12. Why 'Praying the Gay Away' Doesn't Work

Welcome to Hopecast, a podcast of Living Hope Ministries, a ministry that seeks to proclaim God's truth as we journey with those seeking sexual and relational wholeness through a more intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm Bonnie Scasta, the women's ministry director, and I'm joined today with Bruno Borges, our men's ministry director. Hey there. And Ricky Shilette, our executive director. Hey Bonnie. Ricky, what question are we going to answer today? Today, we're going to talk about a question that I often get asked by people who come in for the first time and talk to us. And that question is simply this, why is it that I have prayed and prayed and prayed for the struggle to go away and God hasn't taken the struggle away? Now why I think that question is so important is because so many times, the direction of the person's life is really determined by what they perceive as God's inability to remove a struggle that the Bible clearly says is something they shouldn't desire. And so they're like, okay, Ricky, I don't get it. I've been praying for 10 years that God would make me straight and God hasn't made me straight. And so as long as this struggle is here and I long as I've prayed about it, then ultimately either God must think it's okay because he hasn't taken it away or maybe God just doesn't love me because he hasn't taken it away or maybe God isn't the good God that you guys say that God is because he's not really answering the prayers and the commitments and the fasting and all the things that I've done. Now why don't you have you had folks ask you that same question? Oh yeah, absolutely. Just with I have been struggling with this since I was a little kid, a little girl and I've come to the Lord and I've asked him again and again, God please take these feelings. I have for other women a way like if you say this isn't good, this isn't of your will and going to be life giving, then why is it still there? So either God is failing to take these things away or I guess, yeah, I should just accept it and turn away from the Lord because he is condemning something that I continue to want but I can't stop wanting it unless he helps me stop wanting it. So then what do I do? Right. And I think it's one of those things that when you look at it on the surface, especially when you realize that most of the folks we deal with have been struggling with this or at least recognize this struggle with say same sex attraction or sexual addiction or any of that, they recognize it pretty early on in their life. And so as a young person dealing with this issue that, you know, you've heard this kind of thing isn't acceptable in the church. It's not the behavior that Christians should have. And so they're thinking, okay, well, God says this is wrong, I hear my preacher talk about it being wrong. I hear people say terrible things about it and people who are like that are bad things and even though that's not actually true, but that's sometimes unfortunately the church says or people say in the church. And so they think, well, I've prayed about this, but yet God hasn't taken it away. Now, it's interesting because we formulate that understanding of God at a really young age, at a time when I'm not sure we really understand our theology very well. Because the basic assumption in that request is that you deserve for God to take all temptation away from you and that somehow we can live a temptation free life. And the reality is we don't even see Jesus living a temptation free life because the Bible tells us that, you know, the devil took Jesus out into the wilderness and he was tempted for 40 days. I mean, it wasn't even just a one time thing, you know, it was a 40 day continual temptation that he was there with the devil. And he experienced those temptations and now he didn't sin. He didn't give in to the temptations, but he certainly struggled with those temptations. And I think the beautiful part to me about that is that we have, as the Bible says, a savior who is familiar with our weakness. And he's understanding of the kinds of struggles that you and I go through as human beings in this very fleshly, very real, very sensual, very devil centered in some ways world, you know. Well, I think it's also a misunderstanding of how God deals with temptation, that the only way God can deal with temptation, the only way He can deal with our sin struggle is to remove it. But that's just not what we see in Scripture. We see where Paul, and second Corinthians 12, said he had this thorn in his flesh, this thing that kept coming, kept bothering him and Christ's response was my grace is sufficient for you. And my power is perfected in your weakness. And ultimately, this was the thing that pushed Paul to look again and again to Christ. And to say, I can't do this on my own, I need something outside of myself. And our Christian life isn't that God takes all of these temptations and hard things away. And then I'm good and I don't need him anymore. That our walk with the Lord is about continuing to submit and surrender our life to him again and again. Regardless of if our struggle is continued with same sex attraction or with anger or with pride or with pornography or any other sin out there, I think there's also kind of a weird dichotomy that happens with this struggle in particular that we don't look at any other temptation in our life in this way. That's right. I'm like, God, you don't quit making me angry. So I must, it must be okay for me to be angry. You know, I still have the