while uh because uh i really like the way it gives me energy i really do i've used it as a pre-workout it's not a stimulant so people listening joy mode is a pre-sex supplement so you know you're probably like why did you take it before podcasting yeah uh it's not for that it's because what were the medical reasons dad it contains hold on i'm sorry oh you're looking for the alcohol yeah he found he found that what he was fact checking me and it was yes it's true but i wanted to see what the medical reasons were so joy mode is a pre-sex supplement but the compounds in there really are geared around blood flow it's all about increasing blood flow because if you're uh you know when when you're gonna have sex better blood flow means uh better erection performance that kind of stuff so that's all the compounds in there which also help with pre-workout so take it as a workout you get better pumps it's also good for endothelial health for the health of your arteries uh we know this now endothelial health is like one of the most important things to pay attention to when you want to reduce your risk of things like cardiovascular disease anything i also just feel energy from it i feel great i've done the same yeah just for energy before workouts and it's no stimulus it's non-stimulant so you can take it at night and go to sleep afterwards and also you're a little more i mean if you got access if you got access to this you got access to this commercial you got access you can't avoid it i'm just saying this is your hack right here for everybody okay because it takes it takes a solid 30 45 minutes for it to kick in you take it then you go sit in the sauna for a good 20 30 minutes and then you then you rinse off in your shower and then by the time you get out of shower it's it's go time it's go time it's go time so that's that for you yeah is that why we've never sawn it the combo of those two together uh pre going to bedtime is is awesome oh that's if you're you haven't done that you have to do that no i know i do yeah i leave it down play it oh what what are you talking about i don't know yes that's that's that's really weird dude did i tell you speaking of like that kind of stuff did i tell you my wife we were she got real mad at me and she tried to insult me but it turned into and she felt really bad she felt really she came back and apologized what happened but she didn't need to apologize because the way she insulted me was what happened first what were you guys doing so we got this big argument because uh you know over my relationship to fitness so long story short i won't get on the details but um i wanted to work out with her in the morning and i'm trying to make that happen a little bit more often just we spend time together uh but you know start work out at 7 a.m we got the kids kids get in the way you know so she can you know be a little late or whatever and i'm really like rigid about it i gotta leave at a certain time when i'm gonna try to finish my workout and so we were just talking about like she and this is the conversation we had where you know she noticed that i'm like yeah i'm gonna eat less but it turned into i'm gonna get shredded she's like you're just going from one extreme to the other so we're having this conversation turned into an argument because i don't want to be told that i get defensive and then she gets you know whatever and so we were just going she got really mad at me and she goes i don't even like the way you look and at first i was like oh like wow but she immediately followed it up she was like this this is the whole statement i don't even like the way you look you look like an action figure you're almost 50 you shouldn't look like that hey i can i can i can feel i can feel the emotional the emotional roller coaster that your body went through in that in that three seconds it went oh i feel like your shoulders like this and then you're like i don't like the way you look essentially i don't like the way you look you look too jacked you know she said that to me now because we're in the argument i was just like you know whatever so i'm not like you know yeah yeah and then like you know hours later she comes up to me and she's like she just felt really bad you know she's like man i didn't i'm really sorry i i like the way you look i'm so sorry i said that that's so horrible and i felt like i told her that honey you did tell me i look like an action figure right now that was the best shit sandwich i've ever got that was not a you didn't hurt my feelings at all i was like the best that was the goal yeah i don't look like a 50 year old whoops accidental accidental compliment best the best insult i've had all year i know that's so good Have you guys seen the data? on uh kids and how they identify sexually and what's happening right now with it dude dude has it changed okay and so what are we getting better what is this timeline that they're observing from so starting in 2015 yeah there was a sharp rise of kids identifying uh as lgb so either lesbian gay or bisexual okay peaked it peaked in 2021 so here's where it was ready in and i'll give general numbers in 2015 it was like right around 10 percent of of you know teenage kids said that they're either lesbian gay or bisexual by 2021 that number had gotten as high as 25 so like all of a sudden like oh my god now people were like oh it's because people are more accepting this is just how it is this is whatever well turns out that's not true because right now it's 2020 this latest date of 2025 that number has dropped to roughly 15 so you saw this huge spike and this huge drop dropped which which flies in the face of the you know this is just you're born this way type of deal and i'm not saying that that's also not some truth to it but but this does point to that there is a very strong social component uh when we're talking about this because it's a big swing that's not a small swing no that's a huge difference for over the course of you know 10 years sure that we're seeing that kind of stuff didn't um who's the professor who wrote the book coddling of the american mind he also spoke at the arc event didn't he do some research on all that i don't know was he part of that i don't know what i'm talking about i can't remember his name coddling of the american uh the coddling of the american mind is that his last name what's his name there doug there's two authors of that book it's the one it's the one that we saw speak it uh and he's got another great book jonathan hate oh jonathan didn't he do research i'm not sure i could have sworn he spoke on this also and he's got a new book uh outside of coddling american mind i don't know what it is yeah you know when it comes to this topic uh there's so much a lot of there's been a lot of study into trying to look for a genetic connection they can't find it yeah um and and there's so much that points to um uh that this this is very strongly influenced by yes by uh life experiences and by social um you know norms uh that it's just highly influenced when and i always i mean the culture around it well i always thought this because i mean there's a great example of this like prison is a great example of this like dudes do a lot of things in prison that are uh gay that are that they wouldn't do outside of prison and it's just the environment that has changed yeah so it's i mean you're also you're also talking about a a time in most kids life that is is kind of confusing when your hormones are radically changing you're a teenager you're learning about like there's so much that's happening and so um i think even somebody who doesn't identify as that there's a lot of confusion around sexuality and understanding that's right stuff so easily a time where that could i could see get manipulated by or influenced i should say um by society pressure societal pressures for sure so i'm not surprised um i'm not surprised by that at all yeah i was more surprised by the 25 number because anytime i've been in i mean that would that would basically mean at least one or two of us should be in this room i mean that's a there's only one of us yeah yeah that's one in four that's that's a high number it is a high number yeah yeah that's a really high i know i know it's crazy but it's interesting it's dropped so significantly so it kind of you know it points to that a little bit so is that just more of a cultural thing that's shifted uh yeah because that's what it seems like yeah i mean too yeah because you do see a lot of effort uh in a lot of content and a lot of like media and it was it was really highlighted quite a bit you know and so that has to like play a factor i think i think it totally does which it should kind of level out what you think because we tend to do that the whole pendulum thing right we went so extreme and then we're like oh my god we're going to do that and then what probably settles in the next four to five years is probably a more realistic number yeah that's what i would say yeah that's what i was thinking dude i i was um watching this this um it wasn't like a documentary but it was like kind of behind the scenes of uh napoleon dynamite um which i love that movie and it was like such a random comedy that kind of came out of nowhere but they were highlighting the fact that like he started the guy that created that film um i guess he was in some school this is like a school project and he he only put like 500 into it initially and literally had like so the guy that played like napoleon dynamite was like one of his buddies and they first like launched it off through you know like presented to class the professor kind of liked this you know you got something here then they kind of went through like one of those like film festival things and then got like really good reviews and then he literally just ran it um on like a really tight budget it was like something like a couple hundred thousand was like four hundred thousand made like 4.6 million or something off the film but um it was crazy about it was like they're going through the whole way that they shot it and i had no idea that they actually used like a real high school pretty much everybody in there were real people like students of the high school and so they didn't use like they didn't cast a lot of um you know like background actors or like stand-ins and all that it was all just like real people like in idaho in this in this uh community uh and the guy that i forget his name jonathan i forget his name the the guy played napoleon dynamite but like he had already been working on that weird dance he did at the end oh yeah uh on his own and like so a lot of these scenes were totally impromptu and they just like filmed it and that became like a cultural just phenomenon i was always confused so i napoleon dynamite i think it's just a cult classic i think it's it's the the more you watch it the funnier it gets so i was just gonna okay i was gonna ask you guys so glad you you said that went that direction because when i think about napoleon dynamite i'm also reminded of zoolander two of my favorite comedies oh yeah that one grows on you later i didn't like either one of them the first time yeah they're funnier fell in love like liked it the second time third time like i fell in love with it the first time i'm like what am i watching yeah yeah and so and i think people that didn't like it like that's what happened is you go this weird i don't get it you don't know what you're watching maybe you didn't finish it because it's so different but the once you get it and you get like the humor behind it like it becomes like hilarious to me i can't what is that i don't know i don't know because there's a few movies that that that's happened to me with yeah those are the two that come to mind there's songs that