Why some women rush platonic intimacy in new friendships, with Minaa B.

I was recently working with a client who came to me with a goal of attracting deeper friendships. And during our session, she shared that she had this pattern of forming friendships who couldn't "go there" with her. And so the goal was for me to share strategies with her for finding the right people. So I did what I do. I listened periodically crafting thoughtful questions about what she wanted and what seemed to be missing. And throughout her conversation, it became very clear that there's nothing wrong with her desire for depth in her friendships with other women. We all want that. But she wanted all of it right away. And so as a coach, we came up with these exercises for her to show up in her new friendships in a more gradual, healthy way. And I gave her homework to put it into practice, which, by the way, is available to you. If you are a member of Office Hours, I shared the three exercises that I crafted specifically for her that you might also benefit from. If you find yourself in the same dilemma, you want depth, you want platonic intimacy, but you find yourself pursuing it and expecting it pretty immediately after meeting new friends. I think those exercises will help and you can join us as a member anytime by visiting betterfemialfriendships.com/podcast. In fact, you'll get a two week free trial when you do. That's betterfemialfriendships.com/podcast. So you can access the same exercises that I created for her to help slow you down a bit. But the whole thing did get me wondering about women who do find themselves in this position. Why do they want these things so quickly? How can they slow themselves down? And what is at the root of this pursuit of fast friendship? And naturally, what are some of the disadvantages of moving so quickly? Now, I'm no therapist and I'm big on staying in my lane as a coach, but I do know a therapist who specializes in exactly this and she is here this week to help us through it. Welcome back to the Friend Forward Podcast, a show where we are dedicated to unpacking the complexities of women's friendships. I'm your host Danielle Byert Jackson, a woman's relational health educator and author of the book, Fighting for Our Friendships. And it's my job to study with the latest research has to say about women's cooperation, communication, and conflict. But you know that already. In this week's episode of the podcast, we're talking to therapist Mina B. She's the author of a book titled Owning Our Struggles, A Path to Healing and Finding Community in a Broken World. And she also specializes in helping people understand how their sibling and peer relationships shape their adult connections. So today, I have her on the show to walk us through the downsides of pursuing platonic intimacy so quickly within new friendships and how we can enjoy that same intimacy, but in a slower, healthier way. My name is Mina B. I am a licensed therapist based in New York City. I work with adult clients and I have a special focus on sibling relationships. So I created the framework, the sibling theory, which helps people understand how their sibling and peer relationship shape their sense of belonging, conflict, and connection throughout life. I'm also the author of the book, Owning Our Struggles, and I host the podcast, This Feels Familiar. Yes, and I loved your book so much. And I see so many of us with the whole sibling connection, maybe reenacting or reliving some of it in our friendships. And so there's definitely this strong connection between those world. And we might have this closeness with our siblings, but when we're meeting people from scratch, we're trying to figure out what role does intimacy play, how to achieve it. And there are common mistakes that we make going about trying to experience this with other people in a platonic way. And so I was thinking you could kind of walk us through some of the misconceptions or mistakes that I often see, and I'm sure you do too. And that is the immediacy with which we are trying to experience closeness with a new girlfriend. Talk to me about what you think is going on there and how we might be able to step away from that habit. So I agree. I see this often in my work where people are hungry for connection. And as a result of that, it's causing them to move very fast when they do meet someone that they like. They click well with the person. They might find that they have a few things in common with the person. And therefore it sends off this green light that this is a safe space for me to maybe overload, overshare, or maybe even, you know, expose certain parts of myself without fully knowing one. Can I actually trust this person? Two, is this person ready to know these things about me? Have I gotten permission to share certain things with this person? And what I mean by that is I think sometimes permission, it can happen in a way where we are actually asking for consent to share certain things. But I also think it happens in cues and in body language and just in the way that we share with one another and the rapport that we build with one another. And so I find that often people might overload, they might overshare, they might find themselves wanting to really, really utilize this new person as a safe space where they can dump their problems or share something deeply intimate. And that can actually cause some friction in developing a new relationship with someone. The person might feel that they're unequipped to help you with what you have going on in your life. But then also some people are very scared of being someone's emotional support system very early on because it might feel like is this all you want for me to be a dumping ground for you, for me to be the person that you can share all these issues with. But we haven't really developed rapport in any other area of the relationship. And so that's one of the things that I would just encourage people to think about, why am I oversharing? You know, when I'm thinking about meeting somebody new and I feel really, really inclined to tell them, my deepest, darkest struggles and my trauma, that might mean that I do need some support, but is it from this person? Could it be that I do need to see a therapist? Could it be that the type of connection that I need might be from a support group? Not the friend that I met at Happy Hour last night. And it's hard because when a lot of us do romanticize friendship and our definition of friendship is just being known in every way, so many women want that right away. And they might think to themselves, well, what's the harm? Because don't you tell us, be vulnerable? Don't you tell us to share? And I hear you saying that even though it feels like something that just is synonymous with