(upbeat music) What's up, Donald Pranors? It's that time again. We're excited to announce the 13th annual dental success summit happening June 11th through 13th, 2026 at the Omni PGA Frisco Resort and Spa in Frisco, Texas. Right now, early bird tickets are live, and this is the biggest discount of the entire year, at 55% off. If you've ever been on the fence about coming to the summit, this is the moment to lock in. This year, we're thrilled to welcome Gina Whitman, best-selling author of "Traction," and creator of the entrepreneurial operating system as our featured keynote speaker. If you care about clarity, leadership, and building a business that actually runs without chaos, this is gonna be a game changer for you. We're also bringing back the expanded breakout sessions for both doctors and team members, with focus tracks for clinical leadership, operations, front office, hygiene, and assistance. These were a huge success last year, and we're leveling up even more for 2026. You'll learn 14 CE credits, get out of the practice, spend intentional time with your team, and walk away with strategies you can actually implement right away. DSI and DSN members receive additional discounts, so be sure to check DSN on WorkFivo for your codes. Early bird pricing is available for a limited time and runs through the beginning of February. After that, prices will increase, and like every year, this event will sell out. Just search, dental success summit, to secure your seats today. See you in Frisco. (upbeat music) Hey, duck, you know the feeling, it's four o'clock on a Wednesday afternoon, your last patient is in the chair, and suddenly the compressor dies. The phone start ringing, patients get rescheduled, production stops cold. That's why smart practices rely on Techagogo, the on-demand platform built for moments just like this. Whether it's midweek, after hours or on the weekend, Techagogo connects you instantly with certified trusted technicians who show up fast and get you back online. And listen, I've been there. I know how disruptive a breakdown can be. That's why I love what Techagogo is doing for our profession, real-time solutions, and peace of mind when you need it most. No on-hold music, no waiting, just fast, transparent, reliable service. To learn more and get exclusive benefits as listeners of the dental power podcast, just head to techagogo.com/dsi. That's t-e-k-a-g-o-g-o.com/dsi. Service at the speed of need. T-E-K-A-G-O-G-O.com/dsi. The dental pranour podcast, okay doctor? It's time to put down that handpiece. You're listening to the show dedicated to helping dentists get their lives back. It's time to decrease your stress, increase your profitability, and regain your passion. Now introducing your host, Dr. Mark Costas. (upbeat music) Hello, everyone, welcome to another episode of the dental power podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Mark Costas. What is up, my friends? I hope you're doing great out there today. Oh man, what a cool day. And what a cool time of year here in Preskitt, Arizona. If you guys don't know, Preskitt, Arizona is about 5,500 feet. So it's the same altitude as Denver. My house is at 6,500 feet. So we're supposed to get snow this week. And for a lot of people in town, they kind of dread that weather change, that season change, but this is one of the times that I come alive because that means the slopes are gonna be opening soon. So a couple of my sons and I love to snowboard. I am no expert by any stretch. So all of you people that helly ski and all that stuff, that is not me, you can invite me, but I'm gonna be hanging out on the smaller slopes. But it is one of the places that I really love to hang out, especially because my sons love to do it. And I picked it up really late in life, but I really, really enjoy it. So super excited. We're gonna probably go out the weekend before Thanksgiving. So next week, my son and I, even though the snow is gonna be kind of crappy, we're gonna go out and try out some of our new gear. Also excited because I'm welcoming a new friend to the podcast today. It's his first time on the Denial Promo podcast. Very, very interesting backstory. Extremely accomplished, young man. Let's welcome to the podcast, Dr. Brian Baskar. He's a third generation oral surgeon and founder of Cindy, a digital referral management platform for dental practices inspired by his grandfather, a pioneer in dentist and first Asian born major general in US military history. Wow, that's amazing. Brian is carrying his family's legacy forward by helping to make dentistry more efficient and collaborative. As a practicing oral surgeon, he grew up frustrated by how much time offices still spend filling out paper pads, emailing, faxing, faxing, and playing phone tag. Determined to fix the referral bottleneck, the experience firsthand, he created Cindy, an encrypted HIPAA compliant platform that enables general dentist and specialist to send track and communicate about referrals seamlessly. Cindy combines Brian's clinical expertise with a mission to simply simplify operations and improve patient care across the dental community. Brian, what's up, dude? How are you today? What's up, Mark? Hey, good to have you. Did that introduction. (laughing) Good to have you, man. Congratulations on being a newly minted oral surgeon. What an exciting time of life for you. Yeah, it's been pretty crazy. So third generation, huh? Third generation. How does that happen? That many times in a row. That's pretty cool. I know even my younger sister's a dentist too, but you know, it's kind of a legacy. Like you said, my grandpa, you're immigrated here from India and who's an oral pathologist and period honest. Okay. And my father's an oral surgeon too. Wow. Amazing. So let's take it all the way back. So where did you go to undergrad, Brian? So I went to Gonzaga. You know, it seems like if you've ever heard of it, you know, small town up in Eastern Washington. And I always had a dream of playing on their basketball team. Yeah. So that was like the reason why I went out there. And then I eventually made my way to over to University of Washington for dental school in Oxford due residency. So there was no basketball at Gonzaga for you or as a fan or did you play? No, so I ended up making the team the end of my sophomore year. I didn't make it as a freshman, but I had the opportunity to play on two teams. One of which was I guess the first time the school was ranked number one in the nation, which is pretty cool. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, a couple of cool experiences there. That's cool. That's cool. So did you play the full four years? No, just two full years, but now it was a walk on. So anyone who knows that lifestyle, not all of the clamors. Yeah, not at all, but you're on a national championship team, right? Or, you know, we made it to NCAA tournament, but no national championship. It's a sort of ranked number one. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not that much of a novice. Your rank number one, but you didn't necessarily win the national championship. Yeah. Right on. Yeah. How was that tournament? Where'd you guys end up playing? I got to play all over. I think, you know, the NCAA tournament was in the Southern California one year, one year, and then Denver, the other. But, you know, it's just cool with all the schools coming together in all the different fan bases. But, you know, unfortunately, both, both years were in the tournament. We got knocked out first and second round, which is a bummer. That is a bummer. Yeah. Yeah. Cool, man. So, geez, I had to take my hat off to you. So somebody that plays division one sports plus maintaining a good enough GPA to get into dental school. That's a feat in and of itself. But then once you got into dental school, you got to be like in the top three to get into a oral surgery residency. So congratulations both ways. You're gifted athletically and with the mind to retain information. So those are two things that skipped me. I guess I was average speed. Well, I was fast, but less than average height. So I was a slot receiver in high school. I played one year of very small college football and then I decided this wasn't going anywhere. So I decided to focus on academics and I don't know if you know my story, but it took me a long time to get into dental school. So it wasn't a shoe. I wasn't a shoe in like you were. But congratulations. That's a really cool story. I'm sure we could talk for a long time about all of your exploits as a D1 athlete. Pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, you got to set a gun yourself. So that's some I don't have. It's a lot easier for short guys. My specialty after I played college football is I got really into weightlifting and power lifting and stuff and I just found it like my body was built for it. I was a wrestler too. So I was built for wrestling, you know, martial arts and weightlifting because of the short limbs. So I tried to maximize my gifts.
as much as I could. So cool, all right. So tell me about your experience in dental school. How did dental school treat you? Knowing probably from the time that you were very young that you wanted to be a legacy and go into dentistry in the first place. - Yeah, no, it's interesting mission that 'cause I felt like I was always kind of on a mission. I, like even when I was an undergraduate, I knew I wanted to be an oral surgeon. So, you know, I kind of beat myself up along the way, but you know, dental school is a great experience. Like I felt like in college, I was so busy with, you know, school and sports and that, like in dental school, I had a chance to make some of my, like, you know, lifelong friends, I hope. And, you know, it was a great opportunity to study hard, but 'cause everyone's on the same page. It seems like, so, you know, I had some of the best years of my life and, like, luckily I was able to accomplish some things and get into oral surgery residency, but my wife and I always say it was like the best time we had better than college. - Yeah, for sure. I mean, so if you think about it, I mean, let's stack those years up. So you're four year undergrad, right? And you were, like, very, very busy 'cause you're a D1 athlete and you're, you know, taking all the pre-med classes. What was your major? - Biology. - Biology. So bio-major pre-med classes, D1 athlete, then you get in dental school. It's almost like a little bit of a break, right? 'Cause you were able to take your foot off the gas and focus on one thing. At least it was just academics and not the sports stuff in addition to that. 'Cause it, I mean, it's a full-time job being a D1 athlete. Being an athlete in college, I will say, even though a small-time college athlete, it is a full-time job. I mean, there's a reason why people are like rec majors and sociology majors. Because they really don't have, especially when you're traveling a lot, man, it's very, you have very little bandwidth in time to do anything other than that one thing which they expect you to dedicate 100% of your attention to, especially at a D1 school. So, I mean, if you stack up all those years, you're looking at, you know, what, eight years plus another six. So, you're coming to the end of a 14-year journey and now you're finally a professional. How's that feel? - It feels great, but nothing is harder than prior practice. - Like, yeah. - I don't know. - It's just like, you've learned so many skills and you learn, you gain so much knowledge, but, you know, once, you know, once you're on your own and the buck stops with you and, you know, you have to manage patients to make sure they have a great experience. Like, those skills are hard and I know it's gonna take time, but I'm trying to enjoy the fact that I'm not on school at least. - Yeah. You know, it's funny because, you know, you get