Why The Stock Market Is Booming — But Your Paycheck Isn't

Support for the show comes from Alphaspace by Yahoo Finance. Alphaspace by Yahoo Finance is the advanced investing platform you've been waiting for. My co-host Scott Galloway is a fan of the platform. Here is what he had to say. So I have been using Yahoo Finance as my portal for finance for, I'm not exaggerating, about 30 years. I think they do a great job. You can explore Alphaspace with a Yahoo Finance Gold subscription, and right now your first year is 50% off. Head to yahoofinance.com slash profg. That's yahoofinance.com slash profg. Bill, there's $239.70 for the first year, then $479.40 thereafter. Offer valid for new subscribers in the US. Offer ends October 31st, 2026. When it comes to your business, you want cards and tools you can trust. Amex Corporate helps put you in control. Set custom spend parameters to help fit your business needs, and quickly issue unlimited corporate cashback cards. All backed by best-in-class fraud protection and the powerful backing of American Express. Get started at go.amex.com slash amexcorporate. Terms apply. I'm Anna Garten, and each week on Happy Hour, I invite. new and old friends for a drink and a fun conversation at my kitchen table in New York City. On this week's episode, I'm joined by Julia Louis-Dreyfus. We talk all about attending a fashion show in Paris together, throwing dinner parties, and making her Broadway debut in other desert cities. New episodes of Happy Hour are available every Wednesday. You can watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Cheers. Today's number three. Americans are three times more likely to purchase an audiobook read by a British narrator than an American one. Just a case in point here, when Ed says inflation is at 3.6%, he sounds like the governor of the Bank of England. When I say it, I look like a divorced dad yelling at a bank teller. My favorite opening number. Really, that's my career in a number right there. I don't know if you remember the first time as a child you actually discovered nuance. I remember my dad's 40th birthday party. I was five. And they had all these people, and they put notes on the back. They put note cards describing people and taped them to the back. And I remember one of my dad's friends got offended. I remember that. About what they said about him. But I remember going to my mom. I remember seeing men would laugh at anything my dad said. If he stopped and laughed, like it was a joke, in his deep glass Ouija. When he got drunk, it sounded like, when he spoke, it sounded like a dead language that twins can only understand. So good. But he would tell a joke and then pause and look around and start laughing. And everyone would laugh. And I noticed women were constantly, touching my dad's arm when he'd talk. And I went back to my mom and I said, "Mom, what dad says, isn't that interesting?" And yet everyone finds him fascinating. What's going on? And my mother said, "He's charming." And I've said that part of the reason I'm so traumatized, let's bring this back to me, is because my dad started banging a flight attendant on Continental Airlines while I was still married to my mom. But the reason he got to do that is that when you're in seventies California with a strong jaw, jawline, and a glass Ouijan accent, you can not only think with your dick, you can listen to it. My dad, I'm convinced my dad ended up penniless and alone because of his Scottish accent. Any thoughts Ed? No, I think this is just incredible analysis. There is something about those people who they tell a joke and then they start the laughter and then it triggers everyone else's laughter. And it feels like you're cheating. It's like, isn't it supposed to be up to us? But it works. Yeah. And you, and I mean, I honestly, I love those people. I have friends who do the same way. They say something, then they start bursting out laughing and then suddenly you're like, fuck it. Like this guy's hilarious. I love this. So that's sort of the cheat code. If you can kind of figure out how to be the loudest laugher at your own jokes and time it right, I think it is very powerful. And your dad is case in point. Also helps to have a Scottish accent because those accents are crazy. I want to stay on this topic of anthropology and mating. Because after listening to Paul Kudrowski and Mark Zandi, it's clear I know fucking nothing about the markets yesterday and I can't add no value to this show. So I want to talk about mating and lessons for young people. The three things women find most attractive in men, and by the way, about 82% of our listenership is males under the age of 40, is one, signaling resources. And the key word there is signal. Don't have to have the Range Rover now. You have to have your shit together. I get Allison. You signal a lot of future resources. Two. And a British accent. Two, intelligence. It's anthropological. The person who makes a better decision for his family, the family is more likely to survive. And the fastest way to communicate intelligence is humor. Yeah. And it's hard to tell someone to be funny. Like, I'm naturally funny. I won most comical in the ninth grade. I don't know if I brought that up before. Anyways. I think that is your proudest achievement, by the way, is the— Oh, hands down. Hands down. Better than New York Times bestseller. Yeah, but the thing is you can't tell someone. You can't advise. A young man will be funny. But what you can do is say, have a great sense of humor. And that is laugh at yourself. And when someone else says something funny or you try to be funny, laugh. Yes. Laughter is infectious. 100%. Laugh a lot. Have a good laugh. Maybe work on your laugh a little bit. And also don't take yourself seriously. I think—I agree. You can't be like, okay, you need to be funny now. Figure it out. But the path to having that sort of—having those characteristics is if you— if you can take yourself unseriously, then I think people appreciate that. And I think it works. So— I think that's right. Laugh at yourself. Have a good laugh. Okay. Well, now that we've figured out how to increase the prospects of men's dating lives, shall we get into the markets? Mm-hmm. All right. And by the way, if you like this show, please be sure to hit follow wherever you're listening or subscribe to us on YouTube and hit the bell icon. That way you get notifications to all of our latest episodes. We appreciate it. A lot. Oh, by the way, Ed, I don't know if you know this, but I have another podcast called Pivot, and we're going on a tour. Yes. Starting November the 2nd, I believe. We're going to—we're going to be in New York, Toronto. Toronto's already sold out. Minneapolis, L.A., San Francisco. And I got to choose a city this time. They throw me bones every once in a while. I picked Denver. So we're going to the great state of Colorado. I like it. So we're almost sold out on three of the six or seven cities. So if you're interested— If you're interested, go to pivottour.com. We'll have live Q&A. We always have special guests. Cara does have a Rolodex deeper than—I don't know—deeper than someone with a very deep Rolodex. So we'll have great—we'll have great guests. Any hints on the special guests? Any—anything? We might have the infamous Ali G, but I'm just saying. Wow. Yeah, which would be fun. That would be great. Yeah. No, Cara always—I got to be honest, Cara always brings it on the guests. I think Cara's secretly the most powerful person in the world. You're like, oh, you know, what do we think of—what do we think of Secretary Rubio? She's like, I don't know. Let me text him. And she gets back, oh, he's making a dumb lesbian joke. Hold on. She's like—she knows—she literally knows everybody. When I went to the White House with her—god, this delaying is working really well. When I went to the White House with her, literally everybody stopped and ran over and hugged her. People who I know hate her. People are very scared of her. They think she brings the— A hundred percent. The militia Etheridge vote, and they're very— Immediately come on. They're very— Oh, yeah, immediately. All right, let's talk about AI or inflation. Let's do it. Now is the time to fly. I hope you have plenty of the wherewithal. The latest inflation data is raising some major red flags about the