like that too by the way i'll listen to a song sometimes there's there's things like that there's art like that uh my buddy texts me about uh a car right and uh i've seen this before with with vehicles or i see um a new design um that say ferrari comes out with and when it first gets launched i'm like that is ugly i don't like it and then over time of seeing it this has just recently happened to me i saw one and in person i went damn that looks beautiful i looked i thought it was ugly at first what is that is it's like a not maybe it's something that's so novel yeah it's so novel our brain can't connect it to something we've seen before and so it kind of wants to push back on it and then it becomes open to it like well they there's got to be some i think what's there is it's in terms of napoleon dynamite by itself was just like the way that they did everything was completely opposite of what hollywood does so like they i mean for the most part it was just shot like very like spur of the moment like we're gonna run this today like and they would just run with it and they didn't like they didn't cut a lot of things out like they they just uh decided to to make it as authentic and they used authentic a lot because it was like um they were trying to like they're they're these real people not they weren't like leaning into like funny jokes or leaning into they're just like trying to make these quirky characters like as like he would do it this way he would like all of a sudden you know get up and run all weird and and you know so i think it was just like it you're like you relate to it on a level where it's like this is more realistic versus like scripted staged you know performative well the thing that always confused me about napoleon dynamite is i could never figure out what decade they were depicting well that was what brought up too because the wardrobe itself so you have to like if you're gonna pick an era you have to spend a lot of money on set design yeah and a lot of like costume design so all they did was went to local thrift stores there and every outfitted everybody in local so so basically you're like retro but you you could be like now you could be back then it was weird because at some points i'm like okay oh i just assumed like 80s no but there's things that they're depicting in there that that shows that it's at the time oh it's all really drawings you know the unicorn the lager i mean that was literally his drawings oh wow but i mean like the trapper keeper her hair that's what i'm saying the the the photos that she did i mean everything was 80s what was not 80s have you ever walked through a thrift store yeah that's literally what you're watching like yeah the trapper keeper's there the old backpack you know what what decade was napoleon dynamite depicting because maybe they were trying to do something like that to depict that's what i feel like they weren't they weren't half the time it didn't make any sense really no i felt like everything was kind of 80s it was like see It was depicting contemporary early 2000s, even though it looks like it took place in the past. Interesting. Yes, dude. So then to Justin's point, it's like, which by the way, in the 2000s, well, in the 90s, and I think this is coming back, I think this is in style again, I don't know, with kids, but I know in the 90s, I remember when thrift store shopping became popular again, like where wealthy kids would go and buy thrift store clothes because it was in vogue, right? And so that was around that time. So in the 90s, it was cool to wear thrift clothes, even if you didn't need to buy thrift clothes. So I wonder if that was kind of the movie, because that's the era there, and they were definitely wearing stuff. So it's like, you know, it was just trying to kind of like encapsulate that area. So it says here that director Jared Hess based the film on his upbringing in a rural community capturing how isolated, small towns were. And so it's like, you know, it's like, you know, small towns often lag behind mainstream pop culture and modern technology. Yep. That makes sense. That totally makes sense. Did you, who, all of us grew up in bigger towns, huh? No, I was small town. I was small town, actually, yeah. Yeah, Felton's small. I was hella small town. Yeah, but you were surrounded by like, you're in the Bay Area. Well, I mean, I was close to Santa Cruz. We could get down there, but it was like, where we were, like, it was pretty insulated. It was like, there was a lot of like cowboy and, I don't want to, like, I guess like skater or surf kind of guys. Yeah, but that was it. Like, that was our culture. Oh, I was small town. Especially that, K through, I was in a K, in Don Pedro, it was K through 8th. The high school had 50 students in the whole high school. Oh, yeah. It was smaller than Napoleon Dynamite School. That's real small. Yeah, I grew up in. That must have been weird. Very weird. Very weird. That's why I'm weird. Really? That's why I'm off a little bit, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. I was the coolest kid in school. I definitely was. Yeah, there's 12 of us. That's like the time I did a grade. Four of them were special needs. That's the time when I was a kid. It wasn't a big deal for me. Did I ever tell you guys the time I did a judo tournament, I got third place. There were three people in my pool. I was on the podium. I had a medal. I got third place, bro. There was three of us. Oh, no. I remember being like, this doesn't feel right. This doesn't feel right at all. Congratulations. Yeah, well, I got last place. Yeah, no, the lagging behind is a very true thing. When you go to a rural town like that, I mean, we see this even today in the community. In the country, places like LA and New York are way ahead. Then you go right in the middle of America, and they're 10 years behind. You'll still see old starter parkas. No, yeah, totally. The stuff that was hot like 10 years ago is just now making it there, and that's all out of style. Yeah, yeah. So if you compare, look at like a New York and an LA style, go middle America, and that's what 10 years ago LA or New York was doing. Yeah, it's 20 years. Question for you, because I know you're like hardcore into the cut and doing all that calories, all that stuff. Yeah. Have you bumped up? Have you bumped up your consumption of element? Yes, two a day right now. Okay, so now you're two a day. Yeah, yeah. Have you played with- Especially on a sauna day. I could get away with one, but I'm two. Have you played with like pushing it before your workout to see what happens to your pump? Well, so that's one of the things I'll do right now, especially in case, so- So how many, so you have two a day. Is it one before your workout, one before sauna? Yep. Try two before your workout. Really? Try two before your workout, one before your sauna. Bro, so that's what I do. So I have one- You have 2,000 milligrams before. I do. So I have one. I have 1,000 milligrams that I mix with pre-workout. Yeah. And then I have another 1,000 milligrams that I'm drinking in the workout itself. And it makes it, I've done it where I forgot. Yeah. And I only did one. It makes a difference to have that much. Interesting. Because I- I get a way better pump. I mean, I have to, this is, I mean, it's again, it's cool going through this with you right now because I'm reminded of all these little tips and tricks and things that I do. You know, I'm in that phase right now, that awkward phase of cutting where I don't like the way I look because I'm flat. Yeah. You know, I'm- You're not shredded enough to really wear it. Yeah, yeah. And I'm low, I'm so low carb, low calorie and consistently. And that, so people understand that like, it pulls all the glycogen out of your muscles. And water. And so in the bodybuilding world, we call that a flat, yeah. And also your body's not holding as much water in there. So I'm like trying to shuttle as much water as I am there. So it's interesting that you say that. And part of that strategy of doing the sodium before and then I drink a lot of water is to try and get as much water in me. As I can to create the illusion that I can air up more because it, and I tell you, it's such a psychological game because- It's all psychological. It's so psychological, it makes you want to adjust or think that things aren't going well because what it looks like in the mirror is that I'm losing muscle. Yeah. It looks like I'm like, I'm getting worse. You're just getting smaller. Yeah, I'm just getting smaller. But I also know, and when you're really good and consistent long enough, and sometimes I have to do this because the psychological game is so strong, is I will intentionally plan a big refeed day so I can see. That's right. And so I'll go like, let's say, and I already planned this this week. Dude, my body weight will swing four pounds. Oh, easily. I'll go five, six easily. And I'll look way different. So I'll do that this week because I'm in that kind of state right now. It's been like two or three weeks where I've been really low and depleted. And so when my workout that I do on Friday, I've already planned, like I'm going to load. I'm going to load really hard. I'm going to have a high calorie day, high carbohydrates, get a workout in, and then what filled up me revealed, and I'll go, oh, okay. I just did that. So I did that last night. So I went home last night, and my wife made homemade pesto, pasta with pesto, which is just my favorite. It's so good. It's homemade. It's high calorie because there's oil in it. There's cheese. There's pecorino cheese in there. It's pasta. Then she made lamb chops. Lamb chops is a very fatty cut of meat. And so I had a big old meal of pasta with pesto, lamb chops. And then afterwards, I'm like, okay, I want even more sodium and some more carbs in my diet. So I had a little bag of potato chips because I knew I was going to work out this morning. Huge difference. I worked out, and I was like, there it is. It was all from my psychological. So here's the trap. Because you're doing this intentionally because you know what you're doing, as I'm going to do. And then I'll go right back to the cut. That's right. Someone else will be like, this is what I need to do. This is what I need to do. I know. And so you go, oh, that's what's wrong. I look so much better today. Stay the course now. Do more of that. And then you start overeating. And then now you're putting body fat on. And so that was one of the hardest things about getting really shredded was staying in that deficit for long periods of time like that, already fighting the hunger signals and all those things. And then also the psychological part of, I don't like the way I look. I feel weaker inside the gym. And then you go, okay, I can't do this anymore. So you have a big day of eating. And then you go, oh my God, I look way better. And then you go, I'm going to go that way. And so all my 20s, that was what dieting looked like for me. That's right. I would only go so far. And then I'd see the extra calories and go, oh, that's what I'm supposed to do. And go the other way. But it's like, you have to get past that and know that you keep going that direction. Because yeah, you in a depleted state look so different than you filled up. Totally. And you can get that right back. By the way, these are Justin's favorite conversations. When you and I have these conversations, I just- Is there like a tune out button? Is there? Hey, he's over there. And he's thinking about other things. Hey, the rest of you that are listening to this, I apologize. I'm sorry to talk about you. Can he leave or- Get big or die. He hates it, dude. I mean, I know it's so vanity driven, body- No, no, there's a lot of people who- Well, so that's why I really enjoy