Why Tracee Ellis Ross Stopped Waiting to Be Chosen

Today, I'm sitting down with the one and only Tracy Ellis Ross. You know her from girlfriends, blackish, pattern beauty, her iconic fashion. And now, her Broadway debut and every brilliant thing. But beyond all of those accomplishments, Tracy has become part of a much bigger conversation about what it means to build a full life on your own terms. Okay, we are talking legacy, love, friendship, family, beauty, joy, solo travel, and the freedom that comes from trusting yourself, and set up someone else's timeline. She is one of my favorite humans on the planet, no lie. Let's get into it, because baby, this is Kiki Palmer, and this is Tracy Ellis Ross. So grab you a drink and a snack you enjoy, and get into the vibe that only you know it's crazy. This is Kiki, baby, this is Kiki Palmer, yeah. Tracy, you look fat, oh my god, you look fat, the fashion is always giving it a good ease to give. Come on, pull back. Okay, hold on a second, highlight. Okay, yeah. I brought these legs out for you. I'm so glad you brought them. Somebody's got to have them, Kiki, get back in New York and your city, wait a minute, what's in your hands? It's a gift for you. I brought you, I brought you a little something. You were just too classy. I brought you a little something, but I'm a big girl, yes, but let me just move my ponytail. Hiki, experience freedom, enjoy. I just truly adore you. You know that it gets to a point where it's like I hope I don't fan out too much with her, so she could still be my friend. Oh my god, yeah, no, you're a good girl, you're my favorite. I absolutely adore and love this packaging, oh my gosh, these cards. So this is a QR code that I get to visit so late. I love the technology that's attached to this. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So I made two frames, I made the freedom frame, which is those, and then I also made the truth frame. May you experience freedom. I'm not letting them sit on my nose, I don't mess up your makeup, so you can block the haters. Baby, you can block the haters. Can I just tell you that I'm really happy that I get to be in this product era of Trace Nellie small. Oh my god, you did so happy for every product, first of all, their top of the line. You know, pattern, love in a door, what you've been able to accomplish with that company from the great product it is, but also as a business woman. I talked, we talked about that over dinner, it's not easy, anybody who starts something would know that. And so now that we're getting layers for the love of God, yeah, I mean, you know, it all started actually with the JC Penny close that I did, okay, it gave me the, well, we can talk about that, but it was the, but you just saw that it could be. It was the beginning, and I always wanted to do the hair. I've been trying to do that forever, but when the JC Penny thing actually happened, one of my thoughts was, could I make enough money here to put it towards the dream that I actually want to be doing? Yes. Because it's an investment. It's an investment. It's a journey. It's like, and it's a trial and error. It's like learning something new, but anyway, I jumped in. But yes, little gift for you, you can block the haters. I love my gift. I can't wait to be outside. Just outside. Just like, ooh, if you're looking at me, I'm not looking at you. Yeah. Okay. We'll start when I pretty shall pull up. Okay. Do I? Now, it's so funny because you kind of created your own name. I mean, your dad is Ella. A Silverstein. Okay. Obviously your mom is Ross. Do you want to know the story? Please give me the story. Because it's so, when I explain it, you're like, oh, I see. So I was born Tracy Joy Silverstein. My middle name is Joy. That's what's on my birth certificate. And then Tracy Joy Ross Silverstein became the name that I had all through grade school. I was TJRS. Okay. And I don't know where, what, why, I don't know what that was. I don't know. I don't know. And then we lost Silverstein because my dad, this is so gone, that's so ridiculous. My dad, and my dad is Robert Ellis Silverstein. But he goes by Bob Ellis. Okay. And him and his wife, my stepmom, are Bob and Susan Ellis. So we dropped Silverstein because of Silverstein. I love Silverstein too. I love Silverstein. I have S-I-L-B-R-S-T-I-N. You know what I mean? Okay. My family was probably Silver Smith back in the day when they came to my house out, you know what I mean? However, we all dropped Silverstein. I became Tracy Joy Ross. And then here's the key. When I joined SAG, I was, you know, nobody uses their middle name. You know, Tracy Ross. And when I joined SAG, there was another Tracy Ross. Remember, Tracy, you know, you're T.M. Tracy Ross from StarSearch. Oh, wow. Okay. I remember StarSearch, though. Okay. That was them. Oh. It let me through. Well, you know what, Kiki? You did fine. I think we're okay. We can let go of that. Literally. I'm still holding on. No, no, no. We can drop that grudge. Okay. You did it. All right. Okay. Anyway. So there was another Tracy Ross. And so I could put Joy in my name and be Tracy Joy Ross, but I really wanted when my name hit the screen for everyone to know that I was not just my mom's daughter, but also my dad's daughter. And so I am Tracy Ellis Ross, so that every time I'm up there, Bob Ellis knows that's my kid. And Diana Ross knows that's also my kid. And it's like she's proud of us both. There you go. Which is just so kick ass. My son, I always thought about adding like Palmer to it, but if you wanted to, I would, I mean, if he did like a situation like what you did, I would be just so thrilled. It just, I don't know. It just felt, yeah, felt right. It's the sweetest. And I also, when I was choosing names, which is a really fun thing to do, I was like Tracy Ellis Ross. Sounds important. It really does. It sounds like I, like Gravitoss. It's like Tracy Ellis Ross. It's Tracy Ellis Ross. It's a double E, a double L, a double L. You crazy. I love that. Oh my gosh. I love that. Okay. Boom. Name down. Now your zodiac sign. I think we're all trying to guess what you're so much fun. It's like you have to have some sadger there. There has to be. Well, so I watch your show. I listen to your plot. I part with you. So I, you know, I knew this question was coming. So I asked our dear friend Claude. Oh my gosh. Claude broke it down for you. Come on in. You didn't know. But Claude told me and I've saved it into my notes. I'm so excited. And by the way, the subject of the note is Kiki. I'm so excited. I love that people know this about me. Yes. Okay. So Scorpio's son. Okay. Fabulous. Fabulous. And I'm an October Scorpio. So it's the real deal. I say that because I think those November Scorpios are different. Are my breasts showing? No. Okay. So I was disappointed. I do have cute boobs. Okay. I'm crazy. The core self. Do you want? No, we don't need to read. You can tell me just the top. Okay. You'll tell about me. Exactly. Okay. Scorpio's son. Leo Moon. Leo Moon. What does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean? Very sweet vulnerable loving. I don't know how they got blessed with the cute factor. And then also stubborn. I don't know about that with you. Do you feel that you're stubborn? I'm not stubborn. Yeah. I am not stubborn. You feel Scorpio heavy. I am Scorpio heavy. I don't know a lot about signs. I dated one Scorpio man, and I was just like, I don't want to date myself. Yeah. I'm not looking for that. I'm enough. I'm a lot. I do not want to date no Virgo man. That is the last thing I would do. I really like the Pisces, but I felt like I was going to run him over. Oh, they're so sweet. It was so sweet. Cancer's room, room, room, room. Love them down, though. Yeah. Okay. Scorpio, what am I like? I felt like when I read this, can I read this? Yes, please. Because it's probably very independent. It says, the core self, this is your fundamental drive. Intense, private, all or nothing. Scorpio is associated with depth over surface. You're drawn to what's hidden. That is correct. I'm drawn to what's hidden. You don't do small talk easily correct. And when you commit to something or someone, it's total. Whoa. There's a strong will here and a knack of seeing through people. The shadow side is a tendency towards control. Yeah. I've done a lot of work on that, though. Yes, it's correct. I've done, I've done my work, my homework. Toward control, brooding or holding grudges. No, I'm not a, I've had to do some work. I'm currently still doing some work on that grudge holding. I've, I've always had a little bit of that. When I was younger, I used to always just, yeah, just you know, hold on. Like I just brought up star starts like stars. Why would I do that? I mean, that's interesting. I was trying to think if I've done work on that or this, I just