Why UFO Disclosure Begins & Ends at the Pentagon... | James Fox

Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. Mr. James C Fox, it's been a couple of years since you and I recorded those two podcasts when you had a moment of contact out. Yes. And I would say, hey, moment of contact, it's moment of contact. That's way better. Yes. Obviously, since then, there has been a lot going on in your life personally, and you have been making a brand new documentary in the process that has now come out, I think like a month ago, the doing the podcast tour and all that there is a lot to unpack from that film. The program, the link will be down the description of that as well, but you have brought here today, Mr. Jason Sands as well, who was featured in the documentary and has been in the middle of like the internet controversy around some of the things that you have come out publicly. I believe in April and then extensively through the documentary. So we will get into all that today, but it's great to have you back, sir. Thanks for having me back on. I want to say is that we can get in this later. I wanted to provide Mr. Sands an opportunity to provide some defense, you know, provide some of his credentials, his military records, things of that nature, because I am the one that accidentally ousted his name. He wasn't intending to come forward publicly, so I owe that to him an opportunity. And because of my mistake, he's had to, you know, face some of the consequences, and it's been rough for him. And, you know, I've called him up. What are you talking about? You sound like a crazy guy. Please stop. You know, but I do want to, I'm excited to have this opportunity to let him at least have a voice and speak a little bit about, you know, his background and what it's experience, but we can get in that later. Absolutely. We have the military records here and everything, so we'll get through all that. We'll go through your whole story. But as far as the program goes, first of all, great documentary, as always, you did a great job. But this is something we had talked about this when you were here with us last, like you were in the process of making it. But what made you decide, like after doing moment of contact, which is a specific case down in Brazil, what made you decide to come up and really go straight into DC and try to focus on the government angle more than anything with the USP phenomenon? Well, I think it was kind of a natural progression when I did the phenomenon. Right. There was some discussion of crash retrieval. There was Roswell and there was hint sprinkled throughout a couple of hints, one of which was when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid admitted on camera during my sit down interview with him that what had been released the 2017 New York Times article revealing the secret Pentagon UFO program and some of the tapes that have been walked out of the Pentagon. It was merely the tip of the iceberg. Right. So that was a very profound and big significant statement by the former Senate Majority Leader. I mean, he was a household name. Right. So, so what I, what I did moment of contact that was I, in my opinion, and I could be wrong. I think it may be a little bit ahead of its time because I, well, because I remember people calling me going, James, you just, you have this unprecedented level of access with Intel folks, Senator Harry Reid, just publicly endorsed your movie that you feature close encounters of the third kind in. You've really been pushing the envelope. You've got a level of acceptance and access that you're quite honestly going to jeopardize by reporting on this alleged UFO crash case in Virginia, Brazil where these live aliens are walking around the town being captured. You're going to sound like a nutcase and people are going to say up the doses of the medication that you're not on, right? Probably rightfully so. You know, honestly, so they were like, are you sure this is what you want to do? And I was like, you know what? I've been, I totally understand that position because I was there. I remember when I was investigating what I was, I was mapping out my second to me repeat that my second UFO documentary, turned out to be out of the blue. I never have a title for things when I first get started on them. And I had a partner, Tim Coleman, and it was probably 1999, maybe 2000, probably 1999. And we were mapping out the film like concept ideas. I knew broad brushstrokes. It's like, oh, we want to focus on bent waters and let's, let's revisit this amazing case in Phoenix, 1997, March 13th, that massive flyover. And then he goes, oh, yeah, mate. There's this bloody amazing case that takes place in Brazil with these live aliens and this UFO crash. And they're walking through the bloody town and I'm thinking to myself, that's Charlie and it's always sunny. I literally said to myself, I said to myself, oh, my God, I got to pick a new partner. I just, this guy's, this guy's lost his mind. I'm not kidding you. I was like, oh, my God, I made a dreadful mistake. And I thought to myself, I'm not going to give this case one second of my time, okay, because come on, man, tall tail UFO crash live aliens. Are you kidding me? Multiple live aliens. How could the whole world not know about it? This is impossible. This is an utter and complete waste of time. No. When I finished, was it years later, 22 years later, 23 years later, I finished the movie. Tim was living in Egypt and he reached out to me. I hadn't heard from him in a while. He goes, bloody well, mate, you just made a film about that entire case and I told you about in the late 90s, what the bloody hell? He goes, you didn't believe me and you thought I was bloody crazy. And I was like, yes, I did. And I'm sorry. And I'm going to give you a special thanks credit. So I did. I gave him a special thanks credit. But it's not funny. I was like, so anyway, so because people asked me, I was like, well, how did you get into the program? It's like, well, I never anticipated when I made a moment of contact about a crash retrieval program, which I found out very late in the game that the United States government was involved with Virginia. Yeah, I kind of heard like rumblings of it. But while we were there the last time, in fact, the less he was there with us, unless he was producing the dark one. He was down there in the studio. He was down there in the trenches. We almost got shot in the face. Yes, and he filmed that. He did. And also you had the best haircut of all time. It's the greatest thing I've ever seen. So when you're watching moment of contact and you see the deal with the clipboard, you can either. Or whatever. That's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And that was probably there were there were two times when I had my life threatened in production. One was when I was releasing photographs that were given to me about the fishing community when I did a film on the BP oil spill. And they were using unprecedented amounts of corrects it. And the guy head of fisheries at gave me these these these images that quite frankly we're going to devastate his community. But he was like, I can't in good faith. Let the general public not know about what's going on because the poison and he said. You were real my identity boy. I want you down to slit your throat. Do we have an understanding? I swear to God. He said that to you. I believe you. Yes, sir we do. And then the second time was when they never go. He was like, Alabama. He's like, we're going to put you down to slit your throat. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. We definitely have. Guys, before we go on here, I want to make sure you know this is the first of two episodes that are coming with James and Jason. The second episode is coming Friday at 12 p.m. Eastern after this video was put out. So two days after this one. And essentially this first one is an hour and a half covering the program and giving a little bit of color commentary background on Jason. And the second one is going to be almost three hours with James and Jason where we go through Jason's entire life story from childhood on. I had announced this on social media over the weekend over on X. But I know you guys on YouTube didn't know that's one to make sure you knew another episode was coming. If you want to check it out before it drops, it is available on Patreon right now link in my description back to the episode. So anyway, then the next time of course I didn't I didn't I don't speak Portuguese. I mean, I could extract some words, but not in that moment when we confront the alleged driver Eric Lopes at his home. Which I found out all the S hardcore Brazilian researchers, one of which would pack the gun everywhere he went. Pecacini was like, you went to his house, are you at your mind? No, but none of us would go to his house. It was like, well, nobody told me that. And this is one of the witnesses to be clear. This is one of the witnesses that allegedly was driving the car during the second capture of a live alien. Yes. Wow. God even sounds crazy. I does. It does sound crazy. I know. Anyway, so my point is this. I could have never in a hundred million years after all the pushback I got when I said I was going to make this documentary on this alleged crash case that happened in 1996. In Virginia, Brazil. That months after releasing the film, there was going to be an open congressional hearing with a bipartisan group of lawmakers listening to the testimony of a gentleman, high intelligence officer, under oath, saying that there's a crash retrieval program. Because I found out the Americans involvement. Again, I'd heard little rumblings of it over the 12-year period, but the most compelling aspect was that the flight control officer came forward publicly on camera in a podcast saying I saw Ousef. And I was like, Ousef, but United States Air Force. - Here for sure. - Here for sure. coming in without Brazilian government authorization. And he was not supposed to let the thing land. And he, and then a high level government office, this is what he says on camera. That's guy Mark, I'm trying to think of his name. But, and when you're with the, like the police department, you're with the military in Brazil. If you're with the fire department, you're with the military in Brazil. Your air control flight control officer, you're with the military in Brazil, right? So this guy sees his plane coming in. He's like, they don't have authorization. I'm not supposed to let this plane land. It's Usaf, United States Air Force, January 20th, 1996, coming into Campinas. It was going to land in South Powell, then it stepped in and it diverted went to Campinas. In a military officer, I know it's funny. Campinas, Virginia, a number of times. We just said that in November 139 and people were like, I feel like a same penis every time. Campinas, I know. Camping, so I know, I know it sounds silly. But, but anyway, he said that a higher level military officer came in and let the plane land. Plain landed, I wasn't sure if it was one helicopter, or two helicopters went over to Virginia, loaded some stuff on, came back, loaded the plane, boo, back to the United States. I was like, oh wow, that really solidifies my belief that the Americans were involved. So now it's personal, right? So when I'm starting an investigation, I was already gonna go to DC and start asking questions. - One of, if not the most common DMs I get on Instagram are many of you asking me what my favorite books are. Well, today's your lucky day, because if you use the link in my description below to join my newsletter, I'm gonna give you my top 10 book recommendations right now. Also, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make money producing content from the show, you can do so via the Discord link in my description below. And finally, you can join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes via the Patreon link in my description below. As always, please take one second to hit that subscribe button. If you haven't already, I really appreciate that. Also, the like button's a big help, and you can join my newsletter via the link in the description below. But, David Grush opened the door for me. - Yeah. - Like it was wide open. Now, I'm damn straight gonna ask those questions because I came to that conclusion, not because he said it, but because my boots on the ground, which is what I think is the best case in modern history, because most of the people are still alive. - Yeah, it was really cool to see this, like as your friend in real time, because you went down to DC, pre-grush. You were there in February, 23, getting initial interviews and things like that. And then, it's almost like this movie you were working on, the stage of life set perfectly in like-- - Unbelievable. - I can get all of this now? - Unbelievable, I know. - A little bit of the fine intervention. - I could have never, and not only that, but who could have possibly have staged or orchestrated a drone invasion, a UAP invasion, to coincide with the release of my movie? - Yeah. - People were calling me going, "What kind of budget do you have?" - Thank you. - You already used to do that. - Much appreciated. - You know, I had people call me going, "How did you orchestrate a drone invasion?" (laughing) - Actually, you know, James, a little side note here, I just don't wanna get this lost in the picture, because you're such a humble guy, and you've only said like a little bit publicly, but obviously, us all talking, unless you and me behind the scenes over the last couple of years, we were aware of some of the things you were dealing with from a production standpoint to get this done. But for people out there who want some details now that it is behind you, despite everything you all said to give up as well. - Yeah. - You know, what went down there, because this last documentary moment of contact, you came on my podcast, it really exploded, and then Joe Rogan had you on, and it went to a whole different stratosphere, literally right behind Avatar worldwide, and then suddenly they're like, "Oh, we can't pay you." - Yeah. - I have to tell you about this game-changing product I used before a night out with Drinks. It's called Zbiotics Pre-Alcohol. 