economy. Consumer prices rose 3.7% in September from a year earlier, which is the highest annual rate since May. Energy was a major driver, with gas prices up more than 9%. Over the month, and 34% over the past year. And producer prices also came out. They rose 6.3%, which was their largest jump in four years. At the same time, Americans' inflation-adjusted earnings have now declined for six consecutive months. In September, average hourly earnings fell 0.7% from a year earlier, meaning that workers' paychecks are not keeping up with rising prices. So, Scott, let's dig into this inflation report. I would say, probably— The worst inflation report of the year, just given the fact that it appears that prices are not coming down, they continue to rise, it's been going on for a very long time, and most importantly, wages continue to fall behind. So wages grew 3%, which means that they grew slower than prices, which grew 3.7%, which means that when you adjust for inflation, your real earnings fell by 0.7% year over year, and that is the sixth straight month where that has happened. So— —Americans are continually getting poorer as a result of the rising prices, which is mostly— due to, one, the war, and two, tariffs. But we're really seeing the effects on energy with gas prices up 34% year over year. That is related to what's going on in Iran. I mean, nothing good here, in my view, your reactions to the inflation report. I think you're right. This is really ugly, and it's terrible timing for the Trump administration heading into the midterms. A few bits of nuance or observations, and I'd like to get your response. Gas prices are just, no doubt about it, absolutely treacherous, increasing gas prices for the incumbent administration. Grocery stores will price diapers below cost in the store, because they've done a ton of consumer research, and women who do the majority of the shopping, for some reason, diapers are an enormous signal around the value of the store. You know what I mean? If they see diapers as being inexpensive, they think everything at Whole Foods, including that $22 bunch of grapes, is reasonably priced. It is a super strong signal. Think about just how incredibly powerful an indicator and signal, and probably, quite frankly, a bit of a false flag, as important as they are, is gas prices. I counted, I came back, I was at my son's grandparents yesterday for lunch, and on the way back, I counted how many times there was a giant, giant ad for Democrats called gas prices. And that is every time you go by a gas station, and they're literally every three blocks here in Florida, I'm down in Delray Beach, there's a giant, really pretty neon screen that is updated daily with a number on it. And so every day, sometimes a dozen times a day, the average consumer, American consumer, is hearing subliminally or consciously and subconsciously, this administration is failing. Because what I see, I'm driving and I think, Jesus Christ, diesel at $7.69 a gallon? So gas prices are just such, A, they're important, and B, they have outsized importance in terms of consumer perception. And then, in addition, the average consumer is hearing subliminally or consciously and subconsciously, this administration is failing. And so every day, sometimes I'm driving and I think, Jesus Christ, diesel at $7.69 a gallon? And so every day, sometimes a dozen times a day, the average consumer is hearing subliminally or consciously and subconsciously, this administration is failing. And so every day, sometimes a dozen times a day, the average consumer is failing. The justified anger among people your age is the following. Since 2022, just literally four years, wealth for Americans 75 and up is up 37%. For people 35 and under, it's down 23%. So when people get angry at me for talking about why socialism doesn't work, they just look at me and they say, bitch, whatever has worked for you is not working for me. And you can understand. Inflation is a regressive tax with a birth certificate. If you own assets, it's a tailwind. But if you're young and renting, it's a mugging. And America is being mugged right now. Just on the idea of gas as, I mean, having outsized importance, I think what I would say is it has outsized importance. I think it has outsized importance. I think it has outsized exposure in public perception, which is why it really matters politically. And I think the same is true, by the way, of the stock markets. The stock market is one of those things that you're constantly getting an update in real time. You're constantly seeing the number. Generally speaking, you know what that number is. The same is true of gas prices. So if you have something go wrong in the stock market, people go, oh my gosh, something's going wrong. If you have something go wrong with gas prices, same thing. I still think, though, that gas prices actually very important in terms of actual inflation. And we've seen this as a result of what's happened after the war or during the war, where you've had diesel prices rise close to 70% since the beginning of the war. And as we started to learn, it actually does trickle through to the rest of the economy because diesel is used for fertilizer, which is used to grow food. It's used for transportation, which is used to transport all of our products. And we have seen price increase in the rest of the economy. We're seeing that core CPI is rising close to 3%, over 2.5%. It's lower than we're seeing in the price increases in energy, but it does all trickle down. And then, of course, gas is one of those things that most Americans are using directly every day. So in that way, it really does matter. I think that there have been some other false flags that the one of them that I keep on seeing is they say consumer spending is rising, which is true. It rose 6.1%. And the idea when they say that is, well, everyone's spending money, so things must be good, right? Yeah, okay, inflation's up, but it's okay because you guys are spending, so clearly you have money. But there are some very important things to factor in there. One, spending is up because prices are up. So, of course, we're spending more. Two, spending is also up because savings are down. When we look at the savings rates, since Trump took office, it was 5.7%. It's fallen down to 4.1%, which is the lowest in nearly four years. So, in other words, yeah, people are spending more, trying to keep up with inflation, and as a result, they are eating into their own savings. So, no, I don't look at the consumer spending and think, oh, that's a good thing. And then, of course, the other thing that we've talked extensively about with Mark Zandi is that, increasingly, consumer spending is driven by the consumer spending at this point. So, that is a real false flag there, and which is why I think it's so important, when we look at inflation, we look at the economy, I think the most important number is real wage growth. I think that's the thing that matters. If prices are up, but wages are rising higher, that's fine. People are technically getting richer. But that's not what we have right now. And as you pointed out, since Trump took office, the inflation-adjusted wage growth for the average American has gone up. So, I think that's the thing that matters. It has been zero. They're standing still. And you might say, okay, so everything's sort of the same. What I would add on to that, look at what has happened to corporate earnings. Look at what's happened to profits. S&P 500 earnings in that same timeframe have grown almost 40% since he took office. And I think that right there shows you what is happening in this economy, which is that AI is happening, GDP is growing, productivity is going up, corporate earnings are going up, are exploding. And we're seeing that reflected in the stock market itself, which is growing as well. But that's the point here. The economy is roaring only for corporations. And somehow, while that is happening, literally zero of the gains have accrued to American workers. And I think it's the same thing that you and I have talked about for years now. It is the same K-shaped trend. It's the same trend that aligns also with the data that you presented on different age groups, where young people who don't have a job, they don't have a job, they don't have a job, they don't own as many