740: Why You’re Bloated, Gaining Weight & Feeling Off in Menopause (It Starts in Your Gut) with Cynthia Thurlow

[MUSIC PLAYING] People are like, I don't recognize my body. I don't fit my clothes. We get to live this big life if we're really mindful about protecting our resilience. It's important to understand there are things we can control, like whether we choose to smoke, whether we drink alcohol. I know the guts plan such a big role, and I also think the brain has planned a big role here, and hormones are just doing what they're doing, you know? Everyone is surprised to know how important that microbiome is. There's always so much, the kind of the fiber conversation. I'm like, why is fiber under attack? Welcome back to the Energized with Dr. Marisa Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Marisa. And I'm here to help you rock your hormones, optimize your metabolic health, and feel energized in your body, so that you can age powerfully and wake up feeling amazing in your body for many years to come. Let's jump on in. How often are you connecting the dots between your menopause symptoms and your gut health? I have a feeling that you're not, because it's not something that we talk about when it comes to perimenopause and menopause. But when you think about your gut, and how it directly impacts your hormones, your energy, your weight, and how you feel every single day, it's no wonder it is playing such a big role in the symptoms that we're experiencing. I'm talking about bloating, weight gain, food sensitivities, fatigue that simply doesn't make sense. I know that often when you go to your doctor, you're told, if you're told at all, that it's just your hormones. But what if your gut is actually one of the biggest drivers behind what is happening? And even more importantly, what if one of the most powerful places to start turning things around is your gut? Well, that's exactly what we're diving into today. I'm joined by one of my dearest friends, Cynthia Thurlow, who was a leading expert in intermittent fasting and metabolic health, along with gut health, and she is bringing a new powerful conversation to the forefront with her upcoming book, The Menopause Gut. In this incredible conversation, we're gonna talk about the gut hormone connection in midlife, but also Cynthia's personal journey through parimenopause and menopause, and the key pillars that truly move the needle when it comes to feeling more like yourself again. This is a grounded, real and incredibly practical conversation for any woman navigating midlife right now. Let's dive in. (upbeat music) Cynthia Honey, welcome back to the Energized Podcast. We have had many conversations about midlife and menopause, and what I wanna kick us off today is really around boundaries. And I feel like this is the lesson for the ages. It's the lesson that we really get to lock in when we are in this transition, because if we don't, I feel like our bodies respond in a not so positive favor. I wanna just hear a little bit about what has been your journey around boundaries, not only for family, but also for obligations, for things that you were just a yes or no to. - Yeah, such an important way to start the conversation with Ritesun. Thank you again for having me. Such an honor to connect with your community. I think when we're talking about boundaries, we're really talking about respecting ourselves. And for so many of us that grew up in households where people pleasing became the way that you adapted to an environment that was not entirely healthy or consistent. For me, people pleasing has been such a large part of the trajectory of my childhood, young adulthood, middle aged. And it's amazing the amount of clarity that we receive as we start navigating this paramanopause transition because all of a sudden, the hormones, the neurotransmitters that facilitate and support that kind of behavior where you're subjugating your own needs, they start to change. And all of a sudden, you start to find your true voice. And I'll give you a really good example. So almost 10 years ago, I left traditional alopathic medicine. I worked for 16 years in clinical cardiology as an NP, four years as an ER nurse and our city Baltimore. And for me, probably 11 years ago, I started to kind of get this itch. I could not scratch. I kept trying to suppress it. I was like, you know, I can go to work. And I'm very evidence-based. And I take really good care of my patients, but I don't feel like this isn't full alignment with what I'm most interested in. I really want to focus on lifestyle as medicine. And so for me, kind of the first step into acknowledging that I was not honoring not only my true potential, but also honoring my own needs for boundaries was continuing to work in an environment that I just felt was no longer satisfying my intellectual needs. And quite frankly, and frankly, 10 years ago, traditional alopathic medicine is not what it is today. And so things have evolved, I think, in a really positive way. But I started finding that I no longer wanted to cow-touch. You might mail centric colleagues who would sometimes not agree with what I wanted to do with a patient. And let me be very clear, depending on your state, nurse practitioners can be fully autonomous or they can be autonomous. And at that time, we were not fully autonomous. So the way that the structure was, I would create a plan. I would put things in motion. And the physician ultimately would have the choice, yay or nay, to agree with what I was doing. But in many instances, I started to speak up. And I would say, well, I respect your opinion, but, and then I would explain myself. Or I would be in a work environment. And of course, the one thing being in medicine is that there's always going to be more work. You could stay 24/7. You still wouldn't do all the work. And a various older female cardiologist said to me one time, Cynthia, just remember, you could stay here all day and all night and there would still be more work. And so I started getting clear about not picking up extra shifts, not working extra weekends, not working extra call around holidays, really prioritizing my children and my family. And it felt energetically like it was cracked, but there was so much pressure from my peers to just pick up more shifts and do more work. And let me be clear, it wasn't a lack of wanting to do more work. It was just this is not respecting my primary responsibility as which is to my children. What the time, 10 years ago, were 8 and 10. So they weren't even pre-teens yet. They were kind of stepping into that. No. And so when I think about boundaries, you know, there's boundaries around work. There's boundaries with your family and friends. And so I started going out less. I'm an introvert. And I didn't feel the need to go to these mom nights out or as much social stuff. I certainly have gotten clear about boundaries around family members. And I think that ultimately my kids know that I have a look on my face. They're like, don't do it. Don't do it. You can't help but share your opinion. And I was like, there's so many ways to share your opinion that are both respectful and also honoring how you feel about things, whether it's a, you know, dealing with a vendor, retailer, et cetera. There's a way to do it. But I no longer can keep silent. And so I feel like one of the gifts of middle age is my own acknowledgement that I'm no longer suppressing what I really want to be doing. And I'm no longer accepting the unacceptable. And I think for a lot of women, especially those of us that were former people, please, there's that are now reformed, it becomes something that is such a true gift. And in many ways is a new version of me and even better, more assertive, more confident, clearer version of myself than I ever was before. Like I was looking at pictures from 2016, right before we started recording. And to be totally transparent, I was like, who is that person? Because 10 years ago, I don't recognize who I was because I've changed so much over the past 10 years and certainly in great ways. But I'm sure for a lot of listeners, they're probably struggling with the same things that they feel like they can't not share their opinion or they can't not be very clear about what is acceptable, what is not acceptable. We know as an example, that 70% of the divorces are initiated by women and who's to say that this is a time in a