Why Oral Health Is the Gateway to Whole-Body Wellness with Dr. Koroush Maddahi, Founder of Lumineux

It's always a changing landscape. I tell you, the biggest disruptor has been TikTok. I'm going to explain to you why. TikTok, people can have the most false advertisement, like things that reverse cavities. There's no product in the world that reverses cavities. They can say they're reversees cavities. They can have purple toothpaste, I said, the color corrector. I knew you were going to say that. It's not true. There's no such thing as a color corrector. That it doesn't exist. But they disrupt yourselves. They disrupt everything you're trying to do. But also it builds distrust in the consumer. Because they've been burned so many times that then they don't believe anything that you're saying even truthfully. So many people say, "Widen without the sensitivity, even though they have peroxide." You have peroxide. You cannot say "Widen without the sensitivity." I really feel bad for the consumer. Because there are being taken advantage of, there is so much false information that's being put out. And it's not being monitored in particular on TikTok. Welcome to the Glamon Grow podcast. I'm your host, Tacar Suit, ahead of partnerships at WaveBray. On this show, we talk with leaders of beauty, fashion, and lifestyle brands. We dive into their stories, lessons learned, and perspectives on how the industry is ever evolving. Subscribe and join us each week as we glam and grow. This episode is brought to you by WaveBray. Most brands don't email right and it costs them. With ad costs getting more and more expensive, a world-class email and SMS program is essential. This is why WaveBray exists, where the premiere email and SMS marketing agency that helps brands take their retention programs to the next level. If you want to learn more about partnering with us and how we can help, schedule call with me today at WaveBray.co/call. (upbeat music) Joining me today on Glamon Grow is Dr. Kroish Madahi, founder and CEO of Luminos. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for having me, Tacara. I am so excited to talk to you and I'm really excited to dive into this topic 'cause I've actually never had dentistry on my topic, which is a very interesting category for a variety of reasons. Health, the teeth, all of the things. But before we dive into the brand, tell me a little bit about your background. You've been a dentist for decades and you've really focused on anti-aging dentistry, which I find really interesting. So at a high level, tell me sort of how you got into it. Did you always want it to be a dentist? Yeah, so first of all, I wanted to become a dentist. I decided at age 13. This is something that people have a hard time believing, but that's, I love to work with my hands and I love to problem solve. So problem solving. So even if there's plumbing, electrical, anything with hands. Wow, you're like this lucky. I would love to do it. I love that. So it was, and also the family, my family, my brother is a cardiologist, my uncle is a general surgeon, my sister, I was an industrial psychologist. So if you're a health care background, so I definitely wanted to be in the healthcare. Okay. I wanted to work with my hands and I wanted to problem solve. So it was either being a surgeon or being a dentist, right? And I saw my uncle's lifestyle that getting up in the middle of the night, going to do surgery. I said, that's not what I want. I want to happen. More structure schedule. So dentistry was it. And I became a dentist at age 24, graduated from USC School of Dentistry, always urgent to get to my goals. So this is part of my personality. So there's a scientific background and then there is a goal oriented background in my personality. So I started practicing in Beverly Hills in 1987 and about 10 years in, I became just a cosmetic dentist. I saw all I did. I didn't do anything but cosmetic dentistry. Early 2000s, I started to focusing on smile makeovers and coming up with ways of how you can do smile makeovers very quickly. And when you say smile makeovers, is that more or something as serious as like a cleft palate or more cosmetic? No, more cosmetic aspect in terms of people wanting to have a white teeth, but it's not only with whiting. It could be a combination of whiting, some bonding, vineyards, crowns, the whole mouth being reconstructed, bite being reconstructed, and then the smile also getting reconstructed. And then I started to work with different plastic surgeons, cosmetic dermatologists, and we came up with how do we do a whole body makeover? - Wow, I think we all need that these days. - Yeah, yeah, whole body makeover, which was very interesting experience. One thing that I learned through that experience was that I always told the surgeons, let me do the teeth first, and then you do everything else. And they kept asking me, and they asked me why? I said because what's happening is that the teeth is what is giving the structural support to the face. - Wow. - And they still didn't understand what I mean. I said, you know, the width of the smile, where the teeth are meeting the upper lip, lower lip, all of these things has an impact on how the face looks. And I said, don't be careful, someone who's 20 or 30, they have fat within their tissue. So some of the structural support of the teeth may be hidden. You don't know if it's good or bad, but as they lose that fat, all there is to, as a structural support is the teeth. - That's so interesting. - So if the teeth are not in the proper place, you're gonna have issues in terms of wrinkling around the lips in the face, all of those because of the position of the teeth. - Wow. - And they said, okay, so we don't fully understand what you're talking about, but okay, we let you do the teeth first. And we started to do actually smile makeovers and we started to do whole extreme makeovers. We were on TV doing different TV shows and I was doing the teeth first. And the first comment to me was, once you did the teeth, the way I had to reconstruct the face completely changed. - I've never heard anybody talk about this, but that makes so much sense. - Yeah, and that's where I finally decided I'm gonna write a book called Anti-Aging Dentistry. The whole word anti-Aging Dentistry was invented by me and now everybody's talking about anti-Aging Dentistry. But that was whole basis of it. How does the teeth support your face and what happens if there's not proper support? - And what you say support, just to break that down a little bit, is that because people's teeth are not in the right spot or they're getting weaker or a combination of the two? - It actually a lot of it is not being in the right spot. So I'm gonna give you an example. - Oh God, no, I'm so, am I teeth okay? - There you are, your teeth are, you look beautiful. So somebody, you look at somebody, they have a really thin upper lip, thinner than their lower lip. What I will tell you is that their upper front teeth is either going inward or is not fully where it should be. - Wow. - That's where the thin upper lip comes from. It's not for any other reason. It's the position of the teeth and the jaw. - So it's not, it's not some people's lips are more dense than others, it's really just the teeth. - Oh, that's so interesting. - Yeah, the teeth has a lot to do with it. So I would say more than 90% is the teeth. And it's vice versa is true. What if the lower lip is thinner than the upper lip? Is because the position of the lower jaw and lower teeth is not in the same thing. You see sometimes hollowing out of the face is also the arch may not