desire to act out sinfully in a heterosexual way. So that just must mean it's okay, but this is the thing that the enemy and the deceptiveness of our culture has come in and said, this is that one thing that's different than every other sin and different than other temptations that you experience. Yeah. And I think in kind of in two realms, it's different or perceived as different one is that historically, we've always treated sexual sin as a more grievous kind of sin and legitimately so from scripture, I think, you know, there's sexual sin happens to us in a different way than lying or stealing or those kind of things. It's a, it's a more, a more full orbed experience. And so there's more things involved in it. And so the Bible particularly, second Corinthians 6 talks specifically about how every other sin a man commits outside of his body, but sexual sin, we commit into our body. And so it defiles the temple of God. And so there's a seriousness to it. And unfortunately, I think the church has sometimes taken the particular kinds of sexual sins that majority doesn't struggle with and made it the more grievous of even the sexual sins. So you take things like, you know, homosexuality or transgenderism or pedophilia and then they, they, they take those and say, well, those sins are almost unforgivable. Right. Like, we don't think you really could pass that like that's really, really bad. And, and so they say really horrible things about that. So there's that, that aspect of, you know, there's this more grievous kind of thing. And then the other part is that we just simply don't want to talk about sex in the church. And so whatever perception of sin and sexual expression we have, so does God owe us this temptation for your life, obviously, no. Right. And I think that one of the realities of a continued temptation is the fact that it shows our absolute need for a savior. And I think the beautiful, beautiful part of the gospel is the reality that not, not that we live without any struggles in our life, but that the struggles we have can be combated and have been won by the power of the cross and what Jesus has done in our lives. And so this idea that yes, you're going to have a struggle, but the only solution to the struggle is Jesus. And then once you grab a hold of that solution and you say, wow, okay, I'm experiencing victory, it's not like there's no more temptation, there's no more struggle. No, the struggle is still there, which then keeps me dependent upon Jesus. That's one of the things that I often tell the guys who come through living hope, Ricky, is that, I mean, the reality of it is that we usually, we don't want to live a life that's uncomfortable. We just want to be comfortable all the time. And vocally, the question I ask guys are, okay, what if God simply did snap his fingers and took all of your temptation away? What is it that would bring you to him and to seek him every day? What would keep you in his presence every day? What would keep you dependent on him if you then became this perfect human being who had no struggle and was completely in your comfort zone the entire time? And I think I would be horribly arrogant and frightful and it would be awful to be around. Because that's our default, our sinful nature, that's what we default to. So I think that's an important part to keep in mind about any struggle. I know for me, I mean, one of the things I've shared openly is I really, though I wish in some ways that some of the things that happened in my life that caused me to struggle never happened. And I can do life over again without it. The reality is I don't know that I would want to do life without it now because I don't know that I would know Jesus the way that I know Jesus if I didn't have an ongoing struggle that was part of my life. Right. I think to it just reveals what do we really want? Do I really want the presence of the Lord and him to meet me day in and day out and to have him that is enough, or do I just want these uncomfortable feelings to go away? Or do I want people to look at my uncomfortable feelings and say they're not uncomfortable anymore, which is kind of where the culture is, where a lot of the things that historically Christians have said are sinful and fall outside of biblical orthodoxy, so to speak, are now considered to be things that are acceptable. And so suddenly the tension, which often drew people to Christ as a source of solution to their temptations and their sin, are now viewed as things that really aren't sinful anymore. And ultimately in our culture, when we get to the place where we've kind of dissolved or disallowed all the different kinds of expressions that are no longer sinful, then why is it that we would even need a Savior? Because we don't have any sin anymore. Right. Because everything's just fine. These feelings aren't a problem. I can just give in to these attractions and do what I want, what do I need him for? Yeah. So I think to me, God allows the temptations to continue in our life, not because He's cruel, but because He, in fact, is a loving God who knows that you and I need something in our life that's going to continue to push us toward Him. And in the process of that, as we win victory, and His He empowers us to win that victory, we then fall more deeply in love with Him and appreciate who He is and how He is and how merciful and gracious and kind He is to each of us. And then we see in Romans repeatedly, but particularly in Romans 8, we see where Paul tells us, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And so when we have