woman's life where they might not get utter clarity about what is working well for them, whether it's leaving a job, leaving a marriage or a partnership, choosing to move. There's so many things that we have the ability to change at this time in our lives. It's not all a negative thing. I think this is clearly one of the most important lessons that we learn in middle ages. Gotta speak up for yourself, because no one also do it for you. - I think you bring up a really important point. One, I just wanna celebrate you in the transformation you've made over the last decade. In deciding that something didn't feel in alignment and listening to that inner voice that just kept persisting for you. And being in this transition for many of us, it's not just a blip in time or months in time. We're talking many, many years. And for you going from cardiology into more functional medicine, even into gut health, curious, what did that whole journey look like for you, Cynthia? And more so, I think it's important to note that, you're right, this is just the middle of the journey. And knowing that for you, how did you kind of stand on those hard one successes and lessons to catapult yourself to today? - I would say that success is not a straight line. For anyone that's listening that thinks it's a straight line, you go from A to B, that is such a rarity. If that happens for someone, that is the rarity. And so I have dogmatically pursued what I'm interested in and then things have kind of fallen into place. So to back up in 2015, I started doing a functional integrative nutrition program and I was like, wow, I'm really lit up on this lifestyle piece. I think this is a missing element to the conversations that I'm having with patients, like so much of what you see in cardiology is really a reflection. of poor metabolic health, and what if I could get my patients to sleep more, manage their stress better, choose a different nutritional regimen and exercise. And in Washington, DC, which is where I lived, it's a pressure cooker. It's a very stressful environment. It's expensive to live there. So people have pressures from every end. Kids feel pressured from the school environment. There's very much a multi-purpose top down pressure. And so initially, I was like, I'm interested in food. And then it evolved into, I want to represent a very underrepresented population, which are middle aged women, because that is what I was dealing with. I was a woman in Perry, Menopause, and no one prepared me for it. And so I kind of fell into creating programs for women in Perry, Menopause, and Menopause, and that transitioned to one-on-one work. And then it bled into doing a TED talk, and then it bled to them. And then it bled into other opportunities that kind of fell into my path. But, you know, metabolic health, gut health have always been things I've talked about, because it's such a vital component of the success we perceive, or we don't perceive in middle age. And let me be really clear. Ten years ago, little to no information was out there about Perry, Menopause, and Menopause. So I applaud people like yourself and so many others that are just bringing greater awareness to the needs of middle-aged women, but also doing so from a place of authenticity. Like, I always share. In fact, I was looking at photos from 2016, and I was like, I look really inflamed. I look puffy. And it's because I was in the thick of, you know, it was 44. I was very inflamed. I had very heavy menstrual cycles. I wasn't sleeping well. I wasn't managing my stress. Obviously, hear me talk about I had young kids. I had a really stressful job. My husband did a ton of international travel. I probably exercised too hard. I probably recovered not enough. I probably was too low-carb. There's so many things that I can look back at now. And I'm like, oh, this is why this happened. And so my kind of trajectory of my Perry, Menopause, journey was so aligned with so many other women that I was able to transparently share what I was going through and what were my pain points and what are the things that I know have been effective for women. And so I very humbly sit back and it's hard for me to process. It's been 10 years, but 10 years of really serving women in Perry, Menopause, and Menopause has been the greatest honor of my professional career. Notice that I don't say my entire life because the greatest joy for me is having two very happy, healthy, well-adjusted young men and a happy, healthy marriage of 23 years. I take great pride in that because that is not the way that I grew up. And I really had to put a lot of work and effort to ensure that my kids and my husband and I were raised and grew up differently. I say growing up 23 years of one person, you'd you grew up together, but ensuring that I was making different choices for all of us. I'm so glad you brought that up because I feel like when we are here being experts on a topic like Menopause Gut Health or talking about metabolic health or hormone replacement therapy or whatever the topics are that we tend to not to highlight what's going on behind the scenes. The fact that we are really holding up our family unit, we are holding up relationships, we are affecting community around us all while moving this mission forward, whatever that mission may be. So I just want to I want to celebrate you on that as well because I don't think we get celebrated enough. I feel like we just become these talking heads as experts and that there's so much that's going on behind the scenes that many people never get to see. Thank you. No, I think that my family is my greatest blessing, truly. Like all the success in the world is that's great, but ultimately the glue that holds me altogether as a human being is my family and my husband and children. And so I think that so many women feel like their bodies make no sense to them anymore in Perry Menopause. They're not sleeping well. They don't feel good. They're weight loss resistant. They can't manage their stress well. They're waking up, drenched in, you know, sweats. They're feeling like the foods they used to eat don't longer agree with them. If they're still getting a cycle, they're like, what in the heck is going on? You know, there's so much conflicting information. It can be very noisy time in the space. I think obviously, as I've said, there wasn't nearly as much information 10 years ago as there is now. But I think that, you know, women in middle age can sometimes be, I hate to say it this way, but I think that most of the people in this space are doing really good, very important work. But there's a degree of predatory marketing that's out there for women at this stage of life. We hit some vulnerable time. People are like, I don't recognize my body. The physician nurse practitioner, PA, whomever I'm seeing, is telling me that this is just the way things are. And so I hope everyone listening finds subtle ways to be able to honor, you know, your new body and the word pause, whether it's perimenopause or menopause is really designed to force us to reflect on what is working for us at this stage of life and what is not. And that could be small things. That could be big things. But it's determining for ourselves what works and what doesn't work without outside of influence. I think again, we go back to this advocacy piece, this piece of creating boundaries and making sure that we're emotionally where we need to be to be able to make good decisions and not make decisions out of fear and not make decisions out of a scare city mindset. I agree with you wholeheartedly. It is so hard to navigate this time. And I think about you looking back at these pictures from 2016, 10 years ago. I can't believe it's been 10 years. So it's 2016. I was like recalibrating there for a moment, Cynthia. And how much you've learned, like I said, how much you've grown, but also in your own perimenopause and to menopause journey, you know, standing where you are now, what have been some of the biggest non-negotiables? One, that you are continuing to educate, but that have not only supported you, but have supported a lot of the women that you've had the opportunity to take care of. Now, I would say number one, measuring in the majors. I keep using this as an expression, but it's so easy in this held among the space to get seduced by a gadget or, you know, that cold plunges or the aura ring, sorry, no fault on aura ring. I'm