Why the Best SEO Tool in Freight Marketing Is Free

Navigating the complexities of the logistics industry is not for the week, but you can stay ahead with CargoRex, your compass and logistics. Whether you're a researcher seeking trends, a leader forging partnerships, or a creator amplifying your voice, CargoRex simplifies it all. With advanced search tools, insight, analytics, and a community of innovators, CargoRex helps who explore, discover, and evolve. Just keep up with logistics, lead the way. Visit CargoRex.io and start your journey today. Hey everyone, it is Blythe Milligan here with everything is logistics presented by SPI logistics, the best freight agent program in North America. I got a quick one for you today, or I guess a quicker one. You're listening to this Memorial Day Week and so for a lot of folks, you're leaning back a little bit, you're kind of relaxing, you're thinking about, what are you going to do this summer? How am I going to enjoy myself? And if you clicked play on this episode, you're probably one of the psychotic people, just like me who's thinking about, how can I update my SEO strategy? What if that's you, then you've come to the right episode because I wanted to do a quicker intro in order to surface a conversation that I had last fall with great Sharky. If you've listened to the show before, you're well aware of who she is. She is the marketing manager over at Orderful and EDI company. And last fall, we went through, during one of our live shows together, we went through an SEO, organic SEO exercise. This week at the time of recording, this is before Memorial Day weekend, Google just dropped a major SEO update on what they qualify as how your site qualify and think about organic SEO and Google for the record rarely does that. They rarely do these news updates and sort of dispelling myths. And they've spelled a lot of myths in the AI SEO, AEO, GEO world. God, I hate all of those acronyms. But I wanted to surface this conversation because number one, I didn't do a very good job of distributing it out to the audience. And number two, there's still a lot of valuable information. Overbowling majority of that episode is still very much accurate. And I kind of want to give myself a little pat on the back for calling balls and strikes here. But there were a couple myths that I was doing last fall or even last month until Google releases updates. Put it at the end of this quick little intro because there's a lot of, it's not really fear mongering, but it's a lot of debate that's going on in the organic search world. It stems back to how our user behavior is changing because of large language models like cloud and JGPT and Gemini with the AI overviews inside of Google search. So there's a lot of internal debate, there's a lot of phrases being created. And now we're starting to get some concrete answers. We're starting to get some real data. AI search from a LLM perspective, so all those big acronyms that I just named plus cloud. All of those are now starting to, I guess, come to light that all of those searches combined are really only sitting at 1% of the overall market share for search. And so there's a lot of controversy and debate and opinions going around about how to optimize for LLMs because that's really where a lot of conversations are being started before the buying process or that research process and the informational discovery process is being shifted from a Google one over to a large language model one. But that shift is still only 1% of the overall search market share. And so there's a lot of interesting rumors or myths that were being put to bed, one of which that I mentioned in this conversation that we will play here shortly. But I had to write it down because the no LLMs text files, I mentioned at this show that you should have a markdown file on your website, specifically for LLMs. Google has come out and said that's not needed. We already understand your website enough. We're able to crawl your site and we're able to understand enough that we don't need to access that file. That's still kind of being debated. They also said that you don't need FAQs on every single page of your site. I think a lot of us knew that, but there's some spammy tactics being deployed. So schema is not as important as it maybe should be. I personally think that schema is still very valuable. Schema is a way to technically program your site so that robots can understand it. And so I won't be removing schema anytime soon. But I do take Google's guidance to heart because they still speak of market share. And they still control around 88-89% of the market share for the search market, organic search market, and then probably paid as well. I would assume that that's up there maybe even more than organic search. But I wanted to bring all of that to light because this conversation is really helpful if you're trying to figure out what the hell to do with your site, with your content, with your marketing, with your messaging. There's so many things that are being pulled in so many different areas from an attention standpoint. Just the mental load on ourselves feels sometimes overwhelming with how much demand all of these platforms are, I guess, demanding of your attention. And how you spread it so thin, how you search, I mean, even think about how you search now, you're putting in long paragraphs of search data into a large language model. You're using shorter phrases and key words on not just Google, but over on any social media channel. You're using that same way that you search on Google on these social media channels. And so our attention is getting divided in a bunch of different ways. And then what do you do when you find something that you like? You screenshot it and you send it to a friend. And then a friend hears about you or hears about your company and then they Google you and then they arrive on your side and you have no way of tracking any of that from a business owner perspective, from a business owner lens, marketing lens. And so it's just we're entering into a new era. And I, the SEO expert that I follow that I love and I pulled his name up because I always put her pronouncing it. So I'm so sorry, but Guntano Denardi that he is an SEO expert over on. He has a sub-sack. He's also on LinkedIn. I think he's on X as well, but I don't think he's as active on there, but he has