Why the GOVERNMENT Just CONFIRMED an Alien War

An unidentified aircraft goes down and when the recovery team gets there they find bodies and they're small and they're gray and they are quote not human but something else also climbed out of the wreckage. Something that reportedly is over seven feet tall built like a guerrilla and covered in scale. Something again quote not human and according to a former US intelligence officer there are multiple kinds of these non-human creatures that are fighting a war in space. And they are being secretly documented by the US government. This is the story of David Rush. He's an Air Force combat veteran. He held some of the most sensitive clearances in American intelligence. He co-led UFO analysis for a federal spy agency and three years ago. He appeared before Congress under oath and opened up his classified notebook. And then he appeared in multiple public appearances with more to his story and even less of a filter. So how does a guy like that end up describing a war between alien species on the biggest podcast in the world? Is he exposing the biggest secret in human history or is this what happens when a story gets passed down for a person a person until no one can remember where it started? Today we are following David Rush from a classified task force to a congressional hearing room to a crash site that he says he personally never saw. So what is actually happening with this story and who is David Rush? Well, let's find out. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up dude and welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagnon and thank you for joining me in my tent where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating and controversial stories of all time forever and always. Yes, this show is dedicated to understanding and figuring out the mysteries of the world. This is basically Scooby Doo in real life. I'm Shaggy and Fred and Velma because I'm pretty thick. I'll be honest. And we are talking about a fascinating topic. Okay, we're talking about the one and the only David Rush. Now if you don't know who he is, don't worry. I'll give you a whole breakdown. You will be up to speed by the time we're done talking today. But before we jump in, I want to thank you, dude, for real. I want to thank you for tuning in because every time you click or comment or like or interact with our content, you help the show grow and you help keep the fire burning in the campsite and you keep the lights on in the tent. I said that backwards, but you go and I'm saying. I also want to give a big thanks to my pal Christos Takambangalos. How are you my friends? What's going on? I have a question for you. Yes. Do you know who David Rush is? I do. Do you believe in aliens? I do. Do you believe David Rush is testimony or do you think this is some type of multi-level 3D sigh-op going on? I believe to his initial testimony and then you think things have gotten a little, a little far-fetched. I think he's into his own stuff. Interesting. Well, maybe I can convince you one way or the other, okay? He's a fascinating guy. Again, I'm not here to to confirm anyone's beliefs or to deny new ones beliefs. My goal here, just like with every episode is trying to figure out what's going on. Why are people talking about this? And more importantly, why do people believe this theory or other theories? You have people on both sides being like, oh, this is 100% true. Oh, this is a sigh-op. Well, let's just explain why those people exist in those camps, okay? So again, I'm not here to dissuade anyone or to discredit anyone. I never met David Rush. He seems like a nice guy. Who knows what's going on, but maybe by the end of this we'll have a little bit more of an idea. Now before he was known as the UFO whistleblower guy, David Rush was the guy that the US government trusted with many of its secrets. And the origin story to him is a pretty big deal because the reason that anyone is taking his testimony seriously, the reason why Congress is listening to him, the reason that we're doing an episode about him is because David is telling it, right? It's because David Rush is behind it. It's not just the story, right? A lot of people have told stories about non-human biologics and UFOs and all sorts of stuff, but the fact that David Rush is saying it is very important. He's not just a random dude, okay? He was just a guy from Pittsburgh at one point. And then he spent 14 years as an intelligence officer in the US Air Force. We're talking active duty, air national guard, the reserves. He deployed to Afghanistan as a combat officer and then he made it to the rank of major. And then as a reservist, he went to work with the National Reconnaissance Office, aka the NRO. Now if you never heard of the NRO, it is the government agency that builds and runs America's spy satellites. It was created all the way back like Cold War times 1961 and the government didn't even admit that it existed until 1992. So David Rush sat on the briefing staff at the NRO's operations center. This is basically like the team that helped coordinate materials for the president's daily brief. Basically one of the like like the most exclusive like sub-stack on the planet, right? Like those little emails that you get like here's what's going on today. It is the most well-informed and high octane version of like here's what you need to know for today. And then from 2021 to 2023, he worked as a civilian at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. This is the NGA and this is basically with the people who analyzed satellite imagery and maps and his pay grade was GS15. Now to be clear because this part gets talked a lot about online. That's a senior civilian rank that's roughly equivalent to a kernel. It does not mean David Rush was a kernel. It's like you know it's they're not the exact same thing, but this is why people kind of compare them. Now his job there was really interesting. He was the co-lead for analyzing UAP. If you don't know UAP is basically the rebranded term of UFOs. Okay. UAP is the unidentified anomalous phenomena. And so that includes all sorts of things, specifically transmedium objects. So that's a term for things reported to move between environments like flying through the air and then diving straight into the ocean, emerging from the ocean and then flying off into space. Things like that they call them transmedium and they're wild. I mean like we have a couple of them within the US government that they've disclosed, but nothing like what people have reported from these videos. Now the fact that that job exists doesn't necessarily mean that the objects that were describing exist. Okay, but it does mean that someone in the federal government thought that they were worth assigning a senior analyst to. So there's something interesting happening with these objects that are able to fly out of the ocean and into space, into the air, into the ocean, etc. So how does a guy like Rush end up hunting UFOs? Okay. Well for that we have to rewind to December of 2017. This is maybe the most significant UFO announcement report of this millennia so far. I mean until there's like full on disclosure, but the New York Times, one of the most reputable newspapers ever in the world, dropped a story revealing that the Pentagon had been quietly running a UFO research program for many years. And along with it, they released cockpit footage of Navy pilots tracking a bunch of strange objects. You've probably seen the videos. If you haven't, we should put a video on screen right now like the tic tac video is super famous. It's like the smooth white wingless object that a Navy pilot named David Fraver encountered off the coast of Southern California back in 2004. Now if you don't know David Fraver, you should and remember his name because he'll come back in the story in just a second. Now after that, Congress started asking questions and the military started building a formal effort to basically study these sightings. Now Rush says that he started doing UAP work in 2019 for what would eventually become the UAP task