Why Trump's Got Reasons to Slip Natalie Harp Cash

Why are they getting this money? I know that in the past, in other situations, Trump has come up with amounts of money at certain moments when he felt he was not covered enough. These people know, are privy to so much inside of Donald Trump's very small bubble. We're gonna give you an additional $45,000, which will be accounted for as a bonus or whatever way it needs to be. It's a very problematic, how do you enforce an NDA when you're in a political situation, when you're essentially on the payroll of the United States government, the people's payroll, you might say. We should say that this is my theory on this, theory of the case based on what he has done in the past. Michael. Joanna. Back in the studio. Back in business. Yeah, back in America. It's very exciting to be back. We have so much to get through. We've got the cash. What is the cash about for Natalie Hart, Margot Martin, Chamberlain Harris, and Walton Nauta? Is it Nauta? The guy that cuts his hair. And the guy who was also indicted with him in Florida for the stolen papers. That's right, the classified. The classified documents, they moved down there. So we're going to discuss why is Donald Trump paying Natalie Hart $45,000 in cash. And on this, I have a theory. So stay tuned. We have the Trump-a-loser in Dallas. And who's going. How are we saying that? Trump-a-loser, Trump-a-loser, Trump. Oh, that's good. Trump-a-loser. I like it. Yeah, well, the Trump-a-loser. So who's going there? Who's not going there? Why is it half empty? And they keep pretending it's full. We've got the photos. It's from Sarah Ewell Weiss from our Washington bureau who's been down there and shows the stadium basically half empty. And, of course, we're going to start off talking about this. I'll never forget two firemen. We thought it was coming down on top of us, the two firemen, big, strong guys. And I'm not the smallest guy in the world. They grabbed me under the arm and said, got to get out of here. It's a solemn day. It's 25 years since 9-11. We were both working together. 25 years. 25 years gone past in a whistle, in a whistle. But that video, I mean, we remember covering 9-11. You were pregnant, correct? I was eight months pregnant. We were at New York Magazine. It was my second week. And Donald Trump was not running around 9-11. I did a good part of the coverage of 9-11. Of 9-11 for New York Magazine, including, I mean, Donald Trump says he was down there. I was down there. And I remember this, and this was an extraordinary day. And with enormous disarray getting into the office, the editor-in-chief, we couldn't get her on the phone for a period. Remember, all of the phones were out. And then I came into the office. You were in the office. The executive editor, John Homans, an old dear friend of mine, was there. And it was like, well, what do we do? And, you know, I mean, this is New York Magazine. This was from, you know, thinking of all of the things that 9-11 would mean when you're in the news business. You think, you know, what do we do? And I remember very clearly thinking, and this is New York Magazine, this is, we've got to get there. And I got John Homans, John Homans and I then decided, there was another person in the office, I recall, who kept saying, why do you want to go down there? I was desperate to go down there, but I was eight months pregnant, and I was nervous about going down. Yeah, well, as well you should have. I mean, everyone, and then, I mean, we were just acting in the moment on all of this. And John Homans and I went out, I mean, went out, I remember we went outside the building, New York Magazine was then at. 50th and Madison. Madison and 53. We went out the building without any plan whatsoever. And, I mean, this was, I think, probably about a half an hour after both towers had collapsed. And everyone, there was like a massive peep, massive humanity coming up, uptown, on foot, largely, but the traffic was packed too. And then we started to head downtown. How do we get downtown? And we actually hailed a police car, and the police car picked us up. And then we went down, sirens blaring to as close as we could get to the World Trade Center. And, I mean, it was already, it was just a dust cloud. Already, there were ambulances from kind of converging from, I think, from the entire tri-state area. So, by the time we left, there were hundreds, maybe a thousand. Well, there were lines of ambulances, weren't there, lining the avenues? Yeah, I mean, just ready to pick up the wounded. And then, of course, that shock when they were just there, because there were no. No wounded. Everyone was. Everyone was dead. Everyone had either gotten out safely or was dead. But then, you know, and then we came back. I remember just covered, you know, it's kind of people talking about the effects of that air and that dust that crosses my mind, because we were white with it. And then we. We, you know, I mean, that was, I guess we, I mean, our coverage certainly went on for weeks and weeks, and I was deeply involved with that. And so, two things, two relevant things. Never once did an anecdote about Donald Trump surface. I mean, I remember it quite well, because it was such an extraordinary few weeks, and I just joined the magazine, so everything felt particularly sort of. Sort of strange to me. And I don't remember us ever doing anything about Donald Trump. I don't remember him coming up. What I do remember is all the restaurateurs down there. I mean, there was Danny Meyer, there was David Boulay. I mean, everybody getting restaurants up and running to feed the workers. I mean, I think they did one and a half million free meals for rescue