Why You Don’t Need a Major Studio to Release Your Movie Anymore

The Town is presented by Fandool. Have you heard the news? Fandool is now available everywhere. And when we say everywhere, we mean everywhere. Tallahassee, Florida, El Paso, Texas, Athens, Georgia, Madison, Wisconsin, Birmingham, Alabama. All right, you get the picture. Wherever you're watching, whatever game you're fired up for, Fandool is there to bring you closer to the action. So make your picks and play wherever the games take you. Download the Fandool app to get started. Age and location restrictions apply. Product availability varies by market. See Fandool.com for eligibility, gambling problem, call 1-800-Gamber. It is Wednesday, October 21st. There's a big budget animated movie coming out this weekend called Wildwood from the Likas studio. It is Coraline, Kubo and the Two Strings, several others, all released using a traditional Hollywood studio to market and distribute the films to theaters. But for this one, Lika is bypassing a traditional distributor and instead releasing it via a company called Fathom Entertainment. If you've never heard of Fathom, that's because it's based in Colorado. It's co-owned by the major theater chains, AMC, Cinemark, Regal. And it mostly handles small specialty stunt style event titles, like anniversary re-releases, recordings of Broadway shows, opera, live concerts, that type of thing. But it's a growing business with re-releases becoming much more popular these days. And independent studios looking for ways to trim costs and most importantly, assert more control over how their movies are released and marketed. Remember earlier this year, Markiplier, the YouTuber, he released Iron Lung via a Renta Studio Company. Taylor Swift went direct to AMC for her concert documentary and even big studios will sometimes hand over major titles like Spider-Man or Pan's Labyrinth to do re-releases via Fathom. Fathom is also big in the faith-based world. They released the chosen faith titles, one of which grossed $20 million in the US last year. And Wildwood will almost certainly dwarf that total. So how does a company like Fathom work? Turns out they've got a new CEO, Jason Brenek, who just started in July after working at Disney, IMAX, founding a cloud-based cinema platform. Jason's here today and he's going to walk me through how the Fathom platform and business work and why it's a more popular option even for bigger titles. Today it's how to release a movie without a major studio involved. From The Ringer and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany and this is The Town. Okay, we are here with Jason Brenek, who is the CEO of Fathom Entertainment. Welcome. Thank you, Matt. Appreciate it. Alright, so I wanted to have you on for a couple of reasons. First of all, I think that this whole business of re-releases and filling theaters with, I call them stunts, you call them events that bring opera and 30-year-old movies and comedy shows and concerts to theaters, I think that is a growing and smart business as we move away from people just saying, "Oh, I'll watch everything at home" to wanting more out-of-home experiences. And secondly, I kind of couldn't believe that this $100 million animated film from LICA was bypassing a traditional studio, they released five movies, four have gone out through focus, one went through Anna Perna, a Megan Ellison's company, and now they're going with you. So let's start with Wildwood. Why is Wildwood, why is LICA choosing Fathom for this? Sure, sure. You know, I think it's quite a few reasons. We have been in the LICA business for as long as LICA has been around. As you mentioned, the reissues, the Repetory titles are a big business. Well, you guys did Coraline. That's exactly right. We've done Coraline, we've done Paranormon, and I'm sure we'll get into the Repetory and Reissue business, but that's kind of what built our longstanding relationship with LICA. I think more than anything this film, and for all of your listeners who will see it, is a groundbreaking film where I, you know, know from the Travis Knight and David Burke camp at LICA, that this is something that they wanted to have a much stronger hand in managing the marketing, managing the distribution, having a hand in the creative, the trailering versus something that they wanted to hand over the wall to a studio marketing and distribution team to do something with. So I think it was the combination of the passion that they had for this project that had grown over the 16 years that it was in development, but also it was a perfect time for them to take a step out of the studio system and really take matters into their own hands from a creative and marketing standpoint, and we were the partner that stepped up and said, "Listen, we will support the film in the way that you want, but it's your vision, it's your baby. Let's help you birth this thing." Right, so let's get into a little bit of the business of Satham, and what it is you guys do and don't do. So you take on a film and you agree to distribute it, meaning you have relationships with the theater owners, not just the three big chains, AMC, Cinemark, and Regal that you are co-owned by, but independent theaters as well, and you say we can get you 3,000, 4,000 screens on opening weekend, what can you deliver and what do you not do? Sure. So Satham has been around for 20 years, it started as I'd say a way to fill screens during off peak hours, and that's kind of what we built our business around. I think the way that the industry has changed into creating fewer, bigger, eventized titles is the same way that Satham has evolved its business, and we have done wide releases, but they haven't been the types of wide releases that are often reported in the press. These are things