force, which the Pentagon officially stood up in August of 2020. And honestly, he says that he didn't go in to this program or this job basically as a believer. He said that he went into it with like a high BS factor that he was basically a skeptic and was kind of open, but generally was like, okay, this is probably military tech or something like that. Like in his first Joe Rogan appearance back in 2024, he even said that he originally took the gig partially because it would look good on a performance report. And then the task force director gave him a special assignment. He said, identify every special access program and controlled access program. So these are saps and caps. And basically identify all of them that the task force needed to do its job. Now here's what that means. Think of like classified intelligence as a building that's completely locked. Okay, there's no way in or out a top secret clearance gets you through the front door, but saps and caps are locked rooms inside the building. It's almost like a like a safe inside this super secure building. So your clearance doesn't automatically open them like you can go into the building, but then there's just a safe that you can't look into. So you have to be personally read into each one by name. Now, Russia's job was essentially to make a list of all those safes inside that building. Now, somewhere along the way, he says that he was told about one safe in particular in his words to Congress. This was a multi decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. What? That's basically what he said. I mean, if you ever seen the like him talking to Congress, it's like crazy. Like this is happening in the US government. He's saying there's a multi decade. This is not just in the last two years. UAP unidentified anomalous phenomena crash retrieval in reversal reverse engineering program. Like they're taking crashes and then trying to build technology from what they found. Like there's a secret effort to collect all this stuff that allegedly wasn't built by humans and then figure out how it works so that we can implement it into our military. Now, naturally, he asked to be read into it. And according to Grush, the answer was no. So where does that leave him? At this point, he's a highly cleared intelligence officer. His literal job is to or explore UFOs within the government. And he's standing outside the one door that literally would confirm all the information and like be a personal disclosure for him. And he can't open it. So he decided to do the next best thing. And he basically tried to find someone that could. Now when most people stumble onto secrets that are this big, they do one of two things. They either keep their mouth shut or they leak it. Now interestingly, David Grush didn't do either of those. At least that's how he tells it. He says that he went through the system. He says that he spent about four years digging, talking to current and former military and intelligence people, some of whom claimed that they'd worked on these programs directly. And he says that they gave him photos and documents and like classified oral testimony base. So it's like telling him stories within a classified setting and keep that in mind because that's going to be important later to kind of untangling this whole web. Now Grush wasn't the guy who saw the craft. He was the guy collecting what other people told him and then showed him. In May of 2022, he filed what's called an urgent concern complaint with the intelligence community inspector general. Basically that's like the internal watchdog for America spy agencies. It's the official channel for employees of these different intelligence arms to report wrongdoing without leaking classified information. It's kind of like an internal system to get stuff adjudicated. And that July the inspector general reportedly found that his complaint was credible and urgent. Now to be clear, that is not the inspector general being like, oh yeah, dude, there's aliens like he found them. We got to do something about this. Credible and urgent is a legal threshold. It means that the complaint that Grush filed was serious enough to send up to Congress's intelligence committees. Nobody so far has officially confirmed the alien part. Okay, I mean outside of Grush's testimony but we'll get to that in a second. Grush also says that once he started reporting what he found, people inside the government started to retaliate against him. He never named who specifically did it, at least publicly, but he did say that there was hostility and retaliation. And then in April of 2023, he left government service. And two months later, the story breaks June 5th, 2023, two journalists, Leslie Keane and Ralph Blumenthal who co-wrote the 2017 New York Times story that really broke up in a lot of the UFO discourse in America. They published an article on a site called The Debrief. And the headline was this, intelligence officials say the US has retrieved craft of non-human origin. And here's an interesting fact about that story's release. Before it ever ran, Grush's claims went through the Pentagon's own pre-publication review. This is basically the office that checks whether former officials are about to tell a bunch of secrets. And according to all the sources, that internal review cleared the information for release, which doesn't mean that the Pentagon agrees with him just that whatever he's saying, it wasn't technically like a top secret, classified secret secret. Does that make sense? And then within a week, Grush was on national TV. He's sitting down with the journalist Ross Coltart on news nation and he says a ton. He said that the government had multiple crafts. He said that they were dead pilots. He said that he'd been briefed on incidents where these non-human beings had harmed or even killed people. And then what came to be maybe the most compelling or strangest claim of this entire saga, Grush said that he'd seen documents indicating that a craft was recovered in Italy in 1933, by none other than Benito Mussolini's fascist government. And then in 1944 or 1945, roughly as the war was ending, he claims that the United States got its hands on it with the Vatican allegedly tipping off the Americans to the existence of this UFO in Italy. So yeah, like basically he's coming out being like Mussolini had a UFO and the Pope got the assist on getting it back. Crazy. What's up guys, we're gonna take a break really quick because I gotta tell you something. I had one of those days recently where I woke up super tired. I drank coffee and then I drank more coffee because I was tired. I trained badly because I had too much coffee and then I couldn't sleep because I had too much coffee. And the frustrating part is I'm doing all the things, I'm lifting, I'm eating protein, I'm taking creatine, I'm trying to sleep, I'm occasionally fasting because someone on YouTube told me it was good, but sometimes I'm still walking around feeling like I'm only charged to like 60%. And that is what got me thinking so seriously about testosterone. Like I think about testosterone a lot because it's the thing that makes me feel amazing and that's why I've been taking Mars men. Here's what I learned, your body can be making testosterone but a portion of it gets bound to a protein called SHBG. It's literally like the testosterone's there but you can't use it, it's in jail. Mars men is designed to help you free up that lock testosterone so your body can better utilize what it's already producing. And what's great about Mars men is there's no needles, no synthetic hormones. 