naturally didn't have that. But I understand that. Yeah. I really understand it. I've always felt like, uh, Scorpios and Virgals were like, but Scorpio's were not so passive where sometimes Virgos can we can try to just so hard to hold it in and just try to be so I know big deal. I'm exposed you guys expose it and I think it's better that you like get it out You say it. You're like, you know, that is that is very, but it's also the way my family is like we it's like you say it And then it's done like I am I don't know with my siblings I can go from zero to a hundred and fifty in a fight in two seconds and then five minutes later What are we doing for dinner? Yeah, who because you got it because you said you didn't hold it in and play around yes a good quality I love that about every Scorpio. I know I think the reason I don't hold grudges though is because I don't have a great memory I'm one of those people who will be like in the middle of hugging someone and be like I think I'm mad at them Why I don't remember oh well. Hi like I just it's not it doesn't when you know you two happy and good in life Like what do I have time to hold on to this fool? I feel like it's a memory issue Personally, I mean, I like that take on it. Kiki hilarious. I don't know your posture is so good Oh my gosh. Thank you. I feel like I have to win this dress because it's so you know what I mean? Okay, I got you I don't want to be like boop boop. Yeah, I know well either one of us could be boop boop boop It'll be great episode Do you know what I mean? It'll just be boop and a boop our parents have the same birthday My only reason I know is because obviously your mother's dying to Ross and my dad It's always been obsessed when he's like, you know, I got a same bird days that rolls. You know me and dad Your dad and your mom my dad March 26th, right? Yes. Yeah, my dad always you let me know I knew it on my life Oh, very random, but I was new it. What is your love language? Do you know I don't know? Yeah, you never did one of the little tasks. I did and you didn't agree. No, no, I don't Which by the way is why I had to do this do you know how many times I've had more her school? Don't know what it is and I just I Remember things that feel important to me. Yeah, so I have an impeccable memory With certain things and with things that sort of don't I don't know don't hold a place How does it work with like your lines and stuff do very easy right because I remember stories Yeah, I remember stories Short-term memory is good like I'm black as you could have given me a script that day and we were fine But like this for every brilliant thing it's different. It's long-term memory. Yeah, so for me It's about inhabiting story. Yes, and understanding because you know You could tell me a story about your life and spend two hours telling me with detail Yeah, and it wouldn't be like oh, I can't remember yeah for me It's the same thing and so what I try and do is discover who this person's who this person is that part of me that is that person and Learn the story I really relate to that because once you know that there's only so many places it can go for that archetype in this world in this situation and then you you know who they are and no matter what the sort of scenario is you understand it and you've placed Yourself in their experience and have you guys already started you know you haven't started even though rehearsals for a brilliant thing No, I'm in the studying process. Well, did you know this is the project you wanted to do? I know we'll get into it, but I just since we brought it up now. What what made you say? Okay, you know what I'll do that um for me always it's about the material. Yeah, and so there's since I was early and young as an actor Whenever I'm reading something and I start without realizing it reading it out loud Yes, oh my gosh, I know what you mean with that because like I really want to be this girl I it's fascinating now I want to be this girl And then I want to keep reading because I want to be like who you on that right when I start feeling like you want to start trying out the voice You want to try her out for size. So that's the first thing that we did yeah, um, which is like I love being an artist in that way. I know. Oh my god. Get me in there. So that's so fun right the second thing is and you and I both have the same thing where There's a sense of abandon and freedom that I was trying to explain that to somebody what I do allows me to feel Absolute freedom regularly. Yeah, it's extraordinary. It is extraordinary. It's an extraordinary thing. Yeah, it's really magical Be trapped in one idea. It's it's amazing and it gives you that opportunity to always think of How other people would think of that and and then because no one thinks they're a bad person no one thinks they're stupid No one thinks they're crazy. So it's actually people who Aren't are crazy. Don't think they're crazy. Yeah, you're right. They know exactly why they got there exactly You know, and so that's really fun. So the first is the voice then At this point in my career the fun part is sort of going past that Who is this person in this world? What is this world? What is the actual story and then who are the players? Who are the people involved? Yeah, what about this feels like it moves What I want in life forward and this show is all just you. Yes, so this is very Girl, that's like, you know kick it small dream. Yes, kick it put me on the same score field. Kick it Kiki, everyone's like, oh my god, are you scared? It's just you. I'm like, oh, it's just me. You're like it's just me. I don't have to share with anybody No, what I feel about it is two things. I'm screaming. That is so scorpion. No, I'm her one um My favorite thing in life is connecting with people. Yeah Even when I do speaking engagements. I love it when the house lights are up. Yeah, there's nothing better to me Than telling a story What to someone yeah, and so the way this piece is set up from the moment I read it. I was just like Oh my god, it's just I'm telling a story. It's a story that exists. It is not my story The story is strung together by a list of everything brilliant worth living for from the smallest to the biggest to Kazoo's to you know what I mean just like the most delicious thing So that perspective for me felt beautiful But it is told with the house lights up in participation with the audience you are in it together so um There's a little bit of improv because a few people from the audience play certain roles in the story that I'm telling um and I'm the Host for lack of a better word in the room and I get to Be in this exchange and the material is so buoyant. I was so sweet. My mom said. What do you mean by that? And I said I thought the same thing That's your mom asked I was like buoyant. I'll be writing down my mom was like what is this language you're speaking? What does this mean my dear daughter? And I said oh well I said imagine this mom Imagine not a balloon that feels airy But a ball on the pool That never will sink But yet it can fly and there's a lightness to it. So it is a it is a piece about mental health It is about suicide and depression But it is one of the most life-affirming beautiful pieces of material I've ever read and it's buoyant it is um filled with All of the humanity that makes you want to live and want to live in connection with Community with other people because we are all doing this together despite what You know is being preached and put forward The call of humanity is to do it in community and to do it with each other You are so excellent with these complex emotions and I always bring this up and I have to bring it up again on the podcast because Everybody knows me. Girlfriends is one of my favorite shows of all time. I mean you're a little bit dressed like mine My first season like I'm 25 Joan I'm so tired of you being 25 you were 25 we met like I literally every single episode every single season All the growth of the characters, but there's one particular moment that always takes out for me And it makes me cry every time that I watch it is the episode when you are talking to Ellis I'm about I'm happy for my friend Girl oh, I get chills that scene. I'm happy for I'm happy for my friend. I'm happy for my I'm having for my friend It's so oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. I can go back there in two seconds. It's it's so Excellent. Can I tell you some stuff about that please? That was so beautiful We are at the peak right now. This is it July is the absolute top of summer the most committed most alive most everything month of the entire year The days are long the energy is high and everyone you love is finally available at the same time This is the month summer delivers on everything it promised back in January when you