just saying, like all these gadgets, instead of doing the real work that we know ultimately is going to support our health and significant ways. So, like number one, like you got to sleep. And maybe, like for me, I was someone that got by in about six, maybe seven hours in night of sleep. Consistently, I was like, if I was, you know, six, sometimes it was five, because I would get a lot done when my kids went to bed. And I felt like such a strong sense of pressure to have the house perfectly cleaned and have all the laundry done and do all the errands and all the things. And I think back now, and I'm like, no, just go to bed. Just like when you have babies and your mother or a loved one says to you, when the baby sleeps, you sleep, I would make the same advocate, see that when you got young kids, go to bed earlier. Like it doesn't matter if your house isn't perfectly cleaned. So I think sleep as an intervention. And then also the other piece with that is, don't be afraid to ask for hormone replacement therapy way before you think you need it. You should be having that conversation with your prescribers so that you are ready for when they want to start either progesterone or testosterone or estradiol, depending on what your needs are. And we're all each one of us as we navigate paramedics and menopause is as unique as we are. So, what marita has gone through may not have been what I went through might not be what someone else has gone through. And so there's common themes. But number one is you got to sleep and it needs to be high quality sleep. And you need to make it not a job, but you need to make it a big priority. Because from that, you will have more energy to exercise. You will have more stable blood sugar to make better food choices. You'll be able to manage your stress better. You will be able to contemplate having sex with your significant other spouse. You will be able to engage with your other loved ones. And it just kind of becomes this domino effect. I would say, you know, number two is stress management. I certainly thought, thought I did a good job managing my stress. And I realized I had no formal stress modality. I would go to yoga once a week. Like I would go to yoga on Saturday morning and do yin yoga, which was delicious and wonderful. Obviously plenty. That's enough. Exactly. But I would literally like I would get to Friday night. Oh, man. I literally hanging on with my fingernails. And then Saturday morning, I would go to yoga and I feel so much better. And I'm like, why don't I do this more often? Instead of doing all these really intense conditioning classes and cycling and all these other things like why am I not doing more yoga? So finding something that you like doing and doing it regularly, not to burden you. Like sometimes women will say, I can't add one more thing. I'm like, listen, everyone has five minutes to meditate. Everyone has five minutes to ground themselves in the earth. It's not winter and it's freezing outside. Everyone has five minutes just to do breath work. Everyone has five minutes, but their legs up the wall. Everyone has a couple minutes to be able to devote to this. And then from there, if you find something you like, do it more often. Like right now, I'm in a meditation phase because that's just what I needed at this stage. And I've always struggled with meditating, like for meditating for more than 10 or 15 minutes. And I can meditate for 20, 30 minutes now because I've really have needed that to ground myself in early 20, 26. And so managing your stress, you have to change your relationship with nutrition. I know it's not sexy. Everyone gets curfuffled over this. They want to eat like they're 18. You can eat like you did at 18. That would be correct. We're drink alcohol. And whether you choose to drink or not drink, that's a very personal decision. But I remind women, if my number one priority in terms of self-care is sleep, I don't drink personally because my sleep is too much. important. And that is one of the few things that wrecks my sleep. But I would say about the nutrition piece. Again, very bioindividual. You probably are not eating enough protein. You're probably eating too much processed food. You're probably eating the round types of fats. Track your macros for a week. Get a sense of what you're doing and then adjust. And I would imagine, along with the macros pieces, fiber, fiber is in fruits and vegetables, and some grains. And most of us are not eating enough fiber. And I can make the argument for why we need to. I know that fiber is like the new F word is I affectionately say that for a lot of individuals, they get very upset. It's very polarizing. And so I have to remind people that ultimately if you understand physiologically what's changing in our bodies, you will understand why fiber becomes so important. So track your macros for a week, see where you are, make adjustments. Like I said, what I see consistently is not enough protein, too much processed food, probably too much alcohol, not enough fiber, wrong types of fats. And then we move on to exercise. And it doesn't have to be complicated. Like how many women just don't move their bodies during the day. And whether they're sitting, whether they work from home and they're sitting on their butts all day long or they're in an office or they're running around frantically in a hospital or they just don't get the opportunity to even breathe throughout the day. I think exercise has to be part of what we're doing and carving out even 10 or 15 minutes, a few days a week, starting with body weight exercise, really focusing in on some degree of strength training because preserving muscle mass is so critically important for us. And the other thing that I think a lot about when we're talking about the majoring in the majors is a strong sense of connection, whether you religious connection to God, the universe, whoever that you embrace. We know having a sense of purpose is really, really critically important. And I find for a lot of women that are navigating pariamenopause as part of the sandwich generation, which is where I am aging parents. I lost my dad in 2024. My mom will be 80 in February, which is a huge milestone. My kids are now older. They're both adults, ones in college, want to be leaving for college next year. Aging parents, older kids definitely feel the responsibilities of being pulled in 20 different directions in order to meet everyone else's needs, really making sure that you have a sense of purpose because from women who maybe were stay at home moms, which is a very important thing to do, if that's the right choice for you, when your kids are getting older, they may feel like they're free falling because their identity is so wrapped up in their children. And even for me, I've always worked at least part time. I was walking through Target yesterday and I got really emotional. I was all by myself. I was buying a birthday card and a bereavement card and I think a Valentine's Day card for my husband. And I walked by this whole Valentine's display and it brought me back to probably 15, 12 to 15 years ago when the boys were younger. And we used to do all these crafts and we would paint and we would do all these activities together. And I was like, wow, that time is behind me. I look forward to when I'm a grand parent, hopefully not too soon. I look forward to being grandparent because I'll get to do all these fun things again. But boy, does it go by fast? Like I always say, "Saver every moment." That's been a prevailing theme as a parent. But like I was a 54 year old woman with a 20 year old and an 18 year old boy, does it hit hard? Like you just start to realize like time is fleeting. This is where I would emphasize like that connection to others is so important. And as our children, if we have children are becoming more independent, finding things that you can connect with your significant other or spouse or friends with, you know, my husband and I have like started doing some pickleball, which I jokingly talk about is so important for like hand eye coordination and brain health, learning new things. But you just start to realize that you have to have a purpose. You have to feel good about yourself. And again, it can be very bio individual. Each one of us might do something completely different that makes us feel good and needed and necessary. But we need to have a sense of purpose. I