003: Why Logistics Is More Than Execution with Priya Anand, Director of Logistics Services

Welcome to N2N Insights, a Jable Procurement and Supply Chain podcast designed to bring together the procurement and supply chain leaders who are working to navigate the ongoing volatile market. N2N Insights will bring you honest takes, market-informed insights, and real stories from people solving these challenges every single day. Welcome back everybody to N2N Insights. I'm so excited to be here with you for another episode. Today we've got Priya, our Global Director of Logistics Services with us. We are going to talk all about the difference between execution and orchestration. We are going to talk about why it's really important to build resilience across the network. We are going to work really hard to keep it practical. We are going to not use any big buzz words or jargon, but really just dive into what that actually looks like in logistics in a market that's so volatile. Priya, thank you so much for being here today. Thanks for having me, Nicole. I kind of just want to kick it off first with you know, talking about when people think about logistics. They do typically think only about the execution parts. And I want to know just briefly, why do you think people misunderstand that part of logistics? Why do people really focus just on execution and getting the product there versus the whole end to end orchestration? Yeah, that's a great question, Nicole, because that is the crux of what we do in logistics, right? A lot of people think of logistics as a pain point, a problem statement that needs to be resolved. So basically they come to us when action is the key. So that's why execution becomes the prime focus. And then it becomes a very tactical decision making at that point of time. What do we do with this problem? How do we act on it? How do we solve it? You know, because there is no time to wait. So that's when it becomes more an execution than a strategy. But if you properly plan it at the beginning of every product, you know, improvement or a product launch, then it becomes a very strategic decision where you connect logistics to not just the problem statement, but to the actual product revenue itself, the entire stream of how things move from point A to point B. So I think that sometimes people mistakenly take logistics as just one part of the entire stream of supply chain, but it actually connects to the entire supply chain stream of operations where it's not just movement of products, but also the thought process, the decision making behind how and when and, you know, basically the action on how to do it. Yep. No, that's that's a really great just overall explanation on why we need to look deeper into logistics because like you stated, it's not just one spot in the supply chain. It's truly end to end. I mean, and that's why we're talking about it today because it really does cover the entire supply chain. So I think that really leads me into something that I think guests would love to hear about, which is your background. I mean, you've you've seen it all you've worked at three PL's you've done pretty much everything. So I love if you could give everybody and give the listeners just a little bit of background into who you are and just really these big changes that you've seen in logistics, not even just over the last couple of years, which have been, you know, quite monumental, but just over the last decade or so. So could you give me a little bit of insight on that? Yeah, without dating too much myself. I've spent more than two decades in logistics. I started as a newbie after my masters in business administration. I started as a newbie into the epimolum group as a management trainee. I've had the pleasure of working in various different geographies into different departments of business units where I have done finance. I've done customer service and operations, strategy sales, inside sales, commercial decision making, trade lane management and so on. And I had the pleasure of working with different cultures, inter, you know, cross functional teams across Asia, Europe and not America. And in Jable, I had the business unit called Logistics as a service where we bring together manufacturing customers of Jable and non manufacturing customers of Jable where they come to us when there is a program launch. We help them define their supply chain strategy and how we can execute logistics for them. We also provide them with an ecosystem of various integration platforms where we can see data and visibility. And also I have a global team that works across Asia, North America and Europe where we work day in and day out with our vendors and customers solving their logistics problems and pain points. So that's what we do and that's what I do in Jable. And you asked a really good question. What has changed in logistics? When I started, it was more manual, a lot of paperwork, a complexity, a lot of manual handovers between different partners. And basically it was a lot of one-to-one functions. So talk with that specific partner in logistics for maybe you want to do a movement, a domestic movement, then there was a specific partner that you would talk to for the domestic movement. Then you switch on and then hand over that portion of the shipment to another partner who would take it overseas, whether it's by air or ocean. Then it's a second partner that's in the chain. And then there was a third partner once it lands in that destination. Then there's a third partner that either trucks it or rails it to the destination. So there were multiple handover points and everything. Can you imagine a time where we had no emails and all that stuff? So practically everything was based on paperwork, complex documentation, knowing the laws of the land, doing the input, export regulations and tariffs and compliance. So it was more skill sets and human skill sets based. That's how it started. But then it gradually morphed to something bigger where we started doing a lot of automatic movements. So why should the paperwork be paperwork? And e in voice, e-beloflating documentation that is seamless. So we started moving towards that. And then there was also visibility needed. The customers, there would be a lot of phone calls. Their customers would ask, where is my shipment? Where is my cargo? When is it going to reach? So every time we would pick up the phone, we would call our partners