stocks, and who make their living through a wage or through a salary, they've seen their wealth decline over the past several years. And the people at the top, the boomers, 75 and older, they've seen their wealth explode. So I look at these numbers, and to me, it's like, this is the K-shape on steroids. It's the same thing that we've been seeing for years. Trump came in, and he has essentially made it worse. And now we're seeing it. It's verified in the data. People are getting poorer if they're making money on a salary. — American families are more behind on their finances than at any time since 2010 after the Great Financial Recession. And six months ago, Kyla Scanlon coined the term vibe session, because she said, if you actually look at the data, the economy is doing okay, and wage growth at the low end has outpaced wage growth everywhere else. Right now, you'd have to argue that the vibes are correct. And just on Zandi's point, and we've been talking about how the top 10% are driving 50% of consumer spending, it's the ultimate upward spiral, because the stock market has boomed, mostly driven by hyperscalers and the AI trade. And that's come off a bit, but it's still way up. The stock market is way up. That has an enormous positive benefit and psychological benefit on the top 10%, now responsible for 50% of consumer spending. In addition, I think the chaser effect is coming out of COVID, a lot of people are like, what the fuck am I waiting for? I'm going to take my husband to Africa. If I have the money, I'm going to Ibiza. I do think there's an IRL, if you have the money, people are going to spend, and you see earnings growth way up. But the trade that marks the age, or the event that marks the age, is most recently, Meta laid off 8,000 people to increase its capex, mostly to buy more chips. Laying off 8,000 people, buy more chips, stock goes up. So it's great to be a shareholder of NVIDIA, right? It's great to be one of the survivors of Meta. It sucks to be everybody else. And this kind of marks the AI age. If you're one of the few that's on the right side of the trade in the K, right, in the upward stick of the K, it's never been better. And I think that's across everything in our economy. I think travel, healthcare, services have never been better. If you're on the right side, but we've outsourced all the pain to the lower, you'd probably say the lower 60 or 70, because people would say the people in the 80th or 90th percentile are still doing pretty well. But this is, I mean, this is, people think a revolution starts because someone doesn't have a job. If you look at history, it doesn't start when people don't have a job. It starts when people have to have a second and a third job to make their rent. I think this is, like, the most important advertisement for why everyone needs to be laser focused on being, well, so we'll get to that, voting, but also investing. But, like, you have to be on the right side of this trade. And you, like, I don't really care where you are in terms of your career. You need to be thinking about how am I taking money out of my paycheck and how am I investing it in the stock market? Because we're seeing the divergence. People who forget to do that or they're not disciplined enough to do it or they don't make enough money to do it. I mean, whatever the reason is, those people are being screwed perpetually. Every single year. And the effects are compounding. And that's essentially what this inflation report is telling us. Like, if you are not investing into assets, if you're not investing into equities, you are not only falling behind, but you're falling miles and miles behind. Like, it is so essential to be thinking about that and be thinking about ways to make it easier for you, as you talk about a lot. Can you think about ways to automate your investments? Can you build forced savings mechanisms such that you are, you know, without even thinking. Without even thinking about it, investing in the stock market. But that's the learning here. Because if you're not, you're just, you're falling so far behind. And yes, the stock market has ripped. And meanwhile, if you haven't invested or if you're just making your paycheck, you're flat. Because prices are rising so fast and inflation appears to be something that's going to be here for a very long time. We've been way off 2% for several years now. I mean, it's almost a joke that the Fed's target is 2%. I don't even take it seriously, like even remotely take it seriously anymore. They keep saying it, but I just don't really believe it at this point. But that to me is the learning. As you say, though, the other learning is vote. What Trump has done here and the impact on the economy is absolutely striking. It's actually unprecedented. We actually haven't probably seen it since after the Great Depression, we decided to constrain fiscal spending. That was probably the biggest mistake we could have made in the 20th century economically. But going back to just a learning for young people, whatever you can do, and I'm trying to instill this with my son, I tell him he got into stocks and he got into crypto. I don't like crypto, but I'm like, if you want to buy it for every dollar you earn through chores, I'll match it if you invest it. And then he got into Pokemon and I'm like, Pokemon is an asset, buy cards, and he saved up and he bought a $30 card, he goes and he waits in line with his friends. What's up each other for drops at different retailers around London to try and get the cards during the drops. Your job as a young person is to figure out what you're good at, to focus on it, to have some discipline, do everything you can. And like you said, try and make sure the money never gets into your hands. And by the way, do as I say, not as I did. When I was your age, Ed, I thought I was going to be such a baller. I had some early success. I'm like, I'm going to sell this company profit for $10 million. I'm going to take Red Envelope public. And I didn't save. I'm like, I had all my equity in my companies. I was always doubling down. And I ended up 42, divorced, and broke. And it was very, very anxious for me. And if I had just been a little less fucking stupid and taken $20,000, $30,000 a year, which I could have done fairly easily and just put it into a boring low-cost index fund. By the time I was 42, I was like, oh, shit, I'm fucked. Everything I've touched has turned to shit. And my wife has kicked me to the curb. I could have turned to Vanguard, and I would have had $2 or $3 million such that I could have exhaled. Instead, I'm like, oh, fuck, I've got to start a Joey Bag of Donuts podcast with this Merchant Ivory-voiced young douchebag to try and get back in the game. Did I just say that out loud? I should be on the beach right now. I should be playing shuffleboard with a hot little 55-year-old. 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On Tuesday, the yield on one of its bonds touched 15%, its highest ever, raising concerns about whether the company can manage its massive debt load. Its stock then plunged more than 20%, dragging down other AI infrastructure players as well, including Oracle, Nebius, Broadcom, NVIDIA, TSMC, and Micron, which all ended the day lower. Meanwhile, Anthropic gave potential investors a closer look at its financials during a day of presentations. The company said its third quarter revenue rose nearly 50% to $16.8 billion, but that growth was slower than investors had expected, which raised concerns as the company reportedly eyes a public debut at a $2 trillion valuation. So, Scott, bad week for AI stocks, and I think some people probably see that Anthropic number, they go, wow, $16.8 billion, up 45% from. the previous quarter, which, of course, those are big numbers. But you also have to remember that that is a pretty significant slowdown from the previous quarter, where revenue had more than doubled. And that aligns with the data that we've seen from Ramp, which has showed that per-employee spending on AI among the top spenders who drive most of these revenues for these businesses has actually come down since the summer. And a lot of investors were kind of expecting that the line's not only going to continue to go up for Anthropic, and for OpenAI, but it's going to go straight up. It's going to be literally