Why Pilates Needs More Men (And How to Make It Happen) with Pete Pallai

He said, "You're a real man." And I thought, "Okay, so real man can do a lot of push-ups and sit-ups and is much more mature." And he said, "No, no. A real man is those things. He's strong, he's masculine, but he's also vulnerable, and he's okay to show that vulnerability. And he's able to cry and to express and show emotion and doesn't feel compromised by doing so." Welcome to the CoConnect Podcast, where each week, starting with the core, we're going much deeper. We cut through the multitude of recommendations to help you achieve whole-person health. In this podcast, you'll hear from exceptional health experts, we'll explore the latest findings in women's health research, and when the study's foreshort, I'll offer my expertise. So who am I? I'm Mary and Tiffany, your host, a former political babe, to clinical Pilates educator. I have worked as a health policy advisor and as a movement therapist at the French Parliament and in clinics and fitness studios in Dubai. It's always been about health for me. I'm also a boy-mom, Adam who's seven and Julian who's four have been my greatest expendants through two very different childbirth and perinato experiences. I grew up in a small town in the south of France, so you'll probably notice that my accent changes depending on who I speak with. I try to model this necessity and vulnerability, a strength to my voice and to my community. So I hope you join this community. I hope this podcast becomes a practical portal of healing, growth and connected living for you. And last, I wholeheartedly hope you make this space your own. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the show we have been interrupted by Missiles. Where the lab? How we laugh about this. Yeah, we just get that the only thing we can do as we anything to do. Welcome to the show and I'm so happy to finally speak to you and that we manage to make it work. Hopefully there won't be any more interruptions today. Thank you for your patience. That's not a talk, thank you. We met our form fest in Dubai just before this started and we had a great time and it was so nice to meet so many educators. And because of the studio series, I wanted to sort of hear about your background, how you came to be my Pilates London and maybe even how you came to practice Pilates because you were an athlete in a previous life. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? Oh, nice, synchronized swimming. I'm kidding. I mean, it was a pure accident. I will say it's a pure accident. I am in my early years, I went out with a ballet dancer. I was in the end of the fall. I was that person. No concept what Pilates was dated a ballet dancer for nine years. So she would say a regular basis, I'm going off with Pilates and I think, yeah, yeah, la la, bit of abdominal work and that kind of, I didn't dismiss it as in like this. It's not at all interesting. I just didn't think about it. And I go off and do my heavy weights. And then one day I was coming out of the gym and I should say waddling out of the gym, having done a heavy session. And this person was standing in front of a room with lots of long beds in it and she said, would you like to try some reform of Pilates? I said, what's reform of Pilates? I've heard of it on the ground. She said, no, it's with machines. So I went in a long story short, saw the machine. I saw a few springs and I thought, yeah, no big deal. I'm a strong guy. And I think, you know, the rest, she brutalized me in three minutes and she had the right approach with me because I think she saw that that I wouldn't say ego, but not even dismissiveness, but she just saw where I was coming from and what would what I would relate to and what I would relate to at that point was being hit quite hard. That was my mentality and and that worked because the the captivation was immediate and I couldn't tell you, Mary, and I couldn't tell you in words what that meant. I couldn't tell you why. You know, I could do a lot of these things in other environments, but I didn't get it. Not until quite a bit later until I understood that, okay, this is that mind-body thing people talk about. Is that what it means? It means being present and it was very instantaneous. I was in a dark space in my life at that point, big business boss, a divorce and it's like it just just, it was that silver lining. It just came. I committed myself to it fully straight away, even as a pathetic mover, you know, touching my toes, it was more like touching my knees and not only did I need it mentally, I needed it physically. And that was that was really the long story short of how I how I how did you need it physically because again, you were an athlete before talk to us a little bit about that. I mean, specifically because I as one dimensional so my my sports dictated that I had power and strength. So I had these, what I now called deformities. So you know, shoulders back, etc. the traditional stuff and also quite a bit of not not only I was very lucky injury wise, but getting out of bed at that point