friendship, is that it can have the opposite effects if we're doing this without those other important parts, like building trust or really learning each other. Or to your point, even knowing that this person is willing to step into the role, which kind of takes us to the second question I had for you. So many women often express discouragement around sharing or leaning it very quickly, and they just feel like the other person does not want to go there. What do you think might be happening here? Or what are we getting wrong when we experience that as a form of rejection? I think when we are hungry for a connection and we meet people, we make the assumption that that person is also as starved for connection as we are, when it might be that they actually have an abundance of not just people in their lives, but they might also be satiated from the friendships and the connections that they already have. So I kind of like to look at this as dating. You meet someone, you go on a great day, they're really cool, they're really kind, but you realize that you guys just have different values. You're in different places. It doesn't mean that there is no connection. It doesn't mean that you can't build a friendship with that person, but it is going to look different because you recognize you guys have two completely different needs. And so I think that we also have to remember to not take it personally when we are trying to cultivate new relationships. And we might notice the person isn't as eager to hang out with us as much as we are. It's not that they're not putting in effort, but maybe they do text you once every two weeks or they make an attempt to plan a hang out once a month. It might be because their calendar is full from the other relationships they have going on in life and they're finding where they can fit you in. It's not like they're neglecting you because if they were neglecting you, they probably wouldn't reach out at all. But I think when you are on the end where your calendar is empty and no one's inviting you over, you don't have someone's couch that you can lay on. You don't have the girlfriend that you can go have brunch with. You might find yourself clinging to the people that you meet and then you take it personally when they're not showing the same level of interest, but it may not have anything to do with you. It might just mean that they're already full. They're at capacity. And so what does it also look like to meet people where they are and allow that relationship to build slowly, but also recognize their categories to friendships. So while you're looking for a friend that you can probably vent to, the friend that you can go to their house and maybe cry on their couch and watch movies together, if that person already has that, maybe they're looking for the friend that they could just have brunch with every other weekend so that they could have some fun so that they could get away from the kids, get away from the stress, all the things that they have going on, but maybe when it's time for them though. Sheer. get really personal, they're calling their best friend already and you might not be that person that they call. Let me give people a minute for that to sink in because it can be so difficult to do what you're asking us to do Which is to depersonalize that and also to acknowledge an alternate reality and perspective that this person's world has been designed in such a way over the course of their life where they've got people in those slots. So you trying to make this happen with them in worst case, manufacture this like with them and they're fitting you in where you fit in. It is hard I think for some people to not internalize that. Oh, I guess I'm not worth the effort. I guess I'm not and so I appreciate your reminder of It's not personal, but this person's got their social world and their intimacy already satisfied and you know what it makes me instantly think of is you know, there's research that suggests that women really value Mutual prioritization. So if I feel like you're my number one two girl. I want to fill the same way from you You know, I want to match this energy and I feel like we see that most explicitly when it's time to pick bridesmaids Now I've got to see this ranking of Where I fall if I'm in it at all, but I think this is where it always plays out of she has other factors Maybe that came to play in how she was choosing people, but also to your point She's closer with these girls just because you're ranking her high and you're world And I also don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing like if she's one of your top friends great You know, what are your thoughts there to the woman who's like no, I want a person who matches energy and she ranks me the same and they're Really attached to this idea. What are your thoughts there? As I mentioned earlier, I do a lot of work around sibling relationships and it's making me think of one core area that a lot of sibling struggle with Which is competition and scarcity So when I see mom and dad praising my older sister for her really good grades But I keep bringing home poor grades or I see mom and dad praising my brother simply for being a boy and his achievements Right if I feel like love and resources and attention are scarce then I'm probably gonna try to do everything that I can To get that level of attention somewhere else and I find that in friendships We also struggle with competition and scarcity. What do you mean? I'm a bridesmaid, but not a made of honor What do you mean that you chose the made of honor that you've known for 15 years even though I've known you for five? I thought I was still valuable to you And when we grow up in environments where we feel like love and affection is scarce We may also feel that in friendship love and affection is scarce And this is where the rankings come in when we have the titles close friend best friend Equaintance because we know that if someone is a best friend you feel closer to them But if I'm not a best friend that competition and that scarcity mindset can come to the forefront where it can create this illusion Why am I not good enough? What do I need to do to earn that spot? So do I need to reach out to you more? Do I need to plan parties for you? Do I need to go above and beyond so that I can earn this attention without Recognizing all you have to do is just be you all you have to do is just show up in the way that you can But if you have this internal blueprint that says I'm unworthy because I often receive less and it started in my family dynamic That can also trickle out to our friendships where we might perceive this idea that I'm receiving less because that person who might be the big Sister is getting more and I'm the younger sister who's getting less and