talking about it. And I shared this when I went through my bodybuilding journey. I became a- I became a- I became a- I became way more of a better coach through that process because actually being able to connect- You're tuned into the psychological piece 100%. On a whole nother level. I know. And so, you know, because there was times where clients would try and communicate how they felt or they explained to me like, I feel fat. And I didn't have the words for like what they probably were going through. Where now I could totally explain to that person probably what's going on or what happened. Or even better, you tell them ahead of time. Here's what this is going to feel like. That's where the really good coaching comes in. It's like, I can now forecast for them that, hey, this is what's probably going to happen. You're going to feel this way. It's totally normal. Like that's- Speaking of which, we rarely ever plug this. What's the link to see if you want to work with one of our coaches? Because we talk about coaching all the time. I know we're limited on coaches, but what's our link for coaching? MindPumpPersonalTraining.com is our website. MindPumpPersonalTraining.com. We have coaches now. If you want to hire an online coach that was trained, hired, developed by us, so we know they're good, go to MindPumpPersonalTraining.com and you can fill it out and see if it's right for you. All right, so what is ButcherBox? So ButcherBox delivers better meat for a better you with great convenience. So here's what they do. They deliver 100% grass-fed beef, free-range chicken that's organic, pork that is raised crate-free, wild-caught seafood. So if you like protein, but you also like high quality, you go to ButcherBox, you set yourself up with a monthly box. It comes to your door. The meat is frozen, thrown in the freezer. Now you've got high quality protein that also will save you tremendous amounts of money. It's also inexpensive. It's cheaper than going to the grocery store to find these things yourself. So if you want high quality meat with good prices, go to ButcherBox.com slash MindPump. On that link, you'll get free ribeyes, New York strip steaks, or filet mignon, in every order included for free. For a year plus, $20 off. Here we go. Our first caller is Rachel from England. Rachel, welcome back. How are you doing, Rachel? Hi there. Hello. Hello. How are you doing? Well, you were right. Oh, my goodness. I love when people open up with that. No way. No way. We knew that, didn't we? Yeah, I've been eating more. Strength has gone up. Not hugely, but good for a lady my age. Five pounds on the barbell bench, six pounds on the barbell bicep curls. So it's going up. It's increasing. I've upped my – I've started to have more – well, I've started to have porridge oats with protein for breakfast, which I wasn't doing before. And then having Greek yogurt with some. And protein in the evening. I probably could eat more, which I think I'm going to do because I can see the gains, so. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. So I'm on the right track. Very good. How's the energy? Any changes in your just overall energy? Yeah. Yeah, much more. Yeah, and sleeping better, too. Oh, wonderful. Let's go. Let's go. Yeah, so a win all round, to be honest. Now, it's only been 60 days. But do you see a difference in the mirror? I do in – yeah, where I wanted it. I'm beginning to see a bit more definition, which is, as you know, what I wanted. So – and my husband made a comment the other day as well about my arms, so. Hell, yeah. Rachel. Yeah, so I'm going to just keep going. I want to get more and more and more muscle. That a girl. Yeah, yeah. That's wonderful. That's what I want. And I haven't put any weight on. I didn't get fluffy. As I asked you, would I get fluffy? I haven't. In fact, to be honest, I possibly might have lost a bit. But I've not weighed. Good. So my clothes feel good. I certainly don't feel fluffy. In fact, to be honest, I feel probably firmer. Good. That's excellent. Just keep thinking to yourself, I'm going to build the body I want. And not have to lose. And definitely a sign that we could probably feed more, like you said. So that's a great sign. Great sign. Have fun with it. This is great. Yeah. Yeah, really happy. You're definitely right. I mean, we knew that, didn't we? But – Us ladies are scared to eat, aren't we? Yeah. Yeah. From what we've been previously told. But, I mean, I'm eating good food, so. That's exciting. But, yeah, I'm going to up it. And so carry on with anabolic. Yeah, I love anabolic for you. Muscle Mommy would be good for you. PPL would be good for you. Symmetry would be good. Those are all programs, I think, that you could do well. Good muscle building programs for you. Yeah. Yeah. I've got anabolic and I've got symmetry. Okay. Follow symmetry next. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Yep. Wonderful, Rachel. This is good news. I'm so happy you trusted us. Yeah. But now that you see it – And I used to tell my clients this all the time. I'm going to ask you to trust me now, and if you do, I won't have to ask you again. And so now you're at the point now where you don't need to just blindly trust. You can see what it's doing. Yeah, definitely. And this is the tip of the iceberg. It's only been 60 days. It actually accelerates as you go in this process. So this is going to be fun. Great job. Great example. Perfect. Great job. Very good. Thanks for calling in. Good to see you again. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye. Thank you. Wonderful. I love hearing that. Yeah, yeah. And it's expected, and I'm so glad she communicated the way she did. She doesn't feel fluffier. She even looks more defined. She's more firm. Strength training requires nutrients, and you've got to take them in to make those body changes. And if you don't feed yourself, you're just stuck. And remember, she's like way more energy and stronger. She feels it. Her husband's calm. Better sleep, all those things. And she's going to move in the right direction. And the fact that she has maintained weight or even possibly lost weight is a sign, too. Like she said, I think I can eat more. And she's right. If she was able to maintain weight or even possibly go down, absolutely, we could push calories even more. So if she keeps leaning into that, she can continue to see the gains. Our next caller is Haley from Michigan. Haley, what's happening? How you doing, Haley? Hello. Hi. How are you guys? Good. Good. How can we help you? So I actually talked to you guys. I don't even know. I don't even know what it was now. But I was asking for program advice for playing year-round overseas for basketball. And unfortunately, I have since torn my ACL, MCL, LCL, and both of my meniscus in March of 2025. So that's been, yeah, it was not my greatest moment of my life. But so unfortunately, I was meant to have surgery in Germany. But my PTs had me do no range of motion or mobility. So I actually had to wait. I had to wait three and a half months for that surgery. And then I had the reconstruction. I had both meniscus repaired. And then I had a scar tissue removal in January of this year. So it's just been like a lot. I've switched like physios about four times. And then at the same time, I've been dealing with just like a lot of chronic gut issues that I've had probably since I would say probably started my junior year or senior year of high school. So at least like 10 years now, I'm old. I'm like 28 now. So it's been ages. And I'm just always like, I don't know. I just always struggle with that a bit. But so my question is, that's just a little bit of context of just everything that's been going on. So I've really just been struggling to find professionals that understand the complications of both my injury and kind of healing my gut and all that. At the same time, I've been feeling overwhelmed and frustrated and just not feeling like I have the proper support. As I've said, I've like been working with four different physios and I've worked with maybe two different functional practitioners now. And I think I did like Chinese. I think I did like Chinese medicine at one point, really like checking all the boxes. I had been advised to eat really low carb and restrict certain food groups. Added sugars, gluten, dairy, some like histamine stuff, which helped and helped me feel less inflamed. But I just felt so fatigued and lost my period at some points, which as a recovering athlete, I know enough to know like that's not ideal. And I think since being injured and trying to heal all these things. That once it's just very overwhelming, I've definitely struggled with some body dysmorphia as I lost so much muscle during my injury process. I've just struggled with like eating patterns of like now I'm kind of like have that carb fear that I used to I used to eat just a ton and not really second guess it. And just kind of confusion now of how to eat properly. So I don't always feel puffy and inflamed, but I am quite literally rebuilding my entire leg. I've just again, I lost so much muscle. I was like this big at one point and I'm a very muscular person. So just a vast difference. I currently weigh around 165 plus or minus. I'm not or like maybe five or 10 pounds. I'm not really big on weighing myself for kind of these reasons, but I'm trying to rebuild my body and be able to compete professionally again while also still in the process of healing my gut. I am on a protocol and just trying to get rid of that like inflamed puffy feeling that I feel all the time. I think someone called last week. She just said she never feels like she looks the way she trains and like the just like the effort I put into it. I put so much effort into this. I just don't feel like I feel how I would like to feel competing or just like in myself. So basically, I would love any nutritional insight or just any insight in general on any of this stuff that you guys have on just proper macro intake. Just literally anything about injury or being athletic again, healing your body. And yeah, I just want to feel healthy and confident in myself. As a human and I really just want to get back to doing what I love. So that's kind of the root of it. But yeah, so I'd love anything you guys have for me. That sounds really tough. Yeah, sounds like you've really been through it. How did you how did you tear your knee so so badly? Did someone run into you on the court? I was going up for kind of like a little two-legged layup. But as I was going up, I slightly paused which allowed her to come up. So when I went to jump, she was coming down on this shoulder and all my weight was on my right shoulder. And I was like, I'm going to jump on my right leg and essentially snapped like I thought I broke my leg. And yeah, unfortunately, Germany just didn't have a great protocol for that. So I ended up being like on the stretcher for like 45 minutes, like no pain medication until they had to come seduce me. And then like after that, my leg was out able to straighten. But yeah, I was just like, it's been a lot. That's really rough. Okay, let's talk about your gut health for a second. You said you're on a protocol. Yeah. Have you been tested for SIBO, SIFO for parasites? Have you done any tests for those? Yes, I did the GI map test and I didn't have anything. No parasites came up. I haven't been tested for SIBO, but given just, I also did some surveys and she said they didn't think that was an issue. It's actually, I have really low, good gut bacteria. So I have a bit of like dysbiosis and then just kind of everything's not functioning that well. So I'm kind of trying to, I'm like in the rebuilding phase of getting all the stuff back. And so I know like the restriction isn't helpful because I'm trying to rebuild, but