trusted in Christ, when we believe in Him, we know that even in our stumbling, we're not going to be condemned by God. He's not looking at us surprised when we stumble. Sometimes I think people feel like when we sin, somehow God is like shocked that we've sinned. And I'm thinking, no, this is really why Jesus came, you know, I keep knew you're going to sin. And so it's important for us when we do sin, obviously to go to Him and to repent, but the idea that we're going to struggle with things and occasionally, hopefully we get better at it over time, but there are going to be times when we even fall to those sins. And I think Paul talks about that like in Romans 7 is just fascinating to me because here you see this seasoned apostle of the Lord who is the writer of a lot of our New Testament. And we see him really battling over his flesh and his spirit. And he talks about that in Romans 7. And he's like, you know, this constant battle that I'm having between my flesh and my sin, I want to do it, but sin sees as an opportunity and it comes upon me. And then I start sinning and he said, I don't really want to sin, but he said, I end up sinning because my flesh is evil and wicked. And you know, even though Paul's not being an anostic here where he's separating completely the sin and the spirit, he does realize that we really do kind of exist with these two realities. There's a spiritual aspect of us and a very fleshly aspect of us. And that flesh is battling against that spirit. And because of Christ, we're able to overcome those fleshly desires. I think to one of the parts about that is with this, I have the struggle, God's not taking it away, but he also won't let me act on that. So that must make him cruel reveals that we are thinking what we want and what will satisfy us is greater than the Lord himself, that God is, in a sense, withholding these affections that I feel are natural, that I feel like would satisfy this thing in my soul, and God doesn't take in a way these things that he calls are sinful, but he's withholding the fulfillment of those. And I think the reality is, do we believe as Christians that having every longing fulfilled is the greatest thing or do we believe having relationship with Jesus is the greatest thing. And having to redefine what is good, having to redefine like if I live with affections that aren't met, that God is good, he is not withholding because he gives us himself ultimately. Yeah. Yeah. The first Corinthians 15, 45 says that the first Adam became a living being, but the last Adam became a life-giving spirit, and sometimes I think, you know, we get so consumed in our living being self, that's what we are, you know, we're living beings. But the beautiful thing is when we become children of God, we get that life-giving spirit that then empowers us to live beyond just our living being. And that's hard sometimes to kind of get our thinking around, and we have this conversation all the time at Living Hope about how we think really impacts how we live. And again, part of this struggle process typically starts at a very young age, and so we're pretty limited in even how we think or what we think about those realities. And so as we get older, and like by the time folks usually come to us, they're in their, you know, 20s usually, or older, and they're sitting there going, "Wait a minute, I've been thinking like this for, you know, 10, 12, 15 years, and why is it that, you know, this isn't getting any different?" I'm like, "Well, a lot of it is you're not thinking about it any differently. You're thinking about it with that same little boy, little girl mind that you did when you first experienced these legitimate needs, but they were just kind of coming out in some illegitimate kinds of ways." And part of it, Ricky, is we typically look at our struggle and ask God to take care of it in order to fulfill our needs, but in reality, if we start thinking about any struggle as an opportunity to truly worship God, that truly changes our home mentality, because, you know, when you're able to face the things that we really struggle with in the face and look at it in the eye and say, "You know what, I really do desire you, I really do want to do this, but I choose Jesus instead." I mean, there is no greater act of worship than that. What's right? And that in itself is, to me, is, you know, just practice for eternity, you know, and there, you know, worship, yes, part of it is singing the song and raising our hands in church, but, you know, the true act of worship is when you choose God, because essential, that's what Adam and Eve did not do in the garden. They chose to fulfill their desire, so fulfill to know things that, you know, that was unknown to them and not to obey. So, if, when you look at it that way as, as temptation being present in our life as an opportunity to truly worship God, it really does change your mindset and the way that you react to it. Yeah. I mean, I've often told God and told guys rather and told, you know, try to preach this to myself, that every time I'm tempted, it's just that opportunity to surrender to Jesus, you know? So, so if you tell me you're tempted a lot, I'm like, "Wow, you ought to be like the most surrender person ever." You know, because you're constantly being reminded to render to Jesus, to render Jesus, and so you have an opportunity for that worship experience to happen. I've often told guys and they think I'm crazy when I say that I praise the Lord for my temptation, because it's what brings me to him every day, either as an act of, you