in life, it was worse than it is now. Wow. I was already 48 when I started classes. Yeah, but you probably look 25 because now we know how you are and you look like your 45. Well, some of our friends asked for past what evidence for this. And it's very nice. But I think, no, look, I think any kind of stiffness movement is important. It's essential. And I think that's helped me through my life. But we have to adapt. We have to transition. And I think that was just coming at the right time for me. I needed a bit of a fix. I need something that would grab my attention and that I could work. I could fuse and weave into my my the training. And from that day forward, I saw this always as the underpinning to everything else I do. That's how I feel about it. You know, I feel pretty still, I feel passionate about it. And it's the machine that we are collectively in this world. You know, that we love what we do. And we can pay that forward. I think I wrote a LinkedIn post a few days ago saying that I felt really sorry at this time of war for people who didn't like their job because for me, like if I didn't have going to the studio, seeing people, the people who are staying here who need it, helping people, moving together, breathing together, being mindful together, I would not feel very hopeful about the the word in the generation we're raising next. And I would probably get very depressed. So I think at any time like you were saying divorce, personally, Pilates really helped me throw a breakdown. So it's always that connection between like you said, mind body, I think any crisis I can support you because of how it connects the dots, right? Well, I think you touched on a lot of salient points, you know, I was entering into world of empathy and nurturing. And that's something that I bring up a lot with my students if I run courses. I was surrounded by people who are sympathetic. I did not want counseling at that point. I was withdrawn, but you can have that quiet support, that quiet empathy. And I think that nurturing, that was really valuable at that point in my life. And I would say, you know, I don't want to ignore, overlook your current situation where you are. And it's a shocker and this is life. But I can see how this, what you're saying gives you purpose. Also, you're giving your clients, you're giving your people something, you know, they're looking off themselves in this very fraught and tense environment and fearful environment. And I think that's, that's, I think it's real power to what we do, and especially what you're doing here now, you know, that gives you purpose, it gives them something tangible to hold on to. Well, in that hour, I frequently will say things that I don't normally say. I'll be like, okay, stay with me, stay with the breath, stay with that very move. As if it were the first time you were doing it. Just stay in the here now. So that four hour is a reset because the issue is, and I find that's the problem when there's loud music and priorities. You know, it's still fun and it's still fitnessy and it still accomplishes many goals, but how is that different from a spin class? You know, like the beauty of Pilates in my view, especially these days is you get to tune in without feeling completely overwhelmed by the chatter. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. And I use similar analogy as to you. I always say because my background involves a lot of gym, but I can still go to the gym and I can be doing my bicep curls, but looking at what everyone else is doing, hearing the music thing, oh, that's a great tune. I'll shazam it. It can be very distracting, entirely different. And actually, if I take my practice here and that's what I do now, so if I'm in that environment, I will have these in. I'll have these in so I can kind of tune out what's around me. And it's something much softer. I do like background music, but you know, it's really not intrusive. So I think, yeah, it's an entirely different thing. Yeah. This is a connection business with oneself and with our people. Well, people as well. Yeah, that's why I love about what we do. Yeah. When did you move from practicing it intensely to go through that rough patch, just opening you on space? It's a big step. What were the baby steps in between? You know what? It was all quite quick. It was just taken by it. If I get something in my head, I will chase it. I'll set myself a target and objective. I'll go with it. And as I said at that stage in my life, I needed purpose. I needed direction. And it was just the right fit. So really literally that day I mentioned to you this person. and I'm eternally grateful to him. We're still good friends and she's worked with me since. She got me, she understood. And she said actually on that first session, why don't you think about teaching? And I'm actually, it wasn't a suppressed laugh, it was a loud laugh. I thought, "Look at me, I'm a monkey." Okay, sorry, no prejudice against monkeys, but, you know, I looked like that in the end before, I looked like that piece. And in my mind, still, I had this classic image of