Why UFO Disclosure Begins & Ends at the Pentagon... | James Fox

Welcome back, frickin' frack. Welcome to the jungle. ABC Wednesday. Abbott is back. It's gonna be the best year yet. Thank you, now we can finally turn this up. And everyone's going wild. Y'all think you run this school, but you don't. It's going great. Abbott Elementary. Anything can happen in the jungle, right guys? Season premiere Wednesday on ABC and stream next day on Hulu. Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. Mr. James C. Fox, it's been a couple years since you and I recorded those two podcasts when you had A Moment of Contact out. Yes. And, I always say A Moment of Contact, it's Moment of Contact, that's way better. Yes. But obviously since then, there has been a lot going on in your life personally and you have been making a brand new documentary in the process that has now come out, I think like a month ago, but doing the podcast tour and all that. There is a lot to unpack from that film, the program. The link will be down in the description of that as well. But you have brought here today, Mr. Jason Sands as well. Yes. Who was featured in the documentary and has been in the middle of like the internet controversy around some of the things that you have come out publicly, I believe in April, and then extensively through the documentary. So we will get into all that today, but it's great to have you back, sir. Up and hooking now. Thanks for having me back on. I am. One thing I want to say is that we can get into this later. I wanted to provide Mr. Sands an opportunity to provide some defense, you know, provide some of his credentials, his military records, things of that nature, because I am the one that accidentally ousted his name. He actually wasn't intending to come forward publicly. So I owe that to him, an opportunity. And because of my mistake, he's had to, you know, face some of the consequences. And it's been rough for him. And, you know, I've called him up. What are you talking about? You sound like a crazy guy. Please stop. You know, but I do want to, I'm excited to have this opportunity to let him at least have a voice and speak a little bit about, you know, his background and what he's experienced. But we can get into that later. Absolutely. We have the military records here and everything. So we'll get through all that. We'll go through your whole story. But as far as the background, the program goes, first of all, great documentary, as always. You did a great job. But this is something we had talked about this when you were here with us last, like you were in the process of making it. But what made you decide, like after doing Moment of Contact, which is a specific case down in Brazil, what made you decide to come up and really go straight into D.C. and try to focus on the government angle more than anything with the UFP phenomenon? Well, I think it was kind of a natural progression when I did the phenomenon, right? There was some discussion of crash retrieval. There was Roswell and there was hint sprinkled throughout a couple of hints, one of which was when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid admitted on camera during my sit-down interview with him that what had been released, the 2017 New York Times article revealing the secret Pentagon UFO program and some of the tapes that were walked out of the Pentagon was merely the tip of the iceberg, right? So that was a very profound and big significant statement. by the former Senate Majority Leader. I mean, he was a household name, right? So when I did Moment of Contact, that was, in my opinion, and I could be wrong, I think it may be a little bit ahead of its time because I remember people calling me going, James, you have this unprecedented level of access with intel folks. Senator Harry Reid had just publicly endorsed your movie that you featured in. You've got your feature Close Encounters of the Third Kind in. You've really been pushing the envelope. You've got a level of acceptance and access that you're quite honestly going to jeopardize by reporting on this alleged UFO crash case in Virginia, Brazil, where these live aliens are walking around the town being captured. You're going to sound like a nutcase and people are going to say, up the dosage of the medication that you're not on, right? Probably rightfully so. Honestly. So they were like, are you sure this is what you want to do? And I was like, you know what? I totally understand that position because I was there. I remember when I was investigating, when I was mapping out my second, let me repeat that, my second UFO documentary, turned out to be out of the blue. I never have a title for things when I first get started on them. And I had a partner, Tim Coleman, and it was probably 1999, maybe 2000, but probably 1999. And we were mapping out the film, like a concept idea. It was a new broad brushstroke. It's like, oh, we want to focus on bent waters and let's revisit this amazing case in Phoenix, 1997, March 13th, that massive flyover. And then he goes, oh yeah, mate, and there's this bloody amazing case that takes place in Brazil with these live aliens and this UFO crash and they're walking through the bloody town. And I'm thinking to myself. That's Charlie and it's always Sonny. They threw the town! I'm not kidding you. I literally said to myself, I said to myself, oh my God, I got to pick a new partner. I just, this guy's, this guy's lost his mind. I'm not kidding you. I was like, oh my God, I made a dreadful mistake. And I thought to myself, I'm not going to give this case one second of my time. Okay. Because come on, man. A tall tale, UFO crash, live aliens. Are you kidding me? Multiple live aliens. How could the whole world not know about it? This is impossible. This is an utter and complete, wasted time. No. When I finished, what was it? Years later, 22 years later, 23 years later, I finished the movie. Tim was living in Egypt and he reached out to me. I hadn't heard from him in a while. He goes, bloody well, mate, you just made a film about that entire case that I told you about in the late nineties. What the bloody hell? And he goes, you didn't believe me and you thought I was bloody crazy. And I was like, yes, I did. And I'm sorry. And I'm going to give you a special thanks credit. So I did. I gave him a special thanks credit. But isn't that funny? It was like, so anyway, so because people ask me, I was like, well, how did you get into the program? It's like, well, I never anticipated when I made Moment of Contact about a crash retrieval program, which I found out very late in the game that the United States government was involved. With Virginia. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of heard like rumblings of it. But while we were there the last time, in fact, Alessi was there with us. Alessi was producing the doc, wasn't he? Yeah, he was down there. A boy in the studio. He was down there in the trenches. We almost got shot in the face. Yes. And he filmed that. He did. And also he had the best haircut of all time. It's the greatest thing I've ever seen. So when you're watching Moment of Contact and you see the dude with the clipboard and fire head or whatever, that's Alessi. Yeah. Yeah. And that was probably, there were two times, when I had my life threatened in production. One was when I was releasing photographs that were given to me about the fishing community when I did a film on the BP oil spill. And they were using unprecedented amounts of Corexit. And the guy head of fisheries gave me these images that quite frankly were going to devastate his community. But he was like, "I can't in good faith let the general public not know about what's going on because of the poison." And he said, "You reveal my identity, boy. I'll hunt you down and slit your throat. Do we have an understanding?" I swear to God, he said that to me. And I was like, "I believe you." "Yes, sir, we do." And then the second time was when-- "They never gonna find you, boy." Dude, it was like Alabama. He's like, "We're gonna hunt you down and slit your throat. Do we have an understanding?" I said, "Yes, sir. Do they even have cops down there?" "Yes, sir. We definitely have an understanding." Guys, before we go on