like bringing together the community of faith-based viewers for the chosen, where we made over $100 million doing that, these are three TV series that had been shown online multiple times, but people wanted to come together. We've done 20 years of the opera and bringing together art fans for stage plays and those types of performances. And over time, the things that we have really start to get good at are focusing in on affinity groups, passionate fans, and figuring out how to mobilize them. And for a lot of reasons in the industry, this is what has started to happen for all of the major companies. In order to kind of stand out among the fray of online content, offline events, IRL, people want to come together and experience these things, and that's really what Fatham has evolved into. Well, I think during COVID, it also became, there weren't enough movies. That's right. I mean, the theater chains complained all the time about how the studios were not producing enough product to fill these down weeks and low and behold, the reissues and the stunts and all the other stuff became more popular, and they started to lean in on it. And now you're saying, how many events or how many things do you put in theaters per year now? So we have traditionally hovered around a hundred per year, and this could be anything from one night only live concerts or opera sporting events to typical engagements that go for a week and keep going, depending on the first screen averages in the box office. And can you guarantee a certain amount of theaters, the same as, let's say, focus features or one of the specialty distributors attached to the major studios? Well, it always comes down to the content, the value of the creativity, the audience is there. But what we can do, because we are, as you mentioned, owned by the three largest cinema chains in the US, you know, Regal Cinemarkin AMC, we have a, call it the red phone. We have the ability to play on their screens. We have the ability to go out to a much broader audience, and we have certain types of marketing, you know, kind of hooks and techniques that we were able to utilize from both our owners and from our affiliates to get content on screen. I think the other thing that we have been able to do over the years that we've been working on this strategy is we've really been able to find the times of year through slate planning and really actively figuring out where are the periods of time. Now, this weekend is a crazy weekend. We never would have expected the number of new releases, wide releases that are coming at us. Well, and there's a documentary that's going to probably beat them all that you would have never expected. Yeah. And thank goodness we have a cameo from Elizabeth Holmes and Nathan Fielder in our movies. So that's going to be really, I'm actually hoping that maybe you can help me with some kind of a barbenheimer effect. Sure. Yes. You've got to see Elizabeth Holmes and fantastical animated features. That's right. A natural match. Yeah. Okay. But then let's get to what you don't do. Yeah. You do not come up with a marketing campaign. You do not sell the movie other than doing PR and, you know, putting out press releases and stuff. You leave the campaign and raising awareness of the film to the actual producer. It's actually a partnership. So we work with the content creators who know their audience better than we do. You know, take one example. We have been doing a lot of a creator driven content like digital circus last year, something you and I would never know about made $25 million of the box office by working closely with the content creator who knew his audience. So we always start with the audience. that's built in, that people know about. The fan group, the offending group. But what we layer on and where we do our best work is on the inferior marketing side. The trailering, the in lobby, the posters, working on the online websites, social, digital, we're not buying big billboards. Now you'll see them all over, you know, LA, New York and other places for Wildwood. That we leave to media agencies and you know, work with the creators on how that comes together. Like coordinated by the studio. So like us team, and I think they have some former studio people there that are coordinating the campaign. And that's a key difference because I've long argued that the core competency of movie studios these days is not necessarily making good movies. It's marketing them, getting people to see things like other mommy that are not good, but can still open to mid-20s. And sadly for the industry, but fortunately for us, there are a lot of great marketing people, a lot of great distribution people out there freelancing right now. And I think that's played very favorably into the product that we put out to market. - So you bring in these freelancers and they help you craft a distribution campaign that includes marketing that is coordinated with the studio owner. - That's right. And very tightly coordinated with the theater owners because as you've highlighted on your show, the studios are moving to fewer, bigger box office driven, they're consolidating, and you've got a landscape of these independent studios, A24 Neon, but there's a huge spectrum in between that's really traditionally gone straight to streaming. And that's where we find ourselves moving into. And I think that's part of the logic for how our owners see fathom evolving over time and having much more direct control over the product that gives them life, bringing films and regional audience. This is a great thing for the theater chain. I mean, they've watched as their business has been eroded by these studios launching streaming services without a care in the world about how it impacts the theaters, then why shouldn't they