Speaker 1the rest is entertainment is presented by octopus energy now cinema always really wants reality to cooperate and ideally on schedule
Speaker 2but it often doesn't nature is often the biggest enemy of the filmmaker and all sorts of film sets often out in the open often on very tight schedules but the weather doesn't always make things easy right no
Speaker 1filmmaking is often a negotiation with the natural world which and there's probably only going to be one winner
Speaker 2my favorite story of nature is mad max fury road which of course is in that incredible barren yeah wasteland but there'd been huge rainfalls before and the whole place was full of vegetation i mean absolutely there was i know there were wildflowers everywhere it's like what yeah and eventually they had to relocate to namibia because broken hill was just too green and that's nature for you
Speaker 1filmmaking can be very very persuasive but nature often has the final word octopus
Speaker 2energy generation is interested in wind and sunlight and weather for other reasons of course energy generation backs builds and manages renewable energy products across 435 sites in 21 countries so this is rather more than a passing interest in the weather this episode is
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Speaker 4be the one who's always in the know about the game the scores the plays here's a tip the apple sports app just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules and when your team scores it shows up right on your iphone lock screen making it easy to check in anytime so rule the group chat and download apple sports for free on the app store i'll see you in the next one bye or find it on your new iphone hello and welcome to this episode of the rest is
Speaker 1entertainment questions and answers edition i'm marina hyde and i'm
Speaker 2richard osmond hello everybody uh and hello also to kieran mcguire remember last week we were talking about when experts go on the news do they get paid and kieran mcguire is the football finance expert who's been talking about manchester city for the last few weeks uh and he wrote us a very interesting story about the football finance expert kieran mcguire very very lovely email thank you kieran uh firstly saying how many people had texted him about his appearance but he says um we were talking about are you paid as an expert and sometimes you are sometimes you're not uh but kieran says as an aside i've donated all the money from interviews on the man city story now 96 being an academic nerd i keep a spreadsheet to the samaritans as kevin day and i do a live benefit gig for them every year and the next one is november in
Speaker 1brighton oh that's great well done kieran well he's been doing an absolute shift on that story
Speaker 2lots of things to talk about this week shall we start with this one uh from alice who says this new by the way uh policy we have of only using people's first names for legal reasons that's okay uh alice says i didn't buy it but anyway alice said what the hell is i'll give this to alice she's pithy yeah what the hell is aj pritchard doing on gb news
Speaker 1well staying in the unknown on news channels um he aj pritchard let's just remind people who he is he was a former strictly pro yeah who uh and a tireless reality celebrity reality show contestant i think he's done hunted master show he's done so many he was a drag race choreographer i want to say at one point he his brother
Speaker 2curtis was on love island
Speaker 1they were both in holly oaks i mean he's toured the the corridors of british entertainment and otherwise so perhaps it's is it inevitable that he would eventually end up on the show a rolling news channel um his first stint on this went sort of viral because he was it seemed like he was almost doing an impression of a hard-hitting newsman um and it was about petty crime sort of shoplifting and things like that in terms of why he's on there i would say gb news is interesting when it but it also epitomizes problems with every book that everyone has in providing news you cannot make money out of
Speaker 2news is it right and say i was reading that no rolling news channel in the uk has ever made a profit
Speaker 1you can't be profitable you know there's the idea of people saying you know if we didn't have the bbc and so on i can assure you netflix are not getting into this yeah they have shown absolutely zero interest so bbc of course
Speaker 2don't make a profit sky news that's it's a it's sort of a lost leader for them and the gb news again is if if you if you want a certain viewpoint put you are happy to fund well let me tell you
Speaker 1about gb news they have lost huge amounts but they they they claim to be the biggest dedicated news channel um but they do lose a huge amount of money they say that they've been done over by for web and app traffic by those ai summaries now those ai summaries that you might just see for some businesses these are absolutely killing them when you open google and you type in the top of your google search it's the top of your google search it's it they are 63 percent down because of
Speaker 2ai summaries there's a way of getting rid of them right but it's quite a complicated there is no one
Speaker 1does it but people don't care people think it's good enough yeah and they don't care that some of it's a lot of it's wrong by the way i always notice just how much of those are wrong they're not as good as something like chat gpt or anything like that they are they are much more often chat gpt which is often wrong but it's much they are much more wrong i think again there's an amazing