be wide enough under upper teeth. If the arch is not wide enough, the face starts to get sunken in. So all of these things has a role and the whole concept of cosmetic dentistry is that's what it is. So studying it, reconstructing it, making teeth and venerars and crowns are a bit thicker to make the smile wider was the way to create that what was deficient. - That is fascinating. Have you found people have avoided surgery or like changed what surgeries they were gonna get as a result of changing their teeth? - Quite a bit, quite a bit. - Wow, wow. - Yeah. - So that's interesting. You can start with your teeth before anything else. What are your thoughts? Obviously you sort of pioneered this and it's great for your business, I'm sure. But what are your thoughts on this movement into so many cosmetic procedures? People getting everything done in their 20s and 30s. I don't have venerars and it's like for the first time in my life, I almost feel like that's self-conscious that I don't, but the first time I actually even thought about like wow, I would like to have them because everybody's getting them. Do you think people are doing them too young or do you think it's sort of part of this being proactive in the anti-aging? - Yeah, I think the movement, I don't 100% agree with it. And I tell you where the movement started. So I've been a dentist for 38 years. That means I have seen all sorts of trends. And I have seen the start, what started the trend, right? If you ask me what started the trend of people getting venerars in their 20s was because of Instagram. Instagram was the main thing. And what happened is that people are looking at them. have some more because normally you don't look at yourself. But now selfies, pictures, posting, this, that, everything else. It made you so self-conscious. And I can tell you because I worked with a lot of models and they're also exhausted with the Instagram postings. I think we all are exhausted. They are exhausted. So even successful people that are naturally gorgeous and everything else. They say, "This is so much work." And I'm seeing things in myself that are deficient that I never thought about, but because I'm constantly posting, I'm seeing it. So part of the movement is because of that. Not because there is really something wrong. It's because you're now constantly comparing not only yourself and how you look, but also your lifestyle, also to others, which all of it cannot be true. You know, you can do so many things with the picture that makes looks perfect on Instagram, but in reality, you don't look like that. But it makes you more self-conscious. So I do believe that people are doing it too young. There's too much going on. And I can also tell you that 30% of the people that came to me, they say, "I won veneers." I told them, "You have beautiful teeth. Just the whitening would be enough." That's wonderful to hear. The reason I'm saying this is because there's something about natural teeth that you cannot replace. So the color has to be so off. The position of the teeth have to be so off. There's rotations in it. Things have to be so off for you to want to go into that area of wanting that whiter teeth. With one exception, there are certain actresses or models that they wouldn't get a job unless they had really straight beautiful teeth and white teeth. And some of that would be impossible because of their job. So their livelihood depended on their smile. So there were exceptions in that case. But ordinary people, if their teeth are in the right place, everything looks good. Just the color needs to be adjusted. I would still go with whitening. I know there's an actress recently. I don't even want to call her out or give life to it. I'm sure a lot of people know who I'm talking about who's on a very popular show that has teeth that have character. Let's say that. There's been this backlash and this controversy like focusing on her teeth. It's been so nice to see people praise her for just being herself. I think that's actually what's made her successful. She's just more authentic. I think we're sort of in this transition time of people, everybody looking the same, everybody having this doing the same thing versus people like staying true to things that make them unique. So kind of finding a hybrid between the fake and the real, I think, because it is a lot of pressure. And yeah, I feel like even for my teeth, I've always taken care of my teeth, always been praised for my teeth. And now I'm not having veneers. It's like, oh, it's not even. Bachel anymore. It's like, really, I've seen the trend the last couple of years. It's like vastly different than how it was. I'm curious in these trends, because you've seen them probably come and go. Have you found a lot of people have regretted some of their choices and looking so fake in some instances or doing things too early or just like one thing, you know, as you get older, you get veneers. I think that totally makes sense. But these teeth have to last with you. Do they have to get them redone by the time they're in their sixies and seventies? Most of the times there may be a 10, 15 year mainly because there is a gumbry session as you get older, they can chip, they can do other things that can happen to it. So you're thinking maybe 10 to 15 year life span with it. So if you do it very young, you have to be thinking about doing it at a later age, the older you know, and it's not cheap. Yeah, it's not cheap. And then the later you do it, the less you would have to do it because the life span and also the kind of the things that you're looking for at age 70, 80, 90 would be very different, you know, even though I had one patient, I was 89. She came to me and said, I want white teeth. Good for her. I want, I said, I want the whitest teeth. I said, why, why is it that you want? When I die, I want to die with the whitest teeth in the world. So people have their own, their own things, their own preferences. But in general, in general, if it's stopping you from smiling, if it's, if it's smiling you from going out dating or anything, and I have had a lot of people, there are some people that would not go out because of the way that their teeth looked and things like that. So that is it. These are circumstances where those white teeth would help them a lot. Absolutely. I want to talk about oral health because I've always found this fascinating, specifically in dentistry. And I've always taken really good care of my teeth as a byproduct of taking care of my health. So that's something I've always been like really cognizant of. But I think it's really come to the forefront oral health affects your gut health and all the things. So I'm curious what your thoughts are on that and like how someone can best genuinely take care of their oral health, not just for vanity reasons. So I think this is an amazing subject. This is something I've been involved in researching for over 20 years. This is a passion of mine. And this is the whole thing about the scientific aspect of my personality. So definitely your mouth is the gateway to the rest of your body. So oral health is a key point to the rest of the body. And mainly because what you eat, what you put in your mouth can get absorbed into your body in multiple different ways. So a lot of the times we look at we eat something with chew and with swallow. So whatever your swallow goes into your gut, so that's true. It's the connection between the oral health, gut health. But also if somebody is having a heart attack, they put natural glycerin pills underneath their tongue. Why do they do that? Why do you put vitamin B12 