Why Overproduced Kabooms Still Hold Unique Value for Investors & Collectors

Hey guys, real quick before the podcast begins, I had will from kaboom cards on Instagram on this podcast. It's a little longer than normal, but I hope you enjoy it. Quick reminder for you, if you're not subscribing to the exclusive content that I'm providing on the Spotify app yet, please sign up. It's 499 a month. Basically, buy me a cup of coffee with that. You get two extra episodes a month. I've been doing more than that actually. And you'll also get some added assets with it, which could include white paper or spreadsheets to help you in your collecting journey. I appreciate all of you that do subscribe. Also, the ones that do subscribe, the National Landmarks episode will be out either Wednesday or Thursday of this week. Take care guys. Enjoy the episode. Will. All right guys, welcome back another episode of the 90s, a soccer cards podcast, the only one of one soccer card podcast in the world. I have the pleasure of having a guest, well, a K A kaboom cards. Is that right or did I give you the right name for your Instagram? Yes, it's kaboom cards and cards to spell with a K. Awesome. Well, give us a little intro into your journey into the hobby. We'll got you into soccer cards primarily versus the other sports. I mean, we all have a kind of that where we come in for a particular reason, but give us a little story, the backstory of how you did that. Okay, well, thanks. First of all, thanks for having me, Paul. I appreciate it. Been a long time saying of you and your knowledge of soccer. So I appreciate all that for the last few years. I appreciate you, man. Problem. I got into cards when I was a kid, collected like Michael Jordan cards when I could, and then, you know, as you get older, you kind of drift away. I just threw them in a shoebox and and then right around COVID, Gary Vee was chirping about, you know, Yannis PSA 10 rookie cards. And I, and I listened to Gary because I'm an advertiser in marketing for my real job. So I leaned on him for advice. He's amazing in every way. And I just was saying to myself, wow, you know, I collected as a kid. I'm good, but he kept just talking about it and talking about it. So I said, yeah, let me look into it. And then that's how I started getting back into cards. So I started collecting what I knew, which was NFL NBA. And then I got into soccer right as COVID hit. And then I moved up to my house in Rhode Island full time from the city when things went crazy. And I was selling my, I was buying NBA cards, a rookie cards left and right. And back then it was rookie base cards. And I wish I had known more about like numbered rookies back then because they're obviously more valuable than base, but I was trying to accumulate as many base rookies of the best NBA players and came across a seller who was selling me card NBA cards for next to nothing. And I asked him why he said he loves NBA. He loves the mix like me, but he wanted to divest for all his NBA cards and get into soccer primarily because he loves soccer, but also because of the pop counts were so low. So that's eventually how I got into soccer. He started really educating me on players. So I didn't grow up being a fan of any club really because I just, you know, typical American. I wasn't following international soccer. And I just started buying up players I really like like Kevin DeBroin, Levant Dowski, who are my two favorites. And then Mimbape of course, Messi, Ronaldo, all the usuals. And then he says to me, you got to pick a team. And I really didn't know who to pick. So I ended up going with Man City because of Kevin DeBroin, that's my dad and soccer cars. And now I'm obsessed trying to go to the World Cup match with France and in Norway coming up at the end of June at Foxboro. Foxboro, right? Yeah. That's awesome. You know, I wish I had known you before them because I were definitely made you a Bafika fan. You know, there's, I was out of respect city. I love, you know, they have the Portuguese contingency there. So, you know, I have to root for them, but and fun fact, Mateo Snoons is becoming one of the best right backs in the world at the moment for those that have been watching. But, but you know, those right backs, they don't get, they don't get the love on cards like they should. It's just, it is what it is. But, you know, I wish I had known you then because I would made you a Bafika fan. And we could still do that. You could still go to a Bafika game and Portugal with me. You know, that's the, it's a most electric place, I think, for football that I've ever been to. And I've been to a few games in England too, but Bafika is something else. Now, one of the things that's really interesting about your Instagram profile, and we've met a bunch of times and is the your, your Instagram handle, right? We all have our Instagram handles. Talk to me about Kaboom. You're kind of one of the, I like to consider you as one of the kind of really knowledgeable people on Kaboom cards. And you had the ability to, to foresee what those cards are going to do. Now, a lot of us, we love, I don't own any actually, but we love the design. The design doesn't really change. It's really unique. It's still a case hit. We know that first Kaboom's matter more than the others, right? That really important. But talk to us about Kaboom cards and why they're so important to you and to the hobby. Because in some sense, and this is probably going back to the question of the story that you just told about your journey back into the hobby. You know, Gary Vee was not pumping them, but he's just making people aware of these things out there. We as humans, we always go back to nostalgia, right? Of, oh, I remember when I was a kid, like, I remember the 87 top space ball set. And how awesome that set was with the wood grain paneling. You probably had the same wood grain paneling in your moms or dad's house on the walls. But, you know, looking back in today's world, I'm kind of like, I'm not dissuaded and I'm not a negativity guy. But, you know, I always wonder, like, would anybody really collect these things if they weren't worth money? And the answer is probably usually no, but like, we probably still would buy some things that we like. Because like, I think I've heard you say before that cards are like a piece of art, right? So again, you know, that sounds like a long-winded kind of explanation or question or whatever it may be. But explain to me your fascination with Kaboom cards. Why they're unique, why they're special to you, why they're special to the hobby? Oh, great question. So to make this as quick as possible, the first time I came across a Kaboom, I was in Monticee comics in Midtown, Manhattan. And I was looking in there, you know, the dual cases there. And I'd never heard or seen a Kaboom in my life. And there was a Yannis PSA, I think it was a PSA 9 2018 Kaboom. And I said to, I think his name is Eddie's manager, he was amazing. He said, Hey, can you just grab that card for me? And he gave it to me, he said, Oh, this is really special. He gave it to me. And I was holding in my hands and I thought, wow, this is the most incredible thing I've ever seen. This is, this is different. And I would just, it just, I was just taken a back by it. I couldn't believe it. And then I also thought, wow, I think at that time, it was like $300 for that card, or maybe $2, 250 something. And I thought it seems like a lot, you know, and that was kind of getting, that's when I was getting back into the hobby. So I didn't buy it, but I put it back, but I made a mental note. So I jumped on my phone and I started looking for a money bag. And I thought, gee, these are pretty cheap. $50. I was buying, I bought a Luca Donchich second year Kaboom for $50. So I just started buying them. And I thought, I was crazy in a way for buying them for $50. Even I thought, looking back, it was extremely inexpensive, but back then, I thought, oh, $50 for a card, and then again, because I was a kid, I never spent that kind of money on a card. And then I just, when I got it delivered in the mail, I just was really blown away by it. So to me, it was more than a card, it was a piece of art. And then I just was hooked that I just started buying them. And I was buying Brady and Messi, Ronaldo, early stuff, and just bickering them up for a hundred bucks, $75.50. So right now, and I've sold a few, which I rarely do, but the reason I did is because I'm able to take that money and buy better commons. And so what I love about it is a lot of the, from an investment standpoint, I love it, but also from a collector standpoint, I absolutely love it. And if I never saw one, I'd be fine with that. I love the seed of values going up. I probably have over just over 150 physical and I own probably, I think like close to 85 to maybe 90 of the NFT versions of different commons. And there's so many different directions I can go with this, but one of the key indicators was, so I show it to my family to laugh at me, I think I'm crazy. And then a good friend of mine, Kristen has an art gallery in Newport right over the bridges from me. And she's a real marketing genius. She's just really smart with her art and how she displays it and sells it in her gallery. So I went over there and I said, I have something special I would show you. And I brought her over a PSA 9 Brady 2018 kaboom and a 2014 Patrick Ewing kaboom, which is early stuff. And so I pulled out of my pocket. So I