Speaker 2line in the erin sorkin writes in the social reckoning that we that i recommended on tuesday where the woman from facebook goes you're just mad at me because you know we destroyed journalism and he said no i'm not mad at you because you destroyed journalism i'm mad at you because you
Speaker 1are so bad at it yeah you're doing it so bad it's very very good um so you're going to see a lot more of these news channels doing stunt stuff and this is really you know they haven't booked him for the news value um so someone like trevor phillips who's i think brilliant he's left sky he's gone to cbs um he's in the
Speaker 2new 60 minutes right
Speaker 1yeah so sky news they sort of revamped their sunday morning and they've put lots of personality presenters in there rather than um journalists so ruth davidson david olashoga they're gonna have different hosts each week everyone is going to be on the news and they're going to be on the news and everyone is trying whether you think it's gb news or sky news and everyone is trying to get some kind of hook into the viral market and so as i say they have tiny audiences and we have this legacy idea that these shows are important your competition is genuinely people producing news commentary in their bedrooms or with podcasts and this is the real problem for these channels and it's happening all the time you can't regulate these people you can't say that they're telling you anything accurate it doesn't you know it it anything that sticks out or makes a clippable moment for these news channels is supposed to be worth it i think it's i mean i think it's all false and it's all just this like either sort of stop providing or find a different way to do it but virality things going viral is equated with relevance yeah so the fact that this clip of this person doing the aj pritchard doing it very very badly or whatever has gone viral it might be regarded as some kind of win it might be the commercially useful thing that happened on gb news in 24 hours it's in their numbers right yeah because it also you might or you might get a 30 second shouting match between two guests and then it's like great we'll clip that um and it will go well on tiktok it's a bit like the south park gnomes where their business plan is one collect underpants two question mark three profit and there is a lot of that to this i think which is you know if we it go it'll go well on tiktok ideally it will drive up people towards subscribing to us okay profit yes um but it doesn't make meaningful purview money in and of itself just because there's a clip that i mean honestly i can't imagine the whole world's population kind of needs to watch something before you really start making money enough money to cover a news channel
Speaker 2okay so yeah i mean the thing is there isn't enough money to cover a news channel because as you say over here they've always been unprofitable and what gb news want really is to stem the losses a bit i think they they presumably is a budget that says i'm happy to have this platform i don't really want to lose a huge amount more than that and as you say the business plan is really really having to keep up with these absurd sort of movements in uh in in search and discovery and things like that uh in terms of why aj pritchard would do it which i think is interesting right so i see why gb news would do it they've got a lot of time to fill uh you know as you say why not have someone who people already recognize from someone else what's the worst that can happen and even if the worst that can happen is that they're not going to happen happens which it did actually is quite good for us but if you're aj pritchard it's it's always that dance between the asker and the asky in terms of talent and in terms of um tv and you have to find the sweet spot where each side needs the other one as much as they are needed so if you're you know an itv or someone you can have your you know choice of people and bbc you can have your choice of people and then it's just a question of kind of money and access and things like that but at this level you know aj as you said he's done lots of reality shows you know there comes a point where he's sitting in his agent's office and saying what is it that we do next you know i don't have a big long running
Speaker 1show prestige drama but i
Speaker 2have a you know he's got a skill he's a dancer so there's live tours and stuff like that that he can do but he needs to keep himself in the shop window like you know lots of talent so he's thinking what is it that i want to do what offers are coming in to me you know is it celebrity handcuffed you know what is it that's coming in and so it's is he big enough for it to be worth gb news is while yes because he has an equivalence with where they are in terms of discoverability and for him it's is it worth me doing this to keep myself in the shop window are there enough people watching and again it's going viral yeah it's actually worked for both of them because you know the whole point of this is of course they just put him on again now because why wouldn't you and it'll get better at it i'm sure i'm just absolutely
Speaker 1no can't get worse so yes i agree but there's no point to
Speaker 2watching him on a new show no any more than there'd be what was worth watching me doing a dancing show i mean because i can't watch that so hard i know in the same way but you would watch aj pritchard trying to be a news presenter so it's it's it has a similar vibe to it so it's worth it for for him because he needs a shop window because he wants to be on other shows and he wants to do live things and it's his living it's his profession you know that's what he does for a job and there's not many people who are pierce morgan who has that fame and is a journalist and you know he's obviously made he's made hundreds of millions and so everyone's thinking oh we could do that and it's probably not going to be aj pritchard i don't think but you know i mean listen we're all trying aren't we oh this