know, gratitude, because I'm so grateful that he's helped me another day with this temptation, or as an act of, you know, asking for help, you know, Jesus, I need your strength here, and also as an act of worship, you know, in choosing him in those moments. So, it is, in a sense, if you look at it, it could be a positive thing. Nothing so. And I think that, you know, when we see in Scripture where it talks about as Christians, or where to come and die to self and live as Christ, that's what that surrender process looks like. We talked about a little bit before, Bruno, just that these are desires that we have and that we want, but we want Jesus more. So we're dying to the lesser thing, to get to the greater thing, and I think sometimes people I talk to, and even myself can get so caught up in the dying part, like I'm just losing something that we forget, but it's to gain life and abundant in Christ. And Paul makes that clear that, you know, the sin brings death, and Christ brings life. And so when we say that I'm really wanting to choose my sin over what I know to be truth, well, then what we're really saying is I really am choosing death over the life that Christ offers. And you know, sometimes when you're in the midst of death and you've been living there a long time, death seems more normal and more controllable and more reliable than the unknown that lies in the promised land of life. You know, I mean, I think that was the problem in Israel, wasn't it? I mean, they continued to say, well, you know, we kind of know what this is. We don't really want to, I mean, you say this promised land is good, but we never been there before. And so how do we cross the river? You know, how do we, how do we know it's going to be okay? Like, let's go back to the fires where we had what we knew, you know, and he's like, no, really, it's better. There's life in this, in this new reality, but you've got to go there. Right. Well, even when they were walking in the new land, you know, in the desert on their way there, they constantly looked back. Remember, we had we had food there. We had these things there. And that can happen too. We often romanticize looking back of like, this is what I think these things will offer, which scripture is clear that when we act on our sin, it gives birth to death, but we look back on it and say, but it feels like it would be life and we're deceived. Just like Adam and Eve were deceived and thinking this thing that they desire would bring life when instead it brought death and destruction and shame and separation from the, the one who really did have life for them. And by the only way, we, we know what that truth is and what that life is, is when we spend time in the Word of God on a regular basis to remind ourselves, because I think our inclinations are always going to be, let me do the thing that most quickly, most easily, most readily satisfies my flesh, because that is an immediate gratification. It's kind of like being outside and you're in the mud and what do you want to do? You want to come inside and take a shower and get clean. Oh, I want to get clean. That's going to make me feel good. Let's run that hot water. We don't want to do the hard work to live cleanly. We just want to get washed off and better in a hurry. And I think so that immediate gratification that we get from sin is so tantalizing. And so satisfying in the moment, but at ultimate, like you said, it just brings forth death. Right. And I think that's a greater struggle, even nowadays in the, in the world that we live today, because it's almost like we live in the iPhone or microwave age. You press a button. There's an app for everything and immediate gratification that happens. You know, there is an app for everything. You know, there isn't an app for this, y'all. It's slow and steady when it's a race. So so we're much more influenced by what the world has to say and and what we should do because that's what gives us control because essentially what we are is that we're fearful about God's promises because he doesn't give us all the details and he certainly does not give us control. And when we don't have control, we want to take control. And but then we don't rely on him and we don't depend on him to fulfill and be faithful to his promises, even though he is. And we've seen miracles. We've seen God do it the whole time, but we just always default to our sinful nature to want to take control and to essentially be above God. And to move out of that discomfort of struggle and of feeling things you don't want to feel and of having temptations that you don't want to have. And we just want we want the control to know, okay, I pray, and now it's gone. Instead of saying, no, every day, I have to seek the Lord to meet me to be enough in spite of my temptation and struggle. And the reality is, even if that particular temptation were to be eliminated, would there not be other temptations that would appear in our life more profoundly simply because we move the big obvious one out of the way. Probably so. Yeah, I think that's true for me. I mean, as I've conquered once in, I realized there are a whole lot of other sins at the door ready to pounce, you know, and I've got to deal with those and confess those and bring those to the Lord. Let me kind of bring this a little bit to a close. Let me, I'm going to read some out of this Roman seven just because it's just such a powerful passage to me. It says, so I find it to be that this law is at work in me when I want to do right evil lies close at hand. Verse 21, verse 7, chapter 7 