workers. Now, I have a point of information about this, because in the aftermath of 9-11, I spoke to Donald Trump. Now, I often heard from Donald Trump, and this was a kind of a sort of a running amusement, that Donald Trump would call all of the time to either complain about something the magazine had said about him, or more often than not, complain that he wasn't mentioned in a story. And in that aftermath of 9-11, he called, and he had, he was planning to donate, he had money. And I mean, it was a lot of malarkey, Donald Trump malarkey. Well, he was trying to wedge his way into the story. Trying to get into the story. And his way into the story is, I'm going to support this, and I'm giving this to the firemen and stuff, money I'm sure that has never materialized. But at no point did he say, I was down there, and this was my experience. Not present in what he was talking about. If a genie gave me three wishes, I would use all my wishes to wish for my cats to live forever. 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Try Smalls and get 60% off your cat's first order, plus free shipping and free treats for life when you go to smalls.com slash head. One last time, that's 60% off your first order, plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com slash head. Well, it's very clear. I mean, if you went on social media this week, no one believed that he was actually down there helping people. I mean, his claim that he'd gone down, he'd taken his crew. I mean, the thing that I think people do remember is that after the two towers came down, he called one of the networks and said, I now have the tallest building, 40 Wall Street. And so he was boasting about having now the tallest building in downtown because the other two have been taken out of the sky. I mean, I hesitate to say it's extraordinary about Donald Trump because it's all extraordinary. But this is a lie. And the man does nothing but lie. Right. But you would think that this lie approaches the truly sacrilegious. Well, the sort of stolen valor of it's like stealing someone else's medal. You think of all the people that did go down there, you know, all the rescue workers, the essential workers, the nights they spent there. The person I remember the most was the priest for the fire brigade, Michael Ryan, who had a terrible heart attack on the spot and died because it was, as Rudy Giuliani said, you know, might be too much for us to bear. And then, of course, you've got the tragedy of what happened to Rudy Giuliani. That Trump sucked him into his terrible wake and a man who actually had risen to the occasion. Although, do you remember Al Sharpton saying Bozo the Clown could have risen to that occasion? But Rudy Giuliani, who had a moment of greatness. I don't really think that. You know, I think that that was, I mean, that was that moment that spoke to what Rudy could offer. Rudy Giuliani is, continues to be, and hysterical. That's what he does. It's all hysteria, except that that that has a funny thing of reversing itself when everyone else is hysteric in hysteria. Right. For the hysteric, that becomes a moment of calm. And he was. That was what that was. You know, Rudy Giuliani at that point for those weeks was a calm voice. Yeah, a calm voice told everybody go out, go shopping, eat out in restaurants. Keep New York City going. All of, you know, advice, which was good advice. Everybody went out and did it and as much as they could. I mean, it was a really remarkable time. Remarkable time. And so for Donald Trump to sort of wedge his way in and start shouting that he was there and he was down there helping the rescue workers, what nonsense. And as you say, it's a sort of sacred, it's almost a sacred thing that he has violated. Yeah, no, I mean, we could, we can. I'm sure we can go further. And, you know, 9-11, which led to Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, destabilization, the destabilization path that I think you can reasonably argue was one of the things that leads to the Donald Trump presidency. Yeah, well, catastrophic overreaction. And by Bush, by George W. Bush, who was then held hostage by Donald Rumsfeld. And Dick Cheney. And yet, weirdly, what has Donald Trump done? But according to J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio this week, he's got himself into a war which may now last his term. They don't think that we're going to get out of it before the end of Donald Trump's second term. Neither does Pete Hexen. He's been stealthily moving American troops to the region. Exactly that. We've gotten into a war which has exhausted enough of our resources that we are unable to support what I think is this enormous historic opportunity, which is that the Ukrainians have been on the verge of essentially defeating the Russians and Vladimir Putin. And instead, we're now giving the Russians because we can't aid the Ukrainians. Because we've exhausted our munitions. We're losing the opportunities to stop Russia and giving them an advantage, which they may take and which they are taking across Europe. Yeah, which they're definitely taking across Europe to destabilize Europe. We're recording this on Thursday morning. J.D. Vance will be speaking tonight, although Trump will be then speaking after J.D. Vance. What did you think of the first days? Let's discuss what is actually going on with this bit. I mean, the logic here is you have to really go a long way to find it. Well, isn't the logic a tension for Donald Trump? There is that logic. Yes, exactly. But that's the logic that is at the expense of his party. So you have in midterm elections, you're. the party that holds the White House loses seats. It's just one of those things