here, I want to make sure you know this is the first of two episodes that are coming with James and Jason. The second episode is coming Friday at 12:00 PM Eastern after this video was put out, so two days after this one. And essentially, this first one is an hour and a half covering the program and giving a little bit of color commentary background on Jason. And the second one is going to be almost three hours with James and Jason, where we go through Jason's entire life story from childhood on. I had announced this on social media over the weekend over on X, but I know you guys on YouTube didn't know that. So I wanted to make sure you knew another episode was coming. If you want to check it out before it drops, it is available. It's available on Patreon right now, link in my description. Back to the episode. So anyway, then the next time, of course, I don't speak Portuguese. I mean, now I can extract some words, but not in that moment when we confront the alleged driver, Eric Lopes, at his home, which I found out all the best hardcore Brazilian researchers, one of which would pack the gun everywhere he went. Pacaccini was like, "You went to his house? Are you out of your mind?" None of us would go to his house. I was like, "Well, nobody told me that." I'm one of the witnesses, to be clear. This is one of the witnesses that allegedly was driving the car during the second capture of a live alien. Yes. Wow. God, it even sounds crazy saying that. It does. It does sound crazy, I know. It does. Anyway, so my point is this. I could have never in 100 million years, after all the pushback I got when I said I was going to make this documentary on this alleged crash case that happened in 1996 in Virginia, Brazil, that months after releasing the film, there was going to be an open congressional hearing. with a bipartisan group of lawmakers listening to the testimony of a gentleman, high intelligence officer, under oath, saying that there's a crash retrieval program. Because I found out the Americans' involvement, again, I'd heard little rumblings of it over the 12-year period, but the most compelling aspect was that the flight control officer came forward publicly on camera in a podcast saying, I saw USAF, and I was like, USAF, the United States Air Force, plane coming in without Brazilian government authorization. That's you guys. And he was not supposed to let the thing land. And then a high-level government officer, this is what he says on camera, this guy Marco, I'm trying to think of his name. And when you're with the police department, you're with the military in Brazil. If you're with the fire department, you're with the military in Brazil. You're air control, flight control officer, you're with the military in Brazil, right? So this guy sees his plane coming in, he's like, they don't have authorization. I'm not supposed to let this plane. It's USAF, United States Air Force, January 20th, 1996, coming into Camp Penis. It was going to land in Sao Paulo, then it stopped and it diverted and went to Camp Penis. And a military officer, I know, it's funny, Camp Penis, Virginia. The number of times you said that in episode 139, and people were like, I feel like he's saying penis every time. Camp Penis, I know. Can't make that up. So I know, I know, it sounds silly. But anyway, he said that higher-level military. A military officer came in and let the plane land. Plane landed, I wasn't sure if it was one helicopter or two helicopters, went over to Virginia, loaded some stuff on, came back, loaded the plane, boo, back to the United States. I was like, oh, wow, that really solidifies my belief that the Americans were involved. So now it's personal, right? So when I'm starting an investigation, I was already going to go to D.C. and start asking questions. One of, if not the most common DMs I get on Instagram are many of you asking me what my favorite person is. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what my favorite books are. Well, today's your lucky day, because if you use the link in my description below to join my newsletter, I'm going to give you my top 10 book recommendations right now. Also, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make money producing content from the show, you can do so via the Discord link in my description below. And finally, you can join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes via the Patreon link in my description below. As always, please take one second to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. I really appreciate that. Also, the like button's a big help and you can join my newsletter via the link in the description below. But, David Grush opened the door for me. Yeah. Like, it was wide open. Now, I'm damn straight going to ask those questions because I came to that conclusion, not because he said it, but because my boots on the ground in it, which is what I think is the best case in modern history, because most of the people are still alive. Yeah, it was really cool to see this, like, as your friend in real time, because you went down to D.C. pre-Grush, you were there in like February 2023 getting initial interviews and things like that. And then it's almost like this movie you were working on, the stage of life set perfectly and you're like, oh, I can get all this now? Unbelievable. I know. A little bit of divine intervention. Could have never, and not only that, but who could have possibly have staged or orchestrated a drone invasion, a UAP invasion, to coincide with the release of my movie? People were calling me going, what kind of budget did you have to raise to do that? Much appreciated. You know, I had people calling me going, how did you orchestrate a drone invasion? I actually, you know, James, a little side note here, I just don't want to get this lost in the picture because you're such a humble guy and you've only said like a little bit publicly, but obviously us all talking, Alessi, you and me behind the scenes over the last couple of years, we were aware of some of the things you were dealing with from a production standpoint to get this done. But for people out there who want some details now that it is behind you, despite everything you all said to give up as well, but, you know, what went down there? Because this last documentary, Moment of Contact, you came on my podcast, it really exploded, and then Joe Rogan had you on and it went to a whole different stratosphere, literally right behind Avatar worldwide, and then suddenly they're like, oh, we can't pay you. Yeah. I have to tell you about this game-changing product I use before a night out with drinks. It's called Z-Biotics Pre-Alcohol. Pre-Alcohol is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings. After drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in your gut. It's this byproduct, not your dehydration, that's to blame for your rough next day. Pre-Alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. 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So remember to head on over to ZBiotics.com slash JULIAN and use code JULIAN at checkout to get 15% off your first order. Thank you to ZBiotics for sponsoring this episode and our good times. So that's just one of the things I was dealing with. So, um, excuse me. The production company that I'd signed a deal with, they'll probably remain nameless. Whatever, you can look that stuff up. We're going to take the bad out later. Yeah, I know, I know. So, so they got purchased, they got, they got acquired by a larger company and the larger company stopped paying royalties. Well, first they were really late and then they got later and I was getting really nervous. You know, I was like, you know, oh, this is going to be fine. Don't worry. You know, it's a trend. We're just, we're transferring all the stuff over and there's a little transition period and it's just a little bit of a hiccup and everything's going to be fine. Everything's going to iron itself out. Everything's going to be fine. Well, I didn't feel that way. So that starts happening and I rely and they had directly or indirectly all my movies distributed through this company, distribution company. All of them, right? So I had The Phenomenon. I had Moment of Contact. Out of