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Well, first they were really late, then they got later and I was getting really nervous. I was like, "Oh, is there gonna be fine? "Don't worry, it's a trend." We're just transferring all the stuff over and there's a little transition period and it's a little bit of a hiccup and everything's gonna iron itself out. Everything's gonna be fine. Well, I didn't feel that way. So that starts happening and I rely. And they had directly or indirectly all my movies distributed through this company, Distribution Company, all of them, right? So I had the phenomenon. I had moment of contact out of the blue. I know what I saw, 50 years to denial. They were indirectly through another individual, but in any case, so this starts happening. And while I'm trying to get interviews on the Hill paralleling this disaster nightmare, I'm trying to get interviews on the Hill and I'm literally having to send photos of production stills of me making the phenomenon because staff members of Congress were going, "No, I am a second." This person said they made the phenomenon. Who, what? I'm like, "No, I made the phenomenon." What are you talking about? This guy said, "What?" And they're like, "Yeah, well, he already came through and interviewed me." I was like, "No, and I was sending literally production stills." And then there were all these military folks, intel folks that were told not to meet with me and meet with this other individual who will remain nameless. This is going on. So I'm getting blocked. I'm getting all my financial support, all my finances completely devastated. And then paralleling that, I'm getting someone who's claiming responsibility for having done the phenomenon, who's in the process of getting all these interviews on the Hill and I'm having to explain who the hell I am. Well, thank God Christopher Mellon stepped in and started straightened the truth out. No, James made the phenomenon. We love the Mellon family. They're always going to straighten it out. Well, Chris Mellon really stepped up the plate for me. And I was really grateful for it to having him to do that. So he was telling people, "No, James made it." And then all these intel folks that were told not to meet with me, it was just a nightmare. I just thought, it felt like I was being extinguished. I mean, I just was like, "I remember staring at the ceiling at the level of stress, I'm seeing the sales report come in and remind you, I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars making every movie, right? So I'm always majorly in debt when I finish a movie. And I'm seeing all these sales reports coming in, I'm not getting paid, and I'm not getting paid, and I'm not getting paid. Now, I'm borrowing money to sue the company, and I'm trying to make this film. And I remember like staring at the ceiling, I'm not kidding, this was so devastating. I'm staring at the ceiling, trying to go to sleep at night. I'm drinking a whiskey just to like call my nerves. And I'd fall asleep and I'd wake up at like four o'clock in the morning and I was like, oh my God, I had the worst nightmare. God, thank God, that was it. Oh my God, no, and then I'd slowly wake up and this was happening week after week. And the problem is, is like, I didn't have any end in sight. There was no resolution inside. I didn't know how it was gonna play out, right? So I actually called a buddy of mine and I borrowed $50,000 from him so I could sue the company. I was just trying to go through all the different, you know, I didn't know what to do. And finally, the lawyer, and this went on for so many months, I won't bore your audience with the details, but finally this lawyer, my buddy Jesse calls me and he goes, look, bro, I'd like to continue taking your money, but I'm just telling you where this is headed. I'm looking at their financials and this is not going in the right direction. What's gonna happen is, they're about to declare bankruptcy and then your assets, which are their assets are now gonna be in the hands of another company that you have no leverage with. And you're lower on the total poll. And now you're only gonna owe me a bunch of money, you're never gonna get that money that owe you, which is lottery money, right? And I hate to say this, James, but I'm just gonna give you the best advice, play the game on the board, not the one in your head. It's good, lawyer. Take this deal, sign off. You'll never gonna get this money yet. I need you to respond via email that you understand that you will never ever get this money. It's gone forever. I have to get this distribution company to send, their legal department has to send all the various platforms, a legal letter to pull them down. You think if they start paying, if they stop paying me, that automatically, The rights were. to revert back to nothing? No, no. Every month I'm watching those sales reports and they're going in the pocket of a billionaire. Oh God, the level of frustration I was experiencing is like, off to charts, man. - Yeah, and I want people to understand that too. I mean, they're hearing it from you right now, but like, for you to have all the success of that film and essentially never see more than a couple dimes from it. - I still owe 100,000 on that film. And I actually was going to pay that back to one of my producers, Guy Donnie. And Donnie's been great to me over the day, over a well over a decade. And I spent it thinking I had money coming in and then he's like, well, I just spent it on the program thinking that I didn't know I was going to get ripped off. I'm so sorry. So I said, why don't I just give you an executive producer credit in the program. And I'll pay back when I make money from the program and he was cool. Thank God he was cool with that. But I remember at the time thinking it was so devastating. First of all, I like to hike. I was like, I go for my hikes every day, just to kind of clear my head space 'cause the level of stress was just beyond to say anything like, oh my God. So I would really get out there and hike and I said, okay, James, this is a very low point in your career. I've had all this success and now I'm in this position. I can't believe this. But I'm going to take this frustration, this anger, and I'm going to focus it. I'm going to laser like precision. I'm going to produce a really good documentary. So I took all of that energy and I focused it into the program and I worked 16, 17 hour a day to the point where I could barely walk getting my ass back to the edit studio. And I pushed myself to the break of death to produce the program. Listen, and I want to say this as someone who's seen a lot of this behind the scenes and what happened here. You know, one of my favorite clips we ever recorded is not a public clip. It was actually a 15 minute Patreon episode when you were in my, we were still in my parents' house back then, when you were there. - I drove down there. And that's the other thing, by the way, people want to know what a stand-up guy, James Foxes. He calls me at 4.45 AM from the runway in Vermont going, they said the engine doesn't work on the plane. They're going to see if they can give it a go. And oh my God, that doesn't sound promising at all. Obviously they gave it a go, didn't work, didn't crash the plane. And then Flake gets canceled. And we had a Lessie who's still lived in Florida at the time he had flown up for this. Now he was as broke as I was, so this was like a big deal. And so we're like, oh my God, this is going to get canceled and you're like, fuck it, I'm driving. So you came down for two days, didn't even let me pay for your hotel. And we ended up recording for about five hours and 45 minutes on the second day. We did two podcasts and in the middle of that, which by the way, thank you for doing that. But in the middle of that, we had a 15 minute Patreon episode where you walked us through essentially your career journey and then especially your eight year Odyssey. And that's what I'll call it, making the phenomenon, which for my money is the greatest UFO documentary ever made, fucking phenomenal. It took you, it took you 25 years before that to get anywhere near the respect you deserve. You work jobs from valet and to plummet to whatever it was. All these things, just to support yourself, pay for these documentaries yourself around the world, try to make something great and then finally, shout out to Joe Rogan for giving you the respect on the phenomenon back in 2020 and putting you into the other sphere. You then took all that money, put your money where your mouth is, put it into moment of contact. And so again, like when I see how close it came to you almost having to be like, if this doesn't work with the phenomenon, I gotta stop. Like my 25 year dream is over to