rather. And then verse 22, "Fry delight in the law of God in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law in my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members and my flesh. Wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death?" Now, love that Paul asked that question, because it just gives me such comfort to know that this apostle who loves Jesus and is like the theologian and he's saying, man, who's going to deliver me from this body of death? And then he answers it, "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord." So then I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but in my flesh I serve the law of sin. For God in verse, chapter 8, verse 3, for God has done with the law weakened by the flesh could not do. By sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh and force in, he condemns in in the flesh in order that righteous requirements of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. And I love this, for those who live according to the flesh, that their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the spirit, that their minds on the things of the spirit. For to set your mind on the flesh is death, but to set your mind on the spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile toward God, does not submit to God's law. Indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. You however, if you believe in Jesus or not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if in fact the spirit of God dwells in you. Now I love that for a whole lot of reasons, but one of the things I love, love, love about it is that it talks about what we set our mind on is the thing that ultimately takes control. And it's so interesting to me to see how many times these same folks who come in and say, well, I've prayed and prayed and prayed, but God hadn't taken away. And then we start talking about their life and kind of what they do and how they do what they do. And inevitably they talk about, well, yeah, I mean, I still do fantasize about this or I still do look at pornography on a regular basis. I still do, you know, have an addiction to masturbation or I still do hook up with people or act out in random ways and whatnot. And so you start looking at it and I'm like, okay, you're asking God to take something away that you're actively participating in. And then even those who come along with us and say, okay, I want to be accountable for these things. I want these things to get out of my life, I want the spirit to control me. And they really start walking in that they do, they are successful at it for a while and they start to feel a sense of freedom. And then suddenly they get pulled back in by these temptations and they're like, well, what's going on and understand? Well, again, we start asking questions and what ends up happening is, and we had even just this week I had a conversation with a young man and I said, you know, okay, let me ask you a question. You're really struggling with this again and you seem to have victory over it before. What's changed? And he was like, well, I don't know. I mean, I'm trying to be in the word. I'm doing everything I can, you know, and everything seems to be fine. I said, well, what are you doing online? Like what kind of things online are you looking at? He's like, well, I'm not looking at anything. I have accountability software, you know, and all this. I put all these things in place to make sure I don't go where I'm not supposed to go. I was like, well, that's really good and that's admirable and, you know, you're, you know, it's a good dedication to do that. But then as we talked about it some more, I realized that really what was happening is though he was not looking at what would be considered, you know, hardcore porn because of all the advertisements and because of Facebook or Instagram or all these different things, he was pretty actively pursuing images that stimulated and aroused his fleshly passions. And as a result, though he wasn't looking at anything that would have technically qualified his pornography in our current market, it still were things that really triggered his own desires and passions. And so in a sense, even though he wasn't, quote, feeding that beast with the most explicit stuff, he was giving it a nice little appetizer that continued to make it hungrier and hungrier. And all of a sudden it was rearing its head and he was having his real sincere struggle with how do I overcome this. And I'm like, okay, well, if you feed something, it's going to grow. You know, and sure enough, he was feeding it. He's like, oh my gosh, never, and you know, like, how do you know that? I'm like, well, I don't know it. I just know humans. And you know, I'm not reading your mind. I'm just trying to tell you that this is what we all kind of do at some point. We, we try to live life on the edge of the cliff. And I said, we don't have to live life on the edge of the cliff with our toes hanging over, you know, kind of going, oh, look, I can get this close to sin and not really fall off the cliff. And I said, the bad part about that is if the wind blows real hard, and if you live in Texas, it does all the time. You know, it may blow you off the cliff. I was like, we can live in the middle of the field, you know, like in the middle of the way, way, way, way from the cliff. And then even when we stumble, it's easy to get back up because we've got ground all around us. But if you're on the edge of the cliff and you stumble, you're off the cliff. And next thing, you know, you're falling really hard on the