tablets underneath your tongue? Because you will actually bypass your stomach and you go directly into the bloodstream. So that means that the tissues in your mouth absorb things very rapidly into the bloodstream. Okay. So what happens if things get into your bloodstream? When you get to your bloodstream, it can go to your heart and it can go all over your body. So you can spread throughout your body with the blood system. So you're not no longer thinking about chewing and going into your stomach is now everywhere in your body. Okay. And then when you have ginger virus, that means if you're flossing and if you're brushing your teeth, your gums bleed, that means there's an inflammation and there means active bacterial infection that's going on. Right. So if you have any inflammation, what happens is also because of that inflammation, things can get into the bloodstream easily because of the inflammation you have in your gums because it bleeds and then it has things that it can get into the bloodstream as well. So now what you're talking about is that let's say people that have poor oral health, there is gum disease or things that are starting. What happens is there is a correlation between gum disease with heart disease, with kidney issues, correct or cancer, Alzheimer, all of this is because of these types of bacteria. Your toxins and also the inflammatory markers goes all over the body. That's why the whole body gets affected due to what's going on in the mouth. So we really have to look at the mouth as the center point of what is happening with the rest of the body as a number one entry. Okay. And now we go at it. What is what are we putting in our mouth and how is it impacting us? So before I go into the oral care products, I'll just tell you when you drink alcohol, you're killing the entirety of the microbiome that's trying to protect you against disease and infection in your mouth. You destroy it and then when you swallow it, you are destroying the gut microbiome as well. Yeah. So alcohol is one thing. Are there any foods or drinks or anything that aside from the obvious, I assume alcohol that would have been the case. Do you not drink at all? I don't drink. Yeah. I was new. You're going to say that. It's actually really interesting. I feel like there's this huge movement where people drink either not at all or significantly last, but I'm curious if there are any other foods or drinks, i.e. energy drinks or soda, you know, anything that like is your no-go list aside from alcohol. So instead of going to the drinks, I'm going to say something. So every time you're eating, actually, I'm talking about meat. I'm talking about vegetables is all contaminated. What does that mean? The meats have antibiotics in it and it has hormones in it. The antibiotic is destroying the microbiome in your gut, in your mouth. And the hormones are changing what's happening inside your body. So having grass-fed meat that is also organic and all of these things are making sure that there's no hormones, that there's no antibiotic is a key. Chicken is the same thing. You've got to make sure that there is no antibiotic hormones as well. When you're talking about vegetables, if you're eating things that are not organic, the pesticides are antibacterial. Well, they're pesticides are really difficult to avoid all of these. This is key. So it's really it become a fact that the water is to some extent the water is contaminated, which again, it impacts all of the vegetables and everything that's grown, including like we have fluoride in the water, that means fluoride is in everything. So apple, pear, cereal, broccoli, potato, there's fluoride everywhere. So now there's fluoride, there's pesticides that are being put on and then there's some level of pesticides that gets into the water system. So even organic food to some extent, as pesticide in it, just because of the water. So you have a combination of water that's contaminated, the food source is contaminated and we're dealing with this in terms of the whole human health and then you start to understand why there is chronic issues, chronic disease, right? And then we get to the oral care products. So I don't think people use anything on a daily basis like their oral care products. There's nothing that they would do on a daily basis, exactly the same. Maybe skincare, but yeah, maybe skincare. But skincare now also the skincare has changed. Now the skincare has it changed, it has become clean ingredients because we understood that it's a microbiome. And the subject is what is a microbiome? A microbiome is a sort of a diverse group of microorganisms that mostly made up the bacteria, some good, mostly good and some bad bacteria in it, some viruses, some fungized, all of these things are mixed. But what it's main task is to protect you against disease and infection. So if somebody, and how I started to understand this is, I was asking the questions, how do you be survived for thousands of years without modern medicine? How are we here? How are we here? So one of them is the survival of the fetus, which is a good thing because all the weak people genetically inferior, all of these different things get handled through this survival of the fetus in years. I think we're still doing that. And you're still doing that. And then the other part is the microbiome. The microbiome is on our skin, is in our eyes, in our nose, in our ears, in our mouth, in our gut, in also the birth canal. Right? And that microbiome is really taking up space. Number one, real estate. So if it's taking up real estate, that means any bad bacteria, any viruses that are coming into your body, if the real estate is already been taken up by your microbiome, it can't stick and grow. So that's the number one thing microbiome does. So to the extent that you destroy it, you leave room for bad bacteria and viruses to come in, into your mouth or on your skin or into your gut and start to grow. So that's number one. Number two is also that it works symbiotically with your immune system because it carries low levels of bad bacteria and viruses. It helps your immune system to produce antibodies already because it carries some of those things. In there, as a result, if the numbers grow to a certain level that's way too high, the antibodies are already there to fight them off. So that's how the microbiome works. So now we come, say, okay, let's really find ways to protect this microbiome. So this whole crave in terms of the craze between the skin care and gut microbiome, skin microbiome became really into view. And there's a lot of things that people are eating, drinking, everything that is microbiome safe. And in terms of the skin, it became clean ingredients that doesn't destroy the microbiome. And all of the ingredients 20 years ago, they were destroying the microbiome all the time. It changed. It is so unfortunate in our society, country, however you say it that we have to be so actively seeking these things out. It's so frustrating that all of the products aren't just standard made like this. And then people have their choice of what they want to use, but it's not as difficult. But it is changing. It is changing. More and more of the products like in the skin care, you see so many now that are actually have clean products that doesn't destroy the microbiome. It has become, people have become more educated because the, so the pendulum swings one way or another. You think you can use anything, do anything. And then you realize, no, I can't. And then it comes back to the more natural things of how they be survived and how what are the good things for you. So