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If you are a camper, you are gonna get 50% off for life plus free shipping and three free gifts when you go to mengo2mars.com. That is mengo2mars.com for 50% off and three free gifts when you check out. And after you purchase, they're gonna ask where you heard about 'em, make sure you tell 'em that Mark and Christos from the campsite sent you. Now let's get back to the show. Now, Grush is not the first one to circulate this story. It's actually kind of like an old legend within UFO circles. According to the legend, this is the story of this one that existed kind of even before Grush was really telling it. There was a craft that came down near the town of magenta in Northern Italy. And Mussolini's set up a secret study group to investigate it. This is the RS-33 cabinet. Supposedly overseen by none other than Gugliamo Marconi, the guy that basically invented the radio. If you ever heard the Marconi Awards, it's named after him. And he's allegedly the guy that oversaw this UFO retrieval incident in 1933. Now, no one has ever proven that the documents behind this legend are 100% real. That's a whole rabbit hole of its own, regardless. The Pentagon hears all this. And then they respond super quickly. A spokesperson said that its UFO office hadn't found any verifiable information that a program to possess or reverse engineer extraterrestrial materials had ever existed. Okay, that's what the spokesperson says. But notice something about the way Grush talks. Because the same week in an interview with a French newspaper, he was careful not to say alien. He never really says alien. He just says that the craft could be extraterrestrial or something else. He just says not human. And that word non-human is going to follow us through the entire story and is really important for understanding the context of all this. But just to sum up thus far, okay? You have a former intelligence officer on national TV talking about dead, non-human pilots and Mussolini getting a flying saucer that the Pope helped uncover. So for most people, this is where like the story ends, okay? Like a lot of people, if they're not interested or a believer in this topic, they just kind of like check out. But then seven weeks later, David Grush walked into a room on Capitol Hill where lying is a federal crime, keep in mind. And he raised his right hand and he swore to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So now David Grush is sitting before Congress, okay? And this is, these are some of the sound bites that come out of it, okay? A dark gray cube sitting inside a clear sphere shooting between two fighter jets, close enough that the pilots had to abort their training mission. Now this is not like a crazy story that, you know, some guy tells you at like a festival somewhere. Like this is not like your older brother's cousin telling you this thing, like, dude, I saw this gray cube in a sphere. The hearing was held by a House Oversight subcommittee and it had a title that only Congress could write. It's super long. It's basically the unidentified anomalous phenomena, I can't even say it. Let's see, look what Congress does. It even makes my mouth not work. Unidentified anomalous phenomena, implications on national security, public safety and government transparency. So long title, basically it's yo bro, do aliens exist? Hearing, that's what they should have called it. Basically three men sat at the witness table and all three are sworn in. Now the cube story originates from Ryan Graves. This is another very important person in this whole saga. He's a former Navy fighter pilot whose squadron says that it saw strange objects off the East Coast, basically almost every day for years. And then of course, there's David Fraver. This is the pilot that saw the Tic Tac. And he described exactly what he saw with his own eyes back in 2004. And then of course, David Grush. Now it's important to separate these three, okay? Because Graves and Fraver are talking about their own experiences, about things that they saw. They're not even really making the claim like, oh, it's definitely, they're just saying, I saw something weird and this is what it is. Now Grush was talking about programs that he said existed and recovery. that he said had happened based on what other people told him. Now to his credit, he was very upfront about that. Like in his opening statement, he tells Congress, "I am speaking to the facts as I have been told them." Which I kind of like how he says, it almost sounds like the beginning of like a book of the Bible, you know, like I am reporting as I have been told. And that's what he does. Now the questions then start flying, of course, okay? And I see Congressman Tim Berchett basically asked Grush flat out whether to do this government possesses UAP. And then Grush says absolutely based on interviewing more than 40 witnesses over four years. And then Berchett asked about pilots. He asked, "Do we have the bodies?" And then Grush said this word specifically, biologics. He says biologics came with some of these recoveries. So now that's, what does that mean? One human is what he said. He said that the assessment of the people with direct knowledge of the program claimed that they were non-human biologics. Now to be clear, he did not say that he had seen bodies. He did not say that he examined anything. And notice that word again, non-human. Not explicitly extraterrestrial, just non-human biologics. And then South Carolina, Congresswoman Nancy Mace took the questioning a little darker. She asked if Grush or anyone that he knew had been harmed because of all of this. And then he said yes, personally. And then she asked if he had knowledge of people who had been murdered to cover it up. And Grush kind of paused. And he said that he had to be careful when answering that question, and that he directed people with knowledge to the appropriate authorities. So not a yes, not a no. And that's basically how the whole hearing went. Every time lawmakers pushed for specifics like where are the craft, who's running the program, which contractors are involved in the reverse engineering, Grush said the same thing that he couldn't answer in an open session. He'd only say in a skiff, this is a secure room for classified conversations. So the hearing ended in the most frustrating way possible, okay? You have a man with a ton of information under oath saying that the evidence is real, but that the American public or Congress is not allowed to see it. But by this point, Washington was already moving. So two weeks before the hearing, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senator Mike Browns, a Democrat and a Republican had introduced the UAP disclosure act of 2023. And this act was pretty aggressive. It would have created a nine member, presidentially appointed review board to declassify UFO records. It would have let the government seize any recover technology held by private companies, basically through imminent domain. And to put the phrase non human intelligence into proposed federal law. So think about that. The Senate Majority Leader, the most powerful person in the Senate, co-wrote a bill that legally defined what counts as non human intelligence. But by the time it passed, tucked inside the 2024 defense budget, it had been gutted. In negotiations with the House, the review board got cut and the imminent domain language kind of got thrown out. So it ended up coming out of that with something a lot smaller, a requirement for agencies to find their UAP records and then send them to the national archives. And that is a real thing. The archives now has an official UFO collection, record group 615, and it keeps adding documents as they come in. So to sum up, kind of where we are, by the end of 2023, Congress has a sworn witness, a new disclosure law and senators discussing non human intelligence. It genuinely feels like at this point, the dam is about to break, like everything's about to come out. And while all of that is happening, the Pentagon had been quietly running its own private investigation. They were interviewing witnesses and digging through archives and actually opening these locked safes. And a few months later, they published what they found. So the Pentagon goes looking for the secret program and they found one. It had a code name. It had paperwork and it talked about recovering non human biologics and it never existed. How does that make sense? We'll get to that in a second. But first, let's just back up. Okay. March, 2024. The official UFO office, the all-domain