would have show you this and she, her reaction was she was blown away. I thought it was the coolest thing. And she said, other than Tom Brady, well, I don't know who any athlete is. I don't know, follow sports, but she was really taken back by the holographic design. She even said, I will give you a whole corner of my gallery when we have open gallery nights, where she has literally has a catered with hors d'oeuvres and champagne, that type of thing. People come in and buy paintings. Pretty, you know, pretty pricey paintings, some are some are. And she goes, I'll give you your own little kaboom section. And I really wanted to do it, but I said, here's the problem. I don't want to sell them. I don't want to sell. It's the problem. But And then I predicted that I thought kabooms and this was that was probably seven years ago, maybe six years ago I said do not be surprised if you go to art basil in the next couple of years and you see trading cards Pokemon cards those type of cards on display at art basil and then she's down there because she's an artist every year and like three years ago She took a picture and sent it to me said you were right. They were sports cards on display art basil I just think because they're so scarce especially the early years the 2013 was the first year That was NBA the scarcity factor the holographic design the appeal that it has to people other than trading card collectors Such as like comic book collectors have met so they all know kabooms and they go I don't even really care about Tom Brady But I love kabooms. So I bought one you know that type of thing. So I think they're just incredibly Different I know there's haters out there and I get it and you and I have discussed it on DM on Instagram about you know How many different messy kabooms can there be one of their like seven now? It's crazy. So I don't like the panini has like over produced in that way. I'll be honest Yeah, it allows more and more people to get a chance to get that card to get a kaboom card, which is a special thing Yeah, which I actually you know I get that part night when I talk about that stuff the production where there's more of them now and things on nature I think it's for me. I try to just educate people right if people are buying you know would I if It's in my wheelhouse where I could buy a Ronaldo or a messy for you know Sixth-year kaboom of mess here and I'm buying them because I want to have it You know what I mean because like you said they're they're beautiful pieces of art They're they're nice cards. It could be significance behind it like for example I mean, let's say you know I haven't even gone through the checklist completely with Donarest right with the world to world cup You know if there's a Ronaldo kaboom this year. Let's say you wins a world cup that kaboom is significant You know to me it's significant. We saw that happen with messy and things of that nature. Yeah the kaboom stuff Yeah, like you said the comic stuff like you're reminding you know as a kid I didn't collect a lot of comics. I bought some of you are in there But it reminds me of that kind of comic book theme, which is really cool those the kabooms are really unique In terms of kind of for the whole I know there's people that I think people out there that say they hate them They're lying. I think they actually do like them. I think they just try to be you know just haters to be haters Because they don't own any and they're their piss if they miss they miss the boat, you know Yeah, they miss the boat. Yeah exactly so I think people are like like I say all the time I wish I bought some too and I didn't Because I didn't you know I recognize that they were scarce or recognize that there were but I recognize it Oh, they're just an insert, you know, that's kind of how I looked at it Which isn't a good way to look at it and that's why I've kind of started to look at more inserts now and look at Especially even sps sps versions of cards. I think they're significantly important Coming off of the kaboom stuff, right? You look at a spes of certain cards, you know Give you an example one of the spes I liked from the last few years is from select There's a honeycomb sp in there and I like those a lot because they're really hard to pull And I think the sps get underserved. We're always talking about numbered cards and everything's got to be numbered But I think people are missing the boat, you know, a lot of you look at the stuff from the 90s right some of those inserts from the 90s And how important how valuable they are yeah, and I've and I've brought up like I know I'll protect us a really good job Yeah, with their hockey stuff. They do a really fantastic job because there are there are Significant inserts that they don't produce again. They might do a one and done and be done with it or like the hollow Types and if you ever heard of the hollow types. Yeah, they're one in 13. They're one in 13 cases. They only do one one player Well, they do players, but the player will only have one hollow type ever. They'll never make another one again So it's subsequent years, you know, I think kaboom is a good product to keep I know I'm saying this to like keep recycling players But if guys are still playing and they're active and their legends or whatever they are I think it's good to still do that because it gives people kind of an entry point Chance. Yeah. Yeah, because I'm a chance to really think about it. Do you? Get into breaks at all. Are you more of just as singles buyer? I'm a saying I used to I used to get into breaks to kind of promote the kaboom cards page You know, just to kind of kind of free advertising While you're buying into a break and I got like a two a rookie card. That was pretty good I got the AFC east was what I got in the break and I've done a couple But generally I just look at that is and I have no hate on it I think it's such a cool concept and the whole live social selling is obviously big deal. I'm gonna keep getting bigger It's just gambling, you know, you just to me. So if I know And that's the same thing with breaking cases like if I were to go to buy a case Cases of the Don or a stocker do you have any idea what that is right now? No, it's probably like three grand I bet it's a lot. I mean, I haven't priced it, but I'm sure it's a lot I don't feel like dropping three grand on a case and Search or I can just get one kaboom when the kaboom that I want like it could be the fronze back in power Which is really cool that he's yeah, he's not there in this in this new release that I've just bought on On eBay, you know and save that money rather than trying to break is to me breaking just gambling, you know Yeah breaking. I mean breaking is like I think it's a necessary Piece of the hobby obviously because it's how we get all of our singles out there to buy right I used to price a love breaking um, but it's fun. There's no doubt I started I started doing the math. I was like this makes no sense So I've stopped I think the last break I was in was probably like And it was probably like a year ago maybe and even at that point I was really kind of like struggling with the idea of even of being Be being viable like, you know, I was chasing as you own nabs early on getting through these top sapphire with his first like Top's released in the RC logo on it, but man the money I was spending on the bank because bought I was like man I could just bought his red for like yeah a lot cheaper, you know And I mean so it makes no sense for me it doesn't for some people it makes sense, you know I also I also believe like think the hobbies kind of like you said these case breaks like so expensive I think the hobbies kind of missed and I actually thought about doing this again I thought about like maybe I go back on what not and do some breaks of like just boxes where it's cheap You know what I mean where there isn't there isn't that yes, it's still a gamble But there isn't that monetary kind of investment into it. We're all gonna be 500 dollars for this spot It's like I don't know box. It's a lot of money. Yeah, you know, where you know Yeah, where you go man cities only 18 bucks for the box. Okay, I'm gonna jump in. Why not, you know, maybe I pull something You know, I mean Right a little more feasible because it's you were talking like Cost of lunch. I know before we came over talking about tacos and and food and you know How you almost spent 30 bucks on on some food, but like you know if you could do a one box break under like The cost of a lunch is probably fun. You know, I mean, and I think yeah. Oh, yeah that that part of the hobbies kind of like I don't know. It's kind of gone missing. I feel like a little bit become so money driven and I don't think it's a huge problem quite yet, but it could become a problem You know, especially when you see I want to get your thoughts on this. I actually heard a really good The president of upper deck. He was talking about his competitors. Obviously being fanatics, right? Being one of the competitors and he made a really good comparison Do you remember because I have a concept set so you know concepts, you know, they are legendary They they've done advertising with me. Oh, okay. Cool. Yeah, so I know those guy. I know Tareek. I know all those guys Tareek is awesome. Do you know do you know she man? Do you know she? Yeah, yeah She's one of my best friends. I knew all the old people used to work there That some people have left now obviously other people