my brain is just like, I feel like shit. So, or sorry, I just don't feel great. So yeah, I'm like fighting like little devil angel on my shoulder. Like, oh, you need to eat or this makes you feel good. But then it's like, but yeah, you don't feel good when you eat these things. So it's just been tough. And you said you're tired. You're, it makes you feel tired with these restrictions. Are you still trying to be super active? Um, so I am like doing my rehab three, like lower body, like pretty obviously trying to lift heavy. Um, I'm. I'm kind of getting back into plyometrics. So I have a little bit of that explosive stuff at the start. And I'm doing like one to two court workouts a week. And then I try to walk, you know, after meals because I know that helps with digestion. And then doing two to three zone two cardio is usually on the bike or rower or something like that. So it's not my old level of activity, but I am, I think, still physically moving a good amount. So there's because there's two levers here that we need to work with if you're feeling fatigued because healing your gut is priority. OK, because if you don't heal your gut, you can eat more and you're just going to get more inflamed. I've dealt with this. I know what that's like. So it's like you got to pick which ones, you know, which one comes first. And the one that comes first is working on your gut health. So there's two things, two levers here. It's either eat more, but that's kind of out of the question. And the other ones move less. So if you're feeling really fatigued, what I would try to do is eliminate the activity that you don't feel is essential. OK, so maybe the zone two cardio. Maybe get rid of that and sleep is going to be a big one. How is your sleep? It's great. I usually don't have much issues with that. I've kind of delved into that before even the gut stuff. So usually I'm getting like eight to 10 hours and like I feel good when I wake up and I wake up and I pop out of bed and I'm ready to go. It's just like doing my workouts. I don't feel that energy that I usually have. So low cal. Yeah. And it's your calories are low. So and so you have to reduce the activity so that you have because you're fueling your. Yourself only for so much activity. Are there certain foods or things that you are OK with pushing like you can eat more of certain things? You're like, OK, this doesn't seem to bother me. I've been eating a ton of like just vegetables and fruit in general. And I actually don't get bothered so much by like beans and legumes and stuff. OK. Meat. Sometimes if I eat a lot of it, I'll feel like it's just very heavy. So I like can't eat a ton of it, but I do eat it like every day. It's just like the volume. At one time, which I know I'm trying to get a certain amount of protein. Yeah. So usually it's just any time it's like a really heavy meal. I'm definitely just not eating any gluten. I know that just doesn't sit well with me. But yeah, I feel like I'm. Yeah, I don't know if there's it's hard because I feel like I react just randomly all the time. There's not like a certain trend where I'm like, OK, this for sure. Other than basically gluten. Are you managing histamine? Is that part of this process? We talked about it, but I haven't been doing that recently. It was like a theory. We kind of. I had when I was like, I've been doing this protocol for maybe like three or four months now. And it's like comes and goes in phases. So we discussed it, but I haven't been recently. OK, what about if she's that low a calorie, that clean of food, too? What about like electrolytes? Are you supplementing with like element or anything like that? I'm using like a jigsaw adrenal kind of cocktail thing where I use coconut water. And then I think that has magnesium, potassium and sodium in it. More sodium. Yeah, you'll need sodium, especially if you're eating really clean and you're working out. Yeah. Because she might. I feel a difference just by bumping that up. Yeah. So that's that's not a good. That's not a bad suggestion is maybe adding more sodium. So like a high sodium electrolyte powder elements really good. It's a thousand milligrams. And you would know if it helps pretty quickly. Oh, yeah. You'll know you'll feel energy in your workouts. Yeah. So you would know within a day if that indeed made a difference. I asked you about histamine because bone broth protein powder. So Paleo Valley makes a really good one. I take that every day. OK, good. OK. So you guys. I was like, OK, I'm going to. How does that feel when you take it? Is it OK? I feel fine. Yeah. I don't feel any like no symptoms when I take that. Good. So you can bump that. You can have a higher doses. Yeah. You can bump that up. And then as far as meat is concerned, are you did is it OK for you to add psyllium husk to your diet? This is just the fiber. I've been taking that usually in the morning, just like one teaspoon, I think. So it's not so much. But I usually take that on the empty stomach with kind of my little drink mixtures I take in the morning. So if you take it with supplements, it can actually absorb and block the supplement from getting absorbed. OK. So take separate? Yes. So like if I took psyllium husk with medication, I might not absorb the medication. OK. Take it with meals. Oh, OK. So here's what you do, especially a larger meal. So let's say you're going to push the meat. You're like, OK, I'm going to eat a little more meat than I normally do. When you're done eating your meal, have your teaspoon of psyllium husk with a big glass of water. OK. And in my in my experience with clients who had issues with motility, which is what it sounds like might be one of the issues for you, that I would say 70 percent of the time like made a big difference, like 70 percent of the majority of the people. Yeah. And that's an easy fix, too. So I can definitely do that. Yeah. And so you can literally take a teaspoon with three meals. So with your larger meals, you could do that. And the training, I would cut out what isn't necessary. And out of the things you told me, zone two could be gone because you're already doing all the athletic stuff. And then when you're starting to feel low energy, reduce the intensity. Yeah. Of your workouts so you can manage that a little bit. And then as you're over the last three, four months on this protocol, have you noticed improvements in your gut health? I definitely have it just then like my period will come on or maybe I do not eat something clean. Like, for example, I just traveled and so I flew and I felt awful yesterday. So it just like fluctuates a ton. But I'll have some days where I feel great and then I'll have other days where I'm like, oh, my gosh, it's just like never ending. So it's not all bad. But. It's just enough for I'm like, OK, let me reach out and get a new set of eyes. So let me give you a little tip. OK, so when I when my gut was super reactive, it's not really as reactive now, but when it was super reactive, when I would eat foods out that I knew could potentially cause an issue, I would take activated charcoal. OK, I actually have that as well. I just haven't been taking it. Yeah. And so that tends to absorb, you know, whatever reactive issues that I have. And you can take it with the psyllium, by the way, you could have psyllium with with activated charcoal. And it's. Because if your issue is motility, by the way, if you tend towards constipation, you're a woman. So that's probably where you go. Yeah. So then you would want to take make sure you're consistent with the psyllium because charcoal can also block you up if you take too much of it. Of course. Yeah. OK. So so you I would take both of those. And then as far as the training is concerned, how's your stability been since the rehab? Just like my knee itself. Or. Yeah. When you're training like, yeah. Yeah. I actually have been struggling more with. My knee stiffness. Like, I actually feel quite strong and confident in my knee. I just like when I couldn't. So they didn't have me do any range of motion before. So when I went in to get my first surgery, my range of motion was like seventy five degrees. And they were just like, we can't do this. So I've just had a ton of scar tissue issues when I had the I had a cyclops lesion and then I had scar tissue on the front and then they did a manipulation. So I've had two manipulations. So I'm still like plus or minus. Ten to fifteen degrees. So I actually deal more with like stiffness, which I think is a lot of muscle guarding. Like my hamstring constantly is just like taking battling. So it's not even a stability thing. It's literally just getting my body to freaking relax and like trust that it's not going to snap again, which has been tough. Have you used isometrics? Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Yeah. Yeah. I usually start all my exercises, like my workouts with that. And then even on my recovery days, I do some amount of those. Um, so like, I mean, I feel like I've been trying to do it. Like I've been working with someone online that's like a person, which is a lot better because I'm just the Western, I'm just like off of Western medicine a little bit in a, in the whole thing. So I kind of have like navigated away from that a little bit. So that's helpful. And I have a lot of faith in the programming aspect at least, which is one stressor. That's been nice to not have on my plate. No, that's great. And one of the ways to use isometrics for instability is, uh, you put your knee in a position, like let's say, you know, four to five. You know, flexing my knee, I can get to a certain point. Like, okay, this is about as far angles as I could flex my knee. That's where I would apply the isometric. Yep. So I would try to create safety to my, where my CNS. Yeah. So it's like, it's not just flexing the quad and the hamstring, it's like putting it in the position where it feels unstable. Yeah. Then I apply the isometric for 10 seconds and the rest, and then that can create, cause here's what happens with surgery. So, uh, people think that, um, the issue is once you get everything fixed, you should be fine. But there's, there was trauma there and the body remembers. And so it's like, it's guarding, it's constantly guarding. Oh, guard. Yeah. I've been doing like hypnotherapy even just to be like, you're fine. And it's just been the whole thing. I think it's, it's, that can maybe help. I've looked at the data on that. It's kind of mixed, but I know isometrics are really good at it because what it does is it creates stability in that scary place. 