anomaly resolution office, aka Aero, released the first volume of its historical record report. Congress had ordered it back in 2022 before Grush ever went public or was known to the public. Basically to review the government's entire history with UFOs all the way back to 1945. But by the time it came out, everybody read it the same way as the Pentagon's answer to David Grush and his testimony. Now Aero says that a dug through classified and unclassified archives interviewed about 30 people and checked with the officials who oversee special access programs. Remember those special access programs, those those saps as they call them. That's like the locked safe inside the highly secure building. Okay. These are the things that Grush couldn't actually get read into. And the conclusions were really interesting. One, no government investigation, academic study or official review panel had ever confirmed that a UFO sighting was alien technology. Two, and this one was aimed right at Grush. Aero found no empirical evidence that the US government or any private company had ever reverse engineered extraterrestrial technology. So how do we square these two things? Okay. David Grush is saying one thing under oath in front of Congress. And then all of a sudden we get Aero coming out saying the exact opposite. So where do the stories come from? And Aero's answer is really, really interesting. It says some of the people it interviewed had seen real secret programs. So advanced aircraft, classified surveillance projects and mistakenly connected them to aliens. Now they basically say that a fairly small, consistent group of believers kept telling each other the same stories over and over and tell the repetition started to feel like confirmation. And Aero basically called it circular reporting, basically like a game of telephone, okay? And Aero had a perfect example of this, a program called Kona Blue. Now some of Aero's witnesses described Kona Blue as a secret compartment inside the Department of Homeland Security set up to protect the retrieval and exploitation of non human biologics. Sounds familiar, right? So Aero goes digging and here's what it found. On 2009 to 2012, the Defense Intelligence Agency funded a UFO research program called ASAP. And it was run largely through a company owned by the billionaire Robert Bigelow. And yes, part of that work happened at the infamous Skinwalker Ranch in Utah. Now the DIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency, eventually shut it down, citing a lack of merit. So some of the people involved tried to bring it back in a different place under a new name and that new name was Kona Blue. Now according to the declassified documents, the pitch was very big. They wanted to restart the UFO investigations, research human consciousness anomalies and reverse engineer any off world spacecraft that they hoped to acquire. And then in 2011, a DHS undersecretary actually approved it as a prospective special access program, but according to all this investigation from the Aero side, that's as far as they got. So according to Aero, Kona Blue was never formally established. It never actually got funding and it never received a single piece of actual material. The report says the alien material was only even assumed to exist by the people pushing for the program. Now that is the entire skeptic argument summarized into one story, okay, that you have a real program with a dramatic codename that really did talk about non-human biologics and it only ever existed as like a pitch by people that already kind of believed in UFOs and aliens in general. Right? Like that's basically what, you know, the Pentagon says, does that make sense? They're basically saying like, hey, like people talked about this as like an idea and then it got like labeled, but there's nothing actually in the folder, you know, they made a folder being like alien material goes here, but then never actually put anything in it. And then they're saying that David Grush here stories people are talking about like, oh, that folder has all sorts of alien stuff in it, but then he never gets to see inside the folder, so then he now creates a story wrong, the under secretary under the bus coming in three to exactly one, they're basically, yeah, they're basically saying that this was just a big game of telephone gone awry now, I know what you're thinking, of course, the Pentagon says the Pentagon isn't hiding anything, right? Like you're definitely not alone, okay? And there's actually many people that have said the exact same thing, specifically in high places, Congressman Tim Berchette slammed the report the day that it came out and researchers found errors in some of the historical details and critics pointed out that, you know, there's a very obvious problem here, like, hey, the Department of Defense is basically, they did like an internal review and found no misconduct, you know, like that meme, like, yeah, the police checked if the police did something bad and turns out the police are great, like that's basically what they're saying they did, like, yeah, of course the Pentagon's going to look in their own stuff and be like, yeah, we're not hiding anything, turns out we're good. Even arrow admits that it's conclusions could change if new verifiable information comes up and it promised a volume to covering everything that learned after October 2023. So depending on who you ask about this, the report is either, hey, this is the final word, there's big miscommunication, telephone, yada, yada, yada, this whole thing is being overblown or it's a cover up. But either way, the momentum kind of was gone. The hearing didn't produce like a craft, the law kind of got watered down and the the Pentagon put it in writing like, "Hey, there's nothing here, okay?" Hey guys, we're gonna take a break really quick 'cause I wanna give a quick shout out to one of our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Mod. Mod prescribes a once or twice daily Medaphineil drink that can keep you energized, focused, and alert throughout the entire day and here's how it works. Energy drinks with caffeine temporarily block adenosine. This is the chemical that makes you feel tired and it builds up and when the caffeine wears off, you get that crash. But Medaphineil works differently. It engages multiple pathways in your brain, including dopamine, norepinephrine, histamine, andorexin to achieve steady energy and alertness for 10 to 12 hours. Medaphineil was invented in the 1970s and since then it's been used by some of the highest performers on and off the planet. Yeah, soldiers, pilots, and even astronauts aboard the International Space Station have used Medaphineil in high-stakes situations where concentration and alertness literally could cost you your life. And now it's available through mod.com to qualifying patients. Visit mod.com that is mod.com for a free consultation and get 10% off your first order plus free shipping with the promo code Gagnon. That is the promo code [email protected]. See their website for important safety information and we thank mod for sponsoring the pod. Now let's get back to it. - So you would expect, like, all right, case closed. We'll move on, except, Grush wasn't done. Because two and a half years later, he sat down in front of the biggest microphone on the planet and started saying things that he never sat under oath, all right? So that takes us to September 30th, just to, I mean, like a month now. This is 2026. Grush sat down for his second appearance with none other than Joe Rogan. And they chatted for two and a half hours. And at one point, he basically stopped and said, even for him, like an ex deep state and tell officer that he couldn't believe that he was talking about this on this kind of, like, platform. And he admitted that, quote, he sounded skitzo, which kind of funny. So like an intelligence officer would be, like, telling all the stuff. He knows and be like, dude, I sound kind of crazy right now. Which, I know, honestly, fair, right? Because for years, David Grush has been extremely careful and