Speaker 1is an interesting one from sophie she says i have a question for you regarding the new zimbardo stanford prison experiment reality show due to air on netflix as a trainee clinical psychologist and fully aware of how catastrophic the original experiment was how can netflix and the creators justify making something that was so famously unethical and controversial yes so the
Speaker 2original stanford prison experiment is the one where they took undergraduates all men and put them in a prison environment and they were able to find out what was going on in the prison environment and half of them were made guards and half of them were made prisoners and you you could meet up punishments and stuff like that and it it went pretty mental almost immediately you know you're trying to see what happens when you give power to one group and no power to another see what that does to people uh and it it just it went very badly wrong and it was a it was a deeply psychologically unpleasant experience especially for the prisoners i've read so
Speaker 1much about it over the years it's like one of those obsessions that
Speaker 2yeah but everyone who's ever heard of it has wanted to turn it into a reality show yeah because it's already it's like oh you got 10 people 10 people and it's in an environment and there's someone looking at it and you're trying to work out something about human behavior from i've genuinely
Speaker 1seen more morally debased reality shows yeah
Speaker 2all the way through but i'd i would say from the 90s onwards this is the single thing i've seen pitched most often yeah in television companies everybody has pitched the stanford prison experiment everyone i there has never been a single the second you get two people who have pitched the stanford prison experiment everyone has never been a single in a tv office and there is a single buyer somewhere within 20 minutes i say why don't we do something based on the stanford
Speaker 1prison experiment so it's been given to netflix hi this is netflix you're
Speaker 2greenlit yes so netflix is doing it uh and uh and and to speak to sophie's question what they are not going to do on netflix is recreate the stanford prison experiment right because we know what happened it went very very badly wrong and it was awful but it's understanding that the stanford prison experiment is a is is something that we're not going to do on netflix is something that people understand and recognize and they understand it's about power dynamics and they understand it's about will people follow orders you know which is a lot of what happened there and they think for various reasons that that might be quite opposite for the times in which we live and so what they're actually doing is redrawing the stanford prison experiment and doing it in a way that it should have been done in the first place with proper oversight and proper rules and interesting psychologists involved i know they've got like a like a former you know prison in there and they've got you know harvard professors so it's one of those things that they're doing with the proper guardrails now which they didn't before but so it's launching off the back of how awful how failed the stanford prison experiment was which is why it's famous which is why you can launch it with a bit of buzz but it is redrawing it for 2026 are they sourcing it
Speaker 1or all the all the contestants like because they were all hippie you know i mean that was the thing all these all these experiments like this the milgram experiment they're all done in these like west coast universities where everyone was a complete hippie and became a hippie and became an absolute nazi on within 15 minutes of starting it within 15
Speaker 2minutes of there being no data available um i
Speaker 1wonder i'll be interested to see what it's been yeah it's been it's been
Speaker 2cast across genders and across ages and stuff like that which again the original experiment wasn't so yeah so the question is they are not redoing the stanford prison experiment because that would be incredibly dangerous they are imagining what can it tell us about the world in which we live today and the fact that it's based on stanford prison experiment again it's it's in a way that stanford prison experiment has become
Speaker 1ip that we all own it 100 yeah it has people know what it or not everyone knows what it is but it'll be easy to explain yeah um and it will it somehow makes it sort of prestigey to have a little history and some of the footage at the beginning yeah you know i'm sure they'll keep it all they'll bring it all into the show yeah why it went wrong and
Speaker 2all that kind of stuff but it is there is not a single thing in the history of recorded entertainment that's been done in the history of recorded entertainment that's been done that has been pitched more often than let's do the stanford prison experiment but if they do it well it'll be fascinating viewing that's for sure um should we go to a break let's
Speaker 1this episode is brought to you by our
Speaker 2friends at lloyds now let's talk about
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Speaker 2tv and book my answer is the same and it's tom ripley
Speaker 1i was going to say him it's one of the greatest characters of all
Speaker 2time so from the talented mr ripley books by patricia highsmith there's five of them so if you like talented mr ripley you are in luck he's like one of the worst men in the world but you absolutely you root for him at all times