have gone on to bigger like I know Dion really well too. I don't know Yeah, that's cool, but but you bought up a really good like think about fanatics and ask to do with Nike and for the listening Like what's he talking about sneakers for this war? Do you remember a few years ago when Nike cut out the secondary market? Meaning not the resell market, but the shops. Yeah, so people like people like concepts. They still got their account But there are other accounts that like Nike took it away. They dropped them. You know They dropped them and this is important because the retail aspect and I don't think and you're in the advertising industry So you know very well how important retail is and he the upper deck guy he was talking to the president I think his name is Jason. Oh, yeah, it's Jason. He was talking about well Nike did that what happened to Nike? So what happened was what we're seeing today like hookah new balance on cloud those guys have all taken big market share away from Nike And I feel like fanatics what they're doing with the allocation Um, I you know, Felix are going down a very dangerous road right now Where upper deck doesn't do that um upper deck You know that the impact system on if you know about that, but um You know they can they also sell but they usually use the the local your local car chop as their This is the gateway into the market because the hobby was really found I mean you probably agree with me on this the hobby is founded on LCS's. Yeah, absolutely. I think I agree And I'm really worried about um, maybe I'm just kind of overthinking this. Maybe I'm seeing things down the road that I shouldn't see but I mean, what do you you you you're in the advertising industry you understand that and it's probably leads into our next segue With the direct to consumer because the kaboom cards or excuse me pinnie's blockchain where there's direct to consumer on their website how do you feel About what's going on in the hobby right now we we're seeing tremendous growth. There's no regulation obviously yet But how do we protect these LCSs? I think it goes back to us, the collectors, and the people that are involved in the hobby to protect these LCSs. I mean, do we got to push back on Fanatics or some of these places to make sure that they're doing the right thing? - Yeah, it's a great question. I don't know if I'm educated enough in the hobby to properly answer it. So I'll just preface it by saying that. But tops Fanatics, they have, they wield such a powerful sword in our industry that it's either you're gonna play by their rules or you're not playing type of thing. With that, that's a lot of power. And it's tough to overcome that. You know, I have my opinions, but I don't know, no, if that's gonna continue to happen because why would they canvillize the people that are getting the product out to the people? Like that doesn't make any sense. Why would they do that? Now they may be more selective, say they had a hundred stores in like three states and they said, you know, that's just too much distribution on us, whatever. We wanna narrow it down to say 75. Like I understand that from like a cost standpoint. But I can't see them just pulling back and putting everything into like card vault by Tom Brady because of that connection. I just can't see that happen. Yeah, which it's kind of interesting too because you think about it, right? And I don't, and maybe this is a question for you. Do you mess with like unlicensed stuff at all? Like the, it's like good one champions, for example, like upper deck or leaf, you know, like upper deck, for example, they have the young guns. They did young guns of Juonevs of L'Herménia Mall. They did young guns. It's unlicensed. They didn't exquisite for nevs. They didn't want for L'Herménia Mall. Nobody knows about that card. It's on card auto. It's like, I bought a nevs because the card's beautiful. Yeah, I'm a believer 'cause I like the quirky stuff. Obviously, if you like, if I like kaboo, then it's a little quirky. It's different from the norm. So I'm all for collecting, first of all, what you like is number one. But if you're doing it from an investment standpoint, you really, yeah, it's a gamble. You know, like for instance, right here, I have this Sabelinka, you know, auto. You know, I just love it. And it was not that expensive. I think it was the 25 bucks or something. You know, leaf, metal, auto. She's the best player in the game right now. And I think she's gonna go down as one of the greatest ever. I think that card could be worth something down the road. If it is great, if not, that's okay too, you know. Yeah, 25 bucks and really that much of a gamble. Oh, and it's leaf. But a lot of my buddies in the hobby love leaf. And they have some like Ronaldo, sea, mar, purple auto, you know, leaf cards that there's got to be value there, you know. Yeah, I think so too, because you know, for a long time, I was kind of like, I don't like unlicensed stuff. And then I started noticing like that, Juana, Navidad, Squizzid, I was or the young guns. The young guns is such a name in the hockey world. I was like, these cards are cool. They're doing this for some of these soccer players that they signed the upper deck signed. And I saw that squizzas like, I got to have that, you know, it's a tribute. I think it's 0304 tribute, squizzid, thicker card. It's like the LeBron rookie year, right? That same design. Like these are really cool. I like them. So I think, you know, it's hard for us to tell the future, right? Like how, how, like 20 years from now, people are going to care about kabooms. Maybe, maybe they won't. I, yeah, I think so too. But then like it's like, let's look at this real quick. I'm sorry. No, go ahead. Say, say, let's flip it. That's all the kabooms I have you own those kabooms, right? Yeah. And your son, what is he? Three now? Yeah. He's three. As he grows older, he sees that, wow, daddy likes these, these crazy cards called kaboom. Then as he gets older and older, he's going to inherit a lot of your set, right? Yeah. But as he starts getting into workforce and making money, he's going to go, I want that kaboom from 2013 that was Steph Curry, because it was the first year. You know, by the time he's 20 some, it's going to be worth crazy money. He'll want to, he'll have the means to buy it because it will remind him of his childhood. And that's why they're staying power with kabooms. Yeah, it's an nostalgia effect. I mean, I think that goes with a lot of things, you know, for me, it's, for me, it's been the hollow types of upper deck. I've been buying those up because, you know, the, the ones that I have are all, they're all grading eight. They're really hard to grade, but there's only like two graded and there's usually none higher. There's maybe one nine that's higher. There's no tens. The cards are just tough grades. They're beautiful cards. I love them. Not everybody loves them. They're not for everybody, but, you know, 20 years down the road, like you said, my son, I say, why are you buying these? Like these are, these are cool, you know, right? Or vice versa, where you bring somebody into the hobby with you, you know, as he gets older, obviously, and he starts opening things and then 20 years down the road, he remembers those cards, the specific inserts, right? Like us, like refractors in the 90s were like, damn, there's like only one a box. They were hard to pull. And now they're not appreciated as much. I still like refractors. I see refractors. I'm like, it's a cool card. So it's interesting to see how, if we could predict the future of the millionaires, right? Like, but we can't predict the future of this hobby. It's so like, it's just, you know, everything tastes has changed, right? So I actually, like lately, my mind's been opening up more to the unlicensed stuff and how imperative and important it can be down the road because some of them say, oh, I can't get that. Ronaldo Paniniato and Ronaldo's actually signing a lot less now too. People will know that he's not signing. He's not signing less. No, he's signing less. But we signed less. Yeah. Like I heard a little birdie told me that tops had wanted him to sign a lot of cards when he was in Atlanta for the, for the US, for the US game, but Ronaldo didn't come because he was hurt. So, but I've heard that he is deciding to kind of retract back on signing stuff too as well. He's got his fans, right? Waiting for him or something like that. But cards, it seems like he's really pulling back, which is a good thing for values and things of that nature. Why do you think he did that? I don't know. It's got to be a business decision, right? Like for him, it's maybe, I don't know. That who knows? I mean, because they have to pay him a lot of money for him to give the authorization to be able to sign cards. Yeah. He's going free, but maybe he's looking like the secondary market at all the money that people are paying for his autograph. He's like, look at all the money that people are making off of my name and my autograph. Yeah. Maybe it's like, you know what? I'm good. Yeah. He could be doing that. You're right. And he's a businessman, obviously. He's involved in so many, so many, he's involved in so many things. So it's hard to say why that's happening. But the, you know, so I think the solidest, the solidest of the biggest piece of the people forget about, you know what I mean? We have a, there's a lot of content produced out there. You know, Tyler's great from