return the middle finger these theater owners and say, listen, we're gonna go after your business. If you're gonna take 30% as a distribution fee for some of these movies produced outside, then we're gonna do it for let, what is your distribution fee at fathom? It's a range for something like Wildwood to go as broadly as we want to go as the ambitions let us. It's a pretty traditional distribution fee that any other major release would have. For some of our events where we're programming them three days, five days, we're having to take a little bit more. - They're not doing this to save money necessarily, is what you're saying, like if like I had gone with focus, they would have paid the same amount or about the same in distribution fees. They just would have lost control over the marketing to a studio that for better or worse, maybe they would have come up with a way better campaign than the one we're seeing, but maybe not. And they are feeling they want to try it themselves. - That's absolutely right, that's one of the driving factors. - I can see this becoming a trend. I mean, as the kind of disintermediation of the studio system continues and more of these success stories like Iron Long or if this movie hits, I could see people going direct to the theaters via deals like this where they want to control the marketing. - That's absolutely right. And if you think about the tools, the marketing tools with social media and online marketing being in place, there are many, many filmmakers who are building their own cult of personality, their ability to reach audiences. And I think like Travis Knight are in that camp. - And by the way, I asked like why they went with you guys and I got a quote from David Burke, their head marketer, and say we know our films and our audience and working with Thatham allows Thatham to take a more direct role in bringing wildwood to cinemas. - Thank goodness we're on same page. - Yeah, exactly. All right, so that, I mean, that's a big change for you guys. This is a major first run, $100 million movie. What are your conversations like with producers? Are you actively outcording more of these? Are you, what does your pitch deck say for how you compare to the release plan from a traditional studio? - Sure, I mean, we are in conversations with all the agencies we're talking with production companies. I think we are not going to, this wildwood release is definitely pushing the boundaries of what we want to do. What we don't want to do is take away or compete over projects that the major studios are trying to take. We don't want to get into a bidding war, but we do think there's a lot of creativity. - Because obviously you don't want to piss them off. Although you're all three chains, it's not like they can punish you. - We don't act as three chains together. That's the thing. We, you know, fathom is an independent entity. We just have big stakeholders. - But my point is you're not affiliated with AMC alone. So like Universal couldn't punish AMC by not giving it certain preferences and movies or taking their, you know, they couldn't work with the other chains because you have all of them. - We do have access to all the major chains. And, you know, in our pitch deck, what we talk about is the creativity and the control. But we have a longstanding track record of finding audiences where they live, making sure that we can bring these affinity groups together. And this kind of plays into how we built our business around the reissues and reputory businesses that we, you know, if you think about it, it's a very nuanced landscape of, you know, falls into really three categories. One is the AFI film crowd. We were really tearing the torch for all of the classic films that have ever been released on screen, the singing and the reins, the Casablanca's. This is an older audience that we really have a connection to that also aligns with our met audience. The second group are, you know, kids of the 80s and 90s who are heavily nostalgia driven now. They're having kids now like you. They want their kids to experience some of these films. And this is all for-- - We went back for ET, you know, Avengers. These things that my kid has not seen in a theater. And he wants that and I want him to be able to experience that. - Is that business really growing? Let's get into the reissues business. Is it, like, give us some numbers. - Well, I would say that for us, it has tended to be around 30 to 40% of our overall business. And we published numbers before. But we're constantly one of the top 10 distributors in the country, you know, even though we are a specialty distributor, we cover a lot of basis. But I'll say that, you know, it's in the billions of dollars that are being made across all the studios that are doing reissues and fathoms making, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars doing this on a recurring basis. But anyway, the biggest segment for us is the third bucket. It's not the nostalgia driven bucket, which actually ginzeers and millennials are-- because of the 80s and 90s affinity, they're being drawn to. And 35 millimeter they're being drawn to. It's really the fandom category, which wildwood fits into it. It's the fanboys, fangirls who want to come together communally, they want to experience it. And these are things that we've done, like Lord of the Rings trilogy reissues every year. I think we made over 20 million dollars two years ago. - Oh, God, I bet you have to clean up a bunch of elf costumes and things like that. - Absolutely, absolutely. It's doing hunger games. It's doing, you know, we've done Spider-Man a number of times with Spider-Man films. So that tends to be the biggest and growing sector because people want to see these things communally. They want to experience it. - And