like a rocket ship. And suddenly we're seeing, yes, growth is extremely strong, but not meteoric the way that it has been before. So that was a problem, which actually sent AI stocks even lower towards the end of the week. And then we also got kind of a sense of their profitability, but not really. They, we got their gross margins, which were 85%. And that was on an unadjusted, adjusted basis. However, the gross margins are excluding the training costs, which are the company's largest expense. So I don't really care about the gross margin because I'm like, okay, how much does it cost to actually train your models and build these things? And if we're just going to take that out and be like, oh, it's all, it's all fine. It doesn't really work for me. And I think that's what investors felt as well. Then we got that, then we got the kind of the BS. We got the adjusted operating margin of 11%. But what does the adjusted actually mean? We heard that they are profitable on an adjusted basis. Again, what does adjustment mean? What are the actual adjustments? I can say that I'm six foot six on an adjusted basis because I'm wearing, you know, lifts in my shoes, but what are we actually saying here? And so my reaction to these numbers, we haven't really learned anything. Again, I want to know what the adjustments are. I still get the sense that this is a massively unprofitable company because of the training costs. Seems like there, there are a lot more, uh, uh, urgent and responsible than open AI when it comes to spending. But still, I haven't seen evidence that the unit economics makes sense here. And I think that that anxiety is being reflected in the AI trade right now. Core weave is its own separate issue. Maybe let's just start with the, your reactions to Anthropix numbers. It feels like a string is being pulled here and the string being pulled might be core weave or the neocloud segment. They've all gotten, they've all traded down in sympathy. And the basic financial lesson that, I don't think a lot of people have learned when they look at stocks is you got to look at the enterprise value. And that is, all right, right now, core weave has a $37 billion market cap, but it has a $90 billion enterprise value because it has 52 billion in debt. So you've always got to look at the debt. And basically when you have $90 billion in debt with a $37 billion market cap, if people were to decide that the AI trade is the, the blooms off the rose or we've as an enterprise were to lose a third of its value, essentially its equity goes to zero. Now that's a little bit misleading because the debt is already 80 cents on the dollar. So technically the debt is 40 billion, but you, when you have a company where two thirds of its enterprise value is in the debt, you're basically, the equity is the tail of the whip. And you've always got to think, okay, what, you know, I am really in, you know, I am really in absorbing a lot of risk here. And then when the debt's at 15%, that's basically saying there's a really decent chance these people aren't going to be able to pay back their debt. And what's so interesting, and this came up with Paul Kudrowski yesterday, is that demand for compute or demand for these tokens is still skyrocketing, but the cost of tokens has been cut by about 90%. So unless the demand is up 10 X, you're running in place. And this goes back to a prediction. We made earlier in the year that I'm doubling down on. I think she is coming for the jugular of the American economy and is dumping AI, compute, inference, LLMs, whatever you want to call it, and has reflected in the plummeting price of tokens, which is starting to weigh on these guys. Because the amount of debt they have taken out to buy these GPUs, to offer this compute where the prices they get in the marketplace so they can command is dropping dramatically, is showing up, and people's insecurity around the debt. And if CoreWeave goes from whatever it is, 65 bucks to six bucks, it's not that it's lost 90% of its enterprise value, or that the company has lost 90% of its value. It's that it's lost 40% or maybe 50%. The debt will go down, but the equity is the tail of the whip here. The more interesting question is, will this jump the lap? Will this go upstream into the LLM and app layer? Will it go downstream into the chips and infrastructure and even the power layer? A lot of power companies have seen their stock surge, right? Could we end up, quite frankly, in a power glut where these chips get more efficient, there's not as much demand, they go bankrupt, 70, 80% of the data centers on the drawing board never leave the drawing board, and all of a sudden, you know, Constellation Energy sees its demand go down. Whatever it might be, right? The neo-clouds or whatever we call this sector, we have full-blown walking pneumonia right now. And the entire world is focused on these things. The question is, does it jump the lap and go upstream or downstream? And I'm curious, you've been following this trade much closer to me, if you think that might happen. Well, I think we're starting to already see signs of it. And I think we got a little bit of that evidence in the past week, where it started with where the debt, the yield on the debt exploded, and then suddenly the equity comes down. And I'm just going to go through some of the stock returns that we saw over the past week. And this is data from one of our sponsors, AlphaSpace by Yahoo Finance, which we've been using in a lot of our analysis. The neo-cloud, so CoreWeave fell 26% last week. Nebius, also a neo-cloud, falls 22% last week. Then you go to the memory chip, makers. Samsung, down 14%. Micron, 16%. SK Hynix, down 18%. Then you go to the GPU makers, the processing chip makers. NVIDIA fell 7% last week. AMD fell 12%. Intel fell 13%. You look at some of the data center providers, like Oracle, which I think is sort of this hybrid between a hyperscaler and also kind of a neo-cloud, because they're borrowing at levels like the neo-clouds, which fell 9%. So you have, a lot of pain that is being reflected and triggered on the news of a single company, because it says something about the entire trade itself. And I think that is really important. And by the way, this is something that makes me feel actually a little bit more confident in this market, which is that it seems that valuations, I mean, they've certainly contracted from last year and it's taken a little bit of time for investors to properly digest this. But it does seem like valuations in the public markets right now are getting a little bit more sensible. And so I'm actually a little bit less worried about some of the big names. I'm not so worried about NVIDIA, for example, which is trading at, you know, 16 times forward PE. You know, that's okay for me. I'm actually not terribly worried about the memory makers as well. Yes, they've had these huge run ups, but on a multiple basis, they're still trading at like three, four, five times forward earnings. Here's where I do get worried. Anthropic and open AI. That to me is where the dislocation is. And I think it's this divide between the public markets, which have a very different risk profile, similar to how bonds and stock bond investors and stock investors have a very different risk profile. They're different people. As Katie Martin told us, they have different tolerance for risk. But the private investors, the VCs, the people in Silicon Valley, they live in a completely different world where they don't really care about things like debt. They don't really care about things like profitability. They care about, is the technology good? And do we have a generational founder running the company? That's what they're focused on. And I think that we see that reflected in the valuations of Anthropic, $2 trillion, supposedly, and OpenAI, $1.5 trillion, supposedly. But if you were to see the same level of skepticism that we're seeing reflected in public stocks right now, if you were to see the same multiples, you look at the chip makers, which are trading at 10 times sales right now. If you would apply that to Anthropic right now, which, based on its most recent ARR, is trading at more than 30 times sales, then you're looking, if it starts to trade, like some of the big AI names in the public markets right now, you're looking at that