Speaker 1now of course deception makes for excellent entertainment on screen in real life when it's your bank account being targeted the charm somewhat
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Speaker 2to be talking about the this has been a huge story but i want to do a version that people will kind of let's get back to what's important about it for us ian says with paramount skydance finally completing its merger with warner brothers combining huge brands like hbo max and paramount plus alongside major franchises like harry potter and game of thrones i was wondering how could this massive deal actually impact the average wrestlers entertainment listener from the future of films to streaming prices so whatever's happened this huge kind of deal and the financial implications actually for us as consumers and people in britain watching streaming what will actually change i
Speaker 1think all the questions should just be like what's it mean for wrestlers entertainment i quite agree what does aj
Speaker 2pritchard mean for wrestlers
Speaker 1entertainment listeners well in an ideal world it would supposedly deliver more value to you we have to slightly talk about it in the us to start with because um you know that's what the justice department hoped that bringing two things together but let's be honest it's not going to be a big deal it's going to be a big deal it's going to be a big deal it's different to the uk and the us and i will do both whenever two competing services become one and you can get paramount i have both but at the moment paramount plus and hbo max you get a smaller market because there is less competition and the players in that market have more freedom to increase their prices and also this new company skydance has unbelievably massive debt and they have to pay that down so i have to be honest with you what what it will bring you is more tv and film in one place because they're going to eventually put hbo max and paramount plus together they haven't done that they're not going to do that for a bit so if you have one or other of those you're not going to have to sort of pay the extra for
Speaker 2both it'd be like hbo even more max like when gillette add an yet another blade another
Speaker 1blade yeah or four taylor sheridan blades
Speaker 2hbo max plus plus um hbo max
Speaker 1plus yeah
Speaker 2that's what they call it
Speaker 1yeah max plus yeah it's um but it it's almost certainly going to mean higher subscriptions if you pay for both currently like me it might end up less it might but i even then because i say they've got so much debt so it's not clear if you pay for paramount now just for say taylor sheridan shows because you love them um you may now have to pay more for for all if especially in the u.s for all this hbo stuff all that woke nonsense that they don't want so okay that's that's the telly at the cinema i think this is probably the more significant bit there are now four major major hollywood studios instead of five so decision making has been consolidated consolidated, and there is 20% less decision-making out there so people who had things to sell and ideas and for kind of creative richness and for the sort of originals we want to see well most people who listen to this podcast would like to see some um originals in theaters i think there will be less of that um as we saw what happened we talked about digger last week and we talked about how those two executives mike and pam are out at warners they were known for kind of big swing originals and the people from paramount coming in are not they're known for doing lots of sequels and so more likely you'll be seeing more sequels um they have guaranteed 30 films a year for the first two years they have guaranteed that they couldn't get the deal through without doing that so but i believe that what you will get is a smaller choice of films ultimately after two years if you think they're going to be making 30 films i have a bridge to sell you um there will be more blockbusters or attempts to have blockbusters in your cinemas than there will be kind of originals because they've become a very big studio it might be possible to push the cinema chains into higher ticket prices um because you could negotiate tougher terms for major releases and what that means is that you it's harder for independent cinemas that you might go to to put on an independent kind of program of films um for british films i think this is very significant it's really hard for british films to get into cinemas right now they account for something like they're like six or seven percent of all the films of our box office um and cinema screens are limited and independent british films have to compete with these hollywood films and if they are negotiating harder terms because they want them all to be blockbusters it will be i really think indie british films there's not a lot left to lose before they come become almost unviable as an idea which i think think is really sad and it's you know the other countries have taken very very proactive steps to allow this not to happen you look at france they have so they have a very very strong independent cinema i would i would hope that it doesn't have this effect but i fear that it does and i think that makes a that's quite a big deal so there might
Speaker 2be fewer the ballad of wallace island and
Speaker 1rye lanes yeah and they're already a tiny amount anyway say why that
Speaker 2is again because