the Blue. I Know What I Saw. 50 Years to Denial. They were through indirectly through another individual. But in any case, so this starts happening and while I'm trying to get interviews on the hill paralleling this disaster nightmare, I'm trying to get interviews on the hill and I'm literally having to send photos of production stills of me making The Phenomenon because staff members of Congress were going, no, hang on a second. This person said they made The Phenomenon. What? I'm like, no, I made The Phenomenon. This guy said what? And they're like, yeah, well, he already came through and interviewed. I was like, no, and I was sending literally production stills. And then there were all these military folks, intel folks that were told not to meet with me, to meet with this other individual who will remain nameless. This is going on. So I'm getting blocked. I'm getting all my financial support, all my finances completely devastated. And then paralleling that, I'm getting someone who's claiming responsibility for having done The Phenomenon who's in the process of getting all these interviews on the hill and I'm having to explain who the hell I am. Well, thank God Christopher Mellon stepped in and started to straighten the truth out. No, James made The Phenomenon. We love the Mellon family. They're always going to straighten it out. Well, Chris Mellon really stepped up the plate for me. And I was really grateful for it to having him to do that. So he was telling people, no, James made it. And then all these intel folks that were told not to meet with me. It was just a nightmare. And I just thought it felt like I was being extinguished. I mean, I just was like, I remember staring at the ceiling at the level of stress, I'm seeing the sales report come up, come in and remind you, I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars making every movie, right? So I'm always majorly in debt when I finish a movie and I'm seeing all these sales reports coming in. I'm not getting paid and I'm not getting paid and I'm not getting paid. Now I'm borrowing money to sue the company and I'm trying to make this film. And I remember like staring at the ceiling, I'm not kidding. This was so devastating. I'm staring at the ceiling, trying to go to sleep at night. I'm drinking a whiskey just to like calm my nerves and I'd fall asleep and I'd wake up at like four o'clock in the morning. And I was like, oh my God, I had the worst nightmare. God, thank God that was, oh my God. And then I'd slowly wake up and this was happening week after week. And the problem is, is like, I didn't have any end in sight. There was no resolution inside. I didn't know how it was gonna play out, right? So I actually called a buddy of mine and I borrowed $50,000 from him so I could sue the company. I was just trying to go through all the different, you know, I didn't know what to do. And finally the lawyer, and this went on forever, it went on for so many months. I won't bore your audience with the details, but finally this lawyer, my buddy, Jesse, calls me and he goes, look, bro, I'd like to continue taking your money, but I'm just telling you where this is headed. I'm looking at their financials and this is not going in the right direction. What's gonna happen is they're about to declare bankruptcy and then your assets, which are their assets, are now gonna be in the hands of another company that you have no leverage with. - And you're lower on the totem pole. - And I'm lower on the totem pole. And now you're not only gonna owe me a bunch of money, you're never gonna get that money. You're gonna get that money they owe you, which is lottery money, right? And I hate to say this, James, but I'm just gonna say going to give you the best advice play the tape play the game on the board not the one in your head it's a good lawyer take take take take this deal sign off all you're never going to get this money again i need you to respond via email that you understand that you will never ever get this money it's gone forever i have to get this distribution company to send their legal department has to send all the various platforms a legal letter to pull them down you think if they start pay if they stop paying me that automatically the rights would revert back to no no no every month i'm watching those sales reports and they're going in the in the in the in the pocket of a billionaire oh god the level of frustration i was experienced is like off the charts man yeah and i want people to understand that too i mean they're hearing it from you right now but like yeah you know for you to have all the success of that film and essentially never see more than a couple dimes from it i still owe a hundred thousand on that film i i i actually i actually was going to pay that back to uh one of my uh producers guy donnie and um donnie's been great to me over the deck over over well over a decade and i spent it thinking i had money coming in and then and then he's like well why did you spend i was like well i spent it on the program thinking that that i didn't know i was going to get ripped off i'm so sorry so i said why don't i just give you an executive producer credit in the program and he was cool thank god he was cool with that but but i remember at the time thinking welcome back freaking frack welcome to the jungle abc wednesday abbott is back it's gonna be the best year yet thank you now we can finally turn this up and everyone's going wild y'all think you run this school but you don't it's going great abbott elementary anything can happen in the jungle season premiere wednesday on abc and stream next day on hulu finding a doctor is hard enough finding the right doctor even harder someone who takes your insurance has an available appointment when you need one and feels like someone you can actually open up to that's where zocdoc comes in download the zocdoc app to search and compare doctors by specialty insurance and availability read real patient reviews find the right fit for you and book instantly because getting seen by the doctor matters. ZocDoc. Ready to be seen? Download the ZocDoc app today. It was so devastating. First of all, I like to hike. I was like, I go for my hikes every day just to kind of clear my headspace because the level of stress was just beyond just anything like, oh my God. So I would really get out there and hike. And I said, okay, James, this is a very low point in your career. I've had all this success and now I'm in this position. I can't believe this, but I'm going to take this frustration, this anger, and I'm going to focus it, laser-like precision. I'm going to produce a really good documentary. So I took all of that energy and I focused it into the program. And I worked 16, 17 hour days to the point where I could barely walk getting my ass back to the edit studio. And I pushed myself to the brink of death to produce the program. Listen, and I want to say this as someone who's seen a lot of this behind the scenes. And what happened here, one of my favorite clips we ever recorded is not a public clip. It was actually a 15 minute Patreon episode when you were in my, we were still in my parents' house back then when you were there. And that's the other thing, by the way, people want to know what a standup guy James Fox is. He calls me at 4 45 AM from the runway in Vermont going, they said the engine doesn't work on the plane. They're going to see if they can give it a go. And I'm like, that, that doesn't sound, promising at all. Obviously they gave it a go. Didn't work. Didn't crash the plane. And then flight gets canceled. And we had a lessee who still lived in Florida at the time. He had flown up for this and he was as broke as I was. So this was like a big deal. And so we're like, oh my God, this is going to get canceled. And you're like, fuck it. I'm driving. So you came down for two days, didn't even let me pay for your hotel. And we ended up recording for about five hours and 45 minutes on the second day. We did two podcasts and in the middle of that, which by the way, thank you for doing that. But in the middle of that, we had like a 15 minute Patreon episode where you walked us through essentially your career journey and then especially your eight year