Speaker 1Hi there. Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and addiction. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for help. Send me a message on all social media platforms at recoveringoutloudpod or by email at recoveringoutloudpod at gmail.com. You are no longer alone. Oh, Tom, my good friend, Tom, welcome back to Recovering Out Loud, buddy. I'm so glad you came back and, you know, didn't, I didn't scare you away the first time. No, man, I just worry I'm
Speaker 2showing a bit too much chest. It's hot outside today. Chest here.
Speaker 1Yeah. You bike everywhere, don't you?
Speaker 2I bike everywhere. Sometimes I catch myself like on transit, like. If you want to fix that. What do I do? Go just go like this? Yeah, it looks okay. Yeah, that's pretty good, right? Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I catch myself like on transit and I'm like, wow, it's kind of like a vacation
Speaker 1for me. Look at all these people. They do this every day. My legs aren't moving.
Speaker 2Oh, this is kind of nice. The worst is when I decide, okay, I'm not going to ride my bike and then I hop on a streetcar or something and I'm sitting there and I see all the bikes going by and I'm like, this is the worst mistake I've made all week. Yeah, I could be flying right now. Yeah, exactly. It drives me nuts.
Speaker 1I do that a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2It was a, it's a huge, I try and tell people early in recovery too. They're like, what should I do? I'm like, get a fucking bike, man. Because I mean, first of all, like I got back into biking in my twenties and it's exactly what it feels like when you're a kid. And I became a bike messenger because of it. I just fell in love with it. But also in early recovery, we're looking for any reason not to go to a meeting. And for me, when it's winter transit, I'd be like, no, I'm not going. But like, I will ride across town in a blizzard to a meeting. And that's like one of the high points of my week. I've seen you do it. Yeah. I ride all year. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I live across town from Corktown and the first like two months of ride, I got sober in December. And so all winter I was riding and it was just like, this is my penance. You deserve this. I deserve this. Yeah. Yeah. But honestly, like it kind of, it helped motivate me, you know, because you feel like such a piece of shit when you first get sober and those little things about trying to, you know, show yourself that like, oh no, I'm capable of doing hard stuff once in a while, you know? So anyways, thanks for having me. Yeah, of course, man. I even put on a shirt for you today. Nice. Me too. I'm soaked. I'm soaked. It's air conditioning here, but it's a, it's a toasty.
Speaker 1Which wasn't always the case. We had one guy in here that, uh, it was not air. The guy was fixing the air conditioning. So I'm grateful for air conditioning today.
Speaker 2Oh God. I love it. I love air conditioning so much. I've, I spent my first four or five summers in Toronto without air conditioning. And then when I got air conditioning, I was like subletting some loft or something for a year that summer. I didn't leave all summer. Turns out that they deliver booze and cocaine and cocaine. And, uh, I was, the only thing I was eating was popsicles and I gained 35 pounds, not eating food. I wasn't eating food. I was just eating popsicles. Fuck. I don't when you're it, it's baffling how you're not eating anything, but somehow you're, you're like, I'm like, Ooh man, I'm like drug chic. You look at yourself and you're like, just puffed out. It just looks like death.
Speaker 1I was looking at a video of, I I'm happy that I've taken a bunch of my videos of myself like in addiction because that's a good reminder of like, and yeah, to your point, it's like, uh, the first thing I noticed is like the bags under the eyes. Right. And then the puffy face and just the despair in my eyes. Right. Like you can just see it. I love it too, because I've looked
Speaker 2at some of them and remembered, I thought it looked good in this photo and I've just, I'm so fat. I saw, I just actually posted to my sober channel, practically sober. Uh, it was like three weeks before I got sober and I was on a plane and I had a broken shoulder. I was flying back from Florida, I think. And I remembered taking it and thinking this, I look good in this. And if, when you see it, I'll send it to you. I look like a Teemu version of myself. I don't even, I don't look anything like me.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. But to your point, it's like, yeah, I'm fine. Everything's fine. Yeah. And then one of those drinking escapade injuries that we, uh, you know, we seem to accumulate in active addiction and alcoholism, broken shoulder. How'd you break your shoulder? I was, uh, staying on
Speaker 2a boat. Um, I was, I was shooting a band, but it was at a rich musician's house down in Fort Lauderdale and I showed up and, was like, okay, what room am I in? They're like, oh, you're in the yacht parked out back. And I'm like, fine, I'll take it. There's a bar in the yacht. And, um, and I just, there's lots of steps in a boat and I turned all the lights off and it just fell and dislocated my shoulder and it cracked. And the first thing I thought was I didn't get travel insurance in the U S I'm like, what do I do? What do I do? And I, it was out for a little bit. And I was like, I'm going to have to go to the airport and fly back to Canada with a dislocated shoulder. Oh my God. Because otherwise it's going to cost me like 30, $40,000 or something. And then I just grabbed a curtain rod and popped it back in. Oh, and, uh, I'm suffering, man. Like it hurts right now. To this day, you're still paying for it. Yeah. I'm going in for some free Canadian MRIs in two weeks. So it's a beautiful thing living in this country. I love Canada. Yeah. Me too, man. Some
Speaker 1days I really have to remind myself that I have it pretty good. Yeah. Um, or when I'm talking to people, sorry, when I'm talking to people about trying to get them into treatment and they're complaining about the free, rehab that we have in the waiting lists, it's like, yeah, it sucks. But I mean,
Speaker 2I'll wait. It's free. Yeah. I mean, I booked these MRIs, what? I don't know, two months ago. That's fine. They're not, I got a hernia right now. It's fine. You know, they're like, it's, you can see it straight there. It's my little buddy. And they were like, I don't know, you want to get it fixed? I'm like, is it fine? He's like, lose some weight. That's okay. He's like, then we can throw on the list. It's fine. It'll be free. So, cause I broke in like 30 bones in my life. And I haven't paid a dime for any of them. Most of those were drinking related. No, like just no, almost none of them actually. Well, okay. Here's the thing. I mean, I was drunk all day, every day for 20 something years. So I was drunk for a lot of them. Uh, but it wasn't because it was because I was skateboarding because I was looking at a girl on my bike and I hit a tree. Um, uh, some of them were, were drinking related, getting punched in the face. That would have been me running my mouth when I was drunk. Yeah. Which you probably wouldn't have done. So, and I got a punchable face. So I think I said that in the last,
Speaker 1I don't think so. Okay. I mean, yeah, no, you probably said that, but I don't, I don't think
Speaker 2you have a punchable face. I've seen some pretty, not in Toronto, back in Vancouver, it was apparently the number one punchable face. Cause I was just getting hit by strangers on the
Speaker 1street. Oh, I love it. Um, yeah, man, it's, uh, you know, today was a tough one today. I was telling you outside, um, I got fired from my other job, which I was like driving here today. And I'm like, should I talk about this? Should I not talk about this? Um, lay it on me. Yeah. And I, I don't like, I don't come on here and try to get like, uh, although it would be great to get pity, right. Because I love people feeling sorry for me. Yeah. Oh no, stop. Keep going. In my veins. Yeah. Right. But it's like, I gotta be honest. And I started this podcast to be fully honest and I knew I was going to get fired. I, I saw it coming, you know, it turns out when you don't put in a hundred percent effort, like people notice. Right. And I knew it was coming. I was spending too much time, uh, doing this stuff. And, uh, it just, it hurts still, you know, it still hurts when your ego takes that hit. And we were talking about it outside. It's like, you know, I'm not doing any of the work. I'm not meeting my responsibilities, but you should, I should still be getting paid. You know, it's like, what the hell, man? No, you, you, you got yourself in this situation and now it's time to navigate yourself back out. Right. So there's a lot of positives. I can spend more time on my other job. Right. Um, it's going to