that happen. They can be greater or lesser losses. But the issue is that a president is surrounded by national controversies. And what you want to do is let your party on a state and local level focus on state and local issues. So you, the president, you want to just take a step back. Everybody knows this. It's easy. Take a step back between Labor Day and November. Let your people out there do their thing. Don't overshadow them. Don't make them have to defend you, especially if your approval ratings are. Are in a dip, not to mention Donald Trump's, which are in a tank. Right. Lowest of the low. So why would he possibly be doing this? Why would he possibly be calling attention to Donald Trump in an election which will depend certainly on swing voters, where a group in which he is massively unpopular, massively unpopular because of the war, which he has gone to Dallas to defend. Massively unpopular because of tariffs, which he has gone to Dallas to defend. Yeah. Well, hello. And ICE. And ICE. Immigration. All of it. Policy after policy after policy. What could be then the motivation for this? Well, you're absolutely right. It is about attention. A, because he can't resist the idea of it. B, because the idea of it is that he can't resist it. And C, because he can't resist it. And D, because he can't resist it. And B, because he can't resist it. And D, because the idea of someone else getting attention is anathema to him. But C, I think that there's a longer term strategy for Donald Trump, which is that he does not want the Republican Party to imagine life without him. This is, he is now, and remember, we're going into this other phase, the midterms in a, in the, in the, in a president's second term, after the midterms, the president begins a long goodbye. Right. It's the lame duck. It's the official lame duck period. The, his, his possible successors, he receives his possible successors come to the forefront. Okay. That's not going to happen here. He's not going to do this. And you can see this convention as an announcement of that. I am not going away. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to play this in a, in a totally the opposite of, of that. This is the cult of personality is going to go into hyperdrive now. And, and it is going to be more, you're not, I'm not going to allow the party, the country, the world to get me to, to, to get me, Donald Trump out of its head. Right. To recede. Right. So we're in Donald, Trump's head, but Donald Trump understands that what he, his talent is getting inside other people's head and staying there. So is, is, I think that's a brilliant analysis. I agree with all of it. Do you think also that it will, I mean, how is he going to react when at 9 11 on Friday, an event, because he's a New Yorker, he knows how important it was 25th anniversary. He's not going to be there. The other presidents are going to be there. So George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, the Clintons will all be there and he won't be there. Well, I think they have automatically upstaged his RNC Palooza at this point. I think that he's, he's hoping that his RNC, uh, Trump Palooza, um, will, will upstage or compete with them. And compete with 9 11. I mean, I think he feels competitive with 9 11. I do too. That's what this whole, I was there. Yeah. Um, you know, 25th anniversary. I mean, I'm sure he's been stewing about that. You know, I really didn't do, I really should have gone down. there. I really should have gotten some pictures of me. Yes, exactly. Where are the pictures? You know that if he'd been there, there would have been pictures. Instead, there are just hilarious fake videos of firemen carrying him out. And his whole narrative about him, kind of a big guy, said, fellas, hey, put me down. But this idea that they're treating him as a heroic figure, when literally people were jumping from the buildings. It's unspeakable. It's unconscionable. But I mean, I think that he sees this and he is triangulating this. It is not just happenstance. I mean, first thing, this whole idea, remember, of a mini convention. I mean, he demanded this, ordered this into place. I mean, the Republicans are going like, oh. And you have all many, many significant figures in the Republican Party who aren't showing up for this. Well, you've got Susan. You've got Susan Collins, who's not going. You've got John Sununu in New Hampshire, who's not going. Obviously, Susan Collins in a tight race in Maine against Troy Jackson after our friend Graham Plattner dropped out. Your friend. My friend. How should the Democrats react to this? And can we have a moment, please, on John Fetterman? What was that? We can. The Democrats, I mean, the Democrats probably shouldn't react. I mean, you know, when your enemy is destroying himself. Stay out of the way. Yeah. As for, oh, God, the Fetterman thing. You know, sometimes, you know, people are, people really go out of their way to find a little love. And Fetterman is clearly not getting love from other Democrats. So I'm sure he thinks, I'll try. I'll try. I'll try. I'll try. I'll try. I'll try. Every day, your personal information is exposed somewhere online. Your email address, financial details, even your health information. It's not about being careful anymore. It's about the hundreds of data brokers who collect and sell your data without your consent. They can't harm you if they can't find you. That's where Incogni comes in. Incogni automatically sends removal requests. And follows up across more than 420 harmful sites, helping get your personal information removed from places you may not even know exist. Incogni can find out where your information appears online, and recurring