odyssey. And that's what I'll call it. Making the phenomenon, which for my money is the greatest UFO documentary ever made. Fucking phenomenal. It took you, it took you 25 years before that to get anywhere near the respect you deserved. You work jobs from valeting to plumbing to whatever it was, all these things just to support yourself, pay for these documentaries yourself around the world, try to make something great. And then finally shout out to Joe Rogan for giving you the respect on the phenomenon back in 2020 and putting you into the other sphere. You then took all that money, put your money where your mouth is, put it into moment of contact. And so again, like when I see how close it came to you almost having to be like, if this doesn't work with the phenomenon, I got to stop. Like my 25 year dream is over. It was unbelievable. To see that work and then see you get all the attention you deserve, make this amazing documentary moment of contact. And it's supposed to be your, your now crowning moment where like you can kind of go on in life and do the things you love and not have to worry about finances and stuff to see that stripped from you by scumbags, which is what they are. And, and to have, they're not going to have any, there's no repercussions, no repercussions, no legal repercussions whatsoever. To see that stripped from you though, disgust me that said the inspiration that you are to me. Like that clip, I go back and watch that sometimes. It's still on Patreon. It was the first Patreon episode we ever posted. And to see it puts in perspective what I do, what Alessi does, because we work our ass off. We've been doing 80, like he does 70, 80 hour weeks now too. He's been doing that for like a year and a half. I've been doing that for five years. And it's like, damn, James was doing this shit and working separate jobs for 25 years just to try to get the respect he long deserves. And like for all the creators out there who have a dream and want to do stuff, you're looking at a guy right here who needs to do it. You're looking at a guy right here who never lets anything defeat him. And you had to do it again since then. So shout out to you for doing that and for making another kick-ass documentary. Thank you. You know, I hope now we can be smooth sailing. I should have been laughing in my fifties, like, yeah, I did it. Instead I'm like, fighting for survival, like again. Here's the good news. I was like, well, I've been in the trenches my whole life. So I've been here before. I know how this feels. I know what it's like to be broke. I know what it's like to be completely panicked. I know what it's like not to even have a bank account. I didn't have a bank account when I first, I didn't have a bank account when I was making the phenomenon for three years. And I remember people going, what are you talking about? You don't have a bank account? I was like, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm not doing it to upset you. Like I don't have a bank account because taxes and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And if I put money in the bank, you know, it's gone. So I had to deal with all that. And it's gone. I was like, oh, I need that check so bad. I was so desperate. I was like, oh my God. I was like, I'm going to pay my cell phone, keep that from getting caught off. Then I got my heat bill. And I was like, oh God, you know, and then, so I put the, I got the check and I raced it to the bank. I didn't do the ATM. I went inside to make sure everything went smoothly. I put that check in the bank. The next morning I came to get some money out and she's like, sorry, sir, you have a zero balance. I was like, what are you talking about? I said, I put money in last night. Oh, well, you made a, you made a withdrawal. I said, no, I didn't. And then she's like, ooh, the IRS took it. You want to talk about a gut punch? It was like somebody punched me in the stomach with everything they had. And I remember thinking to myself, they didn't save me a dime, not a dime. They took all of it. James is like back to doing glory hole blowjobs. Let's go. And they didn't even save, like, they didn't take like 50% or like 70%. They took 100, every penny of it. Anyway. So yeah, so I've been there. So, you know, and it's funny actually, because I have this mentality of like, someone's going to come take this, the good stuff that I, that I did get away from me. You know, I paid cash for my, my kind of my dream car when I could. And, and when I got, when I bought a house, I just had, I had to pay for it. I had a chunk of money. I'd never had a chunk. I'd never had that before. Like I, it almost made me paranoid because everyone's like, you got to do this and you got to buy stuff. I'm like, I'm not a stock guy. No, I'm going to put it all into a house. I took the chunk and it's gone. But I felt good about it as an artist. You know, it's like, then at least it's in a house. Right. Yeah. Anyway. I was my neighbor when I was, when I was growing up. But the bottom line is here you are, you have maintained, I know obviously there's, there's real human struggles behind the scenes, but you have at least in every time we've talked, maintain your happy go lucky positive attitude the whole way. And it's, it's a good lesson because like, I think that's part of what gets you through and, and gets you this point. So. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. I don't talk about that aspect of it very often. And people think like, like I had this young filmmaker make a comedy. Well, you have it easy and everybody's. Everybody helps, wants to help you out and blah, blah, blah. I, I was like, you're in your twenties. I'm in my fifties. I've been in the trenches for 25, 30 years. I'm like, you need to. pay your dues buddy he's like yeah whatever i really really pissed me off and i just had to cool my jets and be like okay this guy doesn't know because i don't really talk about that often the like what i've been through to get to where i am not that i'm anywhere special but it's like i've you know i i set out to do dreams and i had to claw and fight and kick and scratch and fight my way all the way man yeah it's like nothing but a slew of obstacles in front of you try to get your go for your dreams right so yeah but when i finished the the phenomenon was the only movie i finished that i was like satisfied because you weren't satisfied with the ones before that nope i did uh 50 years of denial i was happy but i was like you know i did it that was intense i didn't realize i was in my 20s i was like i didn't i had no idea how hard that was going to be then i did out of the blue and i was moderately happy and i remember my partner boris was in a fetal position crying and i've been there too and his wife's looking at me like i'm she's like you're killing my husband you know and he's like you know james like everybody's so hard i've got no money so i'm not paying him so he's like broke and his wife's like what the hell i was like we gotta get this movie out man this is like everyone's at the end of the rope so i i released that film then i owned it again three years later when i got a letter from nbc universal and they're like we're not going to renew the broadcast option which i didn't expect them to do anyway so i owned it again and i revisited that film i think i spent another two and a half years on out of the blue i made a director's cut and then finished that again totally broke like end of my rope and it was like it's good but it's not what i envisioned it wasn't like what you you know you have this idea and it doesn't materialize necessarily as as you as you wanted to so i took another crack at it in my 30s uh mid 30s and i did um um i know what i saw mid to late 30s finished i know what i saw and i was kind of depressed because lion's gate almost bought it but then the people that at uh i think was not acquisitions but the people that go through the quality control reviewed it and they said that it had fallen short in production qualities and i remember thinking to myself that's i didn't get a deal with lion's gate because of that and it was devastated and i was like all right i'm not going to make that mistake again next time if i