Speaker 1basically they will have the power to kind of push for harder terms and to keep i don't know if they want things to become blockbusters to give me more screens give me you know just just a little bit more you know just just consolidating yes and the cinema industry because again anything any time that you make a market smaller you can just push for higher prices and you can make bigger demands because there are fewer players and this is a risk for sure so i think in in summary you know it might make your tv subscriptions more expensive there might be fewer originals for you to watch at cinema and it might be very difficult for british films so i hope none of these things happen but the likelihood given what's going on in the world of cinema is that it's going to be a lot more and given what we understand about these kind of market economics is that they will
Speaker 2is there an argument that says because they are burdened with such an enormous amount of debt and even if you're the edisons it's a lot of debt and the fact that they have promised to make 30 movies a year is there an argument that says they have no other option other than to cut production costs with ai which is something i keep reading about that the introduction of ai into the production process will be massively accelerated by
Speaker 1this you know larry allison's a tech guy so i mean i don't what we think is happening here but yeah that it's already spreading throughout every layer of the production process um and it's just the ship has sailed they're just going to have to start talking about it but and that's not limited to um skydance
Speaker 2yes but it but i think it may speed it up
Speaker 1particularly are going to want to speed it up yeah now
Speaker 2our next question as you know one of our sponsors is lloyds and we said instead of just doing an advert we have to read out when you ask a question and they have come up with a doozy which i have an answer to i think you do as well and their question is this what is the entertainment gift that keeps on giving this is
Speaker 1from louise at lloyds i think louise is talking about just properties that just continue to kind of pay out and expand or whatever well you
Speaker 2always say noel edmunds used to say money while you sleep
Speaker 1even noel could not have dreamt of star wars in terms of money as you sleep okay people thought it was going to be mad a space opera what the hell and before they knew that before they knew how big it was going to be what it came out in 1977 by the way it's it cost them about 11 million dollars imagine that but they they had made plans for it to become a sort of franchise if it just like did okay you never know if it did okay so they thought if it does okay and it sort of washes its face they had another sequel which was called something like it was called splinter of the mind's eye oh
Speaker 2that's a riddle no it was not they didn't they weren't with the
Speaker 1empire strikes back in the end which obviously became absolutely massive and remember he was the he keeps the merchandising rights lucas so that is certainly a gift that keeps on giving for him and eventually when disney finally bought lucas film and that's one of the brands that now sits under it they bought it for four four billion in 2012 i still think that was a good price yeah i
Speaker 2mean that is a gift that keeps on giving i'm very excited about george lucas's new museum in la which is a museum of narrative and illustrative art which goes to show how much money he's got because firstly he's bought all of this art a lot of you there's norman rockwells and all sorts of things in there but secondly he's got a building massive enough to house he's got foundation money now yeah he has got gift that keeps on giving yeah money i would say that i'll go for the office because just because the origin stories are so you know wiki and steven had this idea steven who was a trainee at the bbc was given a film crew for a day they did the sort of very very first iteration of the office and so we know what happened it
Speaker 1wasn't beloved by executives by the way when they first got out i always remember someone saying that they'd effectively told them back with something funny next
Speaker 2time yeah but also it wasn't loved by viewers in week one yeah they were like kind of sorry what is this uh and the reason that's the gift that keeps on giving they did 12 episodes over here then they're doing an american reboot and american reboots never work and uh it's just became pretty much the biggest sitcom in the history of the world in the last year we've got um uh really proper figures for it was streamed for 57.1 billion minutes in the u.s alone that's 108 000 years of watching the american office in one year alone from that one day at the bbc and obviously the money that everyone's made involved in that is absolutely extraordinarily through the roof but it's lovely because it was it was one day it was two guys who had an idea that nobody really wanted nobody really liked they believed in it they made it they did another series the americans came in and made something that builds on it but is sort of different as well
Speaker 1it defined a whole way of doing things culturally you know yeah the sort of mockumentary thing but it became impossible really not to make everything look a little bit like it was shot like that even something like the thick of it comes along and it needs to look like that because otherwise it doesn't seem edgy and it doesn't seem sort of in part of the zeitgeist
Speaker 2yeah so it changed acting for uh you know in lots of ways as well that mockumentary way of acting so it's extraordinary from one day to 108 000 years just because you know two people wrote a great script and that to me is the most amazing thing is uh is a gift that keeps on giving the
Speaker 1things that really last in entertainment richard tend to acquire much more life than anyone originally planned for them