Speaker 2be okay, you know, but it's still, it's scary, right. Especially living in Toronto. Yeah. Yeah. Not being a very wealthy person. I'll say, um, yeah, when those things happen, I honestly, like I use my, okay. So the other day I'm, I'm hanging out with, uh, two old friends. We went to film school together. We're in there. One of their fucking penthouses over on Roncy overlooking park. And, and my buddy Doug, he's, he's in town from LA and they wouldn't let him back in the country. Um, yeah, he lives in, in Santa Monica. Uh, but, uh, you know, one friend, he, you, you know, produces all these big movies for Netflix and then Doug has Emmys and stuff. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, this is making me feel bad about myself. And I had to catch myself and, and remember that like, look, my life is my life, but also, um, they didn't have to go through 25 years of crushing alcoholism, you know, like, and I use that as not as an excuse, but also just like a reason for me to go easy on myself, you know, like, one thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is just the commonality, like the, the, how common it is for, to be alcoholic. Like I just put on a video the other day, it's like, we're alcoholics and that's fine. Like it's okay. Like it's not what we think it is. We're not special. There are, I don't know, hundreds of millions of us, like hundreds of millions of us around, around the world. And, and it's completely fine, fine to be an alcoholic. And so for me, understanding that means that I can give myself a break, you know, like no one gets mad at someone who who gets fucking throat cancer and they're like weren't you doing better in your life
Speaker 1it's like well a good box why do you keep keep having that cancer it's really annoying exactly
Speaker 2do you know what that's that cancer is doing to my productivity you know no it's it's we got to give ourselves a lot of grace uh to be able to say just accept where we are say mistakes were made and um where do we go from here as long as we're doing the right things then uh you know just keep
Speaker 1moving forward that's what i was going to say man is like it's really hard to get mad at somebody that's trying you know and i can honestly say i spent yeah the better part of you know probably eight to ten years in active addiction not trying like like really not trying not working on myself um and yeah it's very easy for me to to go back and well you know i was in active alcoholism and addiction so like poor me it's like so were millions of other people exactly right and as we speak right now as we sit down here i went through a tough morning there's millions of people out there going through way worse right it's all subjective man like trauma subjective like at least a bomb wasn't dropped on my fucking
Speaker 2country i was just going this morning going through footage of kids in uganda looking so happy in schools uh put on by this non-profit that i've been doing work with and i'm looking at them and they're just having a fucking blast and i'm like yeah this is fine what's going on with me right now it is it's completely okay but yeah those people it is hard to and i've seen it definitely seen it throughout because i was constantly trying to get sober you know i just wasn't i didn't know how to do it and one of the comments that i've gotten a lot from people since getting sober is like i'm so happy that you got there because i watched you trying for years which is like the hardest thing exactly and and and it wasn't good enough um because i was trying to do it my own way but i the the i aspired i so aspired to get sober and like the idea of i i see and i had to cut people out of my life who um they saw that and they're like weak i'm like you're way worse than i am and you're like using me as this uh this example of like failure or something you're not even trying okay and like cutting them out of my life was easy yeah if that made sense yeah i don't
Speaker 1you're i always say this but it's like you're just your motives were different your you know preferences change right and yeah i try to surround i always say this i try to surround myself with people who are working on themselves yeah right that's that's it you know i don't i don't care about how successful you are i don't care about no you know um how important you are how famous you are it's if you're working on yourself right and you're being a good person you know you're trying fuck man come hang out with me like you know so i had a mom reach out to me last week and she was like i'm not gonna do this i'm not gonna do this i'm not gonna do this i'm not totally overwhelmed not knowing how to help her 15 year old son she picked up what's wrong with my teen after i had mentioned it here and messaged me a week later saying she finally felt seen that's why i bring stuff like this up if you're a parent in the thick of it confused scared or just tired this book is a great place to start check the link in the show notes below what's
Speaker 2funny is i thought it was kind of a liability like i i didn't really even try dating for my mom and dad i was like i'm gonna go through like dating apps and looking at all these things and i'm like they won't like me i don't drink anymore every time like i'm not good enough for this whatever and then i i took a break and i came back and i went and i met this you know now great girl that i've been seeing for a little bit but uh one thing i've i've heard since i don't know just having a bit of a perspective shift is uh people are attracted to you if you're working on yourself and i thought they would be attracted to me because i was life of the party you know it's like no that was you saw where that went you know and uh that's so a lot of the feedback that i'm getting just from people in my life and stuff because a lot of people reach out you know uh it's saying like it's so great to see that you're working on yourself they just want authentic tom yeah yeah my family likes that yeah yeah because i was not really authentic i was well i was i was a version of me it was just a monstrous version of me you know it took a couple took up a lot of space like a taker too right like what can i get out of the situation yeah purely purely selfish i was thinking about this in a meeting yesterday um uh you know i i love that when you're hearing someone talk and it just you get this memory that you thought was completely lost i remember being like 12 or 13 lying in my bed and thinking am i the main character i think i'm the main character i think the world actually revolves around me i think when i go to sleep everything shuts down and then i soon after that started drinking and it's like oh that kind of arrogance like people grow out of that you go into uh alcoholism where it's like that is just selfishness bottled you know uh that that what did not serve me well you know that self-importance uh carried on for the longest time and and it made me think about like when you have so much uh ego and and you think you're you're so important in the world that's so much work that's so much work that is so much work a lot of pressure too so exactly it's so much pressure and getting sober and learning humility for the first time almost 40 years old was like true humility you know um humility is such a load off it's it's acknowledging like hey i don't know what i'm doing here not just in recovery like everything being like i don't know how to do this uh can you tell me how because it for me it got rid of this like i need to boost myself up so much and i'm so important and i do have a job like i've been directing films and stuff not great ones but for a long time and uh i always thought like yeah i have to play the part you know fake it till you make it that you're the man and you know everything and now i'm like i want to go be a camera operator like i want to take lower roles now that that four years ago if i someone told me that i'd be like going and working as a camera operator somebody like well my life failed and now i'm like i want to learn from other people i want to i want to see how every how everything works and i'm like well someone had more fun too i want to i i don't need to be in control of things i i'm going to relinquish control to somebody else and say hey boss what do i do and like to me that provides like a lot of freedom and that's just one of the joys of one of the gifts of of sobriety you know