then when we go to the oral care, there hasn't been enough change in the oral care. This is what's mind-boggling. So I never thought about creating an oral care product. I've had multiple businesses. Okay, that was in my next question. Yeah. Why would I want to go create a consumer package good, something because it takes so much time, takes so much money, it takes so much effort. And in the oral care space, there's mainly three or four companies that control 90% of the oral care products in the world. Why would you want to go against multinational, multi-billion dollar companies? And that was the problem. The problem was that they have harsh ingredients. They're not microbiome safe. They're not enamel safe. There's so many different things in it that you've not got to get to. I've heard that toothpaste is actually the most toxic thing you can be using. On somewhere on social media, I saw there's a strip on some brands, I guess I won't say who they are, that indicate they have this ingredient. That's the most toxic thing you can be putting in your body is actually in toothpaste. Yeah, there were some things in TikTok and then went into Instagram with regards to the coloring of this strip, which was not correct. That coloring on that strip is not right. The toothpaste can be a very toxic type of a product. In particular, products that had tri-close in it, which was an anti-bacterial, which started to get banned by the FDA. But there's a lot of harsh chemicals in all of the toothpaste. And then there's this whole controversy regarding fluoride. The main issue with the fluoride does fluoride make your teeth stronger. Absolutely. There's no doubt about it. But part of the problem is that the amount of time that the fluoride needs to be in contact with your teeth, that brushing that you're doing is not enough contact point. Also, the issue is also because of there is fluoride in the water and everything we're eating, there's fluoride in it. Fluorosis has become a bigger issue, which causes brittle bone, yellow bone, sometimes yellowness on the teeth comes from too much fluoride. So that's the whole controversy about that. But the harsh chemicals, synthetic preservatives that are put into our toothpaste and then the alcohol in the mouthwash, the things that we are doing, these on a daily basis, became so much more worrisome. And I started to talk to one of my friends and colleagues who is Dr. Nozari, who was a chairman of the USC graduate program on periodontics, which is the Gump surgery department. And I talked to him, I said, you know, I'm not finding products that have really clean ingredients. And some of my patients, I don't get the benefits from these products, be it natural, be it traditional, be it prescription, what do you use? And he was saying, see salt with water. I said, that's what you use, which are patients as a periodontist. Yeah, that's what I use. That's the only thing I said. Why I know, I mean, all of us growing up, we've heard about this, Ritz, Ramos, with salt and water. I've actually never heard that. That's interesting. Yeah. And I said, why do you say this? What's the background on this? What's your thesis behind this? And he says, I did a study, it's a 10 year study on homeless kids in Manila. They were suffering from gum disease mainly by a particular bacteria called AA bacteria. Now, AA bacteria infects more than one and a half billion people in the world. You see it a lot in Asia, Middle East, South America, but it has not penetrated the United States because we have a lot of people, migrants and everything that carry this. And the main thing about this bacteria is attacks the gum and the bone around your four upper teeth for lower teeth and your first molars, nothing else. Everything else in the mouth is okay, except this area. You have bone loss and gum recession. And he asked these kids, homeless kids, to rub sea salt under gum. There's these people are in Manila, homeless kids. They don't have any toothpaste. They don't have anything. And it's a rough sea salt under gum twice a day and he followed them for 10 years. And there was an astonishing result that was that the gum disease stopped even though the AA bacteria was still alive. So bacteria is alive, but the disease stopped. So this is, it really gives you pause is why are we going and killing everything? If the bacteria alone is not the issue because killing bacteria has other issues that is coming up, comes about. And main thing is that 98% of the bacteria that's in your mouth are good healthy bacteria that's helping you. There's 2% that's bad, but we're killing 99.9% of the bacteria. bacteria because of those 2%. So the sort of the thinking was, what is then, what's causing the disease? Is the toxins that they produce? Is not the bacteria. Is the toxins? So if there is a way to neutralize the toxins, then we can stop the disease. So that's when we started to look into Dead Sea Salt because it is a very mineralized salt. So if you use table salt, it's not as effective because it has no mineral content. Sea salt has 20% mineral content. Himalayan salt has 40% mineral content. And Dead Sea Salt is 84% mineral content. And then there are essential oils that are very amazing in terms of breaking down of the plaque. And using the oil, not extracts. So I started to use different oils and for bad breath, clove and basil are very effective. Ginger is the most effective, but it has a very bad taste. You can't really put it in the mouth or show a toothpaste. The taste would be awful. And then. Like people do it. Yeah, they really would. But on a daily basis is difficult. Every day on a daily basis. So then also, aloe vera. Aloe vera is very soothing to the gums and then zylitol because zylitol is a sugar alcohol that the bacteria cannot process and they starve. So these were the ingredients I came up with. They're all good for you. And then we started with one mouthwash. And I started to see the results of using this type of a mouthwash in the mouth was. Yeah, the mouthwash is very different than anything else I've ever tried. Yeah, yeah. And that's the reason. There's no preservative. There's nothing, there's no harsh chemicals in it. All that's in there is all good for you. And it's there to make sure to give you pink gums, to give you clear saliva because the toxins are being neutralized. But it takes a while for toxins to get neutralized. So when you're doing a lot of research, by the way, we've done more than 73 research, which is also unheard of for a small company. But because we are scientists, we can't sign it doing research. And in the world of research, if you don't use a product in oral care product for one week is called the washout period, the effect of it is gone. Wow. You don't really have to be consistent. You have to be consistent. And also that's a good news if you're using something that's harsh and bad if you don't use it for one week, the effect is gone. That's how quickly the bacteria grows in your mouth. So I'm just replaced. So that's how this whole company started with this mouth washout. I was trying to do something for my own patients because I was seeing problems. And I think that's the best way to invent something because there's an actual problem that you have to solve and there's no other choice. And you don't feel like there's anybody else that's going to do it. And then you go at it. And you've done a phenomenal job. So I will say, I mean, you'd have to be like living under a rock right now to not see everyone using the white strips. And I was actually, I got my teeth professional. I was really white and maybe a decade