reality is we are in a spiritual battle as well. And we have an enemy that is out to still kill and destroy. And he will not fight fair. And so there are times where I think people are doing all this steps, like really trying to take thoughts captive, really trying to be aware of even small things like that. And the enemy will just lob it up in front of them. Absolutely. And then it's nothing that they did, nothing that they were actively pursuing. But because we have a spiritual battle that the enemy hates when we're gaining freedom and hates when we are fighting our flesh, he can lob something up there that can cause some great struggle that people were like, no, I've been fighting my flesh. I have been seeking the Lord. And but I think the hope that you shared in that Roman seven is that we we can live in the spirit because of what Christ has done for us on their cross. And we have the the Holy Spirit within us and Christ within us that we have the power to overcome and to continue choosing him and to wrestle and to fall and get back up and to keep going. And that is that can be a level of freedom that doesn't keep us bound. Yeah. I mean that verse 19 says that very thing same that verse 10 rather says that thing that very same thing. It says it, but if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. If the spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his spirit who dwells in you. So, you know, God is going to give us life in these fleshly places to be able to overcome the sinful desires that we have. And yes, that doesn't mean that the temptations are going to be removed. And the removal of temptation is not evidence of your spirituality or of God's salvation in your life. If anything, it's probably evidence that you are no longer alive. Like you must be dead because you have no more temptation. I hate. You know, I tell folks all the time, and you know, if you don't want temptation in your life, what you're asking for is to be dead because that's the only time I know that we'll have no temptation. And I'm not quite ready for that. I mean, I'm excited about that. I'm not quite ready yet. So. Right. All right. So, so those folks out there who are having that question about, you know, man, I've prayed and prayed and prayed or sometimes, you know, our ministries get accused of being to pray the gay away ministry. And I don't know. At living hope, we've never made that declaration. We've never been to pray the gay away. Though we think you need to pray. Right. Absolutely. You know, it's not pray the gay away. That's certainly not what we do. But, but I do think that if that's your struggle, and you've you've questioned God and you've questioned where you are, because you've prayed and God hasn't moved, I would just say that the part of the journey of faith is trusting that God is who he says he is, even when he doesn't respond to your requests the way you want him to. And the beautiful thing about God is that most often he doesn't respond in the ways we expect. You know, he is his ways or not our ways. And his ways are beyond our ways. And so he's not that he's not hearing your prayer. I think he is hearing it and he's he's applauding your bravery to seek him. But he also wants to make sure that in the process of you seeking him when he answers the prayer, and I think he always does one way or another answer our prayers. You will recognize it as him and you will give him the glory and be willing to follow and submit and appreciate and be grateful for what he is and what he's doing in your life. And so I would just encourage those of you that are listening that that you know, if that's been your struggle and you're like, gosh, why doesn't God make a go away to know that you can change kind of the whole complexion of your struggle, the whole structure of how you look at your struggle by just saying, okay, maybe it's not going to go away and maybe God wants me to take this struggle and use it as a constant reminder of my need for dependence upon him. And so every time that temptation comes, I'm just going to say, Lord, all right, we need to talk. This is another opportunity for you and I to get together and have a conversation. You know, thank you, you know, for your goodness. Thank you that Jesus died for me, that he's empowered me with the spirit so that I can now live the life that you've called me to live and just be willing to be grateful for what Christ has done and what the gospel allows us to live in this world, you know, and how it allows us to live in this world. I think it can be a huge blessing. And I think ultimately, just reminding yourself like how he answered Paul that his grace is sufficient. That's right. And there's no condemnation, you know, for the temptation. And like I said, we're going to have those temptations. It's going to happen. They're going to be there. But Christ is going to give us the victory over the temptation. Amen. All right. Amen. Well, thanks, guys, for joining us on today's episode. If you have more questions or you're struggling with your sexuality or have a loved one that is struggling with these things, feel free to check out our website at livehope.org. We have articles and more information there that could be a benefit to you. We also have our online support forums for anyone across the world that might be struggling with their sexuality or have a friend or family member that is struggling. Those are available 24/7. They're free, confidential, and could be a safe place for you to get some support and encouragement in your relationship with Christ.