Cart talk. I love Tyler's. I love some music. Good dude. Good dude. Great dude. But then there's a lot of other content creators out there that really feed off the negativity. And I hate that they do that because I'm always kind of like, and this is kind of a self-submitting thing here, or I'm kind of going to admit something is that, do I want all those views? Yes, I do. But I can't, I can't stoop to the level of being negative. All these guys are so negative and it sells. It's like the news, right? You turn on the news. I don't even watch the news anymore. It's a podcast really. But it's all negativity. It's nothing ever good. And I think hopefully, now I'm trying to, even this coming year, one of my goals was to kind of start promoting the good and the hobby and being good and doing good things for people and trying to, you know, you see a kid at a card show, give him a card, you know, sometimes kids will be like, I don't want that. It's a number. And it's kind of like, wow, man, this is really, it's really ungrateful. The entitlement is crazy. I mean, I have a, I was at the all-star card show last month or it's actually this month in New Jersey. And one of the guys I've met at the other show, he's got a son who's a big porto, I don't like porto. Porto's on my team. But his kid loves porto. He loves Rodrigo Mora. I had two of his, I have two of his stickers, rookie stickers, autoed. I have one. I graded both of them. One came back a nine, which I'm keeping. And then there's a six. That's autoed. And I was like, you know what? So I'm going to give it to him. I want to mail today to him actually. I'm going to give it to him for nothing. Because you know what? For me, like, it's kind of like this. It's like, well, do I really need that? No, I don't. I have two of them. I already have one. I have a nine. I'm good with it. I'm listening. You know, if, if a young man like that really likes him, and I could keep it, give it to my kid, but my kid's going to become a baby and he's not going to be a poor dough fan. Right. And then there's people that say, well, it's a six. And I say, well, what does it run? Although PSA six rookie do in value, a non-autoedversion. You know what I mean? It's like this, this one was hand signed. I had somebody in portrait. I got a hand sign. So it got the authentic label from upper deck too. So it's authentic auto. You know, so it's like, you know what? That kid will enjoy it. He'll keep it forever. It's fine. Not a big deal. As people, I think sometimes I know I've seen you at shows and you vendor and you've been very nice to kids and I don't think we understand the majority of this hobby doesn't understand that we need to have that positive impact on the next generation of collector to keep them in involved, obviously, which is the other aspect is like, you bring somebody in or the coming in and they get, they get screwed like the whole break thing, right? Like they get into a break and they're like, they get nothing. It's like, what, what am I doing this during money away, right? Yeah. I don't know what the answer is that, but it leads to the next thing, this whole NFT thing with cards, right? These kids are growing up. So it's probably a perfect time for us to talk about this. Talk to me about the Pignini blockchain NFTs. Tell our audience about it. Give them kind of a, I don't know a lot about it. Do I own some actually? Believe it or not, I do own some. I bought some on Pignini for the heck of it. Just for fun. Pignini blockchain? Yeah. Yeah. I pulled anything good. No, I think I got an auto out of the line. 2022 World Cup prismly did of an Ecuadorian player. I'm nothing big, but it's like I have it, but I've bought some stuff on there. I have never hit anything really big, but talk to us about the what it is. So people understand. And then I'll ask some other questions of you because I am curious to get some other questions answered. Good for you to jump into the pond here to the NFT pond with Panini blockchain. I think it's massively undervalued right now. There's been great to be you know about NFTs because NFT had their time with like top shot, you know, NBA top shot. Yeah. And then it just it went so high and just crashed and like back to Gary again, he's a great educator, a predictor of many things and most of the stuff that he predicts is is on point and correct. And one of them, one of the things he said is he said something like 98% of all NFT projects are going to fail for various reasons. They're not the right utility, etc. Panini has done an excellent job with their platform. What's amazing to me is even though it's still virtually unknown to many in the grand scheme of things, it's been successfully, it's been very successful despite itself. You know when I say despite itself, Panini does zero. I mean zero to promote or market that product or that sector of their business. It's all on the backs of some of the biggest investors on that platform and collectors and people like myself promoting it on social, getting the word out there, talking it up at shows. I will say this about it four or five years, about 40 years, five years ago. I would be at Mohigan Sun show in Connecticut, Foxwoods in Connecticut, Fenway, up at Fenway Park in Boston, the Fenway show. And I had physical cards laid out that I was selling. And then I would talk, I would chime in a little bit about Panini NFTs and I actually have some tops at FTs and people didn't want to hear it. They'd walk away from me, they'd make fun of me, laugh at me. That's fine. Can take it. It's no worries. But now that I'm having those conversations, my could sort of ease it into a conversation because people ask me what am I collecting and I tell them. And now there seems to be, if there was 10 people, six to the 10 would say tell me more, or you know, I've heard about that, explain it to me. And then the other four, you know, you're always going to have naysayers. So it's an interesting platform because it's digital alternative assets is what it is. And it's this digital version of physical. Okay. So this is where it gets interesting because you have a lot of people that push back and say, well, it's digital. I don't hold it. What's the collectibility beside it? I mean, I understand the collectibility of behind it, right? Because there are several number of things. It's an NFT, right? They're all your number. Yeah. Yeah. And are they? So is there any use on the NFT behind it besides having the digital asset? That might be kind of a confusing question. But no, I think I know what you mean. Is there what utility? Is there what benefits? Yeah. And right now the answer is nothing other than the collectibility. And a lot of it depends on the athlete. So if you're buying messy Ronaldo, Yamal, on Penae blockchain, those go for big, big dollars because they have the reputation or goats. Well, Yamal is a prospect, but he's a worthwhile challenge as far as his viability becoming a superstar, which he's pretty much getting narrow right now. But yeah, you bring up a good point. What I love about it is when people come to me and say, well, I can't physically touch it. And I said, well, you know that 95% of my physical collection is in a vault or is in a safety deposit box, which is six miles away from my house. No one. I'll go visit them because if I have to grab a card because I treated with somebody or I'm selling it or I have people that just want to see the collection. I'll put them all in a box, bring them home and lay them out and they can all look at all the poohs and other cards that I have. Like I have messy Ronaldo match up cards and things like that. Like cool stuff. Yeah. So to answer that as far as I don't really have too many physical cards that I'm putting my hands on, it's the valuable, the real valuable ones are their stowed away. That kind of answers that argument. What I love about it, Paulo, or about them is say you and your wife decide, you know what? We're going to, well, we're moving back to, we're moving back to the home that we're moving the Portugal. And we decided we've got the kids, we just love, we love life over there. Everyone move over there. Okay. I would love to do that. My wife won't do it. Well, you will eventually, I think you will eventually. So you move back and then eight years from now, you say, well, remember that I noticed that you own a Hendrick silver kaboom on Panini Blockchain. Would you be willing to part ways with that? And I was like, oh, that's sort of, you know, it's a really good. Well, you have a gold one. How about selling me a silver one? And even though it's not listed for sale, the value of it, let's say at that point, if he keeps ascending, let's just say it's like we're $20,000, $25,000. You're like, I don't want to spend 25 grand there. I'd be like, okay, Paulo, for you, I'll do it for 15. All right, done, right? I say to you, Paulo, just make me an offer on Panini Blockchain. I'll accept it. So you make, you make the offer, I accept it. The card immediately goes into your crypto wallet. Okay. That money goes immediately into my crypto wallet. Or should I get the money goes into your collection, the money goes into my wallet and your card goes into your collection, that's the better way to put it. And it's instantaneous that this happens. There's no like, my god, I'm biting my fingernails, hoping that if it was a physical card, that it makes it to you in Portugal, where there's no theft, there's no damage, no lock, you know