Why is supervision important to your coaching practice?

Welcome to the EMCC UK podcast and welcome to this episode where we explore why supervision is so important to your coaching practice. Today our host Sandra Wilson speaks with Joe Birch, an experienced executive and team coach and supervisor. After a long career in board level roles across central and local government and the NHS, Joe has been working as an executive and team coach and supervisor in both public and private sectors since 2012. She has chaired four national charities including the College of Social Work. Joe is a master accredited executive coach with the APECS and as a senior practitioner team coach and supervisor with the EMCC. She trained as a supervisor at Henley Business School and specialises in team coaching supervision. She also serves as the lead EMCC global accreditation assessor for ASIA. Sandra is a semi-retired professional who leads her own company, dedicating her time to meaningful work. An EMCC senior practitioner accredited coach, supervisor, team coach and deputy director of EMCC supervision. In this fascinating conversation Sandra and Joe explore the critical importance of well-being for coaches and supervisors emphasising that practitioners themselves are their most valuable tools. They discuss the necessity of self-care and the crucial role of supervision in maintaining personal and professional effectiveness. Joe also shares how open honest conversations about well-being within supervision help to address challenges that may arise in coaching relationships. Hello and welcome. I'm Sandra Wilson, deputy director for supervision practice at the EMCC. I am an EMCC accredited supervisor, senior coach practitioner and also have my own small practice of supervision and coaching. Mainly focusing on internal coaches and also working with people who are midlife and wanting to make those challenging decisions of whether they stock work or not or just things like that. But what I have got, I've got a wonderful person joining me today. Joe Birch, really lovely lady who's going to be talking with me on why supervision is integral to your coaching and mentoring practice. So Joe, would you want to introduce yourself? I'm so excited to have you here. Sandra, I just love your energy. Sandra, you and I connected on LinkedIn and then we realised that there was something EMCC that we thought we could do and you invited me to do this podcast. Yes, well a long term EMCC member. I'm currently EMCC global supervision award winner, holder. It's a long title but it's a really small group. I think there's only about 14 of us. So I'm immensely honoured. And I'm also a master practitioner with EMCC and I think for me the really important thing about those two things is they're both based on contribution to the profession. And that's really important to me and that's why I'm doing this podcast with you. Well thank you for coming along and thank you for giving up your time. So I know you're extremely busy with all sorts of wonderful things that you're doing in your life and in your practice. So today we're going to be looking at why supervision is integral to your coaching and mentoring practice and that's really understanding the essential role of supervision for your own professional growth and that impact on the client which is really important. So I'll do a brief introduction which is welcome, we're excited to introduce ourselves and share a lively conversation about a topic that has become absolutely essential to coaching and mentoring. And I say mentoring as well because traditionally mentors haven't always had supervision and this is something that we feel should be introduced as well. So in today's fast-moving world more coaches and mentors are discovering that supervision isn't just about taking boxes, it's about how they grow personally and professionally, how they deliver the best outcomes for their clients and make sure also that you're taking care of yourself. So Joe what do you think we mean exactly by supervision in coaching and mentoring? Yes that's a good question. I think in a way I'll just go back one tiny step which is when we when we are in a coaching session or a mentoring session what do people do the listeners afterwards to reflect on that session. So you might I used to run and I loved thinking through my work as I was running. It just gave me some real freedom and the air and just things became clearer. So you might do something like that you might simply pause and reflect on your work. You might write notes, you might draw I love a good mind map so I can do a reflection through a mind map. Sometimes you might consult with friends or colleagues let's say because of the confidentiality. And sometimes I know that if I didn't have supervision one of the things I'd probably do is just forget to reflect and find myself in the next session thinking oh no I meant to look back at that and just just reflect on why I said that particular thing or just want to check in myself about how I contracted with this person. And so there are many ways to reflect on your practice all of which offer something and supervision is just one of those and so it's it's characterized by some really specific things and I think in your title Sandra one of the important things you've put in the title for today is client impact. Absolutely. For me this is the part of the central essence of supervision is that we're serving our work so the work with the client through setting conditions for insights learning personal and professional growth to develop in the practitioner. So the practitioner is coming along