15 degrees. Yeah. From that spot. Yeah. So it's like, if, uh, right here is where my shoulder feels unstable, that's where I'm going to create, uh, the tension. And I'm going to teach my body that that place is okay. Um, and that seems to help, uh, quite a bit when I've worked with clients, but the gut health is the number one thing. But I would, if you're okay with bone broth protein, push that. And when you have the larger meals, add the psyllium husk and that with the, with the big glass of water, and that should help with the, uh, with the motility. I think doing that bump in the sodium and reducing the zone too. I think you should feel a difference right away. Yeah, it should be pretty fast today. So, and I'm going to tell you this right now, Haley, uh, you're actually doing really well. Yeah. You literally tore everything in your knee. There's not a, yeah, I feel like I am like a honorary physical therapist now. Cause I've just, I've had the, like, I actually caught my Cyclops lesion. Cause I was like feeling, I was limping still and stuff. So I'm like researching everything and I'm like looking into all this stuff. So I'm like, I'll probably go into some type of training or medical field after this. Cause I was like, I might as well. I'm halfway there basically. You know what? I tell you what, here's the other thing. Here's the other side of it. And I don't know if this resonates with you, Haley, but when you're a high performing any thing. And it kind of becomes a part of your identity. There's nothing, there's no way to prevent that. Right. So much of your life was dedicated to playing basketball that, uh, it's like, what do I do now? Um, of course, of course, but Hey, uh, what you went through, what you're learning, it could make you a phenomenal corrective exercise specialist, sports medicine specialist for physical therapists. And it could give you that sense of purpose, uh, that you might be kind of missing right now because you're not able to do the thing that you were so good at. Yeah. I thought even like sports psychology, just to like somehow combining those things. Cause I'm like, man, even just day to day, it's so just, I've never experienced an injury before. And I'm like, I can't even like people go through this all the time. Like how do they survive? Like everyone's so strong. And you went through a major one. It's like injuries are one thing. And then like major injuries or no, that's a major injury. Yeah. I didn't even really, I've never thought of it that way. Oh yeah. I'm still in that group of like, we're all injured, but no, no, no, no. They called it was that the terrible triad. Yeah. Yeah. And then they also added in a little LCL and the other one, I don't know what they call that one, but just add that in. Yeah. It could make you a phenomenal person in that space. And I know how important it is to have a sense, like a, something to target in a sense of purpose. And so I just want to encourage you if you kind of feel that go in that direction and you could be a tremendous, very helpful to other athletes that are going through the same thing. I even got chills with you saying that. So yeah, I definitely, it's definitely on my radar now compared to before I was like, oh, I'll just play until I can't. And I'm like, oh shoot, like I can't play. So like, what am I doing now? So it's like definitely giving me that perspective and I think I would really enjoy it and stuff. So like, I appreciate just the guidance towards that direction. Some of the best, some of the best coaches, uh, that I've ever worked with were athletes where their, their, their athletic dreams were kind of taken from them and they became the best. I'd ever seen. So, so you just can, you just, and I'm going to tell you something right now, this is all, you're going to make way more money doing that than trying to play professional women's basketball. Even at this point, I'm like, should I even play again? Like I can just go on a trip for like on my own and not have to be in shape and like watch my diet the whole time. Well, I mean, it's hard to watch my diet cause my stomach keeps me, but like, I'm just like, yeah, I dunno. I want to at least try to like, I've just have it set. Like I need to like, I want the decision. Like, can I play? Like, do I want to play? Want it to be like, no, you can't. So that's kind of where I'm at. But yeah, you're definitely not wrong in anything that you just said. You're doing great. Last thing I would add Haley is if you're, if you're, are you adding any peptides to see if they can help? Cause there's peptides for gut health and for, for you. I actually just started, um, saw my mom sees like a hormone specialist and we just started looking into that, but it is, um, illegal. I don't know, like the FIBA and like the world doping agency. I don't think they're legal. I don't think they're right. That's right. However, I have looked into that because I'm like really willing to try anything. So you sound like a woman of lots of integrity. I'm just going to say something for other people who are listening. They don't know how to, they can't test for those things anyway. But if you decide, but if you decide to just go down the field of correctional exercise or physiotherapy or you know, sports psychologist, then you're totally clear to use them. And BPC one five seven thymus and beta is not just good for healing. It's also phenomenal for gut health. It's why I was like, man, I could do like a little two for one action here. Like it's very tempting. So I'll have to talk with her again. Cause that was her concern. She's like, I don't want to do anything that would jeopardize your career. And I also actually have never been tested as a professional, like knock on wood, but so something to think about. So that is good to know. Cause I really, like, if you look it up, it says they're not allowed, but there's no way to test for them, which is trying to scare us. They are. And then a red light therapy would be the other thing that I've been doing that. Oh, you're good. Yeah. Haley, you would make a great coach. I know. Thank you. You would make me do all the things. Yeah. If you ever, if you want to go in the loop, if you ever get in the coaching route, we hire coaches here at MindPump all the time. I've been doing basketball coaching and training and I've loved it. Um, but I just like, I feel really called to work with like women and like athletes that have like been injured and stuff. Cause I just also think women are generally in the medical field, not understood and not really given the resources and stuff they have. And I've just unfortunately dealt with a lot of the men in this space that have just. Yeah. Been a nightmare. Um, but I love you guys. I listen to you guys all the time. Yeah. No, I'm glad we're the exception to the rule. It feels like this is the beginning of a fork in the road. So keep us in touch. Yeah. No, I definitely agree. And it's actually kind of inspiring, like hearing this perspective from you guys too. So, um, even if I do play, I think I might maybe start some classes or certifications and stuff just cause I might as well, but yeah, no, I like that just feels nice to hear from you guys. Keep us in the loop. Keep us in the loop. Let us know how the psyllium husk helps and, uh, yeah, yeah. Let me know. Yep. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. She's a tough girl. Yeah. I mean, she's got a great attitude. Listen for people listening right now. Yeah. Uh, she tore everything. It's a traumatic, traumatic thing. Terrible triad. Plus one. The only thing she didn't care was her patellar tendon. I'm like trying to think of all the hanging on by a thread. Yeah, dude. Uh, and she, the fact that she's working out and able to do what she's doing yeah. Uh, is exceptional. By the way, she's got a good coach. And I want to add this like gut health, uh, challenges are really common with high level athletes. So that's the other part of it. Losing the period, all that stuff is very common. I wouldn't be surprised if she bumps her sodium. She knows his difference. I think so. I think I was a good call. Cause she's eating so clean and low calorie and doing all that. And then her, her coconut water is not high enough sodium. Yeah. So be really interesting to see what happens if she feels a difference just from that alone. Our next caller is David from Massachusetts. David, how's it going? How you doing David? What's going on guys? How are you? How can we help you man? I'm good. How about yourself? I want to start off first. Talk to Adam. Like I, I was on the show back in April of 24, but this time, you know, Adam, I'm a real big sneaker head and, uh, I know, I think you're a size 12 and all right, good. So anytime you feel like donating those shoes, especially Travis Scott, SB dunks, you can send it to Massachusetts anytime. That's good to know. That's good to know. I got you. One of the reasons why I watch you guys actually on the YouTube. So I can see what you're wearing, right? Oh, wow. That's new. Right on brother. Yeah. Uh, so anyway, so I had, like I said, I previously was a caller on, um, April 24. At that point, I started my strength training journey and that's September, uh, to go back a little bit. I used to be 505 pounds and in, within the past six years, I made a commitment to, to change that. Uh, I wanted to be around for my kids and for myself and my wife. Right. So, uh, so slowly, surely I'm down now to 264, 265 pounds. Wow. Um, all on my own. So the thing is, is that, but I'm plateauing a little bit. So originally when I talked to you and, uh, in 24, I had, um, uh, I was called about, uh, I was getting a lot of nagging injuries. I just started training. Uh, probably wasn't, you know, probably pushing myself a little too hard at first. And then you guys gave me maps 15, which worked out great. Has some elbow tendonitis and forearm pain, you know, you know, those can go on. I fixed all those issues. So now I feel like, so at that time when I talked to you, I was about 294 times 298. So as I said, it was 24 of April. Now as September 26, I'm 264, 268. So I've lost about 20 pounds, but it's been three years almost. And I feel like I'm plateauing. I'm not sure what I can do at this point. I feel like my strength might be, uh, plateauing. My weight loss is plateauing. I just want to see what I can kind of kick drive and get it going again, you know? And then I have a couple other questions, but yeah, that's kind of what the gist of it is guys. How tall are you? I'm about six feet. Yeah. So you're, you're the, I want you to, first of all, when you're getting to a weight now that isn't like too far off, like what would be a great weight. And so it should slow down. Like obviously coming from 500 to where you're at now was probably some, but you now, if we do a good job of building muscle, the scale doesn't move as nearly as fast anymore. So I just want to encourage you. You look really good. And I'm looking at your picture, dude. You're jacked. You're muscular dude. Like you're really jacked, bro. You know what it is? I hate to interrupt. You know what sucks too guys? So I was five Oh five. And when I used to be five Oh five, I had, which is crazy. I had no body dysmorphia. I swear to God, I would get a haircut, call my wife at work and be like, Hey, are you seeing my new hair? I look great. I didn't look great. You know what I mean? I look like, you know what I mean? So now being, you know, you know, I'm straight training for almost three or three years now, actually this month is three years and you know, I have good days and bad days, but I'm telling you, I have the worst body dysmorphia I've ever had in my whole life at this point. Okay. So we're going to address that. That's the most important thing. Okay. David. So let me ask you a question. Sure. If you stayed like this for the rest of your life, okay, you got the muscle, you're strong. I'm assuming, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. Your energy is way through the roof compared to how it was. Your mobility is way through the roof compared to how it was. Your quality of life is way through the roof compared to how it was. What, what's the problem if you just stayed like this now you're not going to, but I want you to just, just put yourself in that mental state. If you stayed like this, what's the issue? Yeah. Geez, I can go. Listen, my, my goal from the beginning of this journey was to hit two 20, I think two 20, almost six feet tall. I think to me, that's an ideal weight for me. It's where that's always been my goal. It still is. Um, like, like you said, Sal, if I was to stay here for the rest of my life, God, sure. I'll take it. I mean, I worked hard to get here and, and, uh, being at five Oh five. Yeah. I have quite a, quite a testimony where I've come from and I have so much more back to my story, but I'm not going to bother you with all that stuff. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I just, I'm curious during this process, um, have you, have we like tried to actually like reverse diet and build? Cause I know it sounds so counterintuitive. Well, you know what? I feel like I, I think I have the, I think I do that on my own periodically anyways. I feel like I'll have some good weeks where I kind of cut down when I'm eating and then a couple of weeks where I kind of, you know, push that up a little bit. So I think I kind of balance it out pretty good. But speaking of stuff, like I can't, I always tell people, people, you know, people look at me and obviously, you know, I had the best problem I ever had in my life recently at the gym. Some guy I've been working with, you know, we just say hi cross paths. And he said to me, Hey man, I just want to let you know, you look great. And he didn't know I came from 505 pounds. So those compliments to me is much better than someone that knows I came from 505 pounds. But anyways, point being, so I tell like, you know, when people ask me, how'd you do it? I tell them to be honest with you. I'll tell you guys, I do like an 80, 20, like 80% good whole foods and the fuel that I need. And then 20% is, you know what I'm saying? Whatever that I feel like having, I'm going out with the family or the friend, you know? Yeah. So David, I'm going to caution you. Okay. Because you're at, you're at a, first off, you got to a place most people don't get to number one. So you got really far, but now you're at a crossroads and I'm gonna tell you something. If you chase 220 with the body dysmorphia attitude, you're not going to be any happier at 220. You'll be less happy. Okay. Now what I'm about to tell you is simultaneously going to make you a happier and also slowly probably continue to improve your health and fitness. And that's this because you've been consistent for three years. Yes. Is now at this time, you just enjoy it. You just enjoy it, bro. When you go to the gym, you try new exercises, you try getting good at them. That's what you do. You have fun with it. You continue to enjoy what you're eating. Don't pay so much close attention to the scale. And I, and I'll be honest, I'm sorry. I'll be honest with you at this point. Did I tell my wife, I'm like, listen, going to the gym now is almost therapy for me, whatever I'm feeling that day or the stress of the life. I walk in those doors and those are gone for the hour. Plus that I'm there. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure they'll come right back when I leave, but for that hour, hour and a half in there, they're gone. And let me tell you something, the getting in shape or feeling better by myself or looking better or whatever the case is, is just a side effect. Now I'll be honest with you. I just turned 50. So it's just, you know, and that's another thing about my programming. Like I do a lot of, uh, my own PPL, my own upper, lower, I'll slip it up. Like right now I'm doing a PPL with an upper. So I don't know. I kind of like both of those things. I know you guys both have programs like that, but that's kind of just let you know what I'm doing there too. You're at such a good place right now that you could admit you have like an 80, 20 rule, 80% time you dial the other 20. You sounds like you enjoy yourself and you've been able to lift weights, be strong. You love working out. You want, and if, if we want another level, if I was training you and coaching you, there's, there's things that we can tweak, but I think what set the point Sal's making, if you let the body dysmorphia drive you to that number, you'll reach that number and you'll still be unhappy. And the things that you do to get that, that, that number may make you unhappy. And the rebound is a real possibility. If you do it that way, Right. But there's definitely things that we can do to tighten it up. And the question just becomes, do you, do you really want to do it that bad? Because if I would want to put you in a revert, a controlled reverse diet where we are still dieting, but we're doing it with the intent of adding calories strategically to build muscle, not by the whim of the week. Now that that's how you should live in my opinion. That's how I live. I live in 80, 20 type of role. I'm not tracking. I'm not calculating. I'm not reverse dieting. I have good weeks where I'm dialed. I'm eating whole foods and low calories. I'm not tracking. I'm not calculating. I'm always have other weeks where I'm vacationing, enjoying and eating a little bit over. And it keeps me about where I'm at. But if I want to make moves, I got Cabo in three weeks and I want to start to see a difference. Now I got to die, really dial it in. And you're two 60 to two to two 20 range for guy. Who's where you're already at. It's dialing it in now. And you just gotta ask yourself, do you, do you want that? And here's look, you know what you are, David, you're the perfect client. Have you thought about working with a coach to go from here to where you want to go? I have in the past, but I'm being honest with you financially at this point, I probably couldn't do it. So I'll just be honest with you guys right now. So I think that's something that's in the back burner. I have two kids in college and all that good stuff, you know? No, I get it. No, no, I get it. So listen, here's, here's, here's what you should do. What Adam's saying is you could dial in that 20% a little bit and you'll see some movement. Okay. So you could definitely dial it in, but what I want you to do is focus on performance. I don't want you to focus on the scale and you can focus on strength. You could focus on mobility. You could focus on a new exercise, a different kind of routine. It sounds like you've done a lot of bodybuilding style routines. So you could try, you could try us. They could try map symmetry, which would be very different. That's all time. It would be good for him. If you'd like to get strong, you can try a map strong, which has got strong man type exercises, old timey, which has got some exercise guarantee you've never done before. And just be honest. I don't mean to interrupt, but like, I'll be honest about that too. Is that, so I had a, uh, my goblet removed. And then shortly after my surge, my general surgeon, I performed, they said, after six weeks, you're good to go. I said, well, I do strength training. I lift heavy weight. Oh no, you're fine. Six weeks. You're ready. I go. Okay. So I was dying to get back in the gym six weeks on the dog. I went right back in there. Sure enough from dead lifting, I got a incisional hernia. So it's, so this has been almost a year now that I've had the surgery, but I can still feel a little bit of, um, a tightness there when I kind of push it a little bit. So I get nervous with that, with big compound movements. Now I'll be honest. Two things, David, I'm going to send you map symmetry. Yeah. I want you to follow, especially after what you just said, follow map symmetry. It's different than what you did and it will shape and sculpt your body, uh, invisible ways. Okay. For sure. Especially if you, if you've never trained in that way before. So I'm going to send you map symmetry and then if diet wise, I like what you're doing, bro. Honest, my advice to you is just keep going. But if you want to see a little bit of movement, it's the 20%. It's that 20%. And what you got to do is make it 10. That's it. Just go 90, 10, 90, 10. We'll get you, uh, we'll get things to move. Good rule that helps me when I'm, when I'm trying to go from there is that when you are, when you're not perfect, right? So you have your, your great weeks where you're dialed everything on the weeks that I'm maybe more flexible. I make a rule to myself that I at least have to hit my protein first before I allow myself to have that X, Y, Z thing that tends to really pull it back quite a bit versus this is my 20% where I'm just enjoying myself. I'll eat the French fries first, or I'll do this. Like, no, it's like, I still got to get the protein first. And then I'll enjoy the food tends to, to, to tailor. So I do this similar thing to Adam. The other thing that I'll do is when I go eat the thing that isn't, you know, uh, part of my healthy food, I go get my dessert, let's say, and then I eat half of it. So I go, this is what I would normally, I'm going to go half. So now what I've done is I've taken, I've now cut it in half and I do that consistently. And I always see, uh, drop some body fat percentage just by doing that alone. When you guys think about adding some cardio, is that something that I should you think about? That's totally fine. How's your daily steps? Do you any, do you track your days? Oh, geez. I honestly, it's, it's high. I get 10 to 15,000 steps a day. I go to the gym. I do a bunch of stuff, you know, a bunch of errands, running around, doing things, walking the dog, you name it. By the end of the night, I'm usually never less than 10. If you add anything, if you feel recovered and you're feeling strong, you're falling map symmetry. Uh, what you could do is add a performance style of cardio. So like a 12 minute hit session once a week, don't worry about the calorie burn. It's just to build your stamina. That would be the only thing that I would say you could add. Otherwise your steps are great. Yeah. You're moving. You're moving enough that I would be okay there. And then to Sal's point, if you want to build some stamina, I do that. Um, but th uh, this is going to be through program. Also you, you said something like you kind of run your own thing and you have an 80, 20 on the diet. Those two things for me as a coach, I hear is the huge opportunity. Like there, trust me, there's something to like follow symmetry to a T don't do your own thing. We know what we're doing. Don't add, don't add shit. When you feel like you could do more follow symmetry to a T. Trust the process. So trust in us that w that we got you there and then, and then take the little bit of advice on the diet thing. And that'll help. That'll be it. A few, just a couple of questions. You guys don't mind. Yeah, go ahead. One, if you want to throw in the PPL program with it, I'm cool with that. So the other thing, so protein timing, is there such a thing? Protein timing? No. It makes, it really makes no difference. Yeah. It's all about digestion. Uh, the only time protein time, it makes a difference is by eating it first in the meal for satiety. So when you eat a meal, eat the protein first. That's the timing that I focus on. And, and what's far more important than the time that you eat it in regards to when you worked out or what part of the day, it's more important that you just hit it every day, every day. Cause it, and this is consistently, people don't understand this. It's different than carbs and fats. So if you have like a day where you had 230 grams of protein, and then the next day where you hit one 50, it's not the average of the two. You hit, you hit it on one day. You failed, you failed the second day. So you got to have that mindset. Going into every day. You got to hit it. Right. That's the, I find that to be a problem too, because a lot of times on the weekends, for some reasons, I don't go to the gyms on the week. I go four days to the gym. I go Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, that's usually my schedule. And on the weekends, I usually fast. So I'll fast an average of 16 hours on Saturday and Sunday, especially I go to church. And then sometimes it's even longer on Sunday. Sometimes it's not, it's 18, 19 hours. So that's why I know I'm definitely not getting the protein. There's our opportunity right there. Easy fix. Just fast on one of those days, make the other one consistent. All right. That's it. And then, oh, the one other question when it comes to the supplement, what's you guys top five supplements slash