what I mean? You don't have to worry about edges, corners, surface issues, or centering at all with Panini NFTs. Everything is mint condition, mint condition. So that's another factor. So you take away the, it's what I love about it's frictionless instant. And I can make trades right now on my phone, right away. And I don't have to go, well, I got to package that card up for Paulo. Let me go to my safety deposit box in town, grab it, put some bubble wrap around it, put a little note in there, wrap it, address it, ensure it, send it off to you. There's a lot of steps with physical, which that's part of the game and doesn't bother me. It's just part of this that you don't have in the NFT world. Yeah, I noticed that I'm looking down on my phone because I went back into my, my what do you call it? The blockchain blockchain because I had stuff in there, but I noticed they've updated it too. It looks different than the last time I was in there. It updated it like as far as more compatible easier to use. Yeah, easier to use for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, you got, here's a, here's a Tyler Colac. I just base prism gold, shimmer, shimmer for 49 bucks. It's a gold. I think the same rules, you know, and I'm a guy that I like physical too, but like, but I'm like, the world is going to go this way too. Like you said, we're vaulting stuff already. Right. Right. And this is a way to transact. Right. Easier, better. And it's like anything else. You're still numbered, you know, like, like anything else. So it's another avenue, I think before. Yeah, yeah. Do it. Yeah. Yeah. As you said, it looks, you know, it's changed. It looks different. It's easier to navigate. It is so true because I lost my point. I'm so sorry. Lost it. Anyway, keep going. Yeah. Cause I like, for example, I had somebody three days ago. I didn't even look at it, but they had offered money for a Diego Jata prism from the world cup from the last one. I was like, I got somebody offered me four bucks for that. But like, you know, like four bucks. I'm not selling that card. It's like whatever it's fine. I just keep it. You know, it makes no sense. But yeah, I'm looking at it now. And I'm like, I'm looking through the marketplace. I'm like, there's some really cool stuff. Like, for example, the first one that popped up was a luminium all green of eight, oh, no, of five actually. Four prices, 3930 best offers 1500. It's not a rookie, obviously. I think it's probably the road. No, it's actually, no, it's La Liga. So, you know, and you can actually see on the blockchain, you can see the history, the sales price to the data, correct? That was the point I was going to make. And I'm glad you brought it up. So if I see you at a card show and more buddies, we, you know, I'm, I'm always very transparent about, hey, I bought this card for 500 bucks two years ago. So I got a 50, whatever it is. Yeah. But there's a lot of people at shows, I'll tell you, I spent X amount of dollars on this. You don't know if that's true or not, you know, but like I told you about my LeBron, I don't know if I told you about my LeBron, Capoum, I got it out of a $20, a $20 pack. It's a great story to make a short upon. He's my buddy Doug still well. He's on the blockchain shout out to Doug. He's awesome. He's one of the true OG 100s in the Pneini blockchain ecosystem. He said, Hey, Will, I know that you're, you know, obviously your big kaboom vibe. There's a special insert packs that Pneini blockchain is dropping. You should buy in before they sell out. Now this is going back like three years ago. And I was coming back from New York on a train for, you know, for meetings and stuff for work. My wife wasn't getting into late from Philly. So I was like, Oh, go to this local restaurant, go sit at the bar and order food. So I looked down, I'd buy the $20 pack for two cards. That's crazy. Because normally you get eight to 10 for 20 bucks. So, but I'm like, oh, these are special so that you could get a kaboom. So you don't want to throw $100 into it. So $100 bought five packs between dollars piece. First pack, I open up, pops up. The first one is a rare. It's a to Devon Bucker. insert, you know, decent card. Then the other one says epic. And I'm like, hmm, that could be a kaboo. That could be a kaboo. So I actually recorded it on my phone on my iPhone and it literally I have to find it off the post it on IG at some point. And it just you hit the button and just string and it opens up. And it was, I nearly had a heart attack. On the bar stool, it was LeBron James 22 out of 25, Kaboo. His first ever, first ever Kaboo. Um, Ft. And bartenders like, what's going on? I said, oh my God. I showed it to him. He's like, yeah, I don't know what any of that means. But it was like hitting the lottery. So it's been a tron. It's a wonderful guy, credible collector, both physical and in the digital space, reached out. I want to buy it for me for three years. He kept coming back and coming back because he owned all the other ones. He went out and bought all the other. He wanted to own the entire set. So we finally, we finally came to an agreement. And I sold it about six months ago for $16,000. And so you say, oh, I wonder if that's true. You can actually go to Penini Blockchain and find the transaction and see that it did actually happen and for what it caught for what was spent on it. So that's what I love is the truth. Yeah. The other thing, the other thing that's really cool is that I'm noticing now too is that, you know, I'm looking at the packs. I actually have a 20 bucks on my wall, $20.90 on my wall for some reason. I must have put it in there a few years ago. And they just never used it. But they tell you how many packs are left. They do or don't. They do. Yeah. That's really cool. Because like, for example, 22, 23 Penini NFT league want league Uber eats packs. There's five per pack. There's 15,000 packs left. There's a lot of packs left still of that one. But there's other ones where they're sold out. You know, like, I mean, you have a little league of 22, 23 Penini FT score, a league of packs, 15,000 packs of that's probably a Lemmean your malls. I don't know if he's got us. I don't know if you can you look at the checklist on there too. They do. Yeah. You can view the checklist. Yeah. You can view it. Yeah. So like, it's kind of those are all though in there. Wow. Yeah. This is the, I mean, who this transparent I hadn't got. I didn't know this like you kind of explained it to me now. And now I'm looking at this. I'm like, wow, this is very interesting because it's actually transparency here. We know the quantity of packs left. We know what's in those packs or what's available on the checklist. It's kind of like those rep, you know, you see repacks all the time and the repacks. You don't always know what's in there. You know, I mean, that's one of the kind of the problematic areas of the habit. This is fantastic. Yeah. It's so good. All because if you wanted to say go after a certain player, let's just use Yamal. Yeah. And you know from that set or that pack, there are X amount of Yamal's in there. You can actually go finding Yamal's and see how many of those have been have been actually ripped and opened. But people won't back. You mall. So you can get a sense of say it's number to 99. There's 38 still left in packs. So that gives you a sense of like, Oh, I have a real shot of getting a new mall because he's there's 38 of that card and there's 15 of this one and 25 of this one. So you can actually have a shot of getting a mall. So that's why the secondary market is really strong for pack resales too. Because for instance, in a recent drop, I bought 20 insert packs. They they had another release of insert packs for NFL. And they had purple, rare purple, number to three cabooms in there of like Jackson dark, those type of players like gold, my homes, that type of thing. And I bought they limit the num that's nothing that's cool about what Panini does is they limit you to only have any ability to buy 20 packs. That's it. So you buy it gives everybody a cap you okay. They cap you. So it has gotten so popular that like I said, three years ago when Doug reached out and said you should buy some these insert packs because they're going to sell out. And I'm glad I did. So I got the LeBron. But nowadays that would never happen. When there's a pack drop, there was a Llega pack drop two weeks ago. I think it was a Wednesday. It sold out 11 a.m. It dropped. Oh, it sold out in a minute 20,000 packs. So 20,000 packs at 20 dollars a piece is $400,000 that Panini made in one minute on that. Where what people are doing collectors are doing they'll buy like myself. I bought 20 packs. And then I ripped 10 of the packs to get something that I wanted out of it. Hopefully getting something good. And then the other 10 packs I just keep. I just have them and I can put them out for resale. And then I'm selling them for $40 or $45 a piece. Yeah. To cover your costs. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. I was looking at this. I'm like, I got 20 bucks left. I can buy a pack. But like those Llega they're gone too. And there's probably stuff coming up soon. Is is there anything coming up for soccer that we should be aware? There's probably World Cup, right? There's another. I forget the product, but there's another soccer release coming out soon before the World Cup on Panini Blockchain. And once that happens, I will I'll let people know I'll put it out to the I'll let you know I'll let the universe know I will, you know, again, it's all about transparency. I get this a lot too about Panini Blockchain. It was like, well, they're losing their licenses to the major sports leagues. Like NBA, they're losing. They're going to lose NFL. Like, what does that do to the value? That's an excellent point. Great question. I still think when as NFTs continue to grow, I know it was like a four letter word for many years because because it just drops so precipitously, you know? NFTs are going to be a part of our world. If you look at all the major investment banks, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, all of them, they're all into the blockchain. And that's where people are going to store information, collectibles are going to be a major part of that. So as that continues, it's momentum. I think people are going to look back and say, well, what were the first ones? What were the OG NFTs? So the fact that they've lost some of those licenses, yeah, it's going to hurt them a little bit. But like, I have a I have four Otani kaboom NFTs. They didn't have them. I'll be licensed. So it's like when you play for the angels. So there's no use in signal. There's no logo. And those things, there's only 219 in the entire planet on Peniniate blockchain. There's only 219 have ever been minted. And the cheapest that you can get it now is like $3,500 for one of those. Yeah. So I don't see that because you're buying the player, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I get that part. Yeah. I mean, I don't like, you know, for me, I definitely see that there's opportunity here for people to expand their, I mean, we should at the end day, we shall we shall we should all be diversifying where we can, right? It's hard. So yeah, this is interesting. I probably need to look at this more since I own some, I don't own any big ones. I think like, let me see here. I'll tell you what I own. Nothing big. I have a Ben, I have a Ben Simmons prismatic number to 500. Oh, it's that's big, right? That's a big one. Huh? I think I have one of the big ones that I have. Rand on one of his, one of his physical cars. That's wild. Gotta be a family member. Yeah, this is, I mean, it's cool. I need to look at this more. I got 750 reward points still to use. Wow. Okay. So I should probably use it on NFTs. I can help you with that. Also, if you give me offline, if you give me a list of players, hey, well, you do the research, what players have, I need, I want cards for these players. Find the best card. No problem. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. That means everybody's going to be getting into your DMs and like asking for help. No, it's totally fine. I'm happy to help. I'm busy, but I always make time and kind of, sometimes I don't sleep at night because I'm so excited about the, you know, the potential. Yeah, I mean, that that happens, you know, that's, that's awesome. I'm glad you, we talked a little bit about this. I think it's important that like I said, I think I want you to diversify where they can. And it's, you know, the, the blockchain such a big thing coming up. I don't think people realize, hope, you know, for years, you know, oh, AI will never be a thing. You'll never be a thing. It's happening. It's happening. People and blockchains are going to have the same situation. Digital. Yeah. This like in my world. So I sell billboards all around the world. Okay. Times Square, London, Paris, Dubai. You know, obviously here in the US, Canada, anywhere. When I got into the industry 22 years ago, 23 years ago, there was the amount of digital billboards out there. I think it was like less than 10% of the entire inventory, at least the United States. And now digital billboards make over, make up well over half of the actual billboards are out there. So the vinyl is going away because the independent operators like the, you know, the outfrants, the Lamar, the clear channels who own the billboards and smaller players as well. They realized the value and the ease of digital because you just send me a file and we can put it up in 10 minutes, five minutes, right? Yeah. Finally, you have to print it. That cost money. Then you have to pay guys to get up on to the billboard and post it. Okay. That cost money. Whereas if I put a bidigital billboard, I can have eight to 10 flips of different advertisers and I'm making the same money as I would if I always had just one advertiser on there. So again, it's shameless. So I see it in my world. So now with physical cards, I don't think physical cards are ever going to go away and I hope they don't and I'm a huge proponent and I own some, you know, a lot of Compared to most I don't but I have a lot of And I love them, but I really think like you say diversity is the key it really is and I think to see yeah, I think I think people I think people sometimes forget, especially as younger generation that I don't want to date myself here, but You know, you look at back and you're talking to me, let me see if I can do a math here right 30 years ago what 1995 96 right think about this for a second back then debit cards were not debit cards weren't The norm you have to go to the bank to get money or you had a passport where they would stamp your passport with the money you took out and the money you brought you know you deposited right that was only 30 years ago. It's kind of wild right is not It's so wild when you think about that because you just a banking industry alone that's gone digital completely it's no longer really I mean I carry currency here and there but not that often right currency is still valid but it's You need the digital you know the banking industry's gone that way everything else is going to shift that way to again like you said like I'm also a proponent that physical cards belong and they will always belong Because they're a piece of our people like the whole when they want to feel them that type of thing but the other aspect is the the blockchain such an important technology that we're all probably going to be dealing with in the next 10 years whether you like it or not right it's kind of I've always I've always said that it's going to happen it's just kind of the old if you try to do a parallel cards right we look at cards like we we've advanced now to you know cards of advance from you know just regular cards to serial number cards to SP cards to inserts You know there weren't there was any that stuff in the 80s or even early 90s that stuff started like 93 94 I think finance basketball is a personal like a refractor so it's like this stuff has not been happening it's just it's so recent I think people forget it's not that long ago you know what I mean Yeah and the proliferation of celebrities and athletes who are also in the hobby is huge as well because it brings so much engagement and attention to it that people that normally wouldn't be in the hobby are getting into the hobby I actually love that a lot of people hate that you're a lot of con you have you hear a lot of content creators bitch and moan about oh they're just here to pump like a lot of these guys are collectors and do they they're they're not selling their stuff either they just like it you know they're holding it and that that's what I mean like I like a lot of these kind of celebrities and these athletes that are collecting their own stuff because it shows that though that somebody who's as rich or has all this money has a lot of capability to buy whatever they want doing it because they love it it's an nostalgia feel like we started when we talked at the beginning of the show the nostalgia feeling why it's important it's an emotional tie for all of us to our childhood or to even a current event you know I talk about that Ronaldo opinion the instant card I have from twenty twenty one the euros with the whole team and the trophy I love that card I probably never sell that card because it's a moment in time that I will remember forever and it's something that yeah and I have it you know I think that's the big piece here I mean you have obviously it's a business now too but like anything things all everything turns into a business you know what I mean it's just tell the world works it is what it is but I think anything else you you you want to talk about like do you have any other insight you want to give you know you talk about diversification and I think by having physical and digital does that but I felt I was over not over investor I have a lot into puny NFTs puny puny botching and no regrets and I think a lot of it is going to be already it's worth good money but I think overtime is going to be worth a ton but I'm very heavy into that NFT and I wanted to diversify a little bit more so I've been actually getting into V friends okay which is a play because I'm such a believer in Gary and what he's doing and his passion and not only his passion but his team's passion they do great work and it's hard it's really hard what those guys are trying to do buildings and IP from the ground up and they're making strides I just see a lot of potential there in that in that IP so I've been buying other comic books like here's some right here you know and I you know they're only numbered to us like 15,000 that's it you know some are less also their stickers the cards and now they're NFTs and their series one and series two so not that that's a paid endorsement because it certainly isn't but I'm a big believer in them