don't have the money to do it right i'll wait until i do so then that's why um the phenomenon took as i started when i was 43 you went all over the world too went all over the world yeah and i ran out of money at the time and i lost my bank account became a dad like all those things kept going kept going kept going kept going and when i finished it i watched it in the um in the in the uh in los angeles in a place called juniper post who does the audio work because we're going to be for the first time ever in movie theaters and everyone said to me if you want to be in a theater if your audio ain't right it's yep you got to have you need to hire an audio engineer and i was like what i've never hired an audio engineer you you don't all these pros you don't understand james you can't be in theater without proper sound the balance the modulation all the little microscopic surgery that the that these guys do he did it he was amazing and uh ben zurai and um uh i watched the film in that studio and i didn't watch it again for several years after that but i was like okay this is it yeah we got it we locked it down finally yeah that's the one that i've been trying to do since i was 24. yeah i mean it's the most comprehensive history of the modern ufo phenomenon yeah no pun intended and i wanted to i wanted to create a body of evidence that could transcend in a big way the ufo community no problem i'm part of the ufo community but what's the point of preaching to the choir i want to i want to be able to present a body of evidence to the mainstream to a much more mainstream audience so let them know that there's really something more than swamp gas and weather balloons to the phenomenon right and i did it i felt like we did it yeah i had a i look at the all the uh credits in the film most of them uh deserved it not all of them but uh but that's yeah that's another story all together all right yeah you're gonna blue balls us there i see it but you get that was you know you get to sit down with a guy like harry reed who oh it's amazing you know that's another story all together all right yeah you're gonna blue balls us there i see this long time center and everything and was was read in allegedly on on some of this stuff but that's where the initial idea for the program obviously comes from because you're doing this comprehensive history and you stumble upon the fact that there were official you know obviously you had the 2017 christopher mellon taking the documents out of the pentagon and going to new york times and bringing it public while you're making the phenomenon and then you're in the midst of making the phenomenon you're talking to people like harry reed and you're like holy shit we have to do this and then you're like oh my god we have to do this and then you're like oh my god we have to do this and then you're like oh my god we have to do this and then you're actual programs that are documented that look at this and nothing else you know so i mean were you thinking to yourself holy shit all these crash retrieval you know folklore all the way up to men in black because this is before you did moment of contact yeah might actually be based on something real because of what guys like harry reed were telling you you know it's it's kind of like uh i almost like pinched myself it's been a couple of uh times in my career where i've literally i'm in such a state of disbelief that i have to literally physically like kind of pinch myself because i'm going to that that really just happened like really and i remember the first time it happened with five simons and the former governor of arizona when he admitted after doing this whole spoof 10 years earlier where he had his a dressed up as an alien and he came out and mocked the whole phoenix lights case and everyone was so pissed off about that and um that was one time when he admitted i was like did i just hear what i think i heard like he just said he saw it and he investigated and then it wasn't of this earth he knew that just by the sheer size and you know and i remember like i literally reached down i was pinching myself going no i'm not sleeping this really happened i was pinching my leg and then i was like ah the camera's not rolling so i i looked over to see if the red light was still going on the camera you know one of those moments and when harry reed said to me because i remember i was being somewhat conservative it was a huge moment in my career like you might imagine right oh yeah and um i don't think anybody had gotten i mean that was the biggest sit-down interview he ever gave because he got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer yeah after it happened yeah and so i said you're telling me something like this you're telling me that what's been released the videos that were making the headlines all across the world you're telling me that the evidence has been released uh that there's more or something like that and he goes uh was it like the vast majority or it's just a tip of the iceberg some extremely profound statement like it you always suspect it but to have that level of confirmation by that level of of person on camera wow that was an incredible moment in my career it was like oh my god all these things that we've been hearing at roswell and kingman arizona and aztec and virginia and just all this stuff it's like this changes everything like if you think about it because you know people often ask me like why do i keep pushing what's wrong with you you're just obsessed you know and i say to them like well imagine imagine if this stuff is true imagine if we have hardware from an alien species i say alien because i don't know where they're in whatever they are but they're alien to us if we have hardware in bodies how significant of a story would you give that and everybody goes holy shit it doesn't matter what your political background you're you're what what your religious whatever all around the world everyone says the most significant story period right of course so i am convinced that it's going down and it's a very difficult story to walk away from and quite frankly i'm not going to ever walk away from it until it's out and it's coming and it's coming out what's coming the story's coming out needs to yeah yeah it's coming i mean it's it's coming out yeah one one of the things back in the bottle so one of the things you've talked about jason is that you're not going to walk away from it that there's a difference between disclose i want to get this right difference between disclosure and national security interests something like that when it comes to the phenomenon are you basically saying that if we had evidence that they're that literally that we are not alone in the universe people have a right to know that at a broad level whereas the things that may be more finite within that that would impact our national security they don't yes that's kind of how i feel about it too just that yeah there's a difference between a weapon system from a technology be it from our own making or exotic retrieval kind of stuff where that needs to stay classified but the disclosure should be that yeah we do have other things that we don't know where they come from or we do know where they come from and these are the entities and yeah people need to kind of know about this because it's it's a big deal for us as a race to just realize that we're not alone in this universe absolutely you know i mean it's a big deal for us as a race to realize that we're not alone in this universe absolutely you know i impact um and to me that's a right for everybody to know or not know and accept or not accept well so expanding on what you just said because a lot of people go you know any statistician will tell you that the odds of us being alone in the universe is is you know we're not 100 there's other life the question is is it coming here of course i'm convinced it is and i'm sure i'm 100 yeah i've seen it i know yeah i wish everybody else could know what i'm talking about but i'm and have experienced it, and then they'd all be like, "Oh yeah, this is serious." um can we talk a little bit about his uh because i know i want to provide a little bit of a platform so he can defend himself a little bit and