been an SEO expert that I've followed for years and he's calling out a lot of these, dispelling a lot of these different myths. But he talked about how dark search is the new dark social and with how much our attention is being pulled in all of these different channels and all of these different mediums, dark search where you take where you use a few keywords and you find out something and you send the screenshot to a friend and the friend comes on. All of those different buying processes or research processes happen all the time, all day, every day and we have no way to measure it. And so what does a marketer do, right? A marketer who has to report a certain amount of numbers or a, you know, a CRO that has to report a certain amount of numbers to an executive team, they have to have some data to report on. And so it creates a challenging atmosphere when you add on additional, this was already a problem before chat GPT and before Claude and Gemini. And so now it's just an extra layer onto the mix and it feels, it feels like a lot, it feels like a lot. But luckily there are people out there like Guntano and then also of course, Adam Robinson, if you're part of any logistics marketing groups are on LinkedIn at all, you should know who Adam Robinson in, he's been in the SEO game for a very long time. He has a newsletter called Air Cover, which is fantastic and he is developing a paraphrasing here. So forgive me Adam, but it's an index of where he is using, from what I understand, the same prompt across a bunch of different LLMs for several different high level companies seeing who ranks, seeing who doesn't rank and is reporting the data on those numbers. And so it's really, really insightful because even though AI search is only around 1% of the overall market and there's no real way to track a lot of this stuff just yet and some of these LLMs are highly personalized. So you have to keep that in mind of if you do a search inside of chat GPT and your chat history is turned on, it's gonna give you different results on if your husband were to, or your wife were to sit down in that same session, different account, but ask the same exact question and it will give her a different answer because of her chat history or his chat history. So vice versa, vice versa, whatever. There's lots of ways that people are trying to figure this out and I think it's fascinating. It's like almost like a new wild wild west put on top of an established marketing channel. Like everybody kind of knew like out of rank for organic SEO, technical SEO, things like that. If you don't, there's still ways to, these tools are making it so much easier. to figure that out. But these folks on these different channels are trying have a higher, a very high level of expertise. And so if you want to learn quickly, I would definitely give those to a major shout out to learn from because they've helped me for years. And so hopefully, you know, a lot of folks out there, they will give you some help as well. So I think my covered all of the, you know, the new people to follow, the intro, and then also with or not the intro, but actually setting up the conversation to have with Grace, where we go much more in depth on the SEO discussion. So I'm going to get into that and a little bit more about the how did you hear about us forms. I've been harping on this for years that probably now, and if you're unfamiliar, this is the, the mindset of all of your high intent converting forms on your site should have a field on the site. Ask how did you hear about us? No drop down, no check boxes, just a free text required field. It should be on all of your book of demo, book of call, high intent, purchase forms, all of those you should be collecting this data because that is going to be the only way that you're going to be able to measure your social media efforts, your search efforts. If you need help with getting something like that set up on any of your sites, or yeah, I guess any of your sites, any of your platforms, contact me. Sorry, I'm recovering from a sickness. And so I wanted to, all that to say I wanted to get this information out to you guys, resurface it, give you the updates on where we kind of stand from an organic SEO perspective, and who you should be following as far as like who's trying to figure this stuff out in real time. So both an industry expert and someone outside the industry, I'll put them in the show notes in case it's helpful. But that's it for this one. Stay tuned for the conversation with Gray Cherokee, where we go much more in depth on the thought process behind organic search in the logistics industry. Give it a listen. So Gray Cherokee, Black Milligan, back, everything is logistics podcast presented by SPI logistics. And we're going to get into some SEO tips for busy freight and logistics marketers because much like we talked about in our other segment around data and trying to pull everything in and make sense of that data and where the value is that's exactly what's happening in the world of SEO and trying to figure out what the hell do I do as far as content marketing is concerned. How do I market my company better? How do I placate the SEO gods? But then also, you know, kind of tap dance for the large language models that are out there, even though we don't have a clear defined set of rules for these LLMs like Chatchy PT and Claude and not Claude. Oh, yeah, Claude. I know it's good for coders. I just haven't used it in a while for any other. I'm locked into Chatchy PT now, so that is that my LLM of choice, but perplexity, you know, all of these Gemini, I'm not going to go through and name all of these, but you want to make your company visible in these different large language models. You also still want to placate the old SEO rules because the majority of the internet is still searching under the old SEO rules. I know it kind of feels like it's all new in the world of AI, but I want to kind of give like a high level overview of SEO because you in your new role over at Orderful, you are in charge of getting some PR for Orderful, which is good for SEO. It's great for backlinks, and so we've kind of discussed in previous episodes about helping you with your role, and so as someone who, you know, builds websites from technical perspective and then also on the front end as far as content and SEO is concerned, I want to