Speaker 2exactly right there's rather more to club lloyds than the current account itself lloyds calls it the gift horse of bank accounts beyond the banking there's cashback and your choice of a lifestyle perk such as cinema tickets or disney plus
Speaker 1to find out more search club lloyds or visit lloydsbank.com five pound
Speaker 2monthly account for you refunded when you pay in 2000 pound each month uk residents 18 plus t's and c's apply thank you for watching and i'll see you in the next one bye bye louise from lloyds we have
Speaker 1a question from nelly which i really like do writers ever use a young person consultant when making tv about teenagers oh that's funny
Speaker 2well we can talk about it a bit but before we do that we um actually have an answer mike flanagan was in town he's just done the new carry for amazon prime very much about teenagers very much about teenagers so um i put nelly's question to him and this is what mike flanagan has to say nelly
Speaker 6well nelly that is a question and the answer is absolutely because uh i know absolutely nothing about what it means to be a teenager today um i thought that having been a teenager in the 90s uh meant that i knew something about the experience of teenagers today i was wrong very wrong and i learned that because in our writers room for carry we invited several teenagers to come into the writers room um to share details about their lives their anxieties their day-to-day experiences and we asked them what they thought about the experience of teenagers and they said they were very wrong of our work of our plot points of our characters of where our season was going um and asked for their feedback because they know what they're talking about and and we do not um so yes absolutely i i think uh i think writers uh certainly should and we absolutely did uh bring in the people who know what they're talking about the things that surprised me the most about this um was the fortitude that young people have to have today just to kind of make it through their lives i was amazed by how acutely aware they are of um the political uh environmental uh economic landscape that they're stepping into um amazed by how savvy they are about kind of the realities of the world around them um and amazed at what they have to navigate on the daily when it comes to how public their lives are um when i was in school the uh the mistakes i made or the or at that school um i think young people today are living lives that are not only visible in some cases to the entire world and the entire internet uh but living with the feeling that anything they do say or put out there about themselves or things that are put out there about them without their consent can live forever and follow them forever. And I think that requires an extraordinary amount of strength and fortitude and bravery on the daily that I was so impressed by.
Speaker 1Wow, that's a great answer.
Speaker 2Isn't it a great answer? What a great guy.
Speaker 1Yeah, very dispassionate and unsparing of himself. I really feel that. I have to say nothing has been more helpful almost for this podcast than any time I can talk to teenagers particularly. I even mentioned it when I did my book speech saying thank you. There's a lot of people that would let me talk to their teenagers and I said teenagers are the best. Teenagers have this unbelievable focus, as he's right, about the times that we're living through because they're just living through. I suppose we all talk about hormonal stuff or whatever, but yours? Or living through it in such a heightened way. Everyone is having the carry pig's blood almost every day because of the way that humiliation has become a sort of tool and driver of the platforms that they are all on and through which all of their life is mediated. I think teenagers have taught me more that I've ended up saying on this podcast and given me better windows into the world of all of entertainment, not just the stuff aimed at them, than almost anyone else.
Speaker 2Yeah, you have to because we come from a certain generation who consumed media in a certain way and our culture was a certain way and as Mike was saying, there were more certainties in the world when we were growing up and actually you can't see media and culture. We've been talking about brain rot on the main episode this week. You can't see culture through the lens that you grew up with. You have to constantly be changing your lens and you do that by speaking to people.
Speaker 1Absolutely, and it's great that they got them. I love his chastened expression in all of that. Yeah, they told us what they thought of our plot points. There's a reason things have to happen like this because of television, but also I bet they took on board what they were saying.
Speaker 2It really reminds me of the stories from the Succession writers' room when they brought in billionaire consultants and they'd be going, sorry, why is he ducking when he gets out of a helicopter?
Speaker 1They don't need a coat. Why would they use a coat? She doesn't know where her kitchen is. She doesn't know where the kitchen is. Why have you put a scene in it?
Speaker 2Yeah, it's like billionaire. Yeah, we have a lot to learn from both. So I'm going to see you again tonight. We're going to watch The Traitors. We're going to do a live reaction episode. Episode five. Yeah, and the same again tomorrow. Those will be available to everyone. And again, thanks for all your feedback on those. It's been really, really, what a lovely thing to share with everyone.
Speaker 1It's such fun. Yeah. All right then, see you later.
Speaker 2See you later, everyone. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
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