the studios have to give you the titles? - No. - Is it a negotiation? Because I remember in the Skydance acquisition of Paramount and Warner's, one of the issues that came up was that the theater group wanted to make sure that Skydance would make available its library titles for exactly this kind of thing and not poured them for their services. But it's basically free money, right? Like I was looking at the numbers for Pan's Labyrinth last week and that's a 20 year old independent feature and it's a couple million dollars. It's just free money, right? - It's free. I mean, the marketing costs something but in terms of the production risk and knowing there's an audience for it, it's a much, much more attractive release than say, you know, a totally unknown piece of IP. - And I'm sure the filmmakers love it. We just saw that Chris Nolan is doing a re-release of the prestige, although that's not through you guys. That's through Disney, correct? - That's through Disney with IMax. And I think it's part of the, you know, tight, cozy relationship that Christopher and IMax have together. But studios will choose to do one off releases. You saw it with cars earlier this year. You saw it with Avengers earlier this year. You know, when somebody can put a studio, can put their marketing muscle behind it and they're willing to spend on it. But one off release, you know, content to make sense. When it comes to doing a full 360 fan event that has collectibles and gifts with purchase, that's how we kind of step in and create, you know, we eventize these types of releases. - So Disney will do the prestige with Nolan and IMax, but something like Coraline, which was a focus release. Universal is not doing that. They will hand it off to you guys to do. - That's right, that's right. Or doing a twilight. series really which are actually doing these kinds of festivals is something we've also built a lot of business around. And it serves to promote upcoming movies. Lionsgate could do hunger games to promote the next one. Just like we saw that Disney is putting all the Ice Age movies on Netflix right now. They want some money for those titles but they also have a new Ice Age coming out next year and they want to reintroduce these movies to young kids that are largely on Netflix. That's right. So it's smart. There's a there's a frozen three coming out next year. There's new Spider-Man every time. So we also think that Fathom can help as a franchise driver for studios and aside from the agencies and production companies. We spend a lot of time with the studios. They like the business. We bring them and we pitch events. We come in and we talk about how we can benefit the studios by elevating the profile and bringing back some of these titles that will help lead to and tease with extra content and filmmaker you know Q&A's and things like that that help tease some of these upcoming franchises and take the edge off of a cold release right off the bat. It's all another factor here is the subscription services for these theater chains. I think because so many people are AMC Stubbs members or the equivalent of the others, they have this sort of sense that there are free movies out there and there's not always movies that you want to see that are first run movies. So you look at the app and it's like oh they're playing ET. I love ET and I now have a kid. Let's go see ET for free essentially. Right. That's a great point. Absolutely. So the other stuff that you guys are doing, let's talk about growth areas. What is the growth potential of sports in movie theaters? So in my 30 year career I've done a lot of sports in theaters. I came up through Disney working with ESPN in the early 2000s. Did a lot with my last company and I maxed and yeah I think the it's one of those things where the industry has kind of hit their head against the wall and it's one of those things where I think the cracks are starting to show. Yeah it should be much bigger. It should be much bigger. And if you look at the direction of how theater chains have moved into reserve seating, food and beverage, alcohol licenses, you cannot compare a theatrical sporting event where the players are more than life size to seeing it a sports bar. And I think the fact that Cosm has finally broken into sports now they've got their own cameras. Yeah that's the giant screen facilities. But those are not everywhere. There's a multiplex in every town. So I think the certainly the leagues are open to it and they're throwing it's really the affiliates and the local stations and the blackouts and the advertisers that we need to kind of figure out and crack through. But I think anyone who has seen sports in a theatrical environment will never go back to seeing it at home. It is an amazing thing and so we are looking at 2027 and trying to figure out what are the big events that we want to have have interferes. It's a good time and I think that's a big growth area. Yeah I've heard that the local stations really hate that and they want everybody watching but you know what if you are in college and you live in a shitty apartment and you and your buddies can pay 15 bucks and get a row of recliners where you can drink beers and watch your favorite sporting event together and yell at the screen. That sounds pretty cool and you don't have to like jockey for a seat at your local sports bar. That's right or imagine taking your son. You wouldn't take him to a sports bar but you know getting out of the house with the other fans. Well I probably would but that's a whole different conversation. But no it's a great point and he could bring five of his friends and you could have a 10-year-old party watching a sports game and not have to worry about drunk guys at a bar. That's right. That's right. So that's a big growth