know right now what I guess your understanding of SEO is and what kind of strategies maybe you're deploying right now or are you deploying anything right now. SBI logistics has been sponsoring this podcast since the day we went independent in January 2023. Their support has directly led to the growth of this show and the creator investments that we've been able to make. So if SBI supports a podcast like me, imagine how they support their own freight agents. Don't believe me? Hear it directly from one other agents, like Tine and Goothy. Or here from Steve Burrows, who is one of my favorite podcast guests of all time, on how the impact of SBI's technology, financials, and support system helped his company. This is just a fraction of the conversations we've had with SBI agents and their executive team. You can listen to all of these conversations over on the Everything is Logistics website, or if you're ready to make the jump from your current agency partner, visit SBI3PL.com. So I will say this, Kate, who runs our SEO at Orderful, is a goddess. So if I didn't have Kate here, this would be a different discussion. You know what's interesting though is like, read some, for example, so recently we've been keeping track of our keywords and how those have moved, I think is big, and a big part of that venture is that we're redoing a lot of our blogs on our site. For example, we have a couple of these blogs out there that are listing different EDI providers. So when people are searching who's the best person, those tricks, I'd say Google search tricks. That's an outside, that's my call. What a trick. So we've seen a lot of healthy results there. I think what's interesting though too is of course a little bit of this SEO. And you know, I saw an article today, it's called a geo. I knew she'd hate that. So the SEO and geo things, right? And how are we showing up for each? So for instance, like now we're working on our Wikipedia page because ChatGPT does pull more of that too. And we haven't, let's be honest, it doesn't, it hasn't really mattered too much more of the Google analytic side of things until now. So focusing kind of on these weird areas that we're seeing ChatGPT pull. So when people are asking what's the best provider for EDI or something on those lines, we're behaving in a way that they're behaving. Another big area we found is like updating our YouTube videos. So they're kind of asking the questions that people could potentially be asking there too. And so I think that's what's interesting is like understanding like how people are searching for things now, what's how that's being pulled. But of course, you know how that's leading to at the end of the day pipeline, I think is the big thing. You know, here's a question and we'll start with Blight that I've prepared for you as well. Look at this. So because this is kind of important to the role that I have as well. So we're talking a little about how a lot of my work is a little bit more bottom of funnel compared to the a little bit even more of KTM does is a little bit more top of funnel. And regards from your point of view to SEO KPIs outside of just traffic. What should a company be focusing on so that they are seeing lead quality improve or at least a pipeline influence from it as well? Questioning, you might not know the answer to it. But do you know if you're using Google search console? Yes. Okay. So inside of Google search console, Google search console is my personally my favorite tool. And I used the word tool use loosely because there's there's H refs, there's sem rush, there's you know, all of these different keyword monitoring tools. You know, these tools that will look at the volume of a keyword and suggest a keyword that has low competition but high volume. And the problem with those tools is that they're relying on guesswork. Whereas Google search console is relying on Google and Google doesn't share that data with anyone except for their own products. And so if you have what's called Google search console, typically it's a short little piece of code that your web developer can add into your site so it tells Google your domain history, your domain value. And your domain value is the URL that you input. So ordifull.com in in this case. So if you go into Google search console, the best reports that you can see, you can look at your pages and you can look at your queries. I love to look at my queries and then to see because your query is not sometimes it could be a short phrase, sometimes it could be one word, sometimes it could be your brand name. But what you really want to see especially in today's world are long tail keywords. Long tail keywords are you know, at least five words. Three to five words that these long tail keywords are you know, what is the best or you know, best edi integrator for 2025 that that could be a common phrase that that folks might be using. And then what happens is in your Google search console, you can see how many impressions you're getting. So what that means is you're looking at the console and you're saying, okay, I have maybe you know, 15,000 impressions for this word. Well right next to it, they're going to list what the click through rate is. And that means how many people saw you in a search result and then decided to click. If you sort those two columns, by the least or the most amount of impressions that you're getting, but the least amount of click through rates, then you can also click on the pages and you can see which pages are registering for that query that people are ignoring. So when they scroll through Google, what they're looking at is they're looking at what's called an SEO meta title, an SEO description, and sometimes an image, sometimes a video, it just depends on the phrase that you're looking for, and if you have that properly optimized on your website, on a blog post, on a landing page, so you have to have that clearly defined, but it just, it kinda shows the point of you have about a half a second on someone's Google search results in order to make that impression that somebody should click on that link. And so that to me is low hanging fruit. For anybody who's out there, you can go to Google search console, as long as your domain is verified, you wanna make sure that verification is added into your domain, it just tells Google that you own the site and that you have the authority