the ballerina. And so from that day forward, I signed up. I signed myself up mentally to this process, I guess. And at that point, I took on an anatomy and physiology diploma because I was told that's what I had to do first. I signed up to one of the big schools to comprehensive. There was not a big thought process. I just followed my gut with this. So you go to the class, you love it. You start in how long after were you doing that course? Very quickly. Very quickly. Are we talking weeks, months? Well, no, because I had to do the anatomy and physiology first. So at that point, I had to do that. And that was quite a few months. I was just attending classes. And I had this person who was inviting me to a studio. And I was seeing very clear, quick, tangible benefits. And something that was quite alien to me. Around that point, maybe a little bit after, I got involved with a little bit of an ambassador. I was invited into this other world where there are a lot of yogis. So we're exposed to lots of yoga events. And I thought, wow, this is challenging my body in very different ways and in healthy ways. And I believe that there's not something that we forge necessary through our work, our pursuits, our sports, this morphology, this our body makeup. You know, I could look at you, Maryann, and say, I want to be like you. I'm going to train real hard to look like you. But you work really hard to get to where you are. However, you also have your own body type, morphology, and genetic. So, you know, it doesn't work necessary to chase that picture all the time. There's no point in wanting to look like someone else. You can get inspired by someone, but your body type, no matter how hard you work, like your body type is your body type. If you're not jacked, you can lift weights. But if you stick to regular foods and nutritious foods, you are not going to look like you can look good in lean, but if you're lean, you're never going to look jacked. I don't know how to explain it to people. It's just no matter how much you train. And conversely, if you have the type that builds muscle with more ease, you will never be a tringum. And that's great because being a tringub is is overrated, really. So, it's so interesting. Sorry, interrupted you. No, no, I'll talk. I think with that word comes acceptance. And you're actually leaning on to a very good point, which is, and I use this again, when I talk about this a lot with my students, I say from day one, start to think now about where you fit into this world. And by that, I mean, you know, because we throw all these things around, fast or dynamic, clinical rehab, where do you see yourself, group, one to one, and start thinking about that, and start to find your voice from day one. So I throw them into the deep end in the first weekend. Okay, we take this exercise. I don't care about the details. In fact, I'm not even looking at the repertoire. I'm looking about how you are in front of people, how you are with people. And to bring you out of your shell, because the teaching I had left me, left me feeling that I need to be like everyone else in that group. Okay, so it didn't allow for my space, my approach, my character to do. Which isn't helpful because it's really unhelpful because if you're in authentic, you will never have clients. If you're not you, if, and I love that, my first teacher trainer said that, she was like, don't try and be someone else. No, that's my priority. And that's why I aligned to balance body because that filters down from the very top. You know, they say, be yourself. You know, be yourself. And I also feel that if you are yourself, consequently, you're more comfortable in your own skin. And then you will last a lot longer in this business and enjoy what you do rather than trying to live up to somebody's expectations. So it took me three years to figure that out. And the other word that I cycled back to because of what you said is acceptance, accepting that this is me, I'm not going to move like Marianne. I'm not going to do a teaser like this next person. However, it's the journey. So if I, if I chart where I started to where I am now, the improvement is, it's great, you know, and it's wonderful. And I feel good. So I think that's it. And when I started and you asked about the first studio, I deliberately have a very male logo. Most, most people probably listened to this, won't remember Charles Atlas. You know, when I was a youngster, it went even back beyond the 50s. And it was the image of a muscle man on the beach. You know, I'll get down and put it up, do some push ups to impress the girls. And you know, it's a guy holding a globe. And I thought I did research in 99 percent of studios around the world. The logo was a thin woman female dancer, which is alienating to men. And I'm not saying men, but I wanted to draw them in because that image showed strength and symmetry and alignment and all those things. And you know, strength is a part of our work. You ask me, Guy, and even now, do you do Pilateses? I'm not very flexible. That's the first answer. So I think people have missed the