area. The other area that we're looking quite a bit is the growing kind of heartland faith-based inspirational movement. Obviously Angel Studios has done well. We kind of created the category with chosen on screens but there's a lot of content out there that isn't mainstream content that we think can find an audience through phantom especially with our theater owners who are heavily represented in the heartland. Yeah, explain that a little bit. So you so it's a company like Angel Studios but they already have their own distribution. Oh right. Why would they go with you guys? Well I guess what I'm saying is for phantom we see that movement in the direction of content that is specifically tailored to families who want to see a certain type of content. That's another area that we're focused on. Yeah like Sunday afternoons you go to church and then you go to the theater and you can watch stuff that you guys are curating for the faith audience. Well or full run features that play in middle America for weeks at a time. We've had lots of success with projects that are made by people out of Nashville and other locations that speak directly to this audience. It doesn't have to be narrowly defined to a church time. We're looking at these things as wide releases as well. And how big does the aspiration have to be for you guys to be interested? Joe Blow who made a movie with his buddies and wants to put it in a theater. You guys aren't interested in that. It's got to be something that can guarantee a certain audience. It's got to have some scale and resonance beyond. So we think about it as anything that can justify a thousand theaters across the country or in a segment of the country or more because we do. Because of our owners we have to make sure that this is something they would play in their theaters. What about digital creators and what kind of platform do they need? What kind of audience do they need for you guys to be interested? And how do you kind of look at that? Right. So huge YouTuber is listening right now and wants to make a movie for three or four million dollars and distribute it nationally. What do you guys require? So I have worked through my career with different creators. We obviously did digital circus which was 25 million dollars. Worked with groups like the group called Sam and Colby delivering that into theaters. You know for us it really depends on the base and the passion that the base has. So we look at them socially we look at them you know all their platforms how they communicate with their fans but really it you know for those types of events they're fast burn. It's a fast passionate crowd and it doesn't have to be a movie. It can be an event built around multiple episodes. It can be an event built around their fandom and how they do things. So there are definitely creators that we talk to the agencies about who we are kind of putting in our pipeline and starting to nurture along so that they can get to theaters. What about internationally? You know the big allure of a traditional studio is that they cannot just release in this country they can go global. Yes and we have done global releases. We do releasing into the US Canada UK Australian Museums of English-speaking markets. When it comes to outside of that we really you know outsource. So we did a Terminator 2 and a Transformers release that we did globally but you know right now we are a very domestic shop. And a lot of the product that comes our way has been pre sold in markets so it makes it fun. Does it annoy you when our friend Adam Aaron at AMC is out there talking about how artists like Taylor Swift and Beyonce should just go directly to AMC to distribute it and not to you guys which is you know you're a consortium of all the theaters. So I love Adam Aaron he is a friend and we all do. I know you do too and he's he's a disruptor and I love that about him and frankly it keeps all of us on our toes. I wasn't here for the Taylor Swift you know kind of experience but I do think that there are quite a few reasons that maybe Adam wasn't so aware of when he did that why he should have come to Fathom first and he still could have gone direct we can become a distributor of product that the theaters take on and that's something that we're starting to do because they also compete against each other you know they're only trying to get a leg up on each other because they're sitting well yeah and they were annoyed that Adam did this deal and then came to them at the last minute said oh by the way we have this movie we think you guys guys should take it yes yes absolutely but Markiplier did not go with you guys he went with another a centurion or something like that is that arrival or what why did Markiplier not use you guys for iron love you know I'm not exactly sure that that predates me but it is it is a case study that we we look at and I and we definitely have conversations with a lot of creators over what of their works will make it into theaters yeah and I imagine if you start putting garbage into these theaters you would hear about that very quickly very quickly I mean obviously depending on how wildwood does this weekend you know you said it's a crowded weekend so it's interesting because you've got a movie that your theater owner backers are invested in going up against traditional studio distributed movies so you can't really push this movie to the point where it impacts the success of the other movies in theaters even though you might want to well we are pushing it and do you require any kind of theatrical window to take on a movie we we traditionally play theatrical windows for new releases yeah but we do a lot of television you know we're like yeah co-align with the issues. No window because those things can have no window if like I