he uses all the right words and goes through all the correct legal processes. And always, up until this point, very much did everything in a very sort of structured, systematic way. But now, since going on the episode with Joe Rogan, the filter was kind of off. So of course, you know, Rogan's asking about grays, which is like, you know, if you don't know, the classic alien, like big eyes, small body, the face on like every UFO t-shirt ever. And Grush says like, yeah, those are real. And then he started listing the craft that he says are in the government files, tick tacks, eggs, disks, boot heels, things shaped like sunfish, boomerangs, crescents. Now, to be clear, that's his list. It's not a verified inventory from the government, but the picture that it paints isn't one visitor. It's like a parking lot of a bunch of different types of things coming in and out of our planet. And then he describes something that he says that he saw himself, not something that he heard about, not something that he was briefed on, something that he saw. Grush tells Joe Rogan that he watched video footage from a recovery operation. He wouldn't say where or when only that it was something recent. Now, in the footage, he says that there's a crescent shaped craft and up to four dead occupants. Now, this is a crazy part. He says that they didn't look like grays. They looked human, pale, almost bluish white, and unusually strikingly beautiful. And when Rogan compared them to like Greek gods, Grush said that's how he'd described it. So just picture that, okay? This guy coming from as high level of like government intelligence you can count to be, is now on one of the biggest shows in the world saying that he saw a video of a crashed, crescent shaped aircraft somewhere on Earth and lying around it were bodies that look like they were carved almost like out of marble by some Greek sculptor. Grush says that he believes he corroborated that video. But up until now, it's never been released. Nobody outside his circle has authenticated it and we don't know where it was filmed or when or by whom or what the purpose of it was. But Rogan asks if it would ever come out, Grush said probably there's a lot of audio visual stuff. And then he predicted major disclosure before President Trump leaves office. Now notice what's changed to this point, okay? Back in 2023, like Grush's biggest claim was like from other people. He was like, look, I'm reporting what I was told, okay? I got, you know, maybe shown a document and I'm reporting what the documents said or what a story someone else that no stuff told me. But this time, he's saying that he watched the bodies himself on video. And it's a real shift in his narrative and really kind of the way he's conducted himself around the topic of disclosure. It's still not evidence that your eye can check but it is a different type of claim, okay? So just to catch everyone up, according to Grush, Grays are real. The government has a whole fleet of different craft or at least is aware of all these different crafts. And somewhere out there is a video of dead, non-human beings that could be described as Greek gods. So if the episode had ended there, it would have been one of the most bizarre and interesting UFO interviews of the year, but it didn't because Joe, God bless Joe Rogan. He has one more amazing question. And this is the one that set the internet on fire. This is the first thing that I saw in X when I woke up that day. There's the thing that I hear all the time from like UFO skeptics. And I've even asked the same questions, right? Like if you have these crafts that can go faster than a fighter jet, they can fly into the ocean, they fly out of the ocean, they go into space, they can stop and hover, they make no sound, they can travel the speed of light and they're allegedly coming from far off galaxies that we can't even see. Why do they make it all the way to earth and then crash? Like how does that make any sense? Grush has been talking about crash retrievals for a couple of years now. And on Rogan, he finally offered an answer at least for some of them. He says that some of them didn't crash, that they were brought down. So when Rogan asked about it, Grush reportedly said, we've documented that what we perceive as warfare, it looks like conflict and smells like conflict. What? He called some of these crashes NHI versus NHI, non-human intelligence versus non-human intelligence. He claimed that there are records of different groups interfering with each other. But listen to the exact words. He says what we perceive as warfare. So again, it's an interpretation. He's saying that the evidence as he understands it looks like a fight. And then he tells a story. Remember the crash site from the very beginning of the episode? Well, this is where it comes from. A craft goes down, a tic-tac-shaped aircraft. And yes, that's the same exact shape that David Fravers saw back in 2004 from some of the video footage that was released in the New York Times article. But to be very clear, see, this is the video right here. Thank you, Grush. Now you can't really see it on the video, but it's moving at insane speeds, the fighter jets are scrambling to keep up with it. And then they're not able to. And they're just like, yeah, this thing was flying super close to the water, goes up in a space. Unlike any type of technology the US government has according to very established military pilots. Now, Grush is not saying that it was David Fravers tic-tac. Okay, David Fravers never reported anything about occupants. That is a, you know, likely a different event entirely. But according to Grush, this craft was tied to reptilian-looking beings. And when the recovery team got there, they found dead grays. So why would dead grays be at the crash of a reptilian craft? Well, Rogan put it this way. He asked if the grays and the reptilians were quote, duken it out. And then Grush reportedly said, I guess I know the people who were there. That's it. That is the foundation of the alien war. It's, you know, not like a documentary, like a video that we can see, but it is this fascinating story from a high-ranking former intelligence officer. Rogan supplies like the dramatic version, right? Grush says, I guess, and then he tells you how he knows that, you know, there were people that were there that saw it and they told me. But the story doesn't stop at the bodies. Because according to Grush, not everything on the craft was dead. He says that some of the reptilian beings survived the crash. And he described them as more than seven feet tall. They're built like just like beasts, just like, he says almost like gorilla-like, covered in scales. And then the recovery turned violent. Grush says American personnel were actually hurt in this encounter. And at least one of them was killed. Remember back in 2023 when he said that he'd been briefed on non-human beings like harming humans? This perhaps is what he was referring to. Rogan asked what happened to the survivors. They were killed, Grush said, shot, yes. Why? They posed a threat. And then almost as like on a side, he said something that might be the most unsettling line of the entire interview. They were killed so they're mortal. Think about what that does to the story, okay? These aren't gods. These aren't like demons in the way you would traditionally think about demons. They're not like these invincible movie monsters that just like keep on coming that just never stop. They're not zombies, okay? They bleed and they die. Now remember, Grush didn't see this with his own eyeballs, okay? He was explicit about saying that like when he was talking to Joe, like he never personally saw these reptilian beings. This is an account that came from a colleague. He says that he knows people that were there. he predicted that some of them will eventually come forward and like bring their stories to the public. But as far as, you know, we sit here now, what we can verify, there's no site, there's no date, no military unit, no names of the Americans that were killed, no medical records, no autopsy, and