were called and optimistic Okay, okay, so My friends and I found this home on Airbnb in trucks and kcos perfect for a little couples getaway beach front palm trees Private secluded the kind of place where you look around and genuinely cannot see another soul and you think oh It's just us the whole world disappeared and all that was left was our little group on this beach like we had been dropped there by the universe specifically Somebody's situation chip got on the grill and did not disappoint He was clearly prepared because he brought the sandals and everything and moments like that Moments where everyone gathers around food that somebody actually cooked outside with the ocean right there It was the kind of trip you stop trying to document because you're too busy enjoying it We found that stay on Airbnb and it set the bar for every couple's trip I take for the rest of my life. This is what peak summer can feel like when the space is right. Find a home on Airbnb this summer and meet the moment. Peak summer is not waiting for you to get ready. There are two versions of me at any given moment. There's the Virgin that is on the way somewhere locked in, unbothered, do not interrupt me, I have a purpose. And then there's the Virgin that sees the Starbucks and just turns, mid-stride with absolutely no hesitation. The second one is my favorite version, especially in the summer. I'm the one who orders a tropical butterfly refresher, guava and passion fruit flavors, these mango pineapple flavored pearls that pop in your mouth, and a butterfly pea flower infusion on top that just shifts the color of the whole drink right in front of you. And I stand there watching it happen like it's the most important thing that happened all week because it might be. One small choice can lead to old shift. Unlike your best summer memories with the tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks, order now on the app. There were, I think, four, I'm happy for my friends lines. There was only four of them. And I was like, you can't tell me how long it takes to get where I need to go. That's so true. And I didn't know how long it would take for me to go where I needed to go. And I don't know why I can't think of that actor's name, Holy Moly. Yes, he's from British. British. British. Oh my gosh. I know his character on the show name was Ellis and he was an actor. He was, you dated him for a while on the show, the lobster. Yeah, he played the lobster. And then he said, we were fishing for lobster. Joe. He thought she had something going on with him. I never saw it for y'all personally. On the show, I was tired of you and Ellis. The one I wanted you with was the sex addict. That was Don Dre. I loved him and you. What was his name on the show? Oh, I hated it. I didn't get why Joan didn't take her ass to New York. Just why didn't Joan do this fantastic. Anyway, sorry. By the way, I still have that dress, which I can get it up my knee. I was so skinny. I was so skinny. I feel like in my older age that I'm at now that I'm heading back to that skinny place because like I've lost some of my thickness. Oh my gosh. How did it happen? I believe it's just getting old. I don't know. My muscle mass is cutting itself in half. I mean, I'm going with it. Do you know what I mean? I'm going with it. I'm loving it and bracing it. But literally sometimes I'm screaming, sometimes I'm like, where is my thick? And then sometimes I turn around and I go, oh, it's still there. It's in a different place. But it's also not the same thick. I don't know. It's all different. I body change. They change in whatever, whatever. I'm just very grateful that it's still holding me up. Yes. But I still have that dress and I just remember that moment. And I remember that take was that take. And it was such a, that was such a moment. But also that was such a time. You know what? A thing, Kiki, that's so crazy. I spent 173 episodes for eight years talking about not being chosen. Yeah. And when I came out of that show, I didn't realize how much my cells had taken that on, that sense of story. And, you know, a lot of people, I talk very publicly about the idea of being the chooser. And I think, I don't think I did it consciously to talk publicly about it. But it was a way for me unconsciously to reclaim that I am the chooser. Yes. But I am worthy of choosing the right partner. And that I don't have to sit around being a prize to wait to be chosen. That I am actually, which goes back to how you introred me. You know, that I am, I am responsible for my own happiness. But I feel like that's why that character is so meaningful to me. And I think it's a right of passage to go through the process of watching girlfriends and falling in love with Joan and realizing that Joan was her biggest issue is that she always was the chooser. And she pretended that she wasn't. And she just didn't know. She didn't know because when she went, when old boy wanted to marry her, she found a reason not to when she found the opportunity with William, her long friend, she that really was never meant to be her storyline. But we're told so much as women. And I relate so much to Joan. I relate so much to what you talk about because I've always felt that way about myself. I mean, we've talked about it a lot. Yeah. All the time because it's like, I, I don't know why the world decides that what validates me is this. And, but the truth is like, what if I'm genuinely telling you that I do love love, I do love experience, but I'm not attached to a particular outcome. Why don't you believe me? Well, you know, well, I mean, it's a real thing. I mean, you don't want to go to the big archetypes, but it's patriarchy, it's ageism, it's sexism, it's misogynoir. It's all of these things and they have a, they have a name for a reason. Yeah. You know, and I think for me growing up, I never, I didn't know. I thought it was my own personal, um, albatross, my own personal failing, my own personal self hatred. Like I named it all the things for so many years. All the things and all of the things I named it were my fault. You know, I mean, all the things I mean, because I'm not fitting correct. And, you know, you and I have, we've talked about this. Yeah. I mean, you know what I mean? I mean, listen, if you're my girl, if Kiki and I were made, if there's a soup where they're making people, Kiki and I were probably in the same soup. The same. You know, I mean, was same soup. Yeah. Might have came out on different ends and different states and different places, but same soup. Same soup. You know, I mean, full identity. Like I came out like this. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. Like I'm a person who knows who I am. And I feel like I always have and I feel like you always have. Oh, wait. I mean, we've seen you from, I mean, what was the first one? The, the B? Yep. A key on the B. A key on the B? Was that the first one? Yeah, that was the, well, the first one that people really would like, where we would know, yeah, where we were like, who's that? Exactly. Um, and so, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. I always think about the fact that you're the original blive, you know, Rhonda really is. Oh my gosh, Rhonda. My older sister. Shout out to Rhonda, Barry Gordy and Diana Ross. She's the original blive. Yes, it's so true. I'm not sure where you would put me. But you know, my root of me was she to Joe. Oh, yeah, we're in that camp. We're over there. I can't actually. Who all have really, you know, claimed our identity. Oh my gosh. And outside of our parents embrace and they're the way that they've paved, that they paved and the space that they created, not only in the industry, but for us. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's so funny. Yeah. Oh, I'm saying. Yeah. Okay. What's a question you wish you were asked more in interviews? If there is one, I don't know. I don't think they're, I mean, yeah, you get, I mean, you get so many cool questions because everybody knows you're so smart. So it's, I feel like, well, we could feel like we can ask you anything. Yeah. And I feel like I don't feel afraid to be asked anything. Um, because if I don't answer it, I just won't. Like, I don't feel afraid to say, I'm not answering that. I've said that. I remember we went through a phase. I went through a phase like during blackish where I swear to God, people were asking me why I hadn't had children and had I thought about it. And I remember saying to one person on camera, I said, well, you get out of my womb. And she was like, oh, I said, no, but really, like, why are you asking me that question? That's insane. Because what can I say? Yeah, I'm like an old ****. Why am I having that conversation with you? Yeah, like, I don't even ever see what's happening right now. So it was our stop. It's so true. I was like, stop. I am not. Sometimes interviewers take that interview too far. Like, you know, come on now, girl, now you're just trying to get into my life. I literally felt like this. I was like, mama. Yeah. Like, you know, it's not even. Is that vintage? This is your boy. Sergio Hudson. I was just gonna. Yes, it is. Sergio, you know, our love bug. I love love love. We love you, Sergio. I love you, Sergio. Oh my gosh, what is not to love about those robes that you guys did the collaboration on for a pattern? Yeah. It was so sickening. They were based on the robes. My mom used to wear backstage. Oh, what? The fabulosity just consumes us. The fabulosity. It just consumes you know, I live in this milk. I don't know what I just said. Kiki, take it back. Kiki, did you ever work with? Because I feel like you guys also remind me of each other. And I would have loved to see you do movies, some movies like her. Diane Keaton. Did you guys ever? She directed me in my first film. You guys, I mean, you just like it's like Annie Hall. Like, it's like you have that kind of thing as well, where it's just like cookie fun. Oh my gosh. I'm like, I'm so. So Diane Keaton, I would say Carol Burnett. Yes, you'll fall. Diane Keaton. I mean, come on. What the archetype? The video archetype of a lifetime. I mean, of a lifetime. Of a lifetime. And it still holds up because you know what? It was humor from a different place, Kiki. It was not humor about making people feel bad or people falling down or whatever. It was, I mean, come on. It was so true. It was humor from the place of like a real personification. Oh my gosh. Like truly leaning into a character. Yes. And turn up that volume and you can't be too big. You can't be. You can't be too big. I mean, Carol Burnett, but like Diane Keaton for me was one of those women who I saw age so beautifully. Yes. And I saw like just oh my god. And what I saw was you can never, you will always be full of life if you laugh. Yeah. I mean, when she would smile, the entire world lit up. - No, seriously. - Just lit up. And I never wanna stop smiling. I never wanna stop giggling. I want my face to make all of that happen. - Oh my gosh, yes. It's so true, I feel the same way. That's why I hate when we get to so much into this. I'm not saying people can't get theyself right, but it's like when we get so perfected that we don't at least see the expression. We gotta still get the, get outta here. - Be the gag of it all. - If you think of me on blackish, half the time, I didn't say (beep) - Okay, what I did was, what? I mean, that's all I did, I made faces. You say so much with your face. If my face doesn't move, and then now everybody's obsessed, they're like, when I do this, there's wrinkles. I'm like-- - But you need it. - Well, this is my other thing. It's like my neck is getting a little bit loose. - Okay, it's just, it's like a touch. - Need a long scare at me about the neck (beep) I've been moisturizing it like never before. - You have to darling. - It's scary to neck, get your hands, and wear that sunblock. I don't care that you're black. Put that sunblock on. Okay? Because you know what, the ozone out there is gone. So it's gonna get you, okay? It's coming for you. And let me tell you something, we're all going in the same direction. - So my neck is a little bit loose, okay? - Yeah. - I was like, whatever, whatever. And I kept, I was doing this the other day, and I was like, well, I mean, if you make it too tight, I don't know about you, but I want to keep looking this way, and I want to keep looking this way, and I want to look this way, and this way. I don't want it so tight, I can't look this way. I want to know who's coming behind me. I want to know, you got to keep that neck where it goes. - No, because sometimes that (beep) gets too tight. - Too tight. - You know what I'm saying? I'm like, I'm like, oh, come on, what are we doing? - Are you gonna snap? It's gonna snap on you. - It's gonna snap. You don't want that, Keke. - That's so scary. - No, I don't want it. - I don't want it. - I don't want to cross my legs and my mouth open. Or like, it's so tight. It's so tight, like, it's so tight. - Oh, no, no, no. - Now listen, cast me in five years. I might have a different story and I don't want to hear (beep) okay. - Tracy, you look great. - I think you. - Are you? Thank you so much. - I support everybody making all the choices. You want to love yourself, whatever that looks like for you. - Yeah. - But I also, for me personally, I love the life in my face. - Yeah. - I don't want to look like a baby dolphin. - I don't want it. - Okay. - It's too much. - For today, it's too much. - Last question for the pre-show pull-up, even though it's like something big going. - This is all the pre-show pull-up. - Oh my God. - I'm so dead. - I love how more bust we are. - By the way, I have things that I wanted to talk to you about at dinner and forgot and I kept a list. - Oh, (beep) I'm ready whenever. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no. - Finish the pull-up. - The last one of the pull-up is, have you ever been star-struck? - Yeah. - Who, who was that one cursing? - Okay, hold on, okay, first of all, I cannot wait till you tell me. - I have been star-struck, first of all, in hindsight. - Okay. - No, this is interesting. - No, but in real life, I met Lucille Ball. I presented to her, no, no, no, hold on. Okay, hold on. I met Carol Burnett. I presented to her at the, what is it called? Is it Peabody Awards? - Peabody, yeah, Peabody. - I presented to her and I thought I was, I really, I really thought I was gonna lose it. I was like, I got this, I got this, 'cause it's Carol Burnett, okay. - Yeah. - I also met Lucille Ball as a kid. And before I met her, yeah, I know, before I met her, I was told that she was staying on the same hotel floor as us. And I kept going like this, Lucy, I'm home! - Lucy, I'm home. - I literally, I kept screaming it and my sisters were like, will you shut up? And I was like, but she might hear me. Lucille Ball might hear me. Lucy! Lucy, it's Tracy! Like I just kept, she did not hear me, I don't think. But I did meet her and I mean, just stops, just hold the presses, like close the doors, close the windows, like what? Okay, wait, I actually made a list of because I've met some of the most extraordinary people. Andy Warhol painted me and my sisters. - What? - I met him. I was not star-struck, I was actually frightened. Probably to look, he had a very distinct look. - I did not understand what was happening. - It was, he, I mean, I realized so much about Andy's work now as an adult that I didn't understand as a kid. And this kind of satirical, reflective thing that he was always doing, that I creating sort of pop culture in art and mixing them in a way that is, it's kind of extraordinary. - It's extraordinary. And obviously it's inspired where we are today, but I see that kind of meta-narrative happening in different mediums in a way that is very much like a kin to what he introduced. - By the way, speaking of that, I love that you know who Andy Warhol is. I love that you have a sense of like what about it is interesting to you. And as I've gotten older, like I think I thought museums were for people who carried clutches and war and smoked pipes. - Yeah. - I don't know that I thought art was for me. And as an adult, I find, you know, Amy Sherald, Carol Walker. There are theaster gates, knowing Thelma Golden. Do you know Thelma Golden? - No, I don't know. - No, no, no. - I know McLean Thomas, I know he's a Butler. - Yes, but I'm getting a little into Thelma Golden, runs the studio museum of Harlem. She is a curator, she's a black woman. And she's an extraordinary human being. And she is sort of the epicenter of black art in our culture and in our country and in the world, honestly. And I became friends with her. And she walked me, it was the first time I dated a visual artist back in the day. And I went to a museum with him to see his work at Lackman. And I experienced art in a way that I had never experienced before when you're with the artist, 'cause you're not supposed to touch it, it's far away, you know, don't get close. He was like, smell it, touch it, 'cause he made it. And I was so blown away by that and it changed my relationship to art. And then when I went with Thelma Golden, she brought me to the opening of Kerry James Marshall's show in Los Angeles, his full retrospective. And she walked me through the exhibit. And to hear somebody who knows so much about art, explain and talk about a black artist and what, it's something will never leave me. Can I tell you what it is? Please, I'm so. I mean, I don't every word. What she said was, Kerry James Marshall, and I don't even know if this true, but it doesn't matter because of how it stayed with me, that