point, but that was one of my primary objectives to make it a little bit more approachable in a masculine way. Yeah. And in that way, you're modeling. I think that's, it's great that you tell your trainees, like, figure out who you want to be, what you want to specialize in, where you see yourself because you become not raw models, but the way we behave in our stories can really help the next person feel like, oh, this is a place for me. And I hear what you've said about the logo because I've felt this way about the aesthetics of the studio. It would have been so easy when I opened, I opened, when, so 16 months ago, it would have been very easy to put backlit mirrors in new aesthetics that is extremely feminine, in my view. I want the grand to come. I mean, we don't have a lot of elderly in Dubai, but we do have a few parents who live with with people my age. So I also wanted the husbands to sort their lower back pains here. So we're still working on that. But if you want to create a space that is for the family and for not just clinical, but how to integrate injuries and conditions and or, you know, just discomforts, regular pathologies over the 21st century, it has to be reflected in the space or in the logo that you're offering. Hugh, if you're interested in connection and I think your logo helps with that too and mine as well, you want your logo to reflect that. So I love what you've said. Not just, it's not just about acceptance, it's about, yeah, really embodying what you're offering. Well, I think that's correct. I mean, you create the environment and we have, we hold a lot of responsibility, don't we? So, you know, in terms of how we put across what we do to our clients, how we receive them, how we manage them, how we adjust to them, which is also important, stripping away our biases and, you know, the other way of the approachability. I've done your workshops and, you know, if we do pre-post-parten kind of work, by the way, we have to discuss the fact that I was the only going to buy. Yeah. Just in the nutshell, he attended a pelvic floor workshop at a festival in Dubai. There were 30 people in the room. He was the only man. That's what you're referring to. That's not referring to. But it was, it was all relevant and it was all, you know, really interesting and a great learning, but, but your delivery made it approachable. I didn't feel because I was a guy in there that it was any less relatable. No, no, no, not at all. And also bearing in mind, I do have a lot of female clients. And you have a pelvic floor. I do have a pelvic floor. What I'm getting to is the assumptions. Okay, the assumptions of where that's coming from, what's that form, what's that about, which audience. So maybe I'm also guilty that I'm not referencing that as much with male clients, you know. But I think it's a reminder and a refresher. So we have to continue our education, but also broaden our horizons that can have encompasses all the types, all the audiences that we have, male and female, etc. You know, if when I'm with pre-imposed needle clients, I'll mention the pelvic floor directly more, but when I am in a regular group class, a some of them have been impersonator with me. So they already know this stuff, but it will influence my class design, but I will not have to specify it. You know, I will not like, I know why I'm doing more media rotation there and why I'm providing that, what a loaded squat there. But they don't always have to know, I'm educating, of course, at specific times, but in a class and that's where possibly it was relevant to you because you have a pelvic floor. We were talking about pressure management, right? So we were talking about the fact, yeah, you have a pelvic floor. You would know if you didn't. You have a lower back, you have an abdominal wall and you have a diaphragm. It is relevant to you how to manage pressure. You might not experience it by having an episiode to me, but you will experience some sort of problems within that center, right? And so I think we still have a long way to go, but we'll get there. We'll get there. I think so. I mean, I think, you know, what we were talking about here is the inner unit, you know, what she referenced now is the inner unit and science involved in terms of core, you know, that general term, it's evolved and it's now very much a part of our training here, but is it a part of, you know, that again, I know it's another way going in other way. Is it a part of the trainings out there? There's a cluster of trainings. So, well, it is interesting where I get people who have come to me saying, and I, of course, name names as well. I've done this training, I've done a couple weekends online somewhere. There is no concept of this. This isn't about us bleating on because we've been in this business a long time and we know it all because I certainly don't. But there's a direct relevance to our work and a need to know basis. That's the phrase I use in my courses a lot. I say at the very beginning, I say, if I say need to know, write it down, earmark that page in the book because that's