Speaker 1is that not recovery in a nutshell absolutely it's a great metaphor you know i don't know what i'm doing hey boss higher power god yeah you know even you know mentor sponsor just people in the fucking program people doing with more time than me yeah people who have what you want exactly that's
Speaker 2basically it i mean that's one thing i try and tell younger people is like is and i've got a sponsee now it's like he couldn't quite get it and then we met and and i hope this doesn't sound arrogant but he was like you you're cool he's like i fucking i want what you have and i was like gotcha i fucking got you man because then right away he was like tell me what to do and i was like let's let's fucking get into it and he is thriving and you've been in that exact situation exactly man we've all been right there and when you're when you're fucking five days in you first of all we think we're special nobody could understand what i'm going through oh absolutely i'm just it's for me i'm the main character and he's just a bunch of guys sitting back you're like uh-huh have a seat really buddy have a coffee yeah see tell us tell us your your story here like well you guys wouldn't get it be like pretty sure everybody in this room gets it try us yeah i was listening to a guy he's a scientist down the states uh in a meeting the other day and he was telling me what to do and i was like well you guys wouldn't get it but his story and he's like a nuclear physicist and i didn't i didn't his his his life was so different from mine but every time he came to this uh like inflection point in his life and he made a certain choice like the alcoholic choice i was like i would have made the same choice like i associated so closely with his thought processes and that made me so happy about like this is the commonality with everybody you know yeah all come from completely different uh paths but we have the same coding you know absolutely like i can you hear someone who's like well yeah it was robbing banks and ended up in jail and i got out to do a heist i'm like i couldn't be more different but i get it i totally understand that thought process when you hear the why exactly the why the motivation the motivation yeah do you have
Speaker 1an example of something that comes to your mind when uh you know the alcoholic choice i love that i've never you know i haven't heard it said like that you know i come to a point in my life i'm drinking i'm drugging i'm pissing people off i'm stealing i'm cheating i'm lying what does an alcoholic choice look like fuck it that's it i think it's those two words fuck it i know this
Speaker 2is the wrong thing to do uh i know that the better thing would be to do the responsible thing uh like i've got a huge thing i need to do tomorrow morning i've been looking forward to it for so long i know that i shouldn't have a drink uh fuck it fuck it it's gonna be different this time and it's never different any time at all and then you just ruin i just had a birthday a few days ago two days ago and uh i was at a meeting last night and i ran into an old sponsor and i was just saying oh it's like a perfect day he was like what would it have looked like if you were drinking i said well i wouldn't have slept yet i would still be up and also no i would have drank the night before and then ruin the whole thing it would have had to cancel all the plans that were made for me by friends who love me you know yeah like and the two guys i was with they're like yeah me too like that's the thing that's the thing that's the alcoholic choice you know ruining your birthdays ruining other people's birthdays and then worst thing is we make it through by the skin of our teeth we don't create a really bad problem you know and then at the end of the day we're like fucking did that and we're like now i know i can do that so i'm gonna do it again you know that's that's how i always looked at things was like if i made it through if i didn't die if i didn't die and i made it to my bed at some point and and i think i got through relatively unscathed it's like i use that to level up my debauchery like let's test the limits even further next time what else can i get away that's why like you know in my last three years of drinking and using drugs it was like the longest i stayed up was like two days or something by the end the longest i'd stayed up was two weeks like because it was like i made it to four days well i can do five days next time i can do eight days and like that's not that's not progress that is progress from the exact opposite direction you know and
Speaker 1and to your point i look at that and i can't help but think we come into recovery we get sober why can't i do that inversely yeah you know you gotta do uh son you want to stay sober you go into a whatever recovery event meeting whatever you want whatever you do to get sober you're talking to your sober community talking to a therapist you anthony you need to do this this and this you need to you know try a meeting uh talk to your therapist try praying in the morning and then i'm like well i don't really want to do that you know and it's like you start to do it right and it's like well fuck i did that pretty easily like i and then you put together a certain amount of time and then the exact inverse can happen where it's like what else can i do i got a job that i've always wanted i got a job that was you know never thought i would get i got a promotion at work in sobriety it's like holy crap i can do anything i ran a marathon in sobriety yeah like it's because
Speaker 2we were we're sinking before you know we're going down below ground and we like it like we're getting closer to the grave and we're like i'm cool look at me i'm further down than the other people as soon as you get up for for air you're just like and if you're ready for it you know then you it's like okay well i've atrophied uh i need to learn how to walk and stuff but then you start picking up speed uh and and luckily if you're if you were really fucked you start looking around you're like holy shit why didn't anyone tell me this is actually really great up here you know and then you're like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm and then you start doing it but it it takes daily maintenance you know otherwise there's still a part of me that says like when i see someone maybe dead on the street like passed out with a bottle of whiskey in a stairwell i look at them and part of my brain still goes lucky fucker because it's in there because i'm an alcoholic and i've accepted that that will happen to me and when it does happen i'm like yeah it's like flicks me and i'm like i get it i know you're still here and that's fine you know it's just a matter of like not being mad at the fact that i am an
Speaker 1alcoholic yeah what's the fantasy for you because i i have that thought too where it's like that you know fucking guy you know middle of the day for me it's middle of the day in the elevator i see some guy like constantly you know and i'm automatically assume he's you know responsibly using cocaine and having a great time that's my first thought and i'm like that motherfucker like he's getting away with it yeah what's your fantasy in that like what does that look like uh the what do you mean like yeah so you see the guy on the street like drinking and and i don't know
Speaker 2i saw okay i saw a guy uh riding his bike holding a fucking pilsner the other day it just looked like a bike messenger kind of guy and i'm behind him riding and i'm like that fucking guy it's middle of the day he's riding along uh fucking college street and i'm i'm like that guy's okay so happy living the dream living the dream and then i see move and then i come around him and i look at him i'm like i don't think this guy's left this guy is he looks miserable but in my head i'm like lucky miserable fuck yeah you know that's it just it's just happens to me you know it it did when i was out you know for with friends on my birthday it's like a guy he got my friend he got a rosé and i'm like i'm i'm at uh there's people drinking all around me you know and it's i don't want the alcohol i want the freedom to be able to drink it and i'm like i don't want the alcohol i want the freedom to be able to drink the alcohol yeah that's that's what i that's what i crave and that's that's my alcoholism saying maybe you can and i have to always remind myself like no i can't you know i just like if if i'm allergic to bees i'm not gonna eat bees you know i'm not gonna i'm not gonna be like oh i just got some fresh bees let's make them angry and then open it up and stick it on my face you know it's