no photo that we can see. So if you're on like X or Twitter, whatever you call it, and you see like a headline that says like US troops shoot seven-foot reptilians, here's what you're actually reading, okay. David Grush tells Joe Rogan what a colleague told him about something that happened at a place and a time that we can't verify. Now again, that doesn't make it false. It just means that this is a chain of information and every single link in that chain is sort of invisible to your eye and is also a potential point of failure as far as some of the details. So just to sum it up, you have this potential alien war or at least something that looks like hostility and a crash site and dead graze and living reptilians and American soldiers dying and all of it is shared second hand from a very high ranking former intelligence source. And somehow it's still not the darkest thing that David Grush said that day because before the conversation was over, he'd take Rogan somewhere even deeper to the bottom of the ocean inside a federal agency and even back thousands of years. So how do we even unpack this part? Okay. Somewhere under the ocean, there's something the size of like multiple city blocks. Craft can go in and craft come out. And according to David Grush, people in the US government know that it's there. Now let me try to break this down. Okay. There are multiple elements to this. And again, I'm not saying that it is factual or non-factual. I'm just laying out why people are coming to this conclusion. So first thing is the ocean. Okay. Grush tells Rogan that there's some type of base of operations underwater. And he says that it's big. No one knows when it got there and it's multiple city blocks type of stuff. Like that's the way he describes it. And then he kind of gets a little apprehensive. He said that he had to be careful because it gets into sensitive Navy underwater matters. And he's not the only one saying this. Tim Barchett, the same congressman who slammed like the arrow report that said like, yeah, we don't have anything secret. He said that naval personnel tell him about underwater craft moving hundreds of miles an hour, which brings us right back to that word from, you know, David Grush's old job title, that trans medium idea because there's no named location, no imagery, nothing that we can actually check. But he is describing basically these craft that can go underwater. They're using that as like a docking site and they're able to come out of the water and then fly around. The other term that people use for this is like USOs like unidentified submerged objects. That is what the essence for right? The USO is like a military show. Yeah, that I know that that is technically true. That they actually used to do is that the comic club used to work out back in the day. Military shows. They would do a USO like benefit shows. Is that right unidentified submerged object? Unidentified submerged object. Same thing. Yep. So the second thing here is the money. Grush says that while he was investigating, he ran into what he called a criminal enterprise, run out of a particular federal agency. He says, he's basically says they're making money through in his words the most unspeakable type of criminal endeavors, basically hidden under the cover of like some national security program. And the point of all of that money is to pay for crash retrieval operations off the books. Now, according to published summaries of this episode, the crimes that he described included drugs muggling and human trafficking and including children like literally the most awful stuff you could ever imagine. And he says that he reported all of this to the Department of Justice and it led to a federal investigation that he can't talk about now to be clear. He hasn't named the agency. No charges have ever been publicly tied to these claims. And there's no public record connecting any investigation to UFO programs. But it is an incredibly serious accusation that is like pretty wild, right? Like, hey, there's like the worst crimes imaginable being done. It basically like almost ties like an Epstein-esque like trafficking ring into like the UFO conversation, which is just like what? Like you're saying that there's a cut out within a federal agency that is doing the worst crimes ever to society and to people in the world to basically get money to then pay for these retrievals. And it sounds crazy. But Grush compared it to the Iran Contra affair. But this is basically a secret operation in the 1980s. There's like a big scandal where officials within the Reagan administrations secretly sold weapons to Iran and then funneled all the profits from that weapons deal to rebel fighters in Nicaragua completely outside of any type of congressional oversight. Okay. And that's like a real story. It's like a real documented thing you can go look it up. And then a few years later, a Senate subcommittee found that some of the people in the Contra supply network had ties to drug trafficking. So the idea of some type of like secret operation paying for itself with dirty money, it's not that crazy, right? Like it happened before like documented. And it's probably to be honest like happening now, right? Like again, I don't want to bring Epstein into everything. But there's a part of it where it's like, okay, like the people have said that Epstein belongs to intelligence. So is it possible that he's being used as an asset to like funnel money into these like black budget things where people don't really track where the money's going and then you're able to operate without some type of government oversight? Again, we don't know. Now, whether it happened here specifically with the UFO stuff is a different question. Now, the third important thing that Grush brings up is the mind. Okay. Grush also said that some people involved in recoveries reported telepathic contact or like this overwhelming feeling of peace when they got close to these beings. And he floated the idea that it could be something type of like defense mechanism, some type of like consciousness based countermeasure thing. Now put that next to the reptilian story. One kind of being like calms you down. People reportedly reported to feel like very calm. And then the other is like very hostile and allegedly kills a soldier. So if you take Grush's word, these are not the same kind of visitor. And of course, like a strange feeling near a strange object doesn't tell you like where the feeling came from or what the object is. And NASA's own UFO study pointed out personal experiences, no matter how vivid usually can't be like tested or reproduced, but it is worth noting that a lot of the people that I've talked to that have had like reported, you know, UFO or like alien encounters, almost all of them describe a telepathic contact. Like basically like without fail. They're like, yeah, I spoke to these beings, but it wasn't with my mouth. It was with my brain. And then some percentage of them describe feeling like euphoria. They describe like feeling like super excited. They feel a piece. They feel really good after the experience, which is really interesting. Now there is a fourth component to what Grush was saying that is really important to highlight. And that is the gods. Remember the Greek gods in the crescent crescent footage thing that he describes like Rogan says like just he kind of compares them to Greek gods and Grush is like, yeah, basically that's how I describe them. That was about how they looked. But then the conversation drifted into a bigger question. Did ancient people encounter these beings and did they record them as gods? One example that reportedly came up was the Hawara labyrinth in Egypt. And this one has a genuinely amazing history. We've done multiple episodes on Hawara now over on history camp, but I'm not going to explain the whole thing, but here's just kind of the overview that you need to know. In 450 BC, a Greek historian named Herodotus visited a massive temple complex at Hawara in Egypt. And he wrote that it was more impressive than the pyramids, 3,000 rooms, half of