Why Patients Say No—Even When You Do Everything Right (And How to Fix It)

Welcome to The Expanded Light, the podcast for entrepreneurs who want seven figure businesses and a life they actually love. Hey, I'm Kyle, the systems and marketing guy who makes sure the vision actually happens. And I'm Danielle, the doctor turned CEO who built VRV from the ground up while raising babies and scaling to multi-seven figures. Together, we're showing you how to simplify, scale, and step into your CEO role without burning out. Think of it like a behind-the-scenes past, real stories, real strategies, and sometimes real husband and wife debates about what actually works. Let's dive in. You may be great at what you do. You may be the best chiropractor, practitioner, whatever it is. But when it comes to consults and your new patient process, if you are getting objections, like I need to think about it or I need to talk it over with my spouse, there is something happening in the day one conversation that is leading to a future objection. And so in this episode, we're going to be deep diving, what to do, and what not to do in that day one consult. Let's dive in. Welcome back to the expanded life. As always, we are so excited to be here. It is a hot and sweaty day here in Southern California, so always a good time. Sweaty and ready. Today we are going to be talking about sales, because let's face it, if you're in business, you need to know how to sell or you're not going to be able to keep your doors open. And I think that especially for healthcare providers, there is a bit of stickiness when it comes to how we feel about the word sales. We've seen this with our doctors, right, Kyle? It has a connotation, for sure. You went to school to become a practitioner, to become an expert, to become a doctor. You didn't go to school to become a salesperson. Right. But ultimately, to have a successful business, you do need to get people to say yes to care. Absolutely. And I think the first step to doing that is completely rewiring how we think about and believe sales to feel. The first thing that we need to do is completely change our mindset about sales and what selling actually means, because when we come from a place of like sales are bad or slimy or use car salesman or whatever connotation we put on it, like of course people aren't going to want to buy from us, right? If we don't feel good about it, we're not going to make people feel good about it. And so I think that reframe needs to happen. And this is something that we've really focused on training our doctors on because like almost everybody that I've met in healthcare profession has that feeling or that resistance. And so the way that we can reframe this is understanding that selling is not a bad thing. Selling is actually a really good thing because when you're selling somebody something, and I'm not talking about something that they don't need, something that is going to hurt them, you know, something that's bad, right? I'm talking about selling them your care. The thing that you do, the thing that you're really good at to get the outcome that they want, sales is connecting somebody in front of you with a solution to a problem that they have. Let me repeat that, sales is connecting somebody to a solution that they need. So you selling somebody something is actually doing them a service. You are helping people by selling to them when they need the thing that you offer. And I tell my doctors this all the time, if somebody that comes in, sits on your table, it's the care that you recommend, is their life going to be better? The answer is almost always a resounding yes. And if that is the case, then you owe it to that person to make that sale, to get them the care plan that's going to make their life better. So we're going to dive in a little bit about kind of the framework and the process that we use to sell people on the care that they need. And it's really a two-step framework and Danielle already alluded to it, but essentially we're connecting people to the solution for their problem. So in order to be successful at that, we have to not only identify their problem. We need to understand everything that happens in their world. We need to understand their entire reality from their perspective. I can sit here in telepatient all the ways under the sun, why they need chiropractic care. But unless they come to that conclusion themselves, they are never going to buy for me or trust me or see me as kind of a partner and move forward in this process. The way we do that is by asking questions, not telling asking questions. And this is where question and asking health history and things like that from a consultation standpoint can get intertwined with what you were taught in school, because you are ruling out red flags a lot of times. You're diagnosing a problem, a pain point, and you're ruling out red flags, making sure that it's safe to deliver the care and you have your doctor hat on. That's great. You still need to do that. What we're saying is not to do that. We also need to add in other types of questions that are not clinical, right? If I'm need a knee with someone, I really want to understand what's going on with them. I'm first going to just ask what prompted you