Speaker 1a different brand of bees yeah exactly this one won't hurt me yeah i know no it's newbies yeah yeah
Speaker 2i keep hearing this ad for this thing it's like a uh it's on all all over you know politics podcasts anyways um freaking what's it called pod save america and stuff and bulwark it's a uh it's this pill that some fucking mit i don't know scientists figured out um that gets rid of the enzymes that make you hung over so you take it before you drink and apparently it's great and i always go back to just like well that's why i stopped drinking was it i mean i was just hung over all the time maybe i could try this maybe i could maybe just based on a feeling and an ad i'll throw my life away yeah and you know what it wouldn't do work it wouldn't work man because that's for normal people that's where people have two or three drinks yeah or two or three hangovers a year exactly they're like well i went out and i had three martinis and and exactly i'd be like what's a martini yeah i'd be like what's a martini i'd be like what's a martini i'd be like what's a i i don't have a martini i drink a box of wine martini takes too long to make that fucking hose into my mouth that like this four years ago that backpack there'd be a box of white wine yeah and by the end of the day it'd be gone because i was responsible by responsible i mean have all the booze on me at all times you're prepared of course i was prepared i have never produced anything in my life as a person i've never produced anything in my life as a person i've never produced anything as well as my alcoholism like there was never a time when i would run out of anything like those i used to set three alarms on my phone uh say on a friday night because i'd be with friends the 8 45 alarm meant that the liquor store was closing in 15 minutes the 9 45 meant that the wine rock was closing and the 10 45 meant that the brewery is closing and so i would get the alarm and i look around and be like hey we're good and we're good to be like yeah then come 10 45 i'd be like everyone fine and they'd be like no we're good and i'd look around be like no we're not we are not fine we're gonna be partying all night give me six hundred dollars alcohol went i'd throw in my courier bag and and buy buy 200 beers and come back and then there'd always be extra wine stashed in my room extra drugs all those things i knew where every liquor store was where when it closed uh how much to the penny was in my bank account because there wasn't much and you need to keep track yeah exactly yeah um as long as a hundred dollars bill came out of that bank machine top of the nothing else mattered i didn't need to look at
Speaker 1the the balance right or a drug dealer that fronted me yeah yeah that happened a lot too oh yeah i don't know if it was two thousand dollar tabs yeah i don't want to know tell me later just sweep it under the rug right that's what i was doing oh i call it sweeping everything i i love
Speaker 2uh there's this one episode of the simpsons written by conan o'brien uh when he goes back to college and they say oh mr simpson i can't like your your exams in two days and you haven't studied what are you gonna do he says i got a plan i'm gonna hide under a pile of coats and hope everything works out that's alcoholism that's alcoholism exactly that's why i ignored my taxes for 12 years turns out they don't like that very much and then when i did reach out to them they're like we figured you were dead or you'd left the country by the
Speaker 1way you owe us a hundred thousand dollars so that was a part of your amends process or you did that in in i went bankrupt yeah yeah and it was lovely it was wonderful and it was funny because people were
Speaker 2like well what about your credit i'm like here's what my credit is um it got ruined by blockbuster video because i lost night at the museum so that's how long i've had bad credit so i don't care yeah now i've got a credit card it's great yeah and when i first got the credit card they raised my limit to like fucking three thousand dollars so i was like i couldn't sleep i was like what do i do and i talked to my dad he's like that's what normal people have yeah that's in case bad things happen yeah you know i'm like oh right responsibility i'm a responsible citizen now so i'm still i'm still baffled by the benefits of i'm not living yeah it's wild
Speaker 1you know man you mentioned responsibility there and it's uh i like that one because it's like you know you you talk about the fantasy of freedom this illusion of freedom that alcohol and drugs bring from you and i think that's a really good point i think that's a really good point i think yeah um for me it's a misnomer yeah a hundred percent it's lack of responsibility right like essentially yeah when i that's what i miss the most is like i don't want to wake up and be an adult today i don't want to deal with all that stuff out there i just want to fucking please
Speaker 2anthony yeah i want to be i want to be a child yeah yeah um i uh my whole first year and i still worry about this it's the stupidest shit uh my whole first year i told myself you're allowed to the lottery every week, getting lottery tickets. and i'm like please don't win yeah and like that is one thing that like might me now i've got over two and a half years of sobriety nice man uh might make me relapse as if i got this massive windfall of money you know i've even planned it out like that's the hypotheticals okay mom so uh if i win the lottery uh i'm signing it over to you it's like yeah mate let's worry about you winning the lottery first yeah yeah yeah well you know it's probably gonna happen because i'm the main character yeah yeah by hearing people who do get sober uh and then and then get a lot of money and make it through it uh you know that's it's like everything our our sobriety for me my the strength of my sobriety comes from hearing other people's stories and saying oh they could do it so i guess i could probably do that too and and if i'm worried i'll call that guy i'll say hey i heard you speak about this and you made it through this how did you do that yeah and everyone's fine with saying yeah i just did it like this and and call me every day because that's what that's what we do in recovery you know we keep each other sober yeah it's a big a big part of i do tell new people this is like um and it was so huge to me was going into meetings and hearing people tell their story and seeing them and and they're like they're so put together you know and they're telling their story it's like so i'm living in a tent and i'm smoking crack and all these things i'm like are they lying to me because i i just can't picture it and hearing their story and seeing where they are that's where the faith came for me it was like holy fuck there is nothing special about this person they just did like they honestly this person i think they have an iq of like 98 and they're doing great and so why it's it's not like why can't i do that do this it's i can do this you know it's this perspective shift of uh why can't i why can't i get sober it's like well i can get sober just show me how to do it i just don't have the tools yet no because i thought i did thought if i wrote enough lists
Speaker 1plans yeah how am i going to do this how am i going to do this listen to enough self-help books oh god yeah not like this one no uh yeah no it's a good point man um you know we come in here so broken and then there's that hope that that gets instilled it's like if that guy can do it why can't i do it hope man that girl can't do yeah absolutely
Speaker 2hope is uh you know fucking andy to frame god out of shawshank you know wait that was about alcoholism wasn't it stephen king i'm embarrassed but i haven't seen it in a while yeah i gotta go get busy living or get busy dying yeah and stephen king when he wrote that he was he's an alcoholic yeah that's right yeah oh nice
Speaker 1yeah you haven't seen that a long time it's been a while yeah i love stephen king i've read a lot of his books uh i haven't read any of his books yeah i'm not you have adhd right
Speaker 2or yeah i just popped five ants before i came i'm feeling pretty good now yeah actually i'm feeling nothing now which is you're feeling yeah which is a good thing like fucking i didn't take one a few days ago and i was like what's going on in my brain yeah yeah that's a funny one