to manage it. So they will give you this data of all of these queries, and you can see which ones that you're performing already good at, and as far as impression wise, but if you just make slight tweaks to the title page and the description, it could increase your click through rate for a phrase that you're already getting impressions for. I don't wanna say ranking, 'cause you don't necessarily know yet how you're ranking for that word, but then you can also infer. So whatever the phrase is, maybe it's like EDI integration trouble, or EDI integration error, something like that, where that is something you're getting a lot of impressions for, and then look at the page that is being sent for that. So that, what that is telling you, what that console is retelling you, is that Google thinks that this page is relevant to this query, but for whatever reason, if it's a low click through rate, the audience is not thinking that you can solve their problem with the way that the title and the description are set up. Does that make sense? - Yes, and I believe that's like, when I was talking about Kate's update, I think that's the journey that she's currently on. - Okay, perfect. So that's low hanging keyword, or low hanging fruit for anybody that's out there that is wondering, okay, where do I even start? Start there, get it sensitive with that. - And we've seen like really great improvements from just like the very little read, I don't wanna say rebranding, but almost like repurposing of like the blogs, and I think those links that are coming through and making sure that they are clicking through more often, or whatever showing upright, whatever content of ours is showing up in that post is relating better so that click through is happening. - And then you could have multiple pages that are showing up for that particular phrase, and so what you kinda wanna do is just make a attack first kind of priority list, and that's what Google Search Console helps you to do, is to make that attack first mentality. And so from Kate's perspective, she's probably going through and making some tweaks on her end, from your point of view, that could signal to you. Okay, well, let me look for the queries that make the most sense for the bottom of the funnel, for the people who are looking for answers to that question. - I'm really looking for, I'll say do the recording somewhere. Yes, I'm recording this, yes. Oh my God, you guys are learning with me, look at this, go. - So what you're gonna wanna do is you're gonna wanna look at, because this is the way that SEO is evolving, and I'll take it into LLMs in just a second, where the volume, so say if you went to H refs, it might tell you that that string of keyword, those phrases gets no search volume, and it will essentially tell you, this is not worth your time to solve. That could not be further from the truth. First of all, they don't have access to the first party data, they only have their own first party data to sort of judge by, which I do think that some of those tools have their place, especially maybe finding some opportunities. I personally, especially for marketing teams that are strapped for time, and their entire agency is that are tasked with handling SEO, because it's a lot more than just, let me tweak this blog post in order to match this query, but that long tail query, if you match it to what your buyer, or what the position of your buyer is, are they problem aware, are they solution aware? Do they even know that they have a problem? Typically, they know that they have a problem that they're searching for that phrase. What you want to do is you want to then make content in the future around those particular topics, as long as it's relevant to your audience, where previously in my past life, early days of the internet, I was looking at these tools and I was looking at, oh my God, this phrase has a ridiculous amount of volume and low competition. I'll make a blog article and I get tons of traffic to my site. It's a win, but it's not the right kind of win. I think for, I use this example before, like digital dispatch ranks, I think one, two, or in the top three, for how do I fill out a logbook? Digital dispatch has nothing to do with logbooks. - Yeah. - All right, website development and management company. - I see what you mean. Don't just take that result and make a bunch of content for someone's not your ideal customer. - Yes, and that historically is why a lot of SEOs, that's what we call ourselves. A lot of the SEOs out there are falling victim, or have fallen victim to this because they're chasing the arbitrary vanity metrics. They're not chasing the keyword phrases that are gonna actually bring in pipeline, that are gonna bring in leads and book meetings. - I've never read like that. - I've never called five and then it's just bogging your sales reps hate you. - Exactly. And so you're at marketing, that's exactly right. You're sending off shitty leads to the sales team. They're gonna try their best maybe at first to call some of those leads and to reach out to them, but if they're reaching out about logbooks and you're a web development company, it's actually-- - It makes sense. - So the way that this is transitioning into the LLM world, because Google has spent the past 20 years of defining how you rank for specific keywords and they give out guidance for web developers and designers and content marketers of this is how you structure your website, this is how you structure your content, in order to rank better for specific keywords. Where a lot of people messed up is that they were chasing these keyword phrases that had nothing to do with their business or it was just very low value traffic and it sent just unqualified pipeline. Now where it gets a little bit more challenging in the world of LLMs is that they don't have that clear defined, make sure you put your website in this technical structure, make sure you're getting linked back, they haven't released any of that. So the best assumption that SEOs can go off of right now is the long established rules of what Google has done. Now there's obviously competition in this regard because this is, LLMs are a brand new way to search for information on the internet and Google has been catching up pretty well as far as their own data, their own LLMs and how they're handling search engine rankings and who