see that work and then see you get all the attention you deserve, make this amazing documentary moment of contact and it's supposed to be your now crowning moment where like you can kind of go on in life and do the things you love and not have to worry about finances and stuff, to see that strip from you by scumbags, which is what they are. And to have you have any, there's no repercussions. - No repercussions. - No legal repercussions, what so ever. - To see that strip from you though, discuss me. That said, the inspiration that you are to me. Like that clip, I go back and watch that sometimes. It's still on Patreon. It was the first Patreon episode we ever posted. And to see, it puts in perspective what I do, what Alessie does because we work our ass off. We've been doing 88, like he does, 78 hour weeks now too. He's been doing that for like a year and a half. I would do that for five years. And it's like, damn, James was doing this shit and working separate jobs for 25 years just to try to get the respect he long deserves. And like, for all the creators out there who have a dream and want to do stuff, you're looking into the guy right here who never lets anything defeat him. And you had to do it again since then. So shout out to you for doing that and for making another kick ass documentary. - Thank you. - You know, I hope now we can be-- - I should have been laughing in my 50s. Like, yeah, I did it! Said I'm like, "Good fighting for survival." Like, again, here's the good news. I was like, well, I've been in the trenches my whole life. So I've been here before, I know how this feels. I know what it's like to be broke. I know it's like to be completely penises. I know what it's like not to even have a bank account. I didn't have a bank account when I first-- I didn't have a bank account when I was making the phenomenon for three years. And I remember people going, "What are you talking about? You don't have a bank account?" I was like, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm not doing it to upset you. Like, I don't have a bank account because taxes and duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. And if I put money in the bank, you know, it's gone. So I had to deal with all that. And it's gone! I know, I know, I know, I know, I'm sorry. I remember I got this check and I was waiting for it. It was like 1,500 bucks. I was like, oh, I need that check so bad. I was so desperate. I was like, oh, my God. I was like, I'm going to pay my cell phone, keep that from getting caught off. Then I got my heat bill. And I was like, oh, God, you know, and then-- So I got the check and I raced it to the bank. I didn't do the ATM. I went inside to make sure everything went smoothly. I put that check in the bank. The next morning I came to get the money out. And she was like, sorry, you have a zero balance. I was like, what are you talking about? I said, I put money and I said, oh, well, you made a withdrawal. I said, no, I didn't. And then she's like, oh, yeah, I arrest took it. You want to talk about a gut punch? It was like somebody punched me in the stomach with everything they had. And I remember thinking to myself, they didn't save me dime, not a dime. They took all of it. Changes like back to doing glory, whole blow jobs. Let's get out. Oh, my God, I was so devastated. It's full enough. But I remember thinking they didn't even save like-- they didn't take like 50% or like 70%. They took 100 every penny of it, anyway. So yeah, so I've been there. So you know, and it's funny, actually, because I had this mentality of like, someone's going to come take the good stuff that I did get away from me. I paid cash for my kind of my dream car when I could. And when I got-- when I bought a house, I just had a chunk of money. I never had a chunk. I never had that before. It almost made me paranoid because everyone's like, you got to do this. And you've got to buy a stock-- I'm not a stock guy. No, I'm going to put it all into a house. So I took the chunk and it's gone. But I felt good about it. As an artist, it's like-- then at least it's in a house, right? Yeah. Anyway. Allegedly. Allegedly. Oh my god, I'm going to take it back here and see we have that cash car, baby. Yeah, right. That was my neighbor when I was going up. But the bottom line is, here you are. You have maintain-- I know, obviously, there's real human struggles behind the scenes. But you have, at least in every time we've talked, maintain your happy, go lucky, positive attitude the whole way. And it's a good lesson because I think that's part of what gets you through and gets you this point. So-- Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, I don't talk about that aspect of it very often. And people think, like I had this young filmmaker make a comedy. Well, you have it easy and everybody's-- everybody helps, wants to help you out, blah, blah, blah. I was like, what? You're in your 20s. I'm in my 50s. I've been in the trenches for 25, 30 years. I'm like, you need to pay your dues, buddy. He's like, yeah, whatever. I really, really pissed me off. And I just had to cool my jets and be like, OK, this guy doesn't know. Because I don't really talk about that often. What I've been through to get to where I am. Not that I'm anywhere special. But it's like I set out to do dreams. And I had to claw and fight and kick and scratch and fight my way all the way, man. It's like nothing but a slew of obstacles in front of you. Try to get your-- go for your dreams, right? Awesome. Yeah. But when I finished the phenomenon was the only movie that I finished that I was like satisfied. Because-- You weren't satisfied with the ones before that? Nope. I did 50 years of denial. I was happy, but I was like, you know, I did it. That was intense. I didn't realize that it was in my 20s. I had no idea how hard that was going to be. That I did out of the blue. And I was moderately happy. And I remember my partner, Boris, was in a fetal position crying. And I've been there, too. And his wife's looking at me. She's like, you're killing my husband, you know? And he's like, you know, I'm just like telling everybody so much, I've got no money, so I'm not paying him. So he's like broke. And his wife's like, what the hell? I was like, we got to get this movie out, man. This is like, everyone's at the end of the rope. So I released that film that I owned it again three years later when I got a letter from NBC Universal. And they're like, we're not going to renew the broadcast option, which I didn't expect them to do anyway. So I owned it again, and I revisited that film. I think that's it. another two and a half years on out of the Louis made a trucker's cut and then finished that again totally broke like into my rope and that was like it's good but it's not what I envisioned it wasn't like what you you know you have this idea and it doesn't materialize necessarily as as you as you wanted to so that took another crack at it in my 30s mid 30s and I did I know what I saw mid to late 30s finished I know what I saw and I was kind of depressed because Lionsgate almost bought it but then the people that at I think was not acquisitions but the people that go through the quality control reviewed it and they said that it had fallen short in production qualities and I remember thinking to myself that's I didn't get a deal with Lionsgate because of that and it was devastating and I was like all right I'm not gonna make that mistake again next time if I don't have the money to do it right I'll wait until I do so then that's why the phenomenon took us long as it did it took me eight years I started when I was 43 you went all over the world to went all over the