Speaker 1for me because when we've talked about this before but um you know outside help is really important sobriety recovery 12 step is not going to fix everything right you need you need outside help and i went down that path of of looking to fix my adhd i've come to realize that i don't have it because i was getting high off five ants you know and and i've come to realize that people that have adhd and are taking by vans and taking other medications that you know whatever uh adhd medications it's the normal it just fixes their brain yeah it calms them down yeah that's what it does to me yeah i never had that experience right and so that was a little back door that my addict brain had planned for me and that's essentially what led me down to my my year-long relapse from hell it came from meds yeah steroids first oh really yeah steroids first and then that opened the door for medication oh yeah as long as i get a doctor to approve it yeah i'm good it's allowed justify slippery slope man yeah and we love going skiing yeah i love skiing if you know what i mean yeah exactly it is no
Speaker 2yeah slalom anybody moguls my whole life it was there was no easy skiing it was moguls yeah yeah no i was really freaked out because i got diagnosed with adhd at about six months and uh it was you know proper way and the doctor the psychiatrist was like we got through an addictions clinic and uh she said you know you do the test uh gave it to my parents and then i did she was like yeah you have adhd and uh but then she asked me she's like so uh what do you think adderall it's like if you want me to fucking die like that's a party drug yeah like i i saved adderall specifically for when i'm in manhattan because a buddy of mine so much adderall yeah uh i had the vivance for a few weeks because i was worried it's an amphetamine man i'd never done amphetamines but uh then i you know took one and i was like oh i don't feel anything much calmer then i went up and up and up then i got too high and was like too much so i i came down and now if i feel like it's a bit too much i'll open a pill and empty a bit out and because that's how different my life is now like i got a little thing of white powder from emptying out uh pills and it's because oh that's a bit too much drugs for me yeah i was gonna say instead
Speaker 1of taking 10 of them yeah you're rationing which is a foreign concept for us i put it into some
Speaker 2caps and i gave it to a buddy who's got a newborn yeah yeah because he's he's going through it right now and he needs a little oomph yeah so whatever
Speaker 1but to your point it's like i i did not follow the process properly i lied on my uh test you know and i was manipulating and and doctor surfing and doing all the things so i mean there is a right way to do things uh the most important thing i think is that you told someone about it right and that's what i failed to do is like i would tell people 10 of the truth and i had a one of my favorite counselors in utah always used to say this is like you know if you're a doctor and you're if you're rob anthony if you're robbing banks 10 of the time but 90 of the time you're not robbing banks you're still a fucking bank robber you know and it's like you're not a diet bank robber bank robbing light yeah yeah i have to be 100 honest today i'm felony zero yeah i have to be 100 honest today right and that's you know it's important um i want to jump back to the analogy of like the director because i think that that's so such a good analogy for addiction is like my i so i'm the director of the director of the director of the director of the director of the if you put it in the analogy of like the shakespeare play right i'm the director i'm the actor i'm the guy cleaning the floor i'm the sound guy i'm everything you're one man band one man band i can't pass off anything to anyone else because don't you know i'm the main character
Speaker 2like you said i love that i did that in my career i i've been making documentaries for a long time and i had to be a one-man band i did sound i produced it i directed it i shot it i edited everything um because i was a one-man band and i was a one-man band and i was a one-man band because a control i thought i was the only person who could do it properly and b bringing someone else in uh that the jig would be up if i brought someone else on my i did i toured with bands and and made you know bike messenger documentary like all of these things uh uh where first of all it was fine for me to be drinking uh if you're with musicians and you're like oh it's beer o'clock two o'clock you know it's like well they don't know i'm nine beers in but also um if if someone else came on who was not an alcoholic working with me within a day they'd be like uh this guy yeah he's not allowed to do this don't give him any more responsibilities and but the work it was good you know like i was putting out good shit and and i was having fun with it that's one problem with being in the arts and getting fucked up all the time is like you use it as it's like oh it's not drugs it's like i'm expanding my mind and i'm uh i'm looking at things a different way you know it's a creative process it is it was my creative process i'd be before shooting something i'd be like hold on hold on it was just two shots and be like should you be doing that it's part of my process get out of here if i'm shooting on tour with a band or something i'd have beers stashed all over the stage to be a big stage sometimes and i had to be able to dip in take a swig and and and move on and now i've made amends to a lot of the crew members that i've been with tour managers and stuff like that yeah i did a lot of them know like was it obvious oh yeah yeah absolutely 100 but uh a lot of times it was kind of like what are you gonna do fire me no you need me no people and unfortunately the cat
Speaker 1they did yeah i can relate people come in here sometimes and even when i talk to them in recovery and sometimes they're like nobody knew and i'm looking at them like have you like have you asked them seriously that is one thing i asked them was like have you asked them have you asked them
Speaker 2is like okay you got a bit of time do you know they're like every time i'm like yeah yeah like when i meet some guy like in a meeting or something and it's like how you doing he's like oh i got two weeks like i don't think you do like i'm not gonna say that but oh that is the most terrifying thing we were so acute to the smell when you get sober um i don't know if regular people are but if regular people are i wasn't fooling anybody nobody i thought because i was drinking a vodka rockstar like just smell like rockstar no vodka i smelled like vodka if anything it's even worse yeah those two i remember the day in high school when i discovered that if i washed my hands and i put visor in nobody can know i'm high because i was high in school 24 like every class yeah and i that was one of the most dangerous like revelations of my life it was like okay because think of how much time and energy you put into maintaining yeah like god that i didn't realize that i was about eight or nine months sober and i had that realization and it was like that is one of the reasons i've got so much extra space in my head you get rid of these these things that are such a huge part of part of your daily life um that take up so much of your energy hangovers trying to just maintain that you're sober like all of these things you take them out it's like there's so much space to fill now also like you get sober and your your time triples like it my days are still like if anyone's looking at this and and you're worried that your life is speeding by get sober you it slows right down in the best way possible because you have all this time you have all this time like your days double or triple sometimes i want to ask you about uh i'm
Speaker 1curious about like the creative process and how that's changed now for you um did you did you at any point find that you were you felt like you were missing that creative juices when you were