should be given traffic and who shouldn't be. It's a big problem and Google hasn't exactly solved it yet. Then you enter in AI content and they don't know what's being created by real people, what's being created by real companies. So there's all of these different additional technical side of things which I'm not going to bore y'all about that play a role as well. But now with LLMs, it's getting more into a very long tail phrase. I am experiencing data issues with my invoicing from XYZ trucking company, they don't want to pay. That is a full paragraph. And that is what is making companies either show up or not show up in LLMs. And so there's an argument to be made that not only should you be focusing on the long tail keywords that you have sort of low hanging fruit in your Google search console, but how can you predict what that paragraph text is around that query? And so that's really important too. And so the ways that some of the SEOs that I have bookmarked in order to prep for my own SEO plans for Cogorex, I've pulled in 20 different searches of all of these different SEO experts that I follow and in-depth knowledge. And the commonality among those things is finding the long tail, detailed paragraphs of what your audience is asking and make sure that it's bottom of the funnel. Who cares if it doesn't get any quote unquote search volume because what the LLMs are looking for is slightly different than what Google is looking for. And so if you can tailor that around, they'll tell-- - Because people are probably for it. I would assume what's happening when you say the paragraph aspect is, instead of someone saying, who's the best in my situation? Who's the best EDI provider? They're saying, who's the best EDI provider for supply chain. companies who have less than a hundred million dollars in revenue and looking to scale in the next five years to two hundred million dollars. And then more detail. Yeah. And then to be honest, if you work internal at a company, that could be a little more challenging because you're used to the jargon. You're used to these market conditions. So that's where customer calls, like recording your calls, meeting notes, things like that's where those can play a pivotal role in this because then you can find out the jargon that your customers are using and then match it up with those long tail keywords because what the LLMs are doing is that they're they're adding more nuance. They're adding more detail, but the LLMs have to have something to go off of. So what do you do as a marketer? Well, you want to make sure that you have an FAQ page that is very detailed. In FAQ, you got to have your questions that are in a certain format from a technical perspective, like go into some very light technical. You're basically watching this right now. What you're watching me experience is she brought this up before we started recording and I'm not going to lie, kind of went in one ear and out the other, but now it's clicking. So continue. Okay, so FAQ pages are going to be really important. There is also a debate around creating a separate markdown file just for LLMs. Now, a markdown file is basically a data repository of all of your website's content, but that's what Google wants to see. That's what the robots are crawling and checking. Now, on the flip side, if you make one specifically for LLMs and you include a bunch of information about your company FAQs that are being asked and you just, it's a plain text file, that allows the LLMs to have one resource document that they can scan. So there is a lot of, I don't want to say debate, but tips around add a markdown language doc to your website that includes an FAQ section, information about your company, customers you help and add that nuance to that document. And then that way you can also format an FAQ landing page because you don't want visitors finding that in an LLMs and then go clicking on the source page. You want them clicking on the nice page that's built around easy readability. You got proper H1, H2 formatting on the question title and then you have a full description or maybe even better, you know, the YouTube explainer video that goes into that as well because YouTube is the second largest search engine on the planet. And there are many people who would much rather go to a YouTube video and watch that versus reading pages and pages of FAQs. So if I were you, I would figure out what those FAQ questions are. I would pull in all of the meeting notes from the sales team. I would pull them in from current customers, especially if they're recording onboarding conversations because those are the questions that people want answer to before they ever pick up the phone and book a meeting up. So having that prioritization, I would start with Google search console, I would start with editing or auditing, not auditing, but pulling in all of the customer onboarding conversations. And then that to me are the two biggest gold mines for how you can make like a Venn diagram of your first kind of initial attack plan for placating not only the Google gods because Google still controls, you know, I think it's 88% of the search market that has dropped a little because of the LLM adoption, but we're so new to LLM adoption that it's, I think especially for the logistics audience and for a lot of folks making these buying decisions, they're not using chat GPT and perplexed in cloud yet. So for a large portion of that internet, they're always going to stay on Google. It's what they're familiar with, they're not changing and they're sometimes, they don't want to even entertain the idea of using AI, which is a whole other, you know, bucket of worms. So I would target those two areas and then I would make the FAQ pages, I would make some mark down language from a technical perspective. And then I would also make sure that your website is discoverable and you're discoverable, not only in, meaning you have a site map that Google is regularly crawling, but you also want to add Bing in there too because guess what? Bing and OpenAI, they've had a relationship for years. If you want to be included in Bing's version of chat GPT, then you want to make sure that your site map is also added to Bing so that they know to crawl your site for these different mark down languages for these different FAQs. These are easy winners ahead of time. So that is, I would, I