I think it's something to watch. Yeah for sure I agree I agree with that will pleasure always now you're being on here remind people where they can follow you on Instagram and if you guys have questions he's so good responding to a messages feel I think you give me the permission to have people message you about the NFT. Absolutely actually one more one more thing for you tops are they involved in NFTs too right now or they kind of work is it's been an interesting journey with them think so I have some early like early like early haul early hauling NFTs number to like no like low number minutes to 50 or 25 and then there's others that go to 99 that type of thing and then when everything in that world and NFT world just kind of crashed and like I said it was like a four letter word and I wanted to talk about it even people that own it's of it we're just like you know let's not talk about NFTs right now I think that really affected them they didn't like it because I think they invest a lot of money into that into that platform and now they just they don't really support it I don't know why they had us move it over to a blockchain I'm sorry it was already blockchain but move it over in a bridge to open sea so that conversion happened but they don't really dedicate any marketing or promote it that's all I know but they do exist. Okay yeah I was wondering because I you know I've been on the top site I'm like they don't really do any of that stuff yeah no they they have them but I don't I don't know if it's going to take some time and then them looking at what Penini's doing and it's easy to see the Penini is doing really really well and the overall ecosystem of NFTs like right up there with 40 you know y'all y'all club all those type of NFTs like we're right we're always in the top 10 as far as generated sales. How does that work though you know you probably don't know the answer this question but no if Penini lost those licenses it's a digital asset they can they're not manufacturing cards anymore you know can they have separate agreements you probably don't know the answer this but I'm wondering if they can have separate agreements with those leagues for only NFTs yeah I don't don't know because you think like why bring that up is because tops for example they have the sticker license for the NHL hockey but they can only do stickers they can't do cards. Some kind of like like wow that that's interesting actually I mean I'm sure those guys those guys have good lawyers they're probably made sure that they couldn't do that with you know professional soccer player in your big name but we they lost the license yeah they have the ability to still work with you Paulo yeah and you just and it's almost like the neat the Navs kaboom where he's in his PSG kit. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but you know it's yes she has got the blue with the red down the middle yeah so that's it would be an unlicensed product but it's still the player yeah I way I picked I just picked one up so I'm excited forward to come in the mail after it gets off the sea but I wanted to ask you real quick why is it like there's so many really good players like I love Louise Diaz I love 12 and the ASCII Kevin DeBroina those three guys there there studs like why don't their cards do better I don't understand it well I think part of it is this I think part one is probably I think there's a few problems number one there's a bunch of leagues so in America we're used to one league right the NBA the NFL you know and nobody's or the major league baseball or NHL there's only one league when Europe there's a league in every country right so the exposure is not there as big it is the other part of it is the timing of the games for example right I mean today you have the PSG and Brian Munich game is today it's gonna be a huge game. Byron's winning that they're winning I don't I don't think so Brian's coach is not Brian's coach is suspended today makes it even harder for them why I don't know what it was for us to something something happened and now you can't even communicate with the coaches on the field so I think that's a big disadvantage for them but part of it is that games on the three o'clock today okay so a lot of people are working at that time so makes it really difficult to the time is an issue but let's say if the champions league was smart you know they would make the semi finals a weekend thing they could do a Friday Saturday they could do one game on Friday one game on Saturday or they could do you know whatever the case may be that way people could actually watch or they could do both on Sunday do a back-to-back kind of like a workout they got to rethink that in order to attract the the US market in North America market so that's a big piece of it the other part of it is is so love and out ski right into Brian their guys kind of at the till ends of the career I don't think people understand how impactful and important players they were because you see it now where you know in the 2000s I think people took it for granted when you know the pure loads the Fiegos the R9s and Rinaldeno those guys were playing took it for granted and today in the end And today we admire those guys totally. But the other aspect is like, now these guys are not playing anymore. So tops, fanatics is flooding the market with their autos of non-playing day cards. So that becomes an issue. So there's less supply and soccer. So in its infancy stages, as compared to the other sports, like baseball has got history, right? The 40s, the 30s, whatever, maybe there's a long history there. Soccer doesn't have that history. But I think over the next, I don't even see five years, over the next 10 to 20 years, there's going to be a very big shift where people come and look and say, "The Bruin of Lewandowski, those guys, they're all time greats." I'm trying to figure out the best comparisons of those guys. It could be a Gisramsky type of guy, right? Or Lewandowski could be like a, you know, those two guys, a problem with those two guys is they're not very, they don't have a lot of charisma when they talk to the press. So people are very, very engaged with those guys. But I think if we look at the other sports, and I'm a man of patterns, look at patterns, and they're all the same. And I think we will see that in soccer, too. If you're in this for the long haul, as I am, and a lot of people are, the next 10 to 15 years are going to be really exciting. And then you have the World Cup this year, right? It's in the US, which is a big market. It's very different. It's very different than 94 because 94 we didn't have a league. I still don't watch MLS, but, you know, maybe that'll evolve eventually. But that's a long-winded answer for you. But I think those are the problems that I see here. And I think you're dead on. You know, I think the other aspect of it, you have marketing machines behind some clubs that do really good marketing for their players. Barcelona is an extraordinary job of marketing their players. Whether it be the hobby, whether it be shirt sales, doesn't matter. I mean, the market thinks Petri is the best midfielder in the world still. He's not. It's VTN right now. VTN is the best midfielder in the world. He's won the Champions League. He's the best in the world right now. At the end of the day, winning is what counts. The bruner for the time was the best midfielder in the world, too. You want a Champions League. You know, extraordinary numbers had the, what do you have? 20 assists. Bruno is one away from tying the record. Yeah, Bruno is massively fun. I think he's. He's unnoticed to people who don't know soccer. People. Well, that's the other. Yeah, well, that's the other. The other. The last. The last part of your question there is this is like every other sport, right? And I'll use whom I can use an example. I'm going to use. I use Brady and Patrick my homes or even LeBron. Well, actually, the bronze on a good example now because Lucas on that team, you collect one player from each team. That's the hobby values, you know, and the chiefs people collect Patrick my homes. Who else do they collect from the chiefs? There's nobody. There's nobody there. Maybe. Maybe, right? But his values aren't there. You know, I mean, right or like Brady. It's a Patriots. That's it. Nobody else really. I mean, now it's Drake. Maybe because he's the new QB. Sockers the same thing. Sockers same thing. Portugal. Ronaldo. It's not Bruno. People like Bruno is underpriced. Yeah, he's underpriced because we believe it's such a good great player, but he plays with Ronaldo. And I united. Yes, he's the best player there. But I believe Kobe, my new card, self for more than his due. Benjamin Cesco, you know, does I make any sense? But that's, I mean, I think that will self correct. Right. I think that will self correct eventually because like I collect your own nabs. I like your nabs a lot. I love him. Love is a player. Love what he does. Love what he does. He might be a city player actually next season. I don't know if you heard. That'd be awesome. That might be. It might be a 150 million for him. But he's worth every penny. I think in my eyes. He's worth every penny. Just the way he plays. His passing is ridiculous. Well, he's just, he fights, you know, he. Concent player that's just out there just battling. He wins. He wins. Doles before he wins. Doles against guys that are a lot bigger than he is. You know, it's just one of those players, but