to come in today. And you have some intake paperwork and you probably have a good idea. But ultimately, think of the steps and the journey that got them to your office up until that point. They have been experienced some problem for probably a period of time. It didn't just happen, likely unless it's like debilitating pain or something. If it's nagging, if it's, you know, whatever, it's happening for some time. Then ultimately, they're like, man, this thing's starting to impact my life. And that motivates them to take the next step, which is to find how they're going to solve said problem. Is it physical therapy? Is it massage? Is it chiropractic? What are my options here? Because I don't even know really what's happening. I just kind of had this pain. Who's going to, who's the best service for me? Then after researching that, maybe I decide on chiropractic. Then I'm researching, well, which chiropractor is the right one for me? They go through all that. They go on your website. They go to your front desk. They ask all these questions. Then they come in and then they do your intake paperwork, and then here you are. So all of that time has happened. And now we want to make sure that we can, you know, eloquently figure out what is going on in their world to prompted them to take that step. Right. And I think that most doctors, practitioners, service providers that we meet and speak with, our clients included, think that I just need to figure out what's wrong enough to deliver my service. What's wrong in the moment? Exactly. What's wrong enough? Well, for chiropractors, it's like, okay, let's figure out, you know, OPP, QRST, let's get our soap. Like, let's, let's do all of these foundational things that we learn in school to make sure that we can fill out our chart note at that. We can appropriately adjust the right areas. Like, great. That's step one. Like Kyle said, rule out the red flags, figure out what is happening, you know, so that you can effectively, you know, diagnose or make sure that what is sitting on your table is something that's appropriate for you to be taken care of. But we need to dig deeper than that, and asking the right questions is really going to help us not just understand what's happening from a health perspective, from a medical perspective, if you will. It's going to help us understand why this person cares enough about making changes and finding a solution, which will help them connect with the why and like the commitment to getting better and following through with your solution. So let's talk about this. There's obviously your situational based questions. What brings you in? What's going on? Oh, I have back pain. Sorry to hear that, right? We always tell our doctors, lead with empathy. We are dealing with kind of a vulnerable population, parents of young children or pregnant moms. And like there's some time, a lot of emotion around these conversations. We always want to lead with empathy, use those transitional type of phrases like I'm so sorry to hear that. You know, that sounds super frustrating. And then we keep the conversation going. Yeah, be a human first. Yeah. Right? Don't just be a clinical robot and, you know, or a sales robot. Be a human, connect with them. That will pay dividends in the long run. But then I want to know, what have you tried? What makes it feel better? Scale of one to 10, where are you today? Scale of one to 10, where were you two months ago? Right? And I want to try to map the difference out. Oh, let's say I have a back pain. Okay. Scale of one to 10, where are you out today? I'm out of seven. Okay. A month ago, where were you? I'm out of three. But then I might say, oh shit, so that pain has more than doubled in a month. Is that correct? Yes. And so those are the, that's what I mean by like asking better questions gets me as the prospects or, you know, patients to come to the conclusion themselves. Like that's a really good example of like, oh wow, I didn't really realize it. But it's been a month and it's probably more than doubled. And I just kind of openly said that as I reflected and evaluated it because I'm busy. And I am a parent and I, you know, have a job and whatever. We don't always think about this nagging or, you know, increasing neck pain back pain in this example. So those are the types of situational types of questions. Then I'm going to take it one step deeper. How is this affecting you right now? Where in your life are you noticing the biggest impact? Is it with your, you know, relationships with your kids? Is it your job? Is it, you know, hobbies, you know, are you able to golf or go to the gym or do whatever it is? Is it impacting your sleep? Where is that really impacting your day to day? And then from there, it's, it's really about kind of painting a picture. I know the pain point. I know what they've tried. I know how long this is happening. I know how severe it is. I know where and how it's impacting their children or their life as an example, their relationship with their children. I'm not able to play it by toddler or pick my three year old up who always wants to be picked up even though he weighs 67 pounds, not really. I could take it one step deeper. So you're not able to play with your toddler. So what