into, you get into dental school and you have kind of one singular focus. It's like, it's like you're walking through a tunnel and you have the ability to focus on nothing else except for getting to the next semester with the best GPA that you possibly can with acquiring as many skills as you possibly can. Enough skills to, like, not necessarily be proficient, but maybe not to hurt somebody. And then you get out into private practice or in your case, into residency. And it's the same thing. You have a singular focus. You're learning anatomy, you're learning all the stuff that goes into being, you know, a physician. And by the time you get out, you have a very specific singular skill set. And then you're released out into the world and then you're expected to also just naturally know how to run a dental practice, manage people, be a leader. When there is zero development in all of those 14 years focused on that. And that becomes 50% of your reality, right? So you spent 100% of your time focusing on one side of this business ownership/clinical journey. And then you're completely equipped to do one thing and completely ill-equipped to do the other thing. So that's what leads to so much stress, I believe. How are we supposed to pick up and just understand, like here's what systemization is. Here's how to build a good culture. Here's how to have a decent work life, I call it integration and not balance. I hate the work life balance. All those things are just taken for granted. Like you're supposed to just figure that out when you get out. But there's an equal amount of effort and energy that's required to build that skill set as there is to building your clinical skill set. And people take for granted that you'll just figure it out as you go along. And the stakes are high, especially after you've been doing something prepping for this for 14 years. So I understand that feeling. And I felt the exact same way when I got out. I was ahead, I got into the executive MBA program. I had my first business while I was trying to get into dental school. So I felt like I was at least equipped to run a business. But man, there's nothing like running a dental practice. It's totally different than anything else. No, I think-- I mean, that's also why I think there's so much value in what you do. It's like when I was in college, being coached, learning how to be coached is a valuable skill. And being able to take feedback and act on it. That was something I gained in college. And in residency, it's kind of the same environment. You have like attendings that are kind of harsh on you, giving you feedback constantly. But without that, it's hard to truly excel. And some of-- like in private practices, the same thing. If you're on your own, how do you get that feedback? How do you know how to get better? And I think people, like yourself, being in private practice can be very isolating, it seems. And having a resource like you to talk through problems and you feel like you're in control, it just seems like a no-brainer as well. At least that's what I feel. I've just listened to you sometimes. Well, I appreciate it. Hopefully you're not sick of my voice yet. A lot of times people, during their preclinical lab, are listening to-- going back as far as they can. There's 2,400 episodes, dude. I'm like, please don't try to start from the beginning. You'll never catch up. But if you start from present day and go backwards, you can kind of pick up some stuff. But I really appreciate that. Take us through what this looked like. When did development of Cindy start? And what was the starting point? When you had-- I mean, there's a difference between having a great idea. We all have great ideas. Great, billion dollar ideas, I always say, are a dime a dozen. People that take action and actually act on those brilliant ideas. I mean, you reduce that down to single digit percentage of people that have a brilliant idea that actually execute on it. So when you had the idea and started to kind of put the pieces together to build a business around it, build an actual product that worked, when did that all start? Yeah, so I think something you'll appreciate. It's like, I think I was in my late 20s, probably halfway through residency. I was reading a book by Felix Dennis. I think it's called How to Get Rich. It's not the greatest title. But basically-- I've read yours. It's great. It's a great book. And I honestly changed my life in some respects. In a sense that he was talking about taking risks in your late 20s because as you get older, you get debt, family, time becomes an issue. And I just had this aha moment that I wanted to do something. And I felt like the clock was ticking for me. I was planning to start a family and get deeper and deeper into residency. So I think it was just like, I had this curiosity. And I felt like, as we all as dentists, we know nothing-- most of us know nothing better than dentistry. So I just started to explore different problems that I wanted to fix potentially. And it just became so apparent to me that we're like, how ridiculous it is that the industry standard descend referrals is paper. And that just bothered me so much. And I guess when I was in residency, as a hobby or a way to relax myself is I started designing the software. So I can't pin on when I actually started. But it started just like me reaching out to some of my friends, software engineers. I think it was an open-house in general surgery. And just on the weekends, just designing a tool that people could use. So maybe like three years ago, but didn't start taking seriously into like six or eight months ago when I finished. OK. Awesome. And walk us through a user experience of Cindy. What does that look like? Are you targeting mostly general dentists? Or are you targeting mostly specialists? How does the interface and the integration work into a typical private practice? Yeah. So I'd say there's like two sides.