ago. And the process was awful. I mean, it was pretty painful. It took hours. And then I couldn't eat or drink anything for like a week, which I committed to. I was like, I paid for this. I'm committing to this. Any coloring food. Yeah. And I did it. So recently I was like, I think it's time for me to do a little refresh. So this was the perfect time for I was actually debating going back into having it professionally done. But I started using the white strips and they are phenomenal. Like I cannot believe how different my teeth look even after using them one time. So I'm curious, like, what is the cadence someone should be using them? Should you do like the 14 days and then you're good for a while or like, how can you, how can you maintain it? And how are they so how do they less sensitive than other products? Right. So I'm going to first start with that question. So we don't have any peroxide. So number one, the thing that causes you to have sensitivity is the peroxide. It's an oxidizing agent which breaks down the enamel and penetrates the enamel. And this breakdown it also causes a nerve sensitivity. That hurts. That hurts. Yeah, it's like zinging electric shock, things like that. And because it opens it up is also the reason why you cannot be eating or drinking anything coloring for, you know, 48 hours to five days, seven days, whatever it is. So instead of using peroxide, again, so cosmetic dentists Beverly Hills, most demanding patients in the world. I've got it. And they have sensitivity. They can't even get their teeth white and you have to find a way to white and white teeth. You got to find a way. So again, under that pressure, I came up with a formula, which is the Dead Sea Sauties in everything that we do. But coconut oil, sage oil, lemon peel oil. And we play there on with the percentages to a degree that it became a product that can whiteen your teeth without damaging your enamel in any way, even temporarily. And that's why there is no sensitivity. It's a bunch of oils that are there sitting up. And it's a Hudgy White and your teeth with these oils, oil particles break up, stain, just like soap. Soap, you have staining on your hand. You wash your hand with the soap, it goes away because the soap molecules come and break down this thing. And that's what is doing on the surface level. That's why there's no damage. And that's why there's a whitening effect that's happening. So that's the first part about it. The second part about it is that how often should you use it? Best results we have gotten is 14 days in a row. It's the best results. In a row, okay. In a row, because you can use it in a row, and if you can use it in a row, but the 14 days is the best, you get the best result. And the research shows that 14 days in a row is the best result. Little bit less best results is seven days in a row. So seven days in a row still gives you 90% of the whitening that we're looking for. Okay. Then the next question, which is again, I need to discuss this is because why are teeth getting so stained? So again, I've been around for 38 years. Do you know the kind of whitening I started with? Actually, I became a dentist 38 years ago, but I was in dental school before that. So the whitening I did 40 years ago in dental school was putting acid on the teeth and taking a layer of the enamel off. That was the whiteening. That was so bad for your teeth. That was the whitening that people were coming in to do. We had to cover their face because they had to be a light in front of them. If you didn't cover their face, their face would get sunburn. We had to cover the lips so that they would know the lips wouldn't become so chapped because of the light. We would have to cover the gums, otherwise they would burn. So this is the whiteening and then the sensitivity would last six months. This zinging would be six months. That's how we used to do whitening. And we've come a long way with the process. Yeah, that's a long way. I'm curious. You mentioned you get the best results in those 14 days, but if you want to maintain those results, that's the reason why I'm at what should I be doing? Okay, that's the key. So now I got to ask you some questions. Yeah. Do you drink coffee and tea? No. No coffee and tea. Red wine. Occasionally, but not often. Not often. Okay. Blueberry, blackberry. Occasionally, not often. What would you say that's something that is coloring, has coloring? Is there a drink, smoothies, either soy sauce, barbecue sauce? Which one? What would you say it would be the coloring things? I wouldn't say everything is all the time, but there's definitely a little bit of that every day. And in some way, from a salad dressing to, you know, I don't know, some sort of drink occasionally. Yeah. I mean, I don't, it's not like a daily activity, I would say, especially with the coffee or the red wine, but it's definitely enough on a weekly basis that it probably would have some sort of green tea herbal tea, any of those? I drink ginger tea every night, but some sort of tea. Yeah. So the herbal tea makes your tea great. Great. Yeah. There's a grain effect due to the herbal tea. So this is the other thing that's happened because of health reasons, people have blueberries more, blackberries because of the antioxidants, people have herbal teas which are much better for you. And then they have staining effects as well. So and then red wine also, you know, people are drinking more red wine than ever, mischmexer tea's great. So blueberry, blackberry, herbal tea, red wine makes your tea's great. It looks, gives you an aged look because of the grain that's gone. Great. Does it make a difference if you brush your teeth right after or is that sort of a myth? Some, yes, some, yes. No. So the best way to maintain then would be two, seven days in a row, but use them a toothpaste, the whitening toothpaste that we have. Okay. Use the mouthwash. The mouthwash is key in the sense that your teeth make up 24% of your entire mouth. The rest of your mouth, everything that's going on in your mouth, your cheeks, your tongue, underneath your tongue, your roof of your mouth. There's also other places that things are going on. Use the mouthwash. Use the toothpaste twice a day in the morning at night. For you, that would be the best way to maintain the whiteness if you do seven days in a row. And then after that, you can do the whitening straight. trips one time a week. That would be good. And you are an exception. No, you cannot. You overdo it. No. No. And if there is any time that you feel like there's something sensitivity going on, you just stop. And there shouldn't be any sensitive, but you stop it. Yeah. But you are an exception. I have to tell you because finding somebody who doesn't drink tea or coffee, I know people always are like, you're a psychopath. Have you done? Yeah, it's exceptional. It's exceptional. So for those people that drink like red wine and things. So again, a lot of my patients used to drink red wine. And there was no way of getting around the staining of the red wine because you can't use a straw. You can't do this. You can't do that. So I created a dual action whitening pen. I don't know if you know about the whitening pen or not. But the whitening pen is this. If you want it as a standard repellent, you put it on two coats, you wait 60 seconds, then you can drink whatever you want. Oh wow. I didn't realize that. Coffee. Your herbal tea, whatever. So everyone in Beverly Hills is whipping out their pen. Their pen. They put it. They're always carried in their money to see. That would be a good commercial. That would be hysterical whipping out