happens? Or what does that mean then? What are your evenings look like if you're not able to play with them? Well, he gets frustrated and he gets upset and he doesn't understand why, you know, Daddy can't get on the floor and play Legos with him. Man, that sounds super frustrating. So back pain is connected to distressed relationship with toddler, yes, right? And so we're kind of laying the foundation and painting the picture of like, oh, all of these downstream effects are actually affected by this thing where I just thought I had back pain and was like, oh, I'm kind of in pain, right? And that's where most doctors stop. And pause there because I think most patients are coming in having that perspective. It's like one in 10 that are going to come in and be like, oh, yeah, I have this issue that leads to this thing that causes me this and I really want to get out of it. So I can get my life back. No, most people are coming in and they're saying, yeah, I've got neck pain and it's kind of annoying and, you know, but I like get through my day. I can't look left, but that's okay. I just look right. Yeah, it's fine. Like Derek Zoolander. Exactly. No, or even, you know, with, with babies and kids, it's like, well, my baby has colic. So I want them to stop crying so much. And it's like, okay. And then what, right? Like we, we really want to help people understand the complexity of the, the challenges that they're facing because they might feel it. They might feel the overwhelm. They might feel how impacted their life is, but they can't necessarily articulate it or understand where it's coming from. So you are helping them to understand the impact of these things on their lives. And again, like we're human. We're busy. We want to try to cover things up and just move on with our day. But like that doesn't serve us because it's going to get worse and worse and worse and worse. And then that person is not going to be able to function at all. And so it's our job to help uncover those areas of their life that are being impacted and the depth to which they're being impacted to help motivate them to make change. Exactly. Exactly. There's some key phrases that, you know, will elicit a further response from a patient as you're talking with them because look, if someone is arms crossed and they're just kind of like, yup, given you short answers, it can be like pulling teeth. I get that. Unfortunately, we still need to go through this process because we, the objections you get on a day two or when you make your care plan or whatever financial pitch that you're making, you can get ahead of those objections in the day one in this conversation by opening up healing back the onion, getting them to understand the real life impact of this problem. That leads to a better solution selling on the back end of why you need my service. Why I'm the best fit for you specifically. So on and so forth. I always, you know, coach our doctors of you, like, can you help me understand like you said this? Can you help me understand a little bit more about what that means? Boom. Now they're opening. I'm giving you a short answer and then you just got me to kind of feel back the onion, the layer a little bit on the onion. You mentioned this. Tell me more about that, right? We don't always need to, you know, come with a new question, but I can kind of double clip into what people say because I may say I have this back pain and a certain bothering. Okay. You say bothering me. Like, what does that mean exactly? Well, you know, it's starting to impact my ability to just my day to day. Okay. Like what? Well, you know, and you just kind of keep pushing, not pushing, but double clicking into everything at the end of whatever they're giving you and you can get three, four, five levels deep without them kind of realizing that, you know, again, that this problem is that big of an issue. So I would definitely do that. The next type of question, I think one of our doctors calls it being professionally nosy. Yes. That is a good way to do it. You are professionally nosy and it's definitely not a bad thing, right? We need to be nosy because we need to understand from their perspective in their world, what does life actually look like? From there, the next types of questions that we want to try to ask are like, what happens if this goes unsolved? Because now what we're doing is future pacing and we're doing this in a negative light. Next, we'll show it in a positive light. But for right now is how would life feel because buying is an emotional process, not logical. Stats and data only get you so far, right? How would it feel if this back pain went, you know, unsolved for the next six months? And I want them to try to talk, right? Because I know you just told me that it had more than doubled in pain in the last month. So if we do nothing, dude, you're going to be debilitating pain. You may not be able to work. You may have to take time off, you get disability, a leave of absence, whatever it is. And so all those thoughts kind of going in the head of like, oh, I didn't really think six months down the road or even a month down the road. And so what this does is it creates urgency. Because again, going back to the research that they've done, I have a