removals helps keep it from coming back. You can also track your progress, get monthly risk assessments, and reach 24-7 live chat support. Live phone support is available for unlimited users. Your information can't be used against you if it's harder to find. So to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan, go to incogni.com slash beast, or click the link in the episode description. That's incogni.com slash beast. For people who haven't seen this, Fetterman, John Fetterman, senator from Pennsylvania, who had a terrible stroke and then had depression. Like increasingly, politicians seem to have and disappeared for a period, is back with what seemed like, I mean, it was only a minute. A big room of Republicans in Dallas. Yes, I'm Senator John Fetterman, Pennsylvania. Yes, I'm a Democrat. Why am I here talking to you today? Because, well, I'm a common sense Democrat. But it looked like it had been cut, according to one of our producers, six or seven times. So it wasn't clear to me that he could produce a fluid introduction. No, I'm sure that that's true. And I just, just one thing, you know, when Fetterman had this stroke, the Democrats came to his support. I mean, you know, they, they thought, oh, this is a guy, I mean, there was some hope for that he would be a, you know, a new kind of, kind of working class voice or, or, or, or. He'd never really had a job, had he? And he'd been to Harvard and his parents were absolutely. Whatever the thing is, but it, that his party came to his support at that point. When, and this ought to be just a cautionary tale. You know, sometimes you got to cut it off. I mean, he had a stroke, then depression. This is, this is a guy who shouldn't have been a United States Senator. Well, and he doesn't enjoy being a United States Senator. I mean, and we should have, and the Democratic Party said, okay, this is not weird, but this is okay. This is not going to work out. Right. And also we know that he doesn't enjoy being a Senator because his staff last year, last week, he says disgruntled former staffers released a series of his texts in which he really attributed to almost anybody asking his office for help, the worst possible motives. You know, he said, oh, people just want a free trip to Washington. I mean, he obviously doesn't enjoy the job. Obviously he is, this is a person with, with, with a kind of range of issues, whatever those issues are, stroke related or not, should not be imposed upon the American people and on his constituents. Right. And just for those who didn't see it, I'm just going to finish what I was saying, which was that he gave an introduction to his fellow Senator David McCormick in Pennsylvania, who is a Republican. And he said, you know, we're going to work with Donald Trump to get the steel mills open again, to get manufacturing back to Pennsylvania. I mean, it's in fantasy land. Fantasy land. So the other thing, Sarah Yule Weiss, and I hope we can flash up her pictures here from our Washington Bureau went down there. The place was half empty. Donald Trump was telling everybody it was completely full. There were crowds outside, pattering the doors down to get in. But this was like his first inauguration crowd. It's not true. Not only were people, you know, political candidates staying away, apart from the most MAGA of MAGA, the suckiest of, of the suckers, but, but the public weren't going either, the supporters. No, but I think it's important to, to, to emphasize that's not the real, there is an audience here. And the audience is a hardcore MAGA audience. Right. And the audience is TV, the TV audience. Yeah, but I'm not even sure the TV, or first, I don't think the TV audience is going to be that great. And in fact, the TV audience, I think will probably work against that. You get a lot of independent voters. You get a lot of people who are saying, what the hell? But the, the, the, the real point is to go to have this kind of Trump all the time, Trump celebration for the core of the Trump support. That's the support that, that he depends on. He lives off of. He is, that will propel him beyond the presidency to still the leadership of the Republican Party, because the Republican Party is, this is such a key group in, in the party's fortunes. They can't, they can't ignore these people. They can't overrule these people. Right. So he's getting his lifeblood, his energy, his electricity from the crowd in the room, even though it's a diminished crowd. Do we think that Scott Besson, his treasury secretary, who was up there talking about his policies and how we had to double down and the best was yet to come. Do we think that he knew that Donald Trump was going to suddenly announce that for every, if the Republicans win the midterms, every adult in America is going to get a check for $5,000? You know, I, I've seen the people around Trump respond to what Trump says, and it's very possible that that came to Trump in the moment. In the moment, right. Well, that's what it looked like when he said it. And, and, and the, and they, they have this kind of, the reaction is, is a kind of like, they're bracing for impact once he gets up there. But they're also used to it and they also discount it. Yes. Okay. This is absurd and ridiculous. And it'll never happen. And, and, but it will never happen. And then it will go away too. Right. So that in two weeks from now, it'll be what? So do you think he was saying it? Cause he knows that they're not going to win. So he's very safe. I mean, he could have offered $10,000. I don't think it makes any difference to him whether they win or not. Nobody's getting $5,000. I will, I will assure you of that. Okay. Well, you know, who did get $45,000? Natalie Harp, Margo Martin, Chamberlain Harris. What a name, shout out to the name Chamberlain Harris. If I'd had a daughter, I would like to have called her Chamberlain. Not the Harris bit, but the Chamberlain bit. And Walter. Wasn't he a fan? He was a famous prime minister who sold the world. Oh, yes. Good point. Actually, very good point. Yes. Neil Chamberlain. I have in my hand a piece of paper. Yes. All right. Well, all right. Forget about that. All right. Moving, moving swiftly on. I'd forgotten about that. Although there's always Will Chamberlain that you're coming back to because you're always referring to Will Chamberlain. The 20,000 women that he has had sex with and Donald Trump is competing with. Yeah. Though it's a bit harder for him now. We think because we're told he's post-sex but who knows. They got $45,000 in cash from Donald Trump last year, it emerged. Can we just focus on that $45,000? Natalie Harp earns $150,000. So Natalie Harp gets $45,000 in cash, in cash as a bonus. Well, when you say in cash, he's counting out $100 bills? I don't know. But I mean, it's, you know, the report in the Times was in cash. And sort of like petty cash, almost like, you know, did he get it from that box that every office seems to have with a kind of weird slit in the top that I guess you put money in the petty cash box? You know what I'm talking about. There'll be lots of people listening who remember cash. I mean, does anybody have cash anymore? Yeah, I don't even know what this means, $45,000 in cash. She got $45,000. She got $45,000. However it was conveyed. But why did she get it? Why did she and Margot Martin and Chamberlain Harris, not related to Neville Chamberlain, get this extra money? And then Walter, how do we pronounce his name? Nauta, who, the guy with the scissors. He got $25,000. They say, I can hear it, Nata. Nata. Walter Nata. It's always Walt. Walt Nata. It's Walt. Walt. Yeah. Walt Nata got. $25,000. Okay, you are asking this question in a way that might suggest that it's a rhetorical question. But I think I actually. No, not actually. Why are they getting such big bonuses? I think I have a. Well, you would normally ask it as a rhetorical question because nobody knows. It's the classic rhetorical question. There isn't an answer, except that I think I have an answer. Go on. I know that in the past, in other situations, Trump has come up with. With amounts of money at certain moments when he felt that he was not covered enough. Well, when there weren't NDAs or when he was not covered enough by the NDAs in place. So essentially, he is buying a further NDA, which is. This is a common place in business. You sign an NDA because you've been given something. As a matter of fact, it's hard to enforce. You can't enforce an NDA when you have not been given something. It's a transaction. So you think that he's asked them to sign another NDA for which they get $45,000? Yes. I mean, that is my theory of the case because it has happened before. And he's gone to them and said, okay, you got to sign up another NDA because for whatever rationale, the obvious rationale, because these people know. They're privy to so much inside of Donald Trump's very small bubble. So he's gone and said, okay, we know the lawyers say we got to do this, but in what we're going to do, we're going to give you an additional $45,000, which will be accounted for as a bonus or in whatever way it needs to be, but that's what we're going to get for this. Wow. And do they not sign an NDA anyway to work there? Yeah. Usually, from what I know, yes, there are always a lot of NDAs floating around, but there's always an issue about how they are enforceable. And then there's always an effort to make these NDAs more enforceable. I mean, it's a very problematic. How do you enforce an NDA when you're. In a political situation, when you're on the. You're essentially on the payroll of the United States government, the people's payroll, you might say. So that's a kind of constant discussion and a constant analysis and reanalysis. And do we know if this $45,000 is government money? Is this our taxpayer money or is this Trump money? Good question. I don't know. And there were probably. If this were a matter of getting an NDA of a transaction that got you an NDA, that would probably be relevant where the money comes from, but I don't know. And we should say that this is my theory on this, theory of the case based on what he has done in the past. Okay. So we don't know it to be true, but it's a robust theory based on previous behaviors. Robust. I like that idea. Robust. Robust theory. Okay. So we're still, Michael, as we mentioned earlier on, at war with Iran, and it's not going away. And his people, Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, J.D. Vance, and Pete Hegseth, think that we're not going to get out of it anytime soon. Well, also, the Iranians clearly have no intention of letting us get out of it anytime soon. And the Iranians. The Iranians have basically gone back to war. Right. Well, and we saw this week, they bombed eight F-15 aircraft that were sitting on an American base in Jordan. So half a billion dollars worth of equipment just vaporized. I thought we were supposed to have obliterated their military capabilities. That's from the same script as Donald Trump going down to. Going down to 9-11 and going down to ground zero and being a hero and the fireman. Why does he think. I mean, what a story as well that the fireman somehow picked him up and took him out of there. I mean, as if they didn't have other things to do. Again, putting himself at the center of the drama. I know. I've been trying to imagine how this occurs. I mean, the whole tableau