company being valued at something like half a trillion dollars, between like $300 to $600 billion. That, I don't think, is an unreasonable assumption. If these companies. If these companies are to enter the arena of public stock investors who care a lot more about how sustainable are your financials, does it make sense over the long term, what are your long-term debt obligations, versus where they sit right now, which is a world where people just go, great, Sam Altman's smart, he's a genius, and he's got a crack team of AI engineers. I just think that they are in for a rude awakening as soon as they enter the public markets, which is where I think they're really going to face the music. There is. There is some good news. According to Alpha Space from Yahoo Finance, over the past week, Shopify rose 5%, SAP rose 7%, and Salesforce rose 9%. Basically, the market has said, all right, why buy the picks and shovels when you can buy someone who's already figured out the mind? These companies continue to show resilience. And I've been using Alpha Space to create baskets of stocks, such that you can compare whole sectors. So you can compare stocks to one another, and you know the basket that is underperforming every other basket, Ed? What's up? Scott's Stocks, Ed. Scott's Stocks. Have you used Alpha Space yet, our new partner? Yeah, I have. It's been very helpful. I think the Yahoo Scout, the AI system, is actually pretty helpful, because you can create this watch list of all of the stocks that you want to analyze. So, yeah, you can look at the AI data center stocks. You could create your Scott basket and see how that's doing. I pull up, like, the top 10 or so companies in each sector and create a dashboard. So that allows you to pull up the heat map with all the relative gains and the losses and the charts. It's all in one place, which is, honestly, I mean, they're sponsoring us, but it has been very, very helpful. You know, it's been my homepage for the internet for the last 30 years, not exaggerating. What's up? Yahoo Finance. Bang. I just like to look in the field. Yahoo's finally getting its money's worth. I signed up for this thing. It's not cheap, but I think it's worth it. So I can see just what a fucking shitty investor I am. Thanks, Alpha. Thanks, Alpha Space. No longer the Alpha Dog, according to Alpha Space. No, you're not. We were talking about software stocks. When you look at the revenues of these companies, you wouldn't know AI is out there and supposedly going to just disrupt it all. That's what we said when this all went down, though. Remember, like, in February when the SaaSpocalypse happened, everyone said that those names were done. Like, those were the AI losers. That was a good trade. Exactly. That was a buying opportunity. And the thing that always, the data that always struck me that made me believe the SaaSpocalypse was more like a, I don't know, a SaaS brush fire, if you will, at least in the short term. I understand the notion that the terminal value needs to be discounted because in five years, who knows? But the number that always stuck to me was they spend a maximum of about 20% of their revenues on actual tech, which means 80% of the value add or 80% of their expenditures are building client relationships through UI, customer service, debugging, events. You know, they have insurance. So if something. You want someone to sue if something goes wrong. You know, you want to go to Dreamforce with all your friends. You want a company that is supposedly scared of losing all its market cap so they debug the shit out of it. You like the guy who takes you to the Knicks game, right? Anyways, these companies are appealing, I think, are going to be a lot more resilient than people think. And with respect to your comments around public versus private, we need to do something, and you've been saying this for a while, to try and encourage the number of public companies that have been cut in half in the last 20 years, either through acquisition or companies are just saying private longer. Why? Because why do we want more public companies? Private markets are essentially opinions, and public prices are facts. And the Pulled Data Center, IPOs, Firmus, SB Energy, they were asking public investors to continue to pay their private market vibes. And public investors said no. And essentially, private markets have become where valuation. So let's talk about Anthropic. $16.8 billion in quarterly revenue is roughly a $67 billion annual run rate. That's amazing. But at $2 trillion, that's about 30 times revenue for a company growing roughly 50% a quarter by these figures. And so again, the question is whether this is an amazing company. The technology, in my opinion, for AI is going to outlast the valuations, whether you think valuations are going down or is there going to be a crash. The question is whether public investors will pay a growth multiple when growth is decelerating and the cost to finance that growth is going up. And so the question then becomes, well, are private market investors dumb money? No, they're not. They're actually smarter. They just don't want to be held accountable. The private markets are essentially more opaque, more about vibe, more about a charismatic CEO, more about who the lead investors are. And these guys never get it wrong. So I do think there's something to the notion. I wonder if AI at some point is going to let us tokenize all of this. And you either open via APIs or data streams or permissions to AI that is informed and dictated and the prompt is from the SEC. And you either sign up to be legitimate about this or you get a vastly lower valuation. And I think there's going to be a gray market with. I hate to say it, the blockchain or AI that creates a market in between public and private. It needs to be based on financials. And so long as these companies don't release their financials properly or if the only financials that we get to see are these sort of adjusted bullshit numbers, then it's still going to be completely a murky, opaque gray zone. And I think what you're pointing to is like there is no price discovery in the private markets. Like it's just Sequoia's leading. They chose a number, get involved, get on the train. I talk with these guys, I talk with these venture investors, like a lot of them are like, oh, I'm doing it because this guy's doing it. And if they're doing it, that means that they're legit because Sequoia is the kingmaker. They choose who's going to be next. Like that is genuinely how these companies are being priced today. And people are not being coy about it. Investors know that that is happening. So what you have then is a rigged game where the. Price discovery is near to zero because it's all being controlled by a very small handful of individuals and there is not enough liquidity or liquidity is probably the wrong word here. The float on these companies is so small that you can rig the game as much as you'd like. And the people who are controlling these flows are these whales who can pretty much set terms however they please. And I think a good example of a company that has gamed that system. in the public markets, like the exception to the public markets rule, would be SpaceX, which is, I mean, yes, it got cut in half as we predicted and as we thought, but it has come back up. And I think one of the things that is going on with SpaceX, which I think is honestly bullshit, is the fact that the float is so extraordinarily low, so low that they actually had to make exceptions for including it in the NASDAQ. They had to change the rules because it had such a low float, which essentially means that you're not getting proper price. You don't actually have $2 trillion worth of outstanding shares that are being traded on the open market. You've only got a small fraction of those shares trading, which means, again, that it can be more manipulated and more easily controlled by a smaller handful of players. And so I think that the only way that Anthropic and OpenAI don't have to face the music if they go public is if they do the same move that SpaceX did, which is they go for an extraordinarily small float. And then if they do that, then maybe then they can set a price at an extraordinarily high level and people will be okay with it because you won't have enough liquidity