when you're in art school, you learn how to create color based on white, the white color of paint. So you mix with white as the base to create color. And I don't know a lot about color. Kerry creates skin tone using black as the base. And it creates this hue within blackness, that is, I mean, it's such a beautiful thing. And so we talk about Andy Warhol and the art of Ango, this is, you know, these different things that we grew up in school hearing about. But as you get older and you get to experience the breadth of art that has been born out of the black experience, it is phenomenal to me. There's a beautiful documentary that was on HBO that's worth seeing. Anyway, I love what you're speaking to because the entry point of art is, it needs to feel true to you. And I think that I only was able to look at Andy Warhol's work in a different way or even understanding in a different way after I had met Michelean Thomas. And then honestly, even before that, a relationship that I had started to have with the restaurant Alinea in Chicago, where basically my entry point had to be that everybody is storytelling in their medium. I did not understand it that way. I didn't understand, I didn't realize that storytelling wasn't just something that, how I know it narratively and film and television and writing all these different ways to enter. And so when I started doing it with food and seeing about it with food and then I met Michelean and I started to really understand art as that in that way, then it became easier for me to get involved with it, so I definitely got to go check out. And also movement. Dance, I mean, that's a language that is extraordinary, visual language, graphic design and all that. I find that any form of authentic expression lights my soul up. Me too. Just lights my soul up. I mean, oh wait, I have more people in hindsight, because I didn't know how exciting it was. But Marvin Gaye. Oh, you met Marvin Gaye. He used to call the house all the time. Mom, it's Marvin. Now mom, it's Marvin. Mom, it's Michael. I'm not stuck in. By the way, I have a great story from childhood. Evan sounds just like Michael. I know. I think he was very influenced by that stuff. Evan, he's like, hey, hey, hey, hey, okay. Evan's music right now is, has he sent you stuff? He has. It's so good. Evan's always been good, but Evan kills me because every time I see him, he's like, did you say this to my mom? This is in 1999. I know. He loves her. It's the, if Leo doesn't act like that without me, I'm blowing a gag. But here's the thing about Evan and mom that I realized, because I was like, dude, what is the deal? Like, okay, I get it. I've seen the picture. He, I lived it. He didn't. Oh my gosh. You, because you saw him. I lived it. I lived it. I lived it. It was the mom that came home every night. - Oh my gosh, girl, that's crazy. - So I lived it, he didn't. So he's experiencing what I lived through the pictures and the videos that he finds. - It's the sweetest thing. - It is the sweetest thing in the world. - He's like, you said, "Mom, mom, mom, she's just so awesome, man." - I know. - Look at my mom, she's always been a diva. - Does he ever show any pictures? - I'm joking. (laughing) - Is this my mom? - Meat. - Okay. - And whatever. - Marvin Kaye. - Is Marvin Kaye. - Michael, oh, here's my Michael's story and then we'll get off of that. - Oh gosh, please. - The Star Strux. - I did recently meet Martin Short at a value age. - Oh, Martin Short. - And I thought I was gonna, I was like, "I love you, I love you, I love you." - That's half that was Steve Martin too. - I also cried when I met Annie Lamotte, the writer. - The Annie Lamotte. - She's a wonderful writer. And I love her. - What do I know? - Book. - Books. - And I met her and I was like, "I just really love you." And I made a ugly cry. - Michael, my mom was on the phone in a room. And she said, "Does anyone want to talk to Michael "before I hang up?" And I said, "Yes." And I came and I said, "Michael, everybody's school." (laughing) - I'm scared as hell. 'Cause what did you say? - That you're just saying them. I'm just saying them and I know what you're saying. And I told them, 'cause I know you. I said, "You're saying, I've been saying "about the sound of Michael's song. "I've been saying about the sound of Michael's song." And he said, "I'm not, but it should be." (laughing) But that's what I thought he was saying. And I kept, you know how you, when you were a kid, you're like, "My dad's a police officer." You know how you like put whatever. But I was like, "I know him. "I know Michael." And he told me, that's what he's saying. You've been saved by the sound of Michael's song. Every time you sing it, that's what you're singing. I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song. I'm gonna ask him. - No, it's not what he was saying. - Yo, I was saved. - I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song. - Yo, I love I was saved by the sound of Michael's song. - I mean, how many people have been saved by the sound of Michael's song? - I mean, duh. - Yo. - Yo. - It's really funny. - That's way better than my dad thinking he said that the kid is not my son. - Oh, okay. - Why would that be it, dad? I don't know, but the kid is not my, who the fuck is the kid? - I don't know, but the kid is not my son. - Well, maybe that was his name, Chad. But like, do you remember? By the way, I want everyone to know that I have my arms crossed like this and I look like I'm upset because my armpits are sweaty. So this is not my posture. My posture is really like this. But this is a problem. Okay. Okay, anyway. So. - And I'm also like this 'cause I'm like, - Yeah, I'm like, if you don't make sure-- - If you don't make sure that's fine. - We got it, whatever. That's fine. You know what? This is what I always say to people when they get upset on set. And they're like, oh, you got your hair. It's not matching. I'm like, listen. If my acting is, if you are focused on my hair, my acting is not cutting it. - Period. - So our conversation. - It should be so bad. - Go ahead, they shouldn't care. - You don't even know. They don't know. They don't know. - Uh-uh. - But that's okay. - But yes, I was saying something that I don't remember. We was talking about still Michael. We was talking about, say by sign a Michael song. How funny that is. How funny it is to get the lyrics to people's song. - Oh, sooner or later, do you know what I thought that was? - What is it? - Send her a letter. What? What? Well, I mean, but I was singing it in the car once. And my sister was like, what'd you just say? - It's so crazy how we make up this-- - Just making it and then you are in it and committed. - Oh my gosh, it's too funny. - Okay. - I mean, I'm listening. We've talked about so much already. - I know, I know. - But I feel like I have to ask you, like, go. - Was it your intention to become-- - No. (laughing) - No, Kiki. - No. - Because you obviously reflect a version of womanhood that was not in media. Truly, through your characters, through your work, and then even more so as a personality, when did it become something that you were like, oh, this is unique for you guys. I should lean in. Or this is unique for you guys? - No, no, I don't know how to. - So it actually goes further underneath that, which is that I leaned in because it's my truth. There has to be an example somewhere between cat ladies and Joan of Arc, okay? - No, for real. - Okay, all right, there's gotta be-- - For you. - There's gotta be-- - If you've got to be-- - You know what I mean? - Like, there's gotta be, you can be sexy and amazing, and also wanna partner and also live your life, and also not wait, and also-- Like all the things-- - Just be humorous. - Just do it, just go ahead. And I'm sorry it's so confronting for people to have a woman just live out loud. - Yeah. - And yeah, I don't know why that's so confronting for people. It's puzzling to me, but there's a lot of things, Kiki, that I find puzzling, that I think that people get hung up on that I don't understand. - Yeah. - I'm like, why is that so upsetting for you? That seems, I'm just being mean, but I think it's because I can't read people's mind, but what I've at least told myself, when I'm experiencing this kind of big uphill battle for me just simply doing me, is that a lot of people believed that they couldn't. - Yeah. - And yes, they stayed there, and then they're seeing somebody succeed or be happy by not believing it, and then it be creates this resentment where it's like, no, you're not allowed to have this, because they told me-- - I don't know that I find it from the people that stayed small. I find that those are actually the people that feel empowered, or a sense of courage from that, yes. I find that it comes from people, that it threatens their idea of who