to it. You know, a lot of the tools I had designed like as a specialist, which I can describe later, but like the biggest, the first problem I wanted to solve was how do I create like a digital referral? That's actually easy for a general dentist. So like the vision is like you create like a network where, you know, everyone has an account, everyone has their custom forms uploaded. So all the general dentist has to do is log on, search who they want to refer to, their custom form populace and they send a referral. Like just accomplishing that, I think would save a lot of people time. But you know, over time, what I noticed and I know you know very well, like having multiple practices and you know, managing a busy dental practice is like when you're referring things out, there's a lot of time like wasted in like the communication back and forth, whether it's like collaborating about a referral or, you know, like what is a standard process that did practices use to discuss cases? So it turned into, you know, among our users, it's like a place to collaborate and have like a hipocompliance secure, secure chat. So, you know, start with a digital referral, created like a chat system where you could like talk about cases. And then the last part I was going to say is, you know, as a specialist, if most of your revenues generated from referrals, you should have a tool to track the progress of these referrals to potentially convert 100%. So on the receiving end, you have tools to, you know, set reminders, set statuses and it kind of automates the scheduling process. So like, well, like my real goal is like to make like I think I love to hear your take on this, but like I think like dentistry is like so fragmented and connectivity is just like an issue. Everything is so manual and like relies on phone calls or, you know, you know, non-hippocompliance ways of talking. So that's just kind of like where I was going with it originally. That is very cool. That is very cool. What's the monetization structure? How do you make money off of this? So like I'm not, I'm more passionate about creating like a network. So like currently how we structure it is, there's a paid a paid plans, you know, Cindy Pro. And that basically allows you to send and receive unlimited referrals. You can have unlimited user seats and limited locations for just like $49 a month. And otherwise, you know, any general dentist can create a account and it's free and you can send referrals. So the basically what, what your, what a specialist typically is paying for is the tools to track referrals and, you know, convert them and communicate with your general dentist. Makes sense. Makes sense. So what happens with that database and that network once you create it? What are you envisioning? The value is of that just in whole. Well, like, you know, we have like a lot of different nodes on the West Coast. And, you know, like the dream is that, you know, by creating this, you know, cloud-based network with digital referrals, you ultimately will like save time for the practitioner, because not sifting through like a drawer or like scanning or faxing things. You know, there's less back and forth, whether it's like a phone call, an email about insurance information or x-rays, you know, you can just, you know, message someone, you know, from your house, from your office, whatever. So, you know, I think, you know, ultimately like improving communication, you know, making patient care more efficient. Like, I think, I think if you were to create that opportunity for dentists, it would be, I think it would improve a lot of people's day-to-day. Love it. What do you think about that? Like, how do you guys process your referrals at all your different offices? Yeah, it is, it's, honestly, it is antiquated. It's not much different than it was when I graduated in 2002, frankly. Most of it comes from paper. Typically, there is inadequate data/, you know, radiographs or anything attached to that. So, there's usually a back and forth, even after the patient is successfully transferred to a specialist office. There's usually inadequate data that accompanies the referral slip. And I have noticed as the owner of a general dental practice, or several general dental practices, that it goes both ways. And there's inadequate data that comes back from the specialist. And that leads to a lot of different, unintended consequences, right? So, a lot of times, you know, you'll send somebody over for, you know, say a difficult implant on tooth number five, or maybe an anterior implant because the buckle plate is missing or something like that. And then the patient comes back with, you know, perhaps an implant that's placed not in a great restorative position. And their third mullers are gone. You know, it's like, what just happened here? Like, we take out third mullers, you know? And that's happened more times than I can count. And that comes down to the lack of communication, the lack of follow-up, lack of clarity, as to why that patient ended up in the specialist practice in the first place. That's just one kind of one-off example. But I can see that this would be very, very helpful in. I mean, like, I've only been in private practice for. I mean, this used to happen in residency, but in private practice, you'll get a referral, and maybe you have a question. And it seems so hard to just. I'm not as like, because I'm new to the area, I don't have everyone's cell number. And I don't have everyone on my fingertips. So it's very difficult to like, I have to like, schedule a meeting or a phone call or send an email to talk about Chase. Super clunky. Where, like, now with anyone who's on, you know, Cindy, I can just send a message, and it will be related to the referral that they sent, you know, and they'll get a notification and be able to respond almost like in real time. Most of the time, it takes time. But there's always someone manning the desk or like, the notifications. So I think, honestly, like, I think that's dentistry is like, making a lot of improvements in terms of tech. Most of the reason why I created this is just because it's something that I think I would want to use. Like, I don't want to do. I don't want to hand out paper or