to do all of these things because they want to do what they do better. That doesn't mean to say what we're doing is not good it's just there's always a little stretch that we might think I think I could just do something a little better here. Yes yes it's for me it's always as a coach and also as you know we get supervision on our supervision it's me an opportunity to exhale. Come on. I mean all this stuff in my head you know I've done my reflective logs you know I've really thought about you know how I'm impacting my client which may be a coach or maybe an actual coachy and it just gives me a chance to really sit in the fund of somebody else in a really safe confidential space and just say what I think and receive receive really back on what I'm saying and also it helps me that I know about you it also helps me look after myself as well. Yeah I love that first word you said exhale. Absolutely. We work with people who are incredibly busy. Absolutely. And we know that their schedules are sometimes terrifying to be quite honest and the notion of giving yourself a place to exhale is it's counter-intuitive you know by by actually pausing and breathing out and letting go. New things we're opening to new possibilities and if we can do that as practitioners we can help our clients to do that whether they're coaches or mentees or other supervisors. Absolutely. So going back to your top one which was reflective practice. Can you tell me a little bit more about that particularly in terms of supervision because I just look at it as a dedicated time to step back and really think about my practice or I also provide that as a supervisor I just say to my you know coaches you know it's okay you can just relax you can just tell me exactly what's going on for you and we can work together to spot any blind spots or consider new ways of doing things or one of the things I love to do as a supervisor is to get coaches to celebrate what's going well it's not just about problem solving. Yeah do you know let's just take the word I'm just it's just come me as you said it is reflection so we all know about looking in the mirror we do it when usually when we're going out we might do it when we're staying in as well but here's a kind of challenge to stand in the front of the mirror do the exhale that you suggested in Osandra and say you are doing really well today you're doing really well and how difficult or easy that might be to really see ourselves and go you're just doing well and for me that's part of supervision like you say like to go and be seen by another person like in the mirror who can hear they may have to be the person to say to you you're doing really well but you might be able to say it yourself you know what I did that really well yeah particularly to people that are new to coaching have maybe just qualified and started to sort of work with clients I do find that when they do come to supervision they often have that imposter syndrome they often feel like I've done the right thing so I always feel it's really great to celebrate what's going well so at least you know okay I did that well how do I build on that you know it's not always as say about about problem solving and I do feel the reflection keeps us sharp and and prevents us from getting stuck in the rut so it's a kind of a good practice it's sort of building that good practice particularly from mirror coaches and some of the more established coaches that I work with sometimes just want to talk about themselves and how they develop their practice it's not only just about reflecting on clients and what they're doing it's about reflecting on the whole practice how they develop it what route they want to take in the future I think what you're really illuminating their Sandra is that we can't say this is supervision because supervision changes and how we might if we looked at a supervision session with somebody that's a relatively new coach it may look quite different to a supervision session with another supervisor and that's because you know we know ourselves any skill that we learn when we first learn it we are so conscious of the steps and of getting it right and of what do other people do here how can I find myself and so in supervision we can really pour out all of that and explore it and you're right perhaps later on another supervisor because you mentioned supervision of supervision we I would say and I know that my colleagues often say the same is the more experienced the coach the more people use supervision because we start looking at deeper into ethical dilemmas into what really was behind that intervention in a different way because by the time we gain some maturity we've kind of got the skills landed even if we keep learning new ones on the way we're looking at just a different approach to that dialogue absolutely and talking about a group practice which is very much at the core of what supervisors are there to help coaches ensure that their practice is ethical and it's sound and it's also very difficult areas well because you know people bring problems but even for the supervisors themselves they have to think through the ethics on and where the boundaries sit and make sure they're following professional standards set by the EMCC so even though we're supervisors we sometimes get dilemmas ourselves and we have to think about what advice can I give how can I work through this for my client or for myself yeah I spoke to somebody the a few months back at EMCC Global and we had a little kind of serious chuckle if there is such a thing about we often say oh it's an ethical dilemma take it to your supervisor and as