the pen. I mean, if it really works, I'll be whipping out my pen. I don't care. Anybody. Right. So that's one way. That's one way. And the other way, if you leave it on for 30 minutes, it works as if you were wearing the whitening strips as well. Wow. So it whitens your teeth. So you can use it either way. And the pen sometimes is easier to add the strips. But some people just love the strips. Yeah. I love the strips so far. But you know, I kind of fell off the wagon. I was away last week. And I feel like that threw my my perfect cadence of getting those 14 days in. So I got to I got to step it. Step it back up. I'm I mean, I could talk to you for hours, but I'm curious touching on the brand like as it's grown and as it's scaled, like, did you expect it to grow well beyond just like your practice and like how large it is. No, it's it's become a amazing phenomenon. Everywhere I go, people tell me that I love your strips. I love your two space. I love your mouthwash. I have never thought about it that way. I never thought that it would be this big. I never thought there would be so much interest in it. But at the same time, I also knew this product that I'm creating will be the future of oral care. Future of oral care. That means that creating something that doesn't kill bacteria protects your microbiome is in amylsafe. It widens without the peroxide. And all of these things has to be part of what we're doing because I saw it with skincare and got health. That's the only reason I'm saying. Be I saw what happened. The evolution and revolution that happened in skincare. It has to happen with the oral care. Yeah. These products were desperately needed. It was definitely a category that was right for disruption and you're your perfect person to do it. I'm curious like you are still practicing dentistry. Correct. Very little bit. I was going to say how are you managing the brand and you know, still working as a dentist and sort of how do you best allocate your time? So the best way is my daughter is becoming a dentist. There you go. Get the family involved. Get the family involved in the business. That's awesome. More and more of my time is being spent on research and looking at different ways of truly giving what people would really need. That would be healthy for them. I continue my research in terms of oral health, whole body health and talking about how does inflammation stress lack of sleep? All of those things hurt. Also, what's happening in terms of the inflammation in the mouth can create chronic inflammation in your body. What's happening? If there's you have inflammation in your mouth, you can have chronic inflammation in your body as a result of your mouth. These are the things I continue research and talk about in different podcasts, different writings, different books that I published. We talked about anti-aging dentistry. My latest book is called The Toxic Overload, which talks about the pesticides and everything in the food. I had written another book called The Hidden Academics, which talks about all of the different things that we're doing with the blueberry, blackberry that's causing us to use more whitening products that has peroxide that causes a lot of sensitivity in the mouth. But also, I talk a lot about dry mouth. This is the recent surge in dry mouth that I saw in my practice is unbelievable. That's coming again from allergies, coming from mouth breathing, coming from deviated septem, but more importantly, coming from medications people are taking and it's causing the dry mouth and dry mouth causes rampant decay that you cannot control. I have had so many patients that are losing their teeth or they constantly getting cavities due to dry mouth because they're taking anti-exhiding medication on a daily basis that nobody told them. Anti-depressants, even if you take Tylenol every day, if you need to take Advil every day. There's 450 different medical products, pills that have a dry mouth as a symptom, as a side effect that has to be explained to patients. Otherwise, they're going to be dealing with this. People have great or hygiene habits yet they get cavities. Looking to dry mouth. Are you a big fan of mouth taping? I have become. That would be a good product for you actually. That's very aligned. So, mouth taping, I don't have flaws, we don't have mouth tapes. We are working on a mouth tape. We've been working on it for three years. If I come up with anything, it has to be revolution. If there is something on the market that is already does it, then there's no need for it. But mouth tape mainly because those people that are mouth speeders, I have seen that if they wear a mouth tape helps them with nose breathing. But if they have deviated septum, it would be very difficult. So, definitely get rid of these issues. But I am in favor of mouth tips. I want to touch on marketing. Obviously, this conversation, we've touched on the brand, but I feel like there's so much to talk about and so much in your research and your analysis. But I'm curious if you found marketing to be a bit challenging for you, just sort of breaking it down for the consumer, quickly and in a digestible way, like how you approach marketing, having so many different touch points that you can communicate. Marketing has always been a challenge. Especially when you're creating something, people don't know what oral microbiome is. They don't know what it does. People have been using the same products that their parents have used for years. It's very difficult to change their mindset as to say why is this bad. But mainly people don't know when you're using some bad product. It takes 20, 30 years for some of the damage to show, to show. And we know examples of the smoking took 30 years for people to understand what's the connection. With asbestos, it took 30 years for people to really get the connection. So, they don't understand that putting this harsh chemicals and toxins in your body was the accumulated effect over 20, 30 years. People that are clenches or grinders, it takes 20 years to see the total damage with their teeth. So, it's very difficult to educate people. It's very expensive. This is why we've become famous for our whitening products, because everybody wants wider teeth. It's not so much that you have to explain, except white and without the sensitivity. And before and afters are very eye-catching. So, our marketing became that mainly because it was very difficult to explain all the other products. We have dry mouth products, sensitivity products, all sorts of other products. But we have concentrated on this because the easiest thing to actually show people and make people understand, because they want Atlantis, the number one thing. But it is always a challenge. It's always a challenge. And I tell you, the biggest disruptor has been TikTok. And I'm going to explain to you why. And they can say, they're versus cavity. I knew you're going to say that. It's not true. It doesn't exist. They can say, "Wide marketers, very good marketers." But they disrupt yourself. But also it builds distrust in the consumer because they've been burned so many times that then they don't believe anything that you're saying even truthfully. So many people say, "Widing without the sensitivity, even though they have peroxide." You have peroxide, you cannot say "Widing without the sensitivity." Only non-paroncic. Do you debunk those brands or do you just focus on your brand and continuing to educate on look out for peroxide? Because it's so hard for the consumers, some of these before and afters whether they're real or not, they look real. So it's hard for people