them above ground, and then half of them below ground. And he claims that you know, in his, you know, historical record that he toured the top half. Then the underground half, he wasn't allowed in. And the ancient priests of Egypt basically told him that it held the tombs of kings and specifically sacred crocodiles. Like, I'm pretty sure the city of Hawara was even named Crocodilopolis by the Greeks later because it had so much connection to like crocodile worship. And there are claims that there is a 40 meter metallic object down there below the labyrinth at Hawara. Again, I did multiple episodes on this. You should absolutely check it out. The labyrinth is real. Herodotus is like testimony about this place is real. The radar survey showing this bizarre object is real. Now, the giant metal object part, that is just a claim. But again, this is where it all comes from. Now, people talk about ancient aliens all the time. And this is kind of where the theory like really comes from. It's like, hey, let's look at ancient cultures and their stories of the gods. And what if these actually aren't like metaphors? What if they're not actually stories with gods? What if it's them talking with extraterrestrials that they interpret as gods? Because of course, you know, if you're living in Egypt and the year like 500 BC and an alien comes down, you're going to be like, oh, you're God. Now, archaeologists warn that what an image looks like to us in the modern day can be very different from what people back then would have seen it as. For example, Ezekiel's flaming wheel covered in eyes to the people who first read it. That was a vision of God's throne. Calling it a spaceship is a modern interpretation. But regardless, just a sum up so far, okay? You have claims of an alien war, an underwater base, a criminal network is funding the whole thing, a network that is involved in like the most nefarious and insidious crimes that human beings are able to muster. And there are beings that might reach into your mind to be able to talk with you telepathically and also like make you feel really euphoric. And these beautiful creatures that look like ancient Greek God's and every single piece of it comes from one man and what he says that he has been told and what he's heard and some of it that he's actually seen on video himself, which leaves us with the only question that actually matters. How do we know if David Grush is telling the truth? How can we actually like verify his testimony? Well, in 1961, the United States created an intelligence agency that was so secret that it didn't even admit that it existed for the next 31 years and David Grush worked there. So before we just laugh at his claims and move on, we got to be fair to him and really assess his credentials. Governments do keep massive secrets. The NRO was one of them, the Iran Contra affair that actually happened and it was a whole scandal. MK Ultra, I mean, the CIA's mind control experiments, those happened, whistleblowers get dismissed all the time, right up until the moment that they're proven right. And since 2023, Grush has not been the only former official telling Congress about secret UFO programs. Even Arrow admits that it hasn't explained every case. So the problem isn't that Grush's story is that is impossible. The problem is like the evidence that it's built on. If you sort everything that we've talked about today into three buckets, it makes it a little easier to understand, okay? So the first bucket is like documented. So Grush's career is documented. His complaint documented his testimony under oath, all of that, disclosure law, the National Archives collection, the Kona Blue thing as a proposal. All of that is documented and it's all completely real. Then the second bucket is a firsthand account, okay? The documents and the photos that he says that he was shown, the crescent craft footage that he says that he watched and then, you know, the bodies that he reportedly saw on video. That's Grush speaking as a direct witness to evidence that no one else can see. And then you can even put in like Ryan Graves and like David Fravers account as like first hand account, but we also get some video footage that goes along with their accounts, which kind of puts it more into like documented bucket one. And then you have bucket three. This is second hand, okay? And this is where like the most explosive kind of claims are. This is non-human biologics. This is reptilians, the dead grays, the shootouts, the American casualties. All of it comes from people that Grush says were there, yet none of them have come forward publicly to tell it themselves yet. Now Aero makes a distinction that I think is worth kind of looking at. A person can be completely sincere and still be incorrect. That would basically be Aero's perspective, okay? Not lying, just misunderstanding what they heard or misunderstanding what they saw or repeating something that kind of got like misshapen or kind of interpolated every time that it was shared, right? Like the cone of blue thing that Aero points out would be an example that they claim that this is a program built around material that was only ever assumed to have existed passed around by people who all kind of believed each other, all right? That's the skeptics fear that Grush's network is circulating the same way. A lot of honest people speaking in good faith, repeating each other's stories until the echo starts to sound like some type of hard confirmation. But the believer's answer is just as simple, right? That's exactly what a cover-up would look like from the outside. And of course, the evidence is locked away and that's kind of the whole point why we can't get like a hard confirmation because if we did have confirmation, that would just be disclosure. And that's why the public, I think the arguments on both sides are like kind of frivolous because you can't really prove it one way or the other, which I guess, you know, that's kind of the real question is like, the question isn't like, do you believe him? Maybe instead it should be, what would it take for you to believe? Grush says that confirmation is coming, but until it does, the alien war exists specifically in one place in the space between what David Grush was told and what the rest of us are allowed to see. And I mean, let me just also throw another kind of wrench in here. There is the possibility that some of this stuff is potentially shown or told to David Grush on purpose and that that is a part of the side up that people have floated this idea again. I'm not claiming this, but this is just what other people have said just to give you like the full context of ways to interpret this. It is possible that David Grush has a good faith, honest human being trying to do the right thing is being used as a tool within a siop that people are telling him information, acting very earnest and sincere. And then he goes and shares it with Congress, he goes and shares it on big platforms. And then it circulates all throughout, you know, the world and it's being used for some reason, either to cover up advanced technology that the US government has basically saying like, hey, it's not us, it's aliens, like whatever, or they're trying to in some way create some type of show that, you know, aliens are imminent or that UFOs are already here that we need to unify and maybe bring in some type of, you know, harsher military action or justify like putting weapons in space, whatever it may be, there might be some justification for getting the public really invested in this UFO theory right now. I'm just floating all the potential options. So where does that leave us, right? The ancient Greeks, all the way back in the day, they would tell stories about a war in the sky amongst the gods. And it's not just the Greeks, basically every ancient culture said this before Zeus ruled Olympus, you know, the gods fought the Titans for 10 years and in old poems, the earth was groaning and the sea would boil and down below human beings just watched, like the fate of the universe being decided over their heads by