think that's very, very important. We talk a lot about different types of hormones, but oxytocin is one that we probably don't talk about enough. And that's that connection hormone. Whether we're hugging our pet, our loved ones, our kids, our husband, our spouse, you know, dear friends releasing a little bit of oxytocin also feeds into that stress reduction modality. You know, you get a little bit of oxytocin with that, but you get others with, you know, sexual intercourse having orgasms, other such thing. But that piece of connection is really, really important. We want to feel connected and we want to feel valued. Hmm. I agree with you. I love the majoring in the majors. How getting clear on the foundational aspects of your healthy lifestyle and doubling down on that, the sleep aspect as well. So important. It's so interesting. You know, you brought up, you know, like having the perfect household for the family, like having all the laundry done, having all the cleaning. And it's so interesting to me how these beliefs have been so pervasive. How we will sacrifice our sleep and our sanity and our stress resilience to, to like fit this mold. And I think that's a big part of midlife as well. It's like just letting so much of that go in prioritizing you. I think that is what you learned. I had a migraine the last couple of nights and I actually went to bed early to kind of mitigate the migraines. And there was a part of me that was, I mean, I could not stay up. You know, and it was hard to just, I'm usually the one who puts kinks in a sleep. I'm usually one lays down with him and I was like, if I'm going to be worthwhile to anybody tomorrow, I got to get to bed. But I remember thinking before going to bed, I'm like, oh, man, I don't even want to know what my kitchen's going to look like tomorrow morning. But it didn't also, it didn't matter because the song is I was functional and everyone was okay. It was all fine. My husband does not care if the kitchen is clear or not to like. His number bro, he's so good at the priority being my son, like Kingston, Kingston, Kingston, the kitchen. I don't supposedly sell the kitchen is going to take care of itself as far as my husband can. Well, the way their brains are wired. I mean, they excel at one thing at a time. I women's brains are designed to be able to, and if you talked any, you know, cognitive health experts, they'll say that, you know, we really shouldn't be multitasking, but we have a capacity to be able to do that. But it's funny when my boys were younger. I remember talking to them and I gave them like three things to do and they were like, did the first one. They're like, what were the other two? And it's not that they're not smart and intelligent. Our bodies are just, well, women's brains are designed to just be like surveillance. We're thinking of 90 things all at once. Whereas their brains are like, okay, I did task number one. What's next? And so to your point about your husband being able to just focus in on your son and not worried about the way the kitchen is left is because they do a great job of focusing on one thing at a time. And I think we can learn something from that as women. Like I, I've had to struggle with that because I think one of the things that made me a good ER nurse and a really good nurse practitioner working in cardiology was I could think of 90 different things at once prioritizing. And so there's nothing better than giving myself permission to not have to be thinking like that. Like I think of it as scattered thinking because you're not really present because you're thinking of all the other things. And so maybe one of the blessings of being middle aged is that we also like, you know, the way that are neurotransmitters and our hormones are kind of changing. It can sometimes force us to be more present. More people are thinking about. Yeah, you're really well at one thing. You call the tabs open and more. And I will tell you that has been a big identity shift for me, although I still can run a lot of the tabs. But it's definitely requires a lot more effort than it used to. And I am a little, I wouldn't call it jealous by any means, but there is something to be said about that superpower of you're just focusing on the one thing. And for my husband, he is, he knows that the one thing is our son. That is the thing. Even when I'm out of town, the memories that they create, the things that they do together, and I mean, my house is the wreck when I get home. But like Kingston had the best time, right? You know, and that's what matters. That's what matters. And so yeah, it's interesting, like loving that superpower for him, you know, again, picking up the mess on the back end of that. But also trying to honor the way that our brains are shifting and changing, where we are not able to constantly sense the environment or multitask the way that we are, the way that it used to. I need to tell you about a night that still sticks with me. I was deep in paramedic pause, completely exhausted, but the second my head at the pillow, my brain just lit up, replaying conversations, running through tomorrow's to-do list, and I could not shut it off. I remember looking at the clock at 1.47 a.m., doing the math on how many hours I had left. And then the next morning, I am literally sitting up in bed and mentally crossing things off my list, not because I didn't want to do them, but because I knew I didn't have it in me. That wired, entire cycle, it's not just stress, it's a nervous system that won't downshift, and in paramedic pause, it can feel worse. 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I promise your brain and body will thank you. Well, and I also thank for any of us that grew up in trauma. Yeah, we know the vigilance. I was going to say it's hyper-vigilance and so that's the environment that I grew up in. That was how I survived my childhood and young adulthood. You start to just give yourself permission to not be hyper-vigilant, not reading the lit- like I always say it's like the litmus test. You walk into your room and it's like, "All right, what do I feel?" And so being someone that's very empathic, I now give myself permission to just say, "That doesn't work for me." Again, we go back to the boundaries piece. But I think for a lot of us that grew up in a lot of trauma and whether it was violence or abuse or any of the above, I think we just learn to adapt to our environment. And so I probably, like a lot of women and probably more hyper-vigilant than I need to be. And so giving my autonomic nervous system, my parasympathetic a break and saying, "Okay, we're going to let you exist in your zone of genius and not make you feel as if you have to watch over everything just waiting for something to happen." I'm grateful that we keep circling back to that because I think this is a lot of, so often women don't, we don't realize we're doing it. We just think, it's not about the ability to scan the room, the ability to handle all these things. To me, that still feels a bit like accomplishment. Like checking off those boxes, like, "Ooh, my nervous system, even those are not good for my body." My nervous system is like, "Yes, yes." reprogramming. Yeah. Well, and I think on so many levels, the things that gave us a superpower, like being able to read a room, being hyper-vigilant, probably allowed us to be very successful in various aspects of our personal and professional lives. And so I would say it's like reminding our autonomic nervous system. It's okay. It's okay. You don't have to be hyper-vigilant all the time. You don't have to be worried about danger or problems or arguments or anything like that. And so I think that probably resonates with a lot of women that are starting to rethink maladaptive patterns as they're navigating middle-age. A grade. No, yeah. I mean, I feel like it's all up for review right now. And I think all of us are feeling that in our mid-life journey, however, it's showing up for us, whether it's in relationships or, like you said, obligations or just this whispering that what used to work isn't working for us anymore. Yeah. I think it's powerful. And for some people, they feel a sense of loss as they're navigating making different choices. I think other people feel empowered. I think so much of it is our reframe. Like I always say, life happens for us, not to us. Obviously, I didn't coin that phrase. I heard it from someone else, but it seems very applicable at the stage of our lives that sometimes things happen in a way that does not make sense at the time, but retrospectively, you're like, oh, that really happened for me to take me to a different perspective, to push me in a different direction. And so finding those reframes, I think, can be very, very beneficial. I love that. I want to spend a little bit of time. I want to spend more time on this, but I know I should be pivoting to the book. We do a little bit about the book. And one of the things that really stood out to me regarding your beautiful new book was that the gut is the central regulator of our hormones, particularly when estrogen begins to decline. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to want to know more about this. One, I understand because I still think, I know the gut's playing such a big role. And I also think the brain has played a big role here. And hormones are just kind of doing what they're doing, and driving a lot of the messages and the conversations as well. So talk to me about the role the gut is playing in all of this because this is the connector that I think a lot of people aren't seeing yet. Yeah, thank you. I think that the more I was looking at diagnostic testing with patients, the more I talk to females, I was like, there's something here that we're not putting together. We as clinicians are not putting together because I think there's a lot of appropriate emphasis on brain health and bone health and heart health. But the microbiome is, we're talking about an incredible ecosystem in the colon. So the large intestine, there's over 40 trillion bacteria virus as fungi protozoa that exists there. There are more of them than there are human cells to give you some perspective. That is how dynamic this gut microbiome is. And as I was talking to patients and putting these things together and talking experts on my podcast, I was like, you know, there's a lot here when not talking about. So to give everyone some perspective, there is no hormone or neurotransmitter or organ the body that just does one thing. So keep that in mind. When we talk about the gut microbiome, it is helping us understand that the gut microbiome communicates with every organ system in the body, the lungs, the heart, the brain, the other vagus nerve, our vaginas, literally our bones. Literally, there is not an organ system in the body that does not communicate with the gut. So the gut becomes a central player because the health of the gut impacts every single organ and tissue in the body. And so when we think about it from the perspective of, I call it the three P's. So when young boys and young girls are born, their microbiomes are impacted by their mother's microbiome, whether they were born vaginally, by C section, whether they are breastfed, bottle fed. And there's nothing we can do about that. So for anyone's listening, it feels any sense of guilt. There's no guilt. We just move forward. But it's not until puberty that we start to see some differentiation between the microbiome of boys and girls, not surprisingly, by these key hormones, testosterone, estrogen, two less or extemporary just drone. Same thing with pregnancy. Maybe not everyone listening has gotten through pregnancy, but that's also a dynamic time when the microbiome shifts in response to alterations in these key hormones, then perimenopause. So the last P perimenopause is an extraordinarily dynamic influx of progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, changes in neurotransmitter, serotonin, dopamine, GABA, all these severe changes in the microbiome. So I'll give you some kind of key high level things that change that will explain why fiber is important and why diversity or diet is important. Number one, we get alterations in the microbial diversity. What does that mean? Instead of having a balance between inflammatory and anti-inflammatory microorganisms, we see a preponderance of more inflammatory organisms. So less lactobacilli, less bifidobacter, more inflammatory processes. And so we know at the basis of aging in general is inflammation. So acute inflammation, you trip, you cut yourself, that's acute inflammation, your body goes into fix it. Chronic inflammation is the stuff that we're really speaking to. And so number one, we have changes in microbial diversity as these sex hormones. Well, I don't want to call them the pet hormones. Progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, and estrogen plays a really key role in the microbiome. Number two, more inflammation that I mentioned, more likely to see dysbiotic organisms. So we talked about these alterations, more likely to deal with leaky gut. Women at this stage of life are more likely to develop autoimmune conditions. And it's helping them understand that like the small intestine is one cell layer thick. It is so easy to breach that salt, that layer through antibiotics, stress, exposure to toxins, synthetic hormones, etc. And right on the other side of that one cell layer thick and this little abutment to the balance of that is the immune system. So someone is taking around a bi antibiotics, probably hopefully appropriately prescribed. It can open up these junctions in the small intestine. You can leak food particles into the bloodstream, which provokes this inflammatory response. And you start to understand why women become down with bloating, diarrhea, constipation. They have underlying food sensitive. They've never experienced before. And it's likely a byproduct of some of these changes. We also know that our immune system starts to buffer and lag. So we are less likely to be able to fight off opportunistic infections. We become less vaccine responsive. And this is not a political statement. This is based on the research, less vaccine responsive. We know that we are more likely to deal with this autoimmune piece because we're just more we get more provoked. It's almost like we have a cranky immune system that just dials up inflammation. It's more reactive, but not in the way that it's beneficial. We also see less short-chain fatty acids. Now people hear that and they're like, what does that mean? These are signaling molecules. So when we take the fiber, we swallow it goes to the stomach, small intestine, go to the large intestine where it's fermented into these short-chain fatty acids. And these are important for blood sugar regulation. They're important for satiety. They're important for reducing inflammation. So again, we go back to this inflammation piece. Like, inflammation is at the basis of aging and certainly accelerates in perimenopause and menopause. So those are just a couple ways that the microbiome starts to shift in ways that it provokes inflammation in other places. So imagine if the vagus nerve, which is the super high way between the brain and the gut. If suddenly that's not working quite as well, and we're not making as many healthy neurotransmitters because we have alterations in serotonin's a big one. Serotonin is impacted by estradiol, which is also impacting melatonin. So the sleep disruption piece starts to happen. It's something people understand like if our gut isn't healthy, the brain neurotransmitters are not going to be healthy. And the other thing that I find so interesting is if we have a leaking gut, we'd probably have a leaky brain. The blood brain barrier is designed to be impermeable, meaning it's designed to protect us. But if we know we have leaky gut and if you have an autoimmune condition like Hashimoto's, Lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, celiac, etc. There's over 100 now. So there are a lot of autoimmune conditions. You very likely also have leaky brain. So I think about the anxiety depression piece. They can really get magnified, especially in perimenopause. It can be a byproduct of changes in progesterone. It can be dependent on our diets, but can also be a reflection of shifts in these neurotransmitters that impact our mood and how we perceive ourselves. And so when I'm talking to women, I'm helping them understand that if the health of your microbiome is important, then we know it's intricately involved with our bone health. So we talk about how estradiol has primary prevention for osteoporosis. I would make the argument. The health of the gut is largely dependent on the health of those bones. So there's this gut bone access, gut brain