they want me to be, so that they can get what they want. - And it's like, what do you want from me? - So it's men that would prefer a small lady. I mean, that's not a fair way to put it. - Maybe they feel as if this person's threatened that the status quo. If you feel like this is what you can do or who you can be, and you feel empowered by that image, then in turn, it makes it difficult for me to be able to have that kind of control, or have that kind of-- - I don't know, I really don't know, and I really shoot and (beep) on it. - Yeah, you were shooting the (beep) - I mean, you know, I try really hard not to try and get in people's heads and think what they're thinking, 'cause I am-- - For sure. (beep) - I mean, I'm bumbling along myself trying to figure out this life thing, you know what I mean? - Yeah, yeah. - I don't know. But what I do push up against is anything that makes me feel small. I don't want it. - Yeah. - I want to be able to choose when I want to be smaller, when I want to be big, or when I want to be loud, or when I want to be quiet. I want that to be my choice. And I want it to be everyone's choice. - Yeah. - I really believe that. And I don't know. I mean, I know it's so funny. Sometimes people get so hung up on things I've said, and I'm like, really? Was that something-- - Something-- - That was the thing everyone wanted to talk about? - Knit! - Yeah. - I mean, I feel like it's so cool that you have such a strong sense of self-seeing as how you came from such a big legacy. That seems like something that could really weigh you down, people having expectations of you early on. - I think it did when I was younger. - How did you, was your mom encouraging you? Was it your life experiences? Like how did you be able to not let that burden you? Even before you became famous in your own life? - I mean, even from high school, I felt very aware of being watched. - Yeah. - I remember, yeah, I felt very aware from a young age. I remember, I was like, I can't get in the car with them. I don't know, I would always, you know, I'm a storyteller, and I love, I'm very dramatic. So, I was like, well, I can't get in the car with them 'cause I don't know if they have drugs in the car and then we get pulled over, then it's Dyna Ross's daughter has been pulled over, and it's a cautionary tale, you know. - That should just be out a lot as a kid. - It was always, I always felt, I mean, then also as a black girl, you know, that it's always like you had to be overcompensate for so many perceived things about you, correct. - I gotta be happy 'cause you think I'm angry. I gotta be jazzy 'cause you think I'm too smart. - I gotta be smart 'cause you think I'm dumb. I gotta be blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, like whatever the, whatever the thing. - Wow. - So, and I think that's a universal experience where we share, you know, and then there's the uniqueness of my mom and who she was and who she is, I should say was, but I meant was 'cause I was a kid. - I know what you mean. - So, I don't know, I don't know what other people's thoughts, I mean, I did, I was scrolling through, I was looking for something I did, and I was scrolling, I don't really understand the TikTok. - Yeah, I like the TikTok. - The UI is a little bit tough for me. It's also bam in your face. - It screams at you, sometimes you open it and punches you. But so, I mean, there's sometimes anyway. I went in there and I saw this thing, you know, you get the little seconds of the beginning of the video. Theresa Ellis Ross is a bad example for young girls, and I was like, and I was like, "What? "Scroll!" I said, "I don't know, I feel like I'm a good example." I don't know what you think, but to each his own, I don't have to be everybody's cup of tea. - But it's like every other week, it becomes a thing. Every other week, it becomes a thing about anybody, and it's like, yeah, with the internet, I have a, yeah, I wonder, how do you feel about it? Like, are you the person that's commenting? I feel like I never see you comment back anything. I feel like I only get a chance in a great opportunity to hear from you outside of our great friendship, isn't it interview you decide to talk? Because it is easy to get caught up in the own mind. I feel like it might not, it's just none of my business. - It's just none of my business. - Yeah, it's, that's, yeah. - I mean, I think everybody should do whatever the hell they're doing, but it's just none of my business. - Yeah, I do love posting pretty pictures though. - Girl, I love your page. I love your page, I love your travels, I love everything you give us. I love when you did the video, and so funny, because I'm like, it's like so meta, because I watch girlfriends all the time, so I'm watching you as a performer all the time. Then I do the POV of, you know, you going over the guy's house, and then you do the same thing. And it's almost, it's like, I'm kind of doing you. And then you're joking doing me doing you. And it's like, how is this? - Wait, first of all, I said you look like Maya. I'm wrong. You've got a diner ass thing going on. - Oh my gosh! - Sergio. Sergio, I picked it up. I'm late, but I picked it up, okay? - OMG, Sergio always knows. He always is doing these little-- - Yes, I see what's happening. - Yes, okay. - Good old sir. - Sorry. But yeah, like, so it's so funny. So anyway, social media, you do fun videos, you're really good at it. I mean, what is the process for you with getting it? - I don't do anything for social media. Every once in a while, like that, there were some challenges, is that what you call it? - Yep. - There was some challenge that I did, the lights off one. That was fun, yeah. That was fun. - Sergio energy down. - But mostly, I don't, the truth is, the worst thing that ever happened to anybody was that they put a camera on the phone. - 'Cause growing up, I was the queen of the auto timer. Don't give me a camera. And don't give me a video camera, okay? Do you know about my holiday video that started my career? - No. - Oh, girl. - Come on. - Oh, girl. ♪ Baby, it's this ♪ ♪ He keep calling, yeah ♪ - In every great production, there is the star. And then there's the thing that makes the star look good without ever asking for credit? Think about it. The right lighting paired with a perfectly timed music cue. The one friend who fixes your collar before you walk into a room, they're unsung, but yet absolutely essential. Life is already asking a lot of you. The best things are the ones that take something off your plate without you even having to ask. That's what Fruit of the Loom women's underwear is in my daily lineup. I'm putting together looks, I'm making entrances, I'm doing the most as always. And underneath all of it is something so comfortable and so reliable that I genuinely forget it's there. And when you're going to do the most, the last thing you need is one more decision. Fruit of the Loom is the one I already made. Comfortable, reliable, completely off my mental checklist. The fit doesn't shift and the fabric doesn't fight me. It just lets me do what I do. The most powerful pieces in any ensemble are the ones that elevate without competing. And when something supports you that effortlessly, you stop searching and you start trusting. It becomes the easy choice. Not because it's basic, because it's exactly right. One less thing to figure out, one decision you never have to second guess about. Fruit of the Loom proves that simple feels really good. So I need to talk about something that has been taking up a lot of my mental real estate lately. To start a casual, I just stopped in, wasn't even planning on it. And now, now I'm thinking about it in between meetings, telling people about it who didn't ask. This is a tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. And I am fully aware of how it sounds right now. Guava and patch and fruit flavors. Mango, pineapple flavored pearls at pop, and this butterfly pea flower on top that shifts the color of the whole drink right in front of you. It's beautiful and delicious and mesmerizing. I don't know where this is going, but I'm not asking questions. Unlock your best summer memories with the tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Order now on the app. - So I was, I was, I mean this, I'm always so mindful of how I talk. Okay, anyway, I used a high-at-video camera in my kitchen. And I used to do, I play dress up all the time. It's one of my favorite things to do. If I'm bored, I like to play in my closet. Sometimes I make a good outfit and every once in a while that outfit actually becomes a person. And I have all these alter egos. And so back in what year was I, it was before girlfriends. It was what got me lyricist lounge. My first sketch comedy show. - Yeah, I'm old. - Ur, than you. (laughs) - So