something you do need to know for your work. Not just your exam in your test, but you need to know. I make it quite clear how much are they here on the courses for just the repertoire, just the exercises. So maybe what I'm saying is contentious, but actually a lot of people think, well, I'm going to learn a bunch of exercises to teach. Yeah, that's fine. I'm not here to teach you 10 reps of footwork and think and straps and whatever. I've had a couple of variations. I will give you the essence of the exercise. You will not refine it in the weekend. You're with me. But what I can give you is the eye. I can give you the ability to identify details to make adjustments to put what you're teaching skills. All these things, which is a big part of our work. And if you think how broad a base set is, we cover a broad spectrum, that stuff that we've got to learn and know, I think that's underestimated. At least in a perinatal word, that's one of the few times obstetricians or doctors will send people away. So if that time they tell you to be fit. They send you to someone who in my specialty, right, doesn't understand core anatomy and doesn't understand pressure management. They are actually sending you to people who are going to make you worse and it damages that relationship where we're trying so hard to establish with healthcare practitioners, right? Same with, I don't know, shorter injuries or any sort of injuries that people, I feel like that's when doctors send people away, but they don't really know what we do. And we take that very seriously, but I'm concerned with that hype that we've been seeing. That's not what people are going to be getting. And so it's, yeah, that momentum is sort of lost. What do you think about that? I love what you're saying because again, it resonates is something that I say a lot. It's very interesting that we have osteo, physios, chiro's, specialists. I had a bulging disc years ago and I went to have an MRI and he said, okay, we need to consider how you go forward. Maybe it's injections, I'm not doing injections, maybe it's whatever. And this guy who is kind of a top of his field, but top of what field? Well, surgery. I agree. So he was leading us down that path. But he said, you should think about plastic. And I said, finally, if I've just started doing plastic however, there's a butt here, Mary Anne. The next time I went to see him, I said, so how long have you been doing plastic or when did you do it? He said, never done it. So you're referring people to plastic and you have no idea what it's about, you know, what's involved or just some basic understanding. And that much is ungrateful. They might send people out way. They might equally send the wrong people out way for the wrong reasons and not really getting it. But I think you've got to like I say to the students again, practice what you preach. You have to feel these exercises. You have to feel these movements. They have to be relatable to you before you can relate them to somebody else or talk about them with any depth. Well, I saw a post I think it was yesterday and I commented on it. Whereas I want to say in an unpopular opinion, but I don't think you should teach something you haven't tried like an exercise. If you haven't tried that exercise, don't teach it on bodies. I completely agree. Because just because you've watched it, it doesn't mean you know what it feels like and how to modify it and how by tweaking that hip that client is going to feel this side of the glutes, you know, you can only experience that if you go through it and it also helps with your creativity. So I don't know, would you agree with that? I do. As I said before, I say that all the time. I will caveat that a little bit by saying, let's say, I mean, I've just finished teaching reformer three years, weekends that's advanced. You know, there are a couple of exercises in there which are like, okay, not many people can go near. Yeah. So rocking on longbox is like, well, kind of get into position without, you know, 10 people helping you. I'm just kidding. But you know, or snake, but you can understand it and you can regress it. So there's always. Exactly. But there are a lot of exercises. I know this summer massage. I get so many people saying, I don't get it. I don't use it. I said, well, on there's some variations of starting massage that are really useful and accessible. You know, don't just miss it. You see the first image, which is the first image in a manual or a book, but actually when you get to variations, there are a couple and then that first image is a bit alienating or people don't understand it. You give up because you can't explain it. But there are a couple of variations that are very obvious and clear benefits to them. So I think you have to try them. And I do try to be honest, you know, when I do my post, okay, okay, I'm doing a teaser now. It does look too beautiful, but you know, considering where I started, it's a lot better. And it's very gratifying to be able to get into that rough position. Back extensions. And we talk about the approachability and the