to really differentiate what's real. Do you lean into your medical background and educate? A little bit, but mainly we focus on our brand, but what we're doing and concentrating on what we do. But I really feel bad for the consumer because they are being taken advantage of. There is so much false information that's being put out and it's not being monitored in particular on TikTok. Yeah, TikTok's like the best of just. Yeah, unfortunately. And this is the challenge. The The challenge is how do you overcome all of this? these barriers, you know. And life is a challenge. And that's what I know. There's nothing you do in life that's an easy road. You constantly go at it, you have a conviction, you have a belief, you do things the right way, you continue to be ethical, you continue to educate the best way you can through things like you are doing, which I'm so grateful of. People like you that have podcasts, which allows for a bigger story to be explained. Yeah. That's why I'm not aware of that. It's like, I mean, I just know I talked to you for three hours. I'm trying to condense this into one hour, but it's like, it really needs to be explained and, you know, really broken down every part of it. It's, you know, and people have such low attention spans in the stay and age. It's like trying to make all of this information digestible in like, what to five seconds that you get of people's time is really challenging. That's, it's very challenging. I mean, I did a podcast last week. It was a two and a half hour podcast. Oh, wow. I mean, I can probably talk to you for two and a half hours. I mean, we want to talk about everything. So okay, fine. That would have to be two and a half hours. We talked about everything. I also want to talk about like your strategy, just D to C versus retail. You have such a huge presence on, on Amazon and you've moved into Target and Walmart and it's interesting. I feel like the oral care space. I feel like that's more of a retail product. I feel like if I was in Target, it would be more thinking about my, my oral health, probably then really direct to consumer. So I'm curious how the brand sits and sort of if you focused, if you found you've been more successful, D to C or in retail or how you sort of approach that. So we started D to C to create awareness, right? And getting into the Walmart and the targets and the retail is not easy as supporting these retail or not that easy. So you have to have some level of brand recognition that people would want to go in a shelf that's full of different products, pick your product and look for your product. But again, we have been successful mainly because we have TV advertisement that's going on. Please tell me you do an ad with the pen in a restaurant. Yeah. But you are right. 80% of the oral care products are sold at the retail level and it is very important to concentrate to make sure that there is traction there and you are reaching those types of customers. And we have been successful at that. We have to continue to work at it. And in a landscape with so many different things going on, people being worried about tariffs, people being worried about inflation and they're cutting down on what they buy. How do you overcome all of these challenges and continue to expand your brand? But this, don't you find, okay, I don't maybe safe isn't the right word, but this is a, this is an essential. Do you find, you know, people are cutting their budgets on things that are, I'd say more of a one, but the oral health is really a necessity. Yeah. Or health is necessities. Maybe sometimes people you would think whitening is not a necessity, but what I have seen is people are getting less whitening in a dental office. Yes. Which I just do myself because I didn't need to. Yeah. And they rather go by something that's 30, 40, 50 bucks. Yeah, mostly if it works. Yeah, especially if it works. So I see sometimes in a recessionary environment, people go and get find replacements. So that's always good. But there is impact. There is impact when people are worried and people are not going to store as often. All of those things are impact. Our D2C and Amazon has been very, very successful for many, many years. We are bestseller on our whitening strip on Amazon, which again, this is huge feet when you have multinational, multi-billion dollar company that's the, has been the standard for so many years. So life is a challenge, you know, and you have to really embrace the challenge, not complain too much about it and find ways of overcoming it. Yeah. And I think you are doing a podcast. You are trying to figure out a way to get people to come and talk to things about. And also you're educating people and whatever you're doing, there are challenges within that. And you've found solutions for it. And they continue to be challenges. There is nothing easy. I mean, that's, that's what I would say to everybody. That is, it's wonderful for myself too. I feel like every conversation I learn at least something, if not multiple things. It's like even, you know, just like how your teeth affect your facial shape. I would have never thought of that. But I will say genuinely, the white strips work 10 times better than I would have ever expected. Like I am shocked by even one use, how different my teeth looked. And then, you know, no, no sensitivity at all, which is just incredible. So thank you for making me not sit at the dentist for five hours. Yeah, I'm so glad. But I would tell you beyond the whitening strip, if you use them toothpaste mouthwash, whatever toothpaste, but you can use the whitening toothpaste also for maintenance reason. I don't know how often you get your teeth cleaned, but you're at your every six months. Use that use the product. Use the toothpaste mouthwash for six months. Go and see what your hygienist tells you about your gums, your teeth, the plaque, everything. And you'll be you'll be surprised. Yeah. And then it's like, you know, I obviously you're discussing the recession and I appreciate that conversation and people being more cognizant. But I feel like oral health is like saving you money in the long term. It's like, I've had one cavity my whole life, which is incredible. But I have to maintain that. So it's like investing in your oral care, especially when it's a pretty affordable price point. Obviously, it's a little more premium compared to some products. But I think it's actually going to save you money for sure in the long run. So I think people, you know, sometimes need to think about it's a little bit more expensive for a long term, investing in it gain in your in your health and aesthetically as well. I'm curious. You have a very positive, you know, personality and I love your your fortitude. But I'm curious what's been the biggest challenge for you in building the brand. And if there's anything you would have done differently. So number one challenge was getting a manufacturer to manufacture our products without their preservatives. This this was a biggest challenge. They don't want the liability. They don't want to think. So we had to come up with so many different ways of being able to do this without using use of preservatives and also have a two week shelf life. I mean, two years to year shelf life. That must have been really tough. That was the hardest thing. Yeah. And I put my foot down. I'm not going to be another product. I don't want it. It's impossible for me to do it. And we finally found manufacturers. We find manufacturing techniques that we can use in order to achieve that. That was the hardest thing ever to do. In terms of what I do anything differently, I