of this. Right. I go down there. Oh, Mr. Trump, we better get you out of here. Yeah. Saying, we're going to pick you up and carry you out. And take you to safety because you're risking yourself. Meanwhile, literally people are jumping out of the building. Well, also, people are coming down. I mean, yes. Why would the fireman spend time on. And also, he'd have his own crew with him. He said he'd taken his crew. On fat and happy Donald Trump. Right. And he said he'd taken. He'd taken his own crew. So surely the crew would say, Mr. Trump, Mr. Trump, we can't let you go in there. Not firemen who've got real people to attend to, smothered in ash, choking, having seen unspeakable horrors. And so let's assume that he's made this up. This is the story that he would have made up, that I'm being carried out by firemen? So what does that tell you? It's his fantasy to be carried out by two firemen. Mine too, but not at 9-11. Yeah, I'm. It's just horrible. Horrifying. It's horrifying. And it's so. I mean, I know what happens. And I've seen it literally just comes to him in the moment. Yeah. So he just suddenly sees. He suddenly has this vision of that. And I think like the $5,000 payment, suddenly like, hey, I know $5,000 for every adult if the Republicans win. And actually, even the people standing behind him didn't look like they believed it. There were three or four women and they were holding up Trump signs. And one of them just suddenly moved. She was just sort of looking skeptical at the camera. So it's all. No, I remember the Venezuela announcement. And he got up there and then said, who's going to be running? We're going to be running. And all of those people behind him. That's right. And Marco Rubio looked horrified. Yeah, he basically pointed at Marco, didn't he? Yeah. And it's a thing. And I mean, obviously, it's a point that we have made again and again and again, that there is no plan here. It just comes out of his head at the very, at the very moment it comes into his head, it comes out of his head. Which is why we call this podcast, for new people who've joined us, because there are lots of new people that join us every week, we call it Inside Trump's Head, because that's the place that strangely seems to be the most important place in the world. No, it is. We assume that American politics is created, policies are created, the world is guided by a Washington, D.C., which has all kinds of A, smart people, smart people, dumb people, but it is a massive collaborative exercise in democracy. And. No, it ain't. No, it ain't. No, it ain't. It's just. And again, because he doesn't listen to anybody, he takes no advice, can get no advice because he literally doesn't hear anything from anyone, doesn't read anything. It is just this singular person who is firing in random directions. So he's been firing at the mail-in voting. And I find the mail-in voting story, it's quite complicated and it's quite detailed. But what he has managed to do, and we should remind people, 30% of Americans actually vote, use mail-in voting. I mean, Colorado is almost exclusively a mail-in-your-vote state. He's managed to so confusion about whether or not it's still legal and and let's let's from the baseline here is that it is legal and the courts have have pretty consistently supported this idea and yet we are at this moment in which in which if i think i think everybody's feelings is oh my god there is it legal is it happening we don't know and again it is it is before the supreme court i mean the supreme court has basically tried to indicate in every way possible that this is that that this is legal we don't want to get involved in this this is a state issue um and then trump keeps bringing it back before the court which which creates this situation of of absolute you uncertainty if not the sense of chaos right well it's the chaos that i think uh is most concerning and again just sowing doubt in the election results and we know that actually america's election process which is devolved and run by the states it's not federalized uh is largely a pretty reliable process i mean we've heard from many people actually who listen to the podcast watch the podcast who have either volunteered as election workers or been professional you know full-time election workers that the system is safe and and let's let's remember there has never this has not even been an issue this is donald trump's issue not an issue outside of donald trump an issue only when only when donald trump lost an election so so i mean where did and one of the ways and okay i mean this the the scenario the state of play is he is looking at a midterm elections in which in which are significantly stacked against him they're stacked against him because the party holding the white house is always at a disadvantage plus he is one of the most unpopular presidents in um in the modern history of the presidency so not good um plus there's a whole list of policies that that have been distinctly unsuccessful under donald trump distinctly unsuccessful not good um so what is he going to do well you know he is going to try in instead of instead of moderating those those policies or doing all of the things that a normal president would do okay this is this is not going so well so we ought to try for a reset um donald trump doesn't reset he doubles down so what is he going to do come for this election well he's going to try to reset the actual terms on which people vote or are able to vote in the actual terms about who votes so um so we're going into this into this to this into the midterms and that then becomes a significant variable can he disrupt the election enough to gain a um to gain an advantage a significant