Speaker 2trying to do it sober yes one time i was shooting a uh some musicians on stage and um it wasn't a big deal i was shooting it was something for a non-profit it was down at young and dundas square and uh like i had shot hundreds of shows you know hundreds over the decades and uh i couldn't figure out what was what was wrong i was like these just aren't looking and i realized i don't have those the guts like i was reckless in my shooting you know i've been shooting since i was 19 or 18 or something and so it was like uh i had balls like i would go on stage and i would go on stage you know i got i went on stage once in i don't know where it was fucking it's the ping-pong festival in europe i went on stage while ramstein was playing oh that's a heavy metal yeah there's a fire coming out of their face i got so much trouble but like i had those kind of balls right and then when i got sober at the end of the day i was like i clocked it near the end of the day and i was like that's what it is i was like all right recognize it and then i went and i shot with a band uh big show i don't know five thousand people or something at a casino maybe a month ago and i shot with them so many times uh it's first time shooting them sober and i i recognized that and and when i was on stage i'm like you know what you're doing here overcome that fear that fear and i went in and i was like that's the best fucking show i've ever done because and i was worried about this for a while was my reckless um courage about shooting stuff into into things you know like the we we try to conquer our our fears uh so much in recovery but like it's almost like i don't know it's hard to explain like yeah it's just one of those i feel like i feel like you're just overall it's a net gain i just feel like you're more responsible
Speaker 1like you don't take the risks exactly because you're like it's not worth it yeah the reward's
Speaker 2not worth the risk whereas like there are some things in life where you're like oh my god i'm at risks are good you know like reckless like a lot of the things i've made could not be made by made by a responsible person yeah they just like i made a whole film about bike messengers i was drunk on the back of a dirt bike flying through traffic yeah you know jesus like just reckless stuff and i would have been too scared to do that sober you know for good reason yeah i mean some of the films where i'm putting myself into a group of people or something that it's like dangerous like a dangerous like and i'm going in with a camera and and trying to put put people at ease it's like i wouldn't i was reckless in my 20s or 30s or something and like there's no way i would have done that sober no way i'd say hey look at me i'm drunk let's go you know and that got me a lot of access because film documentary films access anyways we're talking about my work what are we doing i want i wanted to ask you my just about because i'm very fascinated by your you going back out because you were you had years when i met you seven and a half yeah seven and a half years and then when you went back out i remember you when you just gone just come back and like what was overall because you're doing great now and like i see you every now every few weeks or something and i'm like oh he's like you're calmer and calmer and calmer and calmer you know and you look so much healthier than you did before too what what's it's what's my question here um overall what did that do to you
Speaker 1the relapse the relapse and now being back yeah um how is it different i get i get emotional thinking about thanks for saying that by the way because um some days i feel like i'm not making any progress you know and uh it's good to hear that from an outside source because i trust you and i love you but also it's like i love you too i i forget about uh i and i'm particularly thinking about that one monday where i went to that meeting and you said
Speaker 2day one yeah yeah well that one too that was when i told you you looked good outside the meeting yeah
Speaker 1yeah that was that was one and then but i'm thinking about um there was one where i was just like i must have looked awful and you know back to what we were talking about i thought it was fine right i thought i looked okay i'm just coming back you know and it was it was when i had been trying to come back constantly and i was constantly relapsing and i was you know i was with michael our good friend michael a lot working with him and i just couldn't get it like i couldn't i couldn't i could i would get a couple days and then i would go back out and and it was all ultimately the the mess and the fake adderall and stuff like that i just it was just like i don't know it was it was still serving me i know exactly that yeah like it was i was stuck in that that for almost a decade yeah yeah i honestly believe today i'm not i am i do not regret it you know i feel really bad that i had to pay and go back to rehab and take out loans and get help from my family again to go back to treatment um after going back to rehab and i was like i'm gonna go back to for the second time like i really thought i was done you know but i vividly remember still kind of having cravings in in utah yeah and uh i must have had a reservation coming out of there man like that i still would and this was ultimately it i still thought that i could safely use adhd medication it's conditional and be okay yeah conditional you said this in a meeting that you
Speaker 2spoke a while ago and that that stuck with me i made a video about it oh thanks called sobriety can't be conditional and it was inspired by what you said there it cannot be fucking conditional like and it's so hard because uh the only way we're gonna do it is is if we just say you give up you give up the fight because we're it's we're fighting against it part of us is fighting against getting sober and and if there are too many things on that side that are fighting against you getting sober it's not going to work you have to be able to deconstruct all of them and just rip them all down and in that little window when there aren't any you're just like ah get me sober and and that's i think that's the timing thing of everything yeah the little
Speaker 1willingness the window little window of willingness yeah to do whatever it takes complete defeat yeah
Speaker 2of of of like i said it it's we are in a war we're soldiers in a war that we are not trained for you know and we think we can do it ourselves like we didn't go to basic training we didn't do any of these fucking things and we're trying to fight it ourselves like it's like me going up and saying yeah i could pitch for the blue jays why not why not i think i can do it yeah i had a dream about it so just give me a shot it's like okay i break my arm i get hit with a ball yeah i get laughed laughed at you know like we're not trained for that kind of shit and it's it's yeah it's not
Speaker 1to like it's there's an important distinction here it's not that you can never ever do that no right it's like you can't just go blind into something with no training like you said right
Speaker 2totally like i i've been thinking a lot about skateboarding lately because i grew up skateboarding sobriety is so like recovery is so much like it you know um when you start out i know for me i started way back in the 90s um when i started i just was like it was so like magical to me but i didn't know what it was and then i saw someone do a trick and i was like how do you do that and they showed me you know and i kept going and going and going but i didn't then uh fucking say all right i know how to ollie i'm gonna ollie down this 10 you know no i built up i built up to things or else i was gonna get really fucking hurt you know and and it is those two recovery in the community and everything the anarchy of it all too like of the program that we're in and stuff is so much like skateboarding to me it's all about people helping each other and nothing but support and like you can go anywhere and if you just see someone else like skateboarding and just like that's you you know and but it takes daily work and you can't want to be sober and and want to be a good skateboarder without working without doing it you know because i know for me and like my first sponsor said this to me he's like he said you're very much like me like you came in and said fix me and i wanted to be fixed and i truly in my head believe like i heard people saying well i've been coming for you know 15 18 years i have 11 000 days blah blah blah i was like why you're fixed you know what are you what still doing here and no, it's, it's, it's the maintenance of it all. Like it's not the maintenance. It's like, you can't just get everything you want right away. And, uh, it's the journey. It's the journey of it. It's learning new tricks. You know, I wouldn't give up. And I'll remember to the day I die, the day I first landed a kickflip. And then the first time I landed a frontside flip and a 360 flip. And like, those were seminal moments in my life. And, uh, if, if you had just told me, Hey, you're a pro skateboarder now to missed all of those things, all those beautiful moments. And it's the same, same way that like in my recovery, the first time I realized I went to a baseball game and I realized I not only am I not craving beer right now, I don't have to drink anymore. It's not like don't drink. It's like, I don't fucking have to do that anymore. Like those little things, they, they blow your mind.