access, gut vaginal access, literally gut ovarian access. The health of the gut impacts when we go into menopause. It impacts how quickly those ovaries age. And let me back up and say that our ovaries are the pacemaker of aging in our bodies. They are the most mitochondrial dense organ in the entire body. And it's important to understand there are things we can control, like whether we choose to smoke, whether we drink alcohol, whether we may we don't have control over what happened in our childhood. But you know, things that we're exposed to as adults that can accelerate the aging of our ovaries. So, you know, there's also some genetic pieces we can't per se control that. But it's just helpful for women to understand there's a whole lot to this. We're just scratching the surface. There's surface. There's a lot of evolving research. And I find it to be utterly fascinating because when I'm talking to other experts or I'm speaking on stage, or I'm speaking to women one-on-one, everyone is surprised to know how important that microbiome is. And it has a lot to do with the fact that there is its multi-purpose. It is a communication engine throughout the body. And it is dramatically changing with shifts in estradiol and progesterone and to a lesser extent testosterone. As all of those are changing dynamically and perimenopause and immunopause. We spent a lot of time on majoring in the majors in the earlier part of this. And many of those of not actually all of them are having an impact on our gut microbiome. We also know that there are factors that play including hormones that are shifting and changing that are having an impact on the microbiome as well. The one area we didn't spend a lot of bit of time on, although we touched upon it, you touched upon it, was going to be the nutrition aspect. And I get that this is, you know, this is where there's always so much, like you said, the kind of the fiber conversation. I got to understand. But let's talk about now that we know how mission-critical sleep is to our microbiome in movement and stress reduction. Let's talk specifically about the nutritional peace because whether women know what or not their microbiome is going to shift and change. And so it's going to be important for us to future proof that microbiome so that we feel and continue to be resilient for years to come. Yeah, it's such a good question because again, it goes back to nutrition as one of the most important levers that we can utilize at the stage of life. And for some people, they are open to making changes and others will say, I don't want to make changes. I want to eat the way I did at 18 and I grew up in New Jersey. And to all my New Jersey friends, the way I ate at 18 would not serve me well at the stage of life. So we do need to make some changes. And I would say number one, tracking your macros to know where you are and not with judgment, but just to see where you are falling. So kind of like a CGM in a way. Like let's get to real about the data. Yep. I would say that when a woman says to me, before I even talk about protein, I don't tolerate fiber. I don't tolerate oxalids. I don't tolerate lectins. I don't tolerate grains. And I always say, you know, that to me gives me very valuable information because we probably need to work on supporting the gut before we even start interventions that are beyond just like protein and easily digestible carbohydrates. So if anyone's listening or saying, I don't tolerate fiber, sometimes it's portion dependent. Sometimes it is very bio individual. It could be that someone tolerates certain types of resistance search, but not others. Someone tolerates certain types of vegetables, but can't consume them raw, which makes sense. It makes it a little harder to break them down. So number one is protein. I always talk about this protein leverage hypothesis. We need more protein with age, not less, no less than 30 to 50 grams per meal. And protein is important for satiety is important for, you know, there's other byproduct hormones. Protein becomes very important. And we use this term protein leverage hypothesis. That means as estrogen is going down, so estradial, as follicular stimulating hormone is going off, that is the a hormone that's secreted by the pituitary gland to yell at the ovaries to reduce, to release an egg. As it's going up and estrogen is going down, the protein piece becomes more important. We need more protein, not less to trigger something very important. Then I'm sure other guests have talked about this muscle protein synthesis. So muscle is an organ of longevity. It is very important for metabolic health. We want to consume enough protein to be able to build and maintain muscle. So protein, protein, protein, very important. When my patients tell me they're standing in their pantry at nine o'clock at night, I can almost always guarantee they're not even a protein during the day because your body will start looking for other sources. Right. It's looking for a cloric makeup. It's probably going to be processed carbs in fat because that's stuff that you can grab that shelf ready, etc. Then we know. And who's trying to eat protein at 10 o'clock at night? You know what I was saying? It's at the end. I literally will say, you should prove your 10 p.m. cravings and that food noise by eating enough protein. I mean, I have this conversation with my five-year-old all the time. I'm like, the reason why you want to snag is, you know, let's talk about the lack of protein consumption. Exactly. Well, and I'll tell patients, I'm like, listen, when you are standing in your pantry at nine o'clock at night, it is a good indication you probably didn't hit your protein macros during the day. So no judgment. That is something that's fixable. Then we move on to fiber. I've just made the argument we make less short-chain fatty acids. Why they're so important? Blood sugar regulation, reducing inflammation, they cross the blood brain barrier. Probably one of the key ones is beta rate. Probably most people have heard of and you can get that from grass fed butter and ghee and some fermented vegetables. So fiber is very important. Average consumption here in the United States with our standard American diets, probably five to 10 grams. So we're not eating enough. If you hear different experts, they'll say 25 to 30. But if you go from five to 30, you're going to be very unhappy with you. So I think most people would prefer to get it from food-based sources. So I always say, find something you like. You love artichoke hearts or you like to have flax and chia seeds in a smoothie. Find things that you like and incorporate them. Like, one thing I started doing five years ago that has made a big difference in the health of my colon. And I'll talk about the colonoscopy. I just had was integrating a tablespoon of flax and chia seeds every day. Like, that has been consistent for five years. I just had a colonoscopy because I have a terrible family history and my GI docs said, God, no polyps, everything looks great. No hemorrhoids, nothing. Now, five years ago, my colonoscopy, although I had no polyps, a lot. There were still some inflammation, some other things that were ongoing. And so this is one thing I've done that's super easy to do. It's not a big deal. Yeah, you have some seeds in your food, but you can put it in smoothie, you can put it on salad, there's you put in yogurt, whatever works for you. Yeah, I know. Any more fiber into your diet because we need more. If you don't tolerate fiber, it could be a sign that you need to do some very basic work on the gut. Could be something that you have an auto immune condition. Maybe you were on antibiotics. Maybe you need to back up and do a modified carnivore ish type diet for short period of time and then reintegrate in smaller quantities and see how you do. Obviously, brightly pre-mented fruits and vegetables, I always remind people we heard that eat the rainbow. Well, those colors are important signaling molecules in the microbiome. And so having a variety, I always say three vegetables to one piece of fruit are society-like sweet. So, a lot of my patients will just eat fruit and no vegetables. And so I'm like, try to do a three to one. Three vegetables to one piece of fruit is a good kind of mainstay of focus. And then the right types of fats. Now, this is again, very bio-indivitose. Some people do really well with animal-based