I, in my kitchen, in my first apartment in LA, I did a video and it was like proper editing with like tape. Like I went and edited it. It was a VHS tape. (laughs) I have a VHS at home, it was a VHS tape. And it was, happy holidays from me and all my alter egos. And I made this tape and I sent it out to like 52 people. Some family, some people in the business and my mom got ahold of it over Christmas. And she was, she brought me up to her room to talk to me. I was like, she thought she was crazy. She was like, is this the right thing to do and can you get the back? (laughs) - I was like, yeah, it's great. I think it's out of my career. I think now they all know. - Oh my gosh, what did people say back? - Well, it got me the sketch comedy show. - So they did, so they were like, they, you got, what did your mama say then? Well, she like, damn it. - Oh no, she literally later was like, can I make one? (laughs) Yeah, I have all these different parts of me, you know what I mean? Just like you do. I think when you're a big planet, you have a lot of small planets in you that just do all these different things. - Come on, multiverse. - You know what I mean? - We live for, yeah. - That's right, multiverse, I'm taking that. - No seriously. - Yeah, it's just like, you know, some days it's like, the long hair, some days I'm this person, some days I'm that. Yeah. Tell me when you get to a place where you want me to bring my topic. - I want now. - Okay. - Yes. - So I have a question for you. - This is such a key key choice comment topic. - Can we talk about male beauty standards and where they came from? Like, can we even maybe Google it? 'Cause I'm really curious. Where did, I love you. - Where did lining up black men's hair come from? - Where did this come from? - Yeah, the line in the (beep) right? Like, I just want to understand. - When they got the wiping on you. - 'Cause I really love the factory setting. Personally, you know what I mean? I mean, my thing is I want it to lightly touch, but like, you don't need to be like, where it's like a head shape, like a small, like a legume. - A legume is Jane. - We love you. - A legume. - But that's different. Okay, skip. But, where did, where did, I just want to know. Like, you know, we can track back. We're like, some of, we're in a beauty standard. So, where is it? - It had to be somebody in wraps. - You think it was like mace? - Yeah, but his was relaxed. - Yeah, it was, okay. - It was like, he had a soft way, he had it. Like, I feel like it was somebody that was like, probably fulfilling. - Okay, that was where it began. It was like, what's it called? The bank, bank, bank, but when they put the ink, the, that definitely had to be, I feel it was filling. - It was filling. - I feel it was filling. - I mean, like, we know what the con, like back in the day, like we understand all that, but like the line. - But I don't know why they want it. - But it's so tense. - You see me, you see me. - You see me now. - It's so tense. - And some people have the white line. - They keep the white line. And then it has been taken to another level. Because, let me tell you something. A man in cornrows, I'm done. Okay? Give me a hamstring and a corn row and I'm done. I'm done. I'm finished. It's over. Don't, I'm a leg, don't, okay? And cornrows, but if you cornrow and line it up, that's what they'd be doing. - I'm confused. - That's what they'd be doing. It's like a baby hair before the line of the hair of whatever they got going on. But sometimes with the locks, I'm not mad. - Sometimes with the locks. - I'm with you. - I'm not mad, but I do want to know why a previous hairlock. Why a preview hairline before the real hairlock? - I am curious. And this is not a judgment. This is like a real conversation. - No, I want to understand it. - Do you know what they're serious about that? - But like, they're serious about that. - But so serious. And I never seen a woman say, ooh. - I can't wait to see the preview hairline before the hair do. - Like I've never seen that we don't get, we're not like, ooh, we're fine with that. - No. - But I'm like, let me how they feel about us with some of this stuff. - Okay, maybe. But this is what I'm saying. This was not a judgment conversation. - No, it's just a genuine dialogue. - Because I genuinely sometimes think, you know, with women's beauty standards. You're like, you can trace it back. You can understand. I'm like, what was the, you know what I mean? - This is what I'm bringing. Is it that I want you to know that I have a hairline? - That I got money. I got money. - I got money and I'm clean. - I'm clean. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. - I think it has something. I think it does have something to do with like, I'm fresh. - It's like, it's like, it's like washing your shoe laces. No, shoe laces in the sink. It's like shoe laces have a, I get it. But see, I have a lot more appreciation for it when I understand it. - Yes. - And I felt like it was a conversation, the conversation, pre-conversation, the appetizer conversation I wanted to have with you. So that then I could bring it to a galsong and say, talk to me. I wanna know about the hairline. Like when you go get lined up, do you know what I mean? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Okay, but I do love a factory setting. - I like a cool, look, it's gotta be right though. I do like when a brother kinda makes himself, look, make himself look nice, but I don't really love when it's two programs. So I'm with you on the program. - You give me, you give me that corn row, uncorn rowed. - And a hamstring, I'm weak, but neither weak. I can't say no. - I'm screaming. - You're screaming. - So wait a minute, I hope to be screaming. - And a lot of times that's not what happens. - No, no, it's not. But we can hope a girl can dream. A girl can keep walking in that direction and you know what even better? A woman can too. So yeah, I really, I just had, one day I was sitting there, I can't remember who, what I was, oh, I was watching basketball and I was just like, nah. - What is that? - Let me tell you, basketball, they don't create the biggest hamstrings because they need to be agile. - What do you mean? - Okay. - If you think of a hamstring, what sport do you think of? - Football. - They got hamstrings in their neck too. - Okay, I didn't say I wanted a neck. - I didn't say I wanted a hamstring in the neck. I don't want, I do sometimes wonder when the neck comes out of the ears. - Yes, yes. - You know, I'm not saying that. Why, what's doing that? - Well, think about it this way, if your head's gonna get knocked around like that, you better make that strong. Again, do you know what I mean? You got to say it's safety. Safety, it's a safety, you know what I mean? Kiki, Kiki, it's a safety neck. (crickets chirping) Oh my god. It's a safety neck. No, it's a safety neck. First of all, you know what we're gonna do. - Oh my god. - Kiki, Kiki, do you know what our next television show is? - What is it? 'Cause we need it. - First of all, you and I are gonna do a movie. That's for sure. But we need to do a TV show where you and I just commentate on the sports. And we just sit there, we just need to sit there and do our homework. Did you see the way you put that ball in the net? - Did you see that? - Did you see that thing? - It's so sexual. - Oh my god. - When you drop down the net, - Did you see that? - Yeah, he fell on the floor. It's all wet down there. (laughing) - And who's the ref? - Yeah. - Talks, who's the guy he talks to much. - He talks to him that he's always wearing black and they don't have no other colors for him. - Uh-uh, they need to get some more colors for those people. - That's good. - I wanna whistle like the ref. - Oh my god. - I wanna get out there. - Kiki, we're totally-- - I wanna yell at somebody. - Exactly, Kiki. - We are totally doing that show. - I'm here for that. - Yes. - I know some people we could call. - Oh, we're gonna call them. - Come on. - And generationally, I feel like we will tap all. - And we can even go back and do comparisons of oh my god. - Oh my god. - We can go to school. - Yes, and talk about that. - So we can get into the-- - Oh my god. - That's so good. - Okay. - Who was really fine and why? - And by the way, did they're fine from back then hold up now, like when you look at it, 'cause I look back at some of my childhood crushes. - I didn't realize that Michael Jordan was fine. - Oh, I knew. I didn't realize when I looked back now. - No, no, it's unbelievable. Those early pictures and the clothes, I can't. So it's literally heart-stopping. - Absolutely. - It is heart-stopping. - He didn't have no business being like that. - No. - And that good? - And that good. - Michael Jordan. - Oh god. - How'd it be like, fuck off? - Jordan! - Yeah. - Like what? I