you say Sandra we may also not exactly know is there a specific action to take here it's very unlikely that your supervisor will know but what we are it's skilled at part of the training of supervisors is to become skilled at helping practitioners to explore a particular scenario so thinking through feeling through and trying to illuminate things that are out of our awareness when we say oh I thought this was the dilemma but now I look closer there are many other aspects to it so what are the options that we could take here so that we're all exploring the options as a supervisor most supervisors have a lot of experience in coaching not all because supervision is quite a distinct set of skills and so your supervisor may have an opinion may have be able to say from my experience I can see a few things that we haven't included in our discussion and we do want to draw on that expertise of the supervisor so they're not wholly enabling reflection they can be a real person and put in some experience some ideas but still in a way that saying this isn't necessarily right for this situation but let's just look a little closer absolutely and I think what I love about having the supervision community is that supervisors themselves if they get stuck because we aren't dealing with very strange world now where things are really changing quite rapidly and one of the questions I had for my supervisor was particularly around AI where it will actually do a transcription for you is that right or is it not right to use that and you know we both for sitting down thinking that's an interesting question and belonging to supervisor supervision practice it enables us to talk to each other and say all this is a new thing that's come online how do we deal with this so we can have that discussion and then pass that down to our coaches and our mentors as well so I really love the fact that we have a community where like I said ethics are changing all the time because we live in a strange world but we can go to other people to get that information in order to help our client which are this coach or the mentor who then help their clients who they are the wider client base yeah and it sounds like your supervisor was you know brilliant at saying I don't know what the answer is either let's have a look at all the aspects and I think when you you put this series together Sandra if I remember rightly you you wanted this to support people who were were quite new to the notion of supervision and if I didn't know what supervision was I might think wow they're going to help me think through something but I mean I don't know where to start so I wouldn't be any good at this because I don't know how to think and going back to that supervision is always different with every person the supervisor part of supervision training is to attune to themselves on their own purpose but also attune to you what does this unique supervision need from me in our relationship and it may be a conversation but sometimes it's just feeling our way in and realizing oh this is how we're going to do this together here the EMCC UK encourages excellence for coaches mentors and supervisors our professional membership body promotes ethical best practice and champions high standards for everyone working in the field as a member you can enjoy support resources and professional development opportunities to enhance your practice and develop your skills to the highest level find out more on our website at emccuk.org I remember when I was first new to coach in and I had my first supervisor and I was absolutely terrified because the word supervision in my head was really about checking and making sure I was okay and then when I was sitting in front my first supervisor and she was very relaxed and got me really relaxed as well so I'm here to help you know I'm here to help you develop your practice I'm here to help you grow into a great coach that you are already. And just hearing those words really, really helped me in my practice. And just feeling that I had someone there that was looking out for me, you know, what was in my corner, it wasn't about supervision as in you've got it wrong. It was like, supervision in what could be do differently. And here's some books that I can recommend and hear some podcasts that you may want to listen to. So for me, it's about really helping people see that supervision isn't what, what they may have got it in their minds as what for me was very much checks and balances. When it actually became a what I call professional friend. Yeah, it depends what your experience is, isn't it? I think you came, I think you told me before you came from an environment where, um, supervision very much meant that kind of overseeing. And check in and of course we think about things like at school and, you know, other scenarios where supervision is a little daunting. Yes, yes. So I worked as you know, I worked in the police service and in, um, in the cabinet office. And very much if you're given a supervisor, sometimes it meant that your work wasn't up to standard. It was had a completely different connotation to what we call supervision, which is your helping someone, you're actually helping to build their capability, helping to them to grow as coach is really mental as well. I know. And really what you're saying is, you know, it reminds me of when, when sometimes our coaching clients get sent to us, um, for a remedial task, if you like. And my experience is that developing the relationship is, is very, can be an uphill task because somebody is coming with that kind of energy or I've been sent because I've done something wrong