referral pads. Like, I think, I think it's. I think like a digital referral and like being able to like, really connect with my referring offices and be accessible to them is like, what I wanted to, you know, provide. So is this app based? Do you have an app and then you're communicating to them via an app or is it an email or how is the information transferred? So it's all on the cloud. Like, if you just search CindyReforals.com, you can access it anywhere. But in the next couple of weeks, we're going to launch. weeks to months, we're going to launch like an app that you can have on your phone. Got it. If you've listened to the show for any amount of time, you know that I'm big on discipline, especially when it comes to health, fitness and nutrition. One of the simplest frameworks I've followed for years is this. Eat enough protein, don't overdo calories, and keep sugar as low as possible. That's why I've been reaching for David Protein bars. I travel more than 99% of people and when you're living out of airports, hotels and conference rooms, it's really hard to find food that supports your goals instead of sabotaging them. David has honestly been a lifesaver for me. Their gold line packs 28 grams of protein with just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. But 75% of calories coming from protein, which is unheard of. Their bronze line delers 20 grams of protein, 150 calories, and zero sugar, and a totally different texture and flavor profile if you want variety. I keep these with me for travel days post-workout fuel or the gap between meetings when
I need something quick that won't throw my nutrition off track. Every batch is third party tested, so you know exactly what you're putting into your body. If you want to try them, just head to davidprotein.com/dsi. Right now you can buy four cartons and get the fifth one free, and you can mix and match flavors across both lines. That's davidprotein.com/dsi, where better nutrition meets peak performance. That's awesome, man. So you have this thing turning in the background. Was there any investors involved with the seed capital to get this going, or was this all that out pocket for you? Mostly just family, family friends. That's cool. We're not a huge company, but luckily in the last couple of months it's kind of like exploding in some area, not exploding, but it's been quite succeeded in my expectations. So I think maybe down in line it's something where I can raise more money. I like it, dude. Cool. Let me know. You might have an investor here, or a few listening in the podcast. Let's talk about private practice for a little bit, if you don't mind. Tell me about your experience so far. So I work for my dad. He's my boss. So that dynamic has been amazing because he's a mentor and he's been able to teach me some of them sticks he's made over time, which has helped me dramatically. But it's tough. I have really hard days. I'm not as efficient as I want to be. I try to have a little huddle with myself every day and just say that I want to be focused on great outcomes, not speed. But yeah, I got a lot of nights where I'd be myself up and I'm based on your podcast and Instagram. I'm probably not eating well and exercising enough. But I don't know. It's fun, though. I get to see my kids at night and instead of residency. Yeah, totally. Totally. Tell me about your experience through residency. Is there still a lot of rights of passage inside the surgical world? I have more than a handful of friends that are orthopedic surgeons, urologist, ENTs, general surgeons and oral surgeons. And some of the stories they tell are pretty funny. They can laugh about it now being through it. They weren't laughing about it as they were going through it. But tell me some of the insider stuff that happens inside a general surgery residency, the surgical path through medicine. So it's, I would do it all over. It was an amazing experience. University of Washington is a fantastic program. It's very much what you hear about. The first couple of years, you're doing the 80s. I shouldn't be saying this, but it's long hours. You're working like 80, 100 hours. You're just all in the trenches. You're learning a ton. You slowly get to operate more and more as years go on. And then right as you're getting into your like third and fourth year and you're starting getting confident, they send you to general surgery and you're right at the bottom and you don't know anything. And general surgery is an incredible experience because you get to see what you get to operate with laparotomy and you get to do procedures with neurosurgeons, orthopedic surgeons. You get to see the entire spectrum of surgery, which is humbling too, but it's great to be able to treat a patient medically, like think of the entire body. And then the last couple of years of residency are basically where you want to earn as much respect from attendings and build their trust. You can operate more independently. And those years are more fun because you want to work more because you have more autonomy. Those are the years where that I will miss. Because you know I go in the hospital, you get to do surgery, you still get screamed at an OR and told you leave, there's like the old school. There's still a little bit of the old school mentality floating around out there. But it's all good. I had an amazing time. That's cool. That's cool. So, what are you envisioning for your future? Are you eventually going to take over your dad's practice? Do you want to stay in the area? Do you have any growth goals or anything like that as far as career wise for your primary career? Yeah, no, I definitely, I'm kind of like, you know, having a point in my life where I love doing surgery and it was always my main thing. And I want to work with my dad for a couple of years because that's all we have talked about for decades. But also, I have this itch on the software having a bigger impact in dentistry. That's always, I was listening to what you did. You know, you basically were doing dentistry and starting, you know, DSI. It's like, I want to hear how you balance that because I'm kind of like at the point where I want to do both. But it seems like I'm being pulled both ways. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think that one of the important things that I realized early on is that I wasn't going to be, you know, the biggest consultancy ever in the first three years. In fact, the first three years, I lost a lot of money and my multiple practice business was offsetting the losses of my consulting business. And that's why there's so few practicing dentists that have real coaching and consulting programs because there's so it's such a human dependent business model, right? I'm not turning anything over to anybody else, especially in the beginning. It was one-on-one coaching. I was traveling to different dental practices, you know, coaching up office managers, coaching up dentists one at a time. And then eventually we kind of latched on to this belt system and elevated people within the organization that could help me coach and they could travel on my behalf. I still do most of it myself. But the growth was slow and intentional and although I'm extremely type A like you are obviously, I allowed myself just time for it to develop. Now we're going on, this will be our 14th year this year coming up. And now I feel like, you know, we have a very substantial footprint. It's grown slowly over time. Of course the podcast was very much, you know, throwing kerosene on a campfire that really lit things up and really accelerated the growth pretty quickly. But I think that you got nothing but time, you're early in your career. There's no need to try to live up to anybody else's growth trajectory or growth path. You can create your own, give yourself a little bit of grace. But the important thing is that you don't become half-ass in one thing, half-ass in another. You want to kind of go all in in both and then delegate, create an executive team so that at least to a degree, both of them are some of the less valuable tasks. The low-value tasks are offloaded sooner than later. So yeah, that's kind of, that's the small bit of advice that I could give you. But clearly you don't need a whole lot of advice because you're, you've been able to get to this point. I would say though that you're doing the right thing, whether or not you take over your dad's practice or you create your own little empire of oral surgery practices, whatever it is that you decide to do or scale your existing location or even keep it just moving at the rate that it is right now, you can never learn too much about entrepreneurship.
and business and management and leadership and culture and systemization, all those things. It's interesting that some of the people we have a rather large footprint now as far as members inside DSI, but the people that are further along, the Black belts, two degree Black belts, second degree Black belts, those are the people that come to the most meetings, attend the most Zoom meetings that engage the most in the community. When you think that those would be the people that would kind of take their foot off the gas, those are the people that are looking for any knowledge, any tidbit, any kernel of information. They're consummate learners. They never really feel like they've arrived and they never really feel like they know it all. So it's a matter of humility, I think. Yeah. So what's your goal for Cindy? You know, I think basically the terminology product market fit, like I think we've been tracking different metrics. So basically if we onboard a user, they'll let they want to stay, they continue to use their usage goes up over time. Like my focus for a while has been just how do I create the products so people want to use it. And my short term goal is like how do I share this with the world? But I think my goal is to create, it would be awesome to create like an actual network. Like where it's sizable, it's actually used by a large amount of our industry. But I don't have specific like Monterey goals or like I have, you know, I don't have an aspiration to get like acquired per se. I just think that if I could just solve this problem or even fail, I would be satisfied, you know, because at least I tried. Yeah. Well, that's cool. It sounds like you're getting some traction already. I think that, you know, if you continue to put yourself out there, we have a pretty decent footprint. We're not the biggest, I mean, I think we are probably the biggest dental podcast, but there's lots of big ones. There's lots of big ones. There's lots of conferences. There's lots of opportunity to get in front of people that would be really, really interested to hear more about a solution like this. I think the amount of value that you can bring to the marketplace is completely dependent on the size of the problem that you're solving. Right? So this is a relatively big problem. And if you're looking across the industry, we do a lot of things in an antiquated manner. And a lot of people are trying to save the solve the same problems. This is a very unique problem to be solving. So yeah, there's something to it. You got more secrets than anybody, because you are a specialist yourself. You come from a, you know, a legacy kind of family in dentistry. So you get to hear kind of the frustrations from both sides. And, yeah, you know, something I curious to get your opinion on. It's like when I talk to someone, eventually, I can kind of explain what the problem is. But most people will acknowledge that the problem exists. But changing someone's habits, I don't know if it's something about our industry, but it just seems like the way we do things is like so ingrained. There's so many like processes that seem they're impossible to change. I don't know if you've encountered that, but it's almost like people want to try it, but it takes almost too much effort or I don't know what it is, but have you experienced that with dentistry? Well, yeah, I mean, we've been kind of, this kind of been an undertone and a theme and what we've been talking about that there's so much complexity to owning and operating a dental practice. And I'll tell you it, like if somebody's coming in and they've never heard anything about a P&L or a cash flow statement or the difference between that and a balance sheet and all of those things, how a dollar flows through a dental practice, whether or not they have