pain. It's now bothering me enough that I'm going to research what it is. And then I'm going to research how to fix it. I've settled on chiropractic, I've settled on fervor of chiropractic. The last question that I need to answer is why is now the right time to solve this problem? And this is challenging. This is when if we don't answer this or get this solved, when you present your care plan or financial options, they say I need to think about it. They say I need to talk it over with my spouse. They're questioning if now is the right time, eh, maybe I can make an appointment with my medical doctor, my GP in the next two weeks to use my insurance, right? And we haven't done a good enough job in the day one to be able to help them understand that why now is the right time. The flip side of that is going to be the positive. What does life look like if we were to solve this and we're working all of our, you know, our way back. You have a better relationship with your child. You can go back to playing golf again. You can do this again, whatever it is that they say in the conversation. And so we're able to kind of flip this, the coin there and help them understand of what you call future pacing, very shortly, you know, after completing care, whatever. But this, this is the ultimate end goal that we are working towards in partnership. So now I have all of this information from them that I'm then able to tie back to my solution at a day two. And that's, you know, a conversation for another day. But if I'm just going, what's that OPQ, YMCA, whatever, you know, chiropractic, you're just rolling out the red flags. And then I just go straight into why chiropractic is great. And here's why you need it. It's like, okay, you didn't take the time. I don't really understand my own problem. You don't understand my problem and how it's really impacting me. You didn't ask, I need to think about it or maybe I buy, maybe I don't. And I think that that's a really big distinction is if we can make this process about them and not about us, we're going to have a lot higher success in being able to convert them to the care that they need. So like Kyle said, we want to make sure that we are staying away from yes or no questions because people are going to naturally just kind of close off and give us the most basic information. If we can ask the right questions, we can open up those loops, we can go deeper. And that's exactly what we want to do. The clinical stuff is important, like, especially, you know, if you're a dog, your practitioner, like, do all of your clinical stuff and then go deeper. And then like Kyle saying, we really want to make sure that we are highlighting the cost of an action, right? What could possibly happen if we don't address this now? And then help them future pace and paint the picture of what life could be like if they do go down the path of solving the problem with you. And I think if you can accomplish all of that in your initial consultation process, you're set up really, really well to make the recommendation and have it accepted, whether it's at the end of your day one or in your day two process. A good exercise to try to practice this with anyone. It could be a family member. It doesn't need to be in a medical or a sales type of thing. But like, hey, your wife comes home from work. How was your day? We want to ask what or how questions those elicit a response? How was your day? What did you do today? I went to the park. How was that, right? And you can just get into building this muscle to get people that the hardest conversations are the ones that are not willing to give you a lot of information. And that's really where this skill set is going to shine. If someone comes in and just word vomits all over you, great. I'm getting all the information I need. I don't want to ask two questions and you're just giving me everything. But it's really those that don't think they need care. They're skeptical whatever it is and just try practicing this with family members, friends, kids. How was your day? What did you do? How was that? What did you do next? And try going back and forth as long as you can. What or how questions? Yeah. And not having a yes or no. We did this exercise with one of our recent docs when she came on in her training. And I think I failed right away, which is hilarious. You did? But she got really frustrated. Yeah. She did get super frustrated. It's hard. This is a really hard thing. I like that for Kyle and myself, we kind of do some of these things naturally and the more we've learned about the sales process through his background in sales and my background and growing and developing this business, we realized we've done a lot of things right naturally. And so then trying to work backwards and train it can be a really interesting process because it doesn't come natural to everybody. But I think the thing is if you can focus on asking the right kind of questions, again, you make people feel, first of all, safe and heard because you're treating them like human and you're helping them to understand the deeper needs and wants and desires and problems that they're facing and that are on their heart. So it really is worth, you know, reflecting on the questions that you're asking and