or, um, whereas in coaching, we, uh, like to see our practice, there's also similar to supervision is actually getting the best out of somebody's already good practice. Yeah. So it's obviously similar energy. Yes, absolutely. It's about, yeah, looking at what they're doing and how can they do it better, what they're doing really well, you know, really given that positive and constructive feedback. So, um, and also the other thing that leans well into is well being, you know, um, you know, particularly the clients that I have, um, they're working with clients. Um, there are, you know, it's, it's a lot, you know, for them. It's a lot they're taking on and sometimes it could take its, it has an emotional pull on them. And they need supervision sometimes just to have a place where they can talk through it, um, and manage their stress and avoid burnout, um, as well as balancing their own job and their own stuff as well. So I think it's very much about supporting our, our people, um, so that once they support themselves and they can support others. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a really important thing to bring up that, uh, two aspects of it, probably more, but one aspect is, it's highly unlikely that you would go to a supervisor and say, gosh, I'm, I'm really overwhelmed with work and that the supervisor would tell you what to do. I think as you're saying, we go and we're able to say, I'm actually full and overwhelmed and you're supervisors most likely to say, let's have a look at that. Let's have a look at what's happening, what's, what's changed? Um, let's, let's look together like we're tip out, um, a jigsaw between us and we start to look at the pieces and we go, oh, look, there's, there's a collection of things here. Let's have a look at that a little closer. And then the person comes to their own conclusion as to, are they taking on too many clients? Yeah. Oh, usually, usually, usually something becomes obvious and somebody can say, do you know what? Actually, I could let go of that. That would make a huge difference. Um, or I can see that in a week, something's going to change and but when you're in those kind of overwhelmed tunnels, it doesn't seem like anything's ever going to change. Um, but sometimes we pick that up as well from our clients because some of our coaching clients are in enormously stressful situations where a, a hour to reflect with a coach seems like such a, like, would this really, this hour would really help me? Yes, we would say yes. All sorts of things can happen. Same is true of supervision. There's one thing I want to say about wellbeing. It just the last thing to finish that is, um, sometimes we think of wellbeing, I think, has a little bit, um, bottom of the pile, you know, I could do some extra training. I could get another certificate. Um, and a wellbeing, what is it really? Um, but I think that it's really important to see your own wellbeing. As an absolute professional imperative to be fit for your purpose, you as a coach or a supervisor, you are the most precious tool in your toolkit. You make the relationship, everything about you affects your coaching work. So we have to take care of that you because otherwise you can't do your best work. And so it's an essential part of supervision to really take care of yourself and open those conversations with your supervisor and be able to say, you know, I'm pretty good at it usually. And somehow something is not quite working now. Or I've got a long pattern of overworking and I'm just, I'm just replicating what my clients are doing. I mean, it could be anything, but that way of really pricing ourselves as practitioners to go back to the mirror example, to stand in front of the mirror and say, 'God, I am the most precious tool in my toolbox.' Love that. Love that. And just feel into that and go, wow, so how am I really going to take care of myself today? It's funny when you were talking, the thing that came to mind is a singing voice. Um, because I know that singers have to really take care of their voices because their voice is an instrument. And without that, they cannot sing. So they have to rest, they have to make sure they drink the right things, they have to do the exercises. Um, so they can turn up and be the best that they can be. And that image really came to mind when you were talking about, we are the most precious thing in our toolbox. And we must take care of it because as you say, you cannot support clients if you can't even look after yourself. Yeah. And sometimes it's really hard to put ourselves first. Um, coaching is sometimes called one of the help in professions. And so it's in the title. We really like to help people. Now why is that? So it's so hard to help and take care of ourselves, not everybody, of course, but for some of us. It is quite challenging to say, could I look after myself first? And I see you're back to the beginning of why supervision is so important. It's one of the ways in which we can really take care of ourselves. We're walking alongside another practitioner who absolutely wants the best for us, no matter what. Even if we're coming up against a challenge, our supervisors still want the best for us. Absolutely. They do, they do, definitely, definitely. And I think what I mean, I know when I was at in the police service, how I saw supervision is I called it Reparance Care. Oh, that's nice. And I just, I had this picture in my mind, you can tell I'm very much in which sort of person. Of you actually having this big blanket, you wrap yourself up, you keep warm, you feel cozy. And then when you come out of your blanket, after