an operations manual or an onboarding protocol or weekly meetings or morning huddles or performance reviews or you know, Revenue Cycle Management, all of those things, you add that all on top of each other and you've got years of learning that needs to be done. So each individual little sliver of a problem goes in some sort of a priority list and disappears the lower it goes down on a priority list. What I would say is that when you're thinking about a general dentist and their desire to streamline getting people out of their practice, that's pretty low on the priority list, right? Because that revenue is disappearing. But I think that the sales pitch or the value prop for you, this is just off the top of my head, you can agree or disagree. But the value prop for you is if there are full cycle kind of entrepreneur and they are concerned about the patient experience 360, right? And they want to make sure that after the patient leaves, they come back educated having a good feeling about the person that you referred them to. They had kind of a seamless experience and it wasn't clunky and they weren't waiting and calling both offices trying to gather up data and you know, the referring doc knew exactly what was going on, you know, to a high degree from the referring doc, all of those things. If you sell that process, like, hey, you want to take good care of your patients. I know that the revenue is going outside of your practice. But this is a patient that we want to come back to your practice satisfied and felt like they were, you know, cared for. I can't tell you how many times I've actually been referred out by, you know, my primary care physician to a specialist. I'm like, I can't believe you sent me over to that office. That office is a shit show, man. How could you have done that? And you feel a little betrayed by the whole process, the clunkiness of it. So I think that the sales or the value proposition for your company should be something like, hey, make sure that there's some sort of a streamlined process and that all of the core values that you are instilling in your practice and the patient experience and how well you care for them gets extended over to the referring doc and then that process is seamless. That I think would speak to a general dentist, a referring doc more than like, oh great. So I'm eliminating a pad of paper, big deal. So I think that's how you frame it to make it more valuable to both sides. No, I agree. Those are great ideas. And I think with that, I'm totally into education. And I think that like from a specialist perspective, if you're talking to a general dentist, there could be a level of education on, hey, look, when you, when you use Cindy and you send people our way, you fill out the form correctly. Here's what happens when we, when we take the baton, when we take the baton, here's what happens at our practice. Here's our level of care for the patient. Here's how organized we are. Here's what our practice looks like. Here's, here's what's different about us in comparison to, you know, other options that you have in town. So you're, you're integrating now like the seamless handoff, the passing of the baton, that they're an extension of your practice now. And you're going to care for that patient to the same level and care that they're receiving from their freeing doc. I think all of that is really important. And I think you can easily bake that into Cindy like, you know, really, really leaning on the specialist to, to think of it that way. No, you're totally right. I mean, that's the, the most growth that we've seen is, you know, the specialist creates an account and, you know, they are providing a service to their referral partners, you know, to be more accessible, to give them more visibility, to have like everything centralized in one place. And that's where we've seen the most rapid growth. You know, and what you said, you hit the nail on the head, it's like, it's lost revenue for a general dentist. Like, let's just make this process like as easy as possible. And just so they have all the information they, they need, they're not left from the dark. And so the actually, the patient can actually come back as soon as possible. The good news is that most people have been referred to another office either medically or dendtally. And the bar is very low. You know, I always say this about dentistry. It's like, our job is pretty easy when it comes to patient experience because people are expecting to go in there. It's going to smell like you, general. It's going to be, you know, a step back into the 1970s. There's going to be shag carpet and, you know, spit bowls that in every operator. It's like, there's still a huge percentage of dental practices that operate that way. so like the the
bar is set pretty low. So to knock somebody's socks off is actually not that hard to do in dentistry when everybody's expecting it to be a miserable experience. The same thing. If the typical dentist is expecting it to be a shit show when they go over to the specialist office, it's going to be clunky and the patient's going to come back pissed off. The bar is pretty low if you can just do a little bit better than that. I know that you're shooting for a much higher standard than that, but there is definitely opportunity to improve the process. I hope so. Yeah, if you're on to something, man, you're on to something. I wouldn't have had you on the podcast if I didn't believe in the idea. So I appreciate it. Yeah. So just to close things up, what's the best and easiest way for people to either, I don't know how you guys do it, is there a demo or is there a representative that somebody could speak to at Cindy in order to get this integrated into their workflow? Yeah. So it's, you know, you could check it out today. It's Cindy referrals dot com and it's s i n d i. You know, another opportunity is you could just email me directly and it's just Brian B R I A N at Cindy referrals dot com. So I mean, I'm, you know, I've done majority of all the demos. I love doing it. It just feels like it's an awesome opportunity to meet people around the country. And dentistry is a small, a small community. Like there's always I've met so many people who know, you