advantage that's the question and does he then challenge you know there are i think 35 seats in congress that are probably in play there are probably six senate seats that are actually in play does he then just challenge the results of every single well we don't hold up the whole process yeah i mean we don't know we're not even there yet so that'll be that'll give us many episodes after the election um but um and and clearly he's not there yet what they're doing now the phase that they are in now is trying to trying to disrupt the the the the procedures for voting in a way that will redound to their advantage right so and then what will happen if they lose well yes it's a whole other chapter okay so one more thing i wanted to discuss with you jimmy kimmel jimmy kimmel has been a thorn in donald trump's side more than the other late night comedians well i guess stephen colbert was dropped by cbs uh jimmy kimmel is now about to interview james talarico but he's not going to do it on his show fast no totally totally fascinating he's not going to do it on his show because his network uh donald trump has now threatened there is and this is somewhat complicated there is fcc rules called the fairness doctrine now the fairness doctrine has not been enforced not been um and i don't even actually know the official legal status of it is it still is it still a regulatory principle as it once was so when there were three networks the the the rules and the networks these are over the air networks the air is owned by the united by the people of the united states therefore it is regulated on that basis and the regulation was that if you had on one a politician from one party you had to have a politician on from the other party it was like an equal time thing absolutely that's that's exactly what it was and this went by became obsolete with the rise of well cable networks not to mention social media not to mention um so many other aspects of of um of modern communications now because cable is not over the air it cannot be right it is not regulated by the fcc so they could not then say to cable stations you you you have they could not enforce a fairness doctrine so that seemed at best anomalous that they would not enforce it on cable but have to enforce it on on over the air therefore it has it has is basically been the fairness document uh doctrine has been more abundant except recently the trump administration has started to threaten the networks with enforcement of the of the um um of the equal time fairness rules so um and in in the case of jimmy kimmel and and and donald trump obviously has gone out of his way to frustrate jimmy kimmel in um uh in every sense in every way that he could well and i think jimmy kimmel has gone out of his way to frustrate donald trump in every way that he can but so in in order to for kimmel to um interview um talarico he has had to he can't do it on the air can't do it on abc which is his network he can't do it on abc and abc is now fighting several battles with the trump administration um so what they're doing is they're doing this they're doing this interview but they're broadcasting it only on youtube where we are broadcasting and so it's an interesting first is an interesting play and and i would i don't i don't know the numbers off the top of my head but i imagine that kimmel's numbers on youtube right greater yeah than they are on on abc but it is this other thing so it goes to this other other other issue of of the the obsolescence of also of network television that um uh that you know the world is happening now on there i say youtube yeah well we interviewed james talarico on on youtube um but it's significant that jimmy kimmel has figured out a workaround well it's i you know you know when when i published my last book all or nothing and that came out in um in uh february 2024 so just when when trump had come back into power was threatening all kinds of things had sued i think so it's 2025 february 2025 so he came out a month after the inauguration right so it covers the the the 2024 election and um and trump came into office and in and you know announcing that he was he had the media in his sights he was suing i think he had already sued abc they had already made us come to a settlement with him or were just about that that uh that point george stefanopoulos where it was an interview he'd done with nancy mace um and um so and every network was was looking squarely at this and was was fearful and i remember when my book came out and that would have been the first book in this sec in this um uh second second term and i i immediately all the bookings that i had had before the election when people still thought he would he would right to publicize the book um were were canceled every one of them down the line canceled and then that's a that's the moment in which i thought i you know what am i gonna do and and went to social media started an instagram account which i have not had not had before um and And then we started to do podcasting, which has been actually much more successful than the traditional television outlets. I mean, what do I have, a million followers on Instagram? We do a business now that is larger than any, well, any cable primetime show other than Fox. So this is, Kimmel is part of this movement here that is about Donald Trump, but it's also about the increasing obsolescence of the old networks. Right. And it's about people wanting a greater freedom and independence, independence to be able to say what you want, which is a good moment for me to say, please subscribe to the Daily Beast. If you haven't yet, we've got seven hundred and I think fifty thousand subscribers at this