that can also play out in our friendship dynamics as well Where that competition and that scarcity mindset really impacts how we develop bonds because sometimes we're competing with people We want the positions that they have But then we also feel like the friend that we feel close to do they have enough love to give all of us and My worthy enough for the attention and the affection that you give to everyone can I get that to and I think that's the Internal blueprint a lot of people are struggling with in their friendships Wow, yes, I Am hopeful that that is freeing for somebody right now to feel seen like wow that is how I've been operating and I didn't even realize That is why I'm tired and persistently feeling disappointed or trying to earn and prove and I know that for somebody listening You just helped to make it very plain for them You know, of course my natural next question is how does one start to Come out of that where they realize well you just read me you just said all the things that I'm doing this has been a pattern in all of my Friendships with other women. I don't want to do that anymore. I do want to step back manage expectations What are any tactical or mindset things that you could offer for her to begin moving her feet in a new direction? So the first thing is I think it's really important to be able to highlight the things that you do and the ways that you show up and what you give Versus focusing on what you don't do and versus what you can't do and what you don't give So going back to that sibling dynamic. Well, of course my sister is getting pretty. She's really good at sports I'm not good at sports. All right, but that doesn't mean I'm not good at anything Right, and so one I think it's important for you to recognize the way that you do show up in friendship Because you may not be able to give the same level of a support and care that another friend can if you just had a baby You're probably going to be too tired to be this particular friend to all the people in your life Where the friend who didn't have the baby or her kids just went off to college and she's an empty nester She might have more freedom and flexibility So that's where the competition comes in but the competition is happening because you're highlighting somebody's life Based off something that really doesn't align with your own you're in two completely different categories of life So first Focus on what you do have but also what you give because yes You might not be the friend who can show up to everything because you have the newborn or because you're taking care of the parent or whatever the reason is But you can say this is how I'm able to show up and not compare that to What other people are able to do so that's the first thing the next thing is a lot of this has to be internal Work because this is impacting self-esteem and confidence and it actually has nothing to do with a friend Right, so this is where sometimes working with a therapist is important and doing a lot of work on rewiring your own Self-esteem and your own value and your own self-worth this looks like being reflective enough to ask yourself What makes me special instead of waiting for my parents validation instead of waiting for my siblings validation What are the things that I can validate for myself because the more I wait for outside validation and approval It's never gonna happen. I'm never gonna feel good enough because no one's gonna give it to me So I have to validate myself by knowing who I am and that's the starting point who are you? Who do you want to be and what is the gap between where you are and where you are trying to go in the version of yourself that you want to be What are the things that you can be doing to fill that gap that might mean one more self-reflective work more ways to identify what your values are But also more ways to identify yourself importance in people's lives That's good you've laid it out in a way where it feels accessible But it obviously sounds like work that you have to really commit to over time and to really let that stuff marinate So that is so important You know as we close are there any final words either point you want to make encouragement you want to offer for the woman who is hungry for closeness and can honestly reflect and say I am making some mistakes about trying to rush it personalizing rejection or staying in my lane of what makes me comfortable What final thoughts do you have on forming or rushing or misunderstanding platonic intimacy? Yeah, you know, I think in the same way that we all grew up with the belief that Disney sold us fairy tales about love I do believe sitcoms sold us fairy tales around friendship It's sold us this idea that you can barge into your friend's house at any time and mysteriously. They'll always be home You can always have spontaneous dates Every time you get together it's going to be a time where everyone's crying and deeply emotional And I do think it's really important for people to take the time out to ask themselves what fantasies Do I have around friendship? Because maybe that is impacting my dissatisfaction in life because the thing that I'm imagining isn't coming to fruition But it's because the thing that I'm imagining really isn't real Right, and so I would encourage you to one think about the influences that you have around what you think friendship is Are you getting those influences from what you watch on TV from other friend groups from social media? Because you're not really getting the full story You're not seeing the hard times you're not seeing the difficult moments You're also not seeing the individual stressors each person is navigating So I would really encourage people to Really cultivate a real world idea of what friendship can look like and understand that in any relationship That requires effort it requires intention, but it also requires compromise And so when we let go of this fantasy of what things look like It can also allow more peace in our lives because it allows us to deal with the tension That comes when we're not getting what we want from friendship because our imagined version says friendship is easy Friendship means people always come over, friendship means spontaneity But sometimes friendship does look like we have to plan things three weeks in advance Sometimes friendship does look like We may not speak every single day 'cause I have a sick child at home where so many stressors. Sometimes friendship looks like we may not be able to do the girls trip this year, but we can do something locally. And when we really understand what's happening in people's lives, it allows for more room, more room for empathy and compassion of each other's needs, which also helps to build intimacy. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)