making an effort to ask better ones. Final thought there before we move on, it is uncomfortable. Let's not skip over this part. When you're in a day one and you're digging deeper and you're really pushing and you're being professionally nosy, you will feel an energetic type of like, I always feel it like above the, above the shoulders. It's palpable because it's my ego or that's my anxiety saying, oh, maybe that's too much. Oh, maybe I, you know, I shouldn't have asked that or I shouldn't have said it that way or and it's my own brain trying to get in my way, but you have to sit in the uncomfortable to get the answer that we want, right? So just know that at first it is going to feel weird and sticky as Danielle says or uncomfortable. That means that you're doing a good job digging deeper. If you don't feel that or you start to feel that and then transition and go into, here's like chiropractic. It's great. Just know that like you should have gone deeper there into that, into that level. Once you're in it, try it. You'll feel it. I know for sure. What we told our doc early on, our first doc is you have permission to ask more questions. You have permission to go deeper. And I think sometimes just giving yourself a receiving that permission really can change everything because it doesn't have to feel good the whole time. Like again, we are here to do some serious work. You guys were here to change lives. And so in order to do that, sometimes you have to step into the uncomfortable. And I want to transition now because the questions that we ask and the words that we actually say and put on paper and whatever, like that all really matters. But it's not just the words, it is also how we say them and the mindset. And I think we've talked about the mindset a lot here. But one thing that I think really needs to be set out loud is that your confidence and your belief in everything that you're saying and asking is going to come across. Now like Kyle said, in the beginning, if you're not used to asking questions like this, it might be uncomfortable. But that's okay. If you just show up and like fake it till you make it and you ask those questions with authority, the person that's being asked those questions is going to feel safe and they're going to reciprocate. They're going to give you back the things that you're asking. If you come in and you're trying to ask questions and what, how did that make you feel? And you know, well, what would your life look like if things were different? That person's going to be like, why are you asking me like, stand on my business, right? But if I come in and I'm like, Hey, Kyle, you know, you shared with me that you got this low back pain, that you're not able to get off, get on the floor and play with your son, Rusty, you know, Legos at night and he's starting to get frustrated and, you know, like what happens if we don't fix this back pain now? Like, what do you think is that looks like? You know, and again, I'm asking in a way that is very interested. I am, I am invested in the answer to this question. I am confident in asking Kyle this question. He's going to probably then think about it, reflect on it and give me an answer back that's true and authentic, rather than just kind of appeasing me with an answer. And so I think the way that we show up in these conversations really, really matters. And taking a minute before you go into a consultation, taking a minute before you go into a day two, if you do a day two, to just like ground yourself and drop in to this persona to this person that is confident makes a really big difference. Your energy will come across and will impact the response that you get. So I think having that certainty is so, so, so important. And the one way that we can also communicate certainty is in our tonality. Something that I see with clients and that we've seen in almost all of our doctors is going into these conversations. We have either this really happy upbeat tone or we ask questions on the up, the tonality ends on an uptone. So it's like, and how does that make you feel, you know, and it's like, what is that like? What is that like? What is that debilitating back pain? And I think the thing is like, we all have a little bit of people. Please are in us. You know, we're trying to be like really nice and happy and bubbly and we're a little bit uncertain. So we're going to end with the question almost. And so something that we coach on often is ending on a down tone, right, dropping your voice down a little bit lower to again, come across with that certainty with that clarity, really can make a difference. So you hear me talking. This is my normal voice. This is how I talk on a podcast. But when I'm in with somebody in a day one or I'm in with somebody on a day two, things shift, I slow down in the way that I talk. My voice gets a little bit lower and I always end on a down tone because that anchors in my I just got chills. That anchors in how serious I am, right, because we have to take these things seriously, right? If we're going to expect somebody to commit time and energy and resources to fix a problem, we need to show up with that same commitment. So I think using those things, slowing down, dropping your tone and ending on a down tone