fats, like some of the saturated fats that you get in fish and meat and things like that versus I'm someone that does better with plant-based fats. And what does that mean? Mono-insaturated fats from you know, things that you can get from avocados. Avocados. All of oil. All of oil. Right. All those things. I don't do as well with things like coconut oil or duck fat. I just don't do as well with. And that is very bio-individual. So I think it's like navigating those basics and then really getting clear about sugar and alcohol. Now, I have found that they can be equally tantalizing and they can be equally addictive. If someone says to me, I cannot get through a day without a piece of candy or a piece of cookie or a piece of cake or I like ice cream late at night. I go back to have you eat enough protein because that protein piece should keep you full, should. Sometimes people have to formally and I use a term detox from sugar. but they really do have to get rid of it. If you can't moderate, you need to eliminate it. And I know for some people that is like here say, they're like, "Well, what about birthday parties "and what about the holidays?" And I'm like, "Listen, if you cannot moderate a particular food "then you should probably eliminate it." If you can moderate it, then sure. Like, have your cake on your birthday and it celebrations provided that isn't then a trigger for you to continue consuming an overconsumption of process carbohydrates. Alpaol is very bio-individual and I always say to people that if you value your sleep, you may need to change your relationship. A lot of women are in that mommy drinking culture. They're really stressed out. And so at night, they're having a couple glasses of wine. Maybe they're binging on the weekends or binging at parties. It's really examining your own personal relationship. And then deciding, do you think you need to decrease what you are consuming? We do know that there's no amount of alcohol that is truly safe. Number one, number two, if you choose to drink, just do so responsibly. And that means like if you need to have a martini once a month or twice a month, you know, enjoy it. But just recognize what it is also potentially impacting. And we know that it's particularly destructive to the gut microbiome. Yeah, oh my gosh. It's destructive to the brain, to the gut microbiome. Your sleep, to your stress response system. I'm going to take your heart rate variability and take your rest in our rate, like gone your body score. All of that is going to the wayside. I think it's important, especially the way that we metabolize alcohol to begin with, women versus men. And then as we get older, how much harder it gets because of the changes in our gut and our liver, like it's worth just taking a break. See how you do. There's, you know, I think it's worth exploring. You know, I would say it's more so or worth exploring than even breaking from sugar. Although I think if you're going to break from one, you might as well break from both. Well, and it's interesting. Most of my alcohol like prone patients are also sugar addicts. Like pretty consistently, there's that interplay. What's interesting is there's evolving research that's suggesting things like tersepatide in particular, which act on the GLP1 receptors, but also the GIP receptors in the brain. For a lot of people, they quiet the need to drink alcohol and consume junk. And so for some people, like they're going on a GLP1 because they need to lose weight and they want to be metabolically healthy. And then they find, oh, I lost all my cravings for XYZ. But evolving research suggesting that GLP1's may be beneficial for unnecessary alcohol use disorder. But for people who maybe are trying to cut back on their drinking, they may just have like it. Quiet's that craving center in the brain. And for a lot of people that can help them decrease their consumption, I think that this is certainly a very touchy topic for a lot of individuals because for whatever reason, I think alcohol is one of the few toxins that's truly legalized. And so it just becomes part of the culture. It's part of the Super Bowl. It's part of like special events. It's just kind of taken for granted that alcohol is something that is both legal and to be consumed. And also, I'm sure that the alcohol lobby in DC is incredibly influential because we should have more cautionary discussions. And in fact, the new food guide pyramid that came out, there was not, I was disappointed to see that there wasn't a recommended question. All about alcohol use. But having said that, I think sugar can be problematic for a lot of people. And it's very insidious. It's very innocuous because sugar is in everything. It's in our condiments. It's in things that seem so benign. I have some patients that can't consume protein powders with any sweeteners because it triggers them to want more and more and more. So I think you just have to know yourself to determine what makes the most sense. When we think about true toxins in the gut, alcohol is right up there. Everyone. You know, we're talking about this at a time where it still dry January. And I just did a full episode on the impact that alcohol has on hormones, on the potential for cancer, on our metabolic health, our blood sugar, our sleep, menopause, parimenopause, fertility. I mean, across the board, it is wrecking our cellular capacity and resilience. It's affecting us on a cellular level. And that's why it's impacting our sleep. That's why it's impacting our blood sugar in our metabolic health. Like, you often understand that you're waking up feeling like crap the next day. It is a universal impact, not just, oh, you have a hangover. Yeah, absolutely. And I think for a lot of people, it is, understand that men and women metabolize it differently. We have less water. We have more fat. Right, we have more body fat. I think about the fact that when you look at the research about how it's prioritized in the body, it's prioritized as a toxin. So if you be in a big meal and you have all this alcohol, it process the alcohol first. And more often than not, the foods that you're consuming will be stored as fat because your body is trying desperately to kind of filter out the toxin that you just consumed. Now, as I tell women all the time, you know, make decisions and decide from there, like sometimes I have patients that will say, I will go on vacation and I'll have a little bit of alcohol because it doesn't matter if my sleep isn't pristine. But I do find when I'm home, I have to be very mindful about when and if I drink at all. Yeah. I mean, from personal experience, I think I had maybe a total of five sips of alcohol in, we're talking sips, not glasses. Like maybe equated to one full glass over the entire 2025 year. And anytime I stepped over the bounds of two sips of somebody's wine or somebody's champagne, like I felt it. My brain felt it and I was like, oh, like nope, back up. And I think you just have to really know your body, see how you feel, one, while you're drinking it, but also how are you doing the next day? You know, even if it's not a full-on hangover, just your foggy, your off, these are things to pay attention to. Yeah. Really speaks to inflammation. Like we kind of started the conversation around, you know, what drives aging in the body? It's inflammation and inflammation. I know that term pisses off some people, but helping people understand like at the basis of aging and cellular aging might a conundrial decline is inflammation. And so we want to be mindful of our choices, whether it's not getting enough sleep, not managing our stress, not exercising at all, which we know is detrimental or just eating, you know, a hyperprocess diet. I think the statistic now is 70% of us are eating hyperprocess foods every day. And we know that that just regulates the choices that we make because the foods are designed. You know, there's this bliss point. The foods are designed to be as enticing as possible. So we'll eat an additional 500 to a thousand calories a day. And for most of us in middle age, that can be a profound negative net impact. Yes, I agree with you. I agree with you. I think about if we're always looking from the lens of oxidative stress and inflammation, you know, it makes choices a little bit easier because either you're moving yourself closer towards resilience or away from resilience. And let me tell you, although