in the system to actually properly price that thing. I think that that's likely to happen. And I think, honestly, like if I was Sam Altman, if I were Dario Amadei, if I was running this IPO, that's probably what I would do. Because I think if you were to flood the market with all of the shares and if you would actually go to the public markets investor, you would be able to do that. and say, "Yes, this is a $2 trillion company." They would say, joke. I mean, I'm not going to price NVIDIA at 10 and price you guys at 30. If you guys have not shown even remotely that this is going to be a sustainable business over the long term, if you're still burning billions of dollars every year and then trying to tell me that there's an adjusted metric that makes that okay, I just don't think that publics are going to be down with that. Yeah, it's so interesting. By the way, I thought yesterday's episode that you did with Kudrowski and Zandi was just so, so good. And Kudrowski pointed out that one of the miracles of the American market is capital formation. Someone did an analysis looking at private tech companies in Brazil, which is a big economy, and very similar companies growing at the same rate, the same revenue run rate, with the same kind of technical infrastructure or offering, trade at one-tenth evaluation of capital. And they did an analysis looking at private tech companies in Brazil, headquartered in San Francisco. And that's because capital formation in the U.S. is just extraordinary. If Anthropic were founded in Europe, it'd be one of the three or four most valuable companies in Europe right now. The ability for a Series B to be 50 or 100 million only happens in one place in the U.S. and typically in one of maybe two or three cities here in the U.S. It's extraordinary. So in China, if they want this sort of capital, they have to go public. The majority, I think, of AI companies beyond a certain revenue level are public in China, and I would argue that's actually healthier. So much healthier. Now, there's a countervailing force in that the SEC isn't as good there, and there's a lot of shenanigans around reporting, but it's still better than this private market hand-waving where you have an S-1. The S-1s on these things are just so weird, and that is they spend 58 pages talking about the risks. And typically, a prospectus says, here's the business, and here are the risks to the business. The open AI and Anthropic prospectuses will be, here's the business, and the risk is the business is so successful, it might kill us all. But give us $2 trillion? This is just so strange, and I'm getting to the point where I wonder if, if a Democrat is elected president, if there is essentially, I mean, I don't know if you saw the espionage case, but essentially, what you have is state-level, kind of defense-level important companies with WeWork-like security. And to their credit, the best product demo for open AI was they used AI to find the perpetrator. And what people don't realize, and I'm getting a bit off script here, but the amount of corporate espionage dwarfs what we think of as real espionage, because here is the war being played out. There's a huge battle, a huge war in Iran, or hopefully it's waning. There's an enormous war in Ukraine as they begin to be the only people standing between us and fascism defending the West. But the war that's ongoing, and it's probably the biggest war, is an economic war between China and the U.S. And IP theft and corporate espionage- We did it in the 19th century. We literally kidnapped artisans and stole manufacturing technology and built factories up and down the eastern seaboard. There is no economic model like IP theft. And so the fact that these companies basically, you know, oh, the snack guys here, if you want to go into CIA headquarters or even the CIA office in Manhattan, the employees of the CIA who've gone through five levels of defense clearances and have to take lie detector polygraph tests every quarter, they're not even allowed to take their phones into the building. But there's going to be an interesting movie or series about corporate espionage. People do not realize how rife it is. And this is just an example of it. Anyways, I thought that was the most interesting story of the week that people haven't been talking about. Yeah, I know. I think it's super interesting. And I think that your point about the economic war between China and the U.S. when it comes to AI is bang on. Like, I feel- As close to certain that your theory of Chinese AI dumping is true, that it is intentional, and that we are seeing the sustainability of these businesses deteriorated by the hand of China, who is subsidizing the shit out of these open-weight AI models, and that it is causing real pain in the U.S. AI trade. But just to bring it back to the markets, again, that is being reflected in stock prices right now. Like, all of that pain that we're seeing, all of the risks, I mean, all it might be too much, but the risks are beginning to be reflected in the valuations of publicly traded AI stocks. That's what we saw this week. They're not being reflected in the valuations of anthropic and open AI. That, to me, is where the dislocation is. That, to me, is where the problem is, because of all of the opacity and all of the manipulation that is so much easier to employ when you remain private. That's why they're going to have so much trouble going out. I mean, I don't actually know if this anthropic IPO is going to happen when they say it will. Apparently, it's going to happen in November. Well, it's already been delayed. Yeah, I don't think it happens this year. Oh, you don't? That's a hot take right now, just FYI. Well, okay, but what's not been priced in, unless they're willing to lower the valuation dramatically, at which point the media will go apeshit saying, I thought it was going to be $2 trillion. But what none of these companies are pricing in or coming out of the closet about is the fact that interest rates have accelerated. Because if you're a core weed, just to use the public, and we know they have $52 billion in debt, when their debt service payments go from 10% to 15%, 5% on 50, that's an additional $200 million a month in interest payments. So what they have not priced in, what the market has not priced in, and what none of these companies want to acknowledge is the cost of their massive CapEx build-out to sustain their growth and business models has gotten extraordinarily more expensive, which increases their borrowing costs, which takes a lot of money. So what's not being priced in, and what none of these companies are pricing in, and what none of these companies are pricing in, and what none of these companies are pricing in, none of them have come out and said, we may have to lower our offering, our valuation on the IPO, because obviously interest costs, we're committed to building out the infrastructure that's expensive and our borrowing costs have gone up. So naturally, the enterprise value and the equity, and none of them are willing to have that adult conversation right now. But I think what happens is they're all stuck on the $2 trillion. So what's not being priced in, and what none of these companies are trying to do is they're all stuck on the $2 trillion. So what's not being priced in, and what none of these companies are GetVCX.com for more info. That's GetVCX.com. Carefully consider the investment material before investing, including objectives, risks, charges, and expenses. This and other information can be found in the fund's prospectus at GetVCX.com. This is a paid sponsorship. Support for the show comes from Xero. It's kind of a foundational idea for this show that it's explain it in clear, simple language that anyone can understand. That is also the idea behind Xero. Xero, spelled with an X, is a simple but powerful platform built for small business owners that makes managing business finances easier from day one. It makes accounting, payments, payroll, and analytics available in one connected platform. Xero also lets you tailor your data for your business's specific needs. 