i'm not sitting there you know holding jay up on a platform but i'm the reason why he's coming forward i'm the reason why he got exposed it was my mistake he did an on-camera interview with me we're going to mask his identity primarily but primarily because it was a security insurance thing he shakes his head like yeah good job he was dealing in 2020 2021 2022 he was having meetings in skips i'm guessing yes and meetings in skips with congressional staffers or people part of the task force or uap task force folks yeah folks investigating on the hill yeah and they introduced me to the congress and both senate and house all that stuff and i met personally with a couple of those people because i was like i'm i need to know that this guy's been vetted and you know so i've been me i was meeting with in fact i've got a in fact let me read this right now because this is the time where i'd want to do it before you go on though i just wanted to say really quick yes you know you mentioned the time when you accidentally put my name out there yes it's actually turned into a blessing in disguise because as you know at that point i hadn't got my adopter yet and explain yes well that's going to be the the pre-publication where if you're an intel person you have to ask you know for everything to be reviewed and that's what i had to do is get that adopter is an acronym for like pre-publication pre-publication yeah so that i can i knew that the subject matter that i could talk to publicly uh-huh so that's that was kind of something i was still working on but um when i had to go public it was it was fine though i felt really good like there was a whole cloud just lifted and um actually there's a lot of supporters that came out of the woodwork for me so so uh and you've been getting a lot of heat for some things that you said that i thought were very questionable but whatever whatever let me read let me read let me read something here because this this came from an individual that i met with you had the camera on active i'm going to put my old man glasses on for this okay here we go and i had nicer glasses i had really cool glasses but i left them in the car so it was wrong what you're looking at here i remember the first time i went on joe rogan i had these really funky glasses and everyone was commenting on them like dude seriously those are the glasses you're gonna be sporting on joe rogan i never thought it was a fashion you know statement here to wear some like i don't know this guy yeah i don't know him to give him credit you just said he had a mansion and a yacht okay here we go and this i know who this individual is welcome back freaking frack welcome to the jungle abc wednesday abbott is back it's gonna be the best year yet thank you now we can finally turn this up ah and everyone's going wild y'all think you run this school but you don't it's going great abbott elementary anything can happen in the jungle right guys season premiere wednesday on abc and stream next day on hulu at zoc doc we know you care about your health you wouldn't do that early morning cardio if you didn't so the fact that your annual physical is overdue just shows how hard it can be to get seen by a doctor sorry that doctor's not a network press one for more options you've reached us outside normal business hours the next availability is in three months but zoc doc makes finding the right doctor easy download the app and search by specialty insurance and availability read real patient reviews then book instantly zoc doc ready to be seen and he says if you say blah blah blah blah you might as well quote my name directly so i said please keep as written yes i will okay from a congressional source who was aware of his testimony jason sands jason testified to three congressional committees and arrow as a whistleblower his military and intelligence community background clearances and assignments were fully vetted we were not however able to validate some details of his extraordinary testimony however mr sand's testimony did provide significant insights that were later validated by multiple military witnesses and who gave you this statement again without saying it without saying the actual person uh it was uh congressional source okay yeah and i met with this individual face-to-face okay multiple times now this is this is a little bit of a different kind of podcast like we've had multiple people on here a bunch but this is a little bit of a different one than we've ever done because your story is going to be in the middle of this and that's really going to be a focus and then at some point we're going to come back around to a lot of things in the program but we'll just do this live like we always do so jason obviously james gave you a pretty good intro as far as what some of the high-level i guess like public discourses right now surrounding you but i really want to get the full thing out there just so it can be there on the record and everyone out there listening can kind of decide for themselves and and hear what you have to say and go from there so i got photographs of him in the military that i printed out so you can go through these pictures hold them up and explain where where you are what you're doing what your military credentials were at the time but hold them up for the camera if you can yeah so your camera's gonna be right there yeah this one's when i was in symbol a little higher maybe yep and uh this is me and my uh uh do or who's kind of like the uh operations chief uh he was swearing me in again for another re-enlistment in this particular this was about 1990. okay next one uh this is me training one of the younger troops hold it up higher this is at black mountain which is that place where the ufo incident of 1994 happened uh yeah just the um just the location where the ufo flew by there's a window there you were saying that you're blocking in the picture tell us what you would have seen out that window a couple days earlier yeah or what i'm sorry when that ufo image leaked out of now yeah because there's windows on this this wall and also along the other side of the wall um and that my co-workers were up there the day the ufo came through and they uh saw it uh several of them saw it um some of the people are actually in other vehicles and things that around the desert doing other things and they didn't see it but the people that were in the schoolhouse tell me yeah everyone out there we're going to come back to that like we're going to go through that whole thing i'm going to want to start from the beginning a minute but keep going with the pictures all right so go to the next picture yep uh this is uh me with my commander at the unit that uh i had all of my experiences from look at those specs damn i had i had surgery later on had some lasik uh later on in life but uh yeah had those specs so uh anyway i was just receiving an award or graduation i believe it wasn't yet yeah it was an award so this is the commander just giving me an award for something great i did or so i didn't think much of it but uh people thought it was worthy of an award okay and this is when i graduated the nco academy and um yeah that's my wife and i'm protecting her privacy to uh the public but anyway yes this is me at the graduation they had a photographer for us but this is again in germany where i graduated from the nco academy when is this approximately this is just before um i think just before hawaii so you're talking two thousand and one or two okay so this is several years before you leave the air force right right right okay yeah because i left the air force in 2007. okay and then there's two more documents i'd love you to get this out of the way okay is and that is uh i think i have them which talks about your special access program um where where are those you have those in yours do i have them here i'm gonna go i'm gonna pass them to you here we go okay yeah some of these i don't this it's uh we have got yeah these are raw documents so i can't show the names and stuff but uh i am going to show you my own personal records but these are from my career in the air force um year you have what's called a personnel report that you have to have signed by your immediate supervisor and