you know, you look at, you look at any team, look at France. It's in Bope. But yeah, it's, it's, you can beat you for Georgia. But he's not the world cup. But he knows he's probably going to, hey, by the way, he's probably going to score today because he's Mr. Champions League right now. He's scoring in Champions League games. I freaking love him. I love him. Yeah. But he's, there's an example right there for you. You know, he is a player that his cards. They're probably going up right now a little bit, not a lot. But when he was a Napoli, when they won the title that year, yeah, his cards were going crazy. But they're not now because he has PSG because you have other players there ahead of him when you look like Desiree duet. You know, even Dembelli won the ball on door. His cards and balloon up. They did a little bit, not a lot. So were you looking for France, right? Yeah. Look at France. Everything is all about in Bope. It's a Bope. And then you have a Lisa, right? Who's awesome. Yeah, it could be the ball and door winner this year too. He's amazing, but he doesn't get, he doesn't get the love and the attention or the price is that in Bope commands. And you talk about personality. He's so unaffected by it all like his personality. It actually works. Look at, look at Norway. It's Holland. It's Holland. Everybody else. Yeah. Yeah. And Norway's got a few good players. People like like in 20, a new sa. And today is slurred. But please be being ficus really come out of his show the last five months. And it's been a really excellent. Who's the other guys? The blonde kid. And they are a schluttrope. No, or it starts on. Or some African. Ode Ode guard for our. Ode guard. Yeah. Well, there's another one. So there you go. Like, but it's Holland. It's Holland or bust. Spain. It's the Luminium Aller bus. And they have Nico Williams on that team. They have some really fantastic players. Pedr. Pedr. Pedr. Yeah, the best men feeling in the world. Everyone says, right? You know, Germany's got moussiala, right? They got Joshua Kimmich, too, is one of the best midfielders in the world. He's been in one of the best midfielders in the world for years. Didn't that wait for a long time? Yes, he has. And you probably have fantastic game today too. Yeah, it's hard, man. It's kind of like if you're investing, that's how you have to look at it. If you're collecting, then it's different. You collect what you like and what you. What you. What you do. I think down the road. I think people will. A players like the bruna. People will appreciate. On that level. And their cards will be valuable. Zidana is valuable today. Is early stuff is valuable. That's what people. They fail to see. We get so caught up in this modern stuff. And then we look back and like. You look back at our. A mirlin of Zidana, you. A huge kid number to 100. It's a Don. Yeah. Non auto, right? That card. And the PSA seven. I think so for three or four grand. Recently. Non auto. And you get it. People ask me. Would you rather have that. Would you have an auto to 10 today? I said, I'd rather have that card. For a 10 today. I said, I'd rather have that card from mirlin from the 90s. No, what's your favorite product? Merlin. Select prison. Like, what do you think is your favorite? And what do you think is the most valuable? Well, to me, I think to me. That's such a tough question. My favorite product is probably. I'm going to say that's hard. Hard question. I think right now I think select is my favorite product right now at the moment. Really? Because that doesn't tell the same value as prison though. Does it? No, it doesn't. And I love prison to prison. World Cup is probably my favorite set from the top side of like Sapphire law. I don't think I am. I don't think I'm a particular favorite set guy. I think my particular card guy. So what I mean by that. I look at some cards. I have a few tops now cards that I think are just special or pinning the instance that are special. Right. That are unique photography. Like, does you all never stayed in club card? I think it's one of my favorite cards ever. He's kitchen kissing the Bainfika badge. He's like this, the image. But you know, you're loving that. So I love that card, you know, or the the emboppé name or messy card, the top's paper that was in flagship a few years ago. That card's a favorite card of mine because you have three superstars, three icons from this era that failed that failed. They failed. That's a failure. There's a story behind that card. Those three guys failed. They couldn't win a championship. I have that card. Yeah. Cool card. I have the base version, whatever. I think I have an IPSM grading. I like the car. Do you think there's worth there? No, I just like the story behind the card. Yeah. You know, there might be worth down the road. There could be. I mean, it's like there's a there's a tops now from last year's nation's league of Ronaldo and La Mine on the same card. No way. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't get a number one. I don't know. It's there's probably a lot of those made, but it's a unique card. You know, it's a unique card. Those guys, they never appeared on the card together. That was the first one I believe. And it was in a final, which Portugal won. So it's a, there's a story behind it. I think sometimes we look at cards and we think brand. We think serial number. We think these things too much. We don't start to try to understand the card a little bit more like the maculad you know on nevs. I have auto patch. It's of three. It's number one of three. It's a 10 10. It got the 10 auto 10 PC 10 grade two. Probably never sell that card. It's got the three stars from the VFECA logo, which is the two Champions League title and the Portuguese. So they won. So for me, that card's important to me. Right. You know, there's stories. I think we forget to look at cards. This is a collector's side. We look at cards and try to understand the stories. I'll give you another example before I kind of let you go. Because I know we both got to get working. There's a kid that plays for the Minnesota wild. And he happened to score a goal at the Olympics. Map Oldie. You know, map Oldie. It's a hockey player. He scored the first goal at that. And against Canada in that game. I have his RPA out of the cup. It's actually pretty valuable right now. I think the 800 bucks. maybe I could be wrong, but you know what? The cards are unique to me because his father was my strength and conditioning coach in high school. So I think sometimes when you can make these connections, and I'm not saying force them, but I think we can always look at like how we long went to my high school. I don't have any of his rookie cards. I want to get one. But like you make these connections to your, again, we're going back to nostalgia in those moments in childhood, or even the moments in adulthood where you live those moments. And you, I mean, if Portugal wins a title this year, like the World Cup, the World Cup, like I'm going to have to find a way to connect that nostalgia for the future. And I think some of us have lost that aspect in collecting. Yeah. And we're driven by serial numbers. And this and that where I actually think this hobby, you can self-sustaining your hobby, your own hobby, by yes, buying and selling things that you like. I think we kind of lost that a little bit. And that's how this hobby continues to grow. But exactly in my, I agree with you, how do I think if you collect from the standpoint of what you love, not so much what is going to be, what's going to make me money, I think you're in a better place. And then if you can't make money, well, I mean, I understand it is investment side of it. There's a collecting side of it. But I think if you keep the fun in it, is the most important aspect. One thing I want to say, I think an insert that's massively underrated. And maybe I'm wrong or I'm not up the speed on being educated on it, is the National Landmark Soccer Inserts? - Yeah, it is. - I just, you think they're valuable or did you think they're - I do, I do, I do. I'm actually doing a, probably releasing tomorrow or Thursday. I'm doing a podcast dedicated to National Landmarks. - Cool. - So yeah, I won't go too much into it now. I could talk about it forever. But yeah, it's a very, it's like stained glass. I think stained glass is an important one too for soccer, especially your stained glass. Those are very important. People know how I feel about those two. I think they're important. I think it comes down to like last week I had the discussion with soccer cards HQ. He was on my podcast last week. And that was, you know, trying to predict in the future what will like, what people will like, what will like is very difficult. Which is why sometimes you're better off just buying all these case hits and just holding them of any player that you might like. That's how it goes. - Right. - That's what it comes down to. Really, it's hard to predict the future. If we could predict it, we would be millionaires like I said, but. - Exactly. - I'm not one yet, but we're trying to get there. - We're getting there. We will. - All right, well, man. - I appreciate you man coming on. - No, I appreciate you so much, Paul. One thing I want to show you real quick, is that so that's a natural treasure, - Beauty. - And a tee. - Beauty. - Isn't that cool? - Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Anyway, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you.