would, I said a lot. I don't know if like it's, it's resonating, hopefully it is. I'm just taking notes and actually everyone should stop watching the video right now. No, don't stop watching. I'll share the transcript with you. You can, okay, so there are a couple of notes that I can take. That was very helpful. That was excellent. No, that was very helpful. I love that. And I like, honestly, I can use it, but I bet you a lot of sales teams haven't even thought of that aspect. And I mean, I don't know about you, but pretty much any conversation I have business related, any conversation I have at this point, I'm recording. So it's like, and I would assume most sales teams are doing that in some form. So instead of just like using that to monitor how good your sales are, why aren't you using that to also improve your search, you know? That's a great point because I was just listening to a podcast the other day that mentioned that they store all of their customer, um, conversation, recorded conversations in a certain database. And then they'll have one of their like admin assistants, you know, go in and find, um, you know, something about that customer, like, uh, what their favorite sports team is or their favorite like vodka brand or something like that. And they will use the customer conversations in order to send a personalized gift to that customer. And I thought that was such a brilliant use of using your meeting notes and making a deeper connection with your customers and your potential leads by using these recorded conversations. Now of course you can't, you want to be a little careful, you don't want to, you know, mention specific companies, but you can profile them into different, you know, I see P buckets and then that way that's a, it's a better resource for you to have where you have, you know, different customer segments that you can classify each of these different meeting notes into, um, the one boarding calls are I, uh, in every like freight tech interview that I do for, for this show, I always ask about onboarding because I know that's what people, they want to know what the experience is going to be like before they ever book a meeting with you. And so if you can give that information as much of that information up front as possible without ruining, you know, any kind of competitive advantage or, you know, disclosing any like sensitive customer data that is a huge win. I briefly mentioned on the technology side of things or like on that, I guess the SEO tech side of things that that is very important too. Like you want to make sure you also have an interlinking strategy. You want to bucket your customers into certain ICPs, but you also want to bucket your topics into, into different content buckets as well that match up to those ICPs. And so these are different like sort of like one, oh, two, one of three levels, like once you get the, the technical aspect right with your website, then you don't necessarily have to worry about that in the future. So get it right from the jump, make sure that these search engines are crawling your site and then start with Google search console and, and then work with your meeting notes. And then that is a perfect place to get started. And then you can start to, you know, expand from there. The cat has an opinion for this. She's only your tail just like yes. She wants to hear more about SEO and Ellen. That's awesome. No, I love that. I think that's super helpful. And I would assume like it, it sounds like it's not only just helping at LLM's, but also just the SEO side of it as well. So you're going to cover one stone. That's the thing is like you, Google has a set of defined rules and strategies. And so my theory is, is that a lot of these LLMs are not going to reinvent the wheel. But Google has spent 20 years perfecting who should show up and why. And you could argue, you know, around the merits of some, there's lots of arguing about what they should do and what they shouldn't do. But what they have right now is probably going to be followed by these other companies. And so you might also, I had a client recently that they don't want any of their content scraped by LLMs. They don't want anything. They want to actually block them. And so it was Cloudinary, which is a hosting like DDoS platform. We host some of our sites with their platform. But they allow you to now block the LLM bots from scraping your site and using it as an informational resource. I don't recommend that. Yeah. But there are like with cargo ricks, for example, I'm not letting it all. I'm letting a little bit. I'm not. letting it all, I'm not going to have like strategic advantage is like giving that in for you want people come to the site for the impregnance. Yeah, exactly. So I don't want to give it all out. Yeah. And then why would they want to do business with me? I want to prove that you and the LL in first. And so we have some different ways that I'm going to be experimenting with that. But everything that I just told you like that is exactly my plan for cargo wrecks. And so it's making these blog post guides, you know, getting real world testimonials, not just, oh, I need an article about associations and logistics. Well, guess what? Like if you, I did those research reports and at best you're going to find maybe 10 solutions or 10 associations, not all of them were relevant to what I was looking for. But you know, you want to be able to use these LL lens to your advantage within reason, but just know that they're working off a very limited data set because they don't even, they haven't even let like webmasters know what that, what they're looking for to begin with. So we have to rely on what Google has told us for years, what the results kind of are hinting at. And then what some, you know, early adopters, early experimenters are finding success with. And that's creating those FAQ pages and that's creating a markdown page for specifically for LL LMS. So both of those things were deploying on cargo wrecks. So I'll report back if they're, you know, successful or not. But, um, it's it. Gosh, I cannot believe I'm blanking on her name right now, but she works over at Avril TMS. I love her too. Oh, I'm sorry. I can't believe I'm blanking on her name. What company do you have? Is it not Avril? Yeah, and that's AVRL. Alice. No, Elvis. Yes. Yes. Elvis. Goddamn. What is your