point. We've been doing this, what, just over a year. Yeah, no, I mean, these are these are now these are now we are competitive. No, we're totally competitive. Or more. And that's a that's a that's a seismic change. Well, and the thing I like is that when you go on a Daily Beast or Inside Trump's Head podcast live, you can see the community. You can see, you know, all the names I now I now know, Cindy Brown, John Hart, all these. All these people that come on and talk about the content of what we're talking about. They talk to each other. There is a really big community and you can sometimes go on those eight thousand people, you know, pouring in what they think about what we're saying, ideas for suggestions. And that's not possible with television either. You know, you're never talking to other people who are viewing, especially now. There's no water cooler moment anymore because people watch on their own time. And actually, the premieres of our show, you can see people beginning. To wait for them. They enjoy the fact that it's a collective experience. No, Jimmy Kimmel, who is is one of my frequent commenters on Instagram, is is not only his move that it's really interesting, is not only not only against Donald Trump, but it's against ABC, too. I mean, I think I think I think Kimmel knows that the future is. Somewhere else. Well, and aren't we waiting for Stephen Colbert to open up on YouTube? And John Oliver certainly has, I'm sure, more followers on YouTube than he has on HBO. You know, the the YouTube ization of the world is. Kind of extraordinary. We applaud you, YouTube. Now I'm sounding like Tony DeCoppo at the end of his, I think, second broadcast for CBS News when he said, we salute you, Florida man, Marco Rubio. We salute. We salute you, YouTube, for allowing us to have independent conversation. No, well, CBS and then and then Paramount and. Yeah. Whatever is going to CNN. And, you know, this is this is this this becomes some some other reality. Like people still are doing this. People are still are still think that they can make businesses out of this. You know, look at all the new media. Well, no, you actually have they are doing this because the Ellison family. Doesn't have to make a business out of this. Right. This is a vanity project of of of of a kind of. What do you think that Larry Ellison thinks about his son doing this? Because this is now I mean, in theory, if this had been one of those deals that got done quickly, if it had gone through smoothly, he might have been fine with it. But I suspect if you're the father looking at the son struggling with this messy deal now, you're not best pleased. I mean. As a as a tech mogul, for the most part, he's actually had a low profile. And now the Ellison family is sort of taking it on the chin for essentially ending CBS 60 Minutes. The new episodes are about to drop. There'll be all sorts of attention to that. Do you think Larry Ellison thinks this is a good move that David Ellison did? You know. People really. Love to be part of the media. I mean, and I think Larry Ellison had many opportunities to be part of the second, third richest man in the world. I'm not sure he had so many opportunities. You know, this is now now he doesn't have to be his son is the media. And these guys like control, control, control, control, dominance, dominance. And remember, they think they can do everything. I think they can do everything. And then on top of that, they're winning favor with Donald Trump. So, so far, I think that this is kind of win win for them. It will become lose lose when they really start to lose a lot of money when when they really realize that they've bought a business that is that is yesterday's business and and the world has moved on. And and when Larry Ellison starts to tell his son what to do and his son becomes annoyed with the father and yeah, you can you can write this one. Well, perhaps this will be your next book, Father and Son, the Ellisons. All right. We have a limerick. Where would we be if we didn't have a limerick? And this is from a new limericker, Pumpkin 06330. And it's about RFK Jr. Pumpki Oh, no. Oh, pumpki. Oh, no. I think you might be right. Pumpki. Oh, no. Right. Cheeseburger. Three eggs is the breakfast of kings. Much better than snorting off toilet seat rings. The Kennedy name once historically classy. Now, based on this menu is prone to be gassy. OK, this is my favorite. That's pretty good, isn't it? That's pretty, pretty good. I love it. RFK Jr. Well done. Pumpki. Oh, no. Well done, Pumpki. Oh, no. We will be back on Saturday for more Trump-a-loser. Trump is a loser. Trump is a loser. Trump is a loser. We'll be obviously dissecting what J.D. Vance says and how Trump comes in over the top of him. Yeah, no, we got it. And is this good or bad for J.D. Vance being being pushed out in front of this? This crazy crowd. Yeah. This empty hall. Will there be fewer seats for J.D. Vance than there were for Donald? Well, we'll be counting. Sarah Ewell-Wise will be down there counting every single seat. We'll be back on Saturday morning. Well, Saturday afternoon, actually. We'll record it Saturday morning, but we'll actually drop the episode Saturday afternoon, full of the latest gossip. And we should probably ring the White House and find out what they think about your NDA theory. Yeah, you know, you do this. You call the White House all the time. They say the same things. P-brain, whatever. So this is perfect. It's very performative on your part. OK, then we're not going to call them. We won't call them. Thank you, Ryan, John, Heather, Rachel, Neil. Pretty good. So the good news is we have so many B-Beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.