delivery. Part of that is honesty. One of the, that is, asks as educational instructors, being able to say, you know what, you're doing that better than I do. I can't get to that place at point. So well done. Fantastic. I think conversely, like when you're being humble and what you're good at, like for me, abs are a walk in the park. Like, despite my birth, despite my first birth was huge, dramatic, because you know, despite all of that, I, even postpartum, a roll down on the Cadillac, you know, I'm not going to get so many people to shake. I just, I enjoy it for these vinyl articulation, but whenever people, I'm showing things and people go like, oh, you make it look so easy. I say exactly the opposite. I'm like, yeah, but you know, when I do legs, I really, really struggle. Like, it's impossible for me to build legs. And I keep, you know, really struggles. So this is not just, of course, I worked, but this is my, this is what I've been gifted with, you know, and you have other things that I envy. So just don't give up and just focus on function and we'll get there. And I think it's really important to be approachable in both way. You can be inspiring and approachable, right? 100%. Yeah. And I think being approachable is inspiring. Yeah. If you think of it that way, you know, approachable, vulnerable, you know, I told this to a friend of my recently, my father, sadly, passed me for Christmas. Oh, yeah. You know, if I'm honest, I'm still grieving a lot, but I, I think I reflect on lots of things that he said. And in the context of a male and bearing in mind, you know, let's not forget that I'm still a minority in this world, a male in this world. When I was younger, he said this to me and it was a great compliment, but I didn't really see it fully as such at the time. He said, you're a real man. And I thought, okay, so real man can do a lot of push ups and sit ups and, you know, is mutual mature. And he said, no, no, real man is those things. He's strong and he's masculine, but he's also vulnerable. And he's okay to show that vulnerability and he's able to cry and to express and show emotion and doesn't feel compromised by doing so. Wow. That strength. And later on, I thought, okay, with hindsight, that was a really big compliment because if I'm honest, at that stage, I was still that guy that was giving giving sensitivity, but not really receiving or showing myself at that point. It was there, but I wasn't really showing it. And that was a bit of hypocrisy. So later on, I learned the real value in a long, winded way. I'm getting back to what you were saying is that, you know, giving of ourselves and giving of our vulnerabilities or weaknesses has a real power and resonance to it. I think it builds trust as well. You can't build trust if you're not showing who you are. It's very easy to say, listen to me, but people have to feel it. I love that. And we have such funny moments in, you know, sorry, I just popped into my head. But like, again, I mentioned this on course of the lot. Last year, I was teaching a group and I was doing thigh stretch. I don't know how you feel about thigh stretch, but it's one of my proudest sectors I've been. My angle was that to start with that, okay, not that. And I built it up and built it up and built it up. So I got a little bit cocky, not cocky, but it's thought, okay, I'm okay at this now. And I'm in the middle of the room with students either side of me demonstrating. And by the way, blah, blah, blah, talking. And I flipped backwards into the world. So that's me, the educator, living, and I got up and said, okay, I'll just show you what I'm not to do. So yeah, a little bit embarrassing, but you turn it on its head and it's like, well, actually know how easy is it to to talk a couple of little bit. Yeah, and to in your right, you're right. Well, the good thing is I'll never go. I was tried to. I'll never be good at it. I don't think I'll ever be. I had a lot of abductors injuries. So it's always been a rather vulnerable area. And I feel very challenged there when I reach back. But maybe that's something we can work on next time I see. Maybe you can help me get better at that. Yeah, we'll play with it for sure. I love it. And were there any challenges when you built the studio itself? So in how we lost that part of the conversation, but how did you have the studio? No, no, I just love what you said, especially when you mentioned your dad. Okay, so basically being my kind of gun host self and throwing myself into this thing, the first sitting on the tower and actually, you know, performing with the tower. The first machine I bought while I was a student was a Cadillac, a combo Cadillac, which kind of was a big commitment. But I had a room in my house, I put it in there and I had a chair and I thought, well, I was doing my then business. So in the evening, it's kind of as a hobby, the part-time thing. I had a few clients and that's how I started. But then after a while, I thought, I don't want this equipment in my home. I'm going to find a little room. So I looked around the area. I found a very big room and