name? She's gonna be so mad at us. I'm sorry. And I love her. So we were gonna find out, um, right now. I always spell Elvis wrong too. I was with the wine. I always thought, yeah, it's gonna drive me nuts because we love her. We do love you. And why are you popping up for me? I spelled it wrong. I guess maybe, um, I'm only didn't. I'm seeing like other TMS providers hold on. She's all over my here. I can see her face. Yeah, I see her face because she's gorgeous. And she's a Eva. Eva. Sorry. I swear. But she just posted a video the other day on on LinkedIn about how, you know, she's been experimenting with chat GPT-5 and how she's using FAQ pages on, you know, the, um, the Elvis, you know, landing pages there. And so, you know, we're all at I think that's the beauty of this space right now is that there's a tremendous amount of opportunity. If you can have these LLM bots scrape your site and source you in the right way that it leads qualified traffic to you, it's going to take some figuring out. And I think that, you know, that that's what Eva is is proving. That's what other, you know, marketers in this space and just, you know, industry wide are trying to figure out. We're all trying to kind of figure this out together. There is no real structure into how to win yet. But I think that's part of the fun is like trying to figure out where to, you know, place your flag. And maybe it's not one flag. Maybe it's a bunch of different flags. And so if I had any sort of like lasting advice is just make sure from a technical perspective that your site is discoverable in both Google and Bing because then you know that the LLM can also access your site. Add an FAQ page to your website that's pretty simple, pretty easy. Add for God's sakes like team photos who works for your company to your about us page that gives a little extra, you know, sort of trust as creating like a trust moment on your site because frankly, no one's going to book a meeting with you if you have no team member photos on your site or any kind of just hints that your legitimate company for Autos rampant. I don't have to tell anybody else that. But if you can nail those two things, then it makes going into Google search console, pulling meeting notes and making those FAQ pages a lot easier. So I think that's um, oh that was a lot. No, it was a lot. I hope everyone on watch that learned something. I definitely did for sure. Um, I guess if I could ask do I have time to ask please go. So we're doing, we're starting to deploy some more of our content syndication strategies for example. What are, I don't even want to say what are some of your like best tips for content syndication? And I almost want to flip that question. Where do you see people maybe execute content syndication poorly? What do you mean by content syndication? Um, in terms of like doing webinars with different sites or doing white paper, gated white papers, sponsored articles, things of that nature. Where do you see people maybe not getting the pipeline that they hoped from that from just mistakes that they've made? Well, I would. So I was at the team. And we might have talked about this in the last episode. But at the recent TMSA conference, we had a Shippers panel in every single part. It was four people on the panel. But every single one of them said that they liked getting case studies. And I would have never guessed that as a marketer. I would have done that a little bit because I think I brought up the fact that like I always see our engagement pop up with case studies, especially just like brands that people know. And typically a case study so that that buyer journey is you're going to probably, you know, create the content with the customer. It's really tough to get customers on record for for some of these things. And so when they do get the customer on record, typically they'll post it out to LinkedIn. They'll make a LinkedIn ad. Somebody sees it on their feed. They click on it. They go to the page. They enter their email address. They download the ebook. The problem is is that for a lot of ebooks, not a lot of them are read. And so even though you've done the hard work of like creating it and getting awareness around it and getting the folks to come and download it, it's one of those things where people once they download it, they know that they have it. And it's just, oh, I can go back and read that later. They're not actually digesting it to the point where they're going to read it in full and then call in book a meeting with you. So from that lens, I would say they're still worth it. You should still create them, but you should have a greater distribution strategy around that white paper. I would actually first get the customer on a video interview. I would ask them a lot of those different questions, send the questions in advance so they can kind of think about, you know, for some of these customers, it might have been a while since they went through the onboarding phase and, you know, questions that they asked and things like that. So if you could do this on new customers, this is that, that, this is what I would do is I, as soon as their onboarding is finished, I would schedule an interview with them. And then I would hopefully get it recorded and they have permission in order for you to share it out. But I would put that video out. I would make a written white paper slash case study from that video because then you have the video of them talking about it. You have the transcript of them talking about it on your YouTube channel, which will help from SEO perspective as well. And then it helps the creepers, the creepers who are not going to fill out, you know, their email address. They're going to make a fake email in order to get that white paper because they don't want nobody calling them or reaching out to them and bombarding them. Like people have wise and up to this flow. But if you just put the information out there and then you make white paper case studies based on that interview, I would use that as like a combination package because then your sales team can take that YouTube interview and send it out to their leads. Or they can send it out to, you know, specific questions, especially if you have it that interview tailored around different questions. You could isolate those clips for all of those different questions and your sales team can have a content