are really, really powerful small shifts that you can make that will make you sound more confident, like instantly. Yeah. And just to be clear, like there is a patient experience aspect to this. We are warm and bubbly when we're first meeting someone, hey, thanks so much for coming in. Oh my God. It's great to meet you. And then as soon as we dive into it, then we drop in. Right. So tell me about you. I see in your intake paperwork, you're struggling with back pain. That sounds terrible. And then we shift. You could, but we don't want to stay up and like, oh my God, you have back pain. Oh, so many people in here have back pain too. What's going on? Like, it's just, you know, it doesn't have the same impact. It doesn't have the same authority when we do have that financial conversation or the care recommendation. We need to be the expert in the room. We need to be the doctor in the room and by we, I mean you, because I'm not one. But. Dr. Kyle. Dr. Make it up as he goes. We need to be able to shift and drop in and then pull back out. Okay. Great. So here's what we're going to do next steps, right? And you kind of build rapport. They feel like they can trust you. And then we don't always have to live in this, I don't know, heavy type of conversation. Totally. Yeah. It doesn't need to be, you know, doom and gloom the whole time. That's not even what I'm saying. But I do think that the tonality matters and I see this even more so with new grads than I do with anybody else is this unsheredness, right, comes across in that tone. So even in the moments when you're unsure, I think changing your tone and dropping in can really help you gain that confidence yourself and have that confidence come across to the person that's sitting in front of you. Agreed. The next thing that we want to make sure all of our doctors are doing in a day one consultation is that transition and making it as natural as possible from, you know, doing the deep dive into the patient's world and then that transition into educating and here's a little bit of how we operate and, you know, what chiropractic is and that kind of education piece. So it's a concept called labeling and I'm basically just going to read through my notes, but it's a very important, powerful psychological step that often gets overlooked. So Kyle, I know, okay, just to recap everything that we've said, I appreciate you sharing all of that with me. I know that, you know, there was a few questions and he took the time to go through the intake paperwork, which was pretty lengthy as well, but this helps me, you know, put together the best plan of care and course of action. Just so I understand everything completely that we've chat about here today, you're struggling with low back pain. It has more than doubled in severity over the last month. It's impacting your relationship with your child and making night time in the bedtime routine really stressful because he's getting frustrated and during tantrums before bed, leading to, you know, more stress. You're having trouble sleeping because of that and ultimately life will continue to be stressful if we do nothing. And then if we are able to solve this, you're able to get back to working out golfing, doing whatever it is that we discuss in the day one. Do I have anything, everything they're correct, Lear, would you add anything that I may have missed? No, everything is there, right? And so what I'm labeling is I'm basically summarizing everything that I've learned. Is that correct? Yes. I want the patient to agree that that is their whole world. That's their reality and I have it summarized completely. That's how we build rapport. They feel seen. They feel heard. They feel that you are trustworthy. You don't build rapport of like, so what do you watch on Netflix? You know, some sports team or whatever. Like how we really build rapport in these types of conversations is making patients feel heard and seen in that again, that they can trust you to solve that problem. There are other microbiands along the way that we, you know, want to try to get as we are then shifting into our conversation about who we are and our differentiators. And probably in a future episode, we'll talk about our unique mechanism or selling proposition and then how that is so important in this initial indoctrination of, you know, our practice and how we do things and how we're unique. Danielle always asks a question and tries to be crazy. Does that make sense? So she'll say something here ever we do this and here we're unique in whatever. Everyone always is going to say yes and that's my biggest gripe with it is because no one wants to feel dumb. They're always going to say, yep, yep, yep, psychologically, I get it because you're getting them to say yes, these little micro yeses along the way. I like to pause with a what question, what questions do you have so far? I'll pause right there. What questions do you have? Listen. Because I want them to kind of open up and give me any uncertainty that doesn't become an objection later on. I heard from a sales guru that an objection is an infected question that did not get answered. So my goal is to try to answer all any question that pops up in their mind as I'm going through, you know, my pitch, my