and ask for information and all those things were done through phones. Then came the beauty of automated systems or websites where we started seeing like, okay, this is where my shipment is. I put my shipment ID and then I can see the tracking of where things are right. And today logistics and supply chain is even bigger. We're broke in the silos. We've broken the hand over points between different, you know, multiple partners. And that's been integrated into an ecosystem of digital platforms where your shipment ID and you, it's like a, it's like a light, you know, you show a torch or a light. And then it shows until the last bit of where the shipment is originated from and where it's landed. So you have multiple technological advances that has been made, which has been very helpful for execution of logistics. And not just that we also have very proactive decision making because right now it's not just execution, but also building the network and the strategy. And there is a lot of advanced technical tools that help you do supply chain network optimization, route management. There is multiple platforms where you can connect these different ecosystems through EDIs and APIs and artificial intelligence. We can keep going on. But there is definitely a lot more advancement that we see in supply chain and logistics than we have seen two decades before. Yeah, no, that was a really, really wonderful thorough explanation because it sounds like, you know, there wasn't only that disconnected point from a tool standpoint, but there was kind of that fragmented visibility, those reactive fixes and really just overall those governance gaps, you know, when you have no visibility, you have one person in one system, one person in another, it makes it truly hard to know what is true. And that kind of leads me into my next question, you know, you stated you're the director of global logistics services at J.B. Well, you lead logistics as a service here. And that's a very, very new concept. And it's a concept that really kind of evolved because of all of this, you know, three PLs are great, but they kind of solve one issue four PLs are great, but they solve another. And I really just kind of want you to go into kind of that difference between three PL four PL and logistics as a service and really just kind of what made you realize we couldn't do things the old way we really needed to move more towards logistics as a service. Yeah, so a lot of people get confused between three PLs and four PLs and five PLs like what exactly do we do a three PL is essentially like you said, Nicole is a specific partner that does execution of that portion of the shipment. So a three PL partner could be a local domestic trucker who just point eight to point B movement. It could be a warehouse provider that you know stores the product does inventory management and also maybe do some value added services like kidding and fulfillment. And then you have these large shipping companies or airline companies that move input and export of products between different countries and different territories right so that's basically a three PL partner. So it's more tactical partner and operational support for moving things from point eight to point B office storage. facilities. So that's basically a 3PL. A 4PL is a little advanced and that. So a 4PL is someone that simplifies the complexity in this network. Because of the multiple partners, the multiple handovers that happens, a lot of shipments are not just moving from point A to point B. To move from point A to point B, you require multiple partners sometimes, a multiple 3PL partners. And it could be complex for an organization to deal with multiple vendor contracts, multiple administration, freight procurement, even managing the day-to-day binkings. That's where a 4PL partner comes in. So it's a single service organization that links all the 3PL partners together and provides an overseeing or a management of the 3PL partners under their service. Okay. So that's what a 4PL does. And usually 4PLs are also technically advanced. They have digital integrations where they're able to provide a good visibility of what's happening underneath their 4PL layer with all the 3PL partners. I would say JBL logistics as a service sometimes acts as a 4PL partner and also as a 5PL partner. And that's a new concept, right? So what's a 5PL? As we all know, JBL is a large manufacturing company, which is backed by supply chain. So we not only produce goods, but we also procure source the components that are involved in the production, but we don't just stop there. We also help our customers realize their revenue by moving their finished goods from the point of production until their delivery. Right? So we become a 5PL essentially by doing logistics as a service. So we are with the customer right from the beginning of sourcing the products or components for production until the final stage where the customers realize their revenue by selling it to their end customers. So we stay with the customer right through the supply chain cycle. That's what a 5PL does. And that's what JBL logistics as a service does. On top of this, we also have advanced tools, which is more like not like a disjointed, fragmented set of tools, but an ecosystem of tools. Right? So that connects all the 4PLs, the 3PLs, in essential that gives us decision making skills in terms of available data that can help us to see what's coming up, you know, what's the volatility in the market? How do we make changes proactively? How do we keep the supply chain moving? And how do we help our customers actually source from the right places, get the production done, and also reach the customers? Right? So it's an entire ecosystem. That's what is being supported by JBL logistics as a service. That was just a really another great explanation because I think, you know, back to what we talked about right at the beginning of the podcast when I introduced you to listeners. We're talking about the difference between execution and orchestration today. And you've got those 3PLs and just like you stated, they're executors. You pick out a pain point in your supply chain and they will get that done for you. But what you're doing is you are overseeing the entire orchestration of said product or said, you know, logistics need that this customer has. And I kind of want to ask you just a quick follow up question, what do you think the biggest