Speaker 1You know, you're like, I didn't think I was capable of this for so long. The only choice was to drink. Right. And then it's like, you finally have a choice to drink or not to drink.
Speaker 2That is crazy. That's still crazy to me. I see you have to give yourself so much credit sometimes. Um, because when people tell you, they're like, you're doing so great. A huge part of us just doesn't believe it. We're just like, why are you saying they want something? I thought we were friends. Why are you lying to me? And that's, I do that all the time. God, fucking, you know what they should put it like at the, at the beginning for new people, learn how to take compliments because the further you get in sobriety, get like buckle up because it's all compliments all the time. People, when you run into people and they say, what happened to you? Look at you right now. Like, God, I've run into people at the gym or just old friends. They used to party with her. Like, what the fuck happened? It's like, I got sober. Like, oh my God, you look so great. And you're just like, no, you look so great. Shut up. I got to go. Like, I can't take a compliment. Yeah. They must think I'm fat. So, you know,
Speaker 1they're just trying to make me feel bad. I have to deflect. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so true. I want to just, uh, circle back to that conditional surrender point. Cause it wasn't my, I wish I thought of that, but I heard it somewhere else. I'm taking a quick pause to just, oh yeah, go, go. I mean, yeah, you can, I'll probably put this in here to show how cool. No, yeah, don't. Sorry. I'm very addicted to nicotine. Yeah. It's a tough one, eh? The, the nicotine pouches.
Speaker 2I tried to quit. I was like, I'm going on the patches, doing the whole thing, uh, around new year's. And I went three months. I didn't vape. I didn't smoke. Um, I was just doing the gum and patches. And then I was like, all right, I'm ready. I went to cycle through the patches the day after I went off the patch. I had the first real craving for booze like over a year. Oh wow. For alcohol. Yeah. And it shook me so bad and I couldn't quite, and it was in a meeting. I was sitting in a meeting when it, when it hit me. And, uh, the next day it was still there. And the day after that, it was still there. And, uh, it was kind of like, I, I looked at it, like it was in a windstorm, like in, um, Oh, what's that? Like interstellar, the movie where it's all the dust storms and all the dust comes in. It's like a window open and all this dust came in and I had to, it took me a time to sweep it out. But I quickly, you know, told my sponsor about it and he was like, why are you quitting nicotine? I was like, no reason, like really no reason. And, and, uh, uh, since they, when he was like, well, I was like, should I go back on the patch? He's like, well, yeah. And I realized like, Oh my God, like my recovery is number one above anything, friends, family, everything. I am no good unless I'm sober. Uh, if the responsible thing for me to do is to start smoking again, Oh, life has been so good since then. And I'll try again in six months. Exactly. Maybe it's just not your time. You know why? Because I wasn't ready. I was rolling up to that fucking 10 set and I, I wasn't prepared. I wasn't prepared to do it. And I took that leap. And honestly, when, if we look at it, our recovery is like, if we drink, we die. That was the closest I've been to death in a little, in some time and quitting smoking almost killed me. Yeah.
Speaker 1That's going to be the tagline for this episode. Yeah. Get the thumbnail, man. That's actually a good idea. But to your point, it's like, yeah, you weren't ready yet. And, um, but what I liked about that story is you did the most important. And you told somebody about it. Yeah. And I always reiterate on here to, to do that because that's the biggest mistake I made, man, was again, back to that 10, I'm going to show you 90% of the truth, Tom, but not this little fucking fire back here. Yeah. I feel like drinking. I feel like drinking. I feel like drinking. I feel like drinking. I'm drunk. Yeah. Right. Because I'm not telling anyone about it. I'm not telling on myself. Um, so, I mean, that's the answer, man.
Speaker 2It's worth, and it's, it's so worth just deconstructing. Why? Why? What is this about? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? I'm really afraid to tell somebody about this. And for me, a big part of it was like, I had some shaky times after I started sponsoring people because, well, I'm fucking showing, I'm talking to these guys all the time. And then like, I feel like I should be above this. And so I would get a craving and I'd feel shame about it. And I had to be reminded, you're an alcoholic. Like, of course, you're thinking about booze. I was like a year and a half sober or something. Of course, it popped up once in a while. And it was just about telling my sponsor. Of course, I did have a sponsor that I switched, switched sponsors. But, um, I was afraid to tell, I, I had, I, it wasn't a good match. My first sponsor, because I didn't want to tell him things because of what, then he would really dig into it in the way that I wasn't responsive to. So I switched sponsors to Jason and, uh, do we bleep that? No, it's not. Just don't say his last name. Yeah. I love Jason. Jason's my boy. Jason. Uh, I have no problem telling him stuff. I say, this is what's fucking me up. Cause he's. He's super supportive. He's like, yeah, man, like this. That's great. You know? And, and you got to surround yourself with people who you were completely open and not, and you get addicted to, to being truthful. That's the thing. I got addicted to saying, I don't know. Oh, cause I, I would never say that until I got sober. And, uh, like now when I realized, like, I don't know anything like, Hey, what's that about? I say, I don't know. Let's figure it out. Instead of me saying, well, I know. And in your head, you're like, I don't know, but I hope they don't know that. I don't know. And then you just try and lie your way through fabricate a whole entire story. When I was early on, uh, my first sponsor, he said, okay. So you admit that you're, that you didn't know that you're wrong about how to get sober. I was like, yeah. He's like, now consider the option that you might be wrong about every decision you've ever made in your life. I was, I was livid. I was so angry. Oh, dare you. And I did what was the best thing. I sat with it. I sat with it for a bit and I actually considered it. And I was like, Oh fuck. And it's not like thinking like, Oh, maybe, maybe I was wrong. It's like, no, but you could have been, you could have been wrong about everything. And so if you're looking at it through that lens about like, you know, there's a really strong possibility that you've been wrong about a lot of things. It lets you off the hook. Freedom. It gives you freedom to find what the real answers. Are, you know, instead of like, uh, hiding under a pile of coats.