you've had your hot soup or whatever, you're ready to face the world, you know, you're ready to sort of think about yourself and then think about your client. So I do see, well, Julian has been particularly today where a lot of people are very busy. They're doing so many things, they're juggling all the time that they need to really put themselves at the centre of all. And sometimes that may mean not taking on so many clients. Yeah. I think you've really spoken to something in the wrap around care that it doesn't mean it's always comfortable. In fact, yeah, it's, it's seldom comfortable. It, but you know that the person is there with love. I mean, and we say in our training courses engage with love, because I do think our supervisors love us, not in that romantic way, but they want something the best for us. And in wrap around care, sometimes there's some really challenging conversations, and we can do it so much better if somebody is metaphorically sitting with a hot soup in a blanket, and we're saying right now we're gonna talk about your workload, that's what you've brought today, and we're gonna do this in a really loving way, and yet we're going to really face into it, or perhaps it's an ethical dilemma, or some other challenge, complex challenge, but the warmth of that relationship means that we can have some quite challenging conversations. - Absolutely, I love the fact we knew, talked about mind maps, I love mind maps as well, and I have done this work with practitioners, where you map out what you're doing on a day-to-day basis, a week-to-week basis, and they then look at it and think, "Oh my gosh, that's crazy, that's absolutely crazy." And they made the decision themselves as to how they manage their work and their life at the same time, sort of thing. So there's lots there, isn't there? There are even lots. - I think you're right as well, that in our supervision, we can draw on some of the other tools that we've drawn in our other practice. So of course, constellations and working with the system, imagery, drawing, lots of people use writing as a reflective tool that you might do in the session, you might do it before, you might do afterwards. So we can weave in lots of things that we're familiar with, but when we're using them in supervision, there's a particular way we're working with them in the way that you're saying. We're using it so that the supervisory, when it's us, that we come across some insights that were not previously available to us. We didn't already know them. It's a discovery process. And with that comes a bit of a warning, realistically, if we don't know what's coming, we really don't know what's coming. And in that, we don't know what's coming. I can't say it enough times because, of course, what comes is often something very warm and lovely. It could be something that for a moment, knocks us really off center and go, "Wow, I hadn't seen that before. I hadn't seen how I'm not taking care of myself. I hadn't seen how, you know, I got stuck into all of us using the same intervention." And so it can be uncomfortable, but it's within that wraparound care of the supervisor. Yeah, absolutely. And it's also a space in which you can be vulnerable. And I spoke in my last podcast that one of the things that I shared was that when I was supervising my practice of vulnerability aspect, that, you know, I was feeling vulnerable, the client was feeling vulnerable, and their client was feeling vulnerable, and that's okay, you know? You don't have to know everything and do everything perfectly. You know, it's okay because in that vulnerability's power, because you recognize something, so you have to look at it and say, "What is that for me and what is that for my client?" And so forth. So I don't know if there's anything that you've had pointed out to you when you've had supervision of your supervision practice, but you're willing to share. Oh, I don't know about that, but something took me back to you, say, an AI. And I think that is what makes us distinct from AI at the moment, is that we are living, breathing human beings. We feel things. We are very vulnerable and frail. All of us are open to the elements and in lots of relationships, we can be knocked off center, we can feel so many different things. And so we can bring that vulnerability into supervision and we can bring in joy and laughter and. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know all about laughter as well. I mean, I think sometimes we have to laugh just to free ourselves of the constraints, really, that we all have to live with in very society. I think we can do some really deep work through laughter, personally, Sandra. And you asked me about my own supervision. I can't tell you how many times I arrive to supervision with my hands over my eyes, and I don't want to tell you this, because I've gone through an entire lot. I love it. And usually I can end up laughing at myself and think, "Oh, I see now." Because one of the things we can do in supervision is instead of saying, "Oh, this thing is right or wrong." We can ask a question about what happened, what led you to this interaction or intervention? What is the backstory here, either in us as human beings, or in the relationship, or in the system? And so that's a really important part of supervision is we're not focusing in always on these two people in the room. We're looking at everything that impacts how we are with each other in relationships, and particularly in working relationships. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a holistic process. You know, you look at every aspect, as you say, "We look at what's going on in the world," and how that also is impacting people as well. So as we sort of draw down to sort of come into the end of this podcast, we started off for why supervisionists and take us to your coaching and mentoring practice, and understanding the role of supervision for your personal growth and client impact. For me, I've been very, very grateful to have had supervision more or less all through my coaching practice, and I know the difference between, well, I didn't have it, and when I did have it. As I said, for me, it's been about a place to excel, a place where I can be held in a safe, confidential space, where I can get information, where I can talk about my practices, I can talk about myself. And also, as you say, I can have a good laugh as well. Because you do look at yourself and feel really. (laughs) So, sort of, you know, I know the reflective aspect of being phenomenal, as well as the well-being for me, as being integral as well, and looking at ethical practices as well. Now, for you, Joe, what's the sort of key things that you take away from supervision when you have it? As a coach, and as a supervisor? Yeah, someone to walk with me who wants the best for me, no matter what. No matter what I come and say. But these kinds of things, I think Sandra, can seem a little odd when you have, if you haven't had supervision. So, the thing that I want to sort of really end with if we're coming to that end is have a go. Talk to a couple of supervisors. See who seems to resonate, and it might be because you like some similarity, or you might be because you really like the difference between you. But have a go. Don't just give it one session because supervision is a longitudinal relationship. That means that we travel together. So give it, for I'd say six, if you can go for it, have a go with something, and try it, and then you will know more about, oh, this is what works for me. And you can have one to one. You can have group supervision, and you can have peer supervision. And the energy in those spaces is all very different. So if you didn't like group supervision, just go and try one to one, or a peer relationship, and the same with any other things. Have a go. - Okay, that's lovely. That's a good idea. Just have a try. We have, at the EMCC, have some taste of courses, which a group tastes of, is, which are different type of supervision. So obviously, one to one. But it's a sort of hour. You're going to share that space with four other people that also want to taste what supervision is about. And I'd really encourage you to go on the website, and at least book for one or two of them, and see what it feels like for you to be in that supervision space. It's a really great space. You've got other people, you're learning from the other experiences, there's resources, and it's just a great space where you can share some stuff that's going on with you, and also listen to others. And at the end of it, you may decide, "Oh, our group supervision is for me, or you may decide to go individual, or as Joe says, have peer supervision." As an EMCC member, it's usually, they usually recommend, at least one hour of supervision for every 34 hours of practice, with a minimum of four hours spread out over the year. And it's just about keeping yourself supported and thriving. At the end of the podcast, we'll do a short write-up where you can find a supervisor to yourself if that's really want to go and there's a direction that you can search through for a supervisor. And those Joe says, give it a couple or four and see how you get on. Join our taste test to get a chance to taste what groups of physicians like and see what works for you really. But it is about building a relationship and it cannot be done on one session. I think it is a few sessions just to see how it works for you. So Joe, any closing remarks on this one? No, it's a is the way that people can. Oh, I know there's a supervision. There's a new linked in supervision group. What's it called? If you've got any questions that have come up from today, you know, post them, message us or or put the post in this new supervision group that Sandra might put in the in the links after today. And let's get a few people thinking about them, whatever questions you've got. But do do connect with us? I definitely do that and can't say enough. Very happy that Joe is here. She's such a wonderful human being. She's going to be doing some more podcasts on the accreditation process for supervisors. And she's going to be doing a sort of mini series in March as well. But that's more for supervisors to be frank. So Joe, I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy day to spend some time with me today to discuss supervision. And I really hope that everyone has got what they want. As Joe says, any questions, please, please, please, you know, text us email us using the linked in. The opportunity that has been divinate. So Joe, say goodbye to you. Thank you for inviting me. And yes, definitely Joe Cleary and I do it in other podcasts. I am not so hot on the accreditation, but I'm looking at competencies. And Joe is, I'm going to say, knows all about accreditation. And so we'll have some fun too in that podcast. Thank you for listening to this podcast from the EMCCUK. Together our aim is to promote good practice and the expectation of good practice in coaching, mentoring and supervision. To learn more about the EMCCUK and to find out about membership, accreditation, event, CPD opportunities and learning resources, visit emccuk.org. And remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss a future episode. [Music]