said yeah we want to use you guys to release our movie but we're going to do a 30 day window and it's going to go to Netflix or whatever you're not interested in that we are not and we are we are definitely believers in the theatrical window and the benefits that the ethical window house has in the downstream well it's a fascinating model I think it's really interesting to see you guys competing for this kind of a movie and good luck to you this weekend thank you Matt I really appreciate the time we're back with the call sheet Craig before we start on Monday I said that the audience for you can see everything was 70% under 25 years old I got a correction email from the distributor that is actually 70% of the audience was under 35 which is still very impressive but a different set all right Craig really interesting weekend again there is the very tantalizing possibility that you can see everything the Elizabeth Holmes documentary could beat the opening weekend of a DC movie playface probably similar budgets right actually this was a lower budget DC movie I'm not sure the actual budget it's R rated it's kind of a horror movie but it's tracking to 25 and if you look at the math you can see everything did 15 million in 855 theaters last weekend this weekend expanding to 2600 theaters well and it's just experiencing such strong great word of mouth that I know but I wonder like people rushed out to see it opening weekend the hardcore like target audience I don't know how well it's going to expand I don't even think a 24 knows yeah but I do think it's gonna get to 25 really you do you think you can see everything is gonna get to 25 weekend too I do yeah I do and I think that Clayface will probably not get to 25 the reviews we have not seen the reviews yet we're taping this a little early and the only review out there is from a guy who went rogue and saw it at a fan screening and called it DC's morbias moment which is not a compliment I mean this movie it's R rated and it's like you know this is a how close to Halloween release and I feel like more than a DC thing it could just play as a horror film yeah they're hoping Joker style audiences come in yeah we'll see though not sure but I'm gonna take the under on 25 for Clayface I'm gonna take the over I don't know where we would set the line even for you can see everything but I'm gonna I think it'll do more than 25 and it will end up beating Clayface I'm gonna go opposite both ways I'm gonna say you can see everything under 25 but I'll still do well and I'm gonna say Clayface people will show up for weekend one and it'll hit over 25 and then drop off the interesting thing at propose of our conversation on the show today is Wildwood tracking to about 14 according to NRG seems low for me I think that I thought that movie would at least open to 18 20 but I guess independent original animation yeah we just we just saw it struggle what was the movie that didn't do well that we thought would oh forgot Nile and that was Dreamworks too yeah yeah I don't know I think I'll just for the benefit of the doubt I'll take the over on 14 for Wildwood and where are you at with Clara and the Sun oh let's talk about Clara and the Sun this movie is a complete calamity I don't understand Amy Adams I love Amy Adams I love Jenna Ortega what in the world the reviews for this movie are horrific take a YTT like man what happened to that guy and can we just can we just do a bomb off right now can we can we look at the Amy Adams movies over the past five seven years okay and compare them to the Jenna Ortega movies over the same period sure we can what was the what was the Amy Adams movie where she turns into night bitch remember that bitch I saw that movie at Toronto I nodded off a little bit and somebody called me out and texted the head of publicity at searchlight and told on me that I was asleep during the premiere of night bitch which I was not asleep I was just nodding off a little bit but it was not good well that's on you all right that is on me I guess all right so first of all 2020 hold on can I just say Amy Adams has been nominated for six Oscars and I feel like we love Amy Adams to say pro Amy Adams I guess but since 2020 Hillbilly L.A.G. Justice League the woman in the window dear Evan Hanson disenchanted sequel to enchanted night bitch at the sea not sure what that is and now Clara and the Sun which by the way is tracking to four million this weekend I see your Amy Adams filmography and I raise you this is Jenna Ortega since Wednesday premier the season one of Wednesday finest kind Miller's girl winter spring summer or fall Beetlejuice Beetlejuice death of the unicorn of course death of a unicorn hurry up tomorrow which was with the weekend oh disaster the galorist with Natalie Portman and now Clara and the Sun that's pretty rough now she's working a little bit more in the indie world she's taking shots with interesting directors for small budgets and and like trying different stuff and hoping one of them pops which I respect it just hasn't quite happened yet and I think Jenna Ortega is very talented oh they're both talented that's not the question it's it's maybe you know maybe we need a little bit of a switch up in the representation for both of these actors because the choices not great all right but we digress four million for Clara that I'm not even gonna do an over-under on four million that's that's outrageous I'd be lying if I said I had any opinion it's based on a book I believe I know Sony's releasing this movie they will pretend they have never heard of it in two weeks all right that's the show for the day I want to thank my guest Jason Frederick producer Craig Coralbeck our editors Jesse Lopez Stefano Sanchez and I want to thank you one more time this week we'll see you on Friday