your commander and you know you just go through and tell them this is what i did this year you know here's the things that are noteworthy to highlight all right so um i provided these to james and several other trusted individuals because they highlight some things that people have questioned me about i think most recently they questioned the fact that they had a guy that was supposed to be in my career field and claims that oh i couldn't possibly be in a special access program and take off every two weeks and nobody know well dude uh i'm sorry i'm gonna embarrass you a bit um but anyway uh that's what's in these documents here so read the ones we highlighted we might have put them at the top of your stuff oh they're in my stuff yeah yeah let me use the ones that are high just really quickly locate i think it's just important to establish some of his military records before you go get it yeah served as comsic operator on three highly sensitive secretary of the air force level special projects missions okay does it give a year range yes and on the back side of this it shows you that this is where i worked this is nellis okay yeah so here the years that and then read the back it tells you exactly where he was nellis nellis test range okay so i'm reading the highlighted parts right okay valued over 2.5 million entered into analyst upgrade training expertise in the area of readiness disaster preparedness plans and trainings have aided the unit's readiness posture and then it says it does give the address for nellis air Air Force Base in Nevada and I can see the year periods are what you're saying 92 to 93. Exactly and so here's another one also this one also confirms again that I was doing this for years if you look at that one you see also the mention of the special access that I had and then if you flip it over you can see again this is from Nellis Air Force Base my job there and again the dates in the date grouping it's right when I've always said this is who I was during those years. Okay all right this is great to have by the way so thank you for bringing this just so we have like the actual literal government documents. I definitely want you guys to look at it and read it yourself. He brought it in all of his records. Of course we were looking at some before too. The congressional staff members Leslie Kane, Christopher Mellon, a number of other people that said look whatever he's saying. His clearances check out. He is who he says he was. He was where he says he was and he's he's named classified programs that we've later validated with multiple other witnesses so leave it at that so. James one of the things that I think makes your job really hard yeah that you know it's almost like how do you even get around this if you're going to try to investigate it is that you do have to talk with a lot of people who are from and around intelligence right or high-level military or whatever you may say and you know I'm so fascinated by that subject matter you know I've had some of these spooky people on here before I like to hear them out put my feds right where I could see them on camera and everyone else can listen and everyone judge for themselves. I understand it's a mixed bag there's some things they say where I'm like that's definitely bullshit and then there's other things they say where I'm like maybe you know what I mean but I never know the motive on it so I just kind of sit here and do the best I can to understand that but you dealing with the guys like the Christopher Mellons dealing with guys like I've had in here like Luella's. Sandoe dealing with any of these people that are unnamed sources that you have as well dealing with people even in Congress who you know I guess we could say it this way report to those people in a way and they wouldn't want to say that but that's kind of how it is you know how do you grapple with trying to separate you know what is a PSYOP like subject matter that may be brought your way versus things that could actually be on the pathway of your investigation that you're looking for. Good question and I totally get that's a particularly as you get closer to the target things get a little more hazy right and you get under attack and you know you don't know who to believe. I have the distinct advantage of having done extensive field research all around the world and when I hear reports like what he's referring to I remember hearing that Nellis test range footage leaked in the 90s I was investigating UFOs making my first film. From who? Who'd you hear from? On the internet like it was just public. It was reported on in a news some like tabloidy news news thing but it was real and I remember going this is fascinating this is in the 90s so I'd heard about the Nellis test range leak back in the 90s right and I've reported on close encounters of the first kind close encounters of the second kind and close encounters of the third kind all around the world right and so I when I when I meet someone like Mr. Sands I've got a lot of field research. For instance you know my time boots on the ground in Virginia Brazil crash retrieval program capture of biologics entities so I go all right I can't just believe him because who he says or whatever he says he says right I just and I feel that way about anybody else Lou Elizondo David Grush like who do we know that what they does what they say align with my field research and if it does I have to think okay this might be true if it's way out to the right field or something okay a little more questionable one thing I've learned in this field I have that knee-jerk response you hear something that sounds truly impossible right and you have this knee-jerk response like this is this this is too unbelievable this this this can't be therefore it isn't I've learned after 30 plus years to suspend that judgment at least listen and hear the people out right and so that's kind of where I'm at now with Mr. Sands this alleged encounter that took place in 1994 You got the video. You got the names. I'm not going to reveal them, but we have first and last names, documents that have leaked and whatever of other people that witnessed it. They leaked publicly like you got access to them? When the video leaked, other names leaked. Okay. And I contacted a couple of people that I trust, that I trust. Could I be getting the light? Sure, I could be. Yeah, definitely. But you trust them. Why do you trust them? Because I was the one that tracked them down, and they refused to meet with me. They did not come to me. I went to them, and I tried for years to get a meeting with them, and kept trying and kept trying and kept trying, and finally got a meeting, became kind of friends, had multiple meetings, and now I kind of lean on them for advice on, hey, can you do some background on this, and hey, can you do some background on that? And I look for a sort of consensus among those various contacts. Do they know each other? A lot of the ones you're thinking of right now? I don't know if they know of each other, whether they're in direct contact. I don't know. But I asked them point blank, after I looked into this for eight months, what can I do? I can't prove that he had an encounter in the desert, but I, okay, you know, Jason's got some PTSD issues, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, well, I was really frustrated. I remember this happened to a couple of people I was talking with. Did it happen or did it not happen, in your opinion? Please, just do you think it happened or not? And they're like, we think it happened. And Christopher Mellon was one of these people who said that? I'm not saying anything. I'm not saying any names, but we think it happened. And I was like, okay, all right. Well, based on that, I'm going to report on it, and I'm going to hope that me reporting on it will encourage other people that were potentially there. Because now we have one person coming forward. We have video that's leaked. We have Nate. Who were there at Nellis. Who were there at Nellis, that video that leaked three days prior. So there was a UFO that was captured on sensory data. You can explain that one better. And then Jason Sands coming forward. So maybe. Maybe the other on-duty military personnel