we are stepping into, we're just the midpoint, we're stepping into the second half of our lives. It's a higher stakes game. You know, we get to live this big life if we're really mindful about protecting our resilience. And so it gets to go one way or the other. And all the things that you're talking about today, Cynthia, are really setting us up to win. And I think every woman deserves that. Absolutely. And I think it's also like we always want the message to be there is so much that we can do. In the menopause gut book, the one thing that I talk about is the gut is so malleable. There's so much that we can do. We don't want to take away in any capacity to be like, if you ever drink alcohol, it's all doom and gloom. Or if you've ever eaten ultra-processed foods that is not or saying there's so much that we can do. It's just we want to be thinking consistently, like over time, overall, what are the themes of our lifestyle choices? Because those are the things that are going to have the greatest impact. Not if you went on vacation and drank a bunch and ate terrible food. Or not because, you know, for six months, you were caring for an elderly parent or maybe your child got sick or your spouse. And you weren't able to take care of you. That is all malleable. So we always want the takeaway message to be, there's a lot we can always do. And like anyone, it's always an iteration. There's always things transparently that I am working on. It is never like, oh, I checked the box and everything is pristine. Nope. When I was out in LA last week doing press for the book, you better believe because my body clock was, I was trying to stay on East Coast time. But I didn't eat enough every day because by the time I wanted to actually go to these podcasts fastened because I was so much mental clarity when I do that. Just like when I speak on stage. But with the time I got back to my hotel room, I was like, oh, I've only got so many hours till I go to bed. And so, you know, what am I going to do the next time I travel for business? I'm going to bring like protein powder. I'm going to make sure I'm ordering breakfast in my room. I'm going to make sure I'm carrying essential aminos because I don't want to run the risk of breaking down muscle at the expense of trying to fuel my body. So we're always iterating. We're always trying to improve upon what we're doing. It is never, we're never static. As beings, we should always be trying to improve something. Yeah, there's no end goal when it comes to health and wellness. And if you were, if you thought, if you still thought that to some degree, like, no, this is the one journey. You will continue modifying and shifting. The one thing I want to say about vacation, I really do believe that the ultimate flex is being healthy on vacation. I know that this is unpopular opinion. But I have so many years, I would just be like, it would be carte blanche. Do whatever I want on vacation. And then I would spend weeks if not months. leaning up the damage that I did on vacation. And I was like, what if I just lived the way I lived on vacation and I will tell you, ultimate game changer for me. - No, I love that. I mean, we were away for Thanksgiving and we were paddle boarding on Thanksgiving morning. And it was like open water paddle boarding, which was awesome. And I lived with my kids and I was like, how many of your friends are out paddle boarding this morning? Meaning, you know, we were on vacation and we were up early. Like, I think we got picked up at like six o'clock in the morning to drive to this one location to do open water paddle boarding. And I'm glad we were there that early because all of a sudden there are all these boats going by. So coming back in was a little more precarious. But for anyone that's listening, I 100% agree with you that when I go on vacation or if I'm traveling for business with the exception of not being able to eat enough, which was totally my own fault, that won't happen again. I really do try to stick to like a very protein-centric diet, getting my fiber, making sure I'm eating up vegetables, a little bit of fruit, drinking plenty of water. I didn't mention that in the nutrition piece, but hydration is so important. Most of us, we start to lose our thirst receptors as we're getting older. And that's a function again of this loss of ester dial. Find it fascinating when I'm in the research, realizing like we start to lose our ability to tell ourselves, like, oh, by the time you get thirsty, you're really dehydrated. So hydration, hydration, hydration, super, super important. And if you're like me, I've got a little bit of dysautonomia. You got to add in some salt and electrolytes too. Agreed. All right, my love. Okay, where would you love for us to go and get this book and to find you? Thank you so much for this opportunity, Marita. Number one, if you have a brick and mortar bookstore near you and they're carrying the menopause gut, please go and buy it. I think our brick and mortar bookstores have really taken a hit since the pandemic. And so I know it's easy to get it on Amazon, which obviously you can find it there, Barnes and Noble Target, Books a million. Any of the online retailers will carry the book. But if you do have a brick and mortar business, please go give them some business, give them some business love so that you can purchase it there directly. Obviously across social media platforms, I'm Cynthia Thurlow. You can catch me on my website, which is www.syntheturlow.com. I always remind people I am most active across Instagram. I'm a little bit snarky on X if you happen to be there. I'm also evolving substack and obviously across YouTube and all the other platforms. We do have a presence, but you'll probably most likely see me the most on Instagram. - Love it, love it. Thank you so much, honey. It was such a pleasure to have you. Thanks for having me. (upbeat music) - There's so much about this conversation with Cynthia that I loved and I hope that it resonated with you and I hope that it helped you see your body in a whole new way because so often, after the age of 40, when things start to shift, we're told it's just hormones, right? That is the narrative and that we just have to manage our symptoms with hormone replacement therapy or whatever else we're throwing at us. But what if Cynthia was just nailed it on the head in terms of the beautiful and important reminder that there are deeper root causes that are playing out as well. And your gut is one of the most powerful places to start. When your gut is supported, everything changes. Inflammation, your metabolism, your hormone balance, your energy, even how your body feels day to day. And the best part is there are things that you can do to influence this, right? There's ways to support your gut during a time where microbiome diversity is shifting and declining. And that is why I'm so excited for her new book, The Menopause Gut. This is a powerful guide to understanding what is actually happening in your body during this critical and pivotal transition and what you can actually do to start feeling better. And yes, it is a domino effect. So just know what you're doing with a gut. It's gonna have a profound impact on other areas of the body. So if this episode spoke to you, especially if you're struggling with gut issues or symptoms that are associated to the gut, I highly recommend grabbing a copy and diving deeper. And I will have the link in the show notes to go and check out Cynthia's book. You can find her on Instagram, Everyday Wellness, her podcast, and obviously the book is available everywhere and books are sold. And today, just ask yourself, what is one small way that I can better support my gut today? Maybe it's a smoothie, maybe it is adding a little bit more prebiotic rich foods to your diet. Because often, I know we think about these big shifts, these big supplement protocols. And it doesn't have to be that way, right? It can be something small, a small shift. It can be a walk after meals. It can be helping to balance your blood sugar, adding a little bit more fiber, like chia seeds and flax seeds to your smoothie or your salad. It doesn't have to be complicated. It just has to be a start. And so that's something to think about today. What is one little thing that you can do? And I'm telling you, the next episode is gonna be so good. I cannot wait to see you there. (upbeat music)