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The dating app has reportedly agreed to a $1.3 billion acquisition by Ithaca Holdings just five years after going public. I think it's a great idea. I think it's a 14 billion dollar valuation. Since then, Bumble has struggled with declining paying users, weaker revenue and growing frustration with dating apps more broadly. At the same time, there are some signs that consumers may be gravitating back toward in-person experiences. Constellation Brands, the owner of Corona and Modelo, recently reported higher profits and revenues fueled by strong beer sales at bars and restaurants. Its wine and spirits business also saw sales increase by 17 percent. So, Scott, we've kind of merged, two stories together here. One is Bumble, which is down 86 percent from its IPO price. If this deal goes through, it seems like it will. $1.3 billion valuation. Dating apps have been kind of taken to the cleaners recently. It's not just Bumble. It's Match Group as well, which is down 80 percent from its peak. And then we were thinking, OK, well, it's kind of interesting that at the same time you see this increase in beer sales in restaurants and in bars, people getting together in person. Maybe the tide is beginning to turn. People might be turning away from living their lives online and swiping. Maybe they're actually getting together in person. More of a anthropological business story. But what do you make of this? So I'm fascinated by this story or stories, I should say. So $14 billion to a $1.3 billion take private with Bumble. So they've lost 90 percent of their value in five years. And essentially, Bumble's not going to be the only company that's going to be able to take that money. It's not going private. It's being rescued from the public markets. And the people taking this private are smart people. They're going to have to totally reconfigure the business model because the business model doesn't work. A business model is supposedly based on trying to lose your customer. Success equals churn. And so they're incentivized to keep you single and swiping. And then as it goes through the constellation earnings, I think this is a good thing. I mean, I got a lot of shit a year ago for going on Bill Maher and saying young people need to drink more. But Gen Z weekly bar going has risen from 26 percent in 2024 to 32 percent. People are getting off the apps and they're going out. And I think that's a wonderful thing. My idea is to lower the drinking age to 18 as long as you're in a group of four people and you can show them an Uber app. I'm serious. I think we've got to get people out and drinking and dancing. Wine and spirit sales are up 17 percent. And I mean, in sum, the swipe is losing to the sip, if you will. Now, having said that, consolation, is this a dead cat bounce? The stock is down 37 percent over five years versus the S&P up 86 percent. Diageo is down 50 percent. It's been cutting cut in half. And only AB InBev is actually up 48 percent. So one good quarter doesn't reverse the secular decline. We're seeing a bounce, not a boom. But the bigger story here is the following. And that is. You know, and I'm like, I'm a hammer. Everything I see is a nail. I do think the biggest risk of AI and the thing that that that is the manifestation of income inequality in our country is loneliness. 15 percent of men report having no close friends up from three percent in 1990. The number of men who say they have no close friends has quintupled since 1990. In 2023, the surgeon general compared the health risk of loneliness to smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day. So you'd you'd rather have friends and smoke a pack a day than not. Have friends in terms of health. Time spent with friends in person has collapsed for young people since the early 2000s. About in about 40 percent of couples met online as of 2017. The number one channel. The question is now whether that's peaked. And people have said, all right, we need to meet in real life because the online dating ecosystem, at least for men, kind of mimics the stock market. And that is the top 10 percent of men are in video and keep getting bidded up. And the bottom nine are a penny stock. That no one wants anything to do with. And Bumble and Constellation are two sides of the same trade. They're digital substitutes for human connection versus the real thing on a very. So let's bring this back to me. I have a three book deal. I try and write a book every 18 months. My next book was supposed to be on mating. And I said, no one wants to hear from a boomer like me who who isn't dating like on dating. I mean, I want to write about policy. Organizing principle around policy in America is goes back to the hominids. And that is the reason that the Cro-Magnon man bested Neanderthals is because of speech and communication skills and coordination. We were slower. We weren't as mean. We weren't as aggressive. We weren't as strong. But the means of communication, the means of cooperation is such that you can establish relationships. And absolutely the most beneficial thing any person can do in their life is to commit to the energy to establish a relationship. And I'm not saying just sexual or romantic relationships. It's a decision to move in with your sister and raise kids together. It's a decision to to to partner with someone and try and start a business and to enter into the relationship not as a transaction but as a commitment to each other. If you look at the homeless problem, I used to think that, oh, it must be veterans. Actually, veterans are only 4 percent of the homeless. HUD and the VFA have done a good job finding houses for veterans. Who the homeless are. The homeless are are are people without others in their lives. They're people that when you don't show up for work, no one notices. They're people that that when they don't hear there's no one there's no one to notice they haven't heard from you. The answer is absolutely, in my view, in each other and social programs, technologies, investments. We need to get people bumping off one another in real life such that they start to form more relationships, friendships, mentorships, parenting, romantic relationships. I absolutely think we should give an enormous tax credit to any place that encourages dancing. I'm a big fan. Be mindful of your addictions. Be mindful. Don't ever drive. Be mindful when someone tells you your substance abuse is out of control. But for God's sakes, get out of the house. The phone and the house are your enemy. And, you know, ask someone out in person. We. Forty five percent of men, 18 to 24, have never asked a woman out in person. So, you know, and the good news for men out there, the bar has never been lower. I don't buy this bullshit that you're taking your professional life in your hands. You approach a woman and you're respectful and she's not interested and you politely excuse yourself. Have a nice evening. You're both going to be fine and you are not putting your career at risk. And the upside is enormous. Loneliness is the pandemic that never got a vaccine. The closest thing we've got is a cold Modelo and the courage to say hello. Where are you from? That is the vaccine here. I wonder if it's because I agree that that's what we should be encouraging. That's the whole ballgame. But I wonder if it's if it's happening naturally. Like, I wonder if the decline of dating apps is maybe a signal that. Young people are saying, OK, enough with this BS, like they're kind of starting to get it. I mean, I don't. want to get my hopes up because I think that the underlying numbers and the underlying trend around loneliness and our screen addictions is still really bad. But I do look at stories like this where it's like, okay, there's like a little glimmer of hope that young people are kind of realizing, okay, this whole live my life on a screen thing is kind of a shitty deal and I'm not actually getting anything out of it. I'm going to delete the dating app. I'm going to delete Hinge. I'm going to delete Bumble. I'm going to delete all of this stuff. And I'm actually going to go outside and spend some time trying to talk to someone. And I don't know, maybe we're reading too much into it to say, oh, maybe the beer sales is a reflection of that. But I don't know. I think it's as close to an indicator that we could get from the markets as possible when it comes to this question of, are people getting together and interacting with each other? I mean, hopefully the beer sales