world yeah and I ran out of money at the time and I lost my bank account did I became a dad like all those things kept going kept going kept going kept going and when I finished it I watched it in the in the in the in the in the in the Los Angeles and a place called Judah proposed who does the audio work because we're gonna be for the first time ever in movie theaters and everyone said to me if you want to be in a theater if you're audio ain't right it's yes you got to have press you need to hire an audio engineer and I was like what I would never hire an audio engineer you know all these pro you don't understand James you can't be in theater without proper sound the balance the modulation all the little microscopic surgery that the that these guys do he did it he was amazing and Benzari and I watched the film in that studio I didn't watch it again for several years after that but I was like okay this is it yeah we got it we locked it down finally yeah that's the one that I've been trying to do since I was 24 yeah I mean it's the most comprehensive history of the modern UFO phenomenon yeah and I wanted to I wanted to create a body of evidence that could transcend in a big way the UFO community no problem I'm part of the UFO community but yeah I felt what's the point of preaching to the choir I want to I want to be able to present a body of evidence to the mainstream to a much more mainstream audience so let them know that there's really something more than swamp gas and weather balloons to the phenomenon right and I did it I felt like we did it yeah well look at the all the credits in the film most of them deserved it not all of them but uh but that's yeah that's another story all together yeah you're blue balls as there I see it but you get that was you know you get to sit down with a guy like Harry Reid who was amazing you know this long time center and everything was was read in amazingly on some of this stuff but that's where the initial idea for the program obviously comes from because you're doing this comprehensive history and you stumble upon the fact that there were official you know obviously you had the 2017 Christopher Mellon taking the documents out of the Pentagon and going to New York Times to bring the public while you're making the phenomenon and then you're in the midst of making the phenomenon you're talking to people like Harry Reid and you're like holy shit we have actual programs that are documented that look at this and nothing else you know so I mean were you thinking of yourself holy shit all these crash retrieval you know folklore all the way up to men and black because this is before you did moment of contact yeah might actually be based on something real because of what guys like Harry Reid were telling you you know it's it's kind of like I remember I remember when it happened at the time because I almost like pinched myself it's been a couple of times in my career where I've literally I'm in such a state of disbelief that I have to literally physically like gonna pinch myself because I'm going to that that really just happened like really and I remember the first time it happened with five Simons in the former governor of Arizona when he admitted after doing this whole spoof 10 years earlier where he had his a dress up as an alien and it came out and mocked the whole Phoenix lights case and everyone was so pissed off about that and that was one of the time when he admitted I was like did I just hear what I think I heard like he just said he saw it and he investigated it and then it wasn't of this earth he knew that despite the sheer size and you know and I remember like I literally reached out and I was pinching myself going no I'm not sleeping this really happened I was pinching my leg and then I was like oh because the camera's not rolling so I I looked over to see if the red light was still going on the camera you know well as moments and when Harry Reid said to me because I remember I was being somewhat conservative it was a huge moment in my career like imagine right oh yeah and I don't think anybody had gotten I mean that was the biggest sit-down interview he ever gave because he got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer yeah he was going to happen yeah and so I said you're telling me something like this you're telling me that what's been released the videos that were making the headlines all across the world you're telling me that the evidence that's been released that there's more or something like that and he goes was it like the vast majority or it's just a tip of the iceberg some extremely profound statement like it you always suspect it but to have that level of confirmation by that level of of person on camera wow that was an incredible moment in my career I was like oh my god all these things that we've been hearing in Roswell and Kingmington Arizona Aztec in Virginia and just all this stuff it's like this changes everything like if you think about it because you know people often ask me like why do I keep pushing what's wrong with you you're just obsessed you know and I say to them like well imagine imagine if this stuff is true imagine if we have hardware from an alien species I say alien because I don't know whatever they are but they're alien to us if we have hardware in bodies how significant of a story would you give that and everybody goes holy shit doesn't matter what your political background your your what what your religious whatever all around the world everyone says the most significant story period right of course so I am convinced that it's going down and it's a very difficult story to walk away from and quite frankly I'm not gonna ever walk away from it until it's out and it's coming and it's coming out what it's coming it's the story's coming out needs to yeah it's coming I mean it's it's coming out yeah one it one of the things one of the things you've talked about Jason is that there's a difference between discloat I want to get this right difference between disclosure and national security interests something like that when it comes to the phenomenon are you basically saying that if we had evidence that they're that literally that we are not alone in the universe people have a right to know that at a broad level whereas the things that may be more finite within that that would impact our national security they don't yes that that's kind of how I feel about it to just that yeah there's a difference between a weapon system from a technology be it from our own making or exotic retrieval kind of stuff where that needs to stay classified but that the disclosure should be that yeah we do have other things that we don't know where they come from or we do know where they come from and these are the entities and yeah people need to kind of know about this because it's a big deal for us as a race to just realize that we're not alone in this universe you know I mean that has an impact and to me that's a right for everybody to know or not know and except or not except well so expanding on what you just said because a lot of people go you know any statistician will tell you that the odds of us being alone in the universe is you know we're not 100% there's other life the question is is it coming here of course I'm convinced it is and I'm sure I'm a hundred percent yeah I've seen it I know yeah I wish everybody else could know what I know and have experienced and then they all be like oh yeah this is serious can we talk a little bit about his because I know I want to provide a little bit of a platform so he can defend himself a little bit and I'm not sitting there you know holding J up on the platform but I'm the reason why he's