library to send to their leads if they're on the fence or if they have a question about onboarding. Well, guess what? I have this seven minute video where this customer was talking about their onboarding experience. And are these specific questions? And so then you have almost like an entire library that the sales team can use. You're getting more qualified leads because they're digesting your content, they're reading it, and then they book a meeting and then they're more qualified to close because of that initial strategy. So hopefully all of that makes sense. No, I think that, I mean, and honestly for small teams too, that makes sense because you're not only gathering, you're not only fulfilling maybe that that gated asset, but you're collecting a large amount of, I mean, YouTube shorts and I mean, to talk about what we talked about right before hand, I mean, in my head I'm thinking, well, you take all the onboarding questions, you do a, you record a podcast with some a customer who is open to talk about the onboarding experience. You touch on those questions that pop up more most frequently and then not only do you now have content for blogs or whatever to kind of bring in that the SEO strategy, but at the same time now you have all the videos that you can post out. It's like, you've created content that's helping in so many different ways. Yeah, I mean, it's really like if you start with the video interviews or even, you know, pulling in some of your customer onboarding calls or even lead calls because that can, that's a whole other can of words that you could target from a customer perspective too, is answering those questions because people use your website as sort of like the last line of, do I want to invest time into talking to these people? And so what you can use your website as as the sales closer that works, you know, 24/7 for you. So then that way you're answering as many questions as possible so that they know when they book a meeting, they're not going to waste their time. And if you position it that way with these different resources, I would be surprised if you didn't see an overall lift of people who are dealing with, you know, those common issues. And then focus on your distribution, get it out on email, share it out on social, share it several times on social, it doesn't matter if it's the same clip and you're going to post it once a week for the next six months, nobody remembers your content like you remember your content. And the fact is, is that if you're posting a clip out on social media, chances are, no, especially if it's organic and you don't put any like paid ads behind it, hardly anybody's going to see it. And a fraction of the people are going to interact with it. And then, you know, we've talked earlier, you know, about like views and what counts as a view and, you know, who knows how many people saw that video and didn't actually listen to it. Or maybe they saw the video and never unmuted it, but read the text in the post. So all of these different instances exist. And so you can create that, you can create your own content supply chain based on those customer interviews that hopefully leads to more customers that are just like the ideal ICP that you're going after. And you're playing in the world of great content. So great original content that can't be replicated by LLMs, but they can use you as a source to people who are looking for those answers. So, that's a lot. I'm worn out. I just got free advice. This is, I forgot what we're going to cover in the rest of the show. Damn. He's less talking about how our personal eyes are going to be. He's asking you, like, how to do my job. I was like, I'm just going to buy your classes. Look at me. That's good. I don't have any actually SEO classes on the site. I have been, I've been readjusting how I approach SEO because I feel uncomfortable selling that as a service. If I don't know the answers, and I don't know that anybody knows the answers right now. And so I, but I am work, I feel like I need to test it on my own brands first. And then come up with a solution that I can advise other other companies. So that is just sort of everything that I know and the experiments that I'm going to take based on the experts that I follow and just some of the data I've seen. But hopefully, you know, this will be something that we can add on, you know, like a LLM technical package to, you know, websites for folks who need it. If you don't have a lot of content in your site, you don't need it. Just make sure that you're paid. Add an FAQ page is probably the easiest thing that I would suggest. No matter if you have blog content or not because the FAQ page will help a ton. But if you don't have blog content, you don't need to. And if you don't have the energy or the budget or the staff to do blog and video content, I would focus on video first. I would not focus on blog content because blog content can just be replaceable, but with AI. And so you have to get to both protect yourself from getting cannibalized by these LLMs, but also position your company as a resource for the LLMs, which is a fine line to walk. Yeah, interesting. Okay, well, that does it for this segment. I hope, you know, freight marketers out there, you know, found some value in this. Maybe some company in the store. Oh, they did. God, I hope so because I feel out of breath and we still have the rest of the show. Thanks for tuning into another episode of Everything You'll Suggestix, where we talk all things supply chain for the thinkers in freight. If you liked this episode, there's plenty more where that came from. Be sure to follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you never miss a conversation. The show is also available in video format over on YouTube just by searching Everything is Logistics. And if you're working in freight logistics or supply chain marketing, check out my company Digital Dispatch. We help you build smarter websites and marketing systems that actually drive results, not just vanity metrics. Additionally, if you're trying to find the right freight tech tools or partners without getting buried in buzzwords, head on over to cargo wrecks.io where we're building the largest database of logistics services and solutions. All the links you need are in the show notes. I'll catch you in the next episode in Go Jags. [Music] (upbeat music)