just like, no, no, no, no, no. We're at the game, we're at the game. We're at the game. It's literally, I would have been up there. - Wait, Kiki, you just did something that I need to understand because all the kids are doing this. What is that? - It's just a freak crazy (beep) - Okay, I was trying to be like, that is insane. - Just doing some (beep) - It is. - We be doing too much. - Kiki, I mean, I'm gonna do it. - It just reminds me of this back and back. - Yeah, exactly. - That's bad. - Okay, but I'm gonna do, this is hilarious. - I don't know what it is. - I don't know, I'm tired of the millennial world. - It's exhausted me. - Am I doing right? Am I doing too much? (laughs) - Safety neck. - Oh. - Not over it. - Safety neck? - This is a safety neck. - It's a safety neck. - You're good. - That's gonna be the name of our show. - That safety neck. - Safety neck. We'll try and see how it's Ross and Kiki. I'm here for a beyond. - Oh my God. - So it's only one thing that's left to do. Which is to play a little game. - Oh my God, give it. - Okay, if the game is called something behind me. - Oh, is it? Oh yeah, that's a card for you. It's called acting casual. Okay, we're gonna give each other awkward dating scenarios and take turns acting out how we'd handle them. - Okay. - While pretending we're completely fine. Okay, so I'll give you one first. - Okay. - You're trying to be mysterious and sexy on a date, but you think you have food in your teeth. - Okay. - I'm gonna act it out. - Yep. (Kiki and Kiki laughing) - No, I love that. Do you want another drink? - Yeah, I will. (Kiki and Kiki laughing) - It's good. That was 'cause I made what else you can do. (Kiki and Kiki laughing) I had something in my tooth. Who doesn't love that? (Kiki and Kiki laughing) Who doesn't love that? I'm in love. - Okay, okay. - Okay, where am I gonna get now? - Where am I gonna get now? - Oh, I'm just gonna act it out for you. So, I'm gonna do something and I want you to not get awkward. Okay. You have really amazing eyes. Thank you. - Oh, you did not get awkward. 'Cause, me in a good way. - That's so nice. - You would say to me. - He compliments you and you're trying to receive it without getting awkward. You did great. - Oh my gosh. - You did great. Okay, you did great. Like, you, I did the Oscar come in. (Kiki and Kiki laughing) I don't know where it is. - Oh well. - Okay, wait a minute, okay. So, I'm gonna ask you something. - Okay. - I'm gonna say something to you. - Okay. - And you're gonna pretend that you're not disappointed. - Okay. - Uh-oh. (Kiki and Kiki laughing) - I do not have a poker face. - Okay. - Yeah, yeah. I feel exactly what you're saying from. But to be honest with you, I'm not really looking for anything serious. - Me neither. - I thought we were just gonna have sex. (Kiki and Kiki laughing) (Kiki and Kiki laughing) - I don't know. Did I, did I play it all well? That was excellent. (Kiki and Kiki laughing) - Yo, she's a me either. (Kiki and Kiki laughing) - How's my insides are crushed, crushed? - As you ride with your car over my heart. - No serious way. - And get a stuck in your tire. - Like literally. - Like why are we here? - And it's like what would be the proper response? Like if I wasn't trying to be on my best behavior, would it be? (beep) Or would it be? - Wow, that really has hurt me, but I don't think I can really be around you too much, but I've had a great time. Like what do you then say? - I don't know. And why are you telling me right now? - Yeah. - We're still on the date. - Oh, here, wait, try it again. Try it again. - I've always had a really great time with you and I feel everything you saying, but I'm not really like for anything serious right now. Are you still gonna pay? (Kiki and Kiki laughing) - I was that. - Exactly. - Okay, I got another one. I got another one. - Okay, okay. - Yeah, I've, you know, I love everything. I always, they have with us, but, you know, just be honest, I'm not like for anything serious. - I'm glad you said that because you have a friend that I really want you to set me up with. (Kiki and Kiki laughing) - Now, that's the (beep) one. - I mean, oh my God, I'm kicking. - That's the one. - Oh my gosh, because I was starting to realize that I chose the wrong person. Like, thank God you said it. - No, I don't have to say it. - You're the least. - Okay, I'm gonna text you. I text you during your date. He's talking, as in me, and I ask you how it's going. - Okay. - What would you say in the text? Are you gonna text me right now? - No, I thought I was just playing it out. - Oh, you can't text me right now. - I'm already, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say. - Okay, so you're the guy. You're gonna say something to him. - So yeah, I was, I really loved the way, you know, when they were playing in the game, those guys all made the baskets. That was my favorite part of the game. And I'm glad you went with me. And I loved what you were wearing. I wish you'd worn heels though. - Oh my gosh. - Yeah. - Thank you, boo. (laughs) This (beep) crazy, I'm ready to go home. - She's saying, he ain't saying this. (beep) - I wanna go home. - Because, that's how they beat 'em sometimes. Every now and then, you get a real good conversation because sometimes-- - He's very (beep) - You know what I love? - We talk about him. - We talk about him. - He gives good text. - Oh my gosh. - Text banter is really fun. - I like text banter too. I like also like, keep it spicy, keep it fun. Like sometimes I do think I have this effect where it's like, I become a man's journal entry. (laughs) - No, that's too much. - I don't want that. - Especially in the first week. - It's too much. Just give me sex, kiddin'. Let me be Jack A. Harry. - No. - Oh. - No, you know. - Tired it. - I'm so dead right now. I'm so dead right now. - All right, well that's my last one. - First of all. - Yeah, I wanna be, I can get a little, but you gotta give me a chance. You can't keep just opening up to me. I know I'm easy to talk to. - Yeah, no, I got it. - But open up my legs. - And we can get something. - That's so interesting. - Wow. - Also kissing is really underrated. - Oh my gosh. - My god, if you can't do it, just kiss. - Walk away. - Literally kiss, kiss, kiss. - More kissing, let's just like. - What are you doing right now, Kiki? (laughs) - Just throw my white Kiki. - More kissing, less, less. - No, Kiki, no. - No. - That's for year two, honey. - With a consent form. - Oh my God, that is so funny. - Yeah, I feel like when there's no kissing, there's no build up. - Agree. - We need a build up. - I mean, it's that's, you know. - I mean, we could talk. - It's a lost art, the foreplay. - I think it is. And I, and I, to conversation is foreplay. And that's the biggest one. - I mean, it isn't for everybody. - It is for me. - Yeah. - It is for me too, because-- - Wait, what is my love language? First of all, I love consistent connection. So what would that be is a love language? - It would be anything, I could be send to you pictures, I could be texting, I could be calling. - I'm not a gift person. - Yeah. - I don't care much about it. - For me, quality time. - Oh, okay, okay. - Be in tension with my spending time with me. - Boom. - And physical touch. - I want quality time. - I want you to be like, I figured that it would be, and I don't know what you're up to, but this weekend, if you want to go away and just go like me and you. - Plans. Is that quality time? - Yes, maybe planning the time with you girl. - Yes, I love this, I love this. And it's the smallest things. - It's the smallest thing. - I just want to be in a room with you. - Ah, yes. - Alone. (laughing) - And then I'm ready to go. - I just want to-- - It doesn't last for too long. - You know, in a room with you, alone. - Two days max, and then I have to do. (laughing) - And then I'll be back for season two. - Oh my god, this is so interesting. Yes, get 'em out that out. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Anyway. - So, thank you Nick. - I mean you. - This was the most enjoyable conversation I've had since dinner. You're always the best. I mean, it's literally like a big hug, a nice drink. - I mean, you are the best. - You are the best. - It's, the world is lucky we have you. - It is. - I'm like obsessed with you, but you already know that. - No, all right. - Amazing. That was so fun. (upbeat music) - This conversation is a reminder that a full life doesn't have to follow one timeline or fit one definition. So if you take anything from this episode, let it be this. Your life is not on hold. Trust the life you're building. Trust the love that's already around you. And trust yourself enough to know that your path doesn't have to look like anybody else's. Baby, this is Kiki Po. ♪ Baby, this is, this is Kiki ♪ ♪ Baby, this is, Kiki Po, yeah ♪