Speaker 1I love it. I'm going to hire her, hide under this pile of coats and hope it works itself out.
Speaker 2Oh, that's great. It's one of Conan O'Brien's biggest contributions to comic. That's amazing.
Speaker 1Um, let's, uh, I feel like, I feel like I just want to round the corner on the conditional surrender thing. Cause a lot of people might be listening and a lot. People might not care about it, but a lot of people might be listening. So you never explained it. So, cause that happens sometimes. My wife's like, you never explained what you were going to go into. And she doesn't sound like that. She sounds much more.
Speaker 2Also, I'm ADHD riddled, uh, interrupter.
Speaker 1So, and I love you for it. Yeah.
Speaker 2I think Trump calls it the weave.
Speaker 1I'm weaving. Don't ever change, man. Uh, but yeah, it's like, you know, I'll get, I'll surrender. Sure. I'll give up drinking, but on my terms, right. It's like, as long as I get. A, B and C I'll do what you say.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We're brats. Yeah. We want what we want. Yeah. Ego. And, and the hardest part I think is like, and it compartmentalization is so important to me and it's not like, okay, uh, uh, I don't want to consider not getting what I want or I didn't used to. It was like, yeah, but I had this thing in my head and I want that. So it's gotta be that way. And. It is really liberating saying, well, yeah, but what if it was just something different? Not better, not worse, just different, you know? And, and that helps me say, well, that doesn't sound so bad, you know? Like, okay. Uh, you want to get sober? You can't do this. Uh, but I want to do that. Like, well, what does your life look like if you don't do that? Like, oh, oh, I guess. Fine. I never even thought. I never even thought about it. Exactly. You know, it's. Uh, there are certain, you just gotta change perspectives and like getting sober. Once you get a little bit of time, you're able to take a step back and getting sober is the hardest thing. Cause your tunnel vision, you know, like you can't consider options. There are no, we are fucking something happens. We react like we're not, we're not us. Right. And, uh, and so we can't think of, we can't deviate. We can't deviate from what we think is right. And then therefore. No is right. You know, and once you get a bit of sob sobriety, you take that leap and you get a bit of sobriety. variety then and you start opening up to like and have people surrounding you saying saying asking questions like well what it what would that look like if if it wasn't exactly what you wanted and actually being receptive and saying oh well it might look like this and then them saying well is that that bad you say no it might actually be better yeah exactly because we can't we're alcoholics our alcoholic brains they're going to put us one direction we have to be surrounded by other people to help uh basically workshop workshop our lives with us yeah you know yeah just pivot yeah pivot perspective and it's hard as men it is hard as guys like our especially of our i think i'm like what it's six seven years older than you um what year's graduate graduate high school 2010 2010 yeah i'm nine years older than you yeah um growing up in the 80s and 90s it was it wasn't you'd like pull yourself up by your bootstraps it was figure it out yeah rub some dirt on it figure it out man stop bugging me with this figure it out yourself that's bosses were like that parents were like that everybody was like that you know and and now it's like that's why i love men's groups um uh being surrounded by by guys who are just like none of us know none of us know what we're doing you know but if we all put our dumb ass heads together we might be able to figure
Speaker 1this out come sit with us
Speaker 2and we'll try and figure it out together and we're gonna make fun of each other while we're doing this yeah there's gonna be a lot of ribbing and stuff and uh don't get over overly sensitive uh but also you can be as sensitive as you want and men's meetings yeah but at the end of the day we're
Speaker 1gonna come to a solution exactly yeah it's okay yeah uh let's end with this tom because uh i always end the podcast with this but if you could say something to someone struggling right now with alcoholism drug use doesn't know if they want to get sober thinking about it drinking starting to cause some problems in their life what would you say sir
Speaker 2oh that's a good question um i'd say if you know that you're going to need to get sober um i don't know this is tough i don't i try not to be preachy uh oh here we go it's not as hard as hard as i thought it was going to be i had put it on this pedestal this is gonna be the hardest thing i ever fucking did in my life um because i was trying to do it by myself and it it was it was clearly the hardest thing i'd failed all the time when i went to some meetings and was like i looked at it like everything else in my life if i don't know how to do something i asked somebody hey how do i do this you know cameras lighting skateboarding hockey fucking bikes anything i say hey that's cool how do i do that apply that to your sobriety if you don't know how to do that apply that to your sobriety if you don't know how to do something ask somebody and and just buy in uh it's scary as fuck man it is so scary at the beginning just like throwing yourself into it but like like anything else you're passionate about when you throw yourself into it you're like this is fucking fun man just throw yourself into sobriety like everything else every skill set that we have that we throw ourselves into and we get good at we're like fucking i'm proud of this but like not a skill set that's every skill set you know like there is a better version of you inside like jason said to me he's like it's recovery we're recovering ourselves we're recovering the old version of ourselves and there's a lot of shit on there and so it is a cliche you know reach out for help just fucking find someone who you associate with that looks like you're kind of person and who's sober and say hey i'm fucked this they'll say so was i come on in and then and then go and go for it you know like it's there's i was hopeless i was completely hopeless uh my last bender was the first time my life had committed i thought about committing suicide and um i thought that i had peaked i thought my life was over and very quickly after that like within months i was like holy shit i was wrong i so badly i could wish that i could go back to like that version of being sick and i was like i'm not version of being safe it's gonna be fun man just shut the fuck up get over yourself and uh and go out and fucking i don't know just switch your perspective that's basically it how many
Speaker 1things did i just cover i love it that's great i don't know what i'm gonna say but here's 10 things that i don't know what i'm saying thanks so much for coming down i love you tom i appreciate
Speaker 2you but i'll come back anytime yeah and we'll have you all right thanks for listening please
Speaker 3help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content the discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice addiction treatment or therapy if you or someone you know is struggling with addiction please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you are no longer alone you are not alone
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