coming forward I'm the reason why he got exposed it was my mistake he did an on-camera interview with me we're going to mask his identity primarily but primarily because it was a security insurance thing he shakes us and yeah good job asshole he was dealing with 2021 2021 22 where he was having meetings in skips I'm guessing yes and meetings in skips with congressional staffers or people part of the task force or your EP task force folks yeah folks investigating on the hill yeah and they introduced me to the Congress and the Senate and House all that stuff and I met personally with a couple of those people because I was like I'm I need to know that this guy's been vetted and you know so I've been me I was meeting with I'm in fact I've got a in fact let me read this right now because this is the time what I want to do before you go on though I just want to say really quick yes you know you mentioned the time when you accidentally put my name out yes it's actually turned into a blessing disguise because as you know at that point I hadn't got my doctor yet and explain you explain yes well that's going to be the the pre-publication where if you're an intel person you have to ask you know for everything to be reviewed and that's what I had to do is get that the doctor's an acronym for like pre-publication process pre-publication yeah so that I can I knew that the subject that I could talk to publicly. So that was kind of something I was still working on, but when I had to go public, it was fine though. I felt really good, like there was a whole cloud just lifted. And actually, there's a lot of supporters that came out of the woodwork for me. - So, and you've been getting a lot of heat for some things that you said that I thought were very questionable, but whatever. - Whatever. - Let me read, let me read, let me read something here, 'cause this came from an individual that I met with. - I hope you had the camera on. - Active. - I'm gonna put my old man glasses on for this. Okay, here we go. And I had nicer glasses, I had really cool glasses, but I left them in the car, so I have things. - What you're gonna look at out here. The first time I went with a Joe Rogan, I had these really funky glasses and everyone was commenting on 'em, like, "Oh, seriously, those are the glasses." You're gonna use pointy on Joe Rogan. I was like, I thought I was a fashion, you know? Staying in here, we're some glasses. - You're great kids, like, I don't know this guy. - Yeah, I don't know. - I don't know him. - Well, to get him out from this more. - To get him out of this more. - Did you say that he had a mansion and a yacht? - Ah, he didn't say he had glasses, that's right. - Okay, here we go. And this, I know who this individual is. And he says, if you say, blah, blah, blah, blah, you might as well quote my name directly, so I said, please keep as written, yes, I will, okay. From a congressional source who is aware of his testimony, Jason Sands. Jason testified to three congressional committees and Arrow as a whistleblower. His military and intelligence community background, clearances and assignments were fully vetted. We were not, however, able to validate some details of his extraordinary testimony. However, Mr. Sands testimony did provide significant insights that were later validated by multiple military witnesses. - And who gave you this statement again without saying the actual person? - It was a congressional source. - Okay, yeah. And I met with this individual face to face multiple times. - Now, this is a little bit of a different kind of podcast, like we've had multiple people on here a bunch, but this is a little bit of a different one than we've ever done because your story's gonna be in the middle of this and that's really gonna be a focus. And then at some point, we're gonna come back around to a lot of things in the program, but we'll just do this live like we always do. So Jason, obviously James gave you a pretty good intro as far as what some of the high level, I guess, like public discourses right now surrounding you. But I really wanna get the full thing out there just so it can be there on the record and everyone out there listening can kind of decide for themselves and hear what you have to say and go from there. - So I got photographs of him in the military that I printed out so you can go through these pictures, hold him up and explain where you are, what you're doing, what your military credentials were at the time, but hold him up for the camera if you can. - Yeah, so your camera's gonna be right there. - Yeah, this one's when I was in Simba again. - Hold it up a little higher, maybe. - And this is me in my DO or who's kind of like the operations chief, he was squaring me in again for another reimbursement in this particular. - This was about 1990. - Okay, next one. - Now this is me training one of the younger troops. - Hold it up higher. - This is at Black Mountain, which is that place where the UFO incident of 1994 happened. - Not just before. - Yeah, just the location where the UFO flew by. - Sure. - There's a window there you were saying that you're blocking in the picture. Tell us what you would have seen out that window a couple days earlier. - Yeah. - Or what? I'm sorry, when that UFO image leaked out of now. - Yeah, 'cause there's windows on this wall and also along the other side of the wall. And my co-workers were up there the day the UFO came through and they saw it, several of them saw it. Some of the people are actually in other vehicles and things around the desert doing other things and they didn't see it, but the people that were in the school house. - Tell me, yeah, everyone out there, we're gonna come back to that. Like we're gonna go through that whole thing. I'm gonna want to start from the beginning a minute, but keep going with the pictures. - Is that okay? - Go to that one. - Sure, yep. - This is me with my commander at the unit that I had all of my experiences from. - Look at those specs. (laughing) Damn. - I had surgery later on, I had some lacy cat on my life. But yeah, I had those specs. Anyway, I was just receiving an award or a graduation, I believe it was, I didn't get it. Yeah, I was an award. So the commander just gave me an award for something great I did or some, I didn't think much of it, but people thought it. It was worthy of an award. - Okay. - And this is when I graduated the NCO Academy and yeah, it's my wife and I'm protecting her privacy to the public. But anyway, this is me at the graduation, they had a photographer for us, but this is, again, in Germany where I graduated from the NCO Academy. - What is this approximately? - This is just before, you think, just before Hawaii. So you're talking 2000 and one or two. - Okay, so this is several years before you leave the Air Force. - Right, right, right, right, okay. - Yeah, 'cause I left the Air Force in 2007. - Okay, and then there's two more documents. I'd love you just to quickly go through and we can get this out of the way. Okay, and that is, I think I have them, which talks about your special access program. Where are those? You have those in yours? - Do I have them here? - We've got them there. - What have passed them to you? - Here we go. - Okay, yeah, some of these I don't, it's, we have got, yeah. - These are raw documents, so I can't show the names and stuff. But I am gonna show you my own personal records, but these are from my career in the Air Force. Every year you have what's called a personal report, you have to have signed by your immediate supervisor and your commander and you know, he just go through and tell him, this is what I did this year, you know, here's the things that are