aren't just people buying six packs and bringing it down to their basements and shotgunning while they vape. Hopefully that's not what's going on. Hopefully it's people getting together in person. I guess my question for you, do you think that it's happening naturally? Are the dating apps just disappearing? Because people are saying, we just don't like them anymore. The things that have plagued our society from a health standpoint, whether it's tobacco, whether it's social media, whether opiates, basically as a species and as an economy and as a society, we do figure it out. With tobacco, it took us 30 years. With opiates, it took us 20 years. With social media, it looks like it's going to be 20 years. Social when I'm mobile, in 2013, I think by 2033, we'll have bitch slapped these guys hard enough that they're going to be, they're going to have age gating. They're not going to have character AI. And I think that loneliness is taken about, it's going to take about 20 years. I think it's got another five or seven years to fall before people say, we need more programs focused on young men. We need some form of mandatory national service. We need to put more money in the pockets of all young people. We need to fund afterschool programs. We need to weigh in with mentorship. With big brothers and big sisters, when a child ends up in a single parent home without involvement or as much involvement from their parents. But let me make a totally counterintuitive prediction here. I think if you took a basket of AB InBev, Diageo, and Constellation, I think that basket, the performance of those stocks is going to be inversely correlated to the suicide rate among young people. I love substances. I've gotten more out of alcohol than it's gotten out of me, which is a great Winston Churchill quote. People who consume alcohol and substances manage to integrate it into their life. Never do substances alone, right? I don't do them before 7 p.m. or after 11 p.m. I just don't. My window's there, and that's it. Any drinking after 11 p.m. usually goes nowhere good. Any day drinking is not a very good idea. Drinking alone, smoking pot alone is not a good idea. But for God's sakes, get some friends together, go out, and if you're at a bar, or if you're with friends, have a couple beers, loosen up, have some fun. If you have a problem with alcohol and you're one of those people who, for whatever reason, gets depressed or violent or just strange on alcohol, then it's not for you. But I would bet, I see this as a good thing. When I saw this Constellation and AB InBev numbers, AB InBev has now returned to growth, I felt, I thought, you know, I think this is a good thing. We need absolutely more third places. Forty percent of the bars and the pubs have closed in the U.K. since COVID. Things are so fucking expensive for these guys. I'd love some sort of loyalty card that said, OK, we're going to preload it for certain people, and you can spend it as long as it's spent in a third place. It's defined by a place you don't sleep or work. We have got to get people out bumping up against each other again. And I think the Bumble thing, I know that people are about to talk to people who took it private. I think it needs to move away from the promise of love to the promise of community. And roll up running clubs, roll up athletic leagues, and just say, pay us 20 bucks a month, and we're going to get you out of the house and in the company of strangers. Yes. We're not going to try and sell you on the love of your life or hookup culture. We're going to say, look, you need to be out of the house two or three times, and male mentors need to pay for this if the kid doesn't have it. And you get points the more you go. It can be non-profits. The Bumble Thursday, Sunday, where you take a dog from a shelter out for a walk with someone else, and you're paired randomly with someone. And that's a better date. There is a higher likelihood of romantic connection. Or just a chance to make a friend. But just real connection with someone. The idea of like, okay, we're both going to go into this specifically with the question of, is this person going to be my partner? Are they the right fit? That's already like an awkward, unsexy, lame setup. But if you go into things being like, oh, we just happen to have the same interests here. We're in the same location. Oh, we both are interested in running, or we're interested in rock climbing, or whatever it is. There's so much more capacity for real connection to happen in that situation, which is going to lead to better outcomes. So I'm 100% with you on this community thing. And I think that I agree, it works for friendships. But I also think it can work for actual romantic connection. And they should double down on that. The answer is in each other. If we need a metric that tracks how many times you are in the company of others. Full stop. Full stop. And it works the other way, too. Now that my kids are out of the house, I am absolutely trying to figure out a way to be in the company of other people. Because I find when I come home and there's no one in the house, it is not a good vibe for me. It is not a good vibe for me to be alone at. My mind starts going very weird places. I'm like a Belgian Malinois with no tasks left at home. I'm going to rip the house apart. And I'm going to get angry. And then when I do have other dogs around me, I'm going to get aggressive. Anyways, public policy, economic spending, innovation should all be around one word, others. Agreed. OK, let's take a look at the week ahead. We've got the earnings hub on the screen here from Alpha Space by Yahoo Finance to run through this calendar. We will see earnings from GE, Netflix, Meta, Tesla, Procter & Gamble and Spotify. Earnings season is kind of kicking off here. It's pretty exciting. Scott, do you have any predictions? Yeah, my prediction is pretty, pretty boring. And I made this prediction before. Failed war in Iran. Tariffs that are taxing the shit out of people. An economy. The only bright spot for Donald Trump right now is the stock market. There's literally nothing else he can point to. Gas prices, inflation, corruption, criminality, his son getting parties paid for by Russian oligarchs, shutting off Starlink, deciding that a trillionaire should decide to get to decide battlefield technology and our ability to save the West is now dependent upon a trillion. Who's unelected, who sleeps with a loaded gun next to his bed, who has a ketamine addict. Everything is so awful for this guy. The only sort of silver lining here is the stock market. And I believe between now and the midterms, he's going to announce something that resembles a bailout cosplaying an investment. I think he's going to he may not enact it. He may just threaten it. But the next, quote unquote, I'm going to send you $5,000 is I am going to backstop or come up or figure out something. I'm going to backstop or come up or figure out something. Some way to prop up the hyperscalers. There's going to be some sort of lame attempt from Besant, from Treasury or Donald Trump before the midterms to say, OK, don't worry. Don't worry, hyperscalers. Don't worry, stock market investors. We're making a big investment in this. It's going to be a bailout cosplaying growth. I could see it. He's done it before. My prediction, I think Anthropic and OpenAI are going to have a really tough time entering the public markets as they learn. This is a different type of investor. It's an entirely different group of people. So I think that will probably translate to, and you said it, so I'm agreeing with you, Anthropic delaying their current plan for going public. But generally speaking, I think when they do go public, it'll be a very shaky ride for them. I think they're in for a rude awakening. This episode was produced by Claire Miller and Alison Weiss and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. Our video editor is Jorge. Our research team is Dan Chillon, Kristen O'Donoghue and Mia Silverio. Jake McPherson is our social producer. Drew Burrows is our technical director. And Catherine Dillon is our executive producer. Thank you for listening to Profiteer Markets from Profiteer Media. If you liked what you heard, give us a follow and tune in tomorrow for a fresh take on the markets. If you liked what you heard,