will come forward and say, yeah, that happened. Or, you know what? Jason's full of doggy doo-doo, and it didn't happen. But one way or the other. Now, Jason was able to get a hold of one of the individuals. Yeah, we're going to talk about that. And then he went dark, right? Yeah, he ghosted me after I mentioned it. We'll get there on the timeline. I promise people we're going to go through all this. I just don't want to jump around. So anyway, so that's just because it's a very controversial thing. And it's very controversial when you're dealing with, you know, close encounters. It's a third kind, period. I mean, I was terrified when I covered the Rua Zimbabwe case in 1994. The landing at the school. Discussed that a lot in 138. Yeah. And I had, you know, I had Harry Reid and Podesta and all the other intel folks in the phenomenon. And I was like, as soon as they see the fact, because they wanted to review the film before they're going to give me a release form. As soon as they see the fact that I've got reports of, you know, face-to-face contact with aliens at a school in Africa. People are going to. They're going to be like, you need to take me out of this movie, right? Yeah. I don't want to rehash all that for the people because we did do that in the past episode 138. It was like 17 minutes or 21 minutes into that. But that's a crazy case. And I discussed it with Danny Sheehan a lot, too. Yeah. Reporting on those types of the nature of those cases, you know, with not a lot of evidence, right? You've got eyewitness testimony. It's pretty much all you've got. Yeah. So anyway. Those were children, though, too, which is interesting. True. Because, you know, when you have so many kids saying the same thing. Yeah. It was a. And then you have John Mack, like, psychologically evaluating them. I'm not saying it doesn't mean it's not made up, but, like, it's a little bit. Yeah. That one keeps me up at night. Yeah. It's pretty crazy. I'd like to talk to him, too, because I know that from my encounter that some of them claim that they had some kind of telepathic. Yes. Conversation. And from my experience, I know there was, like, residue information that I don't know where it came from. Residue information? Like, you know, when you join a mind space, the way I felt it was that there were some part of that person that was overlaid onto me. And it was like, you know, it was almost like we were one mind for a bit. And I'd like to talk to some of those kids that were there and see if they have some residue memories of who they spoke to, because that's kind of how it felt with me, is that there were some leftover things that I'm like, well, that's not my life, you know, but this was from that telepathy. You know, it's interesting. When I flew in some of the witnesses with the help of Randall Nickerson back in 2013, it was coming up on the 20th anniversary of the landing at the school, an aerial school in Zimbabwe. And a lot of the witnesses that came in, I was talking to them. They were married, schoolteachers, lawyers, and had partners. And they had not, they were like, well, we had to, I had to tell my husband, I had to tell my husband. He had to tell your husband what? She goes, well, I told my husband about the incident. I was like, you're married with kids and you didn't tell your husband prior to that? Yeah. No, no, we didn't. Why? Well, I was tired of defending it, you know, and I just quite honestly had to put it in. Defending it. Yeah. Just like people looking at me with this incredulous look on their face, like you're crazy. And I just, I got tired of talking about it. So I didn't talk about it. So I was like, you're married with kids and you didn't tell your husband about this? Nope, I didn't. Up until now. And he just told, you just told a few years ago, your wife and your kids. Yes. Yeah. All right. I kept my mouth shut, but yeah, there was. So you didn't back when it happened? No, I did my good boy. Okay. I kept my mouth shut, but then I started seeing some things that I was concerned with. And that's when I went to Congress. Got it. So James. just as a devil's advocate here to play this out, you know, you talk about these guys you had to track down and they wouldn't talk with you, wouldn't talk with you. And then they talk with you. And I, and I think about this, it's very possible that the outcome is exactly what you said, but the other possible outcome is that they're like, holy shit, there's this guy who was like a bloodhound on the trail. Like he doesn't give up. He knows his shit about the phenomenon. He's a very, very, you know, respected name in that space. He's been investigating this stuff for years. He can roll off all these facts from around the world. He could be useful to us to fucking feed him some information because he's fiending for it. And that could be useful for whatever we're doing. That's a distraction from what's really going on here. Not to say like, we're not alone in the universe or not to say that we're not, not alone in the universe or something like that, but that there are other things at play here. I E I don't know, reverse engineered DARPA weapons or things like that, that are even from things of this earth that we don't want China and Russia knowing we got from a human standpoint. So we're going to say, Oh, look at the fucking green alien. And James Fox is going to be our guy to put the information out there that tries to push that narrative. Do you think that could happen with any of these guys? Well, yeah, good point. And, uh, I, I would, I would say that when you've got someone like Mr. Sands or people that have appeared in my movie, right. A number of people, they're exposed their faces, right. And their names saying, look, you provide me with the necessary, like clearance or immunity. And I'll provide all the level of detail you need to verify what I'm telling you. Right. So the, the, the implications are so significant that we owe it to ourselves to make sure that these individuals like take him, take how put off and a number of other people that have come forward. Let's fight. Let's inform Congress and let's fight to get these guys immunity and put them on under oath to testify to a, a, a bipartisan group of lawmakers publicly. Let's provide them with immunity and let's get the specifics. Let's verify, let's prove or disprove what their claims are because the implications are not, there are so profound, not just for everyone within the United States. This is a, this is going to have a global impact, right? So yes, you have to, in the back of your mind, go, yeah, this could be, they could be, you know, but again, it aligns with, you know, the, again, it aligns with my research in the field. That's I really can't emphasize that enough. So let's expose the fact that these folks, they want to, they're asking for immunity, please. I've got NDAs. I've signed all these security oaths. Please just give me immunity. Put me on the stand. Let me take a lie to test or let me testify under oath to a bipartisan group of lawmakers. And I'll give you all the details you need to verify what I'm telling you. Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge, huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clips full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below. Welcome back fricking frack. Welcome to the jungle ABC Wednesday. Abbott is back. It's going to be the best year yet. Thank you. Now we can finally turn this up and everyone's going wild. It's going great. Abbott elementary. Finding a doctor is hard enough. Finding the right doctor, even harder. Someone who takes your insurance has an available appointment when you need one and feels like someone you can actually open up to. That's where ZocDoc comes in. Download the ZocDoc app to search and compare doctors by specialty insurance and availability. Read real patient reviews, find the right fit for you and book instantly because getting seen by the right doctor matters. ZocDoc ready to be seen. Tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college. That's why she shops at BJ's wholesale club saving up to 25% off grocery store prices, beef jerky, microwave meals, laundry pods. 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