I didn't really have a conscious design like you know now who was saying, okay, I've got this space square footage or meterage and I'm going to buy six reformers and have this equipment and this is how I'm going to set it up. I just found this big room with my one little machine in the middle of it and I took it and I took it and I thought, okay, it was very spontaneous and I had space around it. I could do motors, I could do mat and I had my one machine. But pretty quickly from there, I built around that spontaneous decision, put in my other equipment and just carried on from that place. But it was, I must admit, considering my background, it wasn't so business-driven in terms of business plan. It was like, this is what I want to do. This is what I love and I'm just going for it. I'm just going with it. What was your background? What did you do before? A few different things. For many years I was in events. We had an events company. We did lots of hybrid events from the British Music Awards to, I know, all over London, the Palace's Royal Work, Formula One, did all that kind of stuff. For many, many years. But I was always doing my thoughts. It was very lucky I had very good understanding business partners when I was competing. I was able, they were there and I could go off and do competitions and do whatever I was doing. Very, very fortunate. Always very active within that framework. Then when I mentioned to you, I had the big business stuff. I got a recipe and probably did the only proper job. I called it proper job because it was working for somebody else. But I was invited into digital media, which I knew very little about, but I was given a little, and that took me out to your region, by the way. So I was going to the Middle East and Africa with that stuff. I had no interest in it. It was corporate. I had no interest. I struggled, but it was a rescue for me, materially. But coinciding with that was this building of my glasses like. Politis, yes. And then after that it was just. So you had that job that helped you maintain your lifestyle and at the same time build that practice in the evenings or whenever you, whenever you could, I guess, is that how I was working in the beginning? Pretty much. But when I got the big room, then I just said, okay, this is it. This is it. I'm doing it. And at that point, because I think of my personal experiences, it was the first time I life it wasn't purely monetary business driven, previously had been. This was very much what I needed. And the first time I handled it, I can say that I was motivated by the fact that clients felt the way they did. I'll try to help them with their sessions. That I was really. I was doing something good, and they felt better for it. And that was a more fulfilling than what we call the bottom line all the time. So it's not easy for many to monetize this business. If you think about where we have been, Marianne and us, we've had little studios. Now it's a booming business. So people are opening very grand studios, investing a lot of equipment. But in that time, it was a very different environment. So the scope to really monetize it wasn't so great. It was at least here until now, this might change things a bit. But the hype in Dubai was not really helpful to actual business owners, because it's not profitable and it doesn't matter because my wife is happy. There's a lot of that, and then there's a lot of money laundering. Let's just not kid ourselves. So in this region, I don't know about London, but I know here, it makes it really hard for you, because then teachers expect rates that are from non-profitable businesses. So it's a bit of a stranger situation in Dubai. I mean, at least the past few years, yeah, challenging. But now, war, who knows? Silver lining might be that those who were just speaking it will leave and will go back to more normal practice of Pilates, which is the healing kind, the transformative kind, the essential kind, you know? So how long has it been now since you opened? Well, I've been practicing, oh, sorry, teaching, that's a really good question. 15, 16 years, or 15 years. But I opened my own studio in 2012. And in my area in London, then two years ago, I moved up to this place where I am now. Well, you know? I'm in Patni itself, West London. But if you can see through there, there are windows at the other end of the studio which look out over the city, which are lovely. So I'm very lucky to have found this place to go while. And you know, people have said, are you going to open another studio? So I'm not motivated that way anymore. I, you know, it's not world domination for me. I like to contain this business. But what we are thriving and we're very fortunate is that and you have been to workshops and I can do workshops and I can, I'm also training centers. So that's become the big thing. Fortunately, it's very well with the, the mad transitions now that there's people that need training. And it takes us overseas. So, you know, very, very fortunate to still be here for this and to witness this. What comes out the other side, we don't know. Like