these beings that are stronger and more advanced and more intelligent than we are. And every age tells a version of that story. Of gods and Titans or angels and demons. And now we have former intelligence officials telling us that perhaps it's craze and reptilians. But Grush's version has a twist that the old myths never really had. And Grush's story, these beings that are in the sky, they can die. They can crash and they can bleed and a scared soldier with a rifle can kill one. And somewhere he says there's a video of them lying perfectly still. So again, where does that leave us? Maybe the ancient Greeks weren't wrong. Maybe they were just early. Maybe they weren't describing, you know, divine warfare. Maybe they were describing some type of, you know, non-human intelligence that were just now trying to wrap our heads around. Maybe the war in the sky never stopped. Maybe it's been going on the entire time over our heads at the bottom of the ocean all around us and every generation just has a glimpse of it and they give it a new name. And today we just call it unidentified. The main difference being that the Greeks only had, you know, their eyes and like scribes to write it down. But today we got satellites and sonar and targeting cameras on fighter jets. And for the first time in human history, we're not just looking up and wondering. We're starting to actually see it and being able to record it and actually release it. And maybe after thousands of years, whatever's up there is starting to notice that we're actually looking back. And that ladies and gentlemen is a brief summary of the life and career and claims of David Grush, specifically the ones that he just shared recently on the Joe Rogan experience. Maybe a little more than a month ago. It's pretty fascinating. I don't know what to make of it. Again, I don't really get the sense that David Grush is lying. I think it would be improper to call him a liar. I know the people have a lot of distrust for the government and for intelligence officers. I get that. But is it possible that the arrow thing is like partially true? People are like misinterpreting information like again, we assume that like high ranking intelligence officers are like never wrong that like they know every secret, but like they're human like all of us and they could share a story that gets told and retold and kind of exaggerated and details get missed and things like that. Like yeah, it's possible, right? Again, I'm not saying all of it is that. It's also possible that there's like some type of coordinated effort to like pass information to certain people so that they share it that serves some type of agenda for the government. That's what it is. Yankee Blue. June 2025 Wall Street Journal reported that the Pentagon's all domain anomaly resolution office that's arrow led by Sean Kirkpatrick discovered that for decades, personnel and classified Air Force units have been shown images of flying saucers and told that they were from top secret alien technology recovery program called Yankee Blue. And basically they surmised that it was like a fake Air Force UFO program that was purported to involve reverse engineering and it was a part of a elaborate hazing and misinformation campaign. So is it possible that this is like a part of the same thing like this is a part of a misinformation campaign. Again, I don't know. I also, at the same time, I do think Russia is probably a really smart guy and he worked with the US intelligence for many years and like knows his way around like millet like he knows what he's looking at. He's looking at a video being like, okay, I'm seeing what I'm seeing like could he be able to know if it's AI or some type of like misinformation campaign. I would assume he understands how siops work. I don't think he's completely naive to the fact. So I don't know. It seems I just get a little skeptical and like I get a little skeptical when it comes to like government agencies being telling us what to think, you know, like that. That's why I think like Bob Lazar and his testimony holds like a little bit more weight for me because again, he's just like, dude, I worked in it and like had a lot of information that eventually kind of got like proven or like corroborated in some way. Again, there's some holes with his theory as well or his story. But I don't know. I, in terms of like, do I believe David Grush is lying now? I don't think he's lying. So I think that it's possible he's being fed information that's used as a campaign. I think there's like 25% chance. Do I think that David Grush's potentially like misinterpreting other people's stories and like kind of reinterpreting them and then retelling them like a more exaggerated way, kind of like the arrow explanation? 30% chance? I don't know. It's so hard. Creaseless, what do you think? I just think this non-human intelligence, NHI versus NHI stuff is awesome. It's awesome, dude. It's literally Star Wars. How do you tell though that they were going at each other? Again, he's just like, it seemed like it was hostile from the diagnostics of the phase guys soldier, right? He's been a warfare just you know when like people are playing around and when they're actually fighting. Yeah, you know that the line when like two dudes are like play fighting, then it turns into real fighting? Yeah. You know like kind of immediately like, oh, this got serious. Like at this moment, he's like when it went from like goofing around to like fighting. Well, I guess you could tell mechanical failure from an attack on a ship or yeah, yeah. Assuming, right? I don't know. I'm just a little skeptical. I keep a healthy skepticism. Or again, are there aliens out there, probably? Are they coming to Earth? Maybe. Is David Grush, did he see actual video footage? I'm like, if anyone saw, it's probably him. But I don't know. I'm gonna kind of reserve myself until more information comes out. I'm like a little skeptical. My gut is telling me like, again, I don't think he's lying. But I think maybe there's some type of campaign going on. What do you guys think? Again, all due respect to David Grush. I mean, no ill will. But that's just my feeling right now. I don't know. Please drop a comment. Let me know what your thoughts are. I'd love to get more information. If you're someone that's like deep in this world again, I consider myself a UFO casual to be honest 'cause there's so many people that know way more than I do. But if there's anything that I'm missing on this, please drop a comment, YouTube, Spotify, I read all of them. Even if I don't get back to you, someone else will. Also, good news. If you like history content, we have an entire channel dedicated to history camp. That's where I talk about Hawara and a bunch of that stuff. If you like religious content, kind of like how we talked about today, well, great news, religion camp, I deep dive on every religion under the sun. And if you just like to rock with the mystery vibe, well, great news. We do that every single week, twice a week here at the camp, Genio. Additionally, let me also say, we have a secret society that's patron.com/campagnon. And we have a link in the description. If you go there, you're gonna get every episode of this show completely add free. You're also gonna get zooms every month with me and the rest of the squad. You're also gonna get access to events that we do throughout the year that we're only gonna open up to patrons to make sure you guys are like normal human beings. So, patreon.com is the place to go. And it's gonna cost you like five bucks a month. So, that's a place you can check out additional content. Also, I'm on the road. Market on live, you can come see me do a standup comedy. I would love to shake your hand after the show. Say what's up, we'll grab a flick and you can tell me all about your theories as it comes to aliens. Anyway, there's been another episode of camp. God bless you all. Appreciate you being here. Creestos, thank you for being here, dude. Thank you. Wouldn't be possible without you guys. God bless and I'll see you next time. Peace. [BLANK_AUDIO]