can't tell you I would do anything differently. I think I would have wished there was a better way that I could communicate this microbiome and destruction of the microbiome easier to the consumer. I wish the consumer was more aware of this. But there is nothing that I could have done in order to get that message across any easier way. There's an evolution that needs to take place. And I have seen that evolution with other such as skin products and gut health products. And people such as yourself talking about it. The evolution will come. But it takes a toll on a company in terms of waiting for that evolution to come. And being the first one that's coming in with products that have no harsh chemicals, in ammo, safe, and all of these things. Being that first company is always the most difficult. But I wouldn't change anything. I love what I've created. I continue to do research. And there's not a day that somebody doesn't say a success story about the products to me. Yeah. Well, today, today, I guess it was me. What advice would you give your younger self? I think the biggest advice is also look at things long-term and not to get bogged down by challenges. It took me a long time to become the person that embraces challenge. Instead of saying, "Oh my God, another, oh my God, I can't believe this is happening to me." I rarely use those type of statements. But I have grown. I have a lot of experience. I have been involved with different companies. And what I have seen that challenges is not unique to one company. It is not unique to one person's life. It is universal. So instead of saying, "Why me? Why?" I would say, "How can I? How?" Is the word? How can I overcome it? And now it has become such an automatic response to how instead of why that has helped me the most. I love that. I needed that today. That is right advice. And it's easier said than done. But I think, especially as you get older, you really have to be able to master that because it's always going to be something. So it's. Yeah. If you know that there's going to be something constantly, no matter what you're doing. If you know that for sure, concentrate on solutions. And we are people that we can overcome adversity. If you look back in our lifetime, there have been many adversities we have overcome. Why can't we overcome this one? We have to have sort of confidence in yourself and confidence in your own ability to figure it out. And if you think that you don't know how research talked to people Dada! are more experienced. I always surround myself with people that are so much more intelligent than I have. I constantly say the same about you. I constantly look for it and mainly because that's how you can find solutions easier. It's because you're surrounded by people that are smart. Don't become intimidated by them, embrace them, have them, learn from them and you continue to learn yourself, continue to grow yourself and expand your life. Life is not about taking vacations, having a good time is what you're contributing to life, are you changing lives. This has been in my model. I want to somehow impact people's life on a daily basis and impact them in a great number. That comes where the greatest joy in life because you're doing something that creates change. Well, you're doing exactly that. For my final question, what's next for yourself and Luminum? So we are doing a lot of research in terms of viruses. Believe it or not, our issue that we see in the future is not so much bacteria. We saw just a little glimpse with coronavirus, but viruses we believe are a bigger problem. And I'm going to tell you exactly why. So a lot of people talk about virus in terms of the experience that they had with corona. Let's just talk about what's going on in the mouth, gum disease. Why does gum disease? It starts, stops, starts, stops, starts, stops, stops. If there is the bacterial infection there all the time, where is the start and stop come from? It cannot be only bacteria. There has to be a viral component that comes in and starts to create more destruction. Now the research that we have done and we're continuing to do, just like I told you, there is a connection between oral health, whole body health. I'm telling you now there is a huge connection between viruses and cancer. Herpes virus, there are many kinds of herpes, but herpes and herpes and herpes. Also the Epstein-Barr virus, cytoomegalus virus, these viruses now we are seeing them to have such impact on your overall health and there are so many of them that are in your mouth. There are so many of them that are in your mouth. So really finding out how to control these viruses is something we are intensely working on and we have done some initial research to can we decrease the viral load in the mouth, especially with the use of our mouthwash. This is what I'm telling you, the mouthwash is a key. You would say that's like your hero product. If someone were to try one product, you'd think the mouthwash on a daily basis is the most important thing. But if you're using a regular toothpaste and then you use our mouthwash, you're defeating the purpose. You have to use the combination. I mean the hero product is our whitening products, the whitening strip is the hero product, but in terms of overall health is the toothpaste mouthwash combination for overall health is the main thing that I will tell you, especially the mouthwash is so key. And then we even did research on five years on electric toothbrushes, electric toothbrushes. If you don't use it properly, you destroy your gums. So we came up with the electric toothbrush. So we came up with an electric toothbrush. The bristle is made out of caster oil, it's very flexible, it's super soft. Even if you're not brushing properly, you're not going to get the gum irritation you normally get. So everything that we do goes so many years of research, goes into every single thing we put out and it has to be something that doesn't exist already. So this is my future is continue to come up with things that doesn't exist that would impact your life. Yeah, I'm excited to see what you have me as a customer for sure. I'm excited to see what else you come up with, but definitely the mouth tape and any other way you can you can help us out. We all appreciate it. Absolutely. For anyone listening who wants to find out more on yourself and the brand, where can I direct them? So luminalhealth.com would give us my background, my information, the research is all on there. And then Amazon Wal-Mart target is where they can also get purchased it and on Amazon they can find so much of the description of the products and on the website as well. But we are in CVS, Walgreens, Whole Foods, Rouths, AirOne, they're all over the place. So there's a lot that they anywhere everywhere they go they can find the products. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. Be sure to leave a review and subscribe to all future episodes for show notes and resources mentioned go to glamangrow.co. This show is produced by Wave Break. If you're an e-commerce marketing leader who wants to take your email and CRM program to the next level schedule a call with me today at wavebreak.co. Thanks so much for listening. This episode is brought to you by Wave Break. With ad costs getting more and more expensive a world class email and SMS program is essential. This is why Wave Break exists where the premiere email and SMS marketing agency that helps brands take their retention programs to the next level. If you want to learn more about partnering with us and how we can help schedule a call with me today at wavebreak.co/call.