vitamins you would recommend? I'm just curious. Yeah. Multivitamin vitamin D three, omega-3 fatty acids that are high in EPA and crazy. All right. That's all right. So that's all checked off then. And then you guys, do you guys have a recipe book on the website by any chance or something that maybe I can maybe look into something a little bit more when it comes to changing my food. Okay. So I liked, um, Shawn Stevenson's cookbook is awesome. Oh yeah. Uh, look up Shawn Stevenson's He was on our show and talked about it. um look at look his up he's got a lot of really good healthy recipes in there all right well you know what that's pretty much it you know like i said uh this has been quite a journey i i've never thought you know i'd be my wife used to tell me you know i know you would love if you started working out in straight training i'm like yeah yeah and i had a little fear i think a lot of thing people have that fear especially being 505 pounds going to gym not knowing what you're doing and but now geez if i miss a day yeah a lot of you think you guys talk about that that that mental part of it now i struggle not to go so it's like awesome you know so it wasn't to me i go every day what a success story david yeah yeah phenomenal bro phenomenal great job dude phenomenal great job and to do it i really appreciate and to do on your own is very impressive i appreciate it guys i really do and i'll be honest with you you guys have uh guided me a little bit on the way these past three years since i caught your podcast i love listening to you guys you guys are pretty cool and uh yeah that's all i gotta say you guys are pretty cool man god bless you david thank you keep me up yeah god bless you thank you guys very much take it easy brother don't forget to subscribe to my channel and i'll see you next time bye bye oh cut him off hey oh we forgot what what is it bro he's jacked yeah yeah i know he's doing that picture he sent was jack dude well i mean he he but he's getting here's the thing it's hard to be that consistent number one but if you are then you start to hit run to this hurdle of what's the next goal yeah what's the next thing yeah and the body how do i drive forward yeah and at that point it's a trend there is a transition and the transition turns into now i do it because well this is such an interesting thing and i'm glad you you you really called him out on the body dysmorphia thing and how that will even when you reach your problem because to be able to be at 80 20 you're eating right bro he's living great and he's uh fasting on the weekends for hours so he's definitely not hitting protein there he's kind of doing his own routine he's kind of modifying things that he's learned i mean there's plenty of room enjoying it yeah exactly it's like you don't want to really change that because it's it's proven you're not going to enjoy it if you he's kept he's kept it for three years that way and if he just keeps going over three years he'll make he'll make he's going to be a good guy he's going to be a good guy he's going to be a good guy yeah it's just slower now because he's closer to where he should be body body weight wise he's a six foot he said i could tell i could tell he's big bone too you can tell by his calves and his ankles he said 220 but as the picture he sent flexing i'm like bro you're at 240 would be lean yeah for you you know what i mean maybe that's what i mean he's not he's not far off from where he should be anyways and to be able to have that flexibility has it's like okay well yeah we could we can turn some knobs out it all happened but will it really make you happy if you was my client again well here's exactly what i would do is i would talk him off the ledge of trying to do many major changes and i'd be like we're just gonna have fun bro yep we're gonna have fun and we're gonna make this fun find something for you and we're gonna turn this into engaged permanent thing yep our next caller is heather from minnesota hey welcome back hey fellas did do we have the race did it go did you do it i did not finish oh wow i'm not gonna i'm not gonna cry okay maybe i might cry um i made this up i'm not gonna cry i'm not gonna cry okay maybe i might cry i'm not gonna cry okay maybe i might cry okay maybe i might cry i'm not gonna cry okay maybe i might cry okay maybe i might cry okay maybe um and here's what happens and this is so this is the third time this has happened during a race and you guys are great coaches and we've worked with a lot of athletes so maybe you'll have some insight for me um so i just i started off the race really thirsty like just plowing through water and it was hot and humid but i've trained a lot in hot and humid weather and just drinking drinking lots of water and then i go to pee and i can't pee i'm not peeing um i had electrolytes i love lmnt i love their watermelon salt it's my favorite um so electrolytes water drinking drinking drinking and then like i just have that feeling like you would have if you had a urinary tract infection like you have to pee but you're not peeing and then by mile okay i'm not gonna cry by mile 36 um i stopped to use uh the restroom and i was peeing blood and then um it took me about a mile to come to my senses uh to realize my race was over and so i had to backtrack so i ended up getting 38 miles um and quit quit the race um this has happened to me in two other races um one race i ended up finishing it because i didn't realize what the issue was it was the first time and it was also hot and humid and that race was um 68 miles it was 100k so somewhere around in there and then the other race was the arrowhead 135 which was minus 20 degrees so nothing at all to do with hot and humidity um and that one ultimately i also um stopped at mile 38 so i don't i don't know what's going on i went to the doctor yesterday and um tested for uti it was negative same as the last two times um this is a new doctor and um she's like well i think we should do an ultrasound on your kidneys and your bladder to see what's going on to see if there's something um and i'm like well i don't know what's going on and i'm like well i don't know what's going on you know structurally maybe a cyst or kidney stones i don't know just gonna start crossing things off the list to figure out uh what's going on here because i i feel like it's not probably just a ultra running issue this could be something that you know maybe it's just a larger medical issue overall so heather has this ever happened to you when not doing a race it's never happened in training and that's really interesting because i've had some juicy training this summer i went out to colorado and climbed a couple of 14ers one was a nine hour day and it was really hot like you get to the peak and you're still in your sports bra because it was hot um very strenuous no problems all i've had other races and this is all within the last two years i've had other races within the last two years where i've not have problems so i don't know i you know i'm like is it something i'm eating is it something i'm drinking is it something i'm doing on a race day that i'm not doing in training kind of just making a list of all the things um and gonna just start crossing them off did they test do they test your ck levels your when you're post training to see if they're really elevated um ck what's what's that so like it's a it's a marker of muscle damage so okay and if it's too high they'll put they'll give you um fluids and sometimes dialysis so i don't know if you've ever when you get your blood tests they typically will test that okay um and so i would look at markers of muscle damage okay see if anything's going on there in extreme cases it can show up um as blood i like that you're doing the ultrasound to see if there's anything structural uh one other thing too heather and you know you don't have to answer this if you don't want to but because you're you're obviously you're getting teared up um and because you had this goal weren't able to do it what is what does that say to you about your identity uh when something like that happens because it's obviously it's attached to something and you didn't do it and it's very painful what is that telling you about you i think it's a couple of things you know it's um when you i train really hard i get up early and in the in the morning to train i've got two teenagers that are 17 and 15 so i try not to let my you know crazy hobby interfere with their lives um and so yeah i had four friends waiting for me in a camper that they were going to pace me for this so i feel like i i let them down and deprive them of of a little bit of adventure um i don't i think for me it's always the adventure of it it's not necessarily i love i love training um i love picking out different adventures to make it a part of my you know overall training plan and so i think as long as i can you know have adventure in my life and and go on fun camping trips and backpacking trips and hiking trips um if the doctors come back and are like well you know you're done doing ultra marathons it's just not uh in the picture i i'll i'll find a way to i think get those same feelings because it's a for me it's a lot about camaraderie my girlfriends and i kind of how you guys sit and talk with one another we have those same conversations at 8 30 in the morning we solve all the world's problems we get together we go to the gym together we go on it's those friendships that i have built with those girlfriends so i think there are other ways to go about having that those same feels um yeah it's just disappointing of course yeah of course because it's the training the adventure it's all great but there's something about the competition uh that i'm i'm trying to point to a little bit because you can get you can get all those things without that you can get all you can get the adventure you can get the camaraderie you can get the outdoors you can get all of that and not do all the other things you can get all of ultra marathon i've been in sports my whole life i i love to compete i like to do hard things um i can't imagine not participating in a sport i i i just i enjoy it i enjoy the camaraderie um of course joy uh of course this is the hard part of um tying your identity to something that at some point eventually will stop i mean you still can do it but in 20 years you're not going to be able to do it because that's just how it works right so the suggestion i have for you and forgive me if this is a too forward but someone like you who's done these things who has such and does a good job at them and you're tougher than 99 of the people in the world for doing them uh a sports psychologist i think would be really beneficial for you and it could help you compete it actually could help you yeah this is what sports psychologists work with part of it is that identity in this thing and if it doesn't go the way i anticipate I'm devastated, even though I still train, even though I get to do all these things, even though I'm still, it's like, what is it about this that devastates me so much? By the way, I can identify with a certain, uh, with, with, with some of this. Um, and I've worked with people where this has been a real struggle and a sports psychologist, they do a phenomenal job and it could make this more enjoyable for you. Sure. Yeah. I have, I've spoke with a sports psychologist before we, um, cause I, I had mentioned the winter ultra marathons. That's kind of my jam. I love them. Yeah. Um, and we put on a clinic, um, every winter, um, for just women and we comes, she's a sports, uh, psychologist and she comes and she talks to us about, um, all sorts of things every year. It's been a, been a different, a different topic. I don't know that ultra racing is my identity though. I