not worthy to highlight. All right, so I provided these two genes and several other trusted individuals because they highlight some things that people have questioned me about, I think, most recently they questioned the fact that they had a guy that was supposed to be in my career field and claims that, oh, I couldn't possibly be in a special access program and take off every two weeks and nobody know. Well, dude, I'm sorry, I'm gonna embarrass you a bit. But anyway, that's what's in these documents here. So, read the ones behind it. We might have put them at the top of your stuff right here. Oh, they're in my stuff. Yeah, yeah. Let me use the ones that are high. This is really quickly, I think it's just important to establish some of his military records before. There you go. Get in. Yeah. Served as ComSec Operator on three, highly sensitive to the Air Force level, special projects missions, okay? Does it give a year range on? Yes, and on the backside of this, it shows you that this is where I worked. This is Nellis, okay? Yeah, so the year is that and then read the back. It tells you exactly where he was, Nellis test range. Okay, so I'm reading the highlighted part. Yeah, okay. Value to over 2.5 million. Entered into Analyst Upgrade Training, expertise in the area of readiness, disaster preparedness, plans and trainings have aided significantly in the units readiness posture. And then it says it does give the address for Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada. And I can see that your periods are 92 to 93. Exactly. And so here's another one. Also, this one also confirms, again, that I was doing this for years. If you look at that one, you see also the mention of the special access that I had. And if you flip it over, you can see again, this is from Nellis Air Force Base, my job there. And again, the dates in the date grouping, it's right, I always said this is who I was during those years. Okay. All right, this is great to have, by the way. So thank you for bringing this just so we have like the actual literal. Yeah, I definitely want you guys to look at it and read it yourself. He brought it in all of his records, so yeah. Of course, we're looking at some before too. The congressional staff members, Leslie Cain, Christopher Mellon, a number of other people that said, look, whatever he's saying, his clearance is checkout. He is who he says he was. He was where he says he was. And he's he's named classified programs that we've laid revalidated with multiple other witnesses. So leave it at that. So James, one of the things that I think makes your job really hard that, you know, it's almost like, how do you even get around this if you're going to try to investigate it? Is that you do have to talk with a lot of people who are from and around intelligence, right? Or high level military or whatever you may say. And, you know, I'm so fascinated by that subject matter. You know I've had somebody spooky people on here before. I like to hear them out, put my feds right where I could see them on camera and everyone else can listen and everyone judge for themselves. I understand it's a mixed bag. There's some things they say where I'm like, that's definitely bullshit. And there's other things they say where I'm like, maybe, you know what I mean? But I never know the motive on it. So I just kind of sit here and do the best I can to understand that. But you dealing with the guys like the Christopher Mellon's, dealing with guys like I've had in here, like Lulizando, dealing with any of these people that are unnamed sources that you have as well, dealing with people even in Congress who, you know, I guess we could say it this way, report to those people in a way and they wouldn't want to say that. But that's kind of how it is. You know, how do you grapple with trying to separate, you know, what is a siop-like subject matter that may be brought your way versus things that could actually be on the pathway of your investigation that you're looking for? Good question, and I totally get, and particularly as you get closer to the target, things get a little more lazy. right. And you get under attack and, you know, you don't know who to believe. I have the distinct advantage of having done extensive field research all around the world. And when I hear reports like what he's referring to, I remember hearing that Nellis test range footage leaked in the 90s. I was investigating UFOs making my first film from who, who did you hear from? On the internet. No, just making public news reported on in a news, some like tabloid news, news thing, but it was real. And I remember going, this is fascinating. Now, this is in the 90s. So I had heard about the tell us the Nellis test range leak back in the 90s, right? And I've reported on close encounters of the first kind, close encounters of the second kind, and close encounters of the third kind all around the world, right? And so I, when I, when I meet someone like Mr. Sands, I've got a lot of field research. For instance, you know, my time boots on the ground in Virginia, Brazil, crash retrieval program, capture of biologics, entities. So I go, all right, I can't just believe him because he says, or whatever he says, he says, right? I just, and I feel that way about anybody else, Louis Lozano, David Grasch, like, who do we know that what they does, what they say, align with my field research. And if it does, I have to think, okay, this might be true. If it's way out there to the right field or something, okay, more questionable. One thing I've learned in this field, I have that knee-jerk response. You hear something that sounds truly impossible, right? And you have this knee-jerk response, like this is, this is too unbelievable. This can't be, therefore, it isn't. I've learned after 30 plus years to suspend that judgment and at least listen and hear the people out, right? And so that's kind of my aromat. Now with Mr. Sands, this alleged encounter that took place in 1994, you got the video, you got the names, I'm not going to reveal them, but we have first and last names, documents that have leaked and on the, whatever, of other people that have witnessed it. They leaked. Yeah, like when they, like, you got access to the video, when the video leaked, other names leaked and I contacted a couple people that I trust, that I trust. Can I be, you know, getting light-sure? I could be, yeah. You trust them. Why did you trust them? Because I was the one that tracked them down and they refused to meet with me. They did not come to me. I went to them and I tried for years to get a meeting with them and kept trying and kept trying and kept trying and finally got a meeting, became kind of friends, had multiple meetings and then I kind of lean on them for advice on, "Hey, can you do some background on this and make you do background on that?" And I look for a sort of consensus among those various contacts. Did they know each other? A lot of the ones you're thinking of right now. I'm sure they know of each other, whether they're in direct contact, I don't know. But I asked them point blank, after I looked into this for eight months, what can I do? I can't improve that he had an encounter in the desert, but I, okay, you know, Jason's got some PTSD issues, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, well, I was really frustrated. I remember this is a couple of people I was talking with, did it happen or did it not happen in your opinion? Please, just, do you think it happened or not? And they're like, "We think it happened." And Christopher Malin was one of these people, saying any names, but we think it happened. And I was like, "Okay, all right. Well, based on