you've said, you know, we don't know what's going to happen there. I think for me personally, it's more important that you're okay and you're safe and you come out of this and you can keep giving. And I think people are going to need what you're giving. I think after this trauma, people are going to need the depth of what you do. People need it now because a lot of my clients are Lebanese. So the reason I'm still open and think, yeah, if any Lebanese person is listening, thank you for being here. It's just, I have a number of people who cannot go home because it's a lot worse at home. To them, this is safer. And then it, because we have so many nationalities yet. So I, but I do agree that I mean, it's needed now and it will be needed later. And dropping down into the body is always, you know, I had a political career before and I, with what's going on, I don't completely exclude going back into politics at some point because we need female leaders. But what I see is what we're doing is extremely political by supporting how people relate to themselves into others. And in a diverse region like this, it is needed on that level as well to keep people talking, grounded and safe within, but also connected to others. So when I was mentioning civil aligning is because when we look at the future at the minute, we're like, oh, because the season in Dubai and the summer, we have a massive season. So in Europe is like, what August, that is dead. Yeah. When do you make no money? Yeah. September is June to September. So it's a very long summer. And then this year the kids had a six week break, almost five to six week break. So that was another summer. It's just that extreme seasonality or something that can be very scary. So that's why we look for positivity, you know, like, how am I going to make it through and keep helping people? Because you're right. It's not about being profitable. If we wanted to make money, we'd, we'd, a lot of money, we'd be doing something else, right? So how do people do what's so close to their hearts and their passionate about? So, you know, realistically, which is why so many people, so many of my students are coming saying, I work at the bank, I work with Google, I work with Facebook, I'm tired of that life I want to. Now there's this job, this potential. But look, I think see you, it's really important that you are looking at civil aligning because, you know, when things are so dark and gloomy, you do need to, it's just a reminder for us out here, but I've got people that I know that I reach out to and you have to remember in your region and the regions that are under attack. And you know, the stuff is still going on. You're still doing your work. They're still posting. It's very easy to forget what day to day, minute by minute environment you're living in, you know, what you're up against. And I, I am a believer in that. I do believe that, you know, when times are tough, whatever it is, something extreme like the situation you're in and conflict or personal conflict or divorce, you've got to keep, you've got to keep looking forward. You've got to keep moving. If you don't see it in your gut, I think this is when being a former athlete will always be or a regular Pilates practitioner, even if you're not a last thing, saves you. Yeah. You've got your discipline and you keep going and you don't question every single decision because otherwise I don't, I don't record this one cast today with you. Right. But I'm very grateful you have. I'm very grateful to have. I'm sure we'll record more, but before you go, because you've mentioned, I hadn't planned this, but if you have one second. I'll share with you. It was the poem that I read when my, after my dad passed away and I used to be in London a lot at that time. And it was called and it was, and I was lost and I didn't have a direction. And it, it just stays with me. It reminded me that he'd always be there. It is London, pale sunshine here and now already we are their immortality. They stir it into us and those who come after in other cities, other languages, made a Lord in his long silence. Remember all. of us. I really appreciate you thinking of that and also thank you for doing this and having me on and I'm very grateful to have met you. I'm so happy to have a friend Ava and Habib Ilina as a taller. Yeah, I'm very grateful. I'm really, really enjoyable speaking with you. Me too and I'm sure we'll do this again, hopefully in better circumstances. You go and enjoy our list where people can find you so you don't have to waste your time saying it now. Speak to you soon. Thanks, Norean. Have a great day. Good luck to live things. Stay safe. Yeah, I will. Bye. That's all. Thank you for joining me today. I started this podcast because I was tired of hearing women say I wish I'd known and I wanted to share preventative and healing strategies to help us all thrive. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review on this platform. Your support makes a huge difference and helps us reach more listeners who could benefit from this content. See you next time. , bye.