transition, our level of care, the exam, whatever it is. I want to try to nip those in the bud, but you said, listen, listen, Kyle's always right. No. Daniel's always right. That's true. I am always right. See what you say. It's how you said it. See what I did. Ironic that you did the tonality piece. She's always. It always matters. Always getting on me about my tone, which is always perfect. Anyways, no, but when we get people to say yes to us multiple times through this process, they get used to saying yes to us. So having those microbians gets them to a place where they're more likely to say yes, that being said, I am not trying to make people feel dumb. And I don't think that people feel dumb when you ask that question. And you can also follow up that question with, do you have any question? I didn't say people feel dumb. People don't want to feel dumb. So they'll always say yes. Yes. Like, I'm never going to say, does that make sense? Do you have any other questions about that? It's not like I'm only asking that question ever, but I think it's a useful question. And sometimes people are like, no, I'm not sure. And to give you context, this is actually not usually a day one question that I ask. It's a day two question. And it's usually when we're going over our nervous system scans, I have a very bad tendency to over-explain things. I go a little bit deeper into the science than maybe I need to. And so I often will pause along the way. Any questions about that? The way that I said that was an uptone, don't say it that way. Right. And people are usually like, yeah, that totally makes sense. Or they're like, um, and I'm like, okay, let me dig a little deeper there. Let me explain that a little bit better. So by the way that they answer the tone matters, I know whether or not I've explained it well and I'm able to go back around and answer on answered questions. But I think that there are multiple ways that you can do this. Again, when we've asked the right questions, we use the correct tone. We can transition into our value proposition. What makes us special? Why we're different? How we can help them in a way that nobody else has or would be able to. And then we're able to answer any unanswered questions at our practice. We like to deliver the service on day one. So somebody gets a quick win. They go home. They think about it. They come back and then we're ready to have that sales conversation. Again, if you set day one up well, day two is going to be easy. If you don't go deeper on day one, if you don't drop in and make somebody trust you feel confident, feel important in your office or in your business, then by the time they come back for that sales conversation, it's going to be a lot harder to convince them. And you're going to have to convince them to buy the thing that you're offering. But again, if you've done a really good job on day one, creating value and making them feel really special and having a spot in your business, then it's going to be a no brainer. They're going to be excited. They're going to be bought in. They're going to say, hell yeah. And we want people in our practice that say hell yeah, because it's a lot easier and more fun for us to work with those kinds of people. Definitely. Again, sales doesn't have to feel salesy. We need to reframe our mindset around what sales actually means and show up in a way that serves the people that are coming to us because do not forget that those people are coming into your business, your office, your place of work, are coming into your place of service to receive what you have to offer. They want to be there, otherwise they wouldn't show up in the first place. So show up, use the tools that we are suggesting and maybe take an audit, go into your practice of your business this week and think to yourself, what sorts of questions am I asking? Am I asking open-ended questions, are I am I asking yes and no questions? What sorts of responses, what are my objections that I'm getting because all of those will be really good pieces of information to help you fine tune this process moving forward to get people to say yes, easier. All right, guys, it's been fun today. Hopefully that was helpful. We can't wait to see you on the next episode. If you haven't already, click the link below in the show notes to join our mastermind. We'll be deep diving more sales opportunities, sticky situations, conversations that you're having in office, workshop with them as a group, and of course there's lots of other content inside the content hub as well. So we hope to see you there and we'll see you on the next episode. See you next week. All right, that's a wrap on today's episode. We hope it sparked some new ideas and gave you a few things you can actually use. And hey, don't just listen, take action. That's ultimately how you'll scale and build your seven-figure business too. If you love this, hit follow so you've never missed an episode and share it with a friend who's chasing their own seven-figure expansion. And if you want more tips, tools, and the occasional denial I roll at me. Which happens often. Follow us on Instagram and we'll see you in the DMs. We'll see you next time on the expanded life. 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