know, friends of friends. So, and now I'm going to name drop you. So, I mean, that could, that could work in your favor against you. I think most people, most, most people either don't know who I am or, or at least know that I have a decent reputation in dentistry. I've been doing this for a really long time. Yeah, I've only heard good things. Well, I appreciate that man. I appreciate that. Well, Brian, congratulations on your 14-year journey. I didn't know that about you playing D1 basketball at Gonzaga. Fun fun fun team to follow every year in the tournament. That's Cinderella story that's like, where is that Gonzaga place? It's fun to see the under that. I mean, that's the great thing about the tournament, right? It's like, you have these, these handful of teams that you've never heard of except for, you know, you know, that they've been to the tournament once in the last 10 years. I know that's not Gonzaga, but that's what's so much fun about the tournament. The potential upsets when you have a 16 going against a one. It's like, man, this is so much fun to watch and watch them hang for, for even if it's just, you know, a little bit of the game. Their eyes are really big and it's like they're from a small program and they're hanging with a Michigan or, you know, an Arizona or a Duke. It's fun. It's so much fun to watch. That's what everybody loves about the tournament. It's just crazy. College of basketball is so much different now. It's like almost unrelated from my experience, just with like the NIL money. I don't know if you're familiar with that, but yeah, dude, it's crazy. It's insane. It's just like absurd. So, I mean, I don't, it makes me root for the, for the smaller schools, even more and it makes them more impressive in my opinion. Yeah, I mean, isn't it crazy or what? I'm watching a college football game and this guy's like, the, the, the announcer's like previously with Clemson and then Auburn and now they're with Georgia. It's like, what? I mean, that was not a thing back in the day when I was watching and, and the NIL, and I L money is just, it's just crazy. It's crazy. But yeah, and for, you know, all of your sports listeners out there, like the transfer portal is almost just as bad as the NIL money. I don't know because people can just jump around. Like back when I was in school, it was like, you have to sit out a year or two years, you know? So it's just, it's, it's, they're taking all the fun away from college or it's true. It's true. It's true. We have two kids that came from arrival high school to our sock. My, my kids played football and soccer or my, my last kid in town plays a football and soccer and they, they were able to get two kids from arrival high school. They had to sit out half the season. And that's different. It used to be a full year. But, but yeah, it's because they're coming down a division or coming up a division. They, they were able to only have to sit out half a season. But yeah, it's crazy. I mean, I could talk to you all day about about college and high school sports. But for another interview. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right, Brian. Thank you so much for your time. Can't wait to follow your trajectory as a clinician, a practice owner eventually. And the founder of a dental tech company. All good things, man. Yeah. Thanks, Mark. I really appreciate your time. No problem. I didn't know you. Yeah. You too, buddy. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Brian Vescar. Hey, doc. Are you running or currently building out a large-scale dental practice? Then you already know ambition alone isn't enough. The truly thrive you need a strategic plan. That's where the expert team at professional transition strategies comes in. PTS works with some of the fastest growing practices in the country and is put together an exclusive resource for doctors just like you, the three Fs of successfully operating a large-scale practice. In this free ebook, you'll dive into three essential pillars of sustainable growth, footprint, finances, and future. And it all starts with knowing your practices value. A comprehensive practice valuation is the critical first step. Whether you're expanding your footprint, optimizing your financials, or planning what's next in your career. To get your copy, just email info at professionaltransition.com and ask for the three Fs ebook. That's
[email protected]. Now is the time to take your practice to the next level with a right plan in place. Hey everyone, Dr. Mark Costes here, founder of the Dental Success Network and Dental Success Institute. If you're a dental student listening right now, I want to personally invite you to something brand new that we've created just for you. It's called the Dental Student Success Network or DSSN. Dental school is tough. You're juggling classes, clinic, boards, and just trying to figure out what comes next. And many of us, myself included, remember wishing we had guidance from people who were thriving in life and business after dental school. That's exactly why we built DSSN. Inside the Dental Student Success Network, you'll get access to a private student community that's positive, supportive, and moderated for quality. You'll have real world resources to help you navigate school and your transition into practice. You'll connect with mentors who have already walked this path and want to give you the leg up they wish they had. We're opening the doors right now and we're inviting the first wave of founding members to join us. If you want to get ahead, build your network right now and access tools that will set you up for long term success, this is your moment. Just go to dentalstudentnetwork.com and fill out the quick application. Once approved, you'll get access to the community in our CE library. Dentalstudentnetwork.com. See on the inside. And that wraps it up for another episode of the Denylprenor Podcast. Look forward to reconnecting on the next episode. Thank you so much for joining us today on the Dental Prenor Podcast. Check out trudentilsuccess.com for full recaps of every show, a schedule of our live events, free video tutorials, and a whole host of practice building resources.
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