that, I'm going to report on it and I'm going to hope that me reporting on it will encourage other people that we're potentially there, because now we have one person coming forward. We have video that's leaked. We have Nate. We're there at Nellis. We're there at Nellis, that video that leaked three days prior. So there was a UFO that was captured on sensory data. You can explain that one better. And then we, you know, and then, and then Jason, Sans coming forward. So maybe the other on-duty military personnel will come forward and say, "Yeah, that happened." Or, you know, what? Jason's full of doggy do-do, and it didn't happen. But one way or the other. Now, Jason was able to get a hold of one of the individuals. Yeah, we're going to talk about that. And he went dark, right? Yeah. He gave us, he gave us. I mentioned it. We'll get there on the timeline. I promise people we're going to go through all this. Yeah. You guys don't want to jump around. So, anyway, so that's just, because it's a very controversial thing. And it's very controversial when you're dealing with, you know, close encounters of a third kind period. I mean, I was terrified when I covered the Rua Zimbabwe case in 1994. The Lano at the school. Discussed that a lot in 138. Yeah. And I had, you know, I had Harry Reid and Podesta and all the, you know, other intel folks in the, the phenomenon. And I was like, as soon as they see the fact, because they wanted to review the film before they're going to give me a release for them, as soon as they see the fact that I've got reports of, you know, face-to-face contact with aliens at the school in Africa. People are going to be like, you need to take me out of this movie. Right. Yeah, I don't want to rehash all that for the people because we did do that in the past episode 138. It was like 17 minutes or 21 minutes into that. But that's a crazy case. Well, my boy is with Danny Sheehan a lot too. Yeah, reporting on those types of, the nature of those cases, you know, with not a lot of evidence, right? You got, I witness testimony. It's pretty much all you've got. Yeah. So, anyway. And those were children, though, too, which is interesting. Because, you know, when you have so many kids saying the same thing, and then you have John Mack, like psychologically evaluating them, not saying it doesn't mean it's not made up. But like, it's a little bit, yeah, that one keeps me up at night. Yes, pretty crazy. I'd like to talk to them, too, because I know that from my encounter that some of them claim that they had some kind of telepathic conversation and from my experience, I know there was like a residue information that I don't know where it came from. Residue information? Like, you know, when you joined a mind space, the way I felt it was that there were some part of that person that was overlaid onto me. And it was like, you know, it was almost like we were one mind for a bit. And I'd like to talk to some of those kids that were there and see if they have some residue memories of who they spoke to, because that's kind of how it felt with me, is that there were some leftover things that I'm like, well, it's not my life, you know, but this was from that telepathic. You know, it's interesting when I flew in some of the witnesses with the help of Randall Nicholson back in 2013. It was coming up on the 20th anniversary of the landing at the school and in aerial school and it's in Bobway. And a lot of the witnesses that came in, I was talking to them. They were married, schoolteachers, lawyers, and had partners. And they had not, they were like, well, we had to tell my husband, I had to tell my husband, he had to tell your husband, what? She goes, well, I told my husband about the incident. It's like, you're married with kids and you didn't tell your husband prior to that. No, no, we didn't. Why? Well, I was tired of defending it, you know, and I just quite honestly had to defend it. Yeah, just like I've, people looking at me with this incredible look on their face, like you're crazy. And I just, I got tired of talking about it. So I didn't talk about it. So I was like, you're married with kids and you didn't tell your husband about this and get, nope, and up until now. And he just told you, you just told a few years ago, your wife and your kids. Yes, yeah. All right. I kept my mouth shut, but you know, there was, so you didn't back when it happened. No, I did my good boy keep my mouth shut, but then I started seeing some things that I was concerned with. And that's when I went to Congress. Got it. So James, just as it, as it devils advocate here to play this out, you know, you talk about these guys, you had to track down and they wouldn't talk with you, wouldn't talk with you, and then they talk with you. And I think about this is very possible that the outcome is exactly what you said, but the other possible outcome is that they're like, holy shit. There's this guy who was like a bloodhound on the trail. Like he doesn't give up. He knows his shit about the phenomenon. He's a very, very, you know, respected name in that space. He's been investigating this stuff for years. He can roll off all these facts from around the world. He could be useful to us to fucking feed him some information because he's fiending for it. And that could be useful for whatever we're doing. That's a distraction from what's really going on here. Not to say like, oh, we're not alone in the universe. We're not to say that we're not not alone in the universe or something like that, but that there are other things that play here, i.e. I don't know reverse engineered DARPA weapons or things like that that are even from things of this earth that we don't want China and Russia. No, and we got from a human standpoint. So we're going to say, oh, look at the fucking green alien. And James Fox is going to be our guy to put the information out there that tries to push that narrative. Do you think that could happen with any of these guys? Well, yeah, good point. And I would say that when you've got someone like Mr. Sands or people that have appeared in my movie, right, a number of people, their exposure faces, right, and their names saying, look, you provide me with the necessary, like, clearance or immunity. And I'll provide all the level of detail you need to verify what I'm telling you, right. So the implications are so significant that we owe it to ourselves to make sure that these individuals, like take him, take how put off and a number of other people that have come forward, let's fight, let's inform Congress and let's fight to get these guys immunity and put them on under oath to testify to a bipartisan group of lawmakers publicly. Let's provide them with immunity and let's get the specifics. Let's verify. Let's prove or disprove what their claims are because the implications are not, they're so profound, not just for everyone within the United States. This is going to have a global impact, right. So yes, you have to in the back of your mind go, yeah, this could be. They could be, you know, but again, it aligns with my research in the field. That's [BLANK_AUDIO] I really can't emphasize that enough. So let's expose the fact that these folks, they want to, they're asking for immunity, please. I've got NDAs, I've signed all these security oaths. Please just give me immunity, put me on the stand. Let me take a light attestor, let me testify under oath to a bipartisan group of lawmakers. And I'll give you all the details you need to verify what I'm telling you. Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge, huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clip, full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.