don't, I don't think I want to put myself in that box. It's because I, there's so many other things if I were to say, what's my identity, probably being a mom is number one. Um, and you know, I think I had mentioned in my email, I'm not, I don't have a winter race signed up this year for the first time in six years, I'm not doing a winter race. My son is 17, he's going to be 18, he's graduating this year and I don't have that mental bandwidth to be able to focus on a race plan and, you know, be a thousand percent present for him and his seniors. Yeah. As he's, you know, looking at colleges and scholarships and all of, and all of the things. So I don't, I don't know that I want to put myself in just that, that box that it's, I think it's, uh, I put myself in the adventure box first. Yeah. That's good. Have you, have you thought about coaching other people? Um, I did, I did a little bit of coaching in college. I played rugby for UMD and so I did a little bit of post college. I did, I did do a little bit of coaching. But, you know, maybe when my kids are, are both out of the household, um, I, that's something that I would, I would consider. Um, I, I do, I do love sports. I participate in a wide variety of, of sports and always have my whole life. So I love watching sports. Um, I think coaching would be a lot of fun. I think you'd make an excellent coach. I think a one-on-one coach you'd make really, you'd do really well too. There's a lot of young ladies out there that want to be able to do what you do that could use some of your time. Um, I think you'd make a really, really good coach. I think you'd make a really, really good coach. With your, uh, with your experience for sure. As far as training is concerned, uh, with all of the other stuff that you do, that the 15 protocol, all the 15 programs are perfect for you. I'm really curious to see what the ultrasounds say about your kidneys. Cause that is a very interesting thing that happens. It's interesting to me is I almost want to connect it to the damage from training, but what's weird is it doesn't happen during your training. It only happens during competition. So it's almost, it's either like crazy timing. Or there's a connection to the training. Yeah. And I, I wonder, like, I don't know, I've tossed around a thousand different ideas really in my head and my girlfriends too, um, who train with me and who go on adventures with me, um, maybe nerves, the race morning, maybe I'm, you know, maybe I'm just having coffee and need to focus on like, put the coffee down, just have water. And maybe there's something with electrolytes and coffee. And I'm like, I'm going to go get coffee and irritating my bladder right away. When I first went to the doctor after it happened in that 100 K, they called it slapping bladder, slender, which slapping bladder sounds like a nineties alternative rock battle. It made me laugh. So, um, and I had finished that race, but I really did not feel good for several days. So I don't, I'm not buying slapping bladder. I don't, I'm not. Yeah. Cause I feel like that would happen. And that's, and that correct me if I'm wrong, that's from the, the constant jarring motion that can cause. Okay. So how much, how much rest leading up to the competition? Like the week before, do you shut it down completely? I do. I did. I do shut it down when I'll, I'll do a little, you know, light jog and just do some pickups, you know? Um, so I'll do like the most I'll do. I think that week was 45 minutes, um, at a 13 minute mile pace on a pretty flat trail. So I really shut it down. I did not do any of the, um, the 15 minute workouts that week. My last one, I think was that Friday before. Um, I definitely love day seven with just the mobility with the landmine and then the, the legs, um, and then the walking like good morning sunshines or whatever they're called. Um, so that, that, I mean, fitting that in is nothing. I'm very, I'm very, very curious to see what the ultrasound says. Cause it could be, it could be kidney. It could be the tube to connect to, to the urinary tract. There could be something structurally there. Right. Um, which I would, I would also, I'm also kind of pointing in that direction. Muscle damage is the other one, but I, but that's weird because it doesn't happen when you're training really hard outside of competition, which is really strange. You wouldn't typically see it. Uh, you, you would have seen it at least once. And that's my guess. That's my guess. I'm really interested to see what the ultrasound shows. Me too. Uh, fingers crossed that it's, you know, I don't know. It's a silly hobby of mine, ultra running. And if I have to, you know, stop doing it, so be it. I'll, you know, figure out something else in, in, in life. Um, just adventures. Um, so I don't know. Are your friends running with you or are they just the train supporting you or is it like, so I have a friend. I have a couple of other crazy friends that also do the 100s. Um, and then I have some friends that just enjoy running. Um, we call ourselves the damn, damn names cause we meet from a dam. Um, and we meet at five 30 in the morning and they're just, they're just the best bunch of girlfriends you girl could ever ask for. They're just, you know, support you through highs and lows running, not running. Um, several of us have kids the same age. We're just, you know, uh, the bond that you build with your friends doing a support is so different, um, and so special. And I, I just, I'm the luckiest. I keep feeling, I keep feeling like I got to push this, but I think you would make such a great coach. I know. Yeah. I think you would get more, you would get more yourself into somebody. Yeah. And I think you would get so much out of coaching someone else with, uh, all the knowledge and expertise and wisdom you have around it. You would still train and do your own training. Yeah. But I think you would make a phenomenal coach. Yeah. You just take one person. Yeah. Think about it. Think about it. I know it brings so much joy to, I know it did for me and I know people that have done this who were, it's a great transition to, to, you know, stepping from athlete to coach. It's, it's a big deal. You know, it's, it's a new identity shift, but it really helps. I think with that, um, you know, you know, creating that and then pouring it into somebody else and seeing them thrive in it. Yeah. I've always said my a goal is to be able to sit in a canoe when I'm 80 years old and go into the boundary waters on a, on a canoe camping trip. And so if ever my racing were to interfere with that, a goal of sitting in a canoe when I'm 80 with hopefully some grandchildren, um, you know, that I, I, I, I am shocked at the suggestion of coaching, but I really love it. I think that would be a great way to continue in a sport that I love. I think if you put yourself out in that community, you would have a bunch of young ladies who would look at someone like you, who's done it a bunch of times and they'd be like, please coach me. I would hire you. It would be fun. I would hire you. Wow. I was going to come up with a name for you guys. Slap, slap, slap, slap, slap, slap, slap, slap, slap, slap, slap, slap, slap, slap, slap. Hey, wait, if you could keep us posted on what the ultrasound show, cause I'm very curious. I would do that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you. Thank you so much for the, for the program. I really, uh, I, it definitely, I, the, the workload was just perfect and I really enjoy it. Um, the Turkish get ups, you can have them. I absolutely hated the Turkish get ups. It's a bit of a grind. Yeah. But everything else. And I'm, so I'm on phase two, um, I'm on the second week I think is where I'm at right now. Um, let me send you another one. Let me send you another mass 15. We gave you performance, right? Yeah. Well, I was thinking, I think I wrote in the email that, um, I'm not planning on any racing and I'm really honestly not planning on any mileage more than 20 miles a week. Um, and I, I do miss a little bit of my girlfriend time in the gym. And so if, if, if you, if you're in the gym, you're going to miss a little bit of your time, do you think there would be something that I could still do 20 miles, but get like an hour in the gym with my girlfriend? Just keep, just keep in mind, 20 miles is still a decent amount of running. Yeah, dude. I know that sounds like nothing to you, but that, I think I ran 20 miles in the, for between 2010 and now. Yeah. So let me, let me do this. 15 is a great protocol for you. Yeah. I like, I like mass 15 symmetry. So let me send that to you. Oh, wow. Okay. Awesome. You got it. Keep us posted. We'll keep working through this. And, uh, thank you guys so much. I love your podcast and I'm a devote, uh, listener and, um, I'll keep you posted. Thank you. Appreciate you. All right. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye. Yeah. That's, that's so tough because, uh, she was, she's good at what she does better than most people. And it, and then to see that, Oh, I got to stop. And so there is an identity aspect. Oh God, bro. It's, I have, I struggle with, uh, you know, I know cause I don't have the time to build a relationship. because the normal me has. I mean do we really need the doctor to let us know yeah do we really need the doctor to let us know whether we should stop this or not your body's talking to you yeah no this isn't one time this is the third time it's happened in competition I don't give a shit what he says yeah it's it's time to hang up the hundred miles yeah um and I just you know I don't have the relationship with her to be able to speak to her that bluntly but if if you can't see that and you have a problem with that still you absolutely have identified as this this it's hard to let go man yeah because there is a you can build relationships you can do hikes you can explore the outdoors there are many very healthy ways to go after and pursue all those things and let me be very clear running hundred miles are not healthy no there's nothing healthy about extreme nothing healthy about it it's bad for your joints it's bad for your kidneys it's stressful on the body it's extremely extreme extreme in any physical pursuit there's no longevity in it and it's exactly and it's crazy enough to try and do it one time to say you did it to make that a thing you do on a regular is very unhealthy and if you're if you say your ultimate goal is canoeing with your grandchildren in your 80s that is not the route to go that's right it is and so if you work backwards from that because I love that goal I love the idea of being identifying as as a mother first and I my main goal is to be 80 and canoeing then this is not the approach there is a far better approach to this and in fact that's the fastest way to probably not be able to do no 100 which is why I was pushing her to redirect it you can't just take you can't just take something away no of course like that so that's why I couldn't say I can't I would not say that to her right without us coaching with each other for a long time but if she coached somebody yeah oh my god she would get great great uh sense of purpose and fulfillment out of it yeah look if you like the show come find us on instagram it's mind pump media we'll see you there thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com the rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sal adam and justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the rgb super bundle is like having sal adam and justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price the rgb super bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on itunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family we thank you for your support and until next time this is mind pump