misconception is about orchestration in logistics? Orchestration is sometimes taken as a privilege or maybe some customers or some organizations feel that maybe I don't need it. I'm okay handling with 3PL partners. They don't realize the complexity unless something hits. Yeah, unless there's something that goes wrong. Exactly. Exactly. Right. And with the way how the world is today with the geopolitical issues, with the volatility, the supply and demand situation for specific products and components, this is becoming more and more complex. So organizations are now coming to realize that, hey, having a 4PL or a 5PL partner is not just a privilege, but actually is becoming a necessity. So to have my revenue funnel, keep moving, my supply chain has to keep moving. There is no other way I can handle this by just simply getting into multiple 3PL contracts. I need to have this partner that understands my business, understands what goes through in production, what happens during delivery and can support my journey throughout the supply chain. That's where a 4PL or a 5PL partner comes through their support. We can quickly give them decision making data that can help them see, okay, there is going to be an issue in this particular country for this particular product. Maybe we need to look at other options. That's the data and that's the visibility that a partner like Jable logistics as a service can provide. They can also provide execution level support when things go wrong, when things are stuck at a certain place and it doesn't move from there, it's actually money sitting there and gathering dust, right. The products are sitting there gathering dust and you don't realize that revenue, right. So at that point of time, Jable logistics as a service steps in and provides alternate of plans. What else can be done and then we also provide the data, the visibility to see, okay, if we move this slightly, we provide a different solution, we provide a different network of operations. How will that change enable your supply chain? So we are actually moving from using Jable logistics as a service as an execution standpoint to someone that can make those strategic decisions on behalf of the customer and also make the customers feel and look better. That's completely the focus of our service. I really like that going into kind of the next topic that I want to talk about with you, which is just really what does orchestration look like day to day? I kind of want to dig into, we've already touched on a little bit, but like data and decision loops and scenario planning. So my first question about just the orchestration operating model is what sits at the center of orchestration. What is something that a person looking to really move to that more orchestration model should focus on first? I'm a musician on the side. So let me connect that with music. Logistics is music, okay, and supply chain execution is music. Every instrument has its own beauty, right? You hear a cello, you hear a clarinet, you hear a saxophone, a piano, everything sounds so good, right? When it's on its own, you want to bring this together and you want to hear good music. If everybody plays through their own tune, what happens here at Cacophony of Sounds? Yeah, it's not good. It's not sound pleasant to the ears, right? And that's exactly what happens in an orchestration layer. There is an orchestra conductor, okay, which, you know, think of it as a jable logistics as a service, right? Yeah. We connect this beautiful musical instrument, three-peal partners, multiple three-peal partners. We connect them and we provide the data, which is the beautiful musical notes, okay? We provide them with with what needs to be the plan of action and we give them the data and the input of how to move this through one side of the supply chain to the other, right? So that's basically your orchestration layer. So it's nothing but multiple groups of partners with their own systems of tools, which we integrate and provide data and input so it moves seamlessly from point A to point B. Know that I loved that example. I think it's a really great way to paint the picture of what it should truly look like. And you know, it kind of made me think, you've got that orchestrator in the middle kind of bringing those musical notes as you stated. And I love that example. Another follow-up question to that would be, what is something that you should kind of focus on next? Is it that data quality, process standardization, or governance? You know, you've got the person now orchestrating everything. Where do they focus first to make sure they have that, you know, visibility in resilience in such a volatile market? It's a great question. So where do we start, right? I mean, there is already things that are happening and we need to start from somewhere. So what do we do? And I would do I that into two parts, right? Like, if there is a process improvement or some improvement areas needed for something that's already in action, we just right away get in with the customer and talk to them about the problem statement. Okay, you have this already ongoing. What is your pain areas, right? What's your problem statement? And let's define it. So we do a discovery session with our customers. So we manage to extract from their own words. Where do we need to look into? What is the immediate actions that are priorities that you would like us to work on? And also what is your long-term goal? Right? So that's what we discuss. And then we define and customize the solution on the basis of what they need. If visibility is the big driver, then yes, we go and talk about visibility first and we provide them with a set of tools with the data and the visibility. If the problem statement is more about governance, everything is happening, but we just don't have the right control mechanisms. Then we go and talk about governance and then provide them with the SLA's and performance metrics and the data. So let's talk about maybe a problem statement with governance. Everything is going on okay with the three-piel partners, but the customer feels that they don't have any control over the performance management or they don't have any visibility towards what's happening as performance improvement or with specific parameters like lead times, on-time delivery. You know, maybe things are not being executed to the best interest of the customer, right? So in that case, then we work with the customer to provide them the digital tools to enhance performance. We also provide them with the SLAs, the KPIs and the data behind those SLAs and KPIs. So they're able to bring the governance standards back to where they should have been. So that's part of the governance. And there could be another problem statement. It could be financial, right? Maybe everything is going on okay, but they're not seeing or they're not realizing the benefits, the cost benefits of these operations, right? And supply chain can be quite expensive and it could be a make-up break, right? With the final pricing of the product. So we also help them with finding the right portfolio of vendors that can help them drive those cost benefits. Okay. But not, you know, cutting down on the performance standards. Yeah. So that's where an orchestration layer comes in because we try to find the right mix of, you know, picking the points of, are you eliminating financial waste? Are you simplifying the complexity of operations? Are you able to bring in the right governance? And how are you able to manage this with multiple partners in your supply chain? That's where an orchestration layer helps with the right data, visibility, performance standards, governance and financial benefits. I really love that explanation. That was a perfect way to put it and it kind of leads me into again, the next thing, which is, you know, what we've talked a lot about data. We've talked a lot about connecting everything and that's what this orchestration layer really is about. It's about making that connection so there's no gaps. So what do you feel right now that you've, and this can be an example today? What is one decision that you've been able to now make faster because you have that, you know, data connected, you have that visibility? What's something that you can now be like, yep, that's exactly what I need to do because you have this orchestration layer? Yeah. We are always innovating, right? What could be something that's interesting to the customer? We like to think and we like to put ourselves in our customer's shoes, right? We manufacture for our customers as well. So we definitely want to partner with them in finding out the issues even before they think of them, right? And we always innovate. So this is what sometimes we do. Let's say, for example, take the recent geopolitical issues and we have a customer who is sourcing products from maybe a certain country that's going through an issue with geopolitical issue, right? Right now. And what do we do? We give them various other options, alternatives to the same product and then we say, okay, here are a couple of alternatives or alternative places where you can source this from and these are the various costs associated with it. These are the different transit times, the lead times that come with it. You don't have to make a decision right away, but here you are. There are things that are coming up, which is in the data, the intelligence that we gather on the market and the volatility in the market. These could come up in future, but when it comes up, we would like you to have this data and visibility so you are able to make those decisions. So by being proactive and by being able to provide them with those risk assessments and providing them with some models to support how their supply chain network could be altered without causing any disruptions. We actually help them build business resilience. And I think that's a big tool that's very helpful to a lot of our customers. Yep, no, I think that's a really great way to put it. So, you know, kind of taking everything that we've been talking about today, I want to know if there's someone listening right now that wants to move from that reactive execution like we talked about. They only talked to logistics if something's going wrong. You know, that's a lot of what has happened and still does happen. A lot of people really only reach out if something's wrong. Otherwise, they have no idea what's happening. It's just happening, but they could be doing it like you said, faster, more cost effective. They just don't even really realize it. So if you're someone who is listening to this right now and you want to move from that reactive execution to that more layered orchestration, what's just one piece of advice you'd give them? Where do they, where do they even start? Just one piece of advice. I would encourage them to start looking at managed partners who will help them to see better data visibility, always check for the data visibility, what kind of tools and systems and automation that can be provided. How are they able to break down the silos and handover points? So that would be something that I would ask them to take a look at whether they are able to receive this in the current set of operations. Are they able to see financial benefits? I'm not talking about just going out to the market and asking for freight trades and picking up the best rate they have. The cheaper is always not the best alternative. It could work short term, but sometimes I have seen so many organizations that go for the cheaper alternatives, but then finally they end up with less performances. So I would really encourage the customers or any organization today in supply chain to take a look at how their network has been built. Do they have reliable partners? Do they have visibility to what's coming up next? Do they have a potential service standards and SLAs that they need and that they are the ones that they are actually getting it from their partners? Are there multiple scenarios where they are always asked to rush in and support or ask for support? How's the communication with your partners? Do they are able to get advice, consultative approach or is it very commercial and very business oriented and just to the point? So I would encourage looking at logistics as a service rather than just an execution platform. So that's where I would start. I think that's a great starting point. If someone does that, but let's say they still are very into it and we've used this word numerous times in the podcast so far. They're still very into the data. They want to look at the KPIs. What are three to five KPIs that tell you orchestration is truly working? Is it lead time reduction? Is it expediting ratio, forecast accuracy? What are a few KPIs that can tell you the orchestration is truly working? So there's multiple things to this. So there's performance standards, there's financial standards, there's also governance standards. So there's three different things. So when you look at performance standards, are you getting your product on time? It is on time delivery. Do you have the proof that the product has been delivered? There's a proof of delivery. Do you have the visibility to the supply chain? From point A to point B, inventory management, cycle counts, order time, your lead time, your transit time. So there is various performance standards in terms of measurement areas that you can look into. If you look at financial KPIs, then you need to look at what is the cost of me using this service? What are the benefits? Am I seeing a year on your reduction because your supply chains could be costly depending on when and how you source it? Are you doing the right sourcing? Are you doing the right procurement? Are you working with the right partners? How are the asusorials being charged? Are you getting a really basic service or a premium service for the amount of money that you pay? You have to look at cost versus benefits. Correct? That's also financial standards. In terms of governance, are you able to reach out and have a conversation with your partner about process improvements? Is it coming as a push from your side? Or is your partner suggesting like, "Hey, we've been doing it this way, but maybe you could dream benefits by doing it another way?" Is your communication open enough with your partner that they are able to come up with process improvements, governance standards, changes to what they are doing currently? Or they're just simply executing it and just letting you decide, "Okay, I think this is going on like this and I want to change." Right? Those are some of the areas that I would start looking at. Are you comfortable enough discussing this with your partner? Are you comfortable walking into a business review with your partner, not defending or defending that kind of an approach, but basically talking as mutually, "I really want to improve." I really want to give a good performance. I really want to help you manage your cost. Is that the kind of conversation that you're stepping into? Those are some of the KPIs that are more relevant in this time. I wouldn't put down business resilience at all ever. Is your partner being able to support you through thick and thin? During the time of disruption, is your partner still able to help you out with the space, with the lead time, getting your product out in the market, supporting you? So business resilience is your partner, the right partner to support you through volatility, to supply chain disruptions. That's also something that I would keep. These are not specific KPIs, but I would keep this as a statistical decision making tool before you decide on choosing your partner. KPIs are important and numbers are important, but you said sometimes those intangible things, like communication and support during things like COVID, tariffs, geopolitical tension. Those are all things I don't think if we asked someone 60 years ago, which it's crazy. We're recording this and it's been about six years now since COVID. Look at what has happened since COVID. Every single year there is something, and it's really important to have a partner that you can rely on. Someone that's going to be there for you and someone that's going to give you, again, we use this word a lot, but that visibility into how you can actually keep pushing freight forward really at the end of the day. So I really think that's a great piece of advice and it leads me into my final two questions, which are just quick. I want you to do it. just kind of, it's a little bit of a lightning round, just answer it. However, it comes to your brain. What is one metric you think no logistics leader should ever give up? This is something that should always be top of mind. Okay, I'm going to take a pause because that's a really great question. I would say business resilience. Never give up. Never give up on business resilience. It's not simply a KPI anymore. It is what makes businesses stand during whatever, you know, it hits them, right? Well, utility supply chain disruptions. So it's not a KPI, but business resilience is something that you cannot compromise on. Anything that drives business resilience puts the product in front of your customer. Those are the KPI that you want. Is my product moving on time? Is my supply chain reliable? Is my supply chain resilient? These three are the most important things that you should consider before choosing a partner and before working on an execution strategy. Yep, that was great. And my final question. What is one thing logistics leaders should stop doing because it's creating more noise than it's actually proving beneficial? Okay, don't look at logistics as a tactical decision. You know, don't look at logistics as just a pain point that you want it to be resolved. It's a symptom of a larger disease if something's going wrong. So you need to look at your entire supply chain network at your partners and ask for support and ask for help. Previously, many moons back logistics was a pain point, but I think no longer it is the chief supply chain offices today sit at the C suite with, you know, strategic decision making, you know, power use them to your advantage because a good business resilience at moving supply chain helps put your products out in front of the customers compared to products that are not even out in the market, right? So think of logistics as a strategic partner and not as a tactical execution partner. That was great. That's the perfect way to end it, Priya. And I really thank you for your time today. You made this very, very practical and easy to understand. I'm always going to remember the shallow example. And you know, throughout this conversation, I feel like I heard a few key points, which is, you know, connected data, scenario planning. And sometimes that KPIs can't always be so numbers focused, but they need to be a little bit more end to end focused. And I really think that is something that other listeners are going to really appreciate